Viper, Tremorscale and Selene are the problem, not procsets in general

olsborg

Those are the worst ones, yes, but other proccsets such as valkyn etc are also over performing imo.

GreenSoup2HoT

Kay1 wrote: »

Magıc wrote: »

Kay1 wrote: »

People arguing about nerfing proc sets...

They don't need a direct nerf, just nerf the amount of proc sets you can use, 1 should be the limit.

Some are broken either way. RM on mag sorc is awful to play against for example.

Red Mountain on Magsorc lmao, that's some *** build to be honest and I'm sure the sorc is making enough sacrifices so the proc is alright even if it deal 10k procs he can't survive.

Go youtube blobseso newest sorc build. it uses red mountain and he specifically made it because it was op and wants the set nerfed. you dont sacrifice anything when your proc'ing a 10k proc every 2-3 seconds.

Feanor

Enslaved wrote: »

Selene can be dodged. Viper needs no telegraph, it simply hits every 4 seconds.
Pro tip - use evasion, roll dodge or simply block, if stamina user. CCing helps as well. If magicka user, spam shields.

So you're saying the choice as mag char is either dying or being called a f*****g shield stacker potatoe. Sounds balanced.

Hempyre

Koensol wrote: »

Enslaved wrote: »

Selene can be dodged. Viper needs no telegraph, it simply hits every 4 seconds.
Pro tip - use evasion, roll dodge or simply block, if stamina user. CCing helps as well. If magicka user, spam shields.

No *** sherlock. But at one point in the fight you will get cc'ed, and when you do and that stuff procs, you are either dead or within execute range.

And why shouldn't you die? You got cc'd and didn't break... , Didn't have enough stam, whatev.

I fail to see the issue with bad play causing death..

Please enlighten.

Magıc

Kay1 wrote: »

Magıc wrote: »

Kay1 wrote: »

People arguing about nerfing proc sets...

They don't need a direct nerf, just nerf the amount of proc sets you can use, 1 should be the limit.

Some are broken either way. RM on mag sorc is awful to play against for example.

Red Mountain on Magsorc lmao, that's some *** build to be honest and I'm sure the sorc is making enough sacrifices so the proc is alright even if it deal 10k procs he can't survive.

4k procs every 2s is what it deals. It has 30-40% chanc to proc every 2 seconds thanks to crushing shock hitting 3 times with a light weave. It's not sacrificing anything. You swap out a damage set for red mountain, infinite stam sustain and you already got your mag sustain sorted with your secondary set.

Then there is RM on DW builds. Now that is a true terror.

Ch4mpTW

leepalmer95 wrote: »

Viper
Selene
Tremorscale
Red mountain
Skoria
Grothdarr


are the problem

Can we not blanket nerf everything and kill sets like winterborn off please?

Now wait a second. Grothdarr is fine, if looking at things from a PvE perspective. Skoria as well. Please do not go saying things like that, and having PvE players (mainly MagDK's and MagPlars) get pseudo-nerfed from things over-performing in a PvP environment. That's how a lot of this mess got started to begin with. ZOS hurting PvE, from things going on in PvP.

Rowjoh

I don't know what all the fuss is about.

I prefer running buff sets to proc sets as they are more effective and the few deaths I get are almost always down to my mistakes or loss of concentration, not the result of proc-sets.

Sey Sin

Magıc

Ch4mpTW wrote: »

leepalmer95 wrote: »

Viper
Selene
Tremorscale
Red mountain
Skoria
Grothdarr


are the problem

Can we not blanket nerf everything and kill sets like winterborn off please?

Now wait a second. Grothdarr is fine, if looking at things from a PvE perspective. Skoria as well. Please do not go saying things like that, and having PvE players (mainly MagDK's and MagPlars) get pseudo-nerfed from things over-performing in a PvP environment. That's how a lot of this mess got started to begin with. ZOS hurting PvE, from things going on in PvP.

Skoria isn't fine in PvP though, no matter how many. Grothdar is iffy, it's too strong in GvG but not so good small scale.

