Viper, Tremorscale and Selene are the problem, not procsets in general

Anne_Firehawk

I am afraid that in an order to fix the sets named above, ZOS will absolutely destroy those sets which are fairly balanced right now. Skoria, Nerien'eth and Grothdarr and even Red Mountain are all examples on how procsets should work, either tied to conditions of procing or moderate damage and not this "Scratch your bum, deal 5K Damage, 4s cooldown"-BS like it currently is with Viper, Selene and Tremorscale. Ridiculous damage tied to high procchances and easy conditions with small cooldowns is what making those sets absolutely broken, especially in NoCP.

A good example for a set that has been absolutely destroyed in the past by a blanket nerf is Overwhelming Surge, absolutely useless now - used to be surprisingly good for niche builds.

@ZOS_RichLambert @Wrobel
Please look at each set individually and don't do blanket changes.

Enslaved

Non CP PvP is the problem, not viper, tumorscale, widowmaker, selene...

Koensol

The biggest problem with viper is that there is no telegraped animation. No, it just hits, every 4 seconds. It's so cheesy it's unreal. In a duel it is absolute cancer when paired with selene. When you cc a target and get lucky, its viper+selene proc+execute = dead. Totally *** rng combat. It's driving me nuts. I generally don't like the burst procs. As dots they would be fine imo.

Enslaved

Selene can be dodged. Viper needs no telegraph, it simply hits every 4 seconds.
Pro tip - use evasion, roll dodge or simply block, if stamina user. CCing helps as well. If magicka user, spam shields.

leepalmer95

Viper
Selene
Tremorscale
Red mountain
Skoria
Grothdarr


are the problem

Can we not blanket nerf everything and kill sets like winterborn off please?

GreenSoup2HoT

>So destro users spamming Crushing Shock with red mountain (stamina set) is balanced to you?
>I see players tearing it up Overwhelming Surge still.... especially magblades.
>Grotharr deals a ton of damage. Its just not burst but provides AoE and reveal utility. Very strong.
>Skoria is also especially strong. Fire damage, unavoidable and an AoE component. Its just not that prominent due to NB cloak suppression and templar purge countering dots. If more players played dks/sorcs in pvp like they do heal bots and nightblades Skoria would be getting QQ.

The only set you mentioned in this whole thread that is under-performing is Nerien'eth. I'd argue all the fire damage based monster sets are just as strong as the other proc sets. Im not saying the ones you have mentioned are not over-performing though.

This thread is also very stamina biased.



Edit:

Anne_Firehawk wrote: »

Please look at each set individually and don't do blanket changes.

I very much agree with this statement. Removing criticals from proc sets made the problem worse. Technically a heavy armour build using procs wont get much value if they could still crit compared to a medium/light build that has higher crit. Reducing proc damage/healing accross the board by 50% but allowing them to crit would have made it more balanced then just straight removing crit.

I also believe each set needs to be adjusted individually, will require more work but will be vastly better then blanket fixes.

We need procs to scale with players weapon/spell damage / weapon/spell critical / weapon/spell penetration. That way you cant stack procs or use them in heavy armour and expect to have the same value compared to a dps class with actual damage boosting sets and say 1 proc set.

Avran_Sylt

@leepalmer95

How are they the problem?
When you're talking about a nerf, what kind of nerf?

"I feel like you just throw out stupid ideas without no thought behind them"

Whining about something but not providing reasoning is kinda, pointless.

-You could say that the amount of damage that they provide overshadows any +weapon +spell damage set bonus
-You could say that these sets have too high of a base damage, leading to players being able to stay tanky while doing a moderate amount of damage


You could provide potential solutions such as:
-Proc sets scale with resources, such that gaining high damage requires the player to sacrifice survivability
-You could suggest that Selene should function as a Ground Targeted AoE that has a 1 second delay before applying damage to one target in the AoE. Think Stormfist functionality (but reduced time for final damage tick and no damage during initial tick)

These are simple suggestions.

Narvuntien

Red mountain?

The issue is they don't scale off weapon damage and spell damage so you don't have to build any damage to still get all this damage which I think is an issue. Huge amounts of free damage is just really hard to balance.

You redesign the whole thing so that the sets don't give a lot of weapon or spell damage (give other offensive stats), then have the proc scale off WD or SD (like ultimates)

Shadzilla

What is a proc set? Are they good?

leepalmer95

Avran_Sylt wrote: »

@leepalmer95

How are they the problem?
When you're talking about a nerf, what kind of nerf?

