SORCERER ...PLS!!!

TheHsN

Why it is very bad problem for people that SORCERER is the best DPS CLASS,

Dk: it is the best TANK class by far...but nobody says that why Sorcerer isnt the best tank or as good as DK...
Healar: Why Templar is the best Healar Class by far than other classes...And why nobody ask that why My Sorcerer is the best Healar class and why not as good as Templar...

CUZ damn SORC is not a TANK OR HEALAR class... it is PURE DPS class
SO... Of course its DPS should be more than Other CLASSES....
Just need to make NB TUNE UP as equal to SORC....

sajahu

By nerfing sorc dps, maybe we could get some further tweaks later to be more viable tanks or healers I want my sorc to be a nice competitive offtank!!

TheHsN

sajahu wrote: »

By nerfing sorc dps, maybe we could get some further tweaks later to be more viable tanks or healers I want my sorc to be a nice competitive offtank!!

Thats GREEDY of people like this:D...

ZOS cant make BALANCE and even destroying it all...:):):)

Prospero_ESO

TheHsN wrote: »

CUZ damn SORC is not a TANK OR HEALAR class... it is PURE DPS class
SO... Of course its DPS should be more than Other CLASSES....
Just need to make NB and SORC as equal....

Flawed argument. Why is Sorc better than a NB then ?

Second, its not only the dmg that makes Sorcs ridiculous, its their dmg while being incredible tanky and mobile at the same time. Where is risk vs reward ?

TheHsN

Prospero_ESO wrote: »

TheHsN wrote: »

CUZ damn SORC is not a TANK OR HEALAR class... it is PURE DPS class
SO... Of course its DPS should be more than Other CLASSES....
Just need to make NB and SORC as equal....

Flawed argument. Why is Sorc better than a NB then ?

Second, its not only the dmg that makes Sorcs ridiculous, its their dmg while being incredible tanky and mobile at the same time. Where is risk vs reward ?

Did u read my last sentences....PLS...read all first..


and second, in PVP perspective you can only give that answer...

Templar has self heal to dont die and they die very very very hardly...
DK is already hardest to kill class and had good DMG..(morrowind killed that i know)
NB: they have cloak and movement speed...and hugeeee BURST than all classes
Sorcerer has shield...

Vapirko

Two things mess up this game in terms of balance.

Min/max trials groups that won't take anyone along but the meta builds (understandable if they want to do no death/speed runs). Nevertheless people complain when they get kicked for not running a meta build, which is understandable in pugs, but honestly join a good guild and no one's gonna kick you on a normal farming run for not having the perfect setup, and will probably help you through a vet trial if you ask nicely and run a reasonable build.

PvP. I love PvP but it is the reason sorcs are being hunted with torches and pitchforks.

Draqone

Vapirko wrote: »

Min/max trials groups that won't take anyone along but the meta builds (understandable if they want to do no death/speed runs).

It's not even a problem of min-maxing. My group runs vTrials and I still have to limit the amount of melee characters, especially stamina, because of some AoE mechanics that punish being close to the boss or not having shields. I never had to tell anyone though "Sorry, we can't take another magSorc because *mechanics* ".

Chilly-McFreeze

Prospero_ESO wrote: »

TheHsN wrote: »

CUZ damn SORC is not a TANK OR HEALAR class... it is PURE DPS class
SO... Of course its DPS should be more than Other CLASSES....
Just need to make NB and SORC as equal....

Flawed argument. Why is Sorc better than a NB then ?

Second, its not only the dmg that makes Sorcs ridiculous, its their dmg while being incredible tanky and mobile at the same time. Where is risk vs reward ?

As for the tanking part:
Can you tell me how a Shield is better than high resistance, blocking or especially dodging in a Xv1 situation? Sure, shields are very good in 1v1 but the more attackers there are the worse shields performe in comparison to dodging.
You also know that the Pirate Skeleton monster set gets changed so it becomes really unreliable for shield users.

mobility:
Streak is potent to say the least. But it has it downsides. Increasing costs. Lost momentum. Vulnerable to gap closer spam. Doesn't make you mitigate or dodge incoming ranged attacks. And that cloak is broken isn't a reason to compromise sorcs mobility but to fix that cloak skill. Cloak and shadow image make a good mobility as well. DK and Templar are more designed to stand their ground, hence the lower mobility.