Ch4mpTW

Magıc wrote: »

Ch4mpTW wrote: »

leepalmer95 wrote: »

Viper
Selene
Tremorscale
Red mountain
Skoria
Grothdarr


are the problem

Can we not blanket nerf everything and kill sets like winterborn off please?

Now wait a second. Grothdarr is fine, if looking at things from a PvE perspective. Skoria as well. Please do not go saying things like that, and having PvE players (mainly MagDK's and MagPlars) get pseudo-nerfed from things over-performing in a PvP environment. That's how a lot of this mess got started to begin with. ZOS hurting PvE, from things going on in PvP.

Skoria isn't fine in PvP though, no matter how many. Grothdar is iffy, it's too strong in GvG but not so good small scale.

So is your suggestion that it be nerfed, and then have a viable alternative to Grothdarr be hit? Thus causing pretty much the only alternative MagPlars and MagDK's have a monster set in PvE go and get hit? All because we both know ZOS refuses to balance things from PvE and PvP separately? If so, I ask you how much more must my MagPlar and MagDK take nerfs? When is enough actually enough?

IcyDeadPeople

GreenSoup2HoT wrote: »

IcyDeadPeople wrote: »

Yes, Anne you make a very good point. Nobody is complaining about Ashen Grip or Song of Lamae on their death recap.

Most of the proc sets are pretty crappy actually, only a few are overperforming. And there are a lot of these sets that proc damage shield, healing or other effects.

No need to nerf everything in this game with proc component, simply adjust the specific sets like Selene and Viper that might benefit from slight damage reduction

Just reducing the damage of proc sets doesn't fix the problem. Problem being it doesn't matter what stats you have to obtain this damage. For example i could have 100% of my character spec'd into health and still use viper + seleane and be granted 12k proc damage in pvp every 4 seconds with 0 actual tooltip damage on my abilities.

Scaling is the best option.


Edit: Better yet i could use my literal fists. No weapons at all and kill people with proc sets.

I don't quite understand when you say they don't scale at all. These deal poison and physical damage, so they should be scaling on your weapon damage, max stamina and mighty CP etc., no?

At any rate you are a lot less likely to see Ashen Grip and Death's Wind on your death recap because the base damage for these sets is much lower.

If Viper and Selene is overperforming, why not simply reduce the base damage of Viper and Selene (or adjust their proc chance).

Sheva I 7 I

agreed, the problem can be solved by making selenes drop as a 2 piece jewelery set, so I can wear all 3

Bryong9ub17_ESO

All im going to say is all of you PvP cry babies are ruining it for us PvE players.

Ahzek

IcyDeadPeople wrote: »

GreenSoup2HoT wrote: »

IcyDeadPeople wrote: »

Yes, Anne you make a very good point. Nobody is complaining about Ashen Grip or Song of Lamae on their death recap.

Most of the proc sets are pretty crappy actually, only a few are overperforming. And there are a lot of these sets that proc damage shield, healing or other effects.

No need to nerf everything in this game with proc component, simply adjust the specific sets like Selene and Viper that might benefit from slight damage reduction

Just reducing the damage of proc sets doesn't fix the problem. Problem being it doesn't matter what stats you have to obtain this damage. For example i could have 100% of my character spec'd into health and still use viper + seleane and be granted 12k proc damage in pvp every 4 seconds with 0 actual tooltip damage on my abilities.

Scaling is the best option.


Edit: Better yet i could use my literal fists. No weapons at all and kill people with proc sets.

I don't quite understand when you say they don't scale at all. These deal poison and physical damage, so they should be scaling on your weapon damage, max stamina and mighty CP etc., no?

At any rate you are a lot less likely to see Ashen Grip and Death's Wind on your death recap because the base damage for these sets is much lower.

If Viper and Selene is overperforming, why not simply reduce the base damage of Viper and Selene (or adjust their proc chance).

Item based proccs do not scale with player stats (stam+ wep dmg for example) but they do scale with %dmg boni (Berserk buff, CP), which is why they are so powerful on tanky/ no CP builds.

