How To Get All The Kills and Zero Deaths in BG's (No skill required)

Anti_Virus

Minalan wrote: »

Anti_Virus wrote: »

Minalan wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

Araviel2 wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

Araviel2 wrote: »

OP - i bet you won't be happy until ranged classes are completely removed from the game as this is typically how you play one.

OP is pointing out how a sorc can reliably steal every kill from his allies without anyone being able to do anything about it

yes, and i am trying to point out that its not just sorc's that can do this, but any ranged character.
and i am also saying that floating around out of harms way is typically how ranged characters are played (and should be played )

Gotta point out, only Sorcs can hit the execution prior to the health limit and then if anyone gets said player to 20% it's a sorc kill. At least all other ranged moves can't be used pre-emptively

That's good, but I'd still trade you for radiant destruction in a heartbeat.

Laying fury on a good player means they have four seconds to heal up, and take about 700 lightning damage tops.

Radiant however....

Radiant can also be bashed and blocked plus its a channel.

Radiant range was never changed, it can be spammed from a distance that you'll never bash it. It also kicks in at like half health, not 20%.

I'm not saying wrath is bad or anything, but it's outclassed here.

Good point.

Ahzek

I like to onslaught things.

thankyourat

Minalan wrote: »

Anti_Virus wrote: »

Minalan wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

Araviel2 wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

Araviel2 wrote: »

OP - i bet you won't be happy until ranged classes are completely removed from the game as this is typically how you play one.

OP is pointing out how a sorc can reliably steal every kill from his allies without anyone being able to do anything about it

yes, and i am trying to point out that its not just sorc's that can do this, but any ranged character.
and i am also saying that floating around out of harms way is typically how ranged characters are played (and should be played )

Gotta point out, only Sorcs can hit the execution prior to the health limit and then if anyone gets said player to 20% it's a sorc kill. At least all other ranged moves can't be used pre-emptively

That's good, but I'd still trade you for radiant destruction in a heartbeat.

Laying fury on a good player means they have four seconds to heal up, and take about 700 lightning damage tops.

Radiant however....

Radiant can also be bash ed and blocked plus its a channel.

Radiant range was never changed, it can be spammed from a distance that you'll never bash it. It also kicks in at like half health, not 20%.

I'm not saying wrath is bad or anything, but it's outclassed here.

I think it depends on who you are fighting. If you ate fighting a dk radiant is better. If your are fighting a nightblades fury is better. I think fury is better in more situations though because it can go off with other abilities. Where as if a players just cast healing ward radiant will never execute them. I don't think I've been executed by a solo radiant on my magblade in over 6 or 7 months

Vizier

SleepyTroll wrote: »

Just float around the outside of the real player and run when confronted.

This has always been a ridiculously over-performing spell.

Still, it is what it is regarding ranged combat players are just going to have to deal with it until scoring is changed. Should probably spread all points out among the group. Team is a team is a team. I'm actually kind of surprised they don't do that. (haven't played BG yet.)

Joy_Division

Waffennacht wrote: »

Araviel2 wrote: »

OP - i bet you won't be happy until ranged classes are completely removed from the game as this is typically how you play one.

OP is pointing out how a sorc can reliably steal every kill from his allies without anyone being able to do anything about it

That's how the spell is supposed to work. It's only "stealing" because ZoS has implemented a selfish score counter for a game played by mostly selfish people.

Minalan wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

Araviel2 wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

Araviel2 wrote: »

OP - i bet you won't be happy until ranged classes are completely removed from the game as this is typically how you play one.

OP is pointing out how a sorc can reliably steal every kill from his allies without anyone being able to do anything about it

yes, and i am trying to point out that its not just sorc's that can do this, but any ranged character.
and i am also saying that floating around out of harms way is typically how ranged characters are played (and should be played )

Gotta point out, only Sorcs can hit the execution prior to the health limit and then if anyone gets said player to 20% it's a sorc kill. At least all other ranged moves can't be used pre-emptively

That's good, but I'd still trade you for radiant destruction in a heartbeat.

Laying fury on a good player means they have four seconds to heal up, and take about 700 lightning damage tops.

Radiant however....

As someone who has a rank 40+ in both a magplar and a sorc, I'll keep telling people Endless Fury is a much more versatile skill and better in anything not an Xv1. But for years people thought I was just blindly defending templars.

Waffennacht

Joy_Division wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

Araviel2 wrote: »

OP - i bet you won't be happy until ranged classes are completely removed from the game as this is typically how you play one.

