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noCP The Definitive PvP Experience per ZOS?

  • Dreyloch
    Dreyloch
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    Satiar wrote: »
    The only things keeping us from taking the guild to NoCP are siege and poisons. Rebalance these for noCP campaigns and you're golden.

    Well that, and the lack of competitive guilds large enough to sustain our blood thirst? =P
    "The fear of Death, is often worse than death itself"
  • Kerioko
    Kerioko
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    I find it funny that ZOS replaced the sustain CP with 2 PVP focused passives and now they are heading toward pushing non-CP PVP.
    Dinosaur Chicken Nuggets - Argonian mNB Tank/Heals (PVP)
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  • Adernath
    Adernath
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    Qbiken wrote: »
    Adernath wrote: »
    The closer the gap between PvP newcomers and veterans is, the better.

    A change like this makes the gap even bigger. Unless you know what you´re doing nonCP Campaign in Morrowind will be really difficult to sustain/play in.

    No, more CP requires you to play the game longer and gain rather significant advantages by doing that, ergo the gap is larger with CP in place.
    Edited by Adernath on May 18, 2017 8:11AM
  • Rickter
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    Satiar wrote: »
    The only things keeping us from taking the guild to NoCP are siege and poisons. Rebalance these for noCP campaigns and you're golden.

    I dont feel like either one of these are that significant to deter groups from noCP. Yes the siege hits hard but its avoidable mostly and you can use that same advantage against your opponents. Siege SHOULD hit hard - its siege.

    Poisons are not wide spread. Yes they are used and yes they are abused but I pvp 4-5 nights a week and maybe 10% of the fights im in i am affected by poisons.

    I think you should give it a chance - maybe around prime time on a friday or sat
    RickterESO
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  • NACtron
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    I personally think its a great time for the major guilds to move over to the NO CP as that is the direction ZOS wants to head.

    That's an interesting proposal Crispen, for EP guilds DR would be down for that. don't know if the other TF ep guilds are down though.

    ZOS will need to drag us over kicking and screaming. (Which seems to be their intent) Instead of truly fixing the CP system and balancing it, they are electing to go the easier route and removing it from PvP all together.

    The problem for alot of the players in my guild is that a lot of us have invested a good deal of time into the CP system. Both in getting CP and balancing and desinging builds with CP in mind.

    I get where ZOS is coming from. No CP I'm sure is easier to balance and may increase performance but it seems like the easy solution for ZOS. The hard solution for the players.
    Edited by NACtron on May 18, 2017 4:05PM
    Pact Militia GM
    Nikolai the Nord - Stamplar

  • Sallington
    Sallington
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    NACtron wrote: »
    I personally think its a great time for the major guilds to move over to the NO CP as that is the direction ZOS wants to head.

    That's an interesting proposal Crispen, for EP guilds DR would be down for that. don't know if the other TF ep guilds are down though.

    ZOS will need to drag us over kicking and screaming. (Which seems to be their intent) Instead of truly fixing the CP system and balancing it, they are electing to go the easier route and removing it from PvP all together.

    The problem for alot of the players in my guild is that a lot of us have invested a good deal of time into the CP system. Both in getting CP and balancing and desinging builds with CP in mind.

    I get where ZOS is coming from. No CP I'm sure is easier to balance and may increase performance but it seems like the easy solution for ZOS. The hard solution for the players.

    In a perfect world, ZOS would rework the CP system to not include any combat benefits anyway, so we'd all be at the same place as a noCP campaign anyway.

    All this discussion and outrage now is just fallout from a poorly thought out CP system that they went live with a year ago.
    Edited by Sallington on May 18, 2017 4:20PM
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  • Durham
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    Satiar wrote: »
    The only things keeping us from taking the guild to NoCP are siege and poisons. Rebalance these for noCP campaigns and you're golden.