SilverWF

Anne_Firehawk wrote: »

I am afraid that in an order to fix the sets named above, ZOS will absolutely destroy those sets which are fairly balanced right now. Skoria, Nerien'eth and Grothdarr and even Red Mountain are all examples on how procsets should work.

WHAT?
Move along, boy.

Kay1

GreenSoup2HoT wrote: »

Kay1 wrote: »

Magıc wrote: »

Kay1 wrote: »

People arguing about nerfing proc sets...

They don't need a direct nerf, just nerf the amount of proc sets you can use, 1 should be the limit.

Some are broken either way. RM on mag sorc is awful to play against for example.

Red Mountain on Magsorc lmao, that's some *** build to be honest and I'm sure the sorc is making enough sacrifices so the proc is alright even if it deal 10k procs he can't survive.

Go youtube blobseso newest sorc build. it uses red mountain and he specifically made it because it was op and wants the set nerfed. you dont sacrifice anything when your proc'ing a 10k proc every 2-3 seconds.

I still think it's ***, there's better options, I am not a fan of proc sets because I don't need them and especially on Sorcs, Templars and Sorcs don't need damage in PvP, you can go for 2 sustain/defensives sets at the same time and you still high damage, that build might be good against pugs but against a good player he will get destroyed.

Magıc wrote: »

Kay1 wrote: »

Magıc wrote: »

Kay1 wrote: »

People arguing about nerfing proc sets...

They don't need a direct nerf, just nerf the amount of proc sets you can use, 1 should be the limit.

Some are broken either way. RM on mag sorc is awful to play against for example.

Red Mountain on Magsorc lmao, that's some *** build to be honest and I'm sure the sorc is making enough sacrifices so the proc is alright even if it deal 10k procs he can't survive.

4k procs every 2s is what it deals. It has 30-40% chanc to proc every 2 seconds thanks to crushing shock hitting 3 times with a light weave. It's not sacrificing anything. You swap out a damage set for red mountain, infinite stam sustain and you already got your mag sustain sorted with your secondary set.

Then there is RM on DW builds. Now that is a true terror.

Not worthy you loose too much magicka, yeah I know Dark Deal, but thats not going to work against a player who knows how to bash, especially someone who knows how to bash weaving.

SilverWF

Kay1 wrote: »

I still think it's ***, there's better options, I am not a fan of proc sets because I don't need them and especially on Sorcs, Templars and Sorcs don't need damage in PvP, you can go for 2 sustain/defensives sets at the same time and you still high damage, that build might be good against pugs but against a good player he will get destroyed

No body cares about your damage - this isn't PVE to sustain high DPS for a long time.
There you must kill as fast as possible, to not allow target react (dodge, hide, heal etc). Proc set allows you to do that with minimum efforts.
Red Mountain sharpened inferno staff already costs as similar War Maiden ones

Asardes

As I said on another topic damage proc sets should scale the same as skills:
1) Physical, poison and disease damage should scale on your weapon damage and maximum stamina while magical and elemental damage should scale on your spell damage and maximum magicka, as well as various class bonuses (damage already scales with CP invested in those stars so the change won't be that radical). Also sets that provide magic bonuses should always do magic or elemental damage and those who provide physical bonuses should always do physical/disease/poison damage. Some sets will need to be changed (ex. Red Mountain should be changed from flame damage to disease damage, which is also pretty lore friendly)
2) They should also also allow them to critically hit, based on either your weapon or spell critical, depending on damage type
3) Base damage output with maximum achievable stats should be ~20% less than it is now (ex. Valkyn Skoria would hit for 7.5K only if you have 3K spell damage and 45K magicka)
4) Add a PC cooldown, meaning the cooldown for a given set is calculated based on your previous proc, even if it's from another set (ex. if Selene procced, Viper won't be able to proc for another 4s and vice versa)

As a result:
1) Characters that don't stack max stats corresponding to the type of damage produced by the respective sets will get very low damage out of it (ex. tanks will hit like a wet noodle with Tremorscale, and sorcs will only gimp themselves using Red Mountain)
2) Because they will be able to score critical hits, sets will now be more useful in PvE as well, just like they were before Homestead, and with a high critical build they will provide higher overall damage, even if the base damage is lowered.
3+4) people won't be able to rely on their proc sets to such a large extent to burst, and certain proc set combos won't work as well together.

