noCP The Definitive PvP Experience per ZOS?

Durham

Prince_of_all_Pugs wrote: »

Crispen_Longbow wrote: »

I personally think its a great time for the major guilds to move over to the NO CP as that is the direction ZOS wants to head.

That's an interesting proposal Crispen, for EP guilds DR would be down for that. don't know if the other TF ep guilds are down though.

You will want to when those excess Had people (3bars on the weekend) come to EP Trueflame

Rickter

One of my guildies, @Dreyloch , brought up a very compelling argument. He said (and correct me if i misquote)

for me, PvP is all i do, it IS the game for me. So why am i collecting all these Champion Points for if i can't use them in PvP?

I dont have a preference either way at this point. I only think its a good thing that ZOS is making things a little more clear as to their intentions but that doesnt mean im a 100% proponent of noCP. I have encountered unkillable infinite sustain builds on both campaigns. There are members of <Sooper Dooper> i run into that just cannot be killed. There are some <Harzan Pact> guys that stay alive far longer than they should. its not a noCP thing.

so do i think noCP fixes anything? lag? cancer builds? no i dont. do i think its more fun? honestly? its the same. PvP is PvP.


One glaring question however: Why go through the trouble of pushing the PvP intent/direction to noCP but balance the CP to where unreasonable sustain is addressed? Seems like they couldnt just balanced the CP and made everything CP enabled.

Minno

Durham wrote: »

Sallington wrote: »

Crispen_Longbow wrote: »

I personally think its a great time for the major guilds to move over to the NO CP as that is the direction ZOS wants to head.

It would be great if all the competitive guilds moved to no-CP at the start of Morrowind.

It will not happen most will sit through huge Qs... and most will leave PVP... Most players do not like the idea of losing CP... but most people do not like the upcoming patch so it fits into the new ZOS customer relations meta... let's give the minority of players what they want while the majority can just deal with it....

No company can survive this mentality in the end...

Unless of course they are following the majority, of casual newer players that will not be grinding CP for weeks or listened to the feedback of pve casual guilds that said "PvP is fun again!" During the nCP week. I distinctly remember zone chat being incredibly positive that week.

Though it doesn't matter. It's just a game, and while I can't force zos to make you play nCP, you can't force me to play CP. Unless of course the maker of the game feels the changes will give the game more life .

Durham

I have several in my guild that will not go to no CP.. We have gamed together for 15 years ... I'm not sure what we will do... but 50+ Qs on True are unacceptable

DHale

A great place for the bad players to hide and the good players to soak up ap.

Minno

Durham wrote: »

I have several in my guild that will not go to no CP.. We have gamed together for 15 years ... I'm not sure what we will do... but 50+ Qs are unacceptable

Have they given it a months time? Even for a week nCP is a flavor that's tough to get used to.

Durham

Minno wrote: »

Durham wrote: »

Sallington wrote: »

Crispen_Longbow wrote: »

I personally think its a great time for the major guilds to move over to the NO CP as that is the direction ZOS wants to head.

It would be great if all the competitive guilds moved to no-CP at the start of Morrowind.

It will not happen most will sit through huge Qs... and most will leave PVP... Most players do not like the idea of losing CP... but most people do not like the upcoming patch so it fits into the new ZOS customer relations meta... let's give the minority of players what they want while the majority can just deal with it....

No company can survive this mentality in the end...

Unless of course they are following the majority, of casual newer players that will not be grinding CP for weeks or listened to the feedback of pve casual guilds that said "PvP is fun again!" During the nCP week. I distinctly remember zone chat being incredibly positive that week.

Though it doesn't matter. It's just a game, and while I can't force zos to make you play nCP, you can't force me to play CP. Unless of course the maker of the game feels the changes will give the game more life .

I remember no CP week also and it was incredibly negative because of lag on had.... although it was because it was locked....

It doesn't matter in the end like you said... I do believe they are trying to make it easier for new players... However most of my guild does not like noCP so im in a rock and a hard place...

apostate9

Iyas wrote: »

See ya in the cp campaign queue..

No you won't.

apostate9

timidobserver wrote: »

It's a risk but they need to just swap Vivek to noncp.

Yep.

Durham

Minno wrote: »

Durham wrote: »

I have several in my guild that will not go to no CP.. We have gamed together for 15 years ... I'm not sure what we will do... but 50+ Qs are unacceptable

Have they given it a months time? Even for a week nCP is a flavor that's tough to get used to.

