Best Monster Helm for Tank

Tasear

Mighty Chudan

Depends on build and playstle.

WalksonGraves

Pirate Skeleton

Oompuh wrote: »

WalksonGraves wrote: »

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

WalksonGraves wrote: »

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

WalksonGraves wrote: »

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

WalksonGraves wrote: »

Dks only like bs because they have garbage ult generation, Pirate Skeleton is by far the best helm. Whoever said the proc lowers your block needs to lay off the skooma.

@WalksonGraves

Pirate skeleton is not worn by any tank that's cleared vMoL on HM. Not even close to the best monster set for tanks.

I don't care what they use, nbs arent starved for ult so they don't need bs. Ever other monster set is useless, pirate skeleton is like a free ult.

The dk vmol meta is a shameful *** of the tank class made to cheese through. The old meta is a buff maid in stam dps gear and the new morrowind builds are just laughable hp stacking.

I'll stick with 45k hp and 92% dr over 70k hp and 78% dr. My build is getting even better since more boss attacks are getting classed properly as aoe.

@WalksonGraves You said Pirate was the best. I am merely correcting you. Further, many of the most experience tanks are not running bloodspawn on DKs. Lord Warden is currently often used as it offers some help to the group, especially melee in trials.

Further, this will change in the upcoming expansion even further. I can tell you from running with groups in vMoL pirate is not needed and there are much better sets to run.

But heck, you can run what you want to as long was you raid lead is fine with it.

Not a fan of lord warden, never seen melee trials dps. 5 meters is just too small a circle to be useful.

@WalksonGraves

How many vet trials have you tanked and have you cleared vMoL? Vet trials, not normal.

I ask because just a few weeks ago you created a thread stating you can count on one hand how many trials you have been able to attempt. The more challenging content is really where the BiS sets are determined.

Only hm I completed was hel ra but it's not due to my build, people who run vmol already have a set meta that excludes unknowns. High dr mitigates a huge amount of damage and makes for better tanks than hp stacking. It's a superior build due to simple math I don't need to waste my time getting a vmol group together for the sake of proving people wrong.

That your main tank has guard used on him instead of the other way around speaks volumes.

Do you mean vet? Because in your last trial post you had only completed vHRC and on Xbox, there are very few guilds around even running HM trials.

Yeah my bad I meant vet hel ra

techprince

paulsimonps wrote: »

techprince wrote: »

I use Bloodspawn where i am going to get hit from multiple sources/going to get hit rapidly/going to get hit by DOTs.
I use Lord Warden against slow hitting bosses without adds. Mostly in trials as it benefits them the most.
Pirate Skeleton will become useful after update 14 with 10% proc chance which i will start using in dungeons in place of my current Lord Warden simply because my playstyle includes me using Invigorating Drain on bosses to keep warhorn uptime on 95-100%.
I have Scourge Harverster but i havent used it anywhere.
After update 14, Engine Guardian will become more popular as new tanks will struggle to sustain.
Mighty Chudan is a nice set for stam templar and nb tanks as they dont have Major Resistance buff that follows them around for the entire duration. Sure they can use Unstoppable skill but it costs 4800 stamina which is HUGE.

So all sets have their purpose.

NB's get Major Ward and Resolve from activating a Shadow ability. Its only Templar tanks that have to be stationary to get Major Ward and Resolve with their Rune Focus, but they do still get it for 8s after leaving said Rune Focus. So its not all that bad for them either.

Mighty Chudan shines in situations where you have to continuously move with the boss. Nightblades will get 6 seconds uptime per cast. Refreshing path is useless in those situations. Same goes for templars with rune focus.

deleted008293

One piece of advice, you can't always meta if your raid group is lets say mediocre at best. In those conditions you might consider having some changes in your build. Mighty Chudan ain't at all that bad as most of you can say. You get a ton of resists (that mean you can use those resources to better use) and extra hp so much needed if your healers don't know well their job.

Bloodspawn procs on... hits but what if the enemies actually miss?

Lord warden? Maybe if you don't move much.

So there is no best set for tanking. Best thing to do as a tank is to adapt to the situation.

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO

Blood Spawn

paulsimonps wrote: »

techprince wrote: »

I use Bloodspawn where i am going to get hit from multiple sources/going to get hit rapidly/going to get hit by DOTs.
I use Lord Warden against slow hitting bosses without adds. Mostly in trials as it benefits them the most.
Pirate Skeleton will become useful after update 14 with 10% proc chance which i will start using in dungeons in place of my current Lord Warden simply because my playstyle includes me using Invigorating Drain on bosses to keep warhorn uptime on 95-100%.
I have Scourge Harverster but i havent used it anywhere.
After update 14, Engine Guardian will become more popular as new tanks will struggle to sustain.
Mighty Chudan is a nice set for stam templar and nb tanks as they dont have Major Resistance buff that follows them around for the entire duration. Sure they can use Unstoppable skill but it costs 4800 stamina which is HUGE.

