Thoughts on Warden class in PvP?

Beardimus · July 2017

They are mega strong now people have leveled them and built them up. Low level not so much, but they seem strong in small scale / BG etc. Cliff racer spamming

SanTii.92 · July 2017

Beardimus wrote: »

They are mega strong now people have leveled them and built them up. Low level not so much, but they seem strong in small scale / BG etc. Cliff racer spamming

How are you getting spammed on Bg's? Isn't there enough terrain for you to break LoS? Jesus.

SodanTok · July 2017

SanTii.92 wrote: »

Beardimus wrote: »

They are mega strong now people have leveled them and built them up. Low level not so much, but they seem strong in small scale / BG etc. Cliff racer spamming

How are,you getting spammed on Bg's? Isn't there enough terrain for you to break LoS?. Jesus.

People dont want to break LoS. They never had to before because casual dodging took care of everything threatening from range

Same goes for escaping zergs in PVP. A little sprinting and dodge rolling often was enough to escape 40 people and mitigate hundreds of thousand of damage.

Takes-No-Prisoner · July 2017

HeathenDeacon wrote: »

im maining magwarden in pvp, using Jack Daniels build and its the most fun i've had since launch.
I mostly played magplar and magsorc before and i'll never go back.
Versatilly, tankiness, healing, mobility, insane burst damage, OP ult gen... heh, i hope everyone keeps thinking its weak.

I've 2vX'ed with a guy who plays MagWarden.

It's reaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaal fun to play with one in your party. They don't go down easy, and their off healing helps keep me alive. Then yeah, burst heal with Forest when things get dicey.

I love it.

Grampa_Smurf · July 2017

mmmmm Mag Warden there ok.

edit.........I loving it

Cheap to set up and good all round fun to be had, what's not to like.

davey1107 · July 2017

I like my stam Warden in pvp. My top feedback is that Wardens have no "killer app," an ability that gives them a defined, solid, fun role in pvp.

Blades have cloak, making them gankers. That is just an amazing ability considering the mechanics of the game. Sorcs have stacking, lethal ranged dps from hell (#nerfsorcs). Templars have jabs...that's an amazing abikity in pvp too. DKs have their defensive abilities.

I just haven't found anything with Warden that seems entirely distinct and awesome for pvp. I guess cliff racer was supposed to be a killer app, but...meh. It's a nice ability for pvp, but not something that makes me want to play my Warden over all the other characters.

Waffennacht · July 2017

davey1107 wrote: »

I like my stam Warden in pvp. My top feedback is that Wardens have no "killer app," an ability that gives them a defined, solid, fun role in pvp.

Blades have cloak, making them gankers. That is just an amazing ability considering the mechanics of the game. Sorcs have stacking, lethal ranged dps from hell (#nerfsorcs). Templars have jabs...that's an amazing abikity in pvp too. DKs have their defensive abilities.

I just haven't found anything with Warden that seems entirely distinct and awesome for pvp. I guess cliff racer was supposed to be a killer app, but...meh. It's a nice ability for pvp, but not something that makes me want to play my Warden over all the other characters.

I think it's killer "app" as you put it might be the fact the majority of DMG from (magicka) Warden is undodgeable/unreflectable damage.

Racer, Shalk, Force Pulse, SA/DboS, Sleet are all undodgeable/unreflectable

SanTii.92 · July 2017

Waffennacht wrote: »

davey1107 wrote: »

I like my stam Warden in pvp. My top feedback is that Wardens have no "killer app," an ability that gives them a defined, solid, fun role in pvp.

Blades have cloak, making them gankers. That is just an amazing ability considering the mechanics of the game. Sorcs have stacking, lethal ranged dps from hell (#nerfsorcs). Templars have jabs...that's an amazing abikity in pvp too. DKs have their defensive abilities.

I just haven't found anything with Warden that seems entirely distinct and awesome for pvp. I guess cliff racer was supposed to be a killer app, but...meh. It's a nice ability for pvp, but not something that makes me want to play my Warden over all the other characters.

I think it's killer "app" as you put it might be the fact the majority of DMG from (magicka) Warden is undodgeable/unreflectable damage.

Racer, Shalk, Force Pulse, SA/DboS, Sleet are all undodgeable

Force pulse is dodgeable. I just think the most defining skill is the healing ult.

leepalmer95 · July 2017

SanTii.92 wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

davey1107 wrote: »

I like my stam Warden in pvp. My top feedback is that Wardens have no "killer app," an ability that gives them a defined, solid, fun role in pvp.

Blades have cloak, making them gankers. That is just an amazing ability considering the mechanics of the game. Sorcs have stacking, lethal ranged dps from hell (#nerfsorcs). Templars have jabs...that's an amazing abikity in pvp too. DKs have their defensive abilities.

I just haven't found anything with Warden that seems entirely distinct and awesome for pvp. I guess cliff racer was supposed to be a killer app, but...meh. It's a nice ability for pvp, but not something that makes me want to play my Warden over all the other characters.

I think it's killer "app" as you put it might be the fact the majority of DMG from (magicka) Warden is undodgeable/unreflectable damage.

Racer, Shalk, Force Pulse, SA/DboS, Sleet are all undodgeable

Force pulse is dodgeable. I just think the most defining skill is the healing ult.

Most of the skills go through walls as well.

I can cast a bird or two on someone and they can Los and the bird will just go through the wall.

Shalk just goes through the wall anyway.

I 2 hit someone with a back to back 12k pigeon today, fun times.

HiImRex · July 2017

they aite

pretty fun to play, definitely not OP but cliff racer is hard to deal with for builds that rely on dodge rolling for survivability

but this game is pretty rock paper scissors to begin with so there's nothing new about that

SanTii.92 · July 2017

leepalmer95 wrote: »

SanTii.92 wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

davey1107 wrote: »

I like my stam Warden in pvp. My top feedback is that Wardens have no "killer app," an ability that gives them a defined, solid, fun role in pvp.

Blades have cloak, making them gankers. That is just an amazing ability considering the mechanics of the game. Sorcs have stacking, lethal ranged dps from hell (#nerfsorcs). Templars have jabs...that's an amazing abikity in pvp too. DKs have their defensive abilities.

