SORCERER ...PLS!!!

ADarklore

TheHsN wrote: »

Turelus wrote: »

It's not about it being the best DPS, it's about it being so much better it's becoming the only viable option.

If a class can pull 2k DPS more then that's not an issue, player skill will balance that out, however the sorcerer can will potentially 10k more? Whilst also having a shield in excess of 20k and the option to have pets doing damage as well.

Right now it's just doing too much in too many areas, it doesn't need nerfing below all the others, just some of its power knocked down a little to be close to the others.

Can u make vMOL with sorc as TANK...
if u cant make it yes 10k more DPS is nothing...

Or can u heal vMOL with sorcerer if u cant 10K more DPS again it isnt anything...
This game is making mistakes about it...

Tank is tank
healar is healar
DPS is DPS

classes doesnt have their definations very well.. every class can be anything is wrong to my MMo ideas....

And they dont even need to touch SORC they need to tune up others intead op tuned down to sorc

Sorry, but the MMO world doesn't revolve around 'your' ideas... and every class should be able to DPS as the majority of players want to DPS... other roles should be secondary. The concept of MMOs being 'group only' has gone out the window years ago... and in ESO where the majority of the game revolves around SOLO content, every class should have DPS first, other role second.

TheHsN

ADarklore wrote: »

TheHsN wrote: »

Turelus wrote: »

It's not about it being the best DPS, it's about it being so much better it's becoming the only viable option.

If a class can pull 2k DPS more then that's not an issue, player skill will balance that out, however the sorcerer can will potentially 10k more? Whilst also having a shield in excess of 20k and the option to have pets doing damage as well.

Right now it's just doing too much in too many areas, it doesn't need nerfing below all the others, just some of its power knocked down a little to be close to the others.

Can u make vMOL with sorc as TANK...
if u cant make it yes 10k more DPS is nothing...

Or can u heal vMOL with sorcerer if u cant 10K more DPS again it isnt anything...
This game is making mistakes about it...

Tank is tank
healar is healar
DPS is DPS

classes doesnt have their definations very well.. every class can be anything is wrong to my MMo ideas....

And they dont even need to touch SORC they need to tune up others intead op tuned down to sorc

Sorry, but the MMO world doesn't revolve around 'your' ideas... and every class should be able to DPS as the majority of players want to DPS... other roles should be secondary. The concept of MMOs being 'group only' has gone out the window years ago... and in ESO where the majority of the game revolves around SOLO content, every class should have DPS first, other role second.

ok

TheHsN

Edziu wrote: »

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

Geez, I honestly think nobody with experience on all classes will deny a buff to Nightblades. They need it. But asking to nerf all sorcs because one build is op (familiar + prey + necro) is pathetic. Familiar nerf is already anounced (last eso live).

It's just like asking for streak to be nerfed bc the dk chains or nb cloak is broken instead of leaving streak alone and fix the other skills. Funny thing is, this was already demanded.

nb cloak is always broken since they took dot purge from 1 morph.....until cloak had just dont purge...dont mistake with purge to every negative effct...it was only dot purge....until cloak had this dot purgat was fine but since they took this cloak started breaking by many many dots which should be supressed but are not....

1 nerf to cloak....not working properly skill forever

and ask for nerfs still...as a person that u know how it destroys a skill...I play my self Nb as my first in PvP and i Play Sorc in PvE

i want them buff and fix NB very much... But not nerfings SORC not that it will be weak but They are going to destroy something like They did to cloak.... Anyway... nomore argument ....Have a Nice Day

Edziu

TheHsN wrote: »

Edziu wrote: »

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

Geez, I honestly think nobody with experience on all classes will deny a buff to Nightblades. They need it. But asking to nerf all sorcs because one build is op (familiar + prey + necro) is pathetic. Familiar nerf is already anounced (last eso live).

It's just like asking for streak to be nerfed bc the dk chains or nb cloak is broken instead of leaving streak alone and fix the other skills. Funny thing is, this was already demanded.

nb cloak is always broken since they took dot purge from 1 morph.....until cloak had just dont purge...dont mistake with purge to every negative effct...it was only dot purge....until cloak had this dot purgat was fine but since they took this cloak started breaking by many many dots which should be supressed but are not....

1 nerf to cloak....not working properly skill forever

and ask for nerfs still...as a person that u know how it destroys a skill...I play my self Nb as my first in PvP and i Play Sorc in PvE

i want them buff and fix NB very much... But not nerfings SORC not that it will be weak but They are going to destroy something like They did to cloak.... Anyway... nomore argument ....Have a Nice Day

as I wrote before..ZO$ is unable to balance nb...they have no *** idea how this class is working and about sorc nerfs I dont want huge nerf to destroy this class but want some not big nerfs to slighty down sorc to other classes level lik @BohnT wrote also

this class dont need huge nerf ofc but need those slighty nerfs to balance id ZOS cant buff other classes to sorc lvl...

and as I wrote in other nerf/buff theards...you cant balance something with only buffs...need also some nerf but in moderation because if it was no nerfs...only buffs it will be to much power creep but ZO$ dont know how to nerf in moderation if we look on dk, templar and nb now on pts..

Chilly-McFreeze

Edziu wrote: »

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

Geez, I honestly think nobody with experience on all classes will deny a buff to Nightblades. They need it. But asking to nerf all sorcs because one build is op (familiar + prey + necro) is pathetic. Familiar nerf is already anounced (last eso live).

It's just like asking for streak to be nerfed bc the dk chains or nb cloak is broken instead of leaving streak alone and fix the other skills. Funny thing is, this was already demanded.

nb cloak is always broken since they took dot purge from 1 morph.....until cloak had just dont purge...dont mistake with purge to every negative effct...it was only dot purge....until cloak had this dot purgat was fine but since they took this cloak started breaking by many many dots which should be supressed but are not....

1 nerf to cloak....not working properly skill forever

What was ZOS reason for changing this?