So all sets have their purpose.

NB's get Major Ward and Resolve from activating a Shadow ability. Its only Templar tanks that have to be stationary to get Major Ward and Resolve with their Rune Focus, but they do still get it for 8s after leaving said Rune Focus. So its not all that bad for them either.

Well what Paul said is true, in class options are better, you don't need to use unstoppable, you can use the skill "balance" from the mages guild line, gives the buff you ask for for basically free and for like 30 seconds, only 20% of your health, with the passives, and gives you magic back too, like 12% of your max health in magic back, great skill.

Massive_Stain

Lord warden for stack and burn. BS for ulti gen. Chudan for extra slot. Pirate skeleton, shadow rend for morrowind resource management. Sentinal for off tank. I missed the hybrids because hybrids are cancer.

brandonv516

Engine Guardian

The problem with pirate skeleton is that (at least for me) sometimes I notice it takes you out of block when it morphs. It's annoying, otherwise I'd probably use it more.

FearlessOne_2014

Engine Guardian

With the new gear sets and resource issues. I'm going put my bet on EG after Morrowind release. Because that's pretty much free regen. You can sub other sets. But in my opinion EG is just going to be the best for both PvP and PvE in one helm.

techprince

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

paulsimonps wrote: »

techprince wrote: »

I use Bloodspawn where i am going to get hit from multiple sources/going to get hit rapidly/going to get hit by DOTs.
I use Lord Warden against slow hitting bosses without adds. Mostly in trials as it benefits them the most.
Pirate Skeleton will become useful after update 14 with 10% proc chance which i will start using in dungeons in place of my current Lord Warden simply because my playstyle includes me using Invigorating Drain on bosses to keep warhorn uptime on 95-100%.
I have Scourge Harverster but i havent used it anywhere.
After update 14, Engine Guardian will become more popular as new tanks will struggle to sustain.
Mighty Chudan is a nice set for stam templar and nb tanks as they dont have Major Resistance buff that follows them around for the entire duration. Sure they can use Unstoppable skill but it costs 4800 stamina which is HUGE.

So all sets have their purpose.

NB's get Major Ward and Resolve from activating a Shadow ability. Its only Templar tanks that have to be stationary to get Major Ward and Resolve with their Rune Focus, but they do still get it for 8s after leaving said Rune Focus. So its not all that bad for them either.

Well what Paul said is true, in class options are better, you don't need to use unstoppable, you can use the skill "balance" from the mages guild line, gives the buff you ask for for basically free and for like 30 seconds, only 20% of your health, with the passives, and gives you magic back too, like 12% of your max health in magic back, great skill.

Balance is for HP builds.

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO

Blood Spawn

techprince wrote: »

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

paulsimonps wrote: »

techprince wrote: »

I use Bloodspawn where i am going to get hit from multiple sources/going to get hit rapidly/going to get hit by DOTs.
I use Lord Warden against slow hitting bosses without adds. Mostly in trials as it benefits them the most.
Pirate Skeleton will become useful after update 14 with 10% proc chance which i will start using in dungeons in place of my current Lord Warden simply because my playstyle includes me using Invigorating Drain on bosses to keep warhorn uptime on 95-100%.
I have Scourge Harverster but i havent used it anywhere.
After update 14, Engine Guardian will become more popular as new tanks will struggle to sustain.
Mighty Chudan is a nice set for stam templar and nb tanks as they dont have Major Resistance buff that follows them around for the entire duration. Sure they can use Unstoppable skill but it costs 4800 stamina which is HUGE.

So all sets have their purpose.

NB's get Major Ward and Resolve from activating a Shadow ability. Its only Templar tanks that have to be stationary to get Major Ward and Resolve with their Rune Focus, but they do still get it for 8s after leaving said Rune Focus. So its not all that bad for them either.

Well what Paul said is true, in class options are better, you don't need to use unstoppable, you can use the skill "balance" from the mages guild line, gives the buff you ask for for basically free and for like 30 seconds, only 20% of your health, with the passives, and gives you magic back too, like 12% of your max health in magic back, great skill.

Balance is for HP builds.

