More oceanic AD needed - PC Vivec NA

IxSTALKERxI

Everyday AD falls to 1 bar pop for a period of time and there is no point trying to defend anything. As it is now it is best just to leave Cyrodiil and come back in a few hours when there are more than 5 AD players online and capture our keeps back that we lost. Feels like all you can do as an AD player is spectate the map as it flips from Red to Blue to Red to Blue etc.

Anyways, need more AD during oceanic.

Agrippa_Invisus

You should ask the leader of a particular blue Oceanic group.

Back in 2016 on this very forum he was quoted as saying "We go where the zerg is not."

I'm sure they'll be glad to swap toons from the largest oceanic presence to the smallest. Would help shore up AD's numbers and give them more interesting fights at the same time.

IxSTALKERxI

I think we need more than just a guild. On some nights we have queens ram who log on a little later and pretty much carry AD, but it's mostly just them doing all the work, not many other AD online.

I'd lead a guild group but like... i'll be the only person in guild online and there isn't really anyone to recruit. AD faction just feels dead. Sometimes I lead the few AD who are online in a pug group but they don't stand a chance against organised opposition, especially if outnumbered.

Just need a larger pool of players in general, pvp feels dead.

Agrippa_Invisus

I mention the nameless guild due to the fact that it's very unlikely for randoms to have much of an impact in population numbers. 2-3 extra players switching to morning AD playtimes is helpful, but not impactful.

We've all seen what happens when one guild unstacks from the zerg and swaps. They've said previously they want to be on the side where the zerg is not. Well, that defines Oceanic AD right now.

Imagine how many fewer 2-3 hour morning DC emps we'd have if AD had some real presence, instead of 3 bars DC (with two guild groups at their head -- Vivace and TKG) vs 2 bars of EP (with Wormhole) vs 5 AD huddled in Faregyl praying that it doesn't get sieged, there could be closer to a 2v2v2 bar population setup. That would be challenging and fun and fair.

IxSTALKERxI

Agrippa_Invisus wrote: »

5 AD huddled in Faregyl praying that it doesn't get sieged

I actually lol'd at this. Sounds pretty accurate. Luckily Iskra is there to have a conversation with while trying to pass the time.

Akgurd

Majority of the player base is fair-weather so trend may continue unless some guild stands up to fill in the empty hours. Lot of player just leave cyro when there's no group carrying the map.

When running Queens RAM raid, I still see a lot of AD players running around even taking keeps and towers by themselves.

Mazbt

I pop in and out at random times but I like late night EST. AD is usually doing well at that time, but in EST afternoons it's terrible.

Ilpagliaccio

Or the AD who swapped to their EP chars after EP finally won a campaign, yeah, those people--maybe they can swap back to AD instead of pretending they swapped to "play with friends". That facade always makes me giggle. What do they do when they play pick-up games at the park?

"I want to play with Fred, so I want to be on his side"
"Uh, Fred's team already has 4 people, and you're this side's 4th"
"What's wrong with me playing with a friend?"
"It's a pick-up basketball game at the park, you knobhead. Playing against your friend is still playing with them"
"Yeah, but I want to play with Fred."

/flip table

Rohamad_Ali

Good thread , we do need a night time guild to help Defence . It doesn't have to be oceanic , we will settle for insomniacs at this point .

Drakkdjinn

"More PvDooring nightzergers needed to combat the ever present EP/DC potato nightzergs"

Fixed your title OP

Crispen_Longbow

IxSTALKERxI wrote: »

Everyday AD falls to 1 bar pop for a period of time and there is no point trying to defend anything. As it is now it is best just to leave Cyrodiil and come back in a few hours when there are more than 5 AD players online and capture our keeps back that we lost. Feels like all you can do as an AD player is spectate the map as it flips from Red to Blue to Red to Blue etc.

Anyways, need more AD during oceanic.

Is there AD pop on the other campaigns (Sotha Sil, Almalexia or Kyne) that could come over to Vivec? This is sometimes the case that presence is on the wrong campaign?

Here is the old enough I had on what guilds are running at night. Looks like EP has the largest guild presence.

AD

Guild______________________TIME
1. Queens RAM _____________Night (1 AM EST - 9 AM EST)(8-16)
2. GONDAWARA_____________Night (1 AM EST - 9 AM EST) (Are they still active?)

