You are a bad sorc they have 51k parses on live. Stick to your magblade.A Nightblade does a 47k parse, whIle my mSorc that hits 40k on live can only get 36k on the pts. We did get nerfed indirectly via Ilambir, Grothdarr, mundus and trait changes that don't play into sorc strengths, and reduced uptime on concussed.
I think its burst damage is wayy to high on live with being able to overlap 4skills with ultiStam Nb hitting 45k self DPS...I think you need to buff other classes. Especially Warden
- Update 23Ice Furnace: This item set now grants Spell Damage, rather than Weapon Damage for the 4 piece bonus
Wow all the stam pvpler really claim that stam has weak defense.
Dodge rolling is the best defensive mechanism in the game combine that with extrem strong hots and a passive dodge change and you have an extrem high defensive mechanism. The only problem stamina has is doesn't have a spam-able burst heal.
Shields are already quite expensive and last only 6 sec, the only problem i have with shields is the magica return of harness magica.
Strider_Roshin wrote: »Why no nerf to magicka sorcs?
Because whenever something critical of sorcerer is mentioned, the same fanatic forum sorcerers who have never even tried another class show up to defend their pet class with every alternative fact in their arsenal.
Nobody will deny a discussion based on solid arguments. The overwhelming majority of nerf Sorc whining is just having a nerf for the nerfs sake though. That's why people don't come up with a viable alternative. Take shield stacking, the forum poster child for perceived Sorc issues. Ok, take away shield stacking. What defensive mechanism would you give to Sorcs instead? Here is your chance at making a well rounded argument. I will be surprised if you get it done.
Oh may I chime in then?
Reduce the proc time of Mage's Fury to 2 seconds rather than 4. This way when someone gets auto-executed it's done a little more aggressively. Rather than the set it, and forget it style that we currently have.
Nerf haunting curse's damage by 30%, and replace Daedric Prey with the original Vicious Curse with no damage nerf. They'll nerf rearming trap's damage by 30% because it goes off twice, but not this? A bit inconsistent.
There needs to be no bonus damage given to proc'd Crystal frag. It hits VERY hard, it costs half as much, it CCs, and it's instant; there's no need for bonus damage.
A change to damage shields:
They need to get a huge cost increase. Blocking stops stam regen, and you lose a chunk of stamina every half second while blocking an aggressor. And it mitigates 50% of damage received against almost every attack in the game.
Dodge rolling mitigates all damage from an ever decreasing list of abilities that can actually be dodged in this game; however it gets a 33% increase in cost penalty for repeat uses with 4 seconds of the previous dodge roll
Damage shields, like dodge rolling mitigate all damage. However unlock dodge rolling it can actually work against every ability in the game (bleed damage being an exception). And unlike blocking, and dodge rolling damage shields continue to work even while CC'd. Yet they are the least punishing on your resources out of the 3 defense mechanics. This is incredibly unbalanced, and therefore they need to be much more expensive. Doubling the cost might actually be a balanced increase. Especially considering how much easier it is to manage resources when playing magicka in comparison to stamina.
Strider_Roshin wrote: »Why no nerf to magicka sorcs?
Because whenever something critical of sorcerer is mentioned, the same fanatic forum sorcerers who have never even tried another class show up to defend their pet class with every alternative fact in their arsenal.
Nobody will deny a discussion based on solid arguments. The overwhelming majority of nerf Sorc whining is just having a nerf for the nerfs sake though. That's why people don't come up with a viable alternative. Take shield stacking, the forum poster child for perceived Sorc issues. Ok, take away shield stacking. What defensive mechanism would you give to Sorcs instead? Here is your chance at making a well rounded argument. I will be surprised if you get it done.
Oh may I chime in then?
Reduce the proc time of Mage's Fury to 2 seconds rather than 4. This way when someone gets auto-executed it's done a little more aggressively. Rather than the set it, and forget it style that we currently have.
Nerf haunting curse's damage by 30%, and replace Daedric Prey with the original Vicious Curse with no damage nerf. They'll nerf rearming trap's damage by 30% because it goes off twice, but not this? A bit inconsistent.
There needs to be no bonus damage given to proc'd Crystal frag. It hits VERY hard, it costs half as much, it CCs, and it's instant; there's no need for bonus damage.
A change to damage shields:
They need to get a huge cost increase. Blocking stops stam regen, and you lose a chunk of stamina every half second while blocking an aggressor. And it mitigates 50% of damage received against almost every attack in the game.
Dodge rolling mitigates all damage from an ever decreasing list of abilities that can actually be dodged in this game; however it gets a 33% increase in cost penalty for repeat uses with 4 seconds of the previous dodge roll
Damage shields, like dodge rolling mitigate all damage. However unlock dodge rolling it can actually work against every ability in the game (bleed damage being an exception). And unlike blocking, and dodge rolling damage shields continue to work even while CC'd. Yet they are the least punishing on your resources out of the 3 defense mechanics. This is incredibly unbalanced, and therefore they need to be much more expensive. Doubling the cost might actually be a balanced increase. Especially considering how much easier it is to manage resources when playing magicka in comparison to stamina.
These suggestions are so bad I don't know if you're trolling or if you think that would be balanced.
I could maybe get behind shortening the pre execute of endless fury. It would reduce burst, and timing burst is already not easy. Because that super frag proc you mentioned is a projectile that's one of the easiest to avoid if you're not a) close range or b) the target is occupied elsewhere and inattentive. Also the bonus damage was already reduced by 10% last patches.
Nerfing curse again would take away burst. Burst you successfully have to line up over 3 abilities. Compare that to stam burst through set pieces or the infamous Incap -> SA.
Finally, shields. Hardened Ward is not cheap. I'd have to look up the exact numbers but it costs around 2100 mag IIRC on my Sorc. Harness Magicka clocks in at around 2900 or something. You want to double that. Have fun playing on a noCP campaign with 35k total Magicka when one of you shields costs 4 to 6k.
It would be better to just delete the class on that case.
^ agree. I mean seriously have people run out of stuff to post about so go back to their default Nerf Sorc bandwagon. Which generally draws support from any noob at PvP who thinks they are invincible.
L2P and sorc are the easiest to take down.
Try managing active defence since MW resource changes dropped or seeing how useless wards are No-CP then come back and chat...