"I feel like you just throw out stupid ideas without no thought behind them"

Whining about something but not providing reasoning is kinda, pointless.

-You could say that the amount of damage that they provide overshadows any +weapon +spell damage set bonus
-You could say that these sets have too high of a base damage, leading to players being able to stay tanky while doing a moderate amount of damage


You could provide potential solutions such as:
-Proc sets scale with resources, such that gaining high damage requires the player to sacrifice survivability
-You could suggest that Selene should function as a Ground Targeted AoE that has a 1 second delay before applying damage to one target in the AoE. Think Stormfist functionality (but reduced time for final damage tick and no damage during initial tick)

These are simple suggestions.

Whining? Its not my thread.

I was pointing out not all proc sets are the problem and the last time proc sets were nerfed they were all equally effected, including the near useless ones.

Scaling could be an idea, but some of the broke ones need individually adjusting, viper needs it proc chance dropped annd its damage dropped, maybe a cooldown increase.

A global cooldown for all proc sets so they can't be stacked.

They also shouldn't go off if the player wearing them dies, looking at you skoria

If you change any into having a delay they automatically become useless in pvp.

Anne_Firehawk

GreenSoup2HoT wrote: »

>So destro users spamming Crushing Shock with red mountain (stamina set) is balanced to you?
>I see players tearing it up Overwhelming Surge still.... especially magblades.
>Grotharr deals a ton of damage. Its just not burst but provides AoE and reveal utility. Very strong.
>Skoria is also especially strong. Fire damage, unavoidable and an AoE component. Its just not that prominent due to NB cloak suppression and templar purge countering dots. If more players played dks/sorcs in pvp like they do heal bots and nightblades Skoria would be getting QQ.

The only set you mentioned in this whole thread that is under-performing is Nerien'eth. I'd argue all the fire damage based monster sets are just as strong as the other proc sets. Im not saying the ones you have mentioned are not over-performing though.

This thread is also very stamina biased.

@GreenSoup2HoT
The Difference between Skoria for example and Selene is, that Skoria is tied to Dots, to somewhat of a condition, Selene to any damage with a higher procchance and let's not even talk about Viper. Also Selene hits way harder, 1p Bonus is a "Damage" Bonus etc. Not biased against Stamina, just want Balance.
Also, I agree that Red Mountain is overpowered on Sorc but it is somewhat balanced on a Stamina Character.

Grotharr deals a ton of damage. Its just not burst but provides AoE and reveal utility. Very strong

Yep, very strong but not brokenly OP most likely because its a DoT and not 6K Burst.

I see players tearing it up Overwhelming Surge still.... especially magblades.

It is absolutely useless, ticks for 500 Damage. Used to be somewhat good, sad it is not anymore


Edit:

I also believe each set needs to be adjusted individually, will require more work but will be vastly better then blanket fixes.

I would buy this as a DLC for 15€ @ZOS

leepalmer95

Anne_Firehawk wrote: »

GreenSoup2HoT wrote: »

>So destro users spamming Crushing Shock with red mountain (stamina set) is balanced to you?
>I see players tearing it up Overwhelming Surge still.... especially magblades.
>Grotharr deals a ton of damage. Its just not burst but provides AoE and reveal utility. Very strong.
>Skoria is also especially strong. Fire damage, unavoidable and an AoE component. Its just not that prominent due to NB cloak suppression and templar purge countering dots. If more players played dks/sorcs in pvp like they do heal bots and nightblades Skoria would be getting QQ.

The only set you mentioned in this whole thread that is under-performing is Nerien'eth. I'd argue all the fire damage based monster sets are just as strong as the other proc sets. Im not saying the ones you have mentioned are not over-performing though.

This thread is also very stamina biased.

@GreenSoup2HoT
The Difference between Skoria for example and Selene is, that Skoria is tied to Dots, to somewhat of a condition, Selene to any damage with a higher procchance and let's not even talk about Viper. Also Selene hits way harder, 1p Bonus is a "Damage" Bonus etc. Not biased against Stamina, just want Balance.
Also, I agree that Red Mountain is overpowered on Sorc but it is somewhat balanced on a Stamina Character.

Grotharr deals a ton of damage. Its just not burst but provides AoE and reveal utility. Very strong

Yep, very strong but not brokenly OP most likely because its a DoT and not 6K Burst.

I see players tearing it up Overwhelming Surge still.... especially magblades.