Some have but they do not like it as a point ... They believe that CP was earned and a form of progression...

apostate9

Durham wrote: »

Minno wrote: »

Durham wrote: »

I have several in my guild that will not go to no CP.. We have gamed together for 15 years ... I'm not sure what we will do... but 50+ Qs are unacceptable

Have they given it a months time? Even for a week nCP is a flavor that's tough to get used to.

Some have but they do not like it as a point ... They believe that CP was earned and a form of progression...

It was earned. There's no question. They earned it. But exercising it in PVP is breaking the game. I thought the goal was to tame it so that it wouldn't, but it seems ZOS still isn't sure PvP wouldn't be better off without it. So...maybe ask your comrades to give it a try?

Sallington

If ZOS left CPs out of Battleground, then they obviously view the CP systems as something that makes PvP unbalanced.

Why would they choose to then leave it a campaign in Cyrodil. Just release a statement saying "Our view is that CP makes PvP unbalanced. We're trying no CP in all campaign. Feedback pls thx."

Draekony

To promote non CP when you have people who probably only pvp and grinded CP for pvp, but didnt want to be stuck in the 30 day campaign is a slap in the face to those. Bring a shorter campaign with CP.

Are you going to have NON cp trials as well? It's just not fair to the new players that they have to compete against people with CP in trials! :eyeroll:

I think its the same with my pvp guild, most dont want non CP but most dont want 30 day campaign either. People want to be able to get emperor without waiting 30 days, 7 days was nice, maybe compromise and go 14 days.

Solariken

Sounds fine to me. I hope this at least means that everyone will use Vivec for Imperial City. With only one CP campaign it should be where people will go for boss TV farming. Bosses are super one-shotty in no-CP.

Or better yet @ZOS_BrianWheeler you could finally just merge IC into one server with its own queue...

Durham

apostate9 wrote: »

Durham wrote: »

Minno wrote: »

Durham wrote: »

I have several in my guild that will not go to no CP.. We have gamed together for 15 years ... I'm not sure what we will do... but 50+ Qs are unacceptable

Have they given it a months time? Even for a week nCP is a flavor that's tough to get used to.

Some have but they do not like it as a point ... They believe that CP was earned and a form of progression...

It was earned. There's no question. They earned it. But exercising it in PVP is breaking the game. I thought the goal was to tame it so that it wouldn't, but it seems ZOS still isn't sure PvP wouldn't be better off without it. So...maybe ask your comrades to give it a try?

Breaking the game is your opinion and your free to have it... why force your opinion on the CP servers... you have a non CP server....

My beef is the Q times that will exist on the only CP server... it's already the most populated why take away the other CP campaign that was like a overflow campaign...

Durham

Sallington wrote: »

If ZOS left CPs out of Battleground, then they obviously view the CP systems as something that makes PvP unbalanced.

Why would they choose to then leave it a campaign in Cyrodil. Just release a statement saying "Our view is that CP makes PvP unbalanced. We're trying no CP in all campaign. Feedback pls thx."

You think CP is balanced in PVE? Do you think classes are balanced? Right now people have played 3 years taking away CP is like taking away levels they earned its not a good idea...

I have been with this game since beta ... I have never seem so many people frustrated with this game.... People are extreamily unhappy with the upcomming patch...People will not be happy with the PVP changes....

Sallington

Durham wrote: »

Sallington wrote: »

If ZOS left CPs out of Battleground, then they obviously view the CP systems as something that makes PvP unbalanced.

Why would they choose to then leave it a campaign in Cyrodil. Just release a statement saying "Our view is that CP makes PvP unbalanced. We're trying no CP in all campaign. Feedback pls thx."

You think CP is balanced in PVE? Do you think classes are balanced? Right now people have played 3 years taking away CP is like taking away levels they earned its not a good idea...

I have been with this game since beta ... I have never seem so many people frustrated with this game.... People are extreamily unhappy with the upcomming patch...People will not be happy with the PVP changes....

I've been playing since beta too, and I'd be 110% happy if they removed the entire CP system, said "That was our bad. Horrible idea with horrible implementation.", and we all just moved on from there.

RinaldoGandolphi

I was a big advocate of No-CP PVP early on, but once you peel off the layers it is NOT the way to go forward...not without Major Adjustments.

