Why I do not find what's on the PTS fun and other stuff

redspecter23

Thank you for saying what ZOS needs to hear.

ZOS, you are so obsessed with nerfing until balance is achieved that you didn't stop to think whether or not it's actually a good idea to do so. You may eventually find true balance through nerfing but will enough of your player base still support you by that time.

I have always enjoyed this game for the character progression. When 3 years of progression is stripped away in the past 9 months of updates (including Morrowind) with no signs of the nerf train stopping, then someone that plays in order to progress their characters fractions of a percent at a time will not be happy to have nerfs in the 10% - 25% range tossed around in one update. Who knows what nerfs are still yet to come. Why bother progressing again if ZOS will just smack you down with the nerf bat again when you stray outside their own personal (and never stated) power level curve.

I wasn't aware I was playing the game wrong until this latest PTS cycle when I was told by ZOS that my sustain was far too powerful. I never really felt that way myself.

miteba

Awesome Post @Joy_Division !!! I would give 10 awesomes if i could

I, like all the people which are giving their opinion in the forum, dont like the way things are evolving but i will not quit too, because i still feel the game extremly attractive.

But i too admit that each day that passes, the decision to log is narrowing

I do not really understand how zenimax always makes decisions that are opposed to what the community wants. In 10 comments i only see 1 or 2 in which someone defends the Devs decisions... normal players, elite, role playing, min-maxers, youtubers, etc etc ... almost everybody is against the majority of changes ... and nobody from Zenimax has the skill to go public and explain the decisions... only some feeble and la palice comments and explanations!

There are bad opinions: SURE!
But there are a lot of players which put great effort to explain how things will work, or not work, via theorycrafting or through charts, numbers, comparisons from Live/PTS... or simply by playing and enjoying the game without making anymore rather than ... literally playing it! as the example given by Joy -> @MissBizz

Please open your eyes, everyone is telling:

Joy_Division wrote: »

ZoS Please Communicate to Us

Yirmeyahu

I give you an "A" for effort. I really do.

Unfortunately, several of us have already expressed all of it (in smaller chunks, across multiple posts, or even in chat during "ESO Live") and it has all, undeniably, fallen upon deaf ears. In fact, feedback has actually been used to "nerf" even more of the game over the past month, not bring about any form of "reversal" or "rethinking".

The ESO NWO is here and there is really nothing to be done about it. For the player(s), the choice is clear; eat or push the plate away. I am betting that the vast majority with choose to dine. Thus, in any way that would actually matter - such as numbers of copies sold or dollars in a bank account - ESO Morrowind will be a smashing success that only serves to "prove" that people saying things along the lines of this OP were just "wrong" all along.

It's truly sad. But, it simply... is.

miteba

Yirmeyahu wrote: »

I am betting that the vast majority with choose to dine.

Nicely said... and it is good to know that vast majority chooses to "dine", because if not we wouldnt have ESO as it is...
The problem is that you will dine a couple of times ... and then the decision to "push the plate away" will not be so hard to take

Bherdani

Well said; thank you @Joy_Division for a level-headed and fair appraisal of the concerns of the community

HatchetHaro

Holy ***.

I really couldn't have said it better myself. Kudos, OP. Pity I can't vote on all three of those kudos categories. I'll pick Awesome because you're awesome.

ZOS, seriously, just step back, take a look. Is this your vision? To disappoint the majority of your playerbase?

Take off your nostalgia blindfolds and step off your Morrowind hype train for a moment.

Is this your vision?

DragonBound

What was that about how the community is just toxic and do not like change? LOL!

Morgul667

Appreciate the constructive and instructive post, thanks

LtCrunch

Derra wrote: »

For me it feels like eso was originally developed by an entirely different team (atleast for classes, abilities and combat design, maybe also programmers - i mean why on earth did they start meddling with perfectly fine working gapclosers) that got kicked out some months after release.
After that we got the current crew that did not have the understanding of the original class design and the vision of the combat system and now try to shape the game in a way that they can handle and understand it.

It feels like that because it's exactly what happened. Losing Paul Sage, Nick Konkle and others happened right around when the business model changed. The game has been going downhill since then, IMO. I took a year and a half off when the Imperial City was on the PTS, and brought several guildies with me. Luckily for ZOS there just aren't really any good alternatives out there, at least not suited to our tastes. So we came back. I personally feel like ESO is still a great game despite ZOS, not because of them.

Don't get me wrong we've had some good changes since the business mode switch, but we've had a lot more bad, I think. Factions have been rendered meaningless and a very large chunk of their storylines and quests no longer make a single shred of sense with the introduction of 1T. Classes have lost much diversity and uniqueness. There's more or less one effective stamina build for top-end content that's shared across all classes.