I just haven't found anything with Warden that seems entirely distinct and awesome for pvp. I guess cliff racer was supposed to be a killer app, but...meh. It's a nice ability for pvp, but not something that makes me want to play my Warden over all the other characters.

I think it's killer "app" as you put it might be the fact the majority of DMG from (magicka) Warden is undodgeable/unreflectable damage.

Racer, Shalk, Force Pulse, SA/DboS, Sleet are all undodgeable

Force pulse is dodgeable. I just think the most defining skill is the healing ult.

Most of the skills go through walls as well.

I can cast a bird or two on someone and they can Los and the bird will just go through the wall.

Shalk just goes through the wall anyway.

I 2 hit someone with a back to back 12k pigeon today, fun times.

It's funny how ppl like to complain about the racer, yet they only are about 10% of total dps from most duels.

leepalmer95 · July 2017

SanTii.92 wrote: »

leepalmer95 wrote: »

SanTii.92 wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

davey1107 wrote: »

I like my stam Warden in pvp. My top feedback is that Wardens have no "killer app," an ability that gives them a defined, solid, fun role in pvp.

Blades have cloak, making them gankers. That is just an amazing ability considering the mechanics of the game. Sorcs have stacking, lethal ranged dps from hell (#nerfsorcs). Templars have jabs...that's an amazing abikity in pvp too. DKs have their defensive abilities.

I just haven't found anything with Warden that seems entirely distinct and awesome for pvp. I guess cliff racer was supposed to be a killer app, but...meh. It's a nice ability for pvp, but not something that makes me want to play my Warden over all the other characters.

I think it's killer "app" as you put it might be the fact the majority of DMG from (magicka) Warden is undodgeable/unreflectable damage.

Racer, Shalk, Force Pulse, SA/DboS, Sleet are all undodgeable

Force pulse is dodgeable. I just think the most defining skill is the healing ult.

Most of the skills go through walls as well.

I can cast a bird or two on someone and they can Los and the bird will just go through the wall.

Shalk just goes through the wall anyway.

I 2 hit someone with a back to back 12k pigeon today, fun times.

It's funny how ppl like to complain about the racer, yet they only are about 10% of total dps from most duels.

'Duels'

Don't don't mean anything, can you not use them for a benchmark for balance?

10% dps though in duels huh, do you even use the skill or nah?

SanTii.92 · July 2017

leepalmer95 wrote: »

SanTii.92 wrote: »

leepalmer95 wrote: »

SanTii.92 wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

davey1107 wrote: »

I like my stam Warden in pvp. My top feedback is that Wardens have no "killer app," an ability that gives them a defined, solid, fun role in pvp.

Blades have cloak, making them gankers. That is just an amazing ability considering the mechanics of the game. Sorcs have stacking, lethal ranged dps from hell (#nerfsorcs). Templars have jabs...that's an amazing abikity in pvp too. DKs have their defensive abilities.

I just haven't found anything with Warden that seems entirely distinct and awesome for pvp. I guess cliff racer was supposed to be a killer app, but...meh. It's a nice ability for pvp, but not something that makes me want to play my Warden over all the other characters.

I think it's killer "app" as you put it might be the fact the majority of DMG from (magicka) Warden is undodgeable/unreflectable damage.

Racer, Shalk, Force Pulse, SA/DboS, Sleet are all undodgeable

Force pulse is dodgeable. I just think the most defining skill is the healing ult.

Most of the skills go through walls as well.

I can cast a bird or two on someone and they can Los and the bird will just go through the wall.

Shalk just goes through the wall anyway.

I 2 hit someone with a back to back 12k pigeon today, fun times.

It's funny how ppl like to complain about the racer, yet they only are about 10% of total dps from most duels.

'Duels'

Don't don't mean anything, can you not use them for a benchmark for balance?

10% dps though in duels huh, do you even use the skill or nah?

Well, it's definetly a better one than from getting outnumbered, that's for sure.

Ya i do, just don't cast them that much cause you just lose preassure if you, unless you are going for the execute.

I'll try to gather a couple parses so you can see.

leepalmer95 · July 2017

SanTii.92 wrote: »

leepalmer95 wrote: »

SanTii.92 wrote: »

leepalmer95 wrote: »

SanTii.92 wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

davey1107 wrote: »

I like my stam Warden in pvp. My top feedback is that Wardens have no "killer app," an ability that gives them a defined, solid, fun role in pvp.

Blades have cloak, making them gankers. That is just an amazing ability considering the mechanics of the game. Sorcs have stacking, lethal ranged dps from hell (#nerfsorcs). Templars have jabs...that's an amazing abikity in pvp too. DKs have their defensive abilities.

I just haven't found anything with Warden that seems entirely distinct and awesome for pvp. I guess cliff racer was supposed to be a killer app, but...meh. It's a nice ability for pvp, but not something that makes me want to play my Warden over all the other characters.

I think it's killer "app" as you put it might be the fact the majority of DMG from (magicka) Warden is undodgeable/unreflectable damage.

Racer, Shalk, Force Pulse, SA/DboS, Sleet are all undodgeable

Force pulse is dodgeable. I just think the most defining skill is the healing ult.

Most of the skills go through walls as well.

I can cast a bird or two on someone and they can Los and the bird will just go through the wall.

Shalk just goes through the wall anyway.

I 2 hit someone with a back to back 12k pigeon today, fun times.

It's funny how ppl like to complain about the racer, yet they only are about 10% of total dps from most duels.

'Duels'

Don't don't mean anything, can you not use them for a benchmark for balance?

10% dps though in duels huh, do you even use the skill or nah?

Well, it's definetly a better one than from getting outnumbered, that's for sure.

Ya i do, just don't cast them that much cause you just lose preassure if you, unless you are going for the execute.

I'll try to gather a couple parses so you can see.

Pls don't show me duel parses... they literally mean nothing. Dueling isn't balanced and pvp isn't based around dueling at all.

What do you mean 'people' like me? E.g. someone whose has been playing a mag warden in pvp for 4-5 days now and admits undodgable pigeon is broken af?

I've 2 hit particular squishy targets and 3 hit well known pvp'ers with impen. There was literally nothing they can do about it. 13.5k pigeons tooltips + 15% from 15m away then add the fact i have like 82% bonus crit dmg.

What can they do? Because blocking doesn't seem to be doing much.