My personal experience:
Sure, there are incredible hard to kill sorcs in PvP. Mostly due to their players skills or the at the moment broken Pirate Skeleton. But otherwise, the ordinary Templar or DK are a far bigger nuisance to kill than any sorc. At least for me.

Turelus

It's not about it being the best DPS, it's about it being so much better it's becoming the only viable option.

If a class can pull 2k DPS more then that's not an issue, player skill will balance that out, however the sorcerer can will potentially 10k more? Whilst also having a shield in excess of 20k and the option to have pets doing damage as well.

Right now it's just doing too much in too many areas, it doesn't need nerfing below all the others, just some of its power knocked down a little to be close to the others.

Chilly-McFreeze

Turelus wrote: »

It's not about it being the best DPS, it's about it being so much better it's becoming the only viable option.

If a class can pull 2k DPS more then that's not an issue, player skill will balance that out, however the sorcerer can will potentially 10k more? Whilst also having a shield in excess of 20k and the option to have pets doing damage as well.

Right now it's just doing too much in too many areas, it doesn't need nerfing below all the others, just some of its power knocked down a little to be close to the others.

Are the highest dps achieved by pet Sorcs or by non-pet mSorcs? If it's the first, than this should be no incentive to change a whole class' potential just bc of one of many build options. Then the pets should brought a bit in line. Especially, or exclusivly, familiar's pulse.

TheHsN

Turelus wrote: »

It's not about it being the best DPS, it's about it being so much better it's becoming the only viable option.

If a class can pull 2k DPS more then that's not an issue, player skill will balance that out, however the sorcerer can will potentially 10k more? Whilst also having a shield in excess of 20k and the option to have pets doing damage as well.

Right now it's just doing too much in too many areas, it doesn't need nerfing below all the others, just some of its power knocked down a little to be close to the others.

Can u make vMOL with sorc as TANK...
if u cant make it yes 10k more DPS is nothing...

Or can u heal vMOL with sorcerer if u cant 10K more DPS again it isnt anything...
This game is making mistakes about it...

Tank is tank
healar is healar
DPS is DPS

classes doesnt have their definations very well.. every class can be anything is wrong to my MMo ideas....

And they dont even need to touch SORC they need to tune up others intead op tuned down to sorc

F7sus4

Cast+buff pet. Cast Blockade. Cast Liquid. Spam hard-cast Crystal Frags like standard Group Finder pug. Depending on external buffs - still 20-25k DPS.

Now achieve similar result on magNB with such ease. Thanks!

Turelus

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

Turelus wrote: »

It's not about it being the best DPS, it's about it being so much better it's becoming the only viable option.

If a class can pull 2k DPS more then that's not an issue, player skill will balance that out, however the sorcerer can will potentially 10k more? Whilst also having a shield in excess of 20k and the option to have pets doing damage as well.

Right now it's just doing too much in too many areas, it doesn't need nerfing below all the others, just some of its power knocked down a little to be close to the others.

Are the highest dps achieved by pet Sorcs or by non-pet mSorcs? If it's the first, than this should be no incentive to change a whole class' potential just bc of one of many build options. Then the pets should brought a bit in line. Especially, or exclusivly, familiar's pulse.

As I said, no need to nerf everything into the ground. ZOS would and should look at where the gaps are made, and tone them back.
The resistance to literally any change to sorcerers isn't a helpful one if people want to mitigate the damage of the nerfs when they come. It would be better to agree, find what would be acceptable without gutting the class.

TheHsN

F7sus4 wrote: »

Cast+buff pet. Cast Blockade. Cast Liquid. Spam hard-cast Crystal Frags like standard Group Finder pug. Depending on external buffs - still 20-25k DPS.

Now achieve similar result on magNB with such ease. Thanks!