Strider_Roshin wrote: »A change to damage shields:
They need to get a huge cost increase. Blocking stops stam regen, and you lose a chunk of stamina every half second while blocking an aggressor. And it mitigates 50% of damage received against almost every attack in the game.
Dodge rolling mitigates all damage from an ever decreasing list of abilities that can actually be dodged in this game; however it gets a 33% increase in cost penalty for repeat uses with 4 seconds of the previous dodge roll
Damage shields, like dodge rolling mitigate all damage. However unlock dodge rolling it can actually work against every ability in the game (bleed damage being an exception). And unlike blocking, and dodge rolling damage shields continue to work even while CC'd. Yet they are the least punishing on your resources out of the 3 defense mechanics. This is incredibly unbalanced, and therefore they need to be much more expensive. Doubling the cost might actually be a balanced increase. Especially considering how much easier it is to manage resources when playing magicka in comparison to stamina.
Strider_Roshin wrote: »Why no nerf to magicka sorcs?
Because whenever something critical of sorcerer is mentioned, the same fanatic forum sorcerers who have never even tried another class show up to defend their pet class with every alternative fact in their arsenal.
Nobody will deny a discussion based on solid arguments. The overwhelming majority of nerf Sorc whining is just having a nerf for the nerfs sake though. That's why people don't come up with a viable alternative. Take shield stacking, the forum poster child for perceived Sorc issues. Ok, take away shield stacking. What defensive mechanism would you give to Sorcs instead? Here is your chance at making a well rounded argument. I will be surprised if you get it done.
Oh may I chime in then?
Reduce the proc time of Mage's Fury to 2 seconds rather than 4. This way when someone gets auto-executed it's done a little more aggressively. Rather than the set it, and forget it style that we currently have.
Nerf haunting curse's damage by 30%, and replace Daedric Prey with the original Vicious Curse with no damage nerf. They'll nerf rearming trap's damage by 30% because it goes off twice, but not this? A bit inconsistent.
There needs to be no bonus damage given to proc'd Crystal frag. It hits VERY hard, it costs half as much, it CCs, and it's instant; there's no need for bonus damage.
A change to damage shields:
They need to get a huge cost increase. Blocking stops stam regen, and you lose a chunk of stamina every half second while blocking an aggressor. And it mitigates 50% of damage received against almost every attack in the game.
Dodge rolling mitigates all damage from an ever decreasing list of abilities that can actually be dodged in this game; however it gets a 33% increase in cost penalty for repeat uses with 4 seconds of the previous dodge roll
Damage shields, like dodge rolling mitigate all damage. However unlock dodge rolling it can actually work against every ability in the game (bleed damage being an exception). And unlike blocking, and dodge rolling damage shields continue to work even while CC'd. Yet they are the least punishing on your resources out of the 3 defense mechanics. This is incredibly unbalanced, and therefore they need to be much more expensive. Doubling the cost might actually be a balanced increase. Especially considering how much easier it is to manage resources when playing magicka in comparison to stamina.
These suggestions are so bad I don't know if you're trolling or if you think that would be balanced.
I could maybe get behind shortening the pre execute of endless fury. It would reduce burst, and timing burst is already not easy. Because that super frag proc you mentioned is a projectile that's one of the easiest to avoid if you're not a) close range or b) the target is occupied elsewhere and inattentive. Also the bonus damage was already reduced by 10% last patches.
Nerfing curse again would take away burst. Burst you successfully have to line up over 3 abilities. Compare that to stam burst through set pieces or the infamous Incap -> SA.
Finally, shields. Hardened Ward is not cheap. I'd have to look up the exact numbers but it costs around 2100 mag IIRC on my Sorc. Harness Magicka clocks in at around 2900 or something. You want to double that. Have fun playing on a noCP campaign with 35k total Magicka when one of you shields costs 4 to 6k.
It would be better to just delete the class on that case.
If Hardened Ward isn't cheap, then why can people still spam them non-stop even without going full into sustain gear?
And why does it instantly shield you from twice the damage that Vigor (which, btw, costs more than Hardened Ward) heals over 5 seconds?
These are balance issues, like it or not.
Strider_Roshin wrote: »Why no nerf to magicka sorcs?
Because whenever something critical of sorcerer is mentioned, the same fanatic forum sorcerers who have never even tried another class show up to defend their pet class with every alternative fact in their arsenal.
Nobody will deny a discussion based on solid arguments. The overwhelming majority of nerf Sorc whining is just having a nerf for the nerfs sake though. That's why people don't come up with a viable alternative. Take shield stacking, the forum poster child for perceived Sorc issues. Ok, take away shield stacking. What defensive mechanism would you give to Sorcs instead? Here is your chance at making a well rounded argument. I will be surprised if you get it done.
Oh may I chime in then?
Reduce the proc time of Mage's Fury to 2 seconds rather than 4. This way when someone gets auto-executed it's done a little more aggressively. Rather than the set it, and forget it style that we currently have.
Nerf haunting curse's damage by 30%, and replace Daedric Prey with the original Vicious Curse with no damage nerf. They'll nerf rearming trap's damage by 30% because it goes off twice, but not this? A bit inconsistent.
There needs to be no bonus damage given to proc'd Crystal frag. It hits VERY hard, it costs half as much, it CCs, and it's instant; there's no need for bonus damage.
A change to damage shields:
They need to get a huge cost increase. Blocking stops stam regen, and you lose a chunk of stamina every half second while blocking an aggressor. And it mitigates 50% of damage received against almost every attack in the game.
Dodge rolling mitigates all damage from an ever decreasing list of abilities that can actually be dodged in this game; however it gets a 33% increase in cost penalty for repeat uses with 4 seconds of the previous dodge roll
Damage shields, like dodge rolling mitigate all damage. However unlock dodge rolling it can actually work against every ability in the game (bleed damage being an exception). And unlike blocking, and dodge rolling damage shields continue to work even while CC'd. Yet they are the least punishing on your resources out of the 3 defense mechanics. This is incredibly unbalanced, and therefore they need to be much more expensive. Doubling the cost might actually be a balanced increase. Especially considering how much easier it is to manage resources when playing magicka in comparison to stamina.
These suggestions are so bad I don't know if you're trolling or if you think that would be balanced.
