[ZOS] Rework or remove cancel casting

BuddyAces

adeptusminor wrote: »

Can we make it so all casting requires the proper reagements to be equipped in each hand on the character, squiggly lines drawn on the ground using the mouse or controller, and the correct incantations of the magic words spoken into a microphone done before each spell fires off? If any of these are done even slightly incorrectly, the magic doesn't cast or even could backfire, causing damage to our own character. That would really help my immersion, thanks in advance.

Haha

SilverWF

Allow cancel cast animation by light or heavy attacks or another skill cast

jcm2606 wrote: »

SilverWF wrote: »

Why video with that guy popped here? How does it proves a point that this is NOT a bad game design.
At 3th page I am repeating that this is bad game design. 'Design' ~= 'bug'
Please, hand up who cant understand that.

jcm2606 wrote: »

Again, if animation cancelling were removed, you'd want it added back in the moment you feel how sluggish the combat system is. Go into any decently hard veteran dungeon and wait for the whole animation of every action to complete before starting another. Wait for your character to return to the idle pose. Do that, then maybe we can talk. Until then, you have no idea what you're talking about, and if you had your way, you would ruin the game for everybody.

Again? Wow
Seriously, how many time surrounding you ppl usually talking to you the same things in hope you'll finally get them?
Personally me, again, in 100th time, specially for you, supporting the idea allowing AC with anything. It's even literally above any of my posts - poll option.

But you still talking to me, that removing AC is bad. Are you OK?

You're advocating the removal of bash, and hence block cancelling. I have pointed out several times now that bash/block cancelling alone is central to this game's combat system, and that removing bash/block cancelling would ruin the game for everybody. What part of that don't you understand?

Every part of animation cancelling is there for a reason, and is there to allow you to perform those actions reliably. I'm going to say this one last time. Run through a decently hard veteran dungeon, when you want to use an action, wait for the entire animation of the previous action to finish. Want to block? Wait for your character to return to the idle pose. Want to hit a heal to stay alive? Wait for your character to return to the idle pose. Want to roll out of the way of an attack? Wait for your character to return to the idle pose.

Until you do this, you have absolutely no idea what you're talking about. You have absolutely no idea why animation cancelling is a thing in the first place. And for this reason, Zenimax will never take your advice, because they know your advice will turn the quick and fluid combat system we have now into a sluggish and clunky mess, ruining the game for everybody.

/thread

The only thing I'm 'advocating' here is an idea that this crap is broken as hell and their inability to fix it makes it even funnier
As I said above: if it's feature - make it optional, cmon!

'Every part of animation cancelling is there for a reason' - oh, really? Care to post any reason why it can't be done with any action or just animations can't be removed? Lol

Lol, protectors of nothing, similar to 'avengers' from comics

Lol, man, no wonder if your surroundings calling you as special, because you are STILL talking with me as I suggesting to remove AC completely. I just have no idea what else to say to you.

Probably you never played other MMOs (that hasn't that crappy designed skills), that's fine from one side and bad from other.

ESO never was and never would be an e-sport discipline (unlike BnS) and guess why? ah, you'll failed in your guessing anyway

So, why even care? Allow AC with ANY action!

ganj1234

SilverWF wrote: »

jcm2606 wrote: »

SilverWF wrote: »

Why video with that guy popped here? How does it proves a point that this is NOT a bad game design.
At 3th page I am repeating that this is bad game design. 'Design' ~= 'bug'
Please, hand up who cant understand that.

jcm2606 wrote: »

Again, if animation cancelling were removed, you'd want it added back in the moment you feel how sluggish the combat system is. Go into any decently hard veteran dungeon and wait for the whole animation of every action to complete before starting another. Wait for your character to return to the idle pose. Do that, then maybe we can talk. Until then, you have no idea what you're talking about, and if you had your way, you would ruin the game for everybody.

Again? Wow
Seriously, how many time surrounding you ppl usually talking to you the same things in hope you'll finally get them?
Personally me, again, in 100th time, specially for you, supporting the idea allowing AC with anything. It's even literally above any of my posts - poll option.

But you still talking to me, that removing AC is bad. Are you OK?