OP is pointing out how a sorc can reliably steal every kill from his allies without anyone being able to do anything about it

That's how the spell is supposed to work. It's only "stealing" because ZoS has implemented a selfish score counter for a game played by mostly selfish people.

Minalan wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

Araviel2 wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

Araviel2 wrote: »

OP - i bet you won't be happy until ranged classes are completely removed from the game as this is typically how you play one.

OP is pointing out how a sorc can reliably steal every kill from his allies without anyone being able to do anything about it

yes, and i am trying to point out that its not just sorc's that can do this, but any ranged character.
and i am also saying that floating around out of harms way is typically how ranged characters are played (and should be played )

Gotta point out, only Sorcs can hit the execution prior to the health limit and then if anyone gets said player to 20% it's a sorc kill. At least all other ranged moves can't be used pre-emptively

That's good, but I'd still trade you for radiant destruction in a heartbeat.

Laying fury on a good player means they have four seconds to heal up, and take about 700 lightning damage tops.

Radiant however....

As someone who has a rank 40+ in both a magplar and a sorc, I'll keep telling people Endless Fury is a much more versatile skill and better in anything not an Xv1. But for years people thought I was just blindly defending templars.

I'm not saying anything about wrath, just explaining why the system is flawed people keep trying to turn this into a "nerf wrath" or "defend wrath" thread, while it's neither.

Fake Remedy

I think kill stealing for points in a 4v4v4 arena is only being discussed here because the way ZOS and PVP Leads designed the current generalised medal reward system and distribution for each mode. Resulting in medal farming which the leaderboards currently reflect.

With a nice solo PvP build you'll hit many of the reward criteria (see below) against a role in a more traditional group premade (thinking back to DAoC, WAR, WOW) I healed 1.1m in a Deathmatch the other day and got a weak amount of medals and am no where to be seen in that leaderboard however I'm in the top 5 EU for Land Grab leaderboard.

Dealing damage
Healing
Making killing blows
Earning kill streaks
Capturing or defending flags
Taking damage
Healing flag carriers or defenders

OP why not ss or fraps your play? Aside from the leaderboards what's it matter?

TLDR - Don't hate the player, hate the game.

P.S Shouts to those premades currently running BGs off peak, even that one full pve destro ulti group. Can't wait to play against more in the future.

@shown

Brutusmax1mus

ToRelax wrote: »

Brutusmax1mus wrote: »

ToRelax wrote: »

Brutusmax1mus wrote: »

frostbreeze wrote: »

Y lets nerf a perfectly balanced skill just because sorcs pass you in points.What they should do is award you for total damage done to the player like with ap.But I bet thats super difficult for ZoS to implement

This was designed with pve on mind and not pvp. Non player controlled occurrences are a reason this game is not a great pvp game and has no esport.

Nonsense, there's no point whatsoever for a design like Endless Fury in PvE.

Pve it doesn't matter bc its a game. It's a fine effective for killing monsters. In PvP or just another awful design by zos

I literally have no idea what you're trying to say with the first two sentences. With the last one you're stating your personal opinion, which I do not agree with. My point stands, however; Mage's Fury is highly unlikely to have been developed without PvP in mind. In fact, it's last change, making the execute proc instantly when cast, was needed in PvP, not PvE.

Araviel2 wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

Araviel2 wrote: »

OP - i bet you won't be happy until ranged classes are completely removed from the game as this is typically how you play one.

OP is pointing out how a sorc can reliably steal every kill from his allies without anyone being able to do anything about it

yes, and i am trying to point out that its not just sorc's that can do this, but any ranged character.
and i am also saying that floating around out of harms way is typically how ranged characters are played (and should be played )

You don't take the killing blows as easily with other ranged classes, no.

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

RinaldoGandolphi wrote: »

Another nerf Sorc thread...imagine that

Sure, considering every other execute in the game got nerfed. Yes, that went live.

I don't really get why you bring this in here now. That doesn't even have an effect on battlegrounds in the first place.

There are some auto corrects there. Either way, in pvp anything that does not require action from a player is bad design. Example, shuffle. If mages wraths execute component procd when you hit someone in execute range, than I'd say it's fine. The fact it can sit on someone and happen the instant the threshold is met is what makes it a bad design for pvp. In PvE, who the F cares, you're fighting monsters together. It's a great spell in pve.

Don't get me wrong, i enjoy pvp with it's luck based occurrences and procs. I enjoy the game a lot. I do think that this execute will cause issues with scoring as it obviously has already, due to it's poor design for PVP.