I could maybe get behind shortening the pre execute of endless fury. It would reduce burst, and timing burst is already not easy. Because that super frag proc you mentioned is a projectile that's one of the easiest to avoid if you're not a) close range or b) the target is occupied elsewhere and inattentive. Also the bonus damage was already reduced by 10% last patches.
Nerfing curse again would take away burst. Burst you successfully have to line up over 3 abilities. Compare that to stam burst through set pieces or the infamous Incap -> SA.
Finally, shields. Hardened Ward is not cheap. I'd have to look up the exact numbers but it costs around 2100 mag IIRC on my Sorc. Harness Magicka clocks in at around 2900 or something. You want to double that. Have fun playing on a noCP campaign with 35k total Magicka when one of you shields costs 4 to 6k.
It would be better to just delete the class on that case.
If Hardened Ward isn't cheap, then why can people still spam them non-stop even without going full into sustain gear?
And why does it instantly shield you from twice the damage that Vigor (which, btw, costs more than Hardened Ward) heals over 5 seconds?
These are balance issues, like it or not.
Strider_Roshin wrote: »Why no nerf to magicka sorcs?
Because whenever something critical of sorcerer is mentioned, the same fanatic forum sorcerers who have never even tried another class show up to defend their pet class with every alternative fact in their arsenal.
Nobody will deny a discussion based on solid arguments. The overwhelming majority of nerf Sorc whining is just having a nerf for the nerfs sake though. That's why people don't come up with a viable alternative. Take shield stacking, the forum poster child for perceived Sorc issues. Ok, take away shield stacking. What defensive mechanism would you give to Sorcs instead? Here is your chance at making a well rounded argument. I will be surprised if you get it done.
Oh may I chime in then?
Reduce the proc time of Mage's Fury to 2 seconds rather than 4. This way when someone gets auto-executed it's done a little more aggressively. Rather than the set it, and forget it style that we currently have.
Nerf haunting curse's damage by 30%, and replace Daedric Prey with the original Vicious Curse with no damage nerf. They'll nerf rearming trap's damage by 30% because it goes off twice, but not this? A bit inconsistent.
There needs to be no bonus damage given to proc'd Crystal frag. It hits VERY hard, it costs half as much, it CCs, and it's instant; there's no need for bonus damage.
A change to damage shields:
They need to get a huge cost increase. Blocking stops stam regen, and you lose a chunk of stamina every half second while blocking an aggressor. And it mitigates 50% of damage received against almost every attack in the game.
Dodge rolling mitigates all damage from an ever decreasing list of abilities that can actually be dodged in this game; however it gets a 33% increase in cost penalty for repeat uses with 4 seconds of the previous dodge roll
Damage shields, like dodge rolling mitigate all damage. However unlock dodge rolling it can actually work against every ability in the game (bleed damage being an exception). And unlike blocking, and dodge rolling damage shields continue to work even while CC'd. Yet they are the least punishing on your resources out of the 3 defense mechanics. This is incredibly unbalanced, and therefore they need to be much more expensive. Doubling the cost might actually be a balanced increase. Especially considering how much easier it is to manage resources when playing magicka in comparison to stamina.
These suggestions are so bad I don't know if you're trolling or if you think that would be balanced.
I could maybe get behind shortening the pre execute of endless fury. It would reduce burst, and timing burst is already not easy. Because that super frag proc you mentioned is a projectile that's one of the easiest to avoid if you're not a) close range or b) the target is occupied elsewhere and inattentive. Also the bonus damage was already reduced by 10% last patches.
Nerfing curse again would take away burst. Burst you successfully have to line up over 3 abilities. Compare that to stam burst through set pieces or the infamous Incap -> SA.
Finally, shields. Hardened Ward is not cheap. I'd have to look up the exact numbers but it costs around 2100 mag IIRC on my Sorc. Harness Magicka clocks in at around 2900 or something. You want to double that. Have fun playing on a noCP campaign with 35k total Magicka when one of you shields costs 4 to 6k.
It would be better to just delete the class on that case.
If Hardened Ward isn't cheap, then why can people still spam them non-stop even without going full into sustain gear?
And why does it instantly shield you from twice the damage that Vigor (which, btw, costs more than Hardened Ward) heals over 5 seconds?
These are balance issues, like it or not.
A Sorc that spams Hardened Ward non stop is a) not attacking, b) out of Magicka very soon, and c) walking AP at least in noCP. Hardened Ward in noCP is around 7 to 12k. If you really push it with stacking mag and sacrificing abilities maybe 15k. That may seem much, but again - it's the only thing between our light armor and being dead. I get that people just want to one shot everything. But that's not healthy design.
Also that vigor heals for 11k over 5 seconds while you roll dodge, have shuffle on and possibly a rally heal incoming. Don't try to claim vigor is your only defense. Shields are.
Strider_Roshin wrote: »Why no nerf to magicka sorcs?
Because whenever something critical of sorcerer is mentioned, the same fanatic forum sorcerers who have never even tried another class show up to defend their pet class with every alternative fact in their arsenal.
Nobody will deny a discussion based on solid arguments. The overwhelming majority of nerf Sorc whining is just having a nerf for the nerfs sake though. That's why people don't come up with a viable alternative. Take shield stacking, the forum poster child for perceived Sorc issues. Ok, take away shield stacking. What defensive mechanism would you give to Sorcs instead? Here is your chance at making a well rounded argument. I will be surprised if you get it done.
Oh may I chime in then?
Reduce the proc time of Mage's Fury to 2 seconds rather than 4. This way when someone gets auto-executed it's done a little more aggressively. Rather than the set it, and forget it style that we currently have.
Nerf haunting curse's damage by 30%, and replace Daedric Prey with the original Vicious Curse with no damage nerf. They'll nerf rearming trap's damage by 30% because it goes off twice, but not this? A bit inconsistent.
There needs to be no bonus damage given to proc'd Crystal frag. It hits VERY hard, it costs half as much, it CCs, and it's instant; there's no need for bonus damage.
A change to damage shields:
They need to get a huge cost increase. Blocking stops stam regen, and you lose a chunk of stamina every half second while blocking an aggressor. And it mitigates 50% of damage received against almost every attack in the game.
