The Gold Road Chapter – which includes the Scribing system – and Update 42 is now available to test on the PTS! You can read the latest patch notes here: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/656454/
Why no nerf to magicka sorcs?
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Ragnaroek93✭✭✭✭✭
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So everyone that disagrees with you and your alternative facts is a "bad player"? Gotcha. Thanks for contributing to the discussion.
Meanwhile, we can return to the reality where magicka sorcerer is still the top dog of any duel spot, closely followed by heavy armor cancer builds & medium armor being the underdog in every respect, good only for ganking noobs with proc sets.
Feel free to prove me wrong.
The fact that you think medium armor is underdog in every respect tells me to just disregard anything you say cus you have no idea what you're talking about.
There is a reason why almost everybody who used to play in medium armor rerolled, quitted duels or quitted ESO at all. Yes, it works for stomping potatoes in open world, in a "competitive" environment medium armor is barely viable. I have a magicka sorc by myself (my second most played char) and with the upcoming changes I don't fear medium armor builds at all.I used to think that PvP was a tragedy, but now I realize, it's a comedy.2 -
WreckfulAbandon✭✭✭✭✭
✭WreckfulAbandon wrote: »WreckfulAbandon wrote: »WreckfulAbandon wrote: »Because none are necessary. Exactly as I had predicted in the last PTS cycle, sorcs were significantly nerfed in reality despite what it seemed like on paper and are relatively much weaker in morrowind than in homestead. Class is perfectly balanced as far as I'm concerned now.
I haven't seen a single good player complain about em, nor have I had any trouble whatsoever vs sorcs unless I'm outnumbered. If you have problems with sorcs in particular in the summer 2017, you are just plain bad.
So everyone that disagrees with you and your alternative facts is a "bad player"? Gotcha. Thanks for contributing to the discussion.
Meanwhile, we can return to the reality where magicka sorcerer is still the top dog of any duel spot, closely followed by heavy armor cancer builds & medium armor being the underdog in every respect, good only for ganking noobs with proc sets.
Feel free to prove me wrong.
The reality is that Magicka Sorcs share the upper tier of dueling with quite a few other specs, including medium armor users.
This is bs.
Medium armor is the worst it has ever been. Even back in 2014 before Vigor was introduced and most stam builds had 0 self heals, medium armor was more competitive (and I even have footage to prove it).
The only people medium armor users currently beat are other medium armor users & less skilled players.
I know of a certain Stamplar spec and a certain Stamsorc spec that can absolutely shred in 1v1. They both put out insane dmg and they both require medium armor. I dunno about StamDK anymore but I imagine there are still OP setups. Stamblade can kill super quick with procs.
I dusted off my old Stamsorc after 2 years, outfitted with non-BiS gear, and proceeded to shred ppl of all classes 1v1 in BG's and Cyrodiil with it.
Well you haven't been playing against good players then.
I run the highest damage setup imaginable for a medium armor stamina build and it isn't enough to "shred" anyone.
Heavy armor takes zero damage from anything you do and shields absorb everything you do.
Meanwhile, a light/heavy armor opponent will capitalize on your lack of mitigation & 1,7k/s~ healing potential (if you're full dmg/stamina like me) and will melt you.
Out of 20+ people on the duel spot, you're lucky to find one medium armor user these days on EU megaserver.
Nothing is going to melt a HA user, but unless it's a Magplar you can reliably wear them down with DoT's. As for shields it's L2P you can definitely shred those.
Not on a medium armor build. Not when you have Curse, Flame Clench & 2 Pets dealing more DoT damage to you than your Vigor can outheal and when you have to roll dodge as often as possible to avoid instagib frag+curse combos.
Heavy armor can deal with them, since the mitigation/blocking greatly lowers the incoming damage - but medium is way too squishy to survive, (let alone survive & simultaneously nuke targets) currently.
Magsorc vs Stamplar I feel (for example) is weighted towards the Stamplar if both players are equal skill. They can't purge every curse, but they can purge at the right time to save themselves, and good luck hitting with a cfrag without setting it up. I can kill them but it can always go either way.
End of the day it's all about pressure, if you're stuck shielding/healing on the defensive then you're losing the fight. And medium could perhaps be buffed but I think there is more parity than you realize.
Edit: just noticed you mentioned 2 pets hitting you... all I have to say on that is **** pets you can nerf them to oblivion for all I care, anyone who uses petsorc in duels is cowardly.Edited by WreckfulAbandon on July 12, 2017 7:11PMPC NA
All my comments are regarding PvP0 -
DDuke✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭@DDuke
Highest damage spec? What's your buffed WD then?
@Derra
I feel like talking to a wall. Glad you joined in.
@Joy_Division
Thanks for your very thougful posts as well. Appreciated.
I'm at 3,9k weapon damage buffed, while also running 5x Poisonous Serpent (aka "the better Viper") & 5x Sheer Venom for some of the strongest procs in the game.
Wanted to actually make a new build/PvP video of that, but I won't bother if medium armor isn't competitive in 1v1 or 1vX against non-potatoes. So yeah, you (or anyone else) feel free to use that setup for ganking/whatever until it's nerfed, just don't try duels since you'll be disappointed.Edited by DDuke on July 12, 2017 7:06PM0 -
Derra✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Strider_Roshin wrote: »Why no nerf to magicka sorcs?
Because whenever something critical of sorcerer is mentioned, the same fanatic forum sorcerers who have never even tried another class show up to defend their pet class with every alternative fact in their arsenal.
Nobody will deny a discussion based on solid arguments. The overwhelming majority of nerf Sorc whining is just having a nerf for the nerfs sake though. That's why people don't come up with a viable alternative. Take shield stacking, the forum poster child for perceived Sorc issues. Ok, take away shield stacking. What defensive mechanism would you give to Sorcs instead? Here is your chance at making a well rounded argument. I will be surprised if you get it done.
Oh may I chime in then?
Reduce the proc time of Mage's Fury to 2 seconds rather than 4. This way when someone gets auto-executed it's done a little more aggressively. Rather than the set it, and forget it style that we currently have.
Nerf haunting curse's damage by 30%, and replace Daedric Prey with the original Vicious Curse with no damage nerf. They'll nerf rearming trap's damage by 30% because it goes off twice, but not this? A bit inconsistent.
There needs to be no bonus damage given to proc'd Crystal frag. It hits VERY hard, it costs half as much, it CCs, and it's instant; there's no need for bonus damage.
A change to damage shields:
They need to get a huge cost increase. Blocking stops stam regen, and you lose a chunk of stamina every half second while blocking an aggressor. And it mitigates 50% of damage received against almost every attack in the game.