MIA/Retired? Venatus__________________Night (1 AM EST - 9 AM EST)(6-8)

DC

1. The Kelly Gang (TKG)______Night (1 AM EST - 9 AM EST)
2. Vivace____________________Night (1 AM EST - 9 AM EST) (Never heard of this guild)?

EP

1. Wormhole (EP)_________________Night (1 AM EST - 9 AM EST)
2. Lambent Darkness_____________Night (1 AM EST - 9 AM EST))(6-12)
3. Zombie Death Machine________Night (1 AM EST - 9 AM EST)
4. Moons and Stars ______________Night (1 AM EST - 9 AM EST)
5. AMATERAS____________________Night (1 AM EST - 9 AM EST)

Flake

Agrippa_Invisus wrote: »

You should ask the leader of a particular blue Oceanic group.

Back in 2016 on this very forum he was quoted as saying "We go where the zerg is not."

I'm sure they'll be glad to swap toons from the largest oceanic presence to the smallest. Would help shore up AD's numbers and give them more interesting fights at the same time.

Don't really see that happening. AD have the numbers we've seen it countless times, however it currently seems some might be fairweather by swapping to a side to "play" with friends.

Satiar

This is odd. AD always has had a gigantic Oceanic presence.

Chori

Wasnt Ruin Gaming playing during oceanic time along with hmm who was it..Dominion Knights or Dominant Dominion

Ilpagliaccio

Chori wrote: »

Wasnt Ruin Gaming playing during oceanic time along with hmm who was it..Dominion Knights or Dominant Dominion

Aren't all the AD guilds stacked in some lackluster guild called Artyom Dumeum or some daft name like that? The 4 guilds that would play separately have just started stacking whatever numbers they have in one group,and whichever tabard they run seems arbitrary due to the group consisting of the same individuals regardless of tabard. It's like watching a bad soap opera where the villain dons a bad disguise and tries to fool people as to what his true identity is.

maxjapank

Flake wrote: »

Agrippa_Invisus wrote: »

You should ask the leader of a particular blue Oceanic group.

Back in 2016 on this very forum he was quoted as saying "We go where the zerg is not."

I'm sure they'll be glad to swap toons from the largest oceanic presence to the smallest. Would help shore up AD's numbers and give them more interesting fights at the same time.

Don't really see that happening. AD have the numbers we've seen it countless times, however it currently seems some might be fairweather by swapping to a side to "play" with friends.

It's mysterious. All three factions had a 2-bar population for some time last night. Then EP went down to 1. Then later AD went to 1 and EP was back to 2. And when I logged off, EP and AD were 2 while DC was 3.

A couple of times last campaign, half of our guild logged onto their AD toons cause there was no competition. We just intended to fight against ourselves, but suddenly AD pugs started appearing out of nowhere. There were quite a lot of them. And suddenly we had large forces of AD and DC going at it.

And yes, on the nights RAM is on for AD, there are tons of AD.

Elong

Crispen_Longbow wrote: »

IxSTALKERxI wrote: »

Everyday AD falls to 1 bar pop for a period of time and there is no point trying to defend anything. As it is now it is best just to leave Cyrodiil and come back in a few hours when there are more than 5 AD players online and capture our keeps back that we lost. Feels like all you can do as an AD player is spectate the map as it flips from Red to Blue to Red to Blue etc.

Anyways, need more AD during oceanic.

Is there AD pop on the other campaigns (Sotha Sil, Almalexia or Kyne) that could come over to Vivec? This is sometimes the case that presence is on the wrong campaign?

Here is the old enough I had on what guilds are running at night. Looks like EP has the largest guild presence.

AD

Guild______________________TIME
1. Queens RAM _____________Night (1 AM EST - 9 AM EST)(8-16)
2. GONDAWARA_____________Night (1 AM EST - 9 AM EST) (Are they still active?)

MIA/Retired? Venatus__________________Night (1 AM EST - 9 AM EST)(6-8)

DC

1. The Kelly Gang (TKG)______Night (1 AM EST - 9 AM EST)
2. Vivace____________________Night (1 AM EST - 9 AM EST) (Never heard of this guild)?