Dodge rolling mitigates all damage from an ever decreasing list of abilities that can actually be dodged in this game; however it gets a 33% increase in cost penalty for repeat uses with 4 seconds of the previous dodge roll
Damage shields, like dodge rolling mitigate all damage. However unlock dodge rolling it can actually work against every ability in the game (bleed damage being an exception). And unlike blocking, and dodge rolling damage shields continue to work even while CC'd. Yet they are the least punishing on your resources out of the 3 defense mechanics. This is incredibly unbalanced, and therefore they need to be much more expensive. Doubling the cost might actually be a balanced increase. Especially considering how much easier it is to manage resources when playing magicka in comparison to stamina.
These suggestions are so bad I don't know if you're trolling or if you think that would be balanced.
I could maybe get behind shortening the pre execute of endless fury. It would reduce burst, and timing burst is already not easy. Because that super frag proc you mentioned is a projectile that's one of the easiest to avoid if you're not a) close range or b) the target is occupied elsewhere and inattentive. Also the bonus damage was already reduced by 10% last patches.
Nerfing curse again would take away burst. Burst you successfully have to line up over 3 abilities. Compare that to stam burst through set pieces or the infamous Incap -> SA.
Finally, shields. Hardened Ward is not cheap. I'd have to look up the exact numbers but it costs around 2100 mag IIRC on my Sorc. Harness Magicka clocks in at around 2900 or something. You want to double that. Have fun playing on a noCP campaign with 35k total Magicka when one of you shields costs 4 to 6k.
It would be better to just delete the class on that case.
If Hardened Ward isn't cheap, then why can people still spam them non-stop even without going full into sustain gear?
And why does it instantly shield you from twice the damage that Vigor (which, btw, costs more than Hardened Ward) heals over 5 seconds?
These are balance issues, like it or not.
That would be because you're not giving a particularly balanced view..
You have armour, you block - so the damage done to you is reduced, so vigour has less 'work' to do to make up for the damage you actually take. Shields take the full hit.
Also do shields help you recover from oblivion damage? Does Vigour?
Simple fact is that they are very different mechanics - and should stay that way. The worst thing Zos could do is to turn shields into a 'pre-heal' with all the same strengths and weaknesses as heals.. Game needs more diversity not more homogenisation.
Strider_Roshin wrote: »Why no nerf to magicka sorcs?
Because whenever something critical of sorcerer is mentioned, the same fanatic forum sorcerers who have never even tried another class show up to defend their pet class with every alternative fact in their arsenal.
Nobody will deny a discussion based on solid arguments. The overwhelming majority of nerf Sorc whining is just having a nerf for the nerfs sake though. That's why people don't come up with a viable alternative. Take shield stacking, the forum poster child for perceived Sorc issues. Ok, take away shield stacking. What defensive mechanism would you give to Sorcs instead? Here is your chance at making a well rounded argument. I will be surprised if you get it done.
Oh may I chime in then?
Reduce the proc time of Mage's Fury to 2 seconds rather than 4. This way when someone gets auto-executed it's done a little more aggressively. Rather than the set it, and forget it style that we currently have.
Nerf haunting curse's damage by 30%, and replace Daedric Prey with the original Vicious Curse with no damage nerf. They'll nerf rearming trap's damage by 30% because it goes off twice, but not this? A bit inconsistent.
There needs to be no bonus damage given to proc'd Crystal frag. It hits VERY hard, it costs half as much, it CCs, and it's instant; there's no need for bonus damage.
A change to damage shields:
They need to get a huge cost increase. Blocking stops stam regen, and you lose a chunk of stamina every half second while blocking an aggressor. And it mitigates 50% of damage received against almost every attack in the game.
Dodge rolling mitigates all damage from an ever decreasing list of abilities that can actually be dodged in this game; however it gets a 33% increase in cost penalty for repeat uses with 4 seconds of the previous dodge roll
Damage shields, like dodge rolling mitigate all damage. However unlock dodge rolling it can actually work against every ability in the game (bleed damage being an exception). And unlike blocking, and dodge rolling damage shields continue to work even while CC'd. Yet they are the least punishing on your resources out of the 3 defense mechanics. This is incredibly unbalanced, and therefore they need to be much more expensive. Doubling the cost might actually be a balanced increase. Especially considering how much easier it is to manage resources when playing magicka in comparison to stamina.
Why no nerf to magicka sorcs?
Because whenever something critical of sorcerer is mentioned, the same fanatic forum sorcerers who have never even tried another class show up to defend their pet class with every alternative fact in their arsenal.
Nobody will deny a discussion based on solid arguments. The overwhelming majority of nerf Sorc whining is just having a nerf for the nerfs sake though. That's why people don't come up with a viable alternative. Take shield stacking, the forum poster child for perceived Sorc issues. Ok, take away shield stacking. What defensive mechanism would you give to Sorcs instead? Here is your chance at making a well rounded argument. I will be surprised if you get it done.
Oh, I don't have a problem with shield stacking. I have a problem with the strength level of each individual shield.
1K magicka gives you roughly 500 points to shield strength (Harness or Dampen Magic) without counting any modifiers to that 1K magicka (of which there are plenty for magicka).
1K stamina gives you 37 health/second (or 185 health over 5 seconds) to Resolving Vigor.
Can you honestly claim this is balanced?
.
Wow all the stam pvpler really claim that stam has weak defense.
Dodge rolling is the best defensive mechanism in the game combine that with extrem strong hots and a passive dodge change and you have an extrem high defensive mechanism. The only problem stamina has is doesn't have a spam-able burst heal.
Shields are already quite expensive and last only 6 sec, the only problem i have with shields is the magica return of harness magica.
Fully stacked in weapon damage/stamina, my Vigor has a tooltip of 13146 over 5 seconds, or 2629/second. This is halved in PvP of course and affected further by things like Major/Minor Defile, so expect around 1k/second heals.
A normal medium armor user doesn't stack into weapon damage/stamina as much as I do, so I'd expect their heals to be closer to 600-700/second.
Meanwhile, a magicka user can instantly get a shield more than twice the strength of what Vigor returns over 5 seconds.
So much for "extremely strong heals".
And dodge rolling being the "best defensive mechanism in the game"?? You have to be kidding me.