    The only thing keeping my guild from going is the players
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  • Rickter
    Rickter
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    I dont really have a problem with CP now that they balanced it. i mean, there are some serious checks and balances now with cp

    why did they go through all that trouble to balance cp, then push the noCP focus?
    RickterESO
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  • Minno
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    Rickter wrote: »
    I dont really have a problem with CP now that they balanced it. i mean, there are some serious checks and balances now with cp

    why did they go through all that trouble to balance cp, then push the noCP focus?

    Agreed. At the very least, they need to review the number of servers after we have a month of PvP to properly compare the new CP changes.
    Minno - DC - Forum-plar Extraordinaire
    - Guild-lead for MV
    - Filthy Casual
  • THEDKEXPERIENCE
    THEDKEXPERIENCE
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    On one hand I'm happy to see the XBox master race of PVPers get our just due. I'll safely assume I'm now one of the handful of best players in the universe and ignore any evidence to the contrary! ;)

    In all seriousness though ... I'm not thrilled with the change because I love my 50k magic Templar set up, but I'll figure it out. If nothing else at least I'll finally be able to enter the final stages of my lifelong mission to prove that crit resistance is overrated.

    0 crit resist build ACTIVATE!
  • Satiar
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    Rickter wrote: »
    Satiar wrote: »
    The only things keeping us from taking the guild to NoCP are siege and poisons. Rebalance these for noCP campaigns and you're golden.

    I dont feel like either one of these are that significant to deter groups from noCP. Yes the siege hits hard but its avoidable mostly and you can use that same advantage against your opponents. Siege SHOULD hit hard - its siege.

    Poisons are not wide spread. Yes they are used and yes they are abused but I pvp 4-5 nights a week and maybe 10% of the fights im in i am affected by poisons.

    I think you should give it a chance - maybe around prime time on a friday or sat

    We've tried it. Enjoyed it a lot, actually. The trouble is that siege is just overtuned and dumb. It commits the great sin: it's not fun.

    We wanted fights. What we got was 60+ people sitting in a keep with 20 siege pointed at us. Quickly got old.

    That, and it is obviously overtuned. Cold fire is wayyyyyyyyy OP. You can say "dodge the circles" and I'll reply that I'd rather play on a server that doesn't reward Left Click Heroes.

    The fights are better, but our impression is people would rather siege than fight. And I don't blame them, ZoS has made it rewarding in comparison to actually making a build and using it.
    Edited by Satiar on May 18, 2017 8:29PM
    Vehemence -- Commander and Raid Lead -- Tri-faction PvP
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  • DeHei
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    I hate, that ZOS want to make the decision for me!!!

    I want to choose between CP and non-CP, I want choose between a 7 days or 30 days campain and i want to choose between BGs with and without CP too. I have my own opinion what i like and *** i wanna play like i want!
    No directory from ZOS will change my opinion what i like or not!

    We say them, what we want to have and they should give us nothing else. Honor your player and we will give it back. Maybe we talk our friends how good the game works and how much ZOS doing for us.. Maybe you can get much more player, BUT not in that way you go atm!
    Edited by DeHei on May 18, 2017 9:09PM
    DeHei - EP Magicka Templar Allrounder
    De Hei(Youtube)
  • Minno
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    Satiar wrote: »
    Rickter wrote: »
    Satiar wrote: »
    The only things keeping us from taking the guild to NoCP are siege and poisons. Rebalance these for noCP campaigns and you're golden.

    I dont feel like either one of these are that significant to deter groups from noCP. Yes the siege hits hard but its avoidable mostly and you can use that same advantage against your opponents. Siege SHOULD hit hard - its siege.

    Poisons are not wide spread. Yes they are used and yes they are abused but I pvp 4-5 nights a week and maybe 10% of the fights im in i am affected by poisons.

    I think you should give it a chance - maybe around prime time on a friday or sat

    We've tried it. Enjoyed it a lot, actually. The trouble is that siege is just overtuned and dumb. It commits the great sin: it's not fun.