Balance works for everyone, not sure why you think you need an "hp build". I actually run it on my magic dk, most healers I have ran with don't support at all, so I need a way to get mag back. I have 18k health and the skill trades 3.6k health for 2.1k mag and i get the major resists for 30 seconds, better then just 30% off one skill after cast.

techprince

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

techprince wrote: »

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

paulsimonps wrote: »

techprince wrote: »

I use Bloodspawn where i am going to get hit from multiple sources/going to get hit rapidly/going to get hit by DOTs.
I use Lord Warden against slow hitting bosses without adds. Mostly in trials as it benefits them the most.
Pirate Skeleton will become useful after update 14 with 10% proc chance which i will start using in dungeons in place of my current Lord Warden simply because my playstyle includes me using Invigorating Drain on bosses to keep warhorn uptime on 95-100%.
I have Scourge Harverster but i havent used it anywhere.
After update 14, Engine Guardian will become more popular as new tanks will struggle to sustain.
Mighty Chudan is a nice set for stam templar and nb tanks as they dont have Major Resistance buff that follows them around for the entire duration. Sure they can use Unstoppable skill but it costs 4800 stamina which is HUGE.

So all sets have their purpose.

NB's get Major Ward and Resolve from activating a Shadow ability. Its only Templar tanks that have to be stationary to get Major Ward and Resolve with their Rune Focus, but they do still get it for 8s after leaving said Rune Focus. So its not all that bad for them either.

Well what Paul said is true, in class options are better, you don't need to use unstoppable, you can use the skill "balance" from the mages guild line, gives the buff you ask for for basically free and for like 30 seconds, only 20% of your health, with the passives, and gives you magic back too, like 12% of your max health in magic back, great skill.

Balance is for HP builds.

Balance works for everyone, not sure why you think you need an "hp build". I actually run it on my magic dk, most healers I have ran with don't support at all, so I need a way to get mag back. I have 18k health and the skill trades 3.6k health for 2.1k mag and i get the major resists for 30 seconds, better then just 30% off one skill after cast.

Arent we talking about tanks here?

essi2

Blood Spawn

Blood Spawn, but I haven't experimented alot with the other sets.

F7sus4

Lord Warden

essi2 wrote: »

Blood Spawn, but I haven't experimented alot with the other sets.

Those words describe Blood Spawn users perfectly.

essi2

Blood Spawn

F7sus4 wrote: »

essi2 wrote: »

Blood Spawn, but I haven't experimented alot with the other sets.

Those words describe Blood Spawn users perfectly.

Don't fix it, if it ain't broke

From the list presented by OP, the only sets I would put in doubt are Swarm Mother and Pirate Skeleton.

FoulSnowpaw

Engine Guardian

Resources.

Engine Guardian.

Flameheart

Blood Spawn

essi2 wrote: »

F7sus4 wrote: »

essi2 wrote: »

Blood Spawn, but I haven't experimented alot with the other sets.

Those words describe Blood Spawn users perfectly.

Don't fix it, if it ain't broke

From the list presented by OP, the only sets I would put in doubt are Swarm Mother and Pirate Skeleton.

True. At least Bloodspawn and Lord Warden are now nr. 1 and nr. 2 in the vote list. Seems as if most people still have some clue.

As the OP doesn't mention DKs as tanks exlusively, Swarm Mother is great for non DK Tanks and for trash while doing 4-man-stuff. Being able to pile up mobs as a tank to serve them to AoEdps, is still a nice bonus.

I do even understand Engine Guardian when you do 4-man-stuff in PUGs as a tank and you don't have prismatic enchants and don't want to waste dozens of pots and where loads of healers are around who think their only job is healing and never heard anything about support. Reminds me for a random group on weekend where we were 4 templars - all well over 300 CPs - and the only templar who used shards and repetance was me - as the tank...No need to mention that there was not a single bubble and no elemental drain on any mob, but it seemed ok for the DDs to light attack a boss at 50%, maybe it's their usual experience. Interesting fact too, to do almost 20% group dps as a tank in a support build...

...but ok, the later one will end hopefully from now on. I sense much CAPS-Lock speech in PUG group chats from now on.

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO

Blood Spawn

techprince wrote: »

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

techprince wrote: »

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

paulsimonps wrote: »

techprince wrote: »

I use Bloodspawn where i am going to get hit from multiple sources/going to get hit rapidly/going to get hit by DOTs.
I use Lord Warden against slow hitting bosses without adds. Mostly in trials as it benefits them the most.
Pirate Skeleton will become useful after update 14 with 10% proc chance which i will start using in dungeons in place of my current Lord Warden simply because my playstyle includes me using Invigorating Drain on bosses to keep warhorn uptime on 95-100%.
I have Scourge Harverster but i havent used it anywhere.
After update 14, Engine Guardian will become more popular as new tanks will struggle to sustain.
Mighty Chudan is a nice set for stam templar and nb tanks as they dont have Major Resistance buff that follows them around for the entire duration. Sure they can use Unstoppable skill but it costs 4800 stamina which is HUGE.

So all sets have their purpose.