Just put reaarming trap and Bloodthirst 20 k..if velidreth procs 25 k dont do anything else:D...

pls compare all as fair as others...

Turelus

TheHsN wrote: »

Turelus wrote: »

It's not about it being the best DPS, it's about it being so much better it's becoming the only viable option.

If a class can pull 2k DPS more then that's not an issue, player skill will balance that out, however the sorcerer can will potentially 10k more? Whilst also having a shield in excess of 20k and the option to have pets doing damage as well.

Right now it's just doing too much in too many areas, it doesn't need nerfing below all the others, just some of its power knocked down a little to be close to the others.

Can u make vMOL with sorc as TANK...
if u cant make it yes 10k more DPS is nothing...

Or can u heal vMOL with sorcerer if u cant 10K more DPS again it isnt anything...
This game is making mistakes about it...

Tank is tank
healar is healar
DPS is DPS

classes doesnt have their definations very well.. every class can be anything is wrong to my MMo ideas....

And they dont even need to touch SORC they need to tune up others intead op tuned down to sorc

If you can't tank as a Sorc, then that means sorc tanking needs buffing.

Remember the game is not built on "one class for each role" although some may do it better. You can't make the argument "my class should outperform all others by a massive amount because I underperform in something else".

Chilly-McFreeze

Turelus wrote: »

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

Turelus wrote: »

It's not about it being the best DPS, it's about it being so much better it's becoming the only viable option.

If a class can pull 2k DPS more then that's not an issue, player skill will balance that out, however the sorcerer can will potentially 10k more? Whilst also having a shield in excess of 20k and the option to have pets doing damage as well.

Right now it's just doing too much in too many areas, it doesn't need nerfing below all the others, just some of its power knocked down a little to be close to the others.

Are the highest dps achieved by pet Sorcs or by non-pet mSorcs? If it's the first, than this should be no incentive to change a whole class' potential just bc of one of many build options. Then the pets should brought a bit in line. Especially, or exclusivly, familiar's pulse.

As I said, no need to nerf everything into the ground. ZOS would and should look at where the gaps are made, and tone them back.
The resistance to literally any change to sorcerers isn't a helpful one if people want to mitigate the damage of the nerfs when they come. It would be better to agree, find what would be acceptable without gutting the class.

I haven't said that I am against all changes. But afaik pet sorcs are performing better than non-pet sorcs and therefore ZOS should take a look at pets first before changing class skills that are used by every mSorc but hurts non-pets more than petSorcs.
Sorry if this is badly written, I'm a bit tired. But I believe you understand what I try to bring across. I'm not against changes or even nerfs. But like you said by yourself, start with the things that are responsible for the overperformance.

F7sus4 wrote: »

Cast+buff pet. Cast Blockade. Cast Liquid. Spam hard-cast Crystal Frags like standard Group Finder pug. Depending on external buffs - still 20-25k DPS.

Now achieve similar result on magNB with such ease. Thanks!

That's what I mean. When people talk about Sorcs are OP they usually refer to petSorcs. What about the non-petSorcs?

Dracindo

TheHsN wrote: »

Templar has self heal to dont die and they die very very very hardly...
DK is already hardest to kill class and had good DMG..(morrowind killed that i know)
NB: they have cloak and movement speed...and hugeeee BURST than all classes
Sorcerer has shield...

In a nutshell:

• Templars are hard to kill
• DK's are hardest class to kill
• NB's move fast... But wait, there's more! Highest burst damage!
• Sorcs have shields...

NB do have great burst, but it's kill or be killed. If a nightblade is unable to kill his target, he's dead (at end-game content).
And sorcs have shields. You make it sound like that's nothing, but it equals to "hard to kill". Maybe the sustain issues will change that, but as long as a sorc has good regens and sources, all they gotta do, is keep their shield up and never die. And with the remaining resources they still hit hard.

From my point of view, sorcs are like nightblades: Glasscannons. The only differences are:

• Sorcs can fight from a safe distance.
• Sorcs have shields.