Dodge rolling mitigates all damage from an ever decreasing list of abilities that can actually be dodged in this game; however it gets a 33% increase in cost penalty for repeat uses with 4 seconds of the previous dodge roll
Damage shields, like dodge rolling mitigate all damage. However unlock dodge rolling it can actually work against every ability in the game (bleed damage being an exception). And unlike blocking, and dodge rolling damage shields continue to work even while CC'd. Yet they are the least punishing on your resources out of the 3 defense mechanics. This is incredibly unbalanced, and therefore they need to be much more expensive. Doubling the cost might actually be a balanced increase. Especially considering how much easier it is to manage resources when playing magicka in comparison to stamina.
These suggestions are so bad I don't know if you're trolling or if you think that would be balanced.
I could maybe get behind shortening the pre execute of endless fury. It would reduce burst, and timing burst is already not easy. Because that super frag proc you mentioned is a projectile that's one of the easiest to avoid if you're not a) close range or b) the target is occupied elsewhere and inattentive. Also the bonus damage was already reduced by 10% last patches.
Nerfing curse again would take away burst. Burst you successfully have to line up over 3 abilities. Compare that to stam burst through set pieces or the infamous Incap -> SA.
Finally, shields. Hardened Ward is not cheap. I'd have to look up the exact numbers but it costs around 2100 mag IIRC on my Sorc. Harness Magicka clocks in at around 2900 or something. You want to double that. Have fun playing on a noCP campaign with 35k total Magicka when one of you shields costs 4 to 6k.
It would be better to just delete the class on that case.
If Hardened Ward isn't cheap, then why can people still spam them non-stop even without going full into sustain gear?
And why does it instantly shield you from twice the damage that Vigor (which, btw, costs more than Hardened Ward) heals over 5 seconds?
These are balance issues, like it or not.
Because of how hots interact with other defense mechanics - most prominently: Block.
Also have you figured in your crit and critheal modifier when comparing vigor to hardened? On top of that vigor is an aoe heal.
I don´t disagree there are balance issues with shields - but it´s not hardened ward on a nonstacked magica build.
Imo total shieldstrengh should be limited to 60 to 70% of a character maximum hp and double that out of cyro. Would alliviate a lot of issues with super high magica builds, shieldstacking harness and hardened or hardened/harness + healingward @ low hp.
Yeah, I did the math earlier with crit percentage & modifier included.
On average, it's 1,7k healing per second from Vigor not counting Minor/Major defile.
That´s the problem with the ability to layer multiple hots that allow for "protected" offensive gameplay in the process (ie rally, vigor, bloodcraze).
It´s true medium armor needs something. But from my perspective it´s not damage (mainly due to procc still being a thing).
What do you think about my comment on how to adjust shielding?
Edit: Dueling however is just a cheesefest. A "normal" magsorc build isn´t vaible there at all (against duel builds) and a dueling magsorc build isn´t vaible for open world.
I feel it should not be the (but a) reference point for balancing discussions.Edited by Derra on July 12, 2017 7:14PM<Noricum>
I live. I die. I live again.
Derra - DC - Sorc - AvA 50
Derrah - EP - Sorc - AvA 503 -
Derra✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭GreenSoup2HoT wrote: »It's not really sorcs that are the problem. It's the fact that max magicka increases their already powerful shields and burst damage. You take a sorc with a normal magicka pool, they will still be strong, but not exactly what I would call overpowered. Give a sorc 70k magicka and you'll wish you never ran into them. Massive uncrittable shields and able to instantly burst a player from 50% health.
Yes they are dangerous, but it's more the magicka scaling than the sorc itself.
With The Mage buff next patch I'm sure it will be even more fun.
Yeah i agree. Max stat scaling needs to stop. If someone wants strong burst and shields they shouldnt have tons of fuel in the tank also. Mag sorcs need the dk treatment.
What should it scale on then? I´d love for all shields to scale like healing ward - with magica and spelldmg like heals?<Noricum>
I live. I die. I live again.
Derra - DC - Sorc - AvA 50
Derrah - EP - Sorc - AvA 501 -
DDuke✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Strider_Roshin wrote: »Why no nerf to magicka sorcs?
Because whenever something critical of sorcerer is mentioned, the same fanatic forum sorcerers who have never even tried another class show up to defend their pet class with every alternative fact in their arsenal.
Nobody will deny a discussion based on solid arguments. The overwhelming majority of nerf Sorc whining is just having a nerf for the nerfs sake though. That's why people don't come up with a viable alternative. Take shield stacking, the forum poster child for perceived Sorc issues. Ok, take away shield stacking. What defensive mechanism would you give to Sorcs instead? Here is your chance at making a well rounded argument. I will be surprised if you get it done.
Oh may I chime in then?
Reduce the proc time of Mage's Fury to 2 seconds rather than 4. This way when someone gets auto-executed it's done a little more aggressively. Rather than the set it, and forget it style that we currently have.
Nerf haunting curse's damage by 30%, and replace Daedric Prey with the original Vicious Curse with no damage nerf. They'll nerf rearming trap's damage by 30% because it goes off twice, but not this? A bit inconsistent.
There needs to be no bonus damage given to proc'd Crystal frag. It hits VERY hard, it costs half as much, it CCs, and it's instant; there's no need for bonus damage.
A change to damage shields:
They need to get a huge cost increase. Blocking stops stam regen, and you lose a chunk of stamina every half second while blocking an aggressor. And it mitigates 50% of damage received against almost every attack in the game.
Dodge rolling mitigates all damage from an ever decreasing list of abilities that can actually be dodged in this game; however it gets a 33% increase in cost penalty for repeat uses with 4 seconds of the previous dodge roll
Damage shields, like dodge rolling mitigate all damage. However unlock dodge rolling it can actually work against every ability in the game (bleed damage being an exception). And unlike blocking, and dodge rolling damage shields continue to work even while CC'd. Yet they are the least punishing on your resources out of the 3 defense mechanics. This is incredibly unbalanced, and therefore they need to be much more expensive. Doubling the cost might actually be a balanced increase. Especially considering how much easier it is to manage resources when playing magicka in comparison to stamina.
These suggestions are so bad I don't know if you're trolling or if you think that would be balanced.
I could maybe get behind shortening the pre execute of endless fury. It would reduce burst, and timing burst is already not easy. Because that super frag proc you mentioned is a projectile that's one of the easiest to avoid if you're not a) close range or b) the target is occupied elsewhere and inattentive. Also the bonus damage was already reduced by 10% last patches.
Nerfing curse again would take away burst. Burst you successfully have to line up over 3 abilities. Compare that to stam burst through set pieces or the infamous Incap -> SA.