The only thing keeping me here at this point is the fun combat systems and interesting mechanics (unfortunately the better you get the less of them you get to see). This update scares me because it could mark a turning point for me regarding how much I actually enjoy the combat in this game. Once that's gone I don't really have anything keeping me here except for maybe my buddies. Of course that makes the assumption that they will still have a reason to stay.

NightbladeMechanics

Now I'm sad.

I don't know how ZOS doesn't see these things coming.

10/10 post, Joy. ZOS really needs to listen.

Textual_Sphinx

Really well written post with great constructive feedback. I think this mirrors the sentiment of countless posts that can be found across the forums and matches my own experiences on the PTS. The changes to sustain are not fun. I can and will adapt to the changes by using heavy attacks builds but this style of gameplay is considerably less enjoyable than the fast-paced combat that I can utilise if I setup my character correctly and am properly supported by other group members.

DarcyMardin

Thanks for a terrific post.

I was so excited about Morrowind (having been a huge fan of the original). But after playing on the pts and experiencing the changes/nerfs, my excitement has waned. I've barely played at all for the past few days. I'm no elite player -- I still find vet dungeons a challenge. My floor hasn't been raised and the ceiling is far beyond my reach with the coming patch

FrancisCrawford

Great thread!

Perhaps we should consider what uniqueness ZoS seems to be trying to achieve, and see why it does or doesn't work.

Sorcerer

• Pets -- this actually works.
• Unpredictable magic -- Frags procs, self-willed pets. The unpredictability isn't deep enough to much matter, or for people to find it actively fun.
• Shock damage -- it's just damage, plus particle effects. Either you like the visuals or you don't.
• Speedy movement. Conceptually, this works, although it's antithetical to pets. Bugs are of course another matter.

So magicka sorcerers are a pet class, plus generic -- and currently strong -- damage. Stamina sorcerers have some movement speed to aid their otherwise highly generic stamina builds.

Dragonknight (magicka)

• DoTs -- the whole game is DoTs. There's nothing unique about the DK emphasis on DoTs.
• Tankiness -- I'll leave the discussion of that to others.
• Dragon and firebreathing visuals -- either you like those or you don't.
• Fire orientation -- it's just damage. What's more, since lightning heavy attacks are far superior to single-target ones, the fire orientation is weakened.

The allegedly unique style of magicka DK damage-dealing is actually shared by almost every other spec.

Dragonknight (stamina)
I can't even guess what's supposed to feel unique about this spec. (Tanking again is excepted.)

Nightblade (stamina)
This is a bursty assassin spec. That works, conceptually, in PvP and in the easiest parts of PvE. It's useless -- or at least bland and weak -- in anything like a boss fight. And that's pretty much it.

I just use my stamblade as a crafter and criminal, solely for Cloak and Concealed Weapon.

Nightblade (magicka)

This seems to be just a buff/curse/debuff spec, now that the sustain advantages have been removed. Problems with that approach include:

• The DoT aspect of that is a poor match for bursty assassin play.
• Every other spec in the game is also DoT-based.
• Stacking buffs is slow and tedious.
• The debuff (as opposed to DoT) part is vanishingly thin.

Templar (magicka)
This is obviously still meant to be a strong healer spec. Joy has posted at length why the fun has largely been removed from that. I concur.

On the damage side, I gather templars are supposed to be stand-your-ground kinds of characters. But that only works in this game for ranged characters, and templars' best and most unique class damage skill is melee-ranged. Oops.

Templar (stamina)
If there's a unique vision for this spec, I've never figured out what it is.

craftycarper73

what an awesome post. OP..

unfortunatley i doubt zos will even read it, if they do read it, they will completely ignore the concerns you have pointed out, the points many people have concerns about.

i myself have not completed vMSA, i was working my way through it slowly, when this next installment drops, i will give up on it, after reading what the op has put, if a somewhat seasoned vMSA player struggles, what hope for the players that are nowhere near there skill level? none is the answer.

Morrowind for me, even though i have thought about dumping the game and moving on, will just be a campaign type game, do the story, and thats about it, till the next dlc, or when tera online hits PS4, whichever comes first. One thing is for sure, as soon as another MMO hits the PS4 i will drop ESO like a hot potatoe, which is a shame as i am invested in the game, like a lot of others are.

Marlew

by far the best post in this forum i read about the PTS so far.

I can just agree with you!

Nothing more to say.

Cheers
M.

Joy_Division

Thanks for the kind words folks.

Many of you are right, I am repeating what has been said by a lot of other smart and dedicated people. I do think since a lot of these feelings are common in the community that is significant and it would be nice to hope that ZoS recognizes that. I just wanted to put together a lot of the key themes in one place and, as I said, since ZoS has giving me a lot of fond memories, I do believe they deserve a constructive explanation.

I wish ZoS could comprehend that just because we can say compete the new Halls of Fabrication trial, that does not mean it was fun to do.

Asmael

Do you remember when...

Wings were actually used on DKs in PvP?

Sap tanks were a thing?