Anyway, I believe you get what I'm saying. It's okay to bring the overperforming familiar's pulse back in line. But it would be a shame if every sorc (stam, non pet mag) has to suffer because of that one build. Priority should be to get skills right, e.g. making gap closers and cloak reliable. The other classes will gain nothing (in absolute numbers) if ZOS nerfs sorcs. The only gains would be in comparison. But would that fix the other classes? No, it wouldn't.

BTW I'm not against any changes to sorcs. It just feels like some people will not be happy until sorcs get nuked.

ADarklore wrote: »

TheHsN wrote: »

Turelus wrote: »

It's not about it being the best DPS, it's about it being so much better it's becoming the only viable option.

If a class can pull 2k DPS more then that's not an issue, player skill will balance that out, however the sorcerer can will potentially 10k more? Whilst also having a shield in excess of 20k and the option to have pets doing damage as well.

Right now it's just doing too much in too many areas, it doesn't need nerfing below all the others, just some of its power knocked down a little to be close to the others.

Can u make vMOL with sorc as TANK...
if u cant make it yes 10k more DPS is nothing...

Or can u heal vMOL with sorcerer if u cant 10K more DPS again it isnt anything...
This game is making mistakes about it...

Tank is tank
healar is healar
DPS is DPS

classes doesnt have their definations very well.. every class can be anything is wrong to my MMo ideas....

And they dont even need to touch SORC they need to tune up others intead op tuned down to sorc

Sorry, but the MMO world doesn't revolve around 'your' ideas... and every class should be able to DPS as the majority of players want to DPS... other roles should be secondary. The concept of MMOs being 'group only' has gone out the window years ago... and in ESO where the majority of the game revolves around SOLO content, every class should have DPS first, other role second.

While I agree that his personal opinion isn't the center of the MMO universe, so isn't yours. Guess that is the basic idea of having a discussion forum in the first place. So don't try to shut others up by telling them their opinion doesn't matter.

At least he has a point. If you browse the forum you will see lots of comments like "if I see a LA mag sorc qued as tank, I vote kick 'em right away" or "sigh... mag sorc healers bring nothing to the table. Just a waste of que time.". DK are better at tanking than sorcs. Templars are better at healing than sorcs. I even would say DK is best suited for tanking, templar is best suited for healing. Do you disagree?

EDIT: To make the last paragraph more clear. If you want a healer, your go-to option would be a templar. If you want a great tank, you would be looking for a DK instead of a sorc. Not that these classes can't do any other role. This way. It sounds a bit different in my original wording.

Edziu

@Chilly-McFreeze
yes also this is right about get rid to cloak and other skills without nerfing all sorc because 1 combo..this is also pathetic...they nerf crystal fragment damage..ok...but most of people donthave problemw ith this skill...mostly is problem with just their delayed finisher and curse combo with other skills on pvp and this implosion ofc...nerf to pet was only good way with nerf to sorc and especially sorc dark deal on stam sorc should be nerfed better than now because now its almost no nerf to them...like will be fine if they will lose their magica ater bashed cast and this wont be that big problem in pve then tha on pvp where its to op for now

Chilly-McFreeze

Short question: If you interrupt any cast-time skill (e.g. dark flare), will the resource for that be consumed?

Biro123

Honestly, I think Dark Deal will be fine.

I don't even play my stamsorc anymore - but I do understand the mechanisms and builds for them.

Stamsorc with dark-deal was only strong because of things that returned BOTH stam and mag. Namely Constitution.

People tend to look at dark-deal very one-dimensionally - but if you look at a standard stamsorc setup, you have base stam/mag regen and blackrose. Now lets look at that.

When this build came out, blackrose was returning around 1400 stam AND mag per proc. So every 8 seconds, you got 2800 stam (which helped fuel your stam abilities obviously) - and almost enough mag to fuel a dark-deal - which made up for the rest of the stam you used in that time. This relied to some degree on some cost-reduction. Either from CP's, or Glyphs or both.

Now on pts, we have
1. Lost cost reduction. This means stam will be burned through more quickly - so you need to dark-deal more.
2. A BIG nerf to the stam return of Constitution (and last patch a small blackrose nerf too). Now 5 blackrose on live returns around 700 stam per proc. Over that 8 seconds, you are already 1400 down compared to live.. (So your 'more dark-deals are now even more-more)
3. A BIG nerf to the mag return of constitution (and blackrose as mentioned above). Now it will only fuel a dark-deal after 16 seconds instead of 8 seconds. But remember, due to 1) and 2), a stamsorc will need to do MORE dark-deals, not less.


I mean, this is a huge triple-whammy. So what's a stamsorc to do?
Could invest more in mag recov so you can dark-deal more. But the simple fact that you are having to dark deal so much more means a BIG hit tou your damage dealing etc.. due to all the gcd's used up by dark-dealing. Not to mention the extra cast time for it.
Or could invest more into stam recov, and only use dark-deal for the odd top-up every 15 seconds or so - or for quicker recov out of combat. This way you can do more attacking, dodging etc.. as you're not so busy spamming dark-deal.
This would take a significant investment in recov to achieve (stamsorcs only have one passive for stam recov which is linked to a toggle which has to be slotted and doesn't actually do anything other than provide passive buffs - is it right to have to take up 2 slots just to get your class passive stam-recov bonus?)
But I think this is the way stamsorcs will mostly have to go. Which could even take it a step further in that dark deal actually ends up on the overload bar to make space for that passive regen bonus.. So dark deal would only ever be used for quick out of combat recovery.

Honestly, from someone who doesn't play stamsorc anymore, I don't think it will be anywhere near as strong in Morrowind as some believe.

Zodiac_

Power/Crit surge
Shield
Scamp damage
Best execute for group content especially in pvp
Dark exchange/Deal
Passive execute (implosion)
Ultimate cost reduction

and so on..

To the subject: Like it or not sorcs got all the love last patches and they are gonna be even stronger compared to all other classes in Morrowind if things stay as they are. Forum has been flooded with cries about templar jesus beam, nb cloak and ulti, DKs sustain and dmg mitigation for more than 2 years

Now that you have a class that is undeniable stronger as dd both in pve and pvp content and the ONLY class that Morrowind wont nerph or extinguish the elements that make it suitable for a role you still wonder why people complain?