Finally, shields. Hardened Ward is not cheap. I'd have to look up the exact numbers but it costs around 2100 mag IIRC on my Sorc. Harness Magicka clocks in at around 2900 or something. You want to double that. Have fun playing on a noCP campaign with 35k total Magicka when one of you shields costs 4 to 6k.
It would be better to just delete the class on that case.
If Hardened Ward isn't cheap, then why can people still spam them non-stop even without going full into sustain gear?
And why does it instantly shield you from twice the damage that Vigor (which, btw, costs more than Hardened Ward) heals over 5 seconds?
These are balance issues, like it or not.
Because of how hots interact with other defense mechanics - most prominently: Block.
Also have you figured in your crit and critheal modifier when comparing vigor to hardened? On top of that vigor is an aoe heal.
I don´t disagree there are balance issues with shields - but it´s not hardened ward on a nonstacked magica build.
Imo total shieldstrengh should be limited to 60 to 70% of a character maximum hp and double that out of cyro. Would alliviate a lot of issues with super high magica builds, shieldstacking harness and hardened or hardened/harness + healingward @ low hp.
Yeah, I did the math earlier with crit percentage & modifier included.
On average, it's 1,7k healing per second from Vigor not counting Minor/Major defile.
That´s the problem with the ability to layer multiple hots that allow for "protected" offensive gameplay in the process (ie rally, vigor, bloodcraze).
It´s true medium armor needs something. But from my perspective it´s not damage (mainly due to procc still being a thing).
What do you think about my comment on how to adjust shielding?
Yeah, I wouldn't mind that. Would mean shield strength of some 12-13k (which is still manageable) for most of the magicka stackers. But as usual, I doubt ZOS will listen to reason.
I also don't think medium armor necessarily needs more damage - it needs more survivability so you can actually deal damage.*
I remember back in 2015 when the game was more balanced, it was possible to use heavy attacks on medium armor stam build to sustain & your vigor would outheal most of the incoming damage while you still needed to dodge/cloak the hard hitting abilities. These days you try that & you'll just get melted, no matter how much you invest in getting a big Vigor tooltip.
I don't know how ZOS can fix that without turning medium into another heavy armor fiasco - maybe they could give some kind of dmg reduction while roll dodging & make more attacks dodgeable or something and just buff stamina self heals.
*Or alternatively the FOTM builds (light & heavy armor builds) need to get brought down to the same level of power where medium currently is.Edited by DDuke on July 12, 2017 7:36PM1 -
dpencil1✭✭✭✭✭
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You are a bad sorc they have 51k parses on live. Stick to your magblade.A Nightblade does a 47k parse, whIle my mSorc that hits 40k on live can only get 36k on the pts. We did get nerfed indirectly via Ilambir, Grothdarr, mundus and trait changes that don't play into sorc strengths, and reduced uptime on concussed.
@Destyran
Sheesh, dude. No need for the antagonism. I don't have a NB. My mSorc is my main and only max level char. I've just seen other people post parse videos, and the best I've seen for a mSorc on live was 43k. I'd love to see a vid of someone doing 51k legit solo without mines cheese. Please post the link here.
P.S. And the point of my post was to mention the indirect nerfs that are hitting Sorcs this patch. Whatever your idea if good players are getting on live (as if someone parsing 40k could be bad...seriously), from what I've seen so far in testing on PTS, dps for mSorcs is going to drop. That's really the argument you should prove wrong.Edited by dpencil1 on July 12, 2017 8:00PM0 -
lrizo✭✭
Oh, I don't have a problem with shield stacking. I have a problem with the strength level of each individual shield.
1K magicka gives you roughly 500 points to shield strength (Harness or Dampen Magic) without counting any modifiers to that 1K magicka (of which there are plenty for magicka).
1K stamina gives you 37 health/second (or 185 health over 5 seconds) to Resolving Vigor.
Can you honestly claim this is balanced?
If you want to know what lack of defensive mechanisms feels like, try playing a medium armor build.
yeah it is completely balanced and I don't know how many times it has to be said before it gets through some of these thick skull forum bitchers. Shields have 0 resistances. A 10k shield is essentially 10k health on a naked lvl one new born. The two are extremely close by comparison. Did you ever ask yourself why med armor builds don't need shields...?
Rally
Vigor
Your damn resistances
Shuffle
sorcs only have shields and I don't say this to pitty sorcs. It's just to show you that we have our defense mechanisms and you have yours.
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CyrusArya✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Ragnaroek93 wrote: »
There is a reason why almost everybody who used to play in medium armor rerolled, quitted duels or quitted ESO at all. Yes, it works for stomping potatoes in open world, in a "competitive" environment medium armor is barely viable. I have a magicka sorc by myself (my second most played char) and with the upcoming changes I don't fear medium armor builds at all.
I can assure you medium is more than viable in BGs or any scale of pvp from solo to 24 man raids. In a dueling environment, sure, heavy can be stronger. But the game never has been nor should it be balanced around duels. What works optimally in a 1v1 might not be so optimal open world, and vice versa.
My main point is, as far as I am concerned, myself and the people I play with enjoy great success running medium. Could we argue for buffs? Sure. But to say it is unplayable and basically useless outside ganking is nothing but hyberbole and emotionally jaded whining.Edited by CyrusArya on July 12, 2017 9:03PM2 -
DDuke✭✭✭✭✭
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Oh, I don't have a problem with shield stacking. I have a problem with the strength level of each individual shield.
1K magicka gives you roughly 500 points to shield strength (Harness or Dampen Magic) without counting any modifiers to that 1K magicka (of which there are plenty for magicka).
1K stamina gives you 37 health/second (or 185 health over 5 seconds) to Resolving Vigor.
Can you honestly claim this is balanced?
If you want to know what lack of defensive mechanisms feels like, try playing a medium armor build.
yeah it is completely balanced and I don't know how many times it has to be said before it gets through some of these thick skull forum bitchers. Shields have 0 resistances. A 10k shield is essentially 10k health on a naked lvl one new born. The two are extremely close by comparison. Did you ever ask yourself why med armor builds don't need shields...?
Rally
Vigor
Your damn resistances
Shuffle
sorcs only have shields and I don't say this to pitty sorcs. It's just to show you that we have our defense mechanisms and you have yours.
Shields don't have resistances (17% for 7 legendary quality medium pieces), but they prevent crits (50%+ damage) from happening. Math isn't hard my friend.
And did I ever ask myself why medium armor doesn't need shields?
Not really, not when that was the case 1-2 years ago, back when roll dodge actually evaded more than half the incoming damage and back when Vigor could outheal the rest.