Pigeon spam is soo much pressure that you can't really recovery from open world.

Pop an imov/detect pot on a stam nb and its game over.

SanTii.92 · July 2017

leepalmer95 wrote: »

SanTii.92 wrote: »

leepalmer95 wrote: »

SanTii.92 wrote: »

leepalmer95 wrote: »

SanTii.92 wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

davey1107 wrote: »

I like my stam Warden in pvp. My top feedback is that Wardens have no "killer app," an ability that gives them a defined, solid, fun role in pvp.

Blades have cloak, making them gankers. That is just an amazing ability considering the mechanics of the game. Sorcs have stacking, lethal ranged dps from hell (#nerfsorcs). Templars have jabs...that's an amazing abikity in pvp too. DKs have their defensive abilities.

I just haven't found anything with Warden that seems entirely distinct and awesome for pvp. I guess cliff racer was supposed to be a killer app, but...meh. It's a nice ability for pvp, but not something that makes me want to play my Warden over all the other characters.

I think it's killer "app" as you put it might be the fact the majority of DMG from (magicka) Warden is undodgeable/unreflectable damage.

Racer, Shalk, Force Pulse, SA/DboS, Sleet are all undodgeable

Force pulse is dodgeable. I just think the most defining skill is the healing ult.

Most of the skills go through walls as well.

I can cast a bird or two on someone and they can Los and the bird will just go through the wall.

Shalk just goes through the wall anyway.

I 2 hit someone with a back to back 12k pigeon today, fun times.

It's funny how ppl like to complain about the racer, yet they only are about 10% of total dps from most duels.

'Duels'

Don't don't mean anything, can you not use them for a benchmark for balance?

10% dps though in duels huh, do you even use the skill or nah?

Well, it's definetly a better one than from getting outnumbered, that's for sure.

Ya i do, just don't cast them that much cause you just lose preassure if you, unless you are going for the execute.

I'll try to gather a couple parses so you can see.

Pls don't show me duel parses... they literally mean nothing. Dueling isn't balanced and pvp isn't based around dueling at all.

What do you mean 'people' like me? E.g. someone whose has been playing a mag warden in pvp for 4-5 days now and admits undodgable pigeon is broken af?

I've 2 hit particular squishy targets and 3 hit well known pvp'ers with impen. There was literally nothing they can do about it. 13.5k pigeons tooltips + 15% from 15m away then add the fact i have like 82% bonus crit dmg.

What can they do? Because blocking doesn't seem to be doing much.

Pigeon spam is soo much pressure that you can't really recovery from open world.

Pop an imov/detect pot on a stam nb and its game over.

I don't quite understand how you think balancing around 1v1s is not possible, yet you can call racer Op cause 'there is literally nothing to do about it' when outnumbered. Guess what, there is plenty of stuff at the same condition, truth is racers are not Op at all on 1v1s nor Group v Group

leepalmer95 · July 2017

SanTii.92 wrote: »

leepalmer95 wrote: »

SanTii.92 wrote: »

leepalmer95 wrote: »

SanTii.92 wrote: »

leepalmer95 wrote: »

SanTii.92 wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

davey1107 wrote: »

I like my stam Warden in pvp. My top feedback is that Wardens have no "killer app," an ability that gives them a defined, solid, fun role in pvp.

Blades have cloak, making them gankers. That is just an amazing ability considering the mechanics of the game. Sorcs have stacking, lethal ranged dps from hell (#nerfsorcs). Templars have jabs...that's an amazing abikity in pvp too. DKs have their defensive abilities.

I just haven't found anything with Warden that seems entirely distinct and awesome for pvp. I guess cliff racer was supposed to be a killer app, but...meh. It's a nice ability for pvp, but not something that makes me want to play my Warden over all the other characters.

I think it's killer "app" as you put it might be the fact the majority of DMG from (magicka) Warden is undodgeable/unreflectable damage.

Racer, Shalk, Force Pulse, SA/DboS, Sleet are all undodgeable

Force pulse is dodgeable. I just think the most defining skill is the healing ult.

Most of the skills go through walls as well.

I can cast a bird or two on someone and they can Los and the bird will just go through the wall.

Shalk just goes through the wall anyway.

I 2 hit someone with a back to back 12k pigeon today, fun times.

It's funny how ppl like to complain about the racer, yet they only are about 10% of total dps from most duels.

'Duels'

Don't don't mean anything, can you not use them for a benchmark for balance?

10% dps though in duels huh, do you even use the skill or nah?

Well, it's definetly a better one than from getting outnumbered, that's for sure.

Ya i do, just don't cast them that much cause you just lose preassure if you, unless you are going for the execute.

I'll try to gather a couple parses so you can see.

Pls don't show me duel parses... they literally mean nothing. Dueling isn't balanced and pvp isn't based around dueling at all.

What do you mean 'people' like me? E.g. someone whose has been playing a mag warden in pvp for 4-5 days now and admits undodgable pigeon is broken af?

I've 2 hit particular squishy targets and 3 hit well known pvp'ers with impen. There was literally nothing they can do about it. 13.5k pigeons tooltips + 15% from 15m away then add the fact i have like 82% bonus crit dmg.

What can they do? Because blocking doesn't seem to be doing much.

Pigeon spam is so much pressure that you can't really recovery from open world.

Pop an imov/detect pot on a stam nb and its game over.

I don't quite understand how you think balancing around 1v1s is not possible, yet you can call racer Op cause 'there is literally nothing to do about it' when outnumbered. Guess what, there is plenty of stuff at the same condition, truth is racers are not Op at all on 1v1s nor Group v Group

Lmao its very strong in a group, try it sometime instead of dueling all the time.

The game isn't based around 1v1 combat, you only get rewarded for killing people in cyrodiil and bgs which aren't 1v1 environments.

Dueling overall isn't balanced at all either. Dueling setups and proper open world or bgs setups are completely different.

Its not even just outnumbered, its very strong in a group vs group. The damage is just insane plus if anything is rolling to heal and avoid more damage it received then if a warden is targeting that players they will die.

I've killed plenty of people who last patch would of survived the situation. Not just stamina characters eithers, mag sorcs with high stam regen, magplars etc... who all did a dodge roll to get some line of sight, get out of a root, let thing slike streak increase go away etc... they all died to my pigeon hitting them for like 9-10k when they did a defensive action.