Biro123

Zodiac_ wrote: »

Power/Crit surge
Shield
Scamp damage
Best execute for group content especially in pvp
Dark exchange/Deal
Passive execute (implosion)
Ultimate cost reduction

and so on..

To the subject: Like it or not sorcs got all the love last patches and they are gonna be even stronger compared to all other classes in Morrowind if things stay as they are. Forum has been flooded with cries about templar jesus beam, nb cloak and ulti, DKs sustain and dmg mitigation for more than 2 years

Now that you have a class that is undeniable stronger as dd both in pve and pvp content and the ONLY class that Morrowind wont nerph or extinguish the elements that make it suitable for a role you still wonder why people complain?

Another uninformed poster.. great..

On the part I bolded.. Here are the Morrowind Sorc-Specific Nerfs:
Frags damage reduction
Dark Exchange/deal cast time increase
Volatile familiar nerf.
Pirate Skeleton nerf (yes this is specifically a sorc nerf)

I'm not going to go into how the cp changes mean shields will get hit harder - or how proactively keeping defences up (even if they end up not being needed) is a big drain on resources - and therefore massively impacted by the resource changes. I'm not gonna go there cos I'm sick of repeating it. Every time I do, the sorc-haters seem to go quiet - then pop back up in another thread instead.

Shield? Everyone can have a shield. But now weakened by CP and Pirate skelly
Scamp Damage? You mean Volatile? The one that's getting a nerf?
Best execute? That's subjective. How would you like it to work? Which other execute won't kill you when you're below 20%?
Dark exchange.. I'm talking to a brick wall on that one - people only hear what they want to.
Implosion - Yes. Please Get rid of it and give is something more useful and not rng.
Ulti cost reduction.. hmm.. who instead has ulti regen passives/skills? Sorc certainly doesn't.

Next!

Chilly-McFreeze

Zodiac_ wrote: »

Power/Crit surge
Shield
Scamp damage
Best execute for group content especially in pvp
Dark exchange/Deal
Passive execute (implosion)
Ultimate cost reduction

and so on..

To the subject: Like it or not sorcs got all the love last patches and they are gonna be even stronger compared to all other classes in Morrowind if things stay as they are. Forum has been flooded with cries about templar jesus beam, nb cloak and ulti, DKs sustain and dmg mitigation for more than 2 years

Now that you have a class that is undeniable stronger as dd both in pve and pvp content and the ONLY class that Morrowind wont nerph or extinguish the elements that make it suitable for a role you still wonder why people complain?

What's up with surge? Most classes have access to major sorcery/brutality. Is it because of the heal? Yes, it's good in PvE. In PvP a high crit chance isn't as mandatory as in PvE, lowering the frequency of heals. BTW DK have a 40% (forty freakin percent!) to heavy attacks linked to their major sorcery.

Everyone has access to at least two shields. This isn't exactly an sorc-only mechanic. Don't know why this get's stated. Shields take a bump from not procing pirate skeleton anymore. Since regen get's more important max resources may suffer -> weaker shields. Frontloaded cp -> higher dmg against shields. Also there are hard counters to shields (shieldbreaker set, oblivion dmg). Mind that you use up resources and GCD while shield stacking -> shuts down offense

Scamp damage. ZOS stated to deal with this issue. Remember the time when no one used pets in a viable way because of all the downsides? 2-4 bar slots, clunky, bugged (stuck in walls, don't use players crit chance), hard to control, died to fast (lesser resistance than mobs, too low health), not enough damage, stealing raid buffs/heals/aggro? BTW It's really only one build that boosts your dps: necro + vol. familiar + prey. You also won't run into many pet builds in cyro bc they are clunky, unreliable and don't sneak -> giving away your position.

Best execute is arguable. It works different than other executes but has the lowest proc threshold. It's dodgable. I say jesus beam is at least on par, if not even better. Also, it still rings in my ears when people used to say "sorc execute is too bad to use, it takes too long between casting and hitting." Do you remember that too?

Dark exchange is a problem? Where? In PvE few sorcs even use that. In PvP you have to alter your build to use it without commiting suicide.
Dark Deal is strong. But got 3 indirect nerfs + 1 direct nerf. Don't be so ignorant, read what @Biro123 wrote.

Implosion has a 6% proc chance (this is really tiny, isn't it), if your opponent drops below 15% health (again, probably the lowest threshold in this game) when you do damage. There are undeniably situations in which implosion deciedes if your opponent lives or not. But mostly it's not. 15% of 30K health is 4.5K health. You have to deal damage to proc implosion, so any skill with more than 4.5K dmg would have been a killer anyway.

Utlimate cost reduction... really? This is a thing now? Somewhere in this forum was a comment, made not too long ago, where someone did the math and compared this to NBs higher ult gen. Result was that sorcs only outshine NB when the ultimate costs between 150 and 165 ultimate. How many ultimates cost that much? It isn't like a sorc gains ultimate by drinking a potion or get's resources back if he fires off any ult.

Also sorcs got nerfed. You simply lie in your comment. 10% dmg nerf on frags. Ten freakin percent. 20% cast time increase. Pirate skeleton rendered useless for shield users.
They got what buffs in the last time? A second curse explosion no one wanted (and most people don't use). A "buff" to pet's resistance to be on par with MOBS + health. And a bug fix in with scampy be effected by prey. As intented.

Or are you saying that this accessable to all destro changes are sorc-only?

Is it possible you jumped the bandwagon and parrot everything you read somewhere? Your post bursts with ignorance.

Tell me, if you strip sorcs off surge, shields, familiars, wrath, implosion, d/e, power stone + the nerfs from this patch - what would there be left? Seems like you only want sorcs to be in a bad place.

Zodiac_

Biro123 wrote: »

Another uninformed poster.. great..

On the part I bolded.. Here are the Morrowind Sorc-Specific Nerfs:
Frags damage reduction
Dark Exchange/deal cast time increase
Volatile familiar nerf.
Pirate Skeleton nerf (yes this is specifically a sorc nerf)

I'm not going to go into how the cp changes mean shields will get hit harder - or how proactively keeping defences up (even if they end up not being needed) is a big drain on resources - and therefore massively impacted by the resource changes. I'm not gonna go there cos I'm sick of repeating it. Every time I do, the sorc-haters seem to go quiet - then pop back up in another thread instead.