This isn't the case anymore.
Do I think medium armor needs shields? No, I don't want homogenization & dumbing down of the game - there has already been enough of that. But medium armor needs something to survive with.
I think some perspective would be good.
Here's a blast from the past, when the game was more balanced and medium armor was actually competitive:
https://youtu.be/fEjhVhSLKN4?t=8m4s
This is how medium armor should be able to play.
Now you try that and you'll just melt while dealing 0 dmg to your light or heavy armor opponent.1 -
DDuke✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Ragnaroek93 wrote: »
There is a reason why almost everybody who used to play in medium armor rerolled, quitted duels or quitted ESO at all. Yes, it works for stomping potatoes in open world, in a "competitive" environment medium armor is barely viable. I have a magicka sorc by myself (my second most played char) and with the upcoming changes I don't fear medium armor builds at all.
I can assure you medium is more than viable in BGs or any scale of pvp from solo to 24 man raids. In a dueling environment, sure, heavy can be stronger. But the game never has been nor should it be balanced around duels. What works optimally in a 1v1 might not be so optimal open world, and vice versa.
My main point is, as far as I am concerned, myself and the people I play with enjoy great success running medium. Could we argue for buffs? Sure. But to say it is unplayable and basically useless outside ganking is nothing but hyberbole and emotionally jaded whining.
There's a little flaw in your argument: if you can't beat good heavy/light builds in 1v1, how do you expect to beat them 1vX elsewhere? Are you suggesting it's ok that medium is only good against bad players?
Every good build begins from it being viable in 1v1 for the aforementioned reason and then you begin tinkering it to work for 1vX.
You do it the other way, and it'll only be good against bad players.
Oh, and I guess we have different definitions of "enjoying great success".Edited by DDuke on July 12, 2017 9:15PM1 -
Strider_Roshin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Strider_Roshin wrote: »Why no nerf to magicka sorcs?
Because whenever something critical of sorcerer is mentioned, the same fanatic forum sorcerers who have never even tried another class show up to defend their pet class with every alternative fact in their arsenal.
Nobody will deny a discussion based on solid arguments. The overwhelming majority of nerf Sorc whining is just having a nerf for the nerfs sake though. That's why people don't come up with a viable alternative. Take shield stacking, the forum poster child for perceived Sorc issues. Ok, take away shield stacking. What defensive mechanism would you give to Sorcs instead? Here is your chance at making a well rounded argument. I will be surprised if you get it done.
Oh may I chime in then?
Reduce the proc time of Mage's Fury to 2 seconds rather than 4. This way when someone gets auto-executed it's done a little more aggressively. Rather than the set it, and forget it style that we currently have.
Nerf haunting curse's damage by 30%, and replace Daedric Prey with the original Vicious Curse with no damage nerf. They'll nerf rearming trap's damage by 30% because it goes off twice, but not this? A bit inconsistent.
There needs to be no bonus damage given to proc'd Crystal frag. It hits VERY hard, it costs half as much, it CCs, and it's instant; there's no need for bonus damage.
A change to damage shields:
They need to get a huge cost increase. Blocking stops stam regen, and you lose a chunk of stamina every half second while blocking an aggressor. And it mitigates 50% of damage received against almost every attack in the game.
Dodge rolling mitigates all damage from an ever decreasing list of abilities that can actually be dodged in this game; however it gets a 33% increase in cost penalty for repeat uses with 4 seconds of the previous dodge roll
Damage shields, like dodge rolling mitigate all damage. However unlock dodge rolling it can actually work against every ability in the game (bleed damage being an exception). And unlike blocking, and dodge rolling damage shields continue to work even while CC'd. Yet they are the least punishing on your resources out of the 3 defense mechanics. This is incredibly unbalanced, and therefore they need to be much more expensive. Doubling the cost might actually be a balanced increase. Especially considering how much easier it is to manage resources when playing magicka in comparison to stamina.
These suggestions are so bad I don't know if you're trolling or if you think that would be balanced.
I could maybe get behind shortening the pre execute of endless fury. It would reduce burst, and timing burst is already not easy. Because that super frag proc you mentioned is a projectile that's one of the easiest to avoid if you're not a) close range or b) the target is occupied elsewhere and inattentive. Also the bonus damage was already reduced by 10% last patches.
Nerfing curse again would take away burst. Burst you successfully have to line up over 3 abilities. Compare that to stam burst through set pieces or the infamous Incap -> SA.
Finally, shields. Hardened Ward is not cheap. I'd have to look up the exact numbers but it costs around 2100 mag IIRC on my Sorc. Harness Magicka clocks in at around 2900 or something. You want to double that. Have fun playing on a noCP campaign with 35k total Magicka when one of you shields costs 4 to 6k.
It would be better to just delete the class on that case.
If Hardened Ward isn't cheap, then why can people still spam them non-stop even without going full into sustain gear?
And why does it instantly shield you from twice the damage that Vigor (which, btw, costs more than Hardened Ward) heals over 5 seconds?
These are balance issues, like it or not.
Because of how hots interact with other defense mechanics - most prominently: Block.
Also have you figured in your crit and critheal modifier when comparing vigor to hardened? On top of that vigor is an aoe heal.
I don´t disagree there are balance issues with shields - but it´s not hardened ward on a nonstacked magica build.
Imo total shieldstrengh should be limited to 60 to 70% of a character maximum hp and double that out of cyro. Would alliviate a lot of issues with super high magica builds, shieldstacking harness and hardened or hardened/harness + healingward @ low hp.
Just to clarify: max shield strength should be 70% of max health is while battle spirit is in effect or not while it's in effect?
I think it's a solid idea, and will encourage people to invest at least something into their health.Edited by Strider_Roshin on July 12, 2017 9:29PM0 -
Subversus✭✭✭✭✭
✭Having read 2 pages of this thread I can already feel my brain cells trying to commit suicide. The amount of ignorant people calling sorc OP is insane.
Y'all have obviously not played mag sorc at a competitive level against other equally skilled STAMINA toons or you wouldn't call it OP otherwise. It's insane how ignorant you people are at times.
Also note that this comes from a magblade main, so absolutely no bias - only logical thinking and understanding of other classes.