Kay1

SilverWF wrote: »

Kay1 wrote: »

I still think it's ***, there's better options, I am not a fan of proc sets because I don't need them and especially on Sorcs, Templars and Sorcs don't need damage in PvP, you can go for 2 sustain/defensives sets at the same time and you still high damage, that build might be good against pugs but against a good player he will get destroyed

No body cares about your damage - this isn't PVE to sustain high DPS for a long time.
There you must kill as fast as possible, to not allow target react (dodge, hide, heal etc). Proc set allows you to do that with minimum efforts.
Red Mountain sharpened inferno staff already costs as similar War Maiden ones

I know, that's what I said and I already kill every single player with minimum effort without proc sets.

vyndral13preub18_ESO

All I know is that when I am loaded up with proc sets, I kill people. That doesn't normally happen... so something doesn't seem right.

ParaNostram

To all of ya'll saying "well I still see ____ set!" I have an important question for you... What do you usually see on a death recap? That's right, viper, selene, tremorscale.

Koensol

Hempyre wrote: »

Koensol wrote: »

Enslaved wrote: »

Selene can be dodged. Viper needs no telegraph, it simply hits every 4 seconds.
Pro tip - use evasion, roll dodge or simply block, if stamina user. CCing helps as well. If magicka user, spam shields.

No *** sherlock. But at one point in the fight you will get cc'ed, and when you do and that stuff procs, you are either dead or within execute range.

And why shouldn't you die? You got cc'd and didn't break... , Didn't have enough stam, whatev.

I fail to see the issue with bad play causing death..

Please enlighten.

Lol, tell me how and WHEN I should CC break when I get hit from incap (stun) which immediately procs viper and selene. Please enlighten?

But don't tell me I should be able to dodge/block EVERY attack thrown at me. It is bs. At one point you will take a hit. And 1 hit shouldn't mean going from 100% to 25% or less. Period.

And bad play? Pfff how ironic. Proc sets are just that: a solution for bad players to be able to kill others. Its utter cheese mode. Combat should be about skill not rng.

Krayzie

lol@ all the times I've killed tanks only to be killed by their valkyn skoria after they've died

Ballzy321

My prob is nbs incap get stunned selenes execute if needed. I wish I could have immovables up all the time just not the case. Hard to dodge a nb in non cp.

Hempyre

Koensol wrote: »

Hempyre wrote: »

Koensol wrote: »

Enslaved wrote: »

Selene can be dodged. Viper needs no telegraph, it simply hits every 4 seconds.
Pro tip - use evasion, roll dodge or simply block, if stamina user. CCing helps as well. If magicka user, spam shields.

No *** sherlock. But at one point in the fight you will get cc'ed, and when you do and that stuff procs, you are either dead or within execute range.

And why shouldn't you die? You got cc'd and didn't break... , Didn't have enough stam, whatev.

I fail to see the issue with bad play causing death..

Please enlighten.

Lol, tell me how and WHEN I should CC break when I get hit from incap (stun) which immediately procs viper and selene. Please enlighten?

But don't tell me I should be able to dodge/block EVERY attack thrown at me. It is bs. At one point you will take a hit. And 1 hit shouldn't mean going from 100% to 25% or less. Period.

And bad play? Pfff how ironic. Proc sets are just that: a solution for bad players to be able to kill others. Its utter cheese mode. Combat should be about skill not rng.

Ok, I'll tell you...

You run imov pots.

and/or

You gear/play appropriately.

You've set up your toon your way. If that's left you more susceptible to CC + damage, that's on you.

I get NB's pulling that incap/poison/surprise/proc all the time and occasionally it takes me down. However usually I mash breakfree, hit an imov/heal, stun/dot the nb and run him down. It's not like they have any other tricks.