    We wanted fights. What we got was 60+ people sitting in a keep with 20 siege pointed at us. Quickly got old.

    That, and it is obviously overtuned. Cold fire is wayyyyyyyyy OP. You can say "dodge the circles" and I'll reply that I'd rather play on a server that doesn't reward Left Click Heroes.

    The fights are better, but our impression is people would rather siege than fight. And I don't blame them, ZoS has made it rewarding in comparison to actually making a build and using it.

    Well granted, a new player that comes across a guild group, unless they have an equal sized team is going to have a terrible time. It's why zerging had been numerous on TF; the seige doesn't work so the only thing that will is to group up to take advantage of AOE caps.

    The perspective from the solo player just looking to join a few fights paints a different picture than the one you give. And it's not that they are left click heros, it's that seige is effective enough to give them the ability to hit your team without needing 24 other players stacked with heals.

    Both aren't wrong perspectives since I can see how purging seige dots would get old fast. But I can also see not being able to do anything effective to a guild group on the current CP system, even after having 20 random pugs helping out.

    Minno - DC - Forum-plar Extraordinaire
    - Guild-lead for MV
    - Filthy Casual
  • Rickter
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    Maybe this is there way of also addressing the emp flipping?

    And a lot of people are complaining about the queue times for 30 day Champ - but there is no correlation. TF has always had bad queue times and multiple discussions have occured in which moving OFF of TF would alleviate the problem - but guilds do not and had not when Haderus was an option.

    So they are taking away an option you never used (most of you) - cannot complain about queue times because MOST TF players refused to do their due diligence to resolve the issue.

    If more of you had moved off of TF to Haderus sooner, then Haderus wouldnt be getting converted because ZOS would have seen two active CP enabled campaigns.

    You made your bed, time to get cozy.
    Edited by Rickter on May 19, 2017 2:56PM
    RickterESO
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  • Durham
    Durham
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    Rickter wrote: »
    Maybe this is there way of also addressing the emp flipping?

    And a lot of people are complaining about the queue times for 30 day Champ - but there is no correlation. TF has always had bad queue times and multiple discussions have occured in which moving OFF of TF would alleviate the problem - but guilds do not and had not when Haderus was an option.

    So they are taking away an option you never used (most of you) - cannot complain about queue times because MOST TF players refused to do their due diligence to resolve the issue.

    If more of you had moved off of TF to Haderus sooner, then Haderus wouldnt be getting converted because ZOS would have seen two active CP enabled campaigns.

    You made your bed, time to get cozy.

    I can complain ....I play on Had everynight... I get plenty of action... there are no zergs... no lag... good action in IC..

    Most run groups of 6-12 .... very fun stuff actually..

    I play prime time we were 2bars last night ... on the weekends we hit 3 bars every weekend...
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  • Rickter
    Rickter
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    Durham wrote: »
    I can complain ....I play on Had everynight... I get plenty of action... there are no zergs... no lag... good action in IC..

    Most run groups of 6-12 .... very fun stuff actually..

    I play prime time we were 2bars last night ... on the weekends we hit 3 bars every weekend...

    Well yeah for those that homed on Haderus, this forces you to pigeon hole onto an already crammed server. you have my condolences.

    RickterESO
    PC | NA | DC
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  • NBrookus
    NBrookus
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    Rickter wrote: »
    Maybe this is there way of also addressing the emp flipping?

    I don't think it will. Most of the emp flippers are not skilled players, they just rely on raw numbers on an empty campaign. That won't matter if CP is enabled or not.

    If anything, ZOS just made it easier to farm emp achieves. I suspect Amelexia will be the pvdoor emp and skyshard campaign more than Haddy ever was.
  • Dreyloch
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    Rickter wrote: »
    Satiar wrote: »
    The only things keeping us from taking the guild to NoCP are siege and poisons. Rebalance these for noCP campaigns and you're golden.