It is absolutely useless, ticks for 500 Damage. Used to be somewhat good, sad it is not anymore

Selene is also dodgeable and procs off melee only..

Skoria auto hits and is aoe

You can stack multiple dots while you can only do a certain amount of melee attacks in a second.

Max hp is just as good as max stam.

Red mountain isn't balanced at all. Even on a stam character.

Anne_Firehawk

leepalmer95 wrote: »

Anne_Firehawk wrote: »

GreenSoup2HoT wrote: »

>So destro users spamming Crushing Shock with red mountain (stamina set) is balanced to you?
>I see players tearing it up Overwhelming Surge still.... especially magblades.
>Grotharr deals a ton of damage. Its just not burst but provides AoE and reveal utility. Very strong.
>Skoria is also especially strong. Fire damage, unavoidable and an AoE component. Its just not that prominent due to NB cloak suppression and templar purge countering dots. If more players played dks/sorcs in pvp like they do heal bots and nightblades Skoria would be getting QQ.

The only set you mentioned in this whole thread that is under-performing is Nerien'eth. I'd argue all the fire damage based monster sets are just as strong as the other proc sets. Im not saying the ones you have mentioned are not over-performing though.

This thread is also very stamina biased.

@GreenSoup2HoT
The Difference between Skoria for example and Selene is, that Skoria is tied to Dots, to somewhat of a condition, Selene to any damage with a higher procchance and let's not even talk about Viper. Also Selene hits way harder, 1p Bonus is a "Damage" Bonus etc. Not biased against Stamina, just want Balance.
Also, I agree that Red Mountain is overpowered on Sorc but it is somewhat balanced on a Stamina Character.

Grotharr deals a ton of damage. Its just not burst but provides AoE and reveal utility. Very strong

Yep, very strong but not brokenly OP most likely because its a DoT and not 6K Burst.

I see players tearing it up Overwhelming Surge still.... especially magblades.

It is absolutely useless, ticks for 500 Damage. Used to be somewhat good, sad it is not anymore

Selene is also dodgeable and procs off melee only..

Skoria auto hits and is aoe

You can stack multiple dots while you can only do a certain amount of melee attacks in a second.

Max hp is just as good as max stam.

Red mountain isn't balanced at all. Even on a stam character.

You can do 3 Melee attacks a second, 2 when using a 2H without gimping yourself, either 45% or 30% procchance, lol
3 most common dots on a magicka DK give you a 24% procchance but it requires 3 seconds to put them up. For selene it is just 30%/45% chance a second. Not quite the same isn't it

leepalmer95

Anne_Firehawk wrote: »

leepalmer95 wrote: »

Anne_Firehawk wrote: »

GreenSoup2HoT wrote: »

>So destro users spamming Crushing Shock with red mountain (stamina set) is balanced to you?
>I see players tearing it up Overwhelming Surge still.... especially magblades.
>Grotharr deals a ton of damage. Its just not burst but provides AoE and reveal utility. Very strong.
>Skoria is also especially strong. Fire damage, unavoidable and an AoE component. Its just not that prominent due to NB cloak suppression and templar purge countering dots. If more players played dks/sorcs in pvp like they do heal bots and nightblades Skoria would be getting QQ.

The only set you mentioned in this whole thread that is under-performing is Nerien'eth. I'd argue all the fire damage based monster sets are just as strong as the other proc sets. Im not saying the ones you have mentioned are not over-performing though.

This thread is also very stamina biased.

@GreenSoup2HoT
The Difference between Skoria for example and Selene is, that Skoria is tied to Dots, to somewhat of a condition, Selene to any damage with a higher procchance and let's not even talk about Viper. Also Selene hits way harder, 1p Bonus is a "Damage" Bonus etc. Not biased against Stamina, just want Balance.
Also, I agree that Red Mountain is overpowered on Sorc but it is somewhat balanced on a Stamina Character.

Grotharr deals a ton of damage. Its just not burst but provides AoE and reveal utility. Very strong

Yep, very strong but not brokenly OP most likely because its a DoT and not 6K Burst.

I see players tearing it up Overwhelming Surge still.... especially magblades.

It is absolutely useless, ticks for 500 Damage. Used to be somewhat good, sad it is not anymore

Selene is also dodgeable and procs off melee only..

Skoria auto hits and is aoe

You can stack multiple dots while you can only do a certain amount of melee attacks in a second.

Max hp is just as good as max stam.

Red mountain isn't balanced at all. Even on a stam character.