Half the skills in the game ignore dodge roll entirely (all DoTs, Soul Assault, Birds, jbeam etc etc) and it has a stacking 33% modifier to it if you try to spam it. Dodge roll used to be one of the strongest defensive mechanisms - these days it's a joke.
Not that any of this matters - there's so much damage around that a medium armor stamina build can get instagibbed at any time, even with 7 Impen & 25k+ health - whatever heal you have going on doesn't matter when CC+frag+curse+execute land at the same time.
- Update 23Ice Furnace: This item set now grants Spell Damage, rather than Weapon Damage for the 4 piece bonus
Strider_Roshin wrote: »Why no nerf to magicka sorcs?
Because whenever something critical of sorcerer is mentioned, the same fanatic forum sorcerers who have never even tried another class show up to defend their pet class with every alternative fact in their arsenal.
Nobody will deny a discussion based on solid arguments. The overwhelming majority of nerf Sorc whining is just having a nerf for the nerfs sake though. That's why people don't come up with a viable alternative. Take shield stacking, the forum poster child for perceived Sorc issues. Ok, take away shield stacking. What defensive mechanism would you give to Sorcs instead? Here is your chance at making a well rounded argument. I will be surprised if you get it done.
Oh may I chime in then?
Reduce the proc time of Mage's Fury to 2 seconds rather than 4. This way when someone gets auto-executed it's done a little more aggressively. Rather than the set it, and forget it style that we currently have.
Nerf haunting curse's damage by 30%, and replace Daedric Prey with the original Vicious Curse with no damage nerf. They'll nerf rearming trap's damage by 30% because it goes off twice, but not this? A bit inconsistent.
There needs to be no bonus damage given to proc'd Crystal frag. It hits VERY hard, it costs half as much, it CCs, and it's instant; there's no need for bonus damage.
A change to damage shields:
They need to get a huge cost increase. Blocking stops stam regen, and you lose a chunk of stamina every half second while blocking an aggressor. And it mitigates 50% of damage received against almost every attack in the game.
Dodge rolling mitigates all damage from an ever decreasing list of abilities that can actually be dodged in this game; however it gets a 33% increase in cost penalty for repeat uses with 4 seconds of the previous dodge roll
Damage shields, like dodge rolling mitigate all damage. However unlock dodge rolling it can actually work against every ability in the game (bleed damage being an exception). And unlike blocking, and dodge rolling damage shields continue to work even while CC'd. Yet they are the least punishing on your resources out of the 3 defense mechanics. This is incredibly unbalanced, and therefore they need to be much more expensive. Doubling the cost might actually be a balanced increase. Especially considering how much easier it is to manage resources when playing magicka in comparison to stamina.
These suggestions are so bad I don't know if you're trolling or if you think that would be balanced.
I could maybe get behind shortening the pre execute of endless fury. It would reduce burst, and timing burst is already not easy. Because that super frag proc you mentioned is a projectile that's one of the easiest to avoid if you're not a) close range or b) the target is occupied elsewhere and inattentive. Also the bonus damage was already reduced by 10% last patches.
Nerfing curse again would take away burst. Burst you successfully have to line up over 3 abilities. Compare that to stam burst through set pieces or the infamous Incap -> SA.
Finally, shields. Hardened Ward is not cheap. I'd have to look up the exact numbers but it costs around 2100 mag IIRC on my Sorc. Harness Magicka clocks in at around 2900 or something. You want to double that. Have fun playing on a noCP campaign with 35k total Magicka when one of you shields costs 4 to 6k.
It would be better to just delete the class on that case.
If Hardened Ward isn't cheap, then why can people still spam them non-stop even without going full into sustain gear?
And why does it instantly shield you from twice the damage that Vigor (which, btw, costs more than Hardened Ward) heals over 5 seconds?
These are balance issues, like it or not.
A Sorc that spams Hardened Ward non stop is a) not attacking, b) out of Magicka very soon, and c) walking AP at least in noCP. Hardened Ward in noCP is around 7 to 12k. If you really push it with stacking mag and sacrificing abilities maybe 15k. That may seem much, but again - it's the only thing between our light armor and being dead. I get that people just want to one shot everything. But that's not healthy design.
Also that vigor heals for 11k over 5 seconds while you roll dodge, have shuffle on and possibly a rally heal incoming. Don't try to claim vigor is your only defense. Shields are.
And a stamina build that spams Vigor or Rally is only wasting his/her resources.
Yet, those heals you can cast only once every 5 seconds to get any benefit from are the only thing between medium armor and being dead (yes, I'm using your words) - because like it or not dodge roll (which you also can't spam) only prevents maybe half the damage (not even that vs wardens, whose direct damage is also undodgeable) in the game.
And shields aren't your only defense, you also have twilight pet to heal you and/or resto staff off bar.
Atleast try to remain factual please.Strider_Roshin wrote: »Why no nerf to magicka sorcs?
Because whenever something critical of sorcerer is mentioned, the same fanatic forum sorcerers who have never even tried another class show up to defend their pet class with every alternative fact in their arsenal.
Nobody will deny a discussion based on solid arguments. The overwhelming majority of nerf Sorc whining is just having a nerf for the nerfs sake though. That's why people don't come up with a viable alternative. Take shield stacking, the forum poster child for perceived Sorc issues. Ok, take away shield stacking. What defensive mechanism would you give to Sorcs instead? Here is your chance at making a well rounded argument. I will be surprised if you get it done.
Oh may I chime in then?
Reduce the proc time of Mage's Fury to 2 seconds rather than 4. This way when someone gets auto-executed it's done a little more aggressively. Rather than the set it, and forget it style that we currently have.
Nerf haunting curse's damage by 30%, and replace Daedric Prey with the original Vicious Curse with no damage nerf. They'll nerf rearming trap's damage by 30% because it goes off twice, but not this? A bit inconsistent.
There needs to be no bonus damage given to proc'd Crystal frag. It hits VERY hard, it costs half as much, it CCs, and it's instant; there's no need for bonus damage.
A change to damage shields:
They need to get a huge cost increase. Blocking stops stam regen, and you lose a chunk of stamina every half second while blocking an aggressor. And it mitigates 50% of damage received against almost every attack in the game.