NB's get Major Ward and Resolve from activating a Shadow ability. Its only Templar tanks that have to be stationary to get Major Ward and Resolve with their Rune Focus, but they do still get it for 8s after leaving said Rune Focus. So its not all that bad for them either.

Well what Paul said is true, in class options are better, you don't need to use unstoppable, you can use the skill "balance" from the mages guild line, gives the buff you ask for for basically free and for like 30 seconds, only 20% of your health, with the passives, and gives you magic back too, like 12% of your max health in magic back, great skill.

Balance is for HP builds.

Balance works for everyone, not sure why you think you need an "hp build". I actually run it on my magic dk, most healers I have ran with don't support at all, so I need a way to get mag back. I have 18k health and the skill trades 3.6k health for 2.1k mag and i get the major resists for 30 seconds, better then just 30% off one skill after cast.

Arent we talking about tanks here?

Well yeah but why would you insist on a baseless statement that you need a "hp build" when clearly the skill is great(okay, better then unstoppable for tank but not as good as in class options) no matter what your health pool is?

techprince

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

techprince wrote: »

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

techprince wrote: »

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

paulsimonps wrote: »

techprince wrote: »

I use Bloodspawn where i am going to get hit from multiple sources/going to get hit rapidly/going to get hit by DOTs.
I use Lord Warden against slow hitting bosses without adds. Mostly in trials as it benefits them the most.
Pirate Skeleton will become useful after update 14 with 10% proc chance which i will start using in dungeons in place of my current Lord Warden simply because my playstyle includes me using Invigorating Drain on bosses to keep warhorn uptime on 95-100%.
I have Scourge Harverster but i havent used it anywhere.
After update 14, Engine Guardian will become more popular as new tanks will struggle to sustain.
Mighty Chudan is a nice set for stam templar and nb tanks as they dont have Major Resistance buff that follows them around for the entire duration. Sure they can use Unstoppable skill but it costs 4800 stamina which is HUGE.

So all sets have their purpose.

NB's get Major Ward and Resolve from activating a Shadow ability. Its only Templar tanks that have to be stationary to get Major Ward and Resolve with their Rune Focus, but they do still get it for 8s after leaving said Rune Focus. So its not all that bad for them either.

Well what Paul said is true, in class options are better, you don't need to use unstoppable, you can use the skill "balance" from the mages guild line, gives the buff you ask for for basically free and for like 30 seconds, only 20% of your health, with the passives, and gives you magic back too, like 12% of your max health in magic back, great skill.

Balance is for HP builds.

Balance works for everyone, not sure why you think you need an "hp build". I actually run it on my magic dk, most healers I have ran with don't support at all, so I need a way to get mag back. I have 18k health and the skill trades 3.6k health for 2.1k mag and i get the major resists for 30 seconds, better then just 30% off one skill after cast.

Arent we talking about tanks here?

Well yeah but why would you insist on a baseless statement that you need a "hp build" when clearly the skill is great(okay, better then unstoppable for tank but not as good as in class options) no matter what your health pool is?

Baseless? show me how many stamina tanks use balance and i will show you how many HP tanks use balance. You derailed by going into "magdk" where the entire thread is about tanks only. Hell even magicka tanks use unstoppable simply because it costs opposite resource.

Nifty2g

Blood Spawn

paulsimonps wrote: »

WalksonGraves wrote: »

leepalmer95 wrote: »

WalksonGraves wrote: »

paulsimonps wrote: »

WalksonGraves wrote: »

paulsimonps wrote: »

WalksonGraves wrote: »

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

WalksonGraves wrote: »

Dks only like bs because they have garbage ult generation, Pirate Skeleton is by far the best helm. Whoever said the proc lowers your block needs to lay off the skooma.

@WalksonGraves

Pirate skeleton is not worn by any tank that's cleared vMoL on HM. Not even close to the best monster set for tanks.

I don't care what they use, nbs arent starved for ult so they don't need bs. Ever other monster set is useless, pirate skeleton is like a free ult.

The dk vmol meta is a shameful *** of the tank class made to cheese through. The old meta is a buff maid in stam dps gear and the new morrowind builds are just laughable hp stacking.

I'll stick with 45k hp and 92% dr over 70k hp and 78% dr. My build is getting even better since more boss attacks are getting classed properly as aoe.

Blocking, Average resistance say 27k, Minor Maim, Sword and Board Passive, Absorb Magic, DK's Iron Skin and average CP. These are things all DK Tanks have and you land at 83.761% That is what most tanks regardless of class will land at. Not sure what tanks you are referring to that only gets 78%

oh noes 5%

That's funny. you say that but adding major protection to that same value gives an increase of less than 5%. It would go from 83.761% to 88.633% So your argument for Pirate skeleton is "oh noes 5%"

Big difference between forgetting a passive that does jack in forum calculations and dr cap.
88% takes 12% damage, 94% takes 6%. That's a huge difference in terms of damage taken.