You can do 3 Melee attacks a second, 2 when using a 2H without gimping yourself, either 45% or 30% procchance, lol

Light skill bash?

You can have 5-8 dots ticking a second easy. You don't even need to be attacking for it to proc.

Anne_Firehawk

leepalmer95 wrote: »

Anne_Firehawk wrote: »

leepalmer95 wrote: »

Anne_Firehawk wrote: »

GreenSoup2HoT wrote: »

>So destro users spamming Crushing Shock with red mountain (stamina set) is balanced to you?
>I see players tearing it up Overwhelming Surge still.... especially magblades.
>Grotharr deals a ton of damage. Its just not burst but provides AoE and reveal utility. Very strong.
>Skoria is also especially strong. Fire damage, unavoidable and an AoE component. Its just not that prominent due to NB cloak suppression and templar purge countering dots. If more players played dks/sorcs in pvp like they do heal bots and nightblades Skoria would be getting QQ.

The only set you mentioned in this whole thread that is under-performing is Nerien'eth. I'd argue all the fire damage based monster sets are just as strong as the other proc sets. Im not saying the ones you have mentioned are not over-performing though.

This thread is also very stamina biased.

@GreenSoup2HoT
The Difference between Skoria for example and Selene is, that Skoria is tied to Dots, to somewhat of a condition, Selene to any damage with a higher procchance and let's not even talk about Viper. Also Selene hits way harder, 1p Bonus is a "Damage" Bonus etc. Not biased against Stamina, just want Balance.
Also, I agree that Red Mountain is overpowered on Sorc but it is somewhat balanced on a Stamina Character.

Grotharr deals a ton of damage. Its just not burst but provides AoE and reveal utility. Very strong

Yep, very strong but not brokenly OP most likely because its a DoT and not 6K Burst.

I see players tearing it up Overwhelming Surge still.... especially magblades.

It is absolutely useless, ticks for 500 Damage. Used to be somewhat good, sad it is not anymore

Selene is also dodgeable and procs off melee only..

Skoria auto hits and is aoe

You can stack multiple dots while you can only do a certain amount of melee attacks in a second.

Max hp is just as good as max stam.

Red mountain isn't balanced at all. Even on a stam character.

You can do 3 Melee attacks a second, 2 when using a 2H without gimping yourself, either 45% or 30% procchance, lol

Light skill bash?

You can have 5-8 dots ticking a second easy. You don't even need to be attacking for it to proc.

Please name me 8 or even just 5 casual dots you would put up when going offensive (Volatile Damage Return does not count lol)
Anyways, don't name them, no need to derail this thread.

Edit: you not gonna bash when using a 2H, hence why I said without gimping yourself.

Qbiken

Skoria is somewhat balanced IMO since you´re forced to run a DoT in order for it to proc. The more dots = higher proc-chance. But with dots you sacrifice some burst potential. The tooltip dmg is one thing. If that´s to strong then tweak it a little bit.

leepalmer95

Anne_Firehawk wrote: »

leepalmer95 wrote: »

Anne_Firehawk wrote: »

leepalmer95 wrote: »

Anne_Firehawk wrote: »

GreenSoup2HoT wrote: »

>So destro users spamming Crushing Shock with red mountain (stamina set) is balanced to you?
>I see players tearing it up Overwhelming Surge still.... especially magblades.
>Grotharr deals a ton of damage. Its just not burst but provides AoE and reveal utility. Very strong.
>Skoria is also especially strong. Fire damage, unavoidable and an AoE component. Its just not that prominent due to NB cloak suppression and templar purge countering dots. If more players played dks/sorcs in pvp like they do heal bots and nightblades Skoria would be getting QQ.

The only set you mentioned in this whole thread that is under-performing is Nerien'eth. I'd argue all the fire damage based monster sets are just as strong as the other proc sets. Im not saying the ones you have mentioned are not over-performing though.

This thread is also very stamina biased.

@GreenSoup2HoT
The Difference between Skoria for example and Selene is, that Skoria is tied to Dots, to somewhat of a condition, Selene to any damage with a higher procchance and let's not even talk about Viper. Also Selene hits way harder, 1p Bonus is a "Damage" Bonus etc. Not biased against Stamina, just want Balance.
Also, I agree that Red Mountain is overpowered on Sorc but it is somewhat balanced on a Stamina Character.