You're advocating the removal of bash, and hence block cancelling. I have pointed out several times now that bash/block cancelling alone is central to this game's combat system, and that removing bash/block cancelling would ruin the game for everybody. What part of that don't you understand?

Every part of animation cancelling is there for a reason, and is there to allow you to perform those actions reliably. I'm going to say this one last time. Run through a decently hard veteran dungeon, when you want to use an action, wait for the entire animation of the previous action to finish. Want to block? Wait for your character to return to the idle pose. Want to hit a heal to stay alive? Wait for your character to return to the idle pose. Want to roll out of the way of an attack? Wait for your character to return to the idle pose.

Until you do this, you have absolutely no idea what you're talking about. You have absolutely no idea why animation cancelling is a thing in the first place. And for this reason, Zenimax will never take your advice, because they know your advice will turn the quick and fluid combat system we have now into a sluggish and clunky mess, ruining the game for everybody.

/thread

The only thing I'm 'advocating' here is an idea that this crap is broken as hell and their inability to fix it makes it even funnier
As I said above: if it's feature - make it optional, cmon!

'Every part of animation cancelling is there for a reason' - oh, really? Care to post any reason why it can't be done with any action or just animations can't be removed? Lol

Lol, protectors of nothing, similar to 'avengers' from comics

Lol, man, no wonder if your surroundings calling you as special, because you are STILL talking with me as I suggesting to remove AC completely. I just have no idea what else to say to you.

Probably you never played other MMOs (that hasn't that crappy designed skills), that's fine from one side and bad from other.

ESO never was and never would be an e-sport discipline (unlike BnS) and guess why? ah, you'll failed in your guessing anyway

So, why even care? Allow AC with ANY action!

1. Animation cancelling is not broken. It has a learning curve, so if you can't take the time to learn it, then I'm sorry but you're going to be subpar at this game.

2. Animations should not be removed because that would stupid and boring for new players. Nuff said.

3. eso is not in e-sports because we have no cool downs, and we have proc sets and lag up the wazoo. Not because we are able to block cast/swap cast skills. League of Legends, a massive MOBA and pillar of the esports community, actually has animation cancelling. Functions a little differently, but nevertheless, it is a learned skill that will inherently provide you advantages in combat.

SilverWF

Allow cancel cast animation by light or heavy attacks or another skill cast

Lol, you are the 1st one who comparing ESO ith MOBA crap like LOL.
Well, it's EVEN funnier now than were before

FYI, no any real MMORPGs has similar stuff that we have here with AC.

Extinct_Solo_Player

it's really simple, L2P or GTFO.

SilverWF

Allow cancel cast animation by light or heavy attacks or another skill cast

Extinct_Solo_Player wrote: »

it's really simple, L2P or GTFO.

Not, you

Juhasow

All is fine, do not touch it at all

SilverWF wrote: »

Lol, you are the 1st one who comparing ESO ith MOBA crap like LOL.
Well, it's EVEN funnier now than were before

FYI, no any real MMORPGs has similar stuff that we have here with AC.

Oh boy so ESO is "not real MMORPG " now . Damm we've been fooled all that time it's fake MMORPG that have too fast combat so it cannot be called real MMORPG anymore.

LOL

You do realize You could find atleast 1 feature that is unique for certain title in almost every MMO ? You just dont like the one in ESO but this is just Your personal opinion.

ATomiX96

All is fine, do not touch it at all

the combat system is fine, the game has other flaws the devs should start working on before considering changes for non critical stuff.

p.s.: who uses macros in 2018? if you cant anim cancel then you suck at the game, you can learn it literally within an hour OMEGALUL

dodgehopper_ESO

I would rather they had weapon combinations like DCUO if they're going to stick with this road but its anyone's guess what they have in mind for the future of the game.

MehrunesFlagon

All is fine, do not touch it at all

Gorilla wrote: »

@ResTandRespeC

Hell yes it's prevalent, and not just on PCs. I can't count the number of times I've seen certain players stack skills in a way that no human could do repetitively. There are even farming guilds here where I live in Manila that will set you up with the process.