EP

1. Wormhole (EP)_________________Night (1 AM EST - 9 AM EST)
2. Lambent Darkness_____________Night (1 AM EST - 9 AM EST))(6-12)
3. Zombie Death Machine________Night (1 AM EST - 9 AM EST)
4. Moons and Stars ______________Night (1 AM EST - 9 AM EST)
5. AMATERAS____________________Night (1 AM EST - 9 AM EST)

Outdated

[Edit to remove bait]

IZZEFlameLash

We just need more cliff racers and shalks. Add bears to boost our group numbers.

IxSTALKERxI

Crispen_Longbow wrote: »

Is there AD pop on the other campaigns (Sotha Sil, Almalexia or Kyne) that could come over to Vivec? This is sometimes the case that presence is on the wrong campaign?

Kilandros

Crispen_Longbow wrote: »

IxSTALKERxI wrote: »

Everyday AD falls to 1 bar pop for a period of time and there is no point trying to defend anything. As it is now it is best just to leave Cyrodiil and come back in a few hours when there are more than 5 AD players online and capture our keeps back that we lost. Feels like all you can do as an AD player is spectate the map as it flips from Red to Blue to Red to Blue etc.

Anyways, need more AD during oceanic.

Is there AD pop on the other campaigns (Sotha Sil, Almalexia or Kyne) that could come over to Vivec? This is sometimes the case that presence is on the wrong campaign?

Here is the old enough I had on what guilds are running at night. Looks like EP has the largest guild presence.

AD

Guild______________________TIME
1. Queens RAM _____________Night (1 AM EST - 9 AM EST)(8-16)
2. GONDAWARA_____________Night (1 AM EST - 9 AM EST) (Are they still active?)

MIA/Retired? Venatus__________________Night (1 AM EST - 9 AM EST)(6-8)

DC

1. The Kelly Gang (TKG)______Night (1 AM EST - 9 AM EST)
2. Vivace____________________Night (1 AM EST - 9 AM EST) (Never heard of this guild)?

EP

1. Wormhole (EP)_________________Night (1 AM EST - 9 AM EST)
2. Lambent Darkness_____________Night (1 AM EST - 9 AM EST))(6-12)
3. Zombie Death Machine________Night (1 AM EST - 9 AM EST)
4. Moons and Stars ______________Night (1 AM EST - 9 AM EST)
5. AMATERAS____________________Night (1 AM EST - 9 AM EST)

@Crispen_Longbow Though I can only speak for Invictus, I know we had posted several times in the original thread from which you compiled this list that your raid times were largely inaccurate. I imagine that what was true of our guild (that we don't, contrary to your list, play 8 hours a day) is probably true for nearly all of the guilds on there.

I applaud your putting this list together, but you need to make it accurate. I don't believe any of those guilds run 8 hours a day. Those times may well represent the window in which they run but I think you could narrow it down by quite a bit if you wanted to.

Crispen_Longbow

It's broken up into 8 hour time slots. What time do you mostly play in Day, night or prime time. A guild may only play Mondays for 1 hour during the day, so you are considered a day guild.

The point is not to say which guild plays for x amount of time but to help balance campaigns. Lets face it if one organized guild is on and it has no competition they can roll the map all day against pugs. This list is simply to show where the guilds are running and what 8 hour period.

As far as I know those are the active night time guilds. Do you know of other guilds that are running at night that should be added to this list or taken off? That is how it becomes more accurate? If not then this is still what guilds we know are running at night.

Crispen_Longbow

IxSTALKERxI wrote: »

Crispen_Longbow wrote: »

Is there AD pop on the other campaigns (Sotha Sil, Almalexia or Kyne) that could come over to Vivec? This is sometimes the case that presence is on the wrong campaign?

Well that sucks. From the list of guilds, so far that we know, looks like EP has the most with the most pop. If there isn't any other AD guilds online to pull from, wormhole would have been better to go to AD to balance out the campaign.

Kilandros

Crispen_Longbow wrote: »

It's broken up into 8 hour time slots. What time do you mostly play in Day, night or prime time. A guild may only play Mondays for 1 hour during the day, so you are considered a day guild.

The point is not to say which guild plays for x amount of time but to help balance campaigns. Lets face it if one organized guild is on and it has no competition they can roll the map all day against pugs. This list is simply to show where the guilds are running and what 8 hour period.