SanTii.92 · July 2017

leepalmer95 wrote: »

SanTii.92 wrote: »

leepalmer95 wrote: »

SanTii.92 wrote: »

leepalmer95 wrote: »

SanTii.92 wrote: »

leepalmer95 wrote: »

SanTii.92 wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

davey1107 wrote: »

I like my stam Warden in pvp. My top feedback is that Wardens have no "killer app," an ability that gives them a defined, solid, fun role in pvp.

Blades have cloak, making them gankers. That is just an amazing ability considering the mechanics of the game. Sorcs have stacking, lethal ranged dps from hell (#nerfsorcs). Templars have jabs...that's an amazing abikity in pvp too. DKs have their defensive abilities.

I just haven't found anything with Warden that seems entirely distinct and awesome for pvp. I guess cliff racer was supposed to be a killer app, but...meh. It's a nice ability for pvp, but not something that makes me want to play my Warden over all the other characters.

I think it's killer "app" as you put it might be the fact the majority of DMG from (magicka) Warden is undodgeable/unreflectable damage.

Racer, Shalk, Force Pulse, SA/DboS, Sleet are all undodgeable

Force pulse is dodgeable. I just think the most defining skill is the healing ult.

Most of the skills go through walls as well.

I can cast a bird or two on someone and they can Los and the bird will just go through the wall.

Shalk just goes through the wall anyway.

I 2 hit someone with a back to back 12k pigeon today, fun times.

It's funny how ppl like to complain about the racer, yet they only are about 10% of total dps from most duels.

'Duels'

Don't don't mean anything, can you not use them for a benchmark for balance?

10% dps though in duels huh, do you even use the skill or nah?

Well, it's definetly a better one than from getting outnumbered, that's for sure.

Ya i do, just don't cast them that much cause you just lose preassure if you, unless you are going for the execute.

I'll try to gather a couple parses so you can see.

Pls don't show me duel parses... they literally mean nothing. Dueling isn't balanced and pvp isn't based around dueling at all.

What do you mean 'people' like me? E.g. someone whose has been playing a mag warden in pvp for 4-5 days now and admits undodgable pigeon is broken af?

I've 2 hit particular squishy targets and 3 hit well known pvp'ers with impen. There was literally nothing they can do about it. 13.5k pigeons tooltips + 15% from 15m away then add the fact i have like 82% bonus crit dmg.

What can they do? Because blocking doesn't seem to be doing much.

Pigeon spam is so much pressure that you can't really recovery from open world.

Pop an imov/detect pot on a stam nb and its game over.

I don't quite understand how you think balancing around 1v1s is not possible, yet you can call racer Op cause 'there is literally nothing to do about it' when outnumbered. Guess what, there is plenty of stuff at the same condition, truth is racers are not Op at all on 1v1s nor Group v Group

Lmao its very strong in a group, try it sometime instead of dueling all the time.

The game isn't based around 1v1 combat, you only get rewarded for killing people in cyrodiil and bgs which aren't 1v1 environments.

Dueling overall isn't balanced at all either. Dueling setups and proper open world or bgs setups are completely different.

Its not even just outnumbered, its very strong in a group vs group. The damage is just insane plus if anything is rolling to heal and avoid more damage it received then if a warden is targeting that players they will die.

I've killed plenty of people who last patch would of survived the situation. Not just stamina characters eithers, mag sorcs with high stam regen, magplars etc... who all did a dodge roll to get some line of sight, get out of a root, let thing slike streak increase go away etc... they all died to my pigeon hitting them for like 9-10k when they did a defensive action.

Very strong =/= Op. Again, there is plenty of stuff on the same category, you are just biased cause it's a mild counter to your build.

Look, i'm not opposed to some changes to the skill, but you if you want it to be dodgeable you got to offer some trade off. And you can't just make it instant cause the whole point of the class is to delay the dps to setup burst, think about something else.

Waffennacht · July 2017

leepalmer95 wrote: »

SanTii.92 wrote: »

leepalmer95 wrote: »

SanTii.92 wrote: »

leepalmer95 wrote: »

SanTii.92 wrote: »

leepalmer95 wrote: »

SanTii.92 wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

davey1107 wrote: »

I like my stam Warden in pvp. My top feedback is that Wardens have no "killer app," an ability that gives them a defined, solid, fun role in pvp.

Blades have cloak, making them gankers. That is just an amazing ability considering the mechanics of the game. Sorcs have stacking, lethal ranged dps from hell (#nerfsorcs). Templars have jabs...that's an amazing abikity in pvp too. DKs have their defensive abilities.

I just haven't found anything with Warden that seems entirely distinct and awesome for pvp. I guess cliff racer was supposed to be a killer app, but...meh. It's a nice ability for pvp, but not something that makes me want to play my Warden over all the other characters.

I think it's killer "app" as you put it might be the fact the majority of DMG from (magicka) Warden is undodgeable/unreflectable damage.

Racer, Shalk, Force Pulse, SA/DboS, Sleet are all undodgeable

Force pulse is dodgeable. I just think the most defining skill is the healing ult.

Most of the skills go through walls as well.

I can cast a bird or two on someone and they can Los and the bird will just go through the wall.

Shalk just goes through the wall anyway.

I 2 hit someone with a back to back 12k pigeon today, fun times.

It's funny how ppl like to complain about the racer, yet they only are about 10% of total dps from most duels.

'Duels'

Don't don't mean anything, can you not use them for a benchmark for balance?

10% dps though in duels huh, do you even use the skill or nah?

Well, it's definetly a better one than from getting outnumbered, that's for sure.

Ya i do, just don't cast them that much cause you just lose preassure if you, unless you are going for the execute.

I'll try to gather a couple parses so you can see.

Pls don't show me duel parses... they literally mean nothing. Dueling isn't balanced and pvp isn't based around dueling at all.

What do you mean 'people' like me? E.g. someone whose has been playing a mag warden in pvp for 4-5 days now and admits undodgable pigeon is broken af?

I've 2 hit particular squishy targets and 3 hit well known pvp'ers with impen. There was literally nothing they can do about it. 13.5k pigeons tooltips + 15% from 15m away then add the fact i have like 82% bonus crit dmg.