No-CP PVP currently is terrible. I'll flatout say it, and this is why:

1. Resource poisons are just straight up broken! On the PTS they reduced this to 30% BUT they increased skill costs across the board, reduced the regen and cost reductions from armor, and the resource returns on heavy...the 60% poisons on live = the 30% on the PTS they just moved the cost penalty around...those PTS poisons are every bit as broken as the ones on live, and those poison on No-CP make it unplayable for anyone not part of a 4 man or larger group.

2. Proc sets are just flatout broken on no-cp pvp...they hit harder then most player skills and are free. Proc sets are bad enough to deal with when you have CP damage reductions, good luck without them....Viper can hit as hard on non- CP as it used to hit on CP when it could crit....just imagine Tremorscale, and the other such sets.....

Proc sets and poisons rule No-CP pvp. I am not interested in that at all.

I'd love No-CP pvp to be the way forward, but without MAJOR changes(They don't seem to be willing to make), no way...in its current form I have no interest fighting in a system where 95% of my opponents will be using broken OP resource draining poisons, and proc sets dishing out free damage that higher then most of the resource cost skills...I don't call that competitive PVP, I call it a steaming pile of crap.

I do apologize, but i'll call a Spade a Spade...and right now..No-CP PVP is terrible for those reasons.....they need to make serious itemization adjustments to make No-CP even remotely fun. For me anyways.

I'll be staying on the CP campaign for this reason

Minno

Durham wrote: »

Minno wrote: »

Durham wrote: »

Sallington wrote: »

Crispen_Longbow wrote: »

I personally think its a great time for the major guilds to move over to the NO CP as that is the direction ZOS wants to head.

It would be great if all the competitive guilds moved to no-CP at the start of Morrowind.

It will not happen most will sit through huge Qs... and most will leave PVP... Most players do not like the idea of losing CP... but most people do not like the upcoming patch so it fits into the new ZOS customer relations meta... let's give the minority of players what they want while the majority can just deal with it....

No company can survive this mentality in the end...

Unless of course they are following the majority, of casual newer players that will not be grinding CP for weeks or listened to the feedback of pve casual guilds that said "PvP is fun again!" During the nCP week. I distinctly remember zone chat being incredibly positive that week.

Though it doesn't matter. It's just a game, and while I can't force zos to make you play nCP, you can't force me to play CP. Unless of course the maker of the game feels the changes will give the game more life .

I remember no CP week also and it was incredibly negative because of lag on had.... although it was because it was locked....

It doesn't matter in the end like you said... I do believe they are trying to make it easier for new players... However most of my guild does not like noCP so im in a rock and a hard place...

Yea I do sympathize with players in your position. The game should be played with friends.

Only thing though, is the resources along with nCP are too much. If the intent was removing CP, then they should have done that first before drastically changing resource gains.

KingJ

RinaldoGandolphi wrote: »

I was a big advocate of No-CP PVP early on, but once you peel off the layers it is NOT the way to go forward...not without Major Adjustments.

No-CP PVP currently is terrible. I'll flatout say it, and this is why:

1. Resource poisons are just straight up broken! On the PTS they reduced this to 30% BUT they increased skill costs across the board, reduced the regen and cost reductions from armor, and the resource returns on heavy...the 60% poisons on live = the 30% on the PTS they just moved the cost penalty around...those PTS poisons are every bit as broken as the ones on live, and those poison on No-CP make it unplayable for anyone not part of a 4 man or larger group.

2. Proc sets are just flatout broken on no-cp pvp...they hit harder then most player skills and are free. Proc sets are bad enough to deal with when you have CP damage reductions, good luck without them....Viper can hit as hard on non- CP as it used to hit on CP when it could crit....just imagine Tremorscale, and the other such sets.....

Proc sets and poisons rule No-CP pvp. I am not interested in that at all.

I'd love No-CP pvp to be the way forward, but without MAJOR changes(They don't seem to be willing to make), no way...in its current form I have no interest fighting in a system where 95% of my opponents will be using broken OP resource draining poisons, and proc sets dishing out free damage that higher then most of the resource cost skills...I don't call that competitive PVP, I call it a steaming pile of crap.

I do apologize, but i'll call a Spade a Spade...and right now..No-CP PVP is terrible for those reasons.....they need to make serious itemization adjustments to make No-CP even remotely fun. For me anyways.

I'll be staying on the CP campaign for this reason

I have talked to more than a few players on Xbox and in general this was their issue with no Cp. Everything we hate about the game is worst in No CP. So they don't want to play it.