Grotharr deals a ton of damage. Its just not burst but provides AoE and reveal utility. Very strong

Yep, very strong but not brokenly OP most likely because its a DoT and not 6K Burst.

I see players tearing it up Overwhelming Surge still.... especially magblades.

It is absolutely useless, ticks for 500 Damage. Used to be somewhat good, sad it is not anymore

Selene is also dodgeable and procs off melee only..

Skoria auto hits and is aoe

You can stack multiple dots while you can only do a certain amount of melee attacks in a second.

Max hp is just as good as max stam.

Red mountain isn't balanced at all. Even on a stam character.

You can do 3 Melee attacks a second, 2 when using a 2H without gimping yourself, either 45% or 30% procchance, lol

Light skill bash?

You can have 5-8 dots ticking a second easy. You don't even need to be attacking for it to proc.

Please name me 8 or even just 5 casual dots you would put up when going offensive (Volatile Damage Return does not count lol)
Anyways, don't name them, no need to derail this thread.

Edit: you not gonna bash when using a 2H, hence why I said without gimping yourself.

So 30%? Assuming then don't dodge or dodge the actual proc?

Oh i'll name them.

Volatile
Embers
Talons
Breath
2x dots from poison
Burning
Inhale counts as a dot
Bsw burning proc
Meteor/ destro ult/ standard

Anymore?

The point is magicka proc sets are just as broke as the stam ones, but yeah stam has more.

Sarousse

No direct damage should be on any set. Worst idea ever. How can pvp designers come to such a dumb idea, without foreseeing that there will be abuses about it ?

I mean seriously ? Don't they do any meetings before getting stuff like that out ?

GreenSoup2HoT

Anne_Firehawk wrote: »

GreenSoup2HoT wrote: »

>So destro users spamming Crushing Shock with red mountain (stamina set) is balanced to you?
>I see players tearing it up Overwhelming Surge still.... especially magblades.
>Grotharr deals a ton of damage. Its just not burst but provides AoE and reveal utility. Very strong.
>Skoria is also especially strong. Fire damage, unavoidable and an AoE component. Its just not that prominent due to NB cloak suppression and templar purge countering dots. If more players played dks/sorcs in pvp like they do heal bots and nightblades Skoria would be getting QQ.

The only set you mentioned in this whole thread that is under-performing is Nerien'eth. I'd argue all the fire damage based monster sets are just as strong as the other proc sets. Im not saying the ones you have mentioned are not over-performing though.

This thread is also very stamina biased.

@GreenSoup2HoT
The Difference between Skoria for example and Selene is, that Skoria is tied to Dots, to somewhat of a condition, Selene to any damage with a higher procchance and let's not even talk about Viper. Also Selene hits way harder, 1p Bonus is a "Damage" Bonus etc. Not biased against Stamina, just want Balance.
Also, I agree that Red Mountain is overpowered on Sorc but it is somewhat balanced on a Stamina Character.

Grotharr deals a ton of damage. Its just not burst but provides AoE and reveal utility. Very strong

Yep, very strong but not brokenly OP most likely because its a DoT and not 6K Burst.

I see players tearing it up Overwhelming Surge still.... especially magblades.

It is absolutely useless, ticks for 500 Damage. Used to be somewhat good, sad it is not anymore

>I know what the difference of those two sets are but thanks for stating the obvious.
>Seleane has a condition, melee attacks. All though i think its bugged and enchants + viper are proc'ing it.
>Viper with 100% proc is fine but cooldown could easily be 10 seconds. RNG sets are lame imho.
>Overwhelming is op with Grotharr together. Gankers get destroyed by this combo.


I agree we have sets that are to bursty but it would all be fixed once zos puts some type of scaling ontop of proc sets.

IcyDeadPeople

Yes, Anne you make a very good point. Nobody is complaining about Ashen Grip or Song of Lamae on their death recap.

Most of the proc sets are pretty crappy actually, only a few are overperforming. And there are a lot of these sets that proc damage shield, healing or other effects.

No need to nerf everything in this game with proc component, simply adjust the specific sets like Selene and Viper that might benefit from slight damage reduction

Anne_Firehawk

leepalmer95 wrote: »

So 30%? Assuming then don't dodge or dodge the actual proc?

Oh i'll name them.

Volatile
Embers
Talons
Breath
2x dots from poison
Burning
Inhale counts as a dot
Bsw burning proc
Meteor/ destro ult/ standard

Anymore?

The point is magicka proc sets are just as broke as the stam ones, but yeah stam has more.