Shield? Everyone can have a shield. But now weakened by CP and Pirate skelly
Scamp Damage? You mean Volatile? The one that's getting a nerf?
Best execute? That's subjective. How would you like it to work? Which other execute won't kill you when you're below 20%?
Dark exchange.. I'm talking to a brick wall on that one - people only hear what they want to.
Implosion - Yes. Please Get rid of it and give is something more useful and not rng.
Ulti cost reduction.. hmm.. who instead has ulti regen passives/skills? Sorc certainly doesn't.

Next!

Since you are so well 'informed' maybe you should go through the cp changes again and see if you can completely negate the frag change in morrowind

Everyone can have a shield : Please enlight us where conjured ward which stacks with all other shields is located in the other class skill lines

0.2 sec increase in dark exchange as an argument = lol

if you dont know why sorc execute is currently the best for group pvp content or you consider that subjective you really need to l2p

Pirate skeleton nerph is mag sorc specific nerph? somehow doesn't make sense with your shield argument. And since you are well 'informed' didnt see something about proc chance change

Implosion - Yes. Please Get rid of it and give is something more useful and not rng. Something more useful than a passive than can do a *** ton of damage able to proc on every type of shock damage you do? Really???

If you weren't so arrogant in your reply i would have responded in a different way but as you wish.

BNOC

TheHsN wrote: »

Prospero_ESO wrote: »

TheHsN wrote: »

Did u read my last sentences....PLS...read all first..

So you want to bring the NB on the same level as Sorc dmg wise ? Yes great idea and pls make it so that bone pirate set grants NB´s perma stealth. Sounds legit...

TheHsN wrote: »

and second, in PVP perspective you can only give that answer...
Templar has self heal to dont die and they die very very very hardly...

LOL honestly ? Yes but they don´t dish out a ton of damage while doing that........

TheHsN wrote: »

NB: they have cloak and movement speed...and hugeeee BURST than all classes

Soul assault, Poisons, Stealth problem fixed.

THEY DONT MAKE DAMAGE???!!!!OMG which game u play...

Have you seen the twilight heals? Combined with crit surge - If you gave templars a 15k shield and they could pop 10k heals whilst that's protecting them you'd be kicking off, especially if they could take another .2s to reapply the shield at any time, or continuously.

Turelus wrote: »

TheHsN wrote: »

Turelus wrote: »

It's not about it being the best DPS, it's about it being so much better it's becoming the only viable option.

If a class can pull 2k DPS more then that's not an issue, player skill will balance that out, however the sorcerer can will potentially 10k more? Whilst also having a shield in excess of 20k and the option to have pets doing damage as well.

Right now it's just doing too much in too many areas, it doesn't need nerfing below all the others, just some of its power knocked down a little to be close to the others.

Can u make vMOL with sorc as TANK...
if u cant make it yes 10k more DPS is nothing...

Or can u heal vMOL with sorcerer if u cant 10K more DPS again it isnt anything...
This game is making mistakes about it...

Tank is tank
healar is healar
DPS is DPS

classes doesnt have their definations very well.. every class can be anything is wrong to my MMo ideas....

And they dont even need to touch SORC they need to tune up others intead op tuned down to sorc

If you can't tank as a Sorc, then that means sorc tanking needs buffing.

Remember the game is not built on "one class for each role" although some may do it better. You can't make the argument "my class should outperform all others by a massive amount because I underperform in something else".

I'm going to go ahead and say that you probably could complete vMOL with a sorc as both tank and healer.

"10K more DPS again it isnt anything" - 10k DPS is MASSIVE.

theamazingx

PlS donut nerF sorc pleeass jus bring all other clas up pls

Translation: Muh Parse

Zodiac_

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

Zodiac_ wrote: »

Power/Crit surge
Shield
Scamp damage
Best execute for group content especially in pvp
Dark exchange/Deal
Passive execute (implosion)
Ultimate cost reduction

and so on..

To the subject: Like it or not sorcs got all the love last patches and they are gonna be even stronger compared to all other classes in Morrowind if things stay as they are. Forum has been flooded with cries about templar jesus beam, nb cloak and ulti, DKs sustain and dmg mitigation for more than 2 years

Now that you have a class that is undeniable stronger as dd both in pve and pvp content and the ONLY class that Morrowind wont nerph or extinguish the elements that make it suitable for a role you still wonder why people complain?

What's up with surge? Most classes have access to major sorcery/brutality. Is it because of the heal? Yes, it's good in PvE. In PvP a high crit chance isn't as mandatory as in PvE, lowering the frequency of heals. BTW DK have a 40% (forty freakin percent!) to heavy attacks linked to their major sorcery.

Everyone has access to at least two shields. This isn't exactly an sorc-only mechanic. Don't know why this get's stated. Shields take a bump from not procing pirate skeleton anymore. Since regen get's more important max resources may suffer -> weaker shields. Frontloaded cp -> higher dmg against shields. Also there are hard counters to shields (shieldbreaker set, oblivion dmg). Mind that you use up resources and GCD while shield stacking -> shuts down offense

Scamp damage. ZOS stated to deal with this issue. Remember the time when no one used pets in a viable way because of all the downsides? 2-4 bar slots, clunky, bugged (stuck in walls, don't use players crit chance), hard to control, died to fast (lesser resistance than mobs, too low health), not enough damage, stealing raid buffs/heals/aggro? BTW It's really only one build that boosts your dps: necro + vol. familiar + prey. You also won't run into many pet builds in cyro bc they are clunky, unreliable and don't sneak -> giving away your position.

Best execute is arguable. It works different than other executes but has the lowest proc threshold. It's dodgable. I say jesus beam is at least on par, if not even better. Also, it still rings in my ears when people used to say "sorc execute is too bad to use, it takes too long between casting and hitting." Do you remember that too?