The game is broken so we are stuck with ani cancelling, macros, etc. You can argue ad nauseum but it's clear the game is being played contrary to original design.

But, it's the best we have (for consoles) so until there is another, better MMO, my philosophy is to just find fun in it where we can.

For the record I light weave. That's my sin, lol. Well, that and wine, women and song...

Yeah then we have to wait for the long ass endless hail animation to end.No thanks.

d3adkid

All is fine, do not touch it at all

They will fix it somewhat, end up effing it up and lose customers for sure.
Let things be as they are. Always be happy with what you have rather than expecting what it could have been.

MehrunesFlagon

All is fine, do not touch it at all

ZeroXFF wrote: »

What would however be good for the game is if light attacks and skills were put on the same global cooldown, and the skills and sets requiring light attack weaving were adjusted accordingly. Maybe put the bar swap on the same GCD too to put people with high latency at a smaller disadvantage and make people treat a bar swap like drawing an actual separate weapon rather than an extension of the front bar. But block cancelling and dodge roll cancelling must stay, it's what makes this game what it is, a fast-paced action MMO..

Don't think ruining merciless resolve or Relequen would be even remotely ggod.

Wifeaggro13

Remove possibility to block or swap panels until your character has stopped animation

Gorilla wrote: »

@jcm2606

They have adapted the content to ani cancelling. It was not originally intended as a feature to be used by all to max dps and stack burst in pvp without signalling. This has been clearly discussed by them in 2014, prior to 1.5. It was viewed as an unintended consequence that they eventually embraced since they couldn't repair game design.

This here is truth they are to far deep in now. they desined content in end game with Ani canceling in mind as your DPS meta . its one of the more Bazaar decisions by a development team.

DivineFirstYOLO

All is fine, do not touch it at all

SilverWF wrote: »

Lol, you are the 1st one who comparing ESO ith MOBA crap like LOL.
Well, it's EVEN funnier now than were before

FYI, no any real MMORPGs has similar stuff that we have here with AC.

Yes, that is why the combat in ESO is so awesome. If you want to play a game with lame combat then I can recommend you trying out TERA.

Micah_Bayer

All is fine, do not touch it at all

GreenSoup2HoT wrote: »

Animation canceling looks trashy though not gonna lie.

I think it looks cool, makes someone I am fighting look really fast paced and skilled.

DanteYoda

Remove possibility to block or swap panels until your character has stopped animation

nnargun wrote: »

Uviryth wrote: »

I dont understand why we even have animatons. Why not remove all this annoyances and just make a popup-list of what kind of damage we want to do. Then a button pops up and we click it as fast as we can. After that they can make a summary how the fight went. Voila, combat in ESO in a nutshell.

Seriously, this games combat is a joke in the mmo-community.

Nice try.

Hes kinda right though compared to other mmo's ESO combat is laughed at.

BigBragg

All is fine, do not touch it at all

DanteYoda wrote: »

nnargun wrote: »

Uviryth wrote: »

I dont understand why we even have animatons. Why not remove all this annoyances and just make a popup-list of what kind of damage we want to do. Then a button pops up and we click it as fast as we can. After that they can make a summary how the fight went. Voila, combat in ESO in a nutshell.

Seriously, this games combat is a joke in the mmo-community.

Nice try.

Hes kinda right though compared to other mmo's ESO combat is laughed at.

Really? I have never come across that. Guess I should get out more.

idk

All is fine, do not touch it at all

DanteYoda wrote: »

nnargun wrote: »

Uviryth wrote: »

I dont understand why we even have animatons. Why not remove all this annoyances and just make a popup-list of what kind of damage we want to do. Then a button pops up and we click it as fast as we can. After that they can make a summary how the fight went. Voila, combat in ESO in a nutshell.

Seriously, this games combat is a joke in the mmo-community.

Nice try.

Hes kinda right though compared to other mmo's ESO combat is laughed at.

Odd that you are playing ESO and making this comment and more so since you did not bother to mention any MMORPGs to give your comment credibility.