Meta players should stfu when it comes to what classes need to get nerfed. I understand you get instagibbed by sorcs when you play a medium armor procblade, but it's most likely a l2p issue
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Feanor✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I just checked on live. In no CP without cost reduction glyphs and the cost of Empowered Ward is 3014 (2754 with Seducer) and that of Harness Magicka 4269 (3902 with Seducer). Go spam this and see how far you get.Edited by Feanor on July 12, 2017 9:33PMMain characters: Feanor the Believer - AD Altmer mSorc - AR 46 - Flawless Conqueror (PC EU)Idril Arnanor - AD Altmer mSorc - CP 217 - Stormproof (PC NA)Other characters:Necrophilius Killgood - DC Imperial NecromancerFearscales - AD Argonian Templar - Stormproof (healer)Draco Imperialis - AD Imperial DK (tank)Cabed Naearamarth - AD Dunmer mDKValirion Willowthorne - AD Bosmer stamBladeTuruna - AD Altmer magBladeKheled Zaram - AD Redguard stamDKKibil Nala - AD Redguard stamSorc - StormproofYavanna Kémentárí - AD Breton magWardenAzog gro-Ghâsh - EP Orc stamWardenVidar Drakenblød - DC Nord mDKMarquis de Peyrac - DC Breton mSorc - StormproofRawlith Khaj'ra - AD Khajiit stamWardenTu'waccah - AD Redguard StamplarAll chars 50 @ CP 1700+. Playing and enjoying PvP with RdK mostly on PC EU.0 -
Strider_Roshin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭I just checked on live. In no CP without cost reduction glyphs and the cost of Empowered Ward is 3014 (2754 with Seducer) and that of Harness Magicka 4269 (3902 with Seducer). Go spam this and see how far you get.
Wanna wager a bet? How about we both go in a no CP campaign, and I'll spam dodge roll with a full bar of stamina, and you can spam whichever shield you choose, and see who runs out of resources first. The loser gets nerfed
1 -
Feanor✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Strider_Roshin wrote: »I just checked on live. In no CP without cost reduction glyphs and the cost of Empowered Ward is 3014 (2754 with Seducer) and that of Harness Magicka 4269 (3902 with Seducer). Go spam this and see how far you get.
Wanna wager a bet? How about we both go in a no CP campaign, and I'll spam dodge roll with a full bar of stamina, and you can spam whichever shield you choose, and see who runs out of resources first. The loser gets nerfed
If you're going to spam dodge roll you build for it with 7/7 well-fitted. Also - as repeatedly pointed out - no need to spam dodge roll because of the other defensive mechanisms in place. I'll withdraw from the discussion though. I don't want to repeat the same stuff over and over. Hf.
Edited by Feanor on July 12, 2017 9:41PMMain characters: Feanor the Believer - AD Altmer mSorc - AR 46 - Flawless Conqueror (PC EU)Idril Arnanor - AD Altmer mSorc - CP 217 - Stormproof (PC NA)Other characters:Necrophilius Killgood - DC Imperial NecromancerFearscales - AD Argonian Templar - Stormproof (healer)Draco Imperialis - AD Imperial DK (tank)Cabed Naearamarth - AD Dunmer mDKValirion Willowthorne - AD Bosmer stamBladeTuruna - AD Altmer magBladeKheled Zaram - AD Redguard stamDKKibil Nala - AD Redguard stamSorc - StormproofYavanna Kémentárí - AD Breton magWardenAzog gro-Ghâsh - EP Orc stamWardenVidar Drakenblød - DC Nord mDKMarquis de Peyrac - DC Breton mSorc - StormproofRawlith Khaj'ra - AD Khajiit stamWardenTu'waccah - AD Redguard StamplarAll chars 50 @ CP 1700+. Playing and enjoying PvP with RdK mostly on PC EU.0 -
CyrusArya✭✭✭✭✭
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There's a little flaw in your argument: if you can't beat good heavy/light builds in 1v1, how do you expect to beat them 1vX elsewhere? Are you suggesting it's ok that medium is only good against bad players?
Every good build begins from it being viable in 1v1 for the aforementioned reason and then you begin tinkering it to work for 1vX.
You do it the other way, and it'll only be good against bad players.
Oh, and I guess we have different definitions of "enjoying great success".
Thats not a flaw in my argument because I never once said I struggle with light and heavy armored opponents...cus I don't. Thats all you. Medium is plenty viable 1v1 against anything in my experience. Just because you personally struggle with it doesn't mean that is a universal experience shared by all.
Looks like you are as bad at debating as you are at playing in medium armor. Arguing with people who are this rhetorically challenged is always a waste of time, so I'm done here.0 -
Thogard✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭DDuke seems to still be using strategies from 2015 whilst fighting players in 2017.
Medium armor users are extremely hard to kill if they're updated. Especially if they're using impregnable/well fitted! Only thing harder is heavy users using impregnable / sturdy. Both of those builds are far more effective than shield stacking because dodge rolling and blocking also make you temporarily immune to stuns
And as others have pointed out, a mag stacking sorc is going to be very vulnerable to CC
Also, the sturdy or well fitted builds tend to do very well in 1vX situations, whereas shield stacking just melts...Edited by Thogard on July 12, 2017 9:50PMPC NA - @dazkt - Dazk Ardoonkt / Sir Thogalot / Dask Dragoh’t / Dazk Dragoh’t / El Thogardo
Stream: twitch.tv/THOGARDvsThePeasants
YouTube: http://youtube.com/c/thogardpvp1 -
DDuke✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Strider_Roshin wrote: »I just checked on live. In no CP without cost reduction glyphs and the cost of Empowered Ward is 3014 (2754 with Seducer) and that of Harness Magicka 4269 (3902 with Seducer). Go spam this and see how far you get.
Wanna wager a bet? How about we both go in a no CP campaign, and I'll spam dodge roll with a full bar of stamina, and you can spam whichever shield you choose, and see who runs out of resources first. The loser gets nerfed
If you're going to spam dodge roll you build for it with 7/7 well-fitted. Also - as repeatedly pointed out - no need to spam dodge roll because of the other defensive mechanisms in place. I'll withdraw from the discussion though. I don't want to repeat the same stuff over and over. Hf.
You repeating the same stuff over and over doesn't make it any more factual than it was the first time. The "other defensive mechanisms in place" barely outheal opponent's light attacks on a build stacked with weapon dmg/stamina, let alone skills & DoTs - and dodge roll doesn't work at all against half the stuff out there.Having read 2 pages of this thread I can already feel my brain cells trying to commit suicide. The amount of ignorant people calling sorc OP is insane.
Y'all have obviously not played mag sorc at a competitive level against other equally skilled STAMINA toons or you wouldn't call it OP otherwise. It's insane how ignorant you people are at times.
Also note that this comes from a magblade main, so absolutely no bias - only logical thinking and understanding of other classes.
Meta players should stfu when it comes to what classes need to get nerfed. I understand you get instagibbed by sorcs when you play a medium armor procblade, but it's most likely a l2p issue
Are you sure that's not just your brain cells not understanding what's written? I hear that happens to some people.