I use the assassin poly that might be why I never noticed the bug. Pretty simple work around I can't believe you even complained if it's that simple to avoid.

Don't tanks drop horn for increase group dps?

Nbs have better ult gen, bs is just overkill.

Actually as long as you do a 1-2-3-4 type rotation on your warhorns and never do any accidental double horns, BS is overkill on DK's too.

Just because something is overkill doesn't mean it's not good.

Lets dissect hardmode rakkhat pad 5 burn for example, when I was tanking for my group, we were not using bloodspawn for a little while because we didn't think it was useful, this is a HUGE common misconception that is misinformation to the public. We were missing so much burst opportunity on Pad 3 because the warhorn that was meant to go off was just a few seconds behind the second wave of meteors that come from sorcerers. Swapping to bloodspawn fixed this for Pad 3 and Pad 4/5 burst line ups.

You might not gain another warhorn with bloodspawn a lot of the times, but it helps you line up your major force without having to save a warhorn resulting in any dps loss.

Bloodspawn is not at all overkill, if you actually utilise it within your group properly.

You can see a good example of not having a warhorn in time for the burst in this video
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7J-77FP3AJ4

and swapping to bloodspawn on this one you can see the warhorn going off at the right time
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=98h90vaylD4

I believed the whole bloodspawn is meh if you have a warhorn rotation for awhile until I started noticing I wasn't lining up with ultimates and just a second off, sure it's not the end of the world but if you want to minmax, then swap to bloodspawn so you can match up with your DPS ultimate regen and create good burst opportunities

Merlin13KAGL

techprince wrote: »

Mighty Chudan shines in situations where you have to continuously move with the boss. Nightblades will get 6 seconds uptime per cast. Refreshing path is useless in those situations. Same goes for templars with rune focus.

@techprince, templars will actually get 8s + however long they stand in the focus, so can be as high as 23, but 8 would be the absolute minimum.

techprince

Merlin13KAGL wrote: »

techprince wrote: »

Mighty Chudan shines in situations where you have to continuously move with the boss. Nightblades will get 6 seconds uptime per cast. Refreshing path is useless in those situations. Same goes for templars with rune focus.

@techprince, templars will actually get 8s + however long they stand in the focus, so can be as high as 23, but 8 would be the absolute minimum.

I know.... but i specifically mentioned "Continuously move with the boss". Just an example of such encounters : vDSA stage 4.

paulsimonps

Nifty2g wrote: »

paulsimonps wrote: »

WalksonGraves wrote: »

leepalmer95 wrote: »

WalksonGraves wrote: »

paulsimonps wrote: »

WalksonGraves wrote: »

paulsimonps wrote: »

WalksonGraves wrote: »

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

WalksonGraves wrote: »

Dks only like bs because they have garbage ult generation, Pirate Skeleton is by far the best helm. Whoever said the proc lowers your block needs to lay off the skooma.

@WalksonGraves

Pirate skeleton is not worn by any tank that's cleared vMoL on HM. Not even close to the best monster set for tanks.

I don't care what they use, nbs arent starved for ult so they don't need bs. Ever other monster set is useless, pirate skeleton is like a free ult.

The dk vmol meta is a shameful *** of the tank class made to cheese through. The old meta is a buff maid in stam dps gear and the new morrowind builds are just laughable hp stacking.

I'll stick with 45k hp and 92% dr over 70k hp and 78% dr. My build is getting even better since more boss attacks are getting classed properly as aoe.

Blocking, Average resistance say 27k, Minor Maim, Sword and Board Passive, Absorb Magic, DK's Iron Skin and average CP. These are things all DK Tanks have and you land at 83.761% That is what most tanks regardless of class will land at. Not sure what tanks you are referring to that only gets 78%

oh noes 5%

That's funny. you say that but adding major protection to that same value gives an increase of less than 5%. It would go from 83.761% to 88.633% So your argument for Pirate skeleton is "oh noes 5%"

Big difference between forgetting a passive that does jack in forum calculations and dr cap.
88% takes 12% damage, 94% takes 6%. That's a huge difference in terms of damage taken.

I use the assassin poly that might be why I never noticed the bug. Pretty simple work around I can't believe you even complained if it's that simple to avoid.

Don't tanks drop horn for increase group dps?

Nbs have better ult gen, bs is just overkill.

Actually as long as you do a 1-2-3-4 type rotation on your warhorns and never do any accidental double horns, BS is overkill on DK's too.

Just because something is overkill doesn't mean it's not good.