Dark exchange is a problem? Where? In PvE few sorcs even use that. In PvP you have to alter your build to use it without commiting suicide.
Dark Deal is strong. But got 3 indirect nerfs + 1 direct nerf. Don't be so ignorant, read what @Biro123 wrote.

Implosion has a 6% proc chance (this is really tiny, isn't it), if your opponent drops below 15% health (again, probably the lowest threshold in this game) when you do damage. There are undeniably situations in which implosion deciedes if your opponent lives or not. But mostly it's not. 15% of 30K health is 4.5K health. You have to deal damage to proc implosion, so any skill with more than 4.5K dmg would have been a killer anyway.

Utlimate cost reduction... really? This is a thing now? Somewhere in this forum was a comment, made not too long ago, where someone did the math and compared this to NBs higher ult gen. Result was that sorcs only outshine NB when the ultimate costs between 150 and 165 ultimate. How many ultimates cost that much? It isn't like a sorc gains ultimate by drinking a potion or get's resources back if he fires off any ult.

Also sorcs got nerfed. You simply lie in your comment. 10% dmg nerf on frags. Ten freakin percent. 20% cast time increase. Pirate skeleton rendered useless for shield users.
They got what buffs in the last time? A second curse explosion no one wanted (and most people don't use). A "buff" to pet's resistance to be on par with MOBS + health. And a bug fix in with scampy be effected by prey. As intented.

Or are you saying that this accessable to all destro changes are sorc-only?

Is it possible you jumped the bandwagon and parrot everything you read somewhere? Your post bursts with ignorance.

Tell me, if you strip sorcs off surge, shields, familiars, wrath, implosion, d/e, power stone + the nerfs from this patch - what would there be left? Seems like you only want sorcs to be in a bad place.

If presenting the facts is called bust of ignorance i really cant help you with that. I was expecting furious responses from sorc lovers (i guess i am a sorc hater based on your comment) but at least with the use of arguments which is (i quote)

Also sorcs got nerfed. You simply lie in your comment. 10% dmg nerf on frags. Ten freakin percent. 20% cast time increase. Pirate skeleton rendered useless for shield users. You try to argue that sorcs dont need

Tell me where i lie considering the new cp diminishing returns and the new direct dmg buff you will have for frags with new cp and how exactly a 0.2 sec increase can be considerde a nerph to the class

Implosion percent isnt tiny since it can proc in every single type of shock or physical damage you do

You said my message bursts from ignorance but i really doubt how well you know your class and how OP is atm and how even more it will be in morrowind. But what is sure is that you didnt even read my whole post you just hurried to respond

Biro123

Zodiac_ wrote: »

Biro123 wrote: »

Another uninformed poster.. great..

On the part I bolded.. Here are the Morrowind Sorc-Specific Nerfs:
Frags damage reduction
Dark Exchange/deal cast time increase
Volatile familiar nerf.
Pirate Skeleton nerf (yes this is specifically a sorc nerf)

I'm not going to go into how the cp changes mean shields will get hit harder - or how proactively keeping defences up (even if they end up not being needed) is a big drain on resources - and therefore massively impacted by the resource changes. I'm not gonna go there cos I'm sick of repeating it. Every time I do, the sorc-haters seem to go quiet - then pop back up in another thread instead.

Shield? Everyone can have a shield. But now weakened by CP and Pirate skelly
Scamp Damage? You mean Volatile? The one that's getting a nerf?
Best execute? That's subjective. How would you like it to work? Which other execute won't kill you when you're below 20%?
Dark exchange.. I'm talking to a brick wall on that one - people only hear what they want to.
Implosion - Yes. Please Get rid of it and give is something more useful and not rng.
Ulti cost reduction.. hmm.. who instead has ulti regen passives/skills? Sorc certainly doesn't.

Next!

Since you are so well 'informed' maybe you should go through the cp changes again and see if you can completely negate the frag change in morrowind

Everyone can have a shield : Please enlight us where conjured ward which stacks with all other shields is located in the other class skill lines

0.2 sec increase in dark exchange as an argument = lol

if you dont know why sorc execute is currently the best for group pvp content or you consider that subjective you really need to l2p

Pirate skeleton nerph is mag sorc specific nerph? somehow doesn't make sense with your shield argument. And since you are well 'informed' didnt see something about proc chance change

Implosion - Yes. Please Get rid of it and give is something more useful and not rng.

If you weren't so arrogant in your reply i would have responded in a different way but as you wish.

How about you elaborate then and explain why you think those items are overpowered - and suggest a more balanced alternative?

I do apologise for my reply - I'm just getting wound up by the constant 'nerf sorcs' posts that add nothing in terms of proof, numbers, or persuasive arguments. I've explained several times in several posts in detail, with numbers how several of the generic changes negatively impact sorcs in various ways. Yet these posts keep on coming with nothing to back them up and repeatedly ignoring the efforts I keep making to explain how sorcs have been impacted.

I count 5 indirect nerfs to shields in the morrowind patch. Yet people still come along and say sorcs op cos 'shields'.

Biro123

Zodiac_ wrote: »

Tell me where i lie considering the new cp diminishing returns and the new direct dmg buff you will have for frags with new cp and how exactly a 0.2 sec increase can be considerde a nerph to the class

On this one, yes, there is a new CP to buff direct damage (which everyone can use, I note).

But there is also a new CP to directly reduce incoming direct damage. Now this, and the dot equivalent are more effective than the physical/elemental equivalents, and so WILL be used. SO from a PVP perspective - these balance out.

On frontloading.. There have always been two stars for shields. Now on the subject of shields - the kind of shields that people complain about are on builds that focus on shield strength - these builds maximise magica and also bastion. Frontloaded bastion now gives 20% shield strength bonus with an investment of 50CP. Nobody is gonna spend another 50cp to add to get that extra 5% - so there we have a kind of indirect nerf of 5% to shield strength.
Again - frontloading. The counter to shields - Shattering Blows? (I'm terrible at remembering names for abilities - more of a numbers person). For only 50cp in here, you get 20% extra damage to shields. And since every other star is benefitted by frontloading - you have those 50cp's to spare...
So, where CP's generally used to give sorcs a net 25% gain to shield strength - In morrowind, that becomes 0.