Kas

imho scores are absolutely fine and balanced... unlike queues, queues, and once queues are fixed: matchmaking that doesn't try to create equally storng teams.

what is the problem? the few double kills aside, you get jsut as many points for assists as you do for kills. at the same time, non-sorcs have a much easier time getting a few healing medals as well. "stealing" across teams is a huge factor but you can play around that by focusing the sorcs that would potentially shield. plus, due to streak being blocked with relics and rather bad access to snares at the side of sorcs, I think magsorcs actually have itr rather rough in ctf (still very doable)


it's true that I have grouped up with sorcs that ended up with more lasthits than me - but most of the time i actually get more medals on both, stamplar and warden (don't worry, fully done except undaunted and pvp passives & equipeed, i'm not one of those that bring underlevelled chars to bgs)

Jurand80

if you want to land a solo kill then go dueling. this is a team game. get it through your skull. ...there was alway that one whiny kid @ the PLAYgrounds.

edit:
just remembered. we called him the "fire engine". there's a monster set for ya.

Lore_lai

Minalan wrote: »

Radiant range was never changed, it can be spammed from a distance that you'll never bash it. It also kicks in at like half health, not 20%.

I'm not saying wrath is bad or anything, but it's outclassed here.

Wrong.
Radiant execute threshold is much lower than tooltip value says. I think around 35%
Because of how the bonus damage calculates based on health %, you are better off using other attacks until you hit the ideal threshold. Even as you hit the threshold you won't get that full bonus damage until the target is at very low health.

Honestly - I'd rather they just get rid of this nonsense with 50% that everyone panics about, make it a flat bonus at a lower threshold.

I've always found it much, much easier to get kills with Fury than with Radiant, especially after all the nerfs. And I bet now it will be even worse because our resource pools will be more stressed, and Oppression has a DMG modifier that scales off of your current magicka pool.

Minalan

Lore_lai wrote: »

Minalan wrote: »

Radiant range was never changed, it can be spammed from a distance that you'll never bash it. It also kicks in at like half health, not 20%.

I'm not saying wrath is bad or anything, but it's outclassed here.

Wrong.
Radiant execute threshold is much lower than tooltip value says. I think around 35%
Because of how the bonus damage calculates based on health %, you are better off using other attacks until you hit the ideal threshold. Even as you hit the threshold you won't get that full bonus damage until the target is at very low health.

Honestly - I'd rather they just get rid of this nonsense with 50% that everyone panics about, make it a flat bonus at a lower threshold.

I've always found it much, much easier to get kills with Fury than with Radiant, especially after all the nerfs. And I bet now it will be even worse because our resource pools will be more stressed, and Oppression has a DMG modifier that scales off of your current magicka pool.

Still. 35% > 20%. I would still trade.

I'm not arguing that it's overpowered, just better. The range, the damage, and the cap are better. IMO the damage should never have been nerfed on it.

Plus there's the 'oh ***' factor, when someone has a radiant on them they are going to do something about it in a sudden panic. LOS. Bash. Cloak. Panic shield. Run like hell. Die. It's great.

Brutusmax1mus

Radiant at 35%can easily be healed through. Block healing makes it a joke and puts the templar in an awkward "yes i tried to soon didn't i" stare with the enemy.

Baconlad

You compare a skill that allows you to cast it and forget about it, allowing you to let ur curse and frags hit with the damage of fury going off like a proc.

You compare it to a skill that you have to the player down to a certain threshhold and PRAY they are stupid enough not to heal up. The only time radiant is worth a damn is when you cast a flare javelin combo into radiant. At 50% health and full magick it hits like ***. You have to have other skills to bring him down before you cast it. Fury OP.

Ironically i use the flare combo frequently XD so i will be a kill stealing sunofabitch as well

Lore_lai

Minalan wrote: »

Still. 35% > 20%. I would still trade.

I'm not arguing that it's overpowered, just better. The range, the damage, and the cap are better. IMO the damage should never have been nerfed on it.

Plus there's the 'oh ***' factor, when someone has a radiant on them they are going to do something about it in a sudden panic. LOS. Bash. Cloak. Panic shield. Run like hell. Die. It's great.

And I'd take that trade any day. Beam for Fury? heck yeah!
Also you do understand that that big % modifier kicks in in its fullest only when the target is really low. So that big phat 330%? Yeah - only when you have a sliver of health.
That's why I'm saying I'd rather have a lower execute % and a flat execute bonus across the board.
Well...that and I'd love to have an instant-cast execute than a channeled one.

Also.
The range is the same - all ranged executes currently have the same range. 28m before Battle Spirit and Cyro passives.

leepalmer95

Oh no! Endless fury is useful for the first time since release...