    I dont feel like either one of these are that significant to deter groups from noCP. Yes the siege hits hard but its avoidable mostly and you can use that same advantage against your opponents. Siege SHOULD hit hard - its siege.

    Poisons are not wide spread. Yes they are used and yes they are abused but I pvp 4-5 nights a week and maybe 10% of the fights im in i am affected by poisons.

    I think you should give it a chance - maybe around prime time on a friday or sat

    Have to agree with Satiar on this one. It wasn't as bad when they had the one week noCP thing for TF, but we tried going to AZ before that and get acclimated. I had to purge poisons almost non-stop off myself. While it might be a little more realistic with the siege, it was proving to be much less fun than group V. group in an open field...or on a resource. Of course, anytime they saw us coming, siege went down in the field like second nature. No on seems to want to mix it up hand to hand. (ok, some ranged too lol)

    I dunno if they were bad, newbs, afraid, or it just depends on what guild your fighting? But the siege going down at fist sight of another group is worrying =/
    Edited by Dreyloch on May 19, 2017 4:44PM
    "The fear of Death, is often worse than death itself"
  • Durham
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    Rickter wrote: »
    Durham wrote: »
    I can complain ....I play on Had everynight... I get plenty of action... there are no zergs... no lag... good action in IC..

    Most run groups of 6-12 .... very fun stuff actually..

    I play prime time we were 2bars last night ... on the weekends we hit 3 bars every weekend...

    Well yeah for those that homed on Haderus, this forces you to pigeon hole onto an already crammed server. you have my condolences.

    We tried true flame wed.... there was 10 Q..... We got in 4 of us... 15 minutes later I crashed then I'm in a 23 Q, I was leading so we were all frustrated we came back to Had 30 minutes later after I waited 15 minutes to get back in lol ....

    I'm am not sure what will happen honestly ...1 guy that I have gamed with for 15 years is determined not to give non-cp a chance to him it's the point of the matter... 2 others I know will hate the Q's... A few of us will do the BG but have to becareful not to alienate out other 4 members that will not do BG... I hope this patch is not the end of my small guild....

    I like PVP now ... I enjoy playing with friends so this patch I'm very nervous about.....
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  • Potenza
    Potenza
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    This makes me really angry. I've spent hundreds of hours grinding CP to make my characters more powerful, and now ZOS is going to take that away? The devs need to state their intentions regarding the Champion System!

    The same complaint people made when they replaced the VET system with the CP system.

    Hard to believe that anyone remembers the VET system even?
  • Durham
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    Yes but vet players got compensation through champ points
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  • Kay1
    Kay1
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    The thing is that nobody cares about Zos intention to make PvP no cp, the numbers are what matters and while CP campaign sit at full no cp don't even have 1 bar.

    They are just killing PvP for people who don't have a good connection and now PvP will be as zergy as ever, everyone will play in the same campaign because the 5 rats in this forum spamming the forums claiming that we all want no cp in PvP is not even the 0.0001% of the PvP community.
    K1 The Big Monkey
  • Durham
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    No CP people think balance will be adjusted around no CP after CP is gone .. honestly I can't believe they think that ... if they had the will to balance pvp they would have already .. for example poisons in no cp they could easily be toned down just for that campaign have they? Nope

    The vast majority of this game PVE not PVP CP is staying for most people ....
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  • Derra
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    Durham wrote: »
    No CP people think balance will be adjusted around no CP after CP is gone .. honestly I can't believe they think that ... if they had the will to balance pvp they would have already .. for example poisons in no cp they could easily be toned down just for that campaign have they? Nope

    The vast majority of this game PVE not PVP CP is staying for most people ....

    Even if CPvp does not stay - the imbalances will. Just different ones.
    <Noricum>
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    Derra - DC - Sorc - AvA 50
    Derrah - EP - Sorc - AvA 50

  • Joy_Division
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    Rickter wrote: »
    Maybe this is there way of also addressing the emp flipping?