TheHsN

Turelus wrote: »

TheHsN wrote: »

Turelus wrote: »

It's not about it being the best DPS, it's about it being so much better it's becoming the only viable option.

If a class can pull 2k DPS more then that's not an issue, player skill will balance that out, however the sorcerer can will potentially 10k more? Whilst also having a shield in excess of 20k and the option to have pets doing damage as well.

Right now it's just doing too much in too many areas, it doesn't need nerfing below all the others, just some of its power knocked down a little to be close to the others.

Can u make vMOL with sorc as TANK...
if u cant make it yes 10k more DPS is nothing...

Or can u heal vMOL with sorcerer if u cant 10K more DPS again it isnt anything...
This game is making mistakes about it...

Tank is tank
healar is healar
DPS is DPS

classes doesnt have their definations very well.. every class can be anything is wrong to my MMo ideas....

And they dont even need to touch SORC they need to tune up others intead op tuned down to sorc

If you can't tank as a Sorc, then that means sorc tanking needs buffing.

Remember the game is not built on "one class for each role" although some may do it better. You can't make the argument "my class should outperform all others by a massive amount because I underperform in something else".

unfortunatly game cant be built on everything can be everything as well as other one...:D...thats the problem... but one class or 2 class for each role can be done like all other MMOs doing... since 3.5 year this game cant be balanced ...:(:(:(thats because of that

TheHsN

Dracindo wrote: »

TheHsN wrote: »

Templar has self heal to dont die and they die very very very hardly...
DK is already hardest to kill class and had good DMG..(morrowind killed that i know)
NB: they have cloak and movement speed...and hugeeee BURST than all classes
Sorcerer has shield...

In a nutshell:

• Templars are hard to kill
• DK's are hardest class to kill
• NB's move fast... But wait, there's more! Highest burst damage!
• Sorcs have shields...

NB do have great burst, but it's kill or be killed. If a nightblade is unable to kill his target, he's dead (at end-game content).
And sorcs have shields. You make it sound like that's nothing, but it equals to "hard to kill". Maybe the sustain issues will change that, but as long as a sorc has good regens and sources, all they gotta do, is keep their shield up and never die. And with the remaining resources they still hit hard.

From my point of view, sorcs are like nightblades: Glasscannons. The only differences are:

• Sorcs can fight from a safe distance.
• Sorcs have shields.

it is al about PLAYERS... there are some players when im playing sorc...They cant even give me a DMG... there are some NB they kill me and i even barely see them:D...

in youtube... there are hundreds of videos ... Sorc killed by NB in a second or just a bit later fight starts...
and there are others exactly opposite... and there are some that they even cant each other and give up from the fight...it is more l2p issue than the balance now to me...in PVP perspective of course

Miswar

Maybe it is down to your own personal playing skills?

Most likely so since there is NO invinsible Sorc or any other classes. Not in PvP anyways.

A lot of pointless whining regarding this subject. Basically people complaining and want the sorc run naked and without shields so they can actually kill someone in Cyrodill.

Give me a break and no nerfs required regarding Sorcs.

Biro123

Hm, ok - so on the PTS,

NB's have had a buff to one of their damage abilities, sorcs have had a nerf to one of theirs.
Both have had a nerf to their sustain abilities
Sorcs have had a nerf to their survivability (pirate skelly) - quite a big nerf actually.

In addition, shields scale VERY well with max magica. The all-round sustain changes will affect the amount of max magica sorcs are running. Mine has taken a 3.5k drop to get the needed sustain (and I may still need more sustain), which equals significantly weaker shields.
CP changes have made frontloading many stars much, much more valuable than stacking one or two - so there will be a LOT of people doing 20% extra damage to shields.

That's 3 significant nerfs to the effectiveness of shields.

Just let it play out and see how it goes...

MCBIZZLE300

It's posts like this that trigger a nerf explosion. Other classes should be buffed to sorc standard. Please don't ruin my sorc!