Lets dissect hardmode rakkhat pad 5 burn for example, when I was tanking for my group, we were not using bloodspawn for a little while because we didn't think it was useful, this is a HUGE common misconception that is misinformation to the public. We were missing so much burst opportunity on Pad 3 because the warhorn that was meant to go off was just a few seconds behind the second wave of meteors that come from sorcerers. Swapping to bloodspawn fixed this for Pad 3 and Pad 4/5 burst line ups.

You might not gain another warhorn with bloodspawn a lot of the times, but it helps you line up your major force without having to save a warhorn resulting in any dps loss.

Bloodspawn is not at all overkill, if you actually utilise it within your group properly.

You can see a good example of not having a warhorn in time for the burst in this video
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7J-77FP3AJ4

and swapping to bloodspawn on this one you can see the warhorn going off at the right time
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=98h90vaylD4

I believed the whole bloodspawn is meh if you have a warhorn rotation for awhile until I started noticing I wasn't lining up with ultimates and just a second off, sure it's not the end of the world but if you want to minmax, then swap to bloodspawn so you can match up with your DPS ultimate regen and create good burst opportunities

In the first video the main tank has used his warhorn before the video properly starts as the buff tracker shows a warhorn about 1.5-2s in and he has no ultimate, after only 8s of that ultimate you hear someone say, "my horn", had that ultimate not happened then but later, then you would have had Major Force still up for that ulti nuke. In the 2nd video the warhorn even drops completely for about 5s. Neither the 10% resources nor any Major Force there.

As I said, if you do the rotation right it is overkill, cause it all depends on the Healers.

Lets look at some ultigen:

Base 3u/s
Minor 1u/1.5s
Major 18u/8s 20s CD
Synergizer 2u/synergy 20s CD per Synergy
DK's Mountain's blessing 3u/6s
Bloodspawn 6% chance on damage 15u 6s CD
Templar's Prism 3u per Dawn's Wrath ability used 6s CD
Templar's Restoring Spirit 4% Less cost

Warhorn cost 250u 30s timer 9.5s timer for Major Force
Templar Warhorn cost 240u

2 DK Tanks

2 Templar Healers

"Common Meta Ulti gen"

Healers base+Prism+Restoring Spirit=3.5u/s with cost 240=~68.6s to regain warhorn, this counts perfect uptime on prism
Tank base+minor+mountain's blessing=4.1666667u/s with cost of 250=60s to regain warhorn, this counts perfect uptime on mountain's blessing

1-2-3-4 Best possible uptime is 55% or a warhorn every 17.15s This is requires perfect uptime on the templars prism and that the horns are perfectly timed. If you do this then tanks extra ulitgen does nothing.

Now those numbers are unrealistic cause no one is gonna have perfect uptime on that and so if you want an equal spacing of the horns then it needs to be closer to 20s or more between them. The healers are the weak link. But I also saw that that is not what you guys are doing, you are wanting horns at specific times. This causes the tanks to require a much higher ultigen then normally to get theirs up in time for the correct timing of the warhorns. So we are discussing two different scenarios. You are not doing an equal spacing rotation at all, while I was referring to just that. And so since you are doing it differently then I would recommend it yes. Cause it seems like your main tank is not wanting to bar swap at all or I would have recommended using Invigorating drain from the vampire skill line. The off tank at the very least should use that a lot if you are pushing horns for specific ulti drop scenarios. But from what I saw of those videos, though in truth it was hard to tell most of the time, he did not use it even when not having taunt on anything.

Br1ckst0n

Lord Warden

paulsimonps wrote: »

In the first video the main tank has used his warhorn before the video properly starts as the buff tracker shows a warhorn about 1.5-2s in and he has no ultimate, after only 8s of that ultimate you hear someone say, "my horn", had that ultimate not happened then but later, then you would have had Major Force still up for that ulti nuke. In the 2nd video the warhorn even drops completely for about 5s. Neither the 10% resources nor any Major Force there.

As I said, if you do the rotation right it is overkill, cause it all depends on the Healers.

Lets look at some ultigen:

Base 3u/s
Minor 1u/1.5s
Major 18u/8s 20s CD
Synergizer 2u/synergy 20s CD per Synergy
DK's Mountain's blessing 3u/6s
Bloodspawn 6% chance on damage 15u 6s CD
Templar's Prism 3u per Dawn's Wrath ability used 6s CD
Templar's Restoring Spirit 4% Less cost

Warhorn cost 250u 30s timer 9.5s timer for Major Force
Templar Warhorn cost 240u

2 DK Tanks

2 Templar Healers

"Common Meta Ulti gen"

Healers base+Prism+Restoring Spirit=3.5u/s with cost 240=~68.6s to regain warhorn, this counts perfect uptime on prism
Tank base+minor+mountain's blessing=4.1666667u/s with cost of 250=60s to regain warhorn, this counts perfect uptime on mountain's blessing

1-2-3-4 Best possible uptime is 55% or a warhorn every 17.15s This is requires perfect uptime on the templars prism and that the horns are perfectly timed. If you do this then tanks extra ulitgen does nothing.