As a magicka NB, I don't suppose you're even capable of understanding what medium armor users go through when fighting good light/heavy users currently, so why comment on that? Why ask people if they've played magicka sorc at a "competitive level", if you haven't done so yourself?
As a matter of fact, one of my 10 max lvl characters does happen to be magicka sorc, which is exactly why I know they're overtuned (along with heavy armor cancer builds).
You should take your own advise and stfu when you don't have a clue what you're talking about.Edited by DDuke on July 12, 2017 9:53PM1 -
DDuke✭✭✭✭✭
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There's a little flaw in your argument: if you can't beat good heavy/light builds in 1v1, how do you expect to beat them 1vX elsewhere? Are you suggesting it's ok that medium is only good against bad players?
Every good build begins from it being viable in 1v1 for the aforementioned reason and then you begin tinkering it to work for 1vX.
You do it the other way, and it'll only be good against bad players.
Oh, and I guess we have different definitions of "enjoying great success".
Thats not a flaw in my argument because I never once said I struggle with light and heavy armored opponents...cus I don't. Thats all you. Medium is plenty viable 1v1 against anything in my experience. Just because you personally struggle with it doesn't mean that is a universal experience shared by all.
Looks like you are as bad at debating as you are at playing in medium armor. Arguing with people who are this rhetorically challenged is always a waste of time, so I'm done here.
"in my experience" keywords in your text.
Your experience, from what I can tell, is extremely limited. I bet you wouldn't last 10 seconds against my stamblade (yeah, I can still beat other medium trash builds), let alone someone in a good light/heavy build.1 -
DDuke✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭DDuke seems to still be using strategies from 2015 whilst fighting players in 2017.
Medium armor users are extremely hard to kill if they're updated. Especially if they're using impregnable/well fitted! Only thing harder is heavy users using impregnable / sturdy. Both of those builds are far more effective than shield stacking because dodge rolling and blocking also make you temporarily immune to stuns
And as others have pointed out, a mag stacking sorc is going to be very vulnerable to CC
Also, the sturdy or well fitted builds tend to do very well in 1vX situations, whereas shield stacking just melts...
Who said I'm using "2015 strategies" (whatever that means)?
If you mean build, I have tested over a dozen of medium armor ones over the past month or so and you couldn't possibly come up with a better one than what I currently have (no, it's not the 2015 one lol). It's perfect in every way, except medium armor viability.
And of course every medium build these days uses impen/well-fitted in PvP - that goes without saying (duh).
No good player is "vulnerable to CC", since that CC gets broken instantly by good players.
I've had this argument on the forums over a dozen times during the past 3 years - CC in this game virtually doesn't exist - it's a stamina drain or something you land at the exact same time as your burst combo (which gets eaten up by dmg shield or mitigation).Edited by DDuke on July 12, 2017 10:31PM1 -
lrizo✭✭
Oh, I don't have a problem with shield stacking. I have a problem with the strength level of each individual shield.
1K magicka gives you roughly 500 points to shield strength (Harness or Dampen Magic) without counting any modifiers to that 1K magicka (of which there are plenty for magicka).
1K stamina gives you 37 health/second (or 185 health over 5 seconds) to Resolving Vigor.
Can you honestly claim this is balanced?
If you want to know what lack of defensive mechanisms feels like, try playing a medium armor build.
yeah it is completely balanced and I don't know how many times it has to be said before it gets through some of these thick skull forum bitchers. Shields have 0 resistances. A 10k shield is essentially 10k health on a naked lvl one new born. The two are extremely close by comparison. Did you ever ask yourself why med armor builds don't need shields...?
Rally
Vigor
Your damn resistances
Shuffle
sorcs only have shields and I don't say this to pitty sorcs. It's just to show you that we have our defense mechanisms and you have yours.
Shields don't have resistances (17% for 7 legendary quality medium pieces), but they prevent crits (50%+ damage) from happening. Math isn't hard my friend.
And did I ever ask myself why medium armor doesn't need shields?
Not really, not when that was the case 1-2 years ago, back when roll dodge actually evaded more than half the incoming damage and back when Vigor could outheal the rest.
This isn't the case anymore.
Do I think medium armor needs shields? No, I don't want homogenization & dumbing down of the game - there has already been enough of that. But medium armor needs something to survive with.
I think some perspective would be good.
Here's a blast from the past, when the game was more balanced and medium armor was actually competitive:https://youtu.be/fEjhVhSLKN4?t=8m4s
This is how medium armor should be able to play.
Now you try that and you'll just melt while dealing 0 dmg to your light or heavy armor opponent.
Mate your bitchin about your med armor not performing like it did 1-2 years ago and coming on the forms to blame sorc shields? Pathetic.
So what additional nerf on top of the 3 previous ones do you suggest be added to shields? I'd love to see your answer and I'd love to see how bad it would hurt the class.
Trust me I'd much rather have the infinite dodge rolling med armor builds back instead of this shuffle ***. But the only reason it's here is because the forums are filled with *** players that can't kill other class's sucking off zos for nerfs. Mate you're the reason the game is so unbalanced. zos listens to your "please nerf" and they over exaggerate killing off a class for 2-3 months.2 -
MLGProPlayer✭✭✭✭✭
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Which is completely useless in PvE. Their PvE DPS is like 10k behind the other classes.Edited by MLGProPlayer on July 12, 2017 10:10PM0 -
DDuke✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭
Oh, I don't have a problem with shield stacking. I have a problem with the strength level of each individual shield.
1K magicka gives you roughly 500 points to shield strength (Harness or Dampen Magic) without counting any modifiers to that 1K magicka (of which there are plenty for magicka).
1K stamina gives you 37 health/second (or 185 health over 5 seconds) to Resolving Vigor.
Can you honestly claim this is balanced?
If you want to know what lack of defensive mechanisms feels like, try playing a medium armor build.
yeah it is completely balanced and I don't know how many times it has to be said before it gets through some of these thick skull forum bitchers. Shields have 0 resistances. A 10k shield is essentially 10k health on a naked lvl one new born. The two are extremely close by comparison. Did you ever ask yourself why med armor builds don't need shields...?
Rally
Vigor
Your damn resistances
Shuffle
sorcs only have shields and I don't say this to pitty sorcs. It's just to show you that we have our defense mechanisms and you have yours.
Shields don't have resistances (17% for 7 legendary quality medium pieces), but they prevent crits (50%+ damage) from happening. Math isn't hard my friend.
And did I ever ask myself why medium armor doesn't need shields?
Not really, not when that was the case 1-2 years ago, back when roll dodge actually evaded more than half the incoming damage and back when Vigor could outheal the rest.