As far as I know those are the active night time guilds. Do you know of other guilds that are running at night that should be added to this list or taken off? That is how it becomes more accurate? If not then this is still what guilds we know are running at night.

I think the problem with using an 8-hour period is that is misrepresents what guilds are actually playing. I know that ZDM, for example, neither plays nightly nor does it generally start before 5-6AM. So if you have Guild A that actually runs from 1-5AM EST, and Guild B that actually runs from 6-10AM EST, then your list would represent that faction as having two guilds simultaneously active at night when in fact it only has one.

So I don't know how that helps balance campaigns if it doesn't accurately reflect when guilds actually play and on what days. Take EP, for example: your list shows EP as having the most guilds online between the hours of 1-9AM EST; yet, until last campaign EP was regularly pushed to their gates at night due to a lack of an oceanic presence. All of that changed when Wormhole switched and now EP has that presence. Those other guilds you have listed as running from 1-9AM EST either do not running consistently enough or for enough hours to accurately reflect what's actually going on.

Hopefully you take this as constructive criticism--I hope you do. If you want to compile this list (and, again, I applaud you for doing so), I think it's in your best interest to be as accurate as possible. I think you need to narrow down the raid-time window where possible, and identify which days those guilds play, where possible. Otherwise we're left with a picture that is at best incomplete or as worse rather misleading.

CyrusArya

IZZESparkling wrote: »

We just need more cliff racers and shalks. Add bears to boost our group numbers.

The warden is such a good class for zerging enthusiasts, I can see why certain guilds have taken to it oh so fondly.

Agrippa_Invisus

CyrusArya wrote: »

IZZESparkling wrote: »

We just need more cliff racers and shalks. Add bears to boost our group numbers.

The warden is such a good class for zerging enthusiasts, I can see why certain guilds have taken to it oh so fondly.

If I never see a squad of 20+ dudes chasing down the odd onesie-twosie players with a veritable stream of Cliff Racers flowing from the zergblob to those poor sods again, it'll be too soon.

Texas

Kilandros wrote: »

Crispen_Longbow wrote: »

It's broken up into 8 hour time slots. What time do you mostly play in Day, night or prime time. A guild may only play Mondays for 1 hour during the day, so you are considered a day guild.

The point is not to say which guild plays for x amount of time but to help balance campaigns. Lets face it if one organized guild is on and it has no competition they can roll the map all day against pugs. This list is simply to show where the guilds are running and what 8 hour period.

As far as I know those are the active night time guilds. Do you know of other guilds that are running at night that should be added to this list or taken off? That is how it becomes more accurate? If not then this is still what guilds we know are running at night.

I think the problem with using an 8-hour period is that is misrepresents what guilds are actually playing. I know that ZDM, for example, neither plays nightly nor does it generally start before 5-6AM. So if you have Guild A that actually runs from 1-5AM EST, and Guild B that actually runs from 6-10AM EST, then your list would represent that faction as having two guilds simultaneously active at night when in fact it only has one.

So I don't know how that helps balance campaigns if it doesn't accurately reflect when guilds actually play and on what days. Take EP, for example: your list shows EP as having the most guilds online between the hours of 1-9AM EST; yet, until last campaign EP was regularly pushed to their gates at night due to a lack of an oceanic presence. All of that changed when Wormhole switched and now EP has that presence. Those other guilds you have listed as running from 1-9AM EST either do not running consistently enough or for enough hours to accurately reflect what's actually going on.

Hopefully you take this as constructive criticism--I hope you do. If you want to compile this list (and, again, I applaud you for doing so), I think it's in your best interest to be as accurate as possible. I think you need to narrow down the raid-time window where possible, and identify which days those guilds play, where possible. Otherwise we're left with a picture that is at best incomplete or as worse rather misleading.

Why not make your own listing and have every guild approve when they run/how many and post it instead? Estimates and educated guess are never absolutes and should never be treated as such.

Kilandros

Texas wrote: »

Kilandros wrote: »

Crispen_Longbow wrote: »

It's broken up into 8 hour time slots. What time do you mostly play in Day, night or prime time. A guild may only play Mondays for 1 hour during the day, so you are considered a day guild.