Valencer

It's not just proc sets. All the stupid gear they added with recent updates is just way too strong when you take CP out of the equation.

No-CP PvP used to be amazing pre-DB update but that's long gone. Is the overpowered gear in this game a huge problem now? Yes. Will ZOS do something about it? No, theyll just shove no-CP PvP down our throats because they have no idea what really makes PvP an unfun experience nowadays and just see clueless people crying about CP powercreep everywhere.

Proc sets are a good example. Yes, there's no CP to buff them by 25% in no-CP PvP, but people dont get the damage reduction from CP either, they have less max health and normal abilities don't hit nearly as hard because people have to spec more for sustain.

Let's just blame it all on the 99 extra CP (33 per category) we've gotten since the CP cap was introduced and keep on letting people's gear play the game for them.

Rickter

@RinaldoGandolphi

Ive been gaming on Azura's Star for several months now and however i do encounter the occasional poison user and an abundant amount of selene's proc sets - it has not ruined any pvp experience thus far.

After you get used to it you dont notice a difference between CP and noCP campaigns.

PvP occurs just as it has on a CP enabled campaign. I agree with your points in that poisons and proc sets impact PvP negatively however, i feel like you are exaggerating that impact by quite a bit. And trust me, I could rant for a very long time on how cheesy proc sets are. in fact i started a thread swearing it would ruin BGs (and it has but no one wants to admit it because youre delusional)

Regardless, I think noCP probably brings more benefit to PvP than negative aspects but I am not by any means ignoring those negative aspects

Minno

RinaldoGandolphi wrote: »

I was a big advocate of No-CP PVP early on, but once you peel off the layers it is NOT the way to go forward...not without Major Adjustments.

No-CP PVP currently is terrible. I'll flatout say it, and this is why:

1. Resource poisons are just straight up broken! On the PTS they reduced this to 30% BUT they increased skill costs across the board, reduced the regen and cost reductions from armor, and the resource returns on heavy...the 60% poisons on live = the 30% on the PTS they just moved the cost penalty around...those PTS poisons are every bit as broken as the ones on live, and those poison on No-CP make it unplayable for anyone not part of a 4 man or larger group.

2. Proc sets are just flatout broken on no-cp pvp...they hit harder then most player skills and are free. Proc sets are bad enough to deal with when you have CP damage reductions, good luck without them....Viper can hit as hard on non- CP as it used to hit on CP when it could crit....just imagine Tremorscale, and the other such sets.....

Proc sets and poisons rule No-CP pvp. I am not interested in that at all.

I'd love No-CP pvp to be the way forward, but without MAJOR changes(They don't seem to be willing to make), no way...in its current form I have no interest fighting in a system where 95% of my opponents will be using broken OP resource draining poisons, and proc sets dishing out free damage that higher then most of the resource cost skills...I don't call that competitive PVP, I call it a steaming pile of crap.

I do apologize, but i'll call a Spade a Spade...and right now..No-CP PVP is terrible for those reasons.....they need to make serious itemization adjustments to make No-CP even remotely fun. For me anyways.

I'll be staying on the CP campaign for this reason

I do remember us saying "nCP is the right move BUT you need to scale poisons/proc sets".

At any point no one said "hey btw let's nerf LA/MA, gut all resource passives/skills and throw players in nCP".

It's a different ball game. At least in Morrowind CP they made the changes we are looking for in balanced PvP. That is why me opinion shifted to say CP is the right way moving forward now.

Dreyloch

So I'm coming across this topic a little late I guess? Hadn't seen or heard about Campaign changes. Am I to understand that PC NA TF will be the same with champ points? But be renamed Vivec? Can't read everything right now being at work =/

But my statement still stands @Rickter. Why even have CP's if someone like myself pretty much only PvP's? I can do no CP. I just don't like it. It restricts many interesting builds with all these armor choices we have. It's also very truly NOT like 1.6 or before. There are many other factors that just aren't the same from that era. If Azuzra's was really like 1.6 and before? I'd have np being there. As it stands, there are a ton of little mechanics and such that are gone, changed or work totally different now. I.E. blocking, roll dodge and sprint costs, hell, any skill costs lol.

Durham

Had PC is a low pop server .. on the weekends things pick up... during the week you can find action generally with smaller setups.... It has an issue with emp farming this could be solved easily with a rule change .... Had as it stands now is a spill over from TrueFlame. When the Q' s get really large on TF people will begin to log in on Had... Most nights Had will achieve 2 bars and sometimes 3 on at least 1 faction....