Dodge rolling mitigates all damage from an ever decreasing list of abilities that can actually be dodged in this game; however it gets a 33% increase in cost penalty for repeat uses with 4 seconds of the previous dodge roll
Damage shields, like dodge rolling mitigate all damage. However unlock dodge rolling it can actually work against every ability in the game (bleed damage being an exception). And unlike blocking, and dodge rolling damage shields continue to work even while CC'd. Yet they are the least punishing on your resources out of the 3 defense mechanics. This is incredibly unbalanced, and therefore they need to be much more expensive. Doubling the cost might actually be a balanced increase. Especially considering how much easier it is to manage resources when playing magicka in comparison to stamina.
These suggestions are so bad I don't know if you're trolling or if you think that would be balanced.
I could maybe get behind shortening the pre execute of endless fury. It would reduce burst, and timing burst is already not easy. Because that super frag proc you mentioned is a projectile that's one of the easiest to avoid if you're not a) close range or b) the target is occupied elsewhere and inattentive. Also the bonus damage was already reduced by 10% last patches.
Nerfing curse again would take away burst. Burst you successfully have to line up over 3 abilities. Compare that to stam burst through set pieces or the infamous Incap -> SA.
Finally, shields. Hardened Ward is not cheap. I'd have to look up the exact numbers but it costs around 2100 mag IIRC on my Sorc. Harness Magicka clocks in at around 2900 or something. You want to double that. Have fun playing on a noCP campaign with 35k total Magicka when one of you shields costs 4 to 6k.
It would be better to just delete the class on that case.
If Hardened Ward isn't cheap, then why can people still spam them non-stop even without going full into sustain gear?
And why does it instantly shield you from twice the damage that Vigor (which, btw, costs more than Hardened Ward) heals over 5 seconds?
These are balance issues, like it or not.
That would be because you're not giving a particularly balanced view..
You have armour, you block - so the damage done to you is reduced, so vigour has less 'work' to do to make up for the damage you actually take. Shields take the full hit.
Also do shields help you recover from oblivion damage? Does Vigour?
Simple fact is that they are very different mechanics - and should stay that way. The worst thing Zos could do is to turn shields into a 'pre-heal' with all the same strengths and weaknesses as heals.. Game needs more diversity not more homogenisation.
You get 17% mitigation in medium armor - that's not much armor at all. And you sure as hell can't block as a medium armor user and expect to have any stamina left.
Shields may take the full hit, but they also prevent crits from happening (which can be up to 70-80% damage reduced, compare that to the 17% mitigation).
What ZOS needs to do is balance the game, nothing else.
The hoops people will jump through to defend their easy mode sorc.....
1 or 2 of the below depending
Either tone down shields to 6-8 seconds (like every other class) or tone down frags big time.
And
Dark conversion needs to be reworked so that it's more of an overtime return. The skill should be proactive and not reactive.
Strider_Roshin wrote: »Why no nerf to magicka sorcs?
Because whenever something critical of sorcerer is mentioned, the same fanatic forum sorcerers who have never even tried another class show up to defend their pet class with every alternative fact in their arsenal.
Nobody will deny a discussion based on solid arguments. The overwhelming majority of nerf Sorc whining is just having a nerf for the nerfs sake though. That's why people don't come up with a viable alternative. Take shield stacking, the forum poster child for perceived Sorc issues. Ok, take away shield stacking. What defensive mechanism would you give to Sorcs instead? Here is your chance at making a well rounded argument. I will be surprised if you get it done.
Oh may I chime in then?
Reduce the proc time of Mage's Fury to 2 seconds rather than 4. This way when someone gets auto-executed it's done a little more aggressively. Rather than the set it, and forget it style that we currently have.
Nerf haunting curse's damage by 30%, and replace Daedric Prey with the original Vicious Curse with no damage nerf. They'll nerf rearming trap's damage by 30% because it goes off twice, but not this? A bit inconsistent.
There needs to be no bonus damage given to proc'd Crystal frag. It hits VERY hard, it costs half as much, it CCs, and it's instant; there's no need for bonus damage.
A change to damage shields:
They need to get a huge cost increase. Blocking stops stam regen, and you lose a chunk of stamina every half second while blocking an aggressor. And it mitigates 50% of damage received against almost every attack in the game.
Dodge rolling mitigates all damage from an ever decreasing list of abilities that can actually be dodged in this game; however it gets a 33% increase in cost penalty for repeat uses with 4 seconds of the previous dodge roll
Damage shields, like dodge rolling mitigate all damage. However unlock dodge rolling it can actually work against every ability in the game (bleed damage being an exception). And unlike blocking, and dodge rolling damage shields continue to work even while CC'd. Yet they are the least punishing on your resources out of the 3 defense mechanics. This is incredibly unbalanced, and therefore they need to be much more expensive. Doubling the cost might actually be a balanced increase. Especially considering how much easier it is to manage resources when playing magicka in comparison to stamina.
Just for the sake of the argument, shields do not mitigate all damage. Shields mitigate as much raw(no crits, but no spell/physical resist either) damage as a shield has points. 10k shield will mitigate 10k damage. If you're hit by 2 10k attacks at the same time while having a shield up, the second 10k will land right home. If you roll dodge these 2 attacks you will avoid both - if they're dodgeable. And I do feel they should cut the undodgeable unblockable crap, removing counterplay is just silly.
Now if you're being attacked by several people at once and are being hit with 5+ attacks at once...yeah...somehow dodging seems a lot more fascinating all of a sudden.Why no nerf to magicka sorcs?
Because whenever something critical of sorcerer is mentioned, the same fanatic forum sorcerers who have never even tried another class show up to defend their pet class with every alternative fact in their arsenal.
Nobody will deny a discussion based on solid arguments. The overwhelming majority of nerf Sorc whining is just having a nerf for the nerfs sake though. That's why people don't come up with a viable alternative. Take shield stacking, the forum poster child for perceived Sorc issues. Ok, take away shield stacking. What defensive mechanism would you give to Sorcs instead? Here is your chance at making a well rounded argument. I will be surprised if you get it done.
Oh, I don't have a problem with shield stacking. I have a problem with the strength level of each individual shield.
1K magicka gives you roughly 500 points to shield strength (Harness or Dampen Magic) without counting any modifiers to that 1K magicka (of which there are plenty for magicka).
