PVP Group Sizes

Keiryan

Inig0 wrote: »

Ghost-Shot wrote: »

Inig0 wrote: »

the game tells you when youre about to make a zerg. after 4 is a LARGE GROUP aka ZERG
xD

The term zerg has nothing to do with large group though, the logic is flawed!

To understand the term zerg. One must first define the term zerg. *insert long nonsensical explaination by crown*

Best post here

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5-GTFgf6zuc

Quantum_V

Numbers and skill are inversely proportional. (general statement, keep reading)

When you have 5 destro ults, it doesn't matter what size the group you're fighting against is, no individual player inside that can survive 5 destro ults. Add a negate? Guarantee that effective damage.

Not that all large scale players are bad, some of them are really good.

But when you zerg, all you do is making sure you've got enough damage to make it impossible to others to survive. It's like playing paintball but your opponents have real guns. You're not outplaying nobody, you're not thinking, you're being two-dimensional and literally rely on destro ults and negates to get things done.

You don't have to care about your healing, 'cause there's 4 healers behind you. Resources? Who cares, it's not like somebody else in your group wont cover for it. Zerging is essentially a way to mitiage your lack of skill by having more people to suppling on what you lack.

You got a 15v30? It's probably crap. Nobody can surive 10 destro ults, specially inside a negate. 15v300? same exact thing, no individual player in the 300 man group can surive sitting under 10 destros. Simply not impressive. Nothing to be seen.

Solo and duo play is a different story, 2 ultis will not necessarly - might even say rarely - kill any indivual player (considering your builds are not just glass canons, 'cause hardly that'll be effective in 1vX, 2vX situations). It much more consists in picking your target, having a well rounded build, and know to do essentialy play the game (heal, damage, survive) by yourself or with little to no help.

OBS.: I don't mean to offend anyone here. If you have fun zerging and playing in large groups, by all means do it. Zerging is not necessarily mutually exclusive to being a good player, let alone with having fun. Just, in a general way, avoid saying 'we're better because we...' when you've got 15 players to back you up. Zerging is not, and never will be, a measure of skill.

Quantum_V

IcyDeadPeople wrote: »

Inig0 wrote: »

Ghost-Shot wrote: »

Inig0 wrote: »

the game tells you when youre about to make a zerg. after 4 is a LARGE GROUP aka ZERG
xD

The term zerg has nothing to do with large group though, the logic is flawed!

To understand the term zerg. One must first define the term zerg. *insert long nonsensical explaination by crown*

The currently accepted formula for zerg is the established mathematical axiom (n + 1), also known as Angry Joe's Maximal Zerg Principle, where n is the number of players in your party

This is golden.

IxSTALKERxI

Quantum_V wrote: »

Numbers and skill are inversely proportional. (general statement, keep reading)

When you have 5 destro ults, it doesn't matter what size the group you're fighting against is, no individual player inside that can survive 5 destro ults. Add a negate? Guarantee that effective damage.

Not that all large scale players are bad, some of them are really good.

But when you zerg, all you do is making sure you've got enough damage to make it impossible to others to survive. It's like playing paintball but your opponents have real guns. You're not outplaying nobody, you're not thinking, you're being two-dimensional and literally rely on destro ults and negates to get things done.

You don't have to care about your healing, 'cause there's 4 healers behind you. Resources? Who cares, it's not like somebody else in your group wont cover for it. Zerging is essentially a way to mitiage your lack of skill by having more people to suppling on what you lack.

You got a 15v30? It's probably crap. Nobody can surive 10 destro ults, specially inside a negate. 15v300? same exact thing, no individual player in the 300 man group can surive sitting under 10 destros. Simply not impressive. Nothing to be seen.

Solo and duo play is a different story, 2 ultis will not necessarly - might even say rarely - kill any indivual player (considering your builds are not just glass canons, 'cause hardly that'll be effective in 1vX, 2vX situations). It much more consists in picking your target, having a well rounded build, and know to do essentialy play the game (heal, damage, survive) by yourself or with little to no help.

OBS.: I don't mean to offend anyone here. If you have fun zerging and playing in large groups, by all means do it. Zerging is not necessarily mutually exclusive to being a good player, let alone with having fun. Just, in a general way, avoid saying 'we're better because we...' when you've got 15 players to back you up. Zerging is not, and never will be, a measure of skill.

Lol yeah you're right zerging isn't skillful. But group play can be. At least up to around 10-12. After that it can be a little more forgiving depending on what you're up against.

Also I'm not sure if you understand how healing works. It's possible to outheal 10 destro's with those kind of numbers. Infact that 1 person could stand in not 10, but 100 destro ults and his health bar wouldn't even fluctuate if those 299 players all spammed healing springs on him (and no one else to avoid the healing cap of 6) his health would remain at 100%. Server would probably crash though lol. You'll never see this happen though as zergs that size are generally made up of people running small scale builds who only look after themselves - god forbid anyone play a healer lol, no such thing as a skillful healer.