So with the current changes we will be forced into a much larger Q? This is not how I want to play a game...

In my opinion I believe more people that are non CP will play in the battle grounds this will leave the non CP campaigns even less populated compared to the CP campaigns...why force the CP people into huge Qs...

Do you think the BG's will lead to more people going to the no CP route? What is the thinking here... from a math perspective it makes little sense...

DoccEff

Not sure where some people here get their numbers, but on PC EU both TF and AS are usually poplocked during primetime, while Haderus is just being used for emp-trading during the week.
Also I have no idea why some people here claim that no one likes noCP when that's clearly not the case. Just because you don't like it doesn't mean no one likes it, and vice versa.
Like I stated before, I would like to see a weekly noCP-campaign ADDED and not another one being changed.

Crispen_Longbow

I would like to see the CP system to move in the direction of removing the things in the game that are annoying and not invest in making you stronger than another player.

Examples...

PVP CP.

1. Siege
   
   • Autofire Siege:
     When you setup siege it automatically fires at a “Wall” until the wall is down. Without you manning it. The more points you spend the more you can place at once. Can’t be used at players only walls and doors.
     
   • Faster siege firing:
     Speed up reload time of siege
     
   • Siege Duration:
     Last Longer and can take more incoming damage.
     
   • Siege Damage:
     Increase the damage of your individual siege against walls and doors.
2. Spawning
   • Keep Porting:
     With CPs into this allows you to port into a keep that has been burst/flagged/tagged etc. More points the longer you are able to port into it.
   • Death Sickness
     Add a penalty for dying. With this CP reduce the cost of that penalty.
   • Camp Radius
     Increase the camp radius for you.
   • Load Screens
     The more CPs you have pumped into this the lower the time you have to wait in a dam loading screening. Can I please put all 800 of my CP points into this.

Minno

Crispen_Longbow wrote: »

I would like to see the CP system to move in the direction of removing the things in the game that are annoying and not invest in making you stronger than another player.

Examples...

PVP CP.

1. Siege
   
   • Autofire Siege:
     When you setup siege it automatically fires at a “Wall” until the wall is down. Without you manning it. The more points you spend the more you can place at once. Can’t be used at players only walls and doors.
     
   • Faster siege firing:
     Speed up reload time of siege
     
   • Siege Duration:
     Last Longer and can take more incoming damage.
     
   • Siege Damage:
     Increase the damage of your individual siege against walls and doors.
2. Spawning
   • Keep Porting:
     With CPs into this allows you to port into a keep that has been burst/flagged/tagged etc. More points the longer you are able to port into it.
   • Death Sickness
     Add a penalty for dying. With this CP reduce the cost of that penalty.
   • Camp Radius
     Increase the camp radius for you.
   • Load Screens
     The more CPs you have pumped into this the lower the time you have to wait in a dam loading screening. Can I please put all 800 of my CP points into this.

10000 crowns per CP invested!

Sallington

Crispen_Longbow wrote: »

I would like to see the CP system to move in the direction of removing the things in the game that are annoying and not invest in making you stronger than another player.

Examples...

PVP CP.

1. Siege
   
   • Autofire Siege:
     When you setup siege it automatically fires at a “Wall” until the wall is down. Without you manning it. The more points you spend the more you can place at once. Can’t be used at players only walls and doors.
     
   • Faster siege firing:
     Speed up reload time of siege
     
   • Siege Duration:
     Last Longer and can take more incoming damage.
     
   • Siege Damage:
     Increase the damage of your individual siege against walls and doors.
2. Spawning
   • Keep Porting:
     With CPs into this allows you to port into a keep that has been burst/flagged/tagged etc. More points the longer you are able to port into it.
   • Death Sickness
     Add a penalty for dying. With this CP reduce the cost of that penalty.
   • Camp Radius
     Increase the camp radius for you.
   • Load Screens
     The more CPs you have pumped into this the lower the time you have to wait in a dam loading screening. Can I please put all 800 of my CP points into this.

For the love of god, yes. The CP system should have NEVER been about increasing any combat stats. IT should have all been quality of life improvements, crafting buffs, mount buffs, etc. Plenty of incentive to get XP, but not just to keep increasing player strength (requiring nerf after nerf to keep it form getting out of control).

Satiar

The only things keeping us from taking the guild to NoCP are siege and poisons. Rebalance these for noCP campaigns and you're golden.