1K stamina gives you 37 health/second (or 185 health over 5 seconds) to Resolving Vigor.
Can you honestly claim this is balanced?
.
Just curious - how does Vigor scale with weapon damage and crit? Admittedly I don't play stamina. I can tell you that shields ignore spelldamage fully and completely though(and they obviously can't crit) however. You've only mention half of the equation, let's bring out the other half too.
Strider_Roshin wrote: »Why no nerf to magicka sorcs?
Because whenever something critical of sorcerer is mentioned, the same fanatic forum sorcerers who have never even tried another class show up to defend their pet class with every alternative fact in their arsenal.
Nobody will deny a discussion based on solid arguments. The overwhelming majority of nerf Sorc whining is just having a nerf for the nerfs sake though. That's why people don't come up with a viable alternative. Take shield stacking, the forum poster child for perceived Sorc issues. Ok, take away shield stacking. What defensive mechanism would you give to Sorcs instead? Here is your chance at making a well rounded argument. I will be surprised if you get it done.
Oh may I chime in then?
Reduce the proc time of Mage's Fury to 2 seconds rather than 4. This way when someone gets auto-executed it's done a little more aggressively. Rather than the set it, and forget it style that we currently have.
Nerf haunting curse's damage by 30%, and replace Daedric Prey with the original Vicious Curse with no damage nerf. They'll nerf rearming trap's damage by 30% because it goes off twice, but not this? A bit inconsistent.
There needs to be no bonus damage given to proc'd Crystal frag. It hits VERY hard, it costs half as much, it CCs, and it's instant; there's no need for bonus damage.
A change to damage shields:
They need to get a huge cost increase. Blocking stops stam regen, and you lose a chunk of stamina every half second while blocking an aggressor. And it mitigates 50% of damage received against almost every attack in the game.
Dodge rolling mitigates all damage from an ever decreasing list of abilities that can actually be dodged in this game; however it gets a 33% increase in cost penalty for repeat uses with 4 seconds of the previous dodge roll
Damage shields, like dodge rolling mitigate all damage. However unlock dodge rolling it can actually work against every ability in the game (bleed damage being an exception). And unlike blocking, and dodge rolling damage shields continue to work even while CC'd. Yet they are the least punishing on your resources out of the 3 defense mechanics. This is incredibly unbalanced, and therefore they need to be much more expensive. Doubling the cost might actually be a balanced increase. Especially considering how much easier it is to manage resources when playing magicka in comparison to stamina.
These suggestions are so bad I don't know if you're trolling or if you think that would be balanced.
I could maybe get behind shortening the pre execute of endless fury. It would reduce burst, and timing burst is already not easy. Because that super frag proc you mentioned is a projectile that's one of the easiest to avoid if you're not a) close range or b) the target is occupied elsewhere and inattentive. Also the bonus damage was already reduced by 10% last patches.
Nerfing curse again would take away burst. Burst you successfully have to line up over 3 abilities. Compare that to stam burst through set pieces or the infamous Incap -> SA.
Finally, shields. Hardened Ward is not cheap. I'd have to look up the exact numbers but it costs around 2100 mag IIRC on my Sorc. Harness Magicka clocks in at around 2900 or something. You want to double that. Have fun playing on a noCP campaign with 35k total Magicka when one of you shields costs 4 to 6k.
It would be better to just delete the class on that case.
If Hardened Ward isn't cheap, then why can people still spam them non-stop even without going full into sustain gear?
And why does it instantly shield you from twice the damage that Vigor (which, btw, costs more than Hardened Ward) heals over 5 seconds?
These are balance issues, like it or not.
A Sorc that spams Hardened Ward non stop is a) not attacking, b) out of Magicka very soon, and c) walking AP at least in noCP. Hardened Ward in noCP is around 7 to 12k. If you really push it with stacking mag and sacrificing abilities maybe 15k. That may seem much, but again - it's the only thing between our light armor and being dead. I get that people just want to one shot everything. But that's not healthy design.
Also that vigor heals for 11k over 5 seconds while you roll dodge, have shuffle on and possibly a rally heal incoming. Don't try to claim vigor is your only defense. Shields are.
And a stamina build that spams Vigor or Rally is only wasting his/her resources.
Yet, those heals you can cast only once every 5 seconds to get any benefit from are the only thing between medium armor and being dead (yes, I'm using your words) - because like it or not dodge roll (which you also can't spam) only prevents maybe half the damage (not even that vs wardens, whose direct damage is also undodgeable) in the game.
And shields aren't your only defense, you also have twilight pet to heal you and/or resto staff off bar.
Atleast try to remain factual please.Strider_Roshin wrote: »Why no nerf to magicka sorcs?
Because whenever something critical of sorcerer is mentioned, the same fanatic forum sorcerers who have never even tried another class show up to defend their pet class with every alternative fact in their arsenal.
Nobody will deny a discussion based on solid arguments. The overwhelming majority of nerf Sorc whining is just having a nerf for the nerfs sake though. That's why people don't come up with a viable alternative. Take shield stacking, the forum poster child for perceived Sorc issues. Ok, take away shield stacking. What defensive mechanism would you give to Sorcs instead? Here is your chance at making a well rounded argument. I will be surprised if you get it done.
Oh may I chime in then?
Reduce the proc time of Mage's Fury to 2 seconds rather than 4. This way when someone gets auto-executed it's done a little more aggressively. Rather than the set it, and forget it style that we currently have.
Nerf haunting curse's damage by 30%, and replace Daedric Prey with the original Vicious Curse with no damage nerf. They'll nerf rearming trap's damage by 30% because it goes off twice, but not this? A bit inconsistent.
There needs to be no bonus damage given to proc'd Crystal frag. It hits VERY hard, it costs half as much, it CCs, and it's instant; there's no need for bonus damage.
A change to damage shields:
They need to get a huge cost increase. Blocking stops stam regen, and you lose a chunk of stamina every half second while blocking an aggressor. And it mitigates 50% of damage received against almost every attack in the game.