What can they do? Because blocking doesn't seem to be doing much.

Pigeon spam is so much pressure that you can't really recovery from open world.

Pop an imov/detect pot on a stam nb and its game over.

I don't quite understand how you think balancing around 1v1s is not possible, yet you can call racer Op cause 'there is literally nothing to do about it' when outnumbered. Guess what, there is plenty of stuff at the same condition, truth is racers are not Op at all on 1v1s nor Group v Group

Lmao its very strong in a group, try it sometime instead of dueling all the time.

The game isn't based around 1v1 combat, you only get rewarded for killing people in cyrodiil and bgs which aren't 1v1 environments.

Dueling overall isn't balanced at all either. Dueling setups and proper open world or bgs setups are completely different.

Its not even just outnumbered, its very strong in a group vs group. The damage is just insane plus if anything is rolling to heal and avoid more damage it received then if a warden is targeting that players they will die.

I've killed plenty of people who last patch would of survived the situation. Not just stamina characters eithers, mag sorcs with high stam regen, magplars etc... who all did a dodge roll to get some line of sight, get out of a root, let thing slike streak increase go away etc... they all died to my pigeon hitting them for like 9-10k when they did a defensive action.

Just like if you try and roll Dodge Radiant

I'm glad you're killing peeps whom try to LoS and Dodge. Stand and fight like a man

leepalmer95 · July 2017

SanTii.92 wrote: »

leepalmer95 wrote: »

SanTii.92 wrote: »

leepalmer95 wrote: »

SanTii.92 wrote: »

leepalmer95 wrote: »

SanTii.92 wrote: »

leepalmer95 wrote: »

SanTii.92 wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

davey1107 wrote: »

I like my stam Warden in pvp. My top feedback is that Wardens have no "killer app," an ability that gives them a defined, solid, fun role in pvp.

Blades have cloak, making them gankers. That is just an amazing ability considering the mechanics of the game. Sorcs have stacking, lethal ranged dps from hell (#nerfsorcs). Templars have jabs...that's an amazing abikity in pvp too. DKs have their defensive abilities.

I just haven't found anything with Warden that seems entirely distinct and awesome for pvp. I guess cliff racer was supposed to be a killer app, but...meh. It's a nice ability for pvp, but not something that makes me want to play my Warden over all the other characters.

I think it's killer "app" as you put it might be the fact the majority of DMG from (magicka) Warden is undodgeable/unreflectable damage.

Racer, Shalk, Force Pulse, SA/DboS, Sleet are all undodgeable

Force pulse is dodgeable. I just think the most defining skill is the healing ult.

Most of the skills go through walls as well.

I can cast a bird or two on someone and they can Los and the bird will just go through the wall.

Shalk just goes through the wall anyway.

I 2 hit someone with a back to back 12k pigeon today, fun times.

It's funny how ppl like to complain about the racer, yet they only are about 10% of total dps from most duels.

'Duels'

Don't don't mean anything, can you not use them for a benchmark for balance?

10% dps though in duels huh, do you even use the skill or nah?

Well, it's definetly a better one than from getting outnumbered, that's for sure.

Ya i do, just don't cast them that much cause you just lose preassure if you, unless you are going for the execute.

I'll try to gather a couple parses so you can see.

Pls don't show me duel parses... they literally mean nothing. Dueling isn't balanced and pvp isn't based around dueling at all.

What do you mean 'people' like me? E.g. someone whose has been playing a mag warden in pvp for 4-5 days now and admits undodgable pigeon is broken af?

I've 2 hit particular squishy targets and 3 hit well known pvp'ers with impen. There was literally nothing they can do about it. 13.5k pigeons tooltips + 15% from 15m away then add the fact i have like 82% bonus crit dmg.

What can they do? Because blocking doesn't seem to be doing much.

Pigeon spam is so much pressure that you can't really recovery from open world.

Pop an imov/detect pot on a stam nb and its game over.

I don't quite understand how you think balancing around 1v1s is not possible, yet you can call racer Op cause 'there is literally nothing to do about it' when outnumbered. Guess what, there is plenty of stuff at the same condition, truth is racers are not Op at all on 1v1s nor Group v Group

Lmao its very strong in a group, try it sometime instead of dueling all the time.

The game isn't based around 1v1 combat, you only get rewarded for killing people in cyrodiil and bgs which aren't 1v1 environments.

Dueling overall isn't balanced at all either. Dueling setups and proper open world or bgs setups are completely different.

Its not even just outnumbered, its very strong in a group vs group. The damage is just insane plus if anything is rolling to heal and avoid more damage it received then if a warden is targeting that players they will die.

I've killed plenty of people who last patch would of survived the situation. Not just stamina characters eithers, mag sorcs with high stam regen, magplars etc... who all did a dodge roll to get some line of sight, get out of a root, let thing slike streak increase go away etc... they all died to my pigeon hitting them for like 9-10k when they did a defensive action.

Very strong =/= Op. Again, there is plenty of stuff on the same category, you are just biased cause it's a mild counter to your build.

Look, i'm not opposed to some changes to the skill, but you if you want it to be dodgeable you got to offer some trade off. And you can't just make it instant cause the whole point of the class is to delay the dps to setup burst, think about something else.

Can we have the stam morph go through shields? For balance?

I currently play mag/stam warden, stam nb and mag sorc. It's not really countering my build its countering all stamina.

Waffennacht · July 2017

leepalmer95 wrote: »

SanTii.92 wrote: »

leepalmer95 wrote: »

SanTii.92 wrote: »

leepalmer95 wrote: »

SanTii.92 wrote: »

leepalmer95 wrote: »

SanTii.92 wrote: »

leepalmer95 wrote: »

SanTii.92 wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

davey1107 wrote: »

I like my stam Warden in pvp. My top feedback is that Wardens have no "killer app," an ability that gives them a defined, solid, fun role in pvp.

Blades have cloak, making them gankers. That is just an amazing ability considering the mechanics of the game. Sorcs have stacking, lethal ranged dps from hell (#nerfsorcs). Templars have jabs...that's an amazing abikity in pvp too. DKs have their defensive abilities.

I just haven't found anything with Warden that seems entirely distinct and awesome for pvp. I guess cliff racer was supposed to be a killer app, but...meh. It's a nice ability for pvp, but not something that makes me want to play my Warden over all the other characters.