Yes, realistically, people have always put some leftovers into shattering anyway - so it will probably be more like a 20% nerf than 25% - but there you go.

Without losing Pirate Skelly, without having to lose max mag to be able to sustain, and without counting the new set that goes straight through shields, we're starting with a 20% nerf to shields.

On Dark Deal.. Well, read my earlier post (or was it in the other thread? losing track) .. If you choose to disregard it - then look at it instead as a 20% cast time increase as opposed to just 0.2 seconds. 20% is a significant nerf.

BNOC

Biro123 wrote: »

Zodiac_ wrote: »

Tell me where i lie considering the new cp diminishing returns and the new direct dmg buff you will have for frags with new cp and how exactly a 0.2 sec increase can be considerde a nerph to the class

On frontloading.. There have always been two stars for shields. Now on the subject of shields - the kind of shields that people complain about are on builds that focus on shield strength - these builds maximise magica and also bastion. Frontloaded bastion now gives 20% shield strength bonus with an investment of 50CP. Nobody is gonna spend another 50cp to add to get that extra 5% - so there we have a kind of indirect nerf of 5% to shield strength.
Again - frontloading. The counter to shields - Shattering Blows? (I'm terrible at remembering names for abilities - more of a numbers person). For only 50cp in here, you get 20% extra damage to shields. And since every other star is benefitted by frontloading - you have those 50cp's to spare...
So, where CP's generally used to give sorcs a net 25% gain to shield strength - In morrowind, that becomes 0.

Yes, realistically, people have always put some leftovers into shattering anyway - so it will probably be more like a 20% nerf than 25% - but there you go.

Investing only 50CP, you'd lose what?
E.g.
5% of 15k is 750 - 14.25k shield
5% of 20k is 1k = 19k shield

Doesn't seem like a big nerf to an instant cast ability.

The part in bold makes no sense - You get a 20% gain to shield strength in Morrowind for only 50CP, no?

You're assuming that people will be spending 50CP that they normally wouldn't into shattering blows for sorcs, that probably* isn't the best overall distribution and you'll probably lose base damage or whatever else so I doubt it - Some sorcs on the other hand are saving 50CP? Or some at least on bastion that can now be used to put up mitigation on DoT's or whatever they want which in turn makes my damage weaker (Shields stronger in comparison)

People can invest 50CP into SB and hit 20% harder on shields, but they still can't crit them so you'd only ever be doing 20% of base damage and 100CP bastion Sorcs will now have 5% weaker shields but 50CP spare that's used for damage reduction.


Maybe I'm thinking about that the wrong way?

Biro123

BNOC wrote: »

Biro123 wrote: »

Zodiac_ wrote: »

Tell me where i lie considering the new cp diminishing returns and the new direct dmg buff you will have for frags with new cp and how exactly a 0.2 sec increase can be considerde a nerph to the class

On frontloading.. There have always been two stars for shields. Now on the subject of shields - the kind of shields that people complain about are on builds that focus on shield strength - these builds maximise magica and also bastion. Frontloaded bastion now gives 20% shield strength bonus with an investment of 50CP. Nobody is gonna spend another 50cp to add to get that extra 5% - so there we have a kind of indirect nerf of 5% to shield strength.
Again - frontloading. The counter to shields - Shattering Blows? (I'm terrible at remembering names for abilities - more of a numbers person). For only 50cp in here, you get 20% extra damage to shields. And since every other star is benefitted by frontloading - you have those 50cp's to spare...
So, where CP's generally used to give sorcs a net 25% gain to shield strength - In morrowind, that becomes 0.

Yes, realistically, people have always put some leftovers into shattering anyway - so it will probably be more like a 20% nerf than 25% - but there you go.

Investing only 50CP, you'd lose what?
E.g.
5% of 15k is 750 - 14.25k shield
5% of 20k is 1k = 19k shield

Doesn't seem like a big nerf to an instant cast ability.

The part in bold makes no sense - You get a 20% gain to shield strength in Morrowind for only 50CP, no?

You're assuming that people will be spending 50CP that they normally wouldn't into shattering blows for sorcs, that probably* isn't the best overall distribution and you'll probably lose base damage or whatever else so I doubt it - Some sorcs on the other hand are saving 50CP? Or some at least on bastion that can now be used to put up mitigation on DoT's or whatever they want which in turn makes my damage weaker (Shields stronger in comparison)

People can invest 50CP into SB and hit 20% harder on shields, but they still can't crit them so you'd only ever be doing 20% of base damage and 100CP bastion Sorcs will now have 5% weaker shields but 50CP spare that's used for damage reduction.


Maybe I'm thinking about that the wrong way?

Yeah, there's a lot of moving parts. That 50cp saved will likely go on the new CP to reduce direct damage which everyone is gonna use. Don't forget that there are an extra 30CP to play with too. I've played around with the cp's on the test server - and trust me it's VERY easy to get 20% in shieldbreaker while losing very little else . And to be honest - anybody who doesn't do this will have a pretty weak argument if they still think shields are too strong.

But to explain what I meant in the bold part a bit better (hopefully) we have..:

Current:
sorcs - 25% Bastion
Everyone else - 0-5% shattering
= 20-25% net gain for sorcs

Morrowind:
sorcs - 20% Bastion
Everyone else - 20% Shattering
= 0% net gain for sorcs

That's where my 25% difference comes from - the difference between current and morrowind.

Chilly-McFreeze

Zodiac_ wrote: »

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

Zodiac_ wrote: »

Power/Crit surge
Shield
Scamp damage
Best execute for group content especially in pvp
Dark exchange/Deal
Passive execute (implosion)
Ultimate cost reduction

and so on..

To the subject: Like it or not sorcs got all the love last patches and they are gonna be even stronger compared to all other classes in Morrowind if things stay as they are. Forum has been flooded with cries about templar jesus beam, nb cloak and ulti, DKs sustain and dmg mitigation for more than 2 years

Now that you have a class that is undeniable stronger as dd both in pve and pvp content and the ONLY class that Morrowind wont nerph or extinguish the elements that make it suitable for a role you still wonder why people complain?