    And a lot of people are complaining about the queue times for 30 day Champ - but there is no correlation. TF has always had bad queue times and multiple discussions have occured in which moving OFF of TF would alleviate the problem - but guilds do not and had not when Haderus was an option.

    So they are taking away an option you never used (most of you) - cannot complain about queue times because MOST TF players refused to do their due diligence to resolve the issue.

    If more of you had moved off of TF to Haderus sooner, then Haderus wouldnt be getting converted because ZOS would have seen two active CP enabled campaigns.

    You made your bed, time to get cozy.

    This is nothing but conjecture that has zero base to it.

    You are speaking as if you had insight as to why ZoS made this decision. You don't. It is 100% speculation. All ZoS said was "Also note that Campaigns are being shifted to be mostly Non-Champion to go along with Battlegrounds being non-Champion based." That has nothing to do with emp trading, population balance, CP (non)popularity. Nothing.

    And what makes you think a no CP Haderus will be any different than a CP Haderus? Is it because no CP players are just morally superior and exhibit better sportsmanship that their lower player pool will somehow fill both of these campaigns such that Haderus doesn't become an emp trading campaign?

    And I will complain about ZoS's lack of communication, the unilateral manner in which it made this decision, and the utterly contradictory messages it continues to put out to this day. They say CP is an integral part of end-game character development. They say they are committed to having a unified PvE and PvP. The no CP exclusive BGs and the removal of the more popular CP campaign fly in the face of that.


    Edited by Joy_Division on May 21, 2017 3:34PM
  • Derra
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    Rickter wrote: »
    Maybe this is there way of also addressing the emp flipping?

    And a lot of people are complaining about the queue times for 30 day Champ - but there is no correlation. TF has always had bad queue times and multiple discussions have occured in which moving OFF of TF would alleviate the problem - but guilds do not and had not when Haderus was an option.

    So they are taking away an option you never used (most of you) - cannot complain about queue times because MOST TF players refused to do their due diligence to resolve the issue.

    If more of you had moved off of TF to Haderus sooner, then Haderus wouldnt be getting converted because ZOS would have seen two active CP enabled campaigns.

    You made your bed, time to get cozy.

    This is nothing but conjecture that has zero base to it.

    You are speaking as if you had insight as to why ZoS made this decision. You don't. It is 100% speculation. All ZoS said was "Also note that Campaigns are being shifted to be mostly Non-Champion to go along with Battlegrounds being non-Champion based." That has nothing to do with emp trading, population balance, CP (non)popularity. Nothing.

    And what makes you think a no CP Haderus will be any different than a CP Haderus? Is it because no CP players are just morally superior and exhibit better sportsmanship that their lower player pool will somehow fill both of these campaigns such that Haderus doesn't become an emp trading campaign?

    And I will complain about ZoS's lack of communication, the unilateral manner in which it made this decision, and the utterly contradictory messages it continues to put out to this day. They say CP is an integral part of end-game character development. They say they are committed to having a unified PvE and PvP. The no CP exclusive BGs and the removal of the more popular CP campaign fly in the face of that.


    What scares me the most is: Balance changes to abilities in regards to pvp will now most likely be done on nonCP data and performance.
    That means the backlash to CP enabled pve will be much stronger and eventually the vocal "pvp ruins our pveskills" crowd will be right in that claim.
    <Noricum>
    I live. I die. I live again.

    Derra - DC - Sorc - AvA 50
    Derrah - EP - Sorc - AvA 50

  • FearlessOne_2014
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    See yall all in the queue. Hopefully we don't crash. :lol:
  • Durham
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    Derra wrote: »
    Rickter wrote: »
    Maybe this is there way of also addressing the emp flipping?

    And a lot of people are complaining about the queue times for 30 day Champ - but there is no correlation. TF has always had bad queue times and multiple discussions have occured in which moving OFF of TF would alleviate the problem - but guilds do not and had not when Haderus was an option.