Edziu

@Biro123 nerf with pirate skelly wasnt a nerf for sorc.....it was just fix to this set which was explioted on sorc shields without penalty

nerf to sorc crystal frag also was a bit nonsense because problem is not in this skill, buff to nb dark path also is useless because this is just small to weak skill wich will change nothing in nb dps, sorc will lost more dps by crystal frag dmg nerf than nb buff to dps by buff to this skill

sorc didnt get class nerf to sustain while nb class sustain skill was just screwed into not worth spent skillpoint

Aurie

Please don't encourage @ZOS to do yet another round with their nerf bat.

It would be nice to see some positive balancing rather than always negative.

Prospero_ESO

TheHsN wrote: »

Did u read my last sentences....PLS...read all first..

So you want to bring the NB on the same level as Sorc dmg wise ? Yes great idea and pls make it so that bone pirate set grants NB´s perma stealth. Sounds legit...

TheHsN wrote: »

and second, in PVP perspective you can only give that answer...
Templar has self heal to dont die and they die very very very hardly...

LOL honestly ? Yes but they don´t dish out a ton of damage while doing that........

TheHsN wrote: »

NB: they have cloak and movement speed...and hugeeee BURST than all classes

Soul assault, Poisons, Stealth problem fixed.

TheHsN

Prospero_ESO wrote: »

TheHsN wrote: »

Did u read my last sentences....PLS...read all first..

So you want to bring the NB on the same level as Sorc dmg wise ? Yes great idea and pls make it so that bone pirate set grants NB´s perma stealth. Sounds legit...

TheHsN wrote: »

and second, in PVP perspective you can only give that answer...
Templar has self heal to dont die and they die very very very hardly...

LOL honestly ? Yes but they don´t dish out a ton of damage while doing that........

TheHsN wrote: »

NB: they have cloak and movement speed...and hugeeee BURST than all classes

Soul assault, Poisons, Stealth problem fixed.

THEY DONT MAKE DAMAGE???!!!!OMG which game u play...

Dracindo

TheHsN wrote: »

Dracindo wrote: »

TheHsN wrote: »

Templar has self heal to dont die and they die very very very hardly...
DK is already hardest to kill class and had good DMG..(morrowind killed that i know)
NB: they have cloak and movement speed...and hugeeee BURST than all classes
Sorcerer has shield...

In a nutshell:

• Templars are hard to kill
• DK's are hardest class to kill
• NB's move fast... But wait, there's more! Highest burst damage!
• Sorcs have shields...

NB do have great burst, but it's kill or be killed. If a nightblade is unable to kill his target, he's dead (at end-game content).
And sorcs have shields. You make it sound like that's nothing, but it equals to "hard to kill". Maybe the sustain issues will change that, but as long as a sorc has good regens and sources, all they gotta do, is keep their shield up and never die. And with the remaining resources they still hit hard.

From my point of view, sorcs are like nightblades: Glasscannons. The only differences are:

• Sorcs can fight from a safe distance.
• Sorcs have shields.

it is al about PLAYERS... there are some players when im playing sorc...They cant even give me a DMG... there are some NB they kill me and i even barely see them:D...

in youtube... there are hundreds of videos ... Sorc killed by NB in a second or just a bit later fight starts...
and there are others exactly opposite... and there are some that they even cant each other and give up from the fight...it is more l2p issue than the balance now to me...in PVP perspective of course

Nightblade: Hero at Cyrodiil ganking, loser at everything else.
And your comment confirms this. From the moment you've joined the zergs at a keep/farm, it becomes harder for a nightblade to do his job.

In any case, I don't need the Sorcs to be nerfed. It's every other class that should be buffed, especially Nightblades.

Biro123

Edziu wrote: »

@Biro123 nerf with pirate skelly wasnt a nerf for sorc.....it was just fix to this set which was explioted on sorc shields without penalty

nerf to sorc crystal frag also was a bit nonsense because problem is not in this skill, buff to nb dark path also is useless because this is just small to weak skill wich will change nothing in nb dps, sorc will lost more dps by crystal frag dmg nerf than nb buff to dps by buff to this skill

sorc didnt get class nerf to sustain while nb class sustain skill was just screwed into not worth spent skillpoint

C'mon - you can't really believe that the type of nerf they made to Pirate Skelly wasn't directed at sorcs..? Frags nerf IS noticeable - at least for me in PVP, since I ususally use a no-spam heavy frag build.