The point is not to say which guild plays for x amount of time but to help balance campaigns. Lets face it if one organized guild is on and it has no competition they can roll the map all day against pugs. This list is simply to show where the guilds are running and what 8 hour period.

As far as I know those are the active night time guilds. Do you know of other guilds that are running at night that should be added to this list or taken off? That is how it becomes more accurate? If not then this is still what guilds we know are running at night.

I think the problem with using an 8-hour period is that is misrepresents what guilds are actually playing. I know that ZDM, for example, neither plays nightly nor does it generally start before 5-6AM. So if you have Guild A that actually runs from 1-5AM EST, and Guild B that actually runs from 6-10AM EST, then your list would represent that faction as having two guilds simultaneously active at night when in fact it only has one.

So I don't know how that helps balance campaigns if it doesn't accurately reflect when guilds actually play and on what days. Take EP, for example: your list shows EP as having the most guilds online between the hours of 1-9AM EST; yet, until last campaign EP was regularly pushed to their gates at night due to a lack of an oceanic presence. All of that changed when Wormhole switched and now EP has that presence. Those other guilds you have listed as running from 1-9AM EST either do not running consistently enough or for enough hours to accurately reflect what's actually going on.

Hopefully you take this as constructive criticism--I hope you do. If you want to compile this list (and, again, I applaud you for doing so), I think it's in your best interest to be as accurate as possible. I think you need to narrow down the raid-time window where possible, and identify which days those guilds play, where possible. Otherwise we're left with a picture that is at best incomplete or as worse rather misleading.

Why not make your own listing and have every guild approve when they run/how many and post it instead? Estimates and educated guess are never absolutes and should never be treated as such.

Is there something wrong with trying to help make the list more accurate?

Crispen_Longbow

I think the problem with using an 8-hour period is that is misrepresents what guilds are actually playing. I know that ZDM, for example, neither plays nightly nor does it generally start before 5-6AM. So if you have Guild A that actually runs from 1-5AM EST, and Guild B that actually runs from 6-10AM EST, then your list would represent that faction as having two guilds simultaneously active at night when in fact it only has one.

I had the guilds choose which time they preferred to be tied to. They can only be represented in 1 of the 3 hour blocks. So if they classified themselves as a day guild or a night guild that's what they were listed as. In my original list I started adding group size as well as what days of the week they ran. Some guilds responded some didn't.

Example below.
Death's Head Legion_______Prime Time (5 PM EST - 1 AM EST)(8-16)(S,SU)

The problem is that most guilds don't have set hours they run, they jump on and play as long as they are having fun and then log off, however they generally play in the same 8 hour window so this is the best representation of that. Is it 100% accurate nope but I still believe it's the best way to show time blocks.

I also believe that campaign scores should be broken up into these same 8 hour time blocks for people to actually care about winning the campaign. I will always go back to what I say about campaign wins.

The problem is you can’t expect people to care about winning a campaign when they have no control over winning.

If ZOS wants to move in a direction of caring about campaign wins, create 3 subsets of scoring.

1. Primetime Scoring (5 PM EST – 1 AM EST)
2. Night Scoring (1 AM EST – 9 AM EST)
3. Day Scoring (9 AM EST – 5 PM EST)

Hopefully you take this as constructive criticism--I hope you do.

Sure I will take it as constructive criticism. I won't hold it against you how you feel about members of VE.

Oceanic Guilds are pretty hard to get info from as they are under represented on the forums. Still even if faction x has 3 guilds and faction y has 1 guild depending on level the 1 guild can still crush the other 3 guilds.

From what has been posted for pop levels and organized guilds it seems that AD is really the underdog for the oceanic time zone (as hard as that is to believe given the history of this game for AD) wormhole would have been better off going to AD.

Ilpagliaccio

People are still advocating for guilds to swap factions based on incomplete information? It's been proven time and time again that guilds swapping factions via knee-jerk reactions only harms campaign balance,e.g., DiE swapping to the winning faction and helping ruin campaign balance for X TB cycles. That's just the first instance of a guild swap,based on incomplete information(and plenty of AD faction drama prior for DiE), causing more harm than good.