    So they are taking away an option you never used (most of you) - cannot complain about queue times because MOST TF players refused to do their due diligence to resolve the issue.

    If more of you had moved off of TF to Haderus sooner, then Haderus wouldnt be getting converted because ZOS would have seen two active CP enabled campaigns.

    You made your bed, time to get cozy.

    This is nothing but conjecture that has zero base to it.

    You are speaking as if you had insight as to why ZoS made this decision. You don't. It is 100% speculation. All ZoS said was "Also note that Campaigns are being shifted to be mostly Non-Champion to go along with Battlegrounds being non-Champion based." That has nothing to do with emp trading, population balance, CP (non)popularity. Nothing.

    And what makes you think a no CP Haderus will be any different than a CP Haderus? Is it because no CP players are just morally superior and exhibit better sportsmanship that their lower player pool will somehow fill both of these campaigns such that Haderus doesn't become an emp trading campaign?

    And I will complain about ZoS's lack of communication, the unilateral manner in which it made this decision, and the utterly contradictory messages it continues to put out to this day. They say CP is an integral part of end-game character development. They say they are committed to having a unified PvE and PvP. The no CP exclusive BGs and the removal of the more popular CP campaign fly in the face of that.


    What scares me the most is: Balance changes to abilities in regards to pvp will now most likely be done on nonCP data and performance.
    That means the backlash to CP enabled pve will be much stronger and eventually the vocal "pvp ruins our pveskills" crowd will be right in that claim.

    Nah they will not balance around non CP this is a none CPer pipe dream.. and the reason they are so vocal.
    PVP DEADWAIT
    PVP The Unguildables
  • Rohamad_Ali
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    I was a big advocate of No-CP PVP early on, but once you peel off the layers it is NOT the way to go forward...not without Major Adjustments.

    No-CP PVP currently is terrible. I'll flatout say it, and this is why:

    1. Resource poisons are just straight up broken! On the PTS they reduced this to 30% BUT they increased skill costs across the board, reduced the regen and cost reductions from armor, and the resource returns on heavy...the 60% poisons on live = the 30% on the PTS they just moved the cost penalty around...those PTS poisons are every bit as broken as the ones on live, and those poison on No-CP make it unplayable for anyone not part of a 4 man or larger group.

    2. Proc sets are just flatout broken on no-cp pvp...they hit harder then most player skills and are free. Proc sets are bad enough to deal with when you have CP damage reductions, good luck without them....Viper can hit as hard on non- CP as it used to hit on CP when it could crit....just imagine Tremorscale, and the other such sets.....

    Proc sets and poisons rule No-CP pvp. I am not interested in that at all.

    I'd love No-CP pvp to be the way forward, but without MAJOR changes(They don't seem to be willing to make), no way...in its current form I have no interest fighting in a system where 95% of my opponents will be using broken OP resource draining poisons, and proc sets dishing out free damage that higher then most of the resource cost skills...I don't call that competitive PVP, I call it a steaming pile of crap.

    I do apologize, but i'll call a Spade a Spade...and right now..No-CP PVP is terrible for those reasons.....they need to make serious itemization adjustments to make No-CP even remotely fun. For me anyways.

    I'll be staying on the CP campaign for this reason

    This is correct . All no CP really does is reveal the other big issues , like gear , poison and siege winning fights over player skill . If they removed all five piece and three piece sets , poison , CP and then reduced siege appropriately , that would give an honest look at class balance and put everyone on a level playing field . I would probably play that for fun sometimes .

    The CP system is adjusted greatly next patch but they still want to abandon it in battlefields . That shows low confidence in their work . This game has always been about gear and progression . They can try to steer the boat away but all that does is frustrating the people that put in the work . On no cp I can just log in and vicious death , Grothdar , EotS entire groups solo . It will still work after the patch , probably even better . That's fun for like 20 minutes and then I would like a challenge again .
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