Dark Path - useless, perhaps - but that's why they buff it, yes? People said sorc pets were useless when Zos announced their buffs - and now look at them. Volatile Familiar is the main reason sorc is over-performing in PVE.
Dark Path Should be doing equivalent dmg to liquid lightning imho.. Whether it does or not with this buff, I don't know.

And yes, Sorcs DID get a nerf to sustain - making it take longer to spam dark-exchange, reducing the 'burst recovery' ( causing a dps loss in PVE for those using it, and increasing interrupt chance in PVP).. Sustained recovery took a hit from Constitution nerfs. Unlike the NB sustain skill, dark exchange doesn't sustain itself. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that Dark Exchange isn't better than siphoning, but to say sorcs havn't had a sustain nerf is just incorrect.

IlCanis_LupuslI

The pproblem is that while nb movement speed and cloak are almost ridiculously easy to counter there are very limited options to counter shields. That's why there are so many sorcs out there. A friend of mine who played a sorc pretty much all the time just made a nb and was quite surprised not say it out shocked how weak the stamblade was in comparison. With a sorc if anything happens just reapply a nother shield as a stamblade.... Well unless you have some decent movement your screwed.

TheHsN

Mangeli200194 wrote: »

The pproblem is that while nb movement speed and cloak are almost ridiculously easy to counter there are very limited options to counter shields. That's why there are so many sorcs out there. A friend of mine who played a sorc pretty much all the time just made a nb and was quite surprised not say it out shocked how weak the stamblade was in comparison. With a sorc if anything happens just reapply a nother shield as a stamblade.... Well unless you have some decent movement your screwed.

3 year pls sorc then open nb and u are best in nb???!!!

Edziu

Biro123 wrote: »

Edziu wrote: »

@Biro123 nerf with pirate skelly wasnt a nerf for sorc.....it was just fix to this set which was explioted on sorc shields without penalty

nerf to sorc crystal frag also was a bit nonsense because problem is not in this skill, buff to nb dark path also is useless because this is just small to weak skill wich will change nothing in nb dps, sorc will lost more dps by crystal frag dmg nerf than nb buff to dps by buff to this skill

sorc didnt get class nerf to sustain while nb class sustain skill was just screwed into not worth spent skillpoint

C'mon - you can't really believe that the type of nerf they made to Pirate Skelly wasn't directed at sorcs..? Frags nerf IS noticeable - at least for me in PVP, since I ususally use a no-spam heavy frag build.

Dark Path - useless, perhaps - but that's why they buff it, yes? People said sorc pets were useless when Zos announced their buffs - and now look at them. Volatile Familiar is the main reason sorc is over-performing in PVE.
Dark Path Should be doing equivalent dmg to liquid lightning imho.. Whether it does or not with this buff, I don't know.

And yes, Sorcs DID get a nerf to sustain - making it take longer to spam dark-exchange, reducing the 'burst recovery' ( causing a dps loss in PVE for those using it, and increasing interrupt chance in PVP).. Sustained recovery took a hit from Constitution nerfs. Unlike the NB sustain skill, dark exchange doesn't sustain itself. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that Dark Exchange isn't better than siphoning, but to say sorcs havn't had a sustain nerf is just incorrect.

in pvp cast time increased by 0.2 sec to dark deal is nothing to at all mostly of those sorcs

path of darknes was buffed by 35% bonus damage as I good remember in last patch and this is still *** skill

and why pirate skelly should normal work it on shields? normally it is givinf you 30% damage reduction with penalty 15% less healing taken when every class feel this lesser healings while sorc have no penalty because he almost dont need any hela while his hields are up and those shields got this major protection for no penalty like other classes as I wrote feel so this is not nerf to sorc, this is fix to set which was broken and mostly shieldstacker(sorcs) was eploiting this bug like before with infernal guardian which was hitting into players in stealth