What's up with surge? Most classes have access to major sorcery/brutality. Is it because of the heal? Yes, it's good in PvE. In PvP a high crit chance isn't as mandatory as in PvE, lowering the frequency of heals. BTW DK have a 40% (forty freakin percent!) to heavy attacks linked to their major sorcery.

Everyone has access to at least two shields. This isn't exactly an sorc-only mechanic. Don't know why this get's stated. Shields take a bump from not procing pirate skeleton anymore. Since regen get's more important max resources may suffer -> weaker shields. Frontloaded cp -> higher dmg against shields. Also there are hard counters to shields (shieldbreaker set, oblivion dmg). Mind that you use up resources and GCD while shield stacking -> shuts down offense

Scamp damage. ZOS stated to deal with this issue. Remember the time when no one used pets in a viable way because of all the downsides? 2-4 bar slots, clunky, bugged (stuck in walls, don't use players crit chance), hard to control, died to fast (lesser resistance than mobs, too low health), not enough damage, stealing raid buffs/heals/aggro? BTW It's really only one build that boosts your dps: necro + vol. familiar + prey. You also won't run into many pet builds in cyro bc they are clunky, unreliable and don't sneak -> giving away your position.

Best execute is arguable. It works different than other executes but has the lowest proc threshold. It's dodgable. I say jesus beam is at least on par, if not even better. Also, it still rings in my ears when people used to say "sorc execute is too bad to use, it takes too long between casting and hitting." Do you remember that too?

Dark exchange is a problem? Where? In PvE few sorcs even use that. In PvP you have to alter your build to use it without commiting suicide.
Dark Deal is strong. But got 3 indirect nerfs + 1 direct nerf. Don't be so ignorant, read what @Biro123 wrote.

Implosion has a 6% proc chance (this is really tiny, isn't it), if your opponent drops below 15% health (again, probably the lowest threshold in this game) when you do damage. There are undeniably situations in which implosion deciedes if your opponent lives or not. But mostly it's not. 15% of 30K health is 4.5K health. You have to deal damage to proc implosion, so any skill with more than 4.5K dmg would have been a killer anyway.

Utlimate cost reduction... really? This is a thing now? Somewhere in this forum was a comment, made not too long ago, where someone did the math and compared this to NBs higher ult gen. Result was that sorcs only outshine NB when the ultimate costs between 150 and 165 ultimate. How many ultimates cost that much? It isn't like a sorc gains ultimate by drinking a potion or get's resources back if he fires off any ult.

Also sorcs got nerfed. You simply lie in your comment. 10% dmg nerf on frags. Ten freakin percent. 20% cast time increase. Pirate skeleton rendered useless for shield users.
They got what buffs in the last time? A second curse explosion no one wanted (and most people don't use). A "buff" to pet's resistance to be on par with MOBS + health. And a bug fix in with scampy be effected by prey. As intented.

Or are you saying that this accessable to all destro changes are sorc-only?

Is it possible you jumped the bandwagon and parrot everything you read somewhere? Your post bursts with ignorance.

Tell me, if you strip sorcs off surge, shields, familiars, wrath, implosion, d/e, power stone + the nerfs from this patch - what would there be left? Seems like you only want sorcs to be in a bad place.

If presenting the facts is called bust of ignorance i really cant help you with that. I was expecting furious responses from sorc lovers (i guess i am a sorc hater based on your comment) but at least with the use of arguments which is (i quote)

Also sorcs got nerfed. You simply lie in your comment. 10% dmg nerf on frags. Ten freakin percent. 20% cast time increase. Pirate skeleton rendered useless for shield users. You try to argue that sorcs dont need

Tell me where i lie considering the new cp diminishing returns and the new direct dmg buff you will have for frags with new cp and how exactly a 0.2 sec increase can be considerde a nerph to the class

Implosion percent isnt tiny since it can proc in every single type of shock or physical damage you do

You said my message bursts from ignorance but i really doubt how well you know your class and how OP is atm and how even more it will be in morrowind. But what is sure is that you didnt even read my whole post you just hurried to respond

What facts are you stating? "Best execute" without even explaining why it's better than an undodgable templar execute.
I'll give it to you that familiar's pulse is overperforming right now, ZOS already said they will look into it. Expect nerfs.

Shields' worth decreases rapidly when there are more than one attacker, where dodge roll gains value in an Xv1 scenario. Dodge Roll op now? What about frontloading shattering blows? Biro123 wrote how frontloading effects bastion as well.

I barely never have implosion on my recap. I would have died one way or the other when I recieve damage while being under 15%, since my sorc doesn't have a 0-100 on demand healing. Sitting at 25k health means 15% are 3,75K health left. If someone hits with a force pulse, wrath/ reverse slice, snipe, wrecking blow or whatever in order to proc implosion, I most likely would have died alone from the skill. If you think 15% health threshold is too high, you might want to tell me your feelings about executes starting to scale at 50%. If you think 6% is too much, you might want to write a bit about how you think about BSW, Red Mountain, Tremor scale...
EDIT: implosion's strenght doesn't even scale with magicka/stamina but with health.

Right now you have to invest into stam/stam regen if you want to safely use dark exchange. Getting CC'ed while out of stam is a death sentence to every light armor user. Can't recast shields while stunned.
After the patch you wont see dark deal quite as often as before. With the nerfs to black rose (why should a class be punished for an armor set anyway?) + 42% constitution nerf (that's a big deal) stam sorcs need to invest into mag regen. But then again, those enchants or set boni could be spend at better places.

Ult cost reduction is barely a problem. In all the time I saw one guy complaining about that. Not sure if that was you too. If I find that comment with the math I'll link you to it.

Yes, 20% cast time increase is a nerf. You might feel that it's not enough, that doesn't make it any less a nerf.
10% Frag damage is also a huge nerf. I don't know what you would think of 10% dmg nerf on whip, surprise attack etc. Yes, there will be a new cp that raises direct dmg. Doesn't change the fact that it's dmg got a 10% nerf. If you apply your logic, each dmg skill should get a 10% nerf bc you know, there is a new cp to buff it back up. Don't forget the new cp to mitigate direct dmg. To say Sorcs recieved no nerf is still ignorant. No matter how you put it. It wouldn't be as ingorant if you say you feel the cast time is still too short and frags too strong, but you completely ignore the nerfs.