I have a cheeseproc stamblade too, they're fun but super squishy (usually, there are some solid players out there too) and ya It wrecks people frequently. But that's on them, there are tons of players that can turn and burn regardless of proc cheese. Keep in mind, there's no guarantee that procs go off, it's a gamble for the proc user too.

I usually run an HA magplar. I could be in LA and do more damage, but then I'd be more susceptible to the gank builds. That's my call. If I find I'm still getting banged on I switch sets to go more tanky/heals, at the expense of damage. Again, my call. If you don't have that flexibility, that's on you.

Proc sets add a necessary chaos to pvp. It's pretty easy to math out a build to be near unkillable based on standard skills/gear. Proc sets force quick thinking, and changes in playstyle.

Call it whatever you want, proc sets change predictability in pvp and that's a good thing.

KingJ

Nope Nerf every single offensive proc set into the ground so they are no longer use able.

TheBonesXXX

(2 items) Adds 688 Weapon Critical

(3 items) Gain Minor Slayer at all times, increasing your damage done to Dungeon and Trial Monsters by 5%.

(4 items) Adds 688 Weapon Critical

(5 items) Reduces the cost of your Stamina abilities by 8%. When you kill an enemy, you restore 2150 Stamina and gain Major Expedition for 20 seconds, increasing your Movement Speed by 30%.

(5 items) Adds 129 Weapon Damage


(2 items) Adds Max Health

(3 items) Adds 4% Healing Taken

(4 items) Reduces damage taken from players by 5%.

(5 items) Reduces the cost of Break Free by 40%.



I'm going to take these two concepts and combine them.

Gain Warfare and Stalwartness at all times, increase your damage done and reducing your damage received in PvP 15%

Put them on every piece of PvP gear you get from Cyro and Battlegrounds.

Problem solved.

No need to nerf anything.

ParaNostram

TheBonesXXX wrote: »

(2 items) Adds 688 Weapon Critical

(3 items) Gain Minor Slayer at all times, increasing your damage done to Dungeon and Trial Monsters by 5%.

(4 items) Adds 688 Weapon Critical

(5 items) Reduces the cost of your Stamina abilities by 8%. When you kill an enemy, you restore 2150 Stamina and gain Major Expedition for 20 seconds, increasing your Movement Speed by 30%.

(5 items) Adds 129 Weapon Damage


(2 items) Adds Max Health

(3 items) Adds 4% Healing Taken

(4 items) Reduces damage taken from players by 5%.

(5 items) Reduces the cost of Break Free by 40%.



I'm going to take these two concepts and combine them.

Gain Warfare and Stalwartness at all times, increase your damage done and reducing your damage received in PvP 15%

Put them on every piece of PvP gear you get from Cyro and Battlegrounds.

Problem solved.

No need to nerf anything.

You're just shifting the problem then. After that it'll be everyone uses those sets or they underperform. That cuts on build diversity.

Sigtric

Personally I'd like to see proc sets left alone for pve and then add to battle spirit any set that procs damage lose the 5th bonus.

Katahdin

Koensol wrote: »

And bad play? Pfff how ironic. Proc sets are just that: a solution for bad players to be able to kill others. Its utter cheese mode. Combat should be about skill not rng.

KingJ wrote:

Nope Nerf every single offensive proc set into the ground so they are no longer use able.

Then lets also nerf destro ult to the ground in damage and area of effect and not make them able to follow along with the caster. Because hitting one button and streaking/teleporting into a crowd is cheese mode and requires no skill either.

.

KingJ

Katahdin wrote: »

Koensol wrote: »

And bad play? Pfff how ironic. Proc sets are just that: a solution for bad players to be able to kill others. Its utter cheese mode. Combat should be about skill not rng.

KingJ wrote:

Nope Nerf every single offensive proc set into the ground so they are no longer use able.

Then lets also nerf destro ult to the ground in damage and area of effect and not make them able to follow along with the caster. Because hitting one button and streaking/teleporting into a crowd is cheese mode and requires no skill either.

.

Fine with me Nerf destro ultimate as well.We need less PBAOE in the game anyway.Would help with the lag a lot as well.