This isn't the case anymore.
Do I think medium armor needs shields? No, I don't want homogenization & dumbing down of the game - there has already been enough of that. But medium armor needs something to survive with.
I think some perspective would be good.
Here's a blast from the past, when the game was more balanced and medium armor was actually competitive:https://youtu.be/fEjhVhSLKN4?t=8m4s
This is how medium armor should be able to play.
Now you try that and you'll just melt while dealing 0 dmg to your light or heavy armor opponent.
Mate your bitchin about your med armor not performing like it did 1-2 years ago and coming on the forms to blame sorc shields? Pathetic.
So what additional nerf on top of the 3 previous ones do you suggest be added to shields? I'd love to see your answer and I'd love to see how bad it would hurt the class.
Trust me I'd much rather have the infinite dodge rolling med armor builds back instead of this shuffle ***. But the only reason it's here is because the forums are filled with *** players that can't kill other class's sucking off zos for nerfs. Mate you're the reason the game is so unbalanced. zos listens to your "please nerf" and they over exaggerate killing off a class for 2-3 months.
See, here's the problem... you're seeing sorc "nerfs" when in fact they've been getting buffed patch after patch after patch.
This is largely due to how these shields/dmg scale with maximum magicka, and how maximum magicka has been getting out of control with every patch increasing it via CPs & better and better gear.
Just in this patch, you'll have another 3k more magicka atleast thanks to how they're changing magicka set bonuses (and CP cap increase), which means, once again, atleast 1,5k stronger shield.
Yes, stamina builds also get stamina - but their defensive skills do not scale as well as magicka ones.
1K Magicka=500 points to shield strength
1K Stamina=37 health/second with Vigor
The discrepancy is mind-bogglingly obvious.
Now, I don't just have a problem with magicka sorcerers, but they're certainly at the top of the list. Heavy armor cancer builds are a close second in the nerf list.
I guess it's really more a matter of medium armor being garbage currently, but since I know from experience ZOS is unlikely to ever buff it (or anything that actually requires buffing), nerfs have to be called for instead - as unfortunate as it is.Edited by DDuke on July 12, 2017 10:14PM3 -
Murador178✭✭✭✭Having read 2 pages of this thread I can already feel my brain cells trying to commit suicide. The amount of ignorant people calling sorc OP is insane.
Y'all have obviously not played mag sorc at a competitive level against other equally skilled STAMINA toons or you wouldn't call it OP otherwise. It's insane how ignorant you people are at times.
Also note that this comes from a magblade main, so absolutely no bias - only logical thinking and understanding of other classes.
Meta players should stfu when it comes to what classes need to get nerfed. I understand you get instagibbed by sorcs when you play a medium armor procblade, but it's most likely a l2p issue
Hmm i think u want to get one soulassault killed by mine sorc with medium armor
(wont work vs nbs so 
).Yes I also got most classes in stam and magicka and yes procblades are stupid- glad viper gets nerfed.
If u noticed @DDuke isnt spamming rolls like crazy in this videos - he got 1 heal (vigor) and does some very nice reactive dodgerolling on the important spells like frags. Calling him a meta player shows u didn't watch the video- HE RUNS DW/DW - an insane meta build(that was before the OP axe dot changes even).
I always see claims like medium armor shackle nb is so OP even in duels - @Magıc, so these players never even come dueling with there stamblade and if it's heavy armor 3 axes + legion+ ravager .
The probem is quite easy to find. Zeni added every patch like 5 spells going through dodgeroll- increased dodgeroll costs(a good change) and added broken procs for both mag and stam. So why dont we get more line skills going through shields or block, sorcs can block reactive aswell(they will need to learn probably so)- my stamblade also needs to block leap or die. refreshing my 45k magicka shields in bgs insnt to hard. Getting some stamreg ontop helps aswell.
EDIT:
My "dream" changes
-adjust broken sets like:amberplasm(why did they nerf bonepirate if u can have 5 set bonuses in the light armor set aswell), seventh legion, ravager, necropotence, Lich, u may name me an overpowered medium armor set
-make all procs dots
- nerf heavy armor sustain a bit more
- slight block nerfs vs dot decrease internal cd on blockcost
- drecrease dmg taken in dodgeroll by 30-50%
- change shield scaling to hp or spelldmg/magicka (so no only magicka stacking shields get that extreme high, not nerfing normal 40k
magicka builds)
- And move rallye to fighters guild getting so bored of almost every worthwhile build needing 2h- 2h is strong anyways with the execute and wb and the 2h ult.
Edited by Murador178 on July 13, 2017 12:25AM2 -
RinaldoGandolphi✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭The crying about mag Sorcs has just gotten ridiculous at this point. They have clear defined weakness and the most telegraphed combos in the game
They haven't been OP since 2015....Rinaldo Gandolphi-Breton Sorcerer Daggerfall Covenant
Juste Gandolphi Dark Elf Templar Daggerfall Covenant
Richter Gandolphi - Dark Elf Dragonknight Daggerfall Covenant
Mathias Gandolphi - Breton Nightblade Daggerfall Covenant
RinaldoGandolphi - High Elf Sorcerer Aldmeri Dominion
Officer Fire and Ice
Co-GM - MVP
Sorcerer's - The ONLY class in the game that is punished for using its class defining skill (Bolt Escape)
"Here in his shrine, that they have forgotten. Here do we toil, that we might remember. By night we reclaim, what by day was stolen. Far from ourselves, he grows ever near to us. Our eyes once were blinded, now through him do we see. Our hands once were idle, now through them does he speak. And when the world shall listen, and when the world shall see, and when the world remembers, that world will cease to be. - Miraak5 -
olsborg✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Why no nerf to magicka sorcs?
Because whenever something critical of sorcerer is mentioned, the same fanatic forum sorcerers who have never even tried another class show up to defend their pet class with every alternative fact in their arsenal.
Nobody will deny a discussion based on solid arguments. The overwhelming majority of nerf Sorc whining is just having a nerf for the nerfs sake though. That's why people don't come up with a viable alternative. Take shield stacking, the forum poster child for perceived Sorc issues. Ok, take away shield stacking. What defensive mechanism would you give to Sorcs instead? Here is your chance at making a well rounded argument. I will be surprised if you get it done.
Oh, I don't have a problem with shield stacking. I have a problem with the strength level of each individual shield.
1K magicka gives you roughly 500 points to shield strength (Harness or Dampen Magic) without counting any modifiers to that 1K magicka (of which there are plenty for magicka).
1K stamina gives you 37 health/second (or 185 health over 5 seconds) to Resolving Vigor.