Yes, EP has gained a few periods where the faction drastically outnumbers the other factions, and that's not good for campaign balance whatsoever. However, the reason EP has more population isn't anything more complicated than AD/DC bandwagoners. The solution to the EP pop problem lies with AD/DC guilds. Incentivize and motivate your own faction members to stay on your side--it's as simple as that. So far, I've personally seen 30+ AD/DC regulars, who never played EP before this cycle, start playing EP chars after EP won a cycle finally. Aka Bandwagon af



Ever notice how the frequency of certain EP guilds trying to AP farm at Roe,Ash,Nikel,etc dropped drastically last cycle? Those same guilds that would spend hours farming, who just happened to start focusing objectives with a pitched fervor? There was a concerted attempt to stigmatize AP farming whilst promoting objective play. And it was wildly successful. Thanks again to the individuals who participated in the social engineering effort. It achieved its purpose.

TL,DR: No amount of numbers will outweigh a faction being permissive of groups playing for the other faction indirectly(by prioritizing their AP gains over being good team mates) or directly (by swapping to whichever faction is winning). Ball's in your court AD/DC, and if you cannot police your own faction members and become a proper team on your own, instead of demanding numbers are thrown at your self-created problem--well, I'll gladly level an AD/DC to analyze your shortcomings and effect positive change behind-the-scenes.

Texas

Kilandros wrote: »

Texas wrote: »

Kilandros wrote: »

Crispen_Longbow wrote: »

It's broken up into 8 hour time slots. What time do you mostly play in Day, night or prime time. A guild may only play Mondays for 1 hour during the day, so you are considered a day guild.

The point is not to say which guild plays for x amount of time but to help balance campaigns. Lets face it if one organized guild is on and it has no competition they can roll the map all day against pugs. This list is simply to show where the guilds are running and what 8 hour period.

As far as I know those are the active night time guilds. Do you know of other guilds that are running at night that should be added to this list or taken off? That is how it becomes more accurate? If not then this is still what guilds we know are running at night.

I think the problem with using an 8-hour period is that is misrepresents what guilds are actually playing. I know that ZDM, for example, neither plays nightly nor does it generally start before 5-6AM. So if you have Guild A that actually runs from 1-5AM EST, and Guild B that actually runs from 6-10AM EST, then your list would represent that faction as having two guilds simultaneously active at night when in fact it only has one.

So I don't know how that helps balance campaigns if it doesn't accurately reflect when guilds actually play and on what days. Take EP, for example: your list shows EP as having the most guilds online between the hours of 1-9AM EST; yet, until last campaign EP was regularly pushed to their gates at night due to a lack of an oceanic presence. All of that changed when Wormhole switched and now EP has that presence. Those other guilds you have listed as running from 1-9AM EST either do not running consistently enough or for enough hours to accurately reflect what's actually going on.

Hopefully you take this as constructive criticism--I hope you do. If you want to compile this list (and, again, I applaud you for doing so), I think it's in your best interest to be as accurate as possible. I think you need to narrow down the raid-time window where possible, and identify which days those guilds play, where possible. Otherwise we're left with a picture that is at best incomplete or as worse rather misleading.

Why not make your own listing and have every guild approve when they run/how many and post it instead? Estimates and educated guess are never absolutes and should never be treated as such.

Is there something wrong with trying to help make the list more accurate?

Not at all.......I think you could probably help best by creating a new listing of guilds that are active and rendering Crispy's list invalid. TEAMWORK makes the DREAM WORK.

Crispen_Longbow

Ilpagliaccio wrote: »

Yes, EP has gained a few periods where the faction drastically outnumbers the other factions, and that's not good for campaign balance whatsoever.

AD is not talking about primetime. They are talking about oceanic guilds. That has nothing to do with AP farming or bandwagners jumping. Campaigns are won by Night and Day crews always have always will (with the current scoring system). They have no population (according to them and screenshots) during this time.

Ball's in your court AD/DC, and if you cannot police your own faction members and become a proper team on your own, instead of demanding numbers are thrown at your self-created problem--well, I'll gladly level an AD/DC to analyze your shortcomings and effect positive change behind-the-scenes.

There is nothing to police to solve that problem. As much as we, that run in primetime, want to think we contribute to the campaign the reality is we don't. That is why the majority of players don't care about Campaign wins.

Once again.
The problem is you can’t expect people to care about winning a campaign when they have no control over winning