I think it's killer "app" as you put it might be the fact the majority of DMG from (magicka) Warden is undodgeable/unreflectable damage.

Racer, Shalk, Force Pulse, SA/DboS, Sleet are all undodgeable

Force pulse is dodgeable. I just think the most defining skill is the healing ult.

Most of the skills go through walls as well.

I can cast a bird or two on someone and they can Los and the bird will just go through the wall.

Shalk just goes through the wall anyway.

I 2 hit someone with a back to back 12k pigeon today, fun times.

It's funny how ppl like to complain about the racer, yet they only are about 10% of total dps from most duels.

'Duels'

Don't don't mean anything, can you not use them for a benchmark for balance?

10% dps though in duels huh, do you even use the skill or nah?

Well, it's definetly a better one than from getting outnumbered, that's for sure.

Ya i do, just don't cast them that much cause you just lose preassure if you, unless you are going for the execute.

I'll try to gather a couple parses so you can see.

Pls don't show me duel parses... they literally mean nothing. Dueling isn't balanced and pvp isn't based around dueling at all.

What do you mean 'people' like me? E.g. someone whose has been playing a mag warden in pvp for 4-5 days now and admits undodgable pigeon is broken af?

I've 2 hit particular squishy targets and 3 hit well known pvp'ers with impen. There was literally nothing they can do about it. 13.5k pigeons tooltips + 15% from 15m away then add the fact i have like 82% bonus crit dmg.

What can they do? Because blocking doesn't seem to be doing much.

Pigeon spam is so much pressure that you can't really recovery from open world.

Pop an imov/detect pot on a stam nb and its game over.

I don't quite understand how you think balancing around 1v1s is not possible, yet you can call racer Op cause 'there is literally nothing to do about it' when outnumbered. Guess what, there is plenty of stuff at the same condition, truth is racers are not Op at all on 1v1s nor Group v Group

Lmao its very strong in a group, try it sometime instead of dueling all the time.

The game isn't based around 1v1 combat, you only get rewarded for killing people in cyrodiil and bgs which aren't 1v1 environments.

Dueling overall isn't balanced at all either. Dueling setups and proper open world or bgs setups are completely different.

Its not even just outnumbered, its very strong in a group vs group. The damage is just insane plus if anything is rolling to heal and avoid more damage it received then if a warden is targeting that players they will die.

I've killed plenty of people who last patch would of survived the situation. Not just stamina characters eithers, mag sorcs with high stam regen, magplars etc... who all did a dodge roll to get some line of sight, get out of a root, let thing slike streak increase go away etc... they all died to my pigeon hitting them for like 9-10k when they did a defensive action.

Very strong =/= Op. Again, there is plenty of stuff on the same category, you are just biased cause it's a mild counter to your build.

Look, i'm not opposed to some changes to the skill, but you if you want it to be dodgeable you got to offer some trade off. And you can't just make it instant cause the whole point of the class is to delay the dps to setup burst, think about something else.

Can we have the stam morph go through shields? For balance?

I currently play mag/stam warden, stam nb and mag sorc. It's not really countering my build its countering all stamina.

Make it Oblivion damage

But seriously, it should be countering dodge roll stamina, tanky perma blockers should have no issue against birds, a magicka build should have no problem countering birds, only medium armor glass cannon types suffer - and they deserve to suffer for their insane burst damage

I do not believe dodge roll should counter "everything" most people complain about any move that cannot be dodged, well that's the trade off for being able to dodge multiple attacks at once

Waffennacht · July 2017

I'm gonna put this theory out there. I've been watching many 1vX videos and have noticed many similarities.

Dodge Roll is the most crucial element in all 1vX videos (shuffle too)

How can one player survive 3-5 frags/clench/talons/wrath etc - even from lesser skilled players? You eliminate their advantage of numbers by using skills/mechanics that nullify the advantage of multiple simultaneous attacks

Dodge Roll / Block do this - Heals and Wards do not (while necessary, they alone will not show the same performance enhancement of block and roll Dodge)

Dodge counters "all" ( in theory, abilities that circumvent dodge are complained about because of this) abilities in a moment - nullifying the numbers advantage

Block Reduces massive amounts of damage (@80% DMG reduction you effectively turn the damage coming from 5 players into 1) if built for it

So when said abilities eliminate the dodgers ability to nullify numbers he is now forced to take on the disadvantage - and typically loses (cuz ya know 2>1)

This is why the vast majority of streamers (the well known ones) play with stamina (or Magicka NB or Sorc cuz streak and cloak also reduce the numbers advantage,)

Quite frankly an argument can be made that any ability or mechanics that nullify actual player number advantages are "OP" especially when introducing the idea of 1v1 (why I suspect many players hate the idea of balanced gameplay around 1v1 as it would mean the acknowledgement that certain abilities or mechanics are actually OP because they completely eliminate a single player)

Hempyre · July 2017

Farming stars are we?

Every post of yours.

"Thoughts on x?"

Ariades_swe · July 2017

Waffennacht wrote: »

I'm gonna put this theory out there. I've been watching many 1vX videos and have noticed many similarities.

Dodge Roll is the most crucial element in all 1vX videos (shuffle too)

How can one player survive 3-5 frags/clench/talons/wrath etc - even from lesser skilled players? You eliminate their advantage of numbers by using skills/mechanics that nullify the advantage of multiple simultaneous attacks

Dodge Roll / Block do this - Heals and Wards do not (while necessary, they alone will not show the same performance enhancement of block and roll Dodge)

Dodge counters "all" ( in theory, abilities that circumvent dodge are complained about because of this) abilities in a moment - nullifying the numbers advantage

Block Reduces massive amounts of damage (@80% DMG reduction you effectively turn the damage coming from 5 players into 1) if built for it

So when said abilities eliminate the dodgers ability to nullify numbers he is now forced to take on the disadvantage - and typically loses (cuz ya know 2>1)

This is why the vast majority of streamers (the well known ones) play with stamina (or Magicka NB or Sorc cuz streak and cloak also reduce the numbers advantage,)

Quite frankly an argument can be made that any ability or mechanics that nullify actual player number advantages are "OP" especially when introducing the idea of 1v1 (why I suspect many players hate the idea of balanced gameplay around 1v1 as it would mean the acknowledgement that certain abilities or mechanics are actually OP because they completely eliminate a single player)

This is spot on.

ak_pvp · July 2017

Docmandu wrote: »

AnviOfVai wrote: »

I feel like the warden is lacking some good damage abilities though, I'm just using pulse and screaming cliff racer. as stated above haha!