Now those numbers are unrealistic cause no one is gonna have perfect uptime on that and so if you want an equal spacing of the horns then it needs to be closer to 20s or more between them. The healers are the weak link. But I also saw that that is not what you guys are doing, you are wanting horns at specific times. This causes the tanks to require a much higher ultigen then normally to get theirs up in time for the correct timing of the warhorns. So we are discussing two different scenarios. You are not doing an equal spacing rotation at all, while I was referring to just that. And so since you are doing it differently then I would recommend it yes. Cause it seems like your main tank is not wanting to bar swap at all or I would have recommended using Invigorating drain from the vampire skill line. The off tank at the very least should use that a lot if you are pushing horns for specific ulti drop scenarios. But from what I saw of those videos, though in truth it was hard to tell most of the time, he did not use it even when not having taunt on anything.

Exactly this, its only worth to increase your ultigen if you get to the point where you can do every third horn and the others being in a rotation. This also is possible but extremely hard to pull off while in a fight. If you try it via bloodspawn its very unreliable.

WalksonGraves

Pirate Skeleton

Funny thing is I never see dks talk about using passive dodging to set enemies off balance and that is a 10% dps increase triggering continously. Talking about 15% crit dam for 9 seconds like its god mode while ignoring 10% always.

Liofa

WalksonGraves wrote: »

Funny thing is I never see dks talk about using passive dodging to set enemies off balance and that is a 10% dps increase triggering continously. Talking about 15% crit dam for 9 seconds like its god mode while ignoring 10% always.

Do you know what is more funny ? You can get the same effect with a single skill called Lightning Blockade . It also has a chance to cause concussion which applies Minor Vulnerability . I use (and other party members , mostly healers) Charged Lightning Staff with Shock enchant on it on my back bar . Putting Blockade down , which will proc that Shock enchant . That Shock enchant has 88% chance to apply Concussion which means it will also proc Off-Balance . This is a mechanic known by every player that knows the game . It is reliable and doesn't depend on RNG unlike your passive dodging . No one is ignoring Exploiter passive . Ok , how about this . 1k penetration equals to around 2% damage increase . You , Leki+Reactive user , ignore 6% damage increase against all mobs you hit with the synergy by not using Alkosh . And for what ? Being more tanky while stunned . And coming here , talking like nobody knows about Exploiter passive while it is clearly you who don't know about it . You need to lay off the Skooma asap .

paulsimonps

WalksonGraves wrote: »

Funny thing is I never see dks talk about using passive dodging to set enemies off balance and that is a 10% dps increase triggering continously. Talking about 15% crit dam for 9 seconds like its god mode while ignoring 10% always.

Liofa wrote: »

WalksonGraves wrote: »

Funny thing is I never see dks talk about using passive dodging to set enemies off balance and that is a 10% dps increase triggering continously. Talking about 15% crit dam for 9 seconds like its god mode while ignoring 10% always.

Do you know what is more funny ? You can get the same effect with a single skill called Lightning Blockade . It also has a chance to cause concussion which applies Minor Vulnerability . I use (and other party members , mostly healers) Charged Lightning Staff with Shock enchant on it on my back bar . Putting Blockade down , which will proc that Shock enchant . That Shock enchant has 88% chance to apply Concussion which means it will also proc Off-Balance . This is a mechanic known by every player that knows the game . It is reliable and doesn't depend on RNG unlike your passive dodging . No one is ignoring Exploiter passive . Ok , how about this . 1k penetration equals to around 2% damage increase . You , Leki+Reactive user , ignore 6% damage increase against all mobs you hit with the synergy by not using Alkosh . And for what ? Being more tanky while stunned . And coming here , talking like nobody knows about Exploiter passive while it is clearly you who don't know about it . You need to lay off the Skooma asap .

Like what Liofa said, Healers and DPS gives out Off Balance all the time already, only a few bosses are immune to this and only then will the tactician be giving a huge boost, but in most situtations, we already have both. And you only need 1 ability and some CP allocation to pull off the Tactician set up. Its not like we can't do that and Warhorns. The big discussion on the thread is monster sets. What you mentioned does not touch on the subject at all since the off balance proc is not done by a mosnter set. The ultimate discussion is in line with the topic on the thread cause its about Bloodspawn.

Br1ckst0n

Lord Warden

Liofa wrote: »

WalksonGraves wrote: »

Funny thing is I never see dks talk about using passive dodging to set enemies off balance and that is a 10% dps increase triggering continously. Talking about 15% crit dam for 9 seconds like its god mode while ignoring 10% always.