BTW, I play on every class. Mag DK, magblade, magplar and, yes, a totally *** up hybrid sorc. And I'm not a fan of the other class nerfs. Doesn't mean I have to agree with your statements.

Tinus_92

Well, look where this thread went into.

The only thing pve nonsorcs like me want is that sorcs (especially magsorcs) are getting balanced with the other damage classes again so that other classes, like my templar dd, won't be denied out of trials anymore and be at least even a bit equally competetive. Let's not talk about stamina and NBs there, because I have yet to see them in top-level raids this patch.

grim_tactics

I've spent extensive time in Cyrodiil with my Sorc sense seeing all these nerf Sorcs to the ground threads.

I'm not going to speak of Mag DKs cause I know they got hit and they may have a point......but NBs need to chill out and just stop crying.

I've come to the conclusion that the NBs wanting a Sorc nerf are because they are by far the most prevalent in PvP. I am assuming this is because of the insane bursts they could do back during the gank proc set builds that were just insanely OP.

Every time I pick up the daily "Kill 20 NBs" I can finish this in less than an hour because they are everywhere when raiding keeps. They also seem to be the first class to just run head first into a Zerg and die trying to get 1 kill.

They can't use "Sorcs are OP, fix shields BS."

Why? Because a good NB build and player that have any common sense will pick their spots and absolutely destroy a Sorc.

For example - even with shields on - my death recap against this guy was:

Surprise Attack 5000
Surprise attack 8300
Surprise Attack 8250
Incap 15350
Velidreth (can't remember the tick)

Even shield stacked I heard essentially 3 blade noises and was instantly dead. It was so fast I couldn't even cast shields or streak to get out.

So any NB complaining about Sorcs are op need to actually L2P. I wish I had that amount of DPS as a Sorc.

On top of that - Sorc Ultimates are complete crap.

Negate - good for utility but not much else. Definitely not for damage. Just get out of the bubble.

Storm Atronach - trash for PvP group play, good for dueling 1v1 but even then can be killed before it does much damage.

Overload - utility for 3rd bar. Good players or anyone paying attention can dodge these or block all day long.

Destro Ult - just get out of the circle and don't stand there like an idiot.

The others, like Shooting Star and Soul Assualt, are good but Meteor can be blocked and Soul Assualt can be healed/shielded through.

Again, those that want Sorc nerfs are playing the game wrong.

Destruent

Tinus_92 wrote: »

Well, look where this thread went into.

The only thing pve nonsorcs like me want is that sorcs (especially magsorcs) are getting balanced with the other damage classes again so that other classes, like my templar dd, won't be denied out of trials anymore and be at least even a bit equally competetive. Let's not talk about stamina and NBs there, because I have yet to see them in top-level raids this patch.

this...nothing else...

A ranged class is outdpsing every melee and other ranged dps by a lot...this needs fixing. Best thing to nerf should be the 2...3 strongest sorc-DPS-Skills, isn't it? There we go: scamp-pulse, liquid lightning, frags.

And before anyone is saying: buff other classes mimimi. ZOS is ok with the DPS of templar/DK and wants to bring other classes on this level. They won't change this decission, so get over it.

Chilly-McFreeze

Destruent wrote: »

Tinus_92 wrote: »

Well, look where this thread went into.

The only thing pve nonsorcs like me want is that sorcs (especially magsorcs) are getting balanced with the other damage classes again so that other classes, like my templar dd, won't be denied out of trials anymore and be at least even a bit equally competetive. Let's not talk about stamina and NBs there, because I have yet to see them in top-level raids this patch.

this...nothing else...

A ranged class is outdpsing every melee and other ranged dps by a lot...this needs fixing. Best thing to nerf should be the 2...3 strongest sorc-DPS-Skills, isn't it? There we go: scamp-pulse, liquid lightning, frags.

And before anyone is saying: buff other classes mimimi. ZOS is ok with the DPS of templar/DK and wants to bring other classes on this level. They won't change this decission, so get over it.

By that logic "Until now ZOS is ok with the DPS of mSorcs. Until they change this decision, get over it."

But on topic: Frags already nerfed, scamp nerf is announced. But they said they will take a look at mSorcs dps. While I might add that the issue seems to be the high dps pet Sorcs can achieve. So might look how a change in that field will play out before hammering mandatory skills every mag sorc has to use.

Destruent

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

Destruent wrote: »

Tinus_92 wrote: »

Well, look where this thread went into.

The only thing pve nonsorcs like me want is that sorcs (especially magsorcs) are getting balanced with the other damage classes again so that other classes, like my templar dd, won't be denied out of trials anymore and be at least even a bit equally competetive. Let's not talk about stamina and NBs there, because I have yet to see them in top-level raids this patch.

this...nothing else...

A ranged class is outdpsing every melee and other ranged dps by a lot...this needs fixing. Best thing to nerf should be the 2...3 strongest sorc-DPS-Skills, isn't it? There we go: scamp-pulse, liquid lightning, frags.

And before anyone is saying: buff other classes mimimi. ZOS is ok with the DPS of templar/DK and wants to bring other classes on this level. They won't change this decission, so get over it.

By that logic "Until now ZOS is ok with the DPS of mSorcs. Until they change this decision, get over it."

But on topic: Frags already nerfed, scamp nerf is announced. But they said they will take a look at mSorcs dps. While I might add that the issue seems to be the high dps pet Sorcs can achieve. So might look how a change in that field will play out before hammering mandatory skills every mag sorc has to use.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hzl4tAX5BFA

nonpetbuild...still more dps than other classes.

and yes...if they change their decission you could say this
But atm it's kinda pointless to ask for buffs so other classes get on the level on magsorcs.

makreth

Nerf sorc!

OP toss your precious little sorc to the trash and start a new NB, join our association. Then you can shout with us for nerfs and make more awesome posts. I don't really like this one.