The giant difference between Mag and Stam

Juli'St

I do not know if I'm being correct in stating that Stamina, in PvP, has a huge advantage over any + build class (with the exception of the Sorc class). I play with both of them and, it seems, there is a lack of a better balance between these two characteristics of the game.

What do you think?

FlyLionel

Yes. Generally stamina is going to be superior for the masses. High burst/infinite CC breaking and lots of dodge rolls. Only class that is dogged on in my eyes is mNB...remember when mNB were melee?

Juli'St

Serious, my set not is so bad: Seducer, Molag, torug and i cant block nothing (im templar magic in my main). Or i choice block, or roll, or... just it, after 3 secound's i die cause any gime a reverse slash or that skill from NB to make me crazy

I really think, ESO need more balance, a bit more stam to mag and mag to stam build.

Zvorgin

Stamina might have the advantage in 1v1, but magicka has the builds that kill tons at once.

Docmandu

Zvorgin wrote: »

Stamina might have the advantage in 1v1, but magicka has the builds that kill tons at once.

... if you stack with 20 in a ball

NACtron

Magicka dps is overall vastly superior for raid v raid/medium group play. So much so stamina dps has pratically no place in anything bigger than a group of 8 besides being a rapids/caltrops provider.

Stamina dps has strong advantages in 1v1, ganking and very small group play though magicka can be viable option if built right.

In my opinion stamina needs to be buffed just slightly so it can compete in raid v raid again. Not a huge buff. Frankly I find the balance to be acceptable enough right now. My Stamplar is for battlegrounds and running solo. My mag DK is for raid v raid large scale PvP.

MarriedWithChildren

From what I can tell , Stam in PVP. Mag in pve

MarriedWithChildren

If they buff Stam in pve they better buff mag in pvp

Juli'St

NACtron wrote: »

Magicka dps is overall vastly superior for raid v raid/medium group play. So much so stamina dps has pratically no place in anything bigger than a group of 8 besides being a rapids/caltrops provider.

Stamina dps has strong advantages in 1v1, ganking and very small group play though magicka can be viable option if built right.

In my opinion stamina needs to be buffed just slightly so it can compete in raid v raid again. Not a huge buff. Frankly I find the balance to be acceptable enough right now. My Stamplar is for battlegrounds and running solo. My mag DK is for raid v raid large scale PvP.

Agree 100%

Juli'St

Problem is, all important function in mechanic of the characters are supported or based on 'stamina'. ZOS can change this and give some ability to block punches using magic.

It is ridiculous to see the CP tree, for example, having 90% of its assignments turned exclusively to stamina build's.

Game has absolutely NO balance between these two modes.

Taylor_MB

You guys need to get into cyrodiil.

Group fights are won because of magicka users, who have exclusive (apart from some *** warden stam morphs) access to:
- AoE burst healing
- Purge
- Destro Ult
- Negate
- Roots
- Damage shields

That is not to say stamina is useless, they have many strengths, but most of them are restricted to solo / small man / kiting.

Reading this thread was difficult, not going to lie.

Juli'St

Taylor_MB wrote: »

You guys need to get into cyrodiil.

Group fights are won because of magicka users, who have exclusive (apart from some *** warden stam morphs) access to:
- AoE burst healing
- Purge
- Destro Ult
- Negate
- Roots
- Damage shields

That is not to say stamina is useless, they have many strengths, but most of them are restricted to solo / small man / kiting.

Reading this thread was difficult, not going to lie.

I talk more about 1x1 or small pvp. mag need a better systen to block, but a MAG-system.

GreenSoup2HoT

@Taylor_MB Agree. In large scale my stamnb feels like it cant even make a dent in the out come of a keep battle, say in comparison to a Negate or Destro Ult.

All though stamnb is fantastic at picking solo players off on transit routes and sieges.

Magicka has just so much more to offer for groupplay.

Juli'St

"stamnb" - to me, a aberration in this game, need NERF.

Taylor_MB

Juli'St wrote: »

Taylor_MB wrote: »

You guys need to get into cyrodiil.

Group fights are won because of magicka users, who have exclusive (apart from some *** warden stam morphs) access to:
- AoE burst healing
- Purge
- Destro Ult
- Negate
- Roots
- Damage shields

That is not to say stamina is useless, they have many strengths, but most of them are restricted to solo / small man / kiting.