Do you know what is more funny ? You can get the same effect with a single skill called Lightning Blockade . It also has a chance to cause concussion which applies Minor Vulnerability . I use (and other party members , mostly healers) Charged Lightning Staff with Shock enchant on it on my back bar . Putting Blockade down , which will proc that Shock enchant . That Shock enchant has 88% chance to apply Concussion which means it will also proc Off-Balance . This is a mechanic known by every player that knows the game . It is reliable and doesn't depend on RNG unlike your passive dodging . No one is ignoring Exploiter passive . Ok , how about this . 1k penetration equals to around 2% damage increase . You , Leki+Reactive user , ignore 6% damage increase against all mobs you hit with the synergy by not using Alkosh . And for what ? Being more tanky while stunned . And coming here , talking like nobody knows about Exploiter passive while it is clearly you who don't know about it . You need to lay off the Skooma asap .

If you want an increased chance from charged you will that trait on frontbar aka where you spend most of your time.

paulsimonps

Br1ckst0n wrote: »

Liofa wrote: »

WalksonGraves wrote: »

Funny thing is I never see dks talk about using passive dodging to set enemies off balance and that is a 10% dps increase triggering continously. Talking about 15% crit dam for 9 seconds like its god mode while ignoring 10% always.

Do you know what is more funny ? You can get the same effect with a single skill called Lightning Blockade . It also has a chance to cause concussion which applies Minor Vulnerability . I use (and other party members , mostly healers) Charged Lightning Staff with Shock enchant on it on my back bar . Putting Blockade down , which will proc that Shock enchant . That Shock enchant has 88% chance to apply Concussion which means it will also proc Off-Balance . This is a mechanic known by every player that knows the game . It is reliable and doesn't depend on RNG unlike your passive dodging . No one is ignoring Exploiter passive . Ok , how about this . 1k penetration equals to around 2% damage increase . You , Leki+Reactive user , ignore 6% damage increase against all mobs you hit with the synergy by not using Alkosh . And for what ? Being more tanky while stunned . And coming here , talking like nobody knows about Exploiter passive while it is clearly you who don't know about it . You need to lay off the Skooma asap .

If you want an increased chance from charged you will that trait on frontbar aka where you spend most of your time.

The big thing is to have the charged on the staff you have the shock glyph on, Gold charged destro staff makes the glyph have a 80% proc chance of concussion.

WalksonGraves

Pirate Skeleton

Liofa wrote: »

WalksonGraves wrote: »

Funny thing is I never see dks talk about using passive dodging to set enemies off balance and that is a 10% dps increase triggering continously. Talking about 15% crit dam for 9 seconds like its god mode while ignoring 10% always.

Do you know what is more funny ? You can get the same effect with a single skill called Lightning Blockade . It also has a chance to cause concussion which applies Minor Vulnerability . I use (and other party members , mostly healers) Charged Lightning Staff with Shock enchant on it on my back bar . Putting Blockade down , which will proc that Shock enchant . That Shock enchant has 88% chance to apply Concussion which means it will also proc Off-Balance . This is a mechanic known by every player that knows the game . It is reliable and doesn't depend on RNG unlike your passive dodging . No one is ignoring Exploiter passive . Ok , how about this . 1k penetration equals to around 2% damage increase . You , Leki+Reactive user , ignore 6% damage increase against all mobs you hit with the synergy by not using Alkosh . And for what ? Being more tanky while stunned . And coming here , talking like nobody knows about Exploiter passive while it is clearly you who don't know about it . You need to lay off the Skooma asap .

You realize that the reactive reduction lasts longer than the cc if you break out right? It also procs on every blocked heavy attack which is generally when you need the most reduction.

My off balance uptime is incredibly high and affects the entire fight regardless of distance and I can dodge roll to set everything off balance. If I want to eliminate rng I use glory but it's not necessary because dodge procs often enough on it's own.

woe has limited range, it's a poor substitute.

Not everything is about vmol btw, 4 man dungeon tanks don't have the luxury of getting carried by the group.

idk

WalksonGraves wrote: »

Funny thing is I never see dks talk about using passive dodging to set enemies off balance and that is a 10% dps increase triggering continously. Talking about 15% crit dam for 9 seconds like its god mode while ignoring 10% always.

@WalksonGraves

Because it's not needed. We use other means to achieve the same benefit. Lightning WoE is the start of multiple debuffs on the target.

WoE is not a poor substitute and the range is fine. Is someone is not able to hit the target with WoE due tomorrow distance then they're doing something wrong, or running the back room in Rakkhat.

Essentially, raid teams run coordinated. Many of the players posting here are fairly experienced in trials and some run with and even lead top competitive teams on their servers.