Jhalin

All is fine, do not touch it at all

Guess what in FFXIV you can also cancel bits of the animations of skills. Granted not near as much as in ESO, about half a second to avoid cancelling it. But that combat also feels clunky as all hell. I can’t react to enemies, I can’t react to mechanics, I can’t juke abilities because then I must completely halt my ability usage. Animation canceling is vital to smooth flowing combat.

Just learn how. You undoubtedly do it already without noticing, now learn how to do it intentionally.

SilverWF

Allow cancel cast animation by light or heavy attacks or another skill cast

DivineFirstYOLO wrote: »

SilverWF wrote: »

Lol, you are the 1st one who comparing ESO ith MOBA crap like LOL.
Well, it's EVEN funnier now than were before

FYI, no any real MMORPGs has similar stuff that we have here with AC.

Yes, that is why the combat in ESO is so awesome. If you want to play a game with lame combat then I can recommend you trying out TERA.

TERA or BnS combat is much more competitive than we have here. (BnS even an e-sport game)

And if you still didin't know, with good designed skills, players are pairing up different skills, to make them synergy with each other and with animations too (ending of one skill animation would be similar to starting animation of another)
This is not like "who cares if I can just press block and pair up any skill with each other, no brainer crap"

Feature is not equal to bug

DocFrost72

@SilverWF

Did you know that the animation for abilities fire after the damage is calulated and removed from your health?

SilverWF

Allow cancel cast animation by light or heavy attacks or another skill cast

DocFrost72 wrote: »

@SilverWF

Did you know that the animation for abilities fire after the damage is calulated and removed from your health?

I know, that animation here is not mandatory part of the skill and can be 100% skipped.

Uviryth

Jhalin wrote: »

Animation canceling is vital to smooth flowing combat.

Thats pretty much the cornerstone of broken combatmechanics. In order to work smoothly you have to break your character.

Just learn how. You undoubtedly do it already without noticing, now learn how to do it intentionally.

Ist not that its not doable, I think most players know how. The problem is that its stupid. Like Three Stooges, Ren and Stimpy, Dumb and Dumber-stupid.
I can honestly feel getting dumber while doing stuff like that. It makes me a worse gamer. You can really feel that when trying to play Dark Souls, or Nioh, or Monster Hunter World, after doing too much ESO-Combat.

Jhalin

All is fine, do not touch it at all

Uviryth wrote: »

Jhalin wrote: »

Animation canceling is vital to smooth flowing combat.

Thats pretty much the cornerstone of broken combatmechanics. In order to work smoothly you have to break your character.

Just learn how. You undoubtedly do it already without noticing, now learn how to do it intentionally.

Ist not that its not doable, I think most players know how. The problem is that its stupid. Like Three Stooges, Ren and Stimpy, Dumb and Dumber-stupid.
I can honestly feel getting dumber while doing stuff like that. It makes me a worse gamer. You can really feel that when trying to play Dark Souls, or Nioh, or Monster Hunter World, after doing too much ESO-Combat.

Then this isn’t the game for you, as you clearly enjoy the playstyle of other games. Animation canceling is due to action priorities. You can’t have a chance to react to the game without an action priority system. It is ingrained it the very core of effectiveness combat.

It’d be stupid to remove the entire existing combat system just because some people don’t know how to handle their character not looking like the epitome of grace at every moment. It’s working as intended, and has been confirmed as such multiple times.

DocFrost72

SilverWF wrote: »

DocFrost72 wrote: »

@SilverWF

Did you know that the animation for abilities fire after the damage is calulated and removed from your health?

I know, that animation here is not mandatory part of the skill and can be 100% skipped.

Okay, so how does animation canceling affect "reaction time?"

Uviryth

Jhalin wrote: »

Then this isn’t the game for you, as you clearly enjoy the playstyle of other games. Animation canceling is due to action priorities. You can’t have a chance to react to the game without an action priority system. It is ingrained it the very core of effectiveness combat.

It’d be stupid to remove the entire existing combat system just because some people don’t know how to handle their character not looking like the epitome of grace at every moment. It’s working as intended, and has been confirmed as such multiple times.

I know that. Thats why I stopped playing the game. A shame, I really like the story and the world and the overall feel of the environment. But, as you said, the Combat is too much of an annoyance for me to ignore.