Reading this thread was difficult, not going to lie.

I talk more about 1x1 or small pvp. mag need a better systen to block, but a MAG-system.

*twitches*

They can use Ice Staff. Magicka users can also spam damage shields, they can put damage shields on each other and have an ult for a group damage shield! Magicka users have this super effective way to mitigate damage that doesn't need to be a carbon copy of stamina's primary options.

Stamina can mitigate damage by:
- Dodge rolling (a lot)
- Blocking (a lot)
- Damage shield (only if on high HP build)

Magicka users can mitigate damage by:
- Blocking (strategically)
- Dodge rolling (strategically)
- Damage shield (pretty much spammable)

Both specs have super effective ways to mitigate damage, asking for an identical magicka version of everything stam can do is seriously 1-dimensional (but again, Ice Staff, ZoS already introduced it).

Juli'St

"- Blocking (strategically)
- Dodge rolling (strategically)
- Damage shield (pretty much spammable)"

lollllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllll

...or u make ONE or u make other. Combat end and u is death!

Its absurd the diference. GAME need change about it.

Taylor_MB

Juli'St wrote: »

"- Blocking (strategically)
- Dodge rolling (strategically)
- Damage shield (pretty much spammable)"

lollllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllll

...or u make ONE or u make other. Combat end and u is death!

Its absurd the diference. GAME need change about it.

Can't even decipher what you are trying to say.

Nonetheless, here are some hints:
- 1 pc Bloodpsawn for stam regen
- Stam regen glyph
- Amberplasm for 300 stamina AND 300 magicka regen for 5th piece bonus (locked behind a paywall which is why I don't use it personally)
- Wear 5/1/1 for Undaunted Mettle passive to increase max stamina (and other stats)
- Ice Staff blocking consumes magicka and provides blocking mitigation almost on par with s+b
- Shadow Dancer is a magicka set that also gives stamina regen

Again, magicka users don't need the exact same damage mitigation mechanics as stamina uses have. However, there is nothing stopping you from building for stamina regen into a magicka build. Plus magicka uses have access to damage shields and ice staff.

Juli'St

Taylor_MB wrote: »

Juli'St wrote: »

"- Blocking (strategically)
- Dodge rolling (strategically)
- Damage shield (pretty much spammable)"

lollllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllll

...or u make ONE or u make other. Combat end and u is death!

Its absurd the diference. GAME need change about it.

Can't even decipher what you are trying to say.

Nonetheless, here are some hints:
- 1 pc Bloodpsawn for stam regen
- Stam regen glyph
- Amberplasm for 300 stamina AND 300 magicka regen for 5th piece bonus (locked behind a paywall which is why I don't use it personally)
- Wear 5/1/1 for Undaunted Mettle passive to increase max stamina (and other stats)
- Ice Staff blocking consumes magicka and provides blocking mitigation almost on par with s+b
- Shadow Dancer is a magicka set that also gives stamina regen

Again, magicka users don't need the exact same damage mitigation mechanics as stamina uses have. However, there is nothing stopping you from building for stamina regen into a magicka build. Plus magicka uses have access to damage shields and ice staff.

ty for the info

Juli'St

"- Ice Staff blocking consumes magicka and provides blocking mitigation almost on par with s+b"

Dont understand this part. I have 2 ice staff's, but never give many atention to this (i use fire).

ShadowDancer - light armor. Sorry buddy, but to PvP, light armor not have any condition to fight. (maybe to sorc's)

Ahzek

Funnily enough, especially for mDK, blocking is much easier than for stam DK, because that + break free (only from fear) is pretty much the only stamina cost they have. On top of that, battleroar changes actually buffed their stamina sustain by a lot.

For templars magicka heals are way superior to anything a stam build could do.

NBs and Sorcs usually rely on a combiantion of kiting and big damage shields, which is different, but of similar effectiveness as the active mitigation for stam builds. Actually, they are the best tool to be prepared for all kinds of damage you will face, where block is very susceptible to DoTs and dodge has so many skills that plain ignore it it stopped being funny ages ago.

Mumyo

it really kills me that magsorc is such an exception.

Valencer

Magicka is way more useful for every kind of PvP from small scale to raids. In solo PvP both sides have their strengths and weaknesses but solo PvP is a joke anyway.