It's not the worst execute in bg's we must nerf it because we're still crying about mag sorc's in pvp in 2017.

DemonDruaga

Yeah it sucks a bit in this case, but outside of bgs in our small scale group it is quite nice if my sorc buddy auto kills everything that get low health from my attacks.

RinaldoGandolphi

Endless Fury doesn't always go off though, it can be buggy at times and simply not work at all....have the enemy at 20% and it never explodes(even if pre-casted 2 seconds before that), allowing the target to heal....so its not as reliable.

Prior to the scaling bug with damage % Executes, Nightblades Impale with increased range was the best execute in the game by a long shot....and after the percentage scaling is fixed it will be better then Fury.

Once damage percentage scaling executes are fixed, Impale will be the games best execute.

HoloYoitsu

SleepyTroll wrote: »

Just float around the outside of the real player and run when confronted.

I see you watched my tutorial, OP. Or perhaps you starred in it?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ol_Tnjv5khY

Lore_lai

RinaldoGandolphi wrote: »

Endless Fury doesn't always go off though, it can be buggy at times and simply not work at all....have the enemy at 20% and it never explodes(even if pre-casted 2 seconds before that), allowing the target to heal....so its not as reliable.

Prior to the scaling bug with damage % Executes, Nightblades Impale with increased range was the best execute in the game by a long shot....and after the percentage scaling is fixed it will be better then Fury.

Once damage percentage scaling executes are fixed, Impale will be the games best execute.

I have never seen Fury do that. Besides - even if that were the case - that is a bug and you are presenting it as a feature of the execute. If you think it's bugged - submit a ticket and try to get it fixed.
I also don't see how Impale can be better than Fury, but maybe @NightbladeMechanics can shed some light on this.

Kilandros

It is indeed frustrating having KBs poached by Endless Fury, especially on my DK where I depend on on Ult generation from killing blows for sustain.

Kilandros

HoloYoitsu wrote: »

SleepyTroll wrote: »

Just float around the outside of the real player and run when confronted.

I see you watched my tutorial, OP. Or perhaps you starred in it?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ol_Tnjv5khY

This is a whole other level of Endless Fury spam

bubbygink

To those saying stuff like "don't be selfish," and "it's a team game so who care if your teammate gets the kill," the issue here isnt that your teammate can "steal the kill," it's that an enemy sorc can steal your kills by simply keeping endless fury on every target you focus. If orange team is fighting green team, a purple sorc can just keep endless fury up on every target getting focused and passively steal all the kills. This can't be done with any other execute (arguably you could hold radiant on a target but this has many more counters). This is clearly bad gameplay that allows a couple sorcs on one team to assure victory by doing nothing but spamming fury at a distance when the other two teams are fighting.

So my suggestion is that fury could be changed to something like "when the enemy takes damage from an ally that reduces the enemy's health below 20%, deal X magic damage to the enemy." Obviously the sorc himself would be included in "ally" so that he could proc the execute himself too. Additionally, if an enemy brought the target to say 18% (doesn't proc because an enemy did it) and then your ally hit the enemy and brought him from say 18% to 10% that would count as "reducing the enemy's health below 20%" and proc the skill too. This change would prevent the passive cross-team kill stealing without hurting the effectiveness of the skill at all. Only your own team could proc the skill by dsmaging the enemy down to below 20% or hitting the enemy when he's below 20% already. So to steal a kill from another team you'd have to actually time the endless fury when the enemy was already below 20% (so the initial fury damage would proc the execute for you) or you or an ally have to hit the target that fury was on with another skill to actively take the kill. This wouldn't change anything in typical 1v1 or 1 team v. 1 team encounters. And it wouldn't change anything if you roll up on two teams fighting and actually start focusing targets yourself. It would only prevent passive kill stealing from two other teams who are fighting while you do nothing but spam the execute on targets getting low who aren't yet in execute so that you can passively steal the kill from the other team.

SleepyTroll

HoloYoitsu wrote: »

SleepyTroll wrote: »

Just float around the outside of the real player and run when confronted.

I see you watched my tutorial, OP. Or perhaps you starred in it?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ol_Tnjv5khY

My post was made 2 days before you uploaded your video. But after watching your video it looks like you guys took the advice of my post. Good job

Derra

Am i the only one massively irritated that OP literally links a skill as the definition of no skill required?

Pleb.

SleepyTroll

Derra wrote: »

Am i the only one massively irritated that OP literally links a skill as the definition of no skill required?

Pleb.