Warden actually has pretty decent burst.. and a high damage spammable.. if I had to pinpoint an issue, I'd say the lack of a decent finisher is an issue sometimes... as anything with healing ward or a shield will just recover if you don't 1-shot.

Cliff racer is the counter to the dodge dodge dodge dodge dodge dodge dodge'rs.

Dodge is underpowered, most abilities completely ignore it.

SodanTok · July 2017

Waffennacht wrote: »

I'm gonna put this theory out there. I've been watching many 1vX videos and have noticed many similarities.

Dodge Roll is the most crucial element in all 1vX videos (shuffle too)

How can one player survive 3-5 frags/clench/talons/wrath etc - even from lesser skilled players? You eliminate their advantage of numbers by using skills/mechanics that nullify the advantage of multiple simultaneous attacks

Dodge Roll / Block do this - Heals and Wards do not (while necessary, they alone will not show the same performance enhancement of block and roll Dodge)

Dodge counters "all" ( in theory, abilities that circumvent dodge are complained about because of this) abilities in a moment - nullifying the numbers advantage

Block Reduces massive amounts of damage (@80% DMG reduction you effectively turn the damage coming from 5 players into 1) if built for it

So when said abilities eliminate the dodgers ability to nullify numbers he is now forced to take on the disadvantage - and typically loses (cuz ya know 2>1)

This is why the vast majority of streamers (the well known ones) play with stamina (or Magicka NB or Sorc cuz streak and cloak also reduce the numbers advantage,)

Quite frankly an argument can be made that any ability or mechanics that nullify actual player number advantages are "OP" especially when introducing the idea of 1v1 (why I suspect many players hate the idea of balanced gameplay around 1v1 as it would mean the acknowledgement that certain abilities or mechanics are actually OP because they completely eliminate a single player)

While everything you said is true, you have to look from other perspective too. The way dodge roll works, if you are medium armor build you get more dodges. You don't get better dodges, you only get more. And that was fine in the past. But even in past year (and dodge roll was hardly OP year ago) the 'more' became smaller number and the holes on "dodge rolling sieve" got bigger. It is annoying now, but if the trend continues, less of better dodges (like being in heavy or having a shield) will be far more important.
The sustain nerfs and the way dodge cost stack work alone make it impossible to apply dodge roll constantly. And what do you do on build that is supposed avoid damage when you cant do it anymore (and you dont have cloak which is basically better dodge roll that is using different resource). Sure, it is hard to sustain shielding or perma blocking too, but dodge is the only that is mathematically impossible to sustain for longer period no matter how hard you try.

Waffennacht · July 2017

SodanTok wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

I'm gonna put this theory out there. I've been watching many 1vX videos and have noticed many similarities.

Dodge Roll is the most crucial element in all 1vX videos (shuffle too)

How can one player survive 3-5 frags/clench/talons/wrath etc - even from lesser skilled players? You eliminate their advantage of numbers by using skills/mechanics that nullify the advantage of multiple simultaneous attacks

Dodge Roll / Block do this - Heals and Wards do not (while necessary, they alone will not show the same performance enhancement of block and roll Dodge)

Dodge counters "all" ( in theory, abilities that circumvent dodge are complained about because of this) abilities in a moment - nullifying the numbers advantage

Block Reduces massive amounts of damage (@80% DMG reduction you effectively turn the damage coming from 5 players into 1) if built for it

So when said abilities eliminate the dodgers ability to nullify numbers he is now forced to take on the disadvantage - and typically loses (cuz ya know 2>1)

This is why the vast majority of streamers (the well known ones) play with stamina (or Magicka NB or Sorc cuz streak and cloak also reduce the numbers advantage,)

Quite frankly an argument can be made that any ability or mechanics that nullify actual player number advantages are "OP" especially when introducing the idea of 1v1 (why I suspect many players hate the idea of balanced gameplay around 1v1 as it would mean the acknowledgement that certain abilities or mechanics are actually OP because they completely eliminate a single player)

While everything you said is true, you have to look from other perspective too. The way dodge roll works, if you are medium armor build you get more dodges. You don't get better dodges, you only get more. And that was fine in the past. But even in past year (and dodge roll was hardly OP year ago) the 'more' became smaller number and the holes on "dodge rolling sieve" got bigger. It is annoying now, but if the trend continues, less of better dodges (like being in heavy or having a shield) will be far more important.
The sustain nerfs and the way dodge cost stack work alone make it impossible to apply dodge roll constantly. And what do you do on build that is supposed avoid damage when you cant do it anymore (and you dont have cloak which is basically better dodge roll that is using different resource). Sure, it is hard to sustain shielding or perma blocking too, but dodge is the only that is mathematically impossible to sustain for longer period no matter how hard you try.

A build who's only defense is a mechanic that negates ALl damage and ALL effects Must have a weakness. That's the trade off - Completely negating multiple abilities in a single moment must have a trade off of severe damage when it doesn't work.

If a build could dodge roll as much as a medium armor AND have the survivability of say shield stacking, you absolutely have something OP.

It's like cloak, when it works it's absolutely perfect, when it's countered it's dead weight - the trade off

Now if shields gained strength based on the number of attackers it would then be balanced not around 1v1 - like roll Dodge

Simple fact is Roll Dodge is really the BEST mitigation in game and HAS to have counters.

As is, it's one of the only reasons multiple players can lose to a single player.

CaliCrippy714 · July 2017

One thing that annoys me most about magwarden in pvp is the bear ulti. I prefer to run unmorphed because if your bear gets killed, You spend 5 seconds doing the summoning animation mid battle which contributes to a lot of my deaths. Get rid of that animation and the bear might be viable for cyrodiil.

SanTii.92 · July 2017

CaliCrippy714 wrote: »

One thing that annoys me most about magwarden in pvp is the bear ulti. I prefer to run unmorphed because if your bear gets killed, You spend 5 seconds doing the summoning animation mid battle which contributes to a lot of my deaths. Get rid of that animation and the bear might be viable for cyrodiil.