Can you honestly claim this is balanced?
If you want to know what lack of defensive mechanisms feels like, try playing a medium armor build.
Funnily enough, medium armor builds were more balanced back in 2014 when they didn't even have Vigor (zero self heals), but could actually outdamage shield spam & run opponents out of resources (especially stamina) by forcing them to roll dodge or block a lot.
Yup
Medium armor playstyle has been the weakest playstyle since...a very long time. This is when you compare equally skilled players playing light or heavy armor playstyle with it. Medium armor playstyle is the most fun tho, when 1vXing scrubs and randoms imo. Does medium armor need a buff? yea I think so.
PC EU
PvP only3 -
GreenSoup2HoT✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Why no nerf to magicka sorcs?
Because whenever something critical of sorcerer is mentioned, the same fanatic forum sorcerers who have never even tried another class show up to defend their pet class with every alternative fact in their arsenal.
Nobody will deny a discussion based on solid arguments. The overwhelming majority of nerf Sorc whining is just having a nerf for the nerfs sake though. That's why people don't come up with a viable alternative. Take shield stacking, the forum poster child for perceived Sorc issues. Ok, take away shield stacking. What defensive mechanism would you give to Sorcs instead? Here is your chance at making a well rounded argument. I will be surprised if you get it done.
Oh, I don't have a problem with shield stacking. I have a problem with the strength level of each individual shield.
1K magicka gives you roughly 500 points to shield strength (Harness or Dampen Magic) without counting any modifiers to that 1K magicka (of which there are plenty for magicka).
1K stamina gives you 37 health/second (or 185 health over 5 seconds) to Resolving Vigor.
Can you honestly claim this is balanced?
If you want to know what lack of defensive mechanisms feels like, try playing a medium armor build.
Funnily enough, medium armor builds were more balanced back in 2014 when they didn't even have Vigor (zero self heals), but could actually outdamage shield spam & run opponents out of resources (especially stamina) by forcing them to roll dodge or block a lot.
Yup
Medium armor playstyle has been the weakest playstyle since...a very long time. This is when you compare equally skilled players playing light or heavy armor playstyle with it. Medium armor playstyle is the most fun tho, when 1vXing scrubs and randoms imo. Does medium armor need a buff? yea I think so.
In my opinion, medium armour only excels because its short comings are removed due to shadow cloak with stamblade. Without cloak, i can't see anyone performing to the same standard as a light armour sorc in medium.PS4 NA DC0 -
Militan1404✭✭✭DisgracefulMind wrote: »Magicka Sorcerers don't need a nerf. At all.
Of course not, then u had to switch ur class0 -
lrizo✭✭
Oh, I don't have a problem with shield stacking. I have a problem with the strength level of each individual shield.
1K magicka gives you roughly 500 points to shield strength (Harness or Dampen Magic) without counting any modifiers to that 1K magicka (of which there are plenty for magicka).
1K stamina gives you 37 health/second (or 185 health over 5 seconds) to Resolving Vigor.
Can you honestly claim this is balanced?
If you want to know what lack of defensive mechanisms feels like, try playing a medium armor build.
yeah it is completely balanced and I don't know how many times it has to be said before it gets through some of these thick skull forum bitchers. Shields have 0 resistances. A 10k shield is essentially 10k health on a naked lvl one new born. The two are extremely close by comparison. Did you ever ask yourself why med armor builds don't need shields...?
Rally
Vigor
Your damn resistances
Shuffle
sorcs only have shields and I don't say this to pitty sorcs. It's just to show you that we have our defense mechanisms and you have yours.
Shields don't have resistances (17% for 7 legendary quality medium pieces), but they prevent crits (50%+ damage) from happening. Math isn't hard my friend.
And did I ever ask myself why medium armor doesn't need shields?
Not really, not when that was the case 1-2 years ago, back when roll dodge actually evaded more than half the incoming damage and back when Vigor could outheal the rest.
This isn't the case anymore.
Do I think medium armor needs shields? No, I don't want homogenization & dumbing down of the game - there has already been enough of that. But medium armor needs something to survive with.
I think some perspective would be good.
Here's a blast from the past, when the game was more balanced and medium armor was actually competitive:https://youtu.be/fEjhVhSLKN4?t=8m4s
This is how medium armor should be able to play.
Now you try that and you'll just melt while dealing 0 dmg to your light or heavy armor opponent.
Mate your bitchin about your med armor not performing like it did 1-2 years ago and coming on the forms to blame sorc shields? Pathetic.
So what additional nerf on top of the 3 previous ones do you suggest be added to shields? I'd love to see your answer and I'd love to see how bad it would hurt the class.
Trust me I'd much rather have the infinite dodge rolling med armor builds back instead of this shuffle ***. But the only reason it's here is because the forums are filled with *** players that can't kill other class's sucking off zos for nerfs. Mate you're the reason the game is so unbalanced. zos listens to your "please nerf" and they over exaggerate killing off a class for 2-3 months.
See, here's the problem... you're seeing sorc "nerfs" when in fact they've been getting buffed patch after patch after patch.
This is largely due to how these shields/dmg scale with maximum magicka, and how maximum magicka has been getting out of control with every patch increasing it via CPs & better and better gear.
Just in this patch, you'll have another 3k more magicka atleast thanks to how they're changing magicka set bonuses (and CP cap increase), which means, once again, atleast 1,5k stronger shield.
Yes, stamina builds also get stamina - but their defensive skills do not scale as well as magicka ones.
1K Magicka=500 points to shield strength
1K Stamina=37 health/second with Vigor
The discrepancy is mind-bogglingly obvious.
Now, I don't just have a problem with magicka sorcerers, but they're certainly at the top of the list. Heavy armor cancer builds are a close second in the nerf list.
I guess it's really more a matter of medium armor being garbage currently, but since I know from experience ZOS is unlikely to ever buff it (or anything that actually requires buffing), nerfs have to be called for instead - as unfortunate as it is.
The sorc itself has not been getting buffs, just last patch frags got a 10% dmg nerf, light armor passives got hit and lost 7% recov. The only good that happened was curse has a second tick now which saves only a hair of magicka.
The only type of mag sorcs that need to be takin care of are pet builds. I could care less if those unskilled mf'ers get nerfed. But the true og sorcs are in very good condition.
As said above the 0 resistances make up for the "discrepancy"... that's huge.
If you go and play a solid week in the non cp campaign you'd see how much builds rely on cp and how different the game is. People die when they're suppose to die and everything fits in place. The only thing is proc sets over perform in non cp.
With that being said the only thing that zos should fix or rework are proc sets and cp. sorcs are not top of the list.
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This discussion has been closed.