Been this way since abilities like destro ulti got added, and it's probably not going to change any time soon

Juli'St

Taylor gime good ideas, i ll test in future (need gold to glyph's - that with heal/mag/stam, multi-effect). I ll test with Seducer, Torug and Kagrenac (molag its a plus).

__________

Templar Mag

Asardes

Well things I see in my recap are usually sap essence, eye of the flame, radiant oppression, proximity detonation and mages wrath. From 5 different people. Stamina is clearly too strong!

Vaoh

NACtron wrote: »

Magicka dps is overall vastly superior for raid v raid/medium group play. So much so stamina dps has pratically no place in anything bigger than a group of 8 besides being a rapids/caltrops provider.

Stamina dps has strong advantages in 1v1, ganking and very small group play though magicka can be viable option if built right.

In my opinion stamina needs to be buffed just slightly so it can compete in raid v raid again. Not a huge buff. Frankly I find the balance to be acceptable enough right now. My Stamplar is for battlegrounds and running solo. My mag DK is for raid v raid large scale PvP.

For PvE? Stamina is no longer as bad as you think it is. They were buffed in Morrowind, mostly in the form of Magicka nerfs. With an organized raid group and the correct raid composition, Stamina builds should put out insane DPS that surpasses Magicka by more than a little, though this would mainly apply to boss fights (aka single target DPS as a whole) and would require them to be in melee range.

For PvP Stamina is stronger in general, but cannot compete in zerg fights. Magicka offers the Destro Ult and Negates.... you simply cannot beat that
Magicka Sorcerers in particular are bound to be prevalent because they provide both of those Ultimates at a reduced cost via passive and can Streak around for high mobility in laggy situations. Plus Magicka characters have damage shields that become quite powerful, especially because of the CP system and how AoE Caps mitigate their damage taken in ball groups. They're simply suited well to survive in severe lag.

Juli'St

Im learn a lot here.

doublestuffed

Juli'St wrote: »

"stamnb" - to me, a aberration in this game, need NERF.

Sounds like its more a l2p issue than needing a nerf.

IcyDeadPeople

In non-CP campaigns I have a little easier time with stamina characters.

In CP campaigns, they are both quite viable, but would be nice if Stamina had a few more class skills, such as poison morph of whip and stam morph of crystal blast.

So far in battlegrounds I've only tried a couple characters, so can't comment yet.

Juli'St

doublestuffed wrote: »

Juli'St wrote: »

"stamnb" - to me, a aberration in this game, need NERF.

Sounds like its more a l2p issue than needing a nerf.

just kidding of corse, all classes ll complain about anything or praise, etc.

Zvorgin

Juli'St wrote: »

Taylor_MB wrote: »

You guys need to get into cyrodiil.

Group fights are won because of magicka users, who have exclusive (apart from some *** warden stam morphs) access to:
- AoE burst healing
- Purge
- Destro Ult
- Negate
- Roots
- Damage shields

That is not to say stamina is useless, they have many strengths, but most of them are restricted to solo / small man / kiting.

Reading this thread was difficult, not going to lie.

I talk more about 1x1 or small pvp. mag need a better systen to block, but a MAG-system.

Blocking on a magDK is my favorite playstyle so I don't see this as an issue. Mag Sorcs don't need to block anyway, they have shields out the wazoo.

Eye of the Storm needs to be blockable and so many PvP issues would be fixed. That and get rid of proc sets and we'd be in the golden age of PvP.

Juli'St

Zvorgin wrote: »

Juli'St wrote: »

Taylor_MB wrote: »

You guys need to get into cyrodiil.

Group fights are won because of magicka users, who have exclusive (apart from some *** warden stam morphs) access to:
- AoE burst healing
- Purge
- Destro Ult
- Negate
- Roots
- Damage shields

That is not to say stamina is useless, they have many strengths, but most of them are restricted to solo / small man / kiting.

Reading this thread was difficult, not going to lie.

I talk more about 1x1 or small pvp. mag need a better systen to block, but a MAG-system.

Blocking on a magDK is my favorite playstyle so I don't see this as an issue. Mag Sorcs don't need to block anyway, they have shields out the wazoo.

Eye of the Storm needs to be blockable and so many PvP issues would be fixed. That and get rid of proc sets and we'd be in the golden age of PvP.

MagDK is amazing. I have one, but Stamina. My concern its about templar/warden.