How long does it take you to apply all those DoTs?

IcyDeadPeople wrote: »

Yes, Anne you make a very good point. Nobody is complaining about Ashen Grip or Song of Lamae on their death recap.

Most of the proc sets are pretty crappy actually, only a few are overperforming. And there are a lot of these sets that proc damage shield, healing or other effects.

No need to nerf everything in this game with proc component, simply adjust the specific sets like Selene and Viper that might benefit from slight damage reduction

100% agree, I even forgot Ashen Grip exists

GreenSoup2HoT

IcyDeadPeople wrote: »

Yes, Anne you make a very good point. Nobody is complaining about Ashen Grip or Song of Lamae on their death recap.

Most of the proc sets are pretty crappy actually, only a few are overperforming. And there are a lot of these sets that proc damage shield, healing or other effects.

No need to nerf everything in this game with proc component, simply adjust the specific sets like Selene and Viper that might benefit from slight damage reduction

Just reducing the damage of proc sets doesn't fix the problem. Problem being it doesn't matter what stats you have to obtain this damage. For example i could have 100% of my character spec'd into health and still use viper + seleane and be granted 12k proc damage in pvp every 4 seconds with 0 actual tooltip damage on my abilities.

Scaling is the best option.


Edit: Better yet i could use my literal fists. No weapons at all and kill people with proc sets.

Ahzek

In my opinion, while tied to certian conditions, in builds that focus on achieving those skoria outperforms every other procc set by miles (except mabye viper).
It does just as much damage as the rest, which is also the strongest type of dmg in PvP, has a significant AoE component and is entirely unavoidable. Couple that with a very low CD and ridiculous procc chance and it proccs more often than both selene and veli, but hits just as hard.

Most other procc sets are still OP and unhealthy to the game, but skorias actually takes the crown, especially considering mDKs are incidentally one of the strongest builds right niw, even without skorias.

If you want to see balanced procc sets look at those that allow for interaction with the target, like nerieneth (which is actually underperforming) or stormfist, even veli to a certain extent when you can keep a small distance. Give players ways to actively react to the dmg these sets deal and they will be fine, both for PvE and PvP.

Koensol

Enslaved wrote: »

Selene can be dodged. Viper needs no telegraph, it simply hits every 4 seconds.
Pro tip - use evasion, roll dodge or simply block, if stamina user. CCing helps as well. If magicka user, spam shields.

No *** sherlock. But at one point in the fight you will get cc'ed, and when you do and that stuff procs, you are either dead or within execute range.

Beardimus

Amen to that Op. Spot on.

zacvanm

I don't think Selene is a problem at all. Viper on the other hand is ridiculously OP. I don't se many people using Red Mountain, and Skoria doesn't hit so hard without crit. I use Selene, Agility, Bone Pirate and Maelstrom 2h on a Stamplar and my Selene MAYBE hits for 4-5k regularly, but more often what I RELY on for kills is PotL. Viper, Veli, Dawnbreaker NBs are what's giving proc sets a bad name..specifically viper. I've also seen viper on my death recap being proc'd from the undodgeable cliff racer from Stamwarden.

DRXHarbinger

Lol so much salt here. Have you never heard the phrase... ye who procs 1st procs last and wins?

Nothing beats a single crit rush into a viper+veli+red mountain instagib combo.

Seriously stop pulling the thread. It'll all unravell and we'll have *** all left bar fist fights.

Magıc

Agree with Lee on which proc sets need nerfing tbh.

And idk who said that RM is fine on stam characters but you clearly haven't used it with DW lol. It's disgusting, just as bad as it is on Mag Sorc if not worse cause you can pair it with selenes and viperz

Kay1

People arguing about nerfing proc sets...

They don't need a direct nerf, just nerf the amount of proc sets you can use, 1 should be the limit.

Magıc

Kay1 wrote: »

People arguing about nerfing proc sets...

They don't need a direct nerf, just nerf the amount of proc sets you can use, 1 should be the limit.

Some are broken either way. RM on mag sorc is awful to play against for example.

Kay1

Magıc wrote: »

Kay1 wrote: »

People arguing about nerfing proc sets...

They don't need a direct nerf, just nerf the amount of proc sets you can use, 1 should be the limit.

Some are broken either way. RM on mag sorc is awful to play against for example.

Red Mountain on Magsorc lmao, that's some *** build to be honest and I'm sure the sorc is making enough sacrifices so the proc is alright even if it deal 10k procs he can't survive.