It's pretty simple really. You as the player using the sorc don't have to have any skill in the game( you are the pleb). You just need one magicka ability. Reading comprehension, is hard I know

Hutch679

Way to fix this is to give assists or kills credit to every player that assisted in killing that person. Healers should get heal credit and trophies for being top of leaderboard. Limiting a leader board to kills is kind of lame.

NightbladeMechanics

Lore_lai wrote: »

RinaldoGandolphi wrote: »

Endless Fury doesn't always go off though, it can be buggy at times and simply not work at all....have the enemy at 20% and it never explodes(even if pre-casted 2 seconds before that), allowing the target to heal....so its not as reliable.

Prior to the scaling bug with damage % Executes, Nightblades Impale with increased range was the best execute in the game by a long shot....and after the percentage scaling is fixed it will be better then Fury.

Once damage percentage scaling executes are fixed, Impale will be the games best execute.

I have never seen Fury do that. Besides - even if that were the case - that is a bug and you are presenting it as a feature of the execute. If you think it's bugged - submit a ticket and try to get it fixed.
I also don't see how Impale can be better than Fury, but maybe @NightbladeMechanics can shed some light on this.

Bug aside, it's not. Fury has the same range, only 5% lower threshold, can be layered into global cooldowns with other abilities, has no travel time, and most importantly cannot be dodged. Impale also has an ancient bug where it sometimes just doesn't deal damage at all. I would take Fury over Impale 100%.

Rinaldo's posts in this thread show he's clearly biased toward sorcs. That's all.

leepalmer95

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

Lore_lai wrote: »

RinaldoGandolphi wrote: »

Endless Fury doesn't always go off though, it can be buggy at times and simply not work at all....have the enemy at 20% and it never explodes(even if pre-casted 2 seconds before that), allowing the target to heal....so its not as reliable.

Prior to the scaling bug with damage % Executes, Nightblades Impale with increased range was the best execute in the game by a long shot....and after the percentage scaling is fixed it will be better then Fury.

Once damage percentage scaling executes are fixed, Impale will be the games best execute.

I have never seen Fury do that. Besides - even if that were the case - that is a bug and you are presenting it as a feature of the execute. If you think it's bugged - submit a ticket and try to get it fixed.
I also don't see how Impale can be better than Fury, but maybe @NightbladeMechanics can shed some light on this.

Bug aside, it's not. Fury has the same range, only 5% lower threshold, can be layered into global cooldowns with other abilities, has no travel time, and most importantly cannot be dodged. Impale also has an ancient bug where it sometimes just doesn't deal damage at all. I would take Fury over Impale 100%.

Rinaldo's posts in this thread show he's clearly biased toward sorcs. That's all.

You can dodge fury can't you?

Does fury still have the problem of having double to chance of its execute being dodged by major evasion?

E.g. 15% to dodge the first initial hit and therefore the execute portion not go off
Another 15% chance to dodge to actual execute portion even when it goes off

NightbladeMechanics

leepalmer95 wrote: »

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

Lore_lai wrote: »

RinaldoGandolphi wrote: »

Endless Fury doesn't always go off though, it can be buggy at times and simply not work at all....have the enemy at 20% and it never explodes(even if pre-casted 2 seconds before that), allowing the target to heal....so its not as reliable.

Prior to the scaling bug with damage % Executes, Nightblades Impale with increased range was the best execute in the game by a long shot....and after the percentage scaling is fixed it will be better then Fury.

Once damage percentage scaling executes are fixed, Impale will be the games best execute.

I have never seen Fury do that. Besides - even if that were the case - that is a bug and you are presenting it as a feature of the execute. If you think it's bugged - submit a ticket and try to get it fixed.
I also don't see how Impale can be better than Fury, but maybe @NightbladeMechanics can shed some light on this.

Bug aside, it's not. Fury has the same range, only 5% lower threshold, can be layered into global cooldowns with other abilities, has no travel time, and most importantly cannot be dodged. Impale also has an ancient bug where it sometimes just doesn't deal damage at all. I would take Fury over Impale 100%.

Rinaldo's posts in this thread show he's clearly biased toward sorcs. That's all.

You can dodge fury can't you?

Does fury still have the problem of having double to chance of its execute being dodged by major evasion?

E.g. 15% to dodge the first initial hit and therefore the execute portion not go off
Another 15% chance to dodge to actual execute portion even when it goes off

I'm talking about dodge roll, which is much more relevant because it's reactionary. I'm not sure about Major Evasion, but that doesn't matter since Impale is dodgeable by Major Evasjon too.