Jabs was actually good enough in PvE?

Standard wasn't complete crap in PvP?

Igneous Shield was used for something else than Major Mending and some stamina?

Sun shield was used on more than just HP stackers?

Sorcerers could actually feel "mobile" instead of being stuck at the end of a Streak?

Stamina DKs could actually use Dragon Blood and get a proper heal by taking risks?

Magicka Nightblades had a reason to be picked because they could help with offhealing in trials & dungeons with Funnel health?

Stamina DKs still had fire abilities?

Death Stroke actually gave you a choice (stun or ult gen) regardless of whether you're stamina or magicka?

Dragonknights could literally fly over the battlefield with Take Flight?

-

There goes class identity.

Coilbox

Joy_Division wrote: »

Thanks for the kind words folks.

Many of you are right, I am repeating what has been said by a lot of other smart and dedicated people. I do think since a lot of these feelings are common in the community that is significant and it would be nice to hope that ZoS recognizes that. I just wanted to put together a lot of the key themes in one place and, as I said, since ZoS has giving me a lot of fond memories, I do believe they deserve a constructive explanation.

I wish ZoS could comprehend that just because we can say compete the new Halls of Fabrication trial, that does not mean it was fun to do.

Shame that such a very constructive explanation wont have a reply back from them. Would really like to see some communication and the community managers or devs more involved on talking with their customers... other than just ignore them and hide behind a silent wall.

Great post Joy, as always.

Cheers.

acw37162

I can't say thank you enough for taking the time and effort to write out your thoughts and concerns in such a manner.

It is impressive and actually makes me glad to come to forums and read content you produce, I don't always agree but I always learn something and respect you opinion and effort.

You echoed my thoughts on test sever vs live sever better then I could.

Test is/was not fun.

I prefer the live game with its faults to test server it is brutal IMO and drains my enjoyment of the game.

Also, Warden at least Magica Warden is a very underwhelming experience

Norakai

I totally agree with your post. Thank you for the time you spend on the pts and on this thread.

As it looks many people will stay in eso just like you described. less motivated and just for the memories. But one day will come when another good looking game releases and i am afraid that will be the moment eso collapses since there will be more and more people just playing and logging in because they used to but not for the FUN. and its the guys that stayed with eso for a long time zenimax should listen to. Eso has soooo many people who buy it, play it leave it. This patch wont hold em ingame any longer as before.

Sanctum74

Literally thousands of posts like this and they still are NOT listening to the community. I'm still going to play, but i will not get morrowind and am letting my eso+ run out. Just cant keep spending $250/year when they treat their customers like this. If they get their act together for the next patch i will gladly sub again and buy Morrowind, but i can no longer support them and their vision.

Weps

92 minutes of applause.

Marvelous post.

aeowulf

great post Joy. you have put down in words exactly what is in my head. I hope someone at ZOS will reply, but i fear it will be unlikely.

Nelson_Rebel

And still no chance of them listening,how soul crushing.

RoamingRiverElk

Extremely well-written, Joy_Division. Best post of the year.

I hope ZoS listens. To all of it.

Elsterchen

Thank you @Joy_Division, again you manage to express my thoughts and feelings much better then I could ever put them into words.

Please keep your feedback up and alive, its something I need to comfort my templar while feeling stoved up in the garage cupboard by ZOS with the sole ability to push intruders a little further away and *upcoming change!* ... ... wait for it... light my candle (nova) a little faster!

The thought of what will go on in this very forum and ESO live after 22.5. 2017 makes me wanna cringe and cry.

*Anyone has cookies, please? ... Oh... or icecream? ... *

Athrys5

Great post @Joy_Division that's crazy good and it summarizes all the thoughts of the community.
I hope @ZOS_GinaBruno , @ZOS_JessicaFolsom , @ZOS_RichLambert , @Wrobel , @ZOS_Finn , @ZOS_BrianWheeler read this and i hope people keep this post up as much as possible coz it's really constructive, everyone need to read this imo.

Kaliki

Couldn't agree more.
As with all your long posts @Joy_Division, thank you so much for saying what I couldn't put into words like this.

Rinmaethodain

So say we all, honestly i get the feeling that when ZOS makes changes all they look are numbers. Raw numbers detached from game, detached from content and detached from any constructive meaning related to context from these numbers.
Every change that is made, beside obvious in game mechanic implications have another side, social implication. Nerfing one class can lead players who play that class, at worst, to quit eso as they are no longer welcomed to groups. Other players can be excluded from groups if they wont roll the "buffed up" race.
Ive seen people get burned out as they try to keep up with game, sure you will say, "just chill out, let it go and move on" but ZOS is not nessesary making it easier.

Feanor

@Joy_Division

A very well written and insightful posting. Thank you for that. I just fear that ZOS is too committed to whatever they think "is best for the game" too really comprehend the issues. On a side note, I'd hate if you stopped writing stuff here.