Vilestride

IxSTALKERxI wrote: »

Quantum_V wrote: »

Numbers and skill are inversely proportional. (general statement, keep reading)

When you have 5 destro ults, it doesn't matter what size the group you're fighting against is, no individual player inside that can survive 5 destro ults. Add a negate? Guarantee that effective damage.

Not that all large scale players are bad, some of them are really good.

But when you zerg, all you do is making sure you've got enough damage to make it impossible to others to survive. It's like playing paintball but your opponents have real guns. You're not outplaying nobody, you're not thinking, you're being two-dimensional and literally rely on destro ults and negates to get things done.

You don't have to care about your healing, 'cause there's 4 healers behind you. Resources? Who cares, it's not like somebody else in your group wont cover for it. Zerging is essentially a way to mitiage your lack of skill by having more people to suppling on what you lack.

You got a 15v30? It's probably crap. Nobody can surive 10 destro ults, specially inside a negate. 15v300? same exact thing, no individual player in the 300 man group can surive sitting under 10 destros. Simply not impressive. Nothing to be seen.

Solo and duo play is a different story, 2 ultis will not necessarly - might even say rarely - kill any indivual player (considering your builds are not just glass canons, 'cause hardly that'll be effective in 1vX, 2vX situations). It much more consists in picking your target, having a well rounded build, and know to do essentialy play the game (heal, damage, survive) by yourself or with little to no help.

OBS.: I don't mean to offend anyone here. If you have fun zerging and playing in large groups, by all means do it. Zerging is not necessarily mutually exclusive to being a good player, let alone with having fun. Just, in a general way, avoid saying 'we're better because we...' when you've got 15 players to back you up. Zerging is not, and never will be, a measure of skill.

Lol yeah you're right zerging isn't skillful. But group play can be. At least up to around 10-12. After that it can be a little more forgiving depending on what you're up against.

Also I'm not sure if you understand how healing works. It's possible to outheal 10 destro's with those kind of numbers. Infact that 1 person could stand in not 10, but 100 destro ults and his health bar wouldn't even fluctuate if those 299 players all spammed healing springs on him (and no one else to avoid the healing cap of 6) his health would remain at 100%. Server would probably crash though lol. You'll never see this happen though as zergs that size are generally made up of people running small scale builds who only look after themselves - god forbid anyone play a healer lol, no such thing as a skillful healer.

I don't think he thought any further than destro ult vs health bar.

I Propose the crazy notion that group play is NO LESS SKILLFUL than solo or (insert number close to 1) man. Kgo.

Sile

This thread is most entertaining reading. I find it a bit sad though, that after almost 3 years of playing together, albeit on different factions, we aren't all BFFs.

As for group sizing, what's said above is true, after a certain point extra members are just overkill. I've personally found that number to be about 14 - you can do usually what you could do with 24, the extra 10 are just redundancy.

Xsorus

Numbers next patch are going to mean a lot more.

All you have to look at is EarthGore set, The more people who have that in your zerg the easier time you'll have in PvP.

Its going to overpower 24 Man zerg groups more then any other set added to this game.

xaraan

Patch after patch zos shows they support numbers over skill, just mindlessly steamrolling stuff down. I have yet to see any huge group not just crumble when they are in smaller numbers vs skilled players. But zos wants the game easily accessible for casual players, so they are going to punish the skilled ones by weighting the game against them as time goes on until the game dies because it's boring.

I'd really like to see a death recap that just says 'trample damage' when you get tagged by 20 players bloodthirsty to feel like they did something by zerging down one or two randoms.

Vilestride

xaraan wrote: »

Patch after patch zos shows they support numbers over skill, just mindlessly steamrolling stuff down. I have yet to see any huge group not just crumble when they are in smaller numbers vs skilled players. But zos wants the game easily accessible for casual players, so they are going to punish the skilled ones by weighting the game against them as time goes on until the game dies because it's boring.

I'd really like to see a death recap that just says 'trample damage' when you get tagged by 20 players bloodthirsty to feel like they did something by zerging down one or two randoms.

I'd like to see a death recap that says "what'd you expect?" as well, for when 1's and 2's (thats you solo players) Initiate engagements with larger groups.

I understand the frustration of having a large group go out of their way to engage you and or your small crew, but equally frustrating is when some rising star 1vXer is biting at your groups ankles while you are trying to engage on the big fish.

I think we would agree in saying that if I am running a group of 12 and I see Bob and Brad over by a log fighting sally and sarah we should be saying hey "we have no business in that" and continue down the road. Agreed? cool. But sally, Sarah, bob and brad should all be saying the same thing. And if they don't well.....what'd you expect?

ZOS_Mika

We have had to remove several more posts due to naming and shaming. Because naming and shaming continues to be an issue in this thread, we are closing it down.