I'll just paste this

SanTii.92 wrote: »

I think the first priority got to be to let the bear be single barred it. It's functionality is too straight forward to occupy both ult slots, and can't really compete with the utility that brings a second ult for pvp nor the aoe for pve, even when it's single target dmge is fine. Not to mention the pathing issues it still probably has.

Increase proc cost to 85, move some dmge from the basic attacks to the proc, so you got to choose aoe/utility or single dmge, split the dmge into 2 hits, so it's not too oppresive for pvp, and allow us to single bar it.

Drachenfier · July 2017

SanTii.92 wrote: »

Drachenfier wrote: »

redshirt_49 wrote: »

Takes-No-Prisoner wrote: »

Koensol wrote: »

shepardTHEweak wrote: »

screaming cliff racer,screaming cliff racer,screaming cliff racer,screaming cliff racer,screaming cliff racer,screaming cliff racer,screaming cliff racer,screaming cliff racer,screaming cliff racer...zzzzzzzzzzzzz

This.

This is what I was seeing yesterday:

Screaming Cliff Racer, Screaming Cliff Racer, Screaming Cliff Racer, Power of the Light, Screaming Cliff Racer, Screaming Cliff Racer, Screaming Cliff Racer, Screaming Cliff Racer, Screaming Cliff Racer, Screaming Cliff Racer, Screaming Cliff Racer, Screaming Cliff Racer, Screaming Cliff Racer, Screaming Cliff Racer, Screaming Cliff Racer, Screaming Cliff Racer, Screaming Cliff Racer, Screaming Cliff Racer, dead target.

Is it less or more annoying than Snipe, Snipe, Snipe, Snipe, Snipe, Snipe, Snipe, Snipe, Snipe, Snipe, Snipe, Snipe, Snipe, Snipe, Snipe, Snipe, Snipe, Snipe, Snipe, Snipe, Snipe, Snipe, Snipe, Snipe, Snipe, Snipe, Snipe, Snipe, Snipe, Snipe, Snipe, Snipe, Snipe, Snipe, Snipe, Snipe, Snipe, Snipe, Snipe, Snipe, Snipe, Snipe, Snipe, Snipe, Snipe, Snipe, Snipe, Snipe, Snipe, Snipe, Snipe, Snipe, Snipe, Snipe, Snipe, Snipe, Snipe, Snipe, Snipe, Snipe, Snipe, Snipe, Snipe, Snipe, Snipe, Snipe ?

Can't snipe be dodged and reflected?

Doesn't it also hit 2x harder and can be casted from further away?

You mean zero damage, when dodged or reflected? heh

SodanTok · July 2017

Waffennacht wrote: »

SodanTok wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

I'm gonna put this theory out there. I've been watching many 1vX videos and have noticed many similarities.

Dodge Roll is the most crucial element in all 1vX videos (shuffle too)

How can one player survive 3-5 frags/clench/talons/wrath etc - even from lesser skilled players? You eliminate their advantage of numbers by using skills/mechanics that nullify the advantage of multiple simultaneous attacks

Dodge Roll / Block do this - Heals and Wards do not (while necessary, they alone will not show the same performance enhancement of block and roll Dodge)

Dodge counters "all" ( in theory, abilities that circumvent dodge are complained about because of this) abilities in a moment - nullifying the numbers advantage

Block Reduces massive amounts of damage (@80% DMG reduction you effectively turn the damage coming from 5 players into 1) if built for it

So when said abilities eliminate the dodgers ability to nullify numbers he is now forced to take on the disadvantage - and typically loses (cuz ya know 2>1)

This is why the vast majority of streamers (the well known ones) play with stamina (or Magicka NB or Sorc cuz streak and cloak also reduce the numbers advantage,)

Quite frankly an argument can be made that any ability or mechanics that nullify actual player number advantages are "OP" especially when introducing the idea of 1v1 (why I suspect many players hate the idea of balanced gameplay around 1v1 as it would mean the acknowledgement that certain abilities or mechanics are actually OP because they completely eliminate a single player)

While everything you said is true, you have to look from other perspective too. The way dodge roll works, if you are medium armor build you get more dodges. You don't get better dodges, you only get more. And that was fine in the past. But even in past year (and dodge roll was hardly OP year ago) the 'more' became smaller number and the holes on "dodge rolling sieve" got bigger. It is annoying now, but if the trend continues, less of better dodges (like being in heavy or having a shield) will be far more important.
The sustain nerfs and the way dodge cost stack work alone make it impossible to apply dodge roll constantly. And what do you do on build that is supposed avoid damage when you cant do it anymore (and you dont have cloak which is basically better dodge roll that is using different resource). Sure, it is hard to sustain shielding or perma blocking too, but dodge is the only that is mathematically impossible to sustain for longer period no matter how hard you try.

A build who's only defense is a mechanic that negates ALl damage and ALL effects Must have a weakness. That's the trade off - Completely negating multiple abilities in a single moment must have a trade off of severe damage when it doesn't work.

If a build could dodge roll as much as a medium armor AND have the survivability of say shield stacking, you absolutely have something OP.

It's like cloak, when it works it's absolutely perfect, when it's countered it's dead weight - the trade off

Now if shields gained strength based on the number of attackers it would then be balanced not around 1v1 - like roll Dodge

Simple fact is Roll Dodge is really the BEST mitigation in game and HAS to have counters.

As is, it's one of the only reasons multiple players can lose to a single player.

If you read more carefully, I am not disagreeing with existence of counters. But counters should be way to force you play differently not change to different build/class

Like cliff racers. If you cant play 1v20 because they hit you with undodgable 3k damage cliff racers. Fine by me. But if you cant fight 1v2 because they have soul assault and 7k cliff racers or potl or curses it is just wrong. As I said, medium armor gets just more dodge rolls. Everybody can dodge roll. You can dodge pretty effectively the important stuff when you play shield/heavy/block build. You cannot play medium by dodging only the important stuff, because you die to normal stuff. And you cannot shield/block the other stuff, because first is magicka only and second is currently designed to be in every way the opposite of medium armor (selfsnare that costs stamina to perform and removes the source of stamina, you cn hold block naked and it feels nearly same)