Dodge rolling mitigates all damage from an ever decreasing list of abilities that can actually be dodged in this game; however it gets a 33% increase in cost penalty for repeat uses with 4 seconds of the previous dodge roll
Damage shields, like dodge rolling mitigate all damage. However unlock dodge rolling it can actually work against every ability in the game (bleed damage being an exception). And unlike blocking, and dodge rolling damage shields continue to work even while CC'd. Yet they are the least punishing on your resources out of the 3 defense mechanics. This is incredibly unbalanced, and therefore they need to be much more expensive. Doubling the cost might actually be a balanced increase. Especially considering how much easier it is to manage resources when playing magicka in comparison to stamina.
These suggestions are so bad I don't know if you're trolling or if you think that would be balanced.
I could maybe get behind shortening the pre execute of endless fury. It would reduce burst, and timing burst is already not easy. Because that super frag proc you mentioned is a projectile that's one of the easiest to avoid if you're not a) close range or b) the target is occupied elsewhere and inattentive. Also the bonus damage was already reduced by 10% last patches.
Nerfing curse again would take away burst. Burst you successfully have to line up over 3 abilities. Compare that to stam burst through set pieces or the infamous Incap -> SA.
Finally, shields. Hardened Ward is not cheap. I'd have to look up the exact numbers but it costs around 2100 mag IIRC on my Sorc. Harness Magicka clocks in at around 2900 or something. You want to double that. Have fun playing on a noCP campaign with 35k total Magicka when one of you shields costs 4 to 6k.
It would be better to just delete the class on that case.
If Hardened Ward isn't cheap, then why can people still spam them non-stop even without going full into sustain gear?
And why does it instantly shield you from twice the damage that Vigor (which, btw, costs more than Hardened Ward) heals over 5 seconds?
These are balance issues, like it or not.
That would be because you're not giving a particularly balanced view..
You have armour, you block - so the damage done to you is reduced, so vigour has less 'work' to do to make up for the damage you actually take. Shields take the full hit.
Also do shields help you recover from oblivion damage? Does Vigour?
Simple fact is that they are very different mechanics - and should stay that way. The worst thing Zos could do is to turn shields into a 'pre-heal' with all the same strengths and weaknesses as heals.. Game needs more diversity not more homogenisation.
You get 17% mitigation in medium armor - that's not much armor at all. And you sure as hell can't block as a medium armor user and expect to have any stamina left.
Shields may take the full hit, but they also prevent crits from happening (which can be up to 70-80% damage reduced, compare that to the 17% mitigation).
What ZOS needs to do is balance the game, nothing else.
Whether you choose medium over heavy or a roll-dodge build over a block build is your choice. Either gives its own defences to help those ticks along while reducing incoming. Vigour is VERY strong in a heavy-armour, block-focussed build.
Yes, shields do prevent crits from happening, but can Vigour not also crit itself?
fwiw, against a GOOD med-armour stamblade, my sorc gets run out of magica while being unable to land a single full burst on him, and his vigour easily takes care of the odd curse that lands. Potatoes don't see that though, they usually don't recognise when to block/dodge the most telegraphed burst in-game, then wonder how their opponent can hit so hard without running out of juice..
1 or 2 of the below depending
Either tone down shields to 6-8 seconds (like every other class) or tone down frags big time.
And
Dark conversion needs to be reworked so that it's more of an overtime return. The skill should be proactive and not reactive.
Err.. I'm not sure how to say this.
Shields are already 6 seconds.
Frags has just been toned down by 10% If you still want more, just install Miat's - they'll never hit you again.
Dark Conversion has also just been nerfed with an added 0.4 seconds to its cast time.. Doesn't sound much - but just try using it in combat!
Strider_Roshin wrote: »Why no nerf to magicka sorcs?
Because whenever something critical of sorcerer is mentioned, the same fanatic forum sorcerers who have never even tried another class show up to defend their pet class with every alternative fact in their arsenal.
Nobody will deny a discussion based on solid arguments. The overwhelming majority of nerf Sorc whining is just having a nerf for the nerfs sake though. That's why people don't come up with a viable alternative. Take shield stacking, the forum poster child for perceived Sorc issues. Ok, take away shield stacking. What defensive mechanism would you give to Sorcs instead? Here is your chance at making a well rounded argument. I will be surprised if you get it done.
Oh may I chime in then?
Reduce the proc time of Mage's Fury to 2 seconds rather than 4. This way when someone gets auto-executed it's done a little more aggressively. Rather than the set it, and forget it style that we currently have.
Nerf haunting curse's damage by 30%, and replace Daedric Prey with the original Vicious Curse with no damage nerf. They'll nerf rearming trap's damage by 30% because it goes off twice, but not this? A bit inconsistent.
There needs to be no bonus damage given to proc'd Crystal frag. It hits VERY hard, it costs half as much, it CCs, and it's instant; there's no need for bonus damage.
A change to damage shields:
They need to get a huge cost increase. Blocking stops stam regen, and you lose a chunk of stamina every half second while blocking an aggressor. And it mitigates 50% of damage received against almost every attack in the game.
Dodge rolling mitigates all damage from an ever decreasing list of abilities that can actually be dodged in this game; however it gets a 33% increase in cost penalty for repeat uses with 4 seconds of the previous dodge roll
Damage shields, like dodge rolling mitigate all damage. However unlock dodge rolling it can actually work against every ability in the game (bleed damage being an exception). And unlike blocking, and dodge rolling damage shields continue to work even while CC'd. Yet they are the least punishing on your resources out of the 3 defense mechanics. This is incredibly unbalanced, and therefore they need to be much more expensive. Doubling the cost might actually be a balanced increase. Especially considering how much easier it is to manage resources when playing magicka in comparison to stamina.
It's the combination of the 4
1. Great burst that does not rely on proc sets
2. A shield that when paired with bastion CP allows you to preload your defense
3. Being able to easily streak across hard to navigate gaps
4. Dark conversion being able to a reactionary and instant skill (acting like a strong 2nd potion) rather than being an overtime and proactive skill.
- Update 23Ice Furnace: This item set now grants Spell Damage, rather than Weapon Damage for the 4 piece bonus
It's the combination of the 4
1. Great burst that does not rely on proc sets
2. A shield that when paired with bastion CP allows you to preload your defense
3. Being able to easily streak across hard to navigate gaps
4. Dark conversion being able to a reactionary and instant skill (acting like a strong 2nd potion) rather than being an overtime and proactive skill.