Why I do not find what's on the PTS fun and other stuff

Mush55

Mate I am now a console pleb, I am glad I have done everything in this game and beaten it on my mageblade another class that has had the uniqueness and fun ripped out of it. Because from what I have read the casuals who Zos keep building this game for will not have a chance in hell..

Nice post and spot on but templars aren't the only ones to lose all they were in this expantion....................

Rainteal

ztyhurstub17_ESO wrote: »

The general sentiment that ESO is going to be ruined and what other MMOs are out there is very strong in all of my guilds as well, even the social one.

I can't figure out if it is arrogance or a vision of ESO I just don't understand, but if ZoS doesn't do something to head off the negative feelings going around the perceived feeling that the game is going down the drain will become reality regardless of whether it is deserved or not.

And this, I believe, is where all of the hyperbolic chest beating and ranting about the "death of the game" from previous patches is going to hurt us. Based on this community's history, ZoS knows that it just has to wait us out, and the outrage and anger will die down once the player-base settles into the new changes. The problem this time, is that it looks like real damage is being done to the game system and player satisfaction. We do not just have the hot-heads here running their mouths. Day after day I am reading this type of thoughtful and reasoned feedback from some of the most reasonable and even-tempered folks on the forums whom are actually testing and finding these disheartening results.

To your point @ztyhurstub17_ESO , I do not think that ZoS believes that they have to do anything from a PR perspective. I think that they may just be waiting us out, but in this case, it may truly be to the detriment of the game.

Adenoma

I don't get how ZOS fails to understand that this patch will only widen the differential between new and experienced players. In PvE the elite players will adapt and new players will be punished even more for their first attempts at vet content. In PvP it will be much of the same - experienced players will regear and adapt, but players learning combat mechanics are going to find themselves quickly out of resources.

I'm going to buy morrowind, but I think I'll be cancelling my ESO+. I've been playing for nearly two years and most of that as a subscriber. I feel like the only thing keeping me involved now are my friends and the fact that I've had such a positive history with this game's fast-paced combat system. If that changes, I'll find something else.

Tholian1

Adenoma wrote: »

I don't get how ZOS fails to understand that this patch will only widen the differential between new and experienced players. In PvE the elite players will adapt and new players will be punished even more for their first attempts at vet content. In PvP it will be much of the same - experienced players will regear and adapt, but players learning combat mechanics are going to find themselves quickly out of resources.

I'm going to buy morrowind, but I think I'll be cancelling my ESO+. I've been playing for nearly two years and most of that as a subscriber. I feel like the only thing keeping me involved now are my friends and the fact that I've had such a positive history with this game's fast-paced combat system. If that changes, I'll find something else.

Because you are forgetting about PVP battlegrounds. They had to change combat so the new players and the experienced players were brought closer together. Floor meets ceiling. Unfortunately, this will only apply to the battleground arena environment and have the opposite effect in PvE, IMO.

Just more reasons why PvE and PvP (large scale and small) need to be completely separated.

Rohamad_Ali

Tholian1 wrote: »

show previous quotes

Adenoma wrote: »

I don't get how ZOS fails to understand that this patch will only widen the differential between new and experienced players. In PvE the elite players will adapt and new players will be punished even more for their first attempts at vet content. In PvP it will be much of the same - experienced players will regear and adapt, but players learning combat mechanics are going to find themselves quickly out of resources.

I'm going to buy morrowind, but I think I'll be cancelling my ESO+. I've been playing for nearly two years and most of that as a subscriber. I feel like the only thing keeping me involved now are my friends and the fact that I've had such a positive history with this game's fast-paced combat system. If that changes, I'll find something else.

Because you are forgetting about PVP battlegrounds. They had to change combat so the new players and the experienced players were brought closer together. Floor meets ceiling. Unfortunately, this will only apply to the battleground arena environment and have the opposite effect in PvE, IMO.

Just more reasons why PvE and PvP (large scale and small) need to be completely separated.

From all my testing , the Battlegrounds will show the biggest gap between base players and elites in this new system . Premades will wipe the floors with pugs and the grouping tool has no real way to differentiate good and average players . I imagine the Battlefield threads will be lit with irritated pugs for months . This system only rewards the most skilled players and has little to no buffer for less skilled .

mandricus

Best post ever. Well done Joy, I subscribe every single word of your post, and I've read it all, even the spoilers.
The sum of it is:
- Class identities gone. All flatten on abilities available to everyone. What's the point of chosing a class if 9 out of 10 abilities for an Healer or a Tank will be exactly the same for every class? It is already this way for all stam DD and it is not fun, with this new patch it will be even worse
- instead of nerfing the damage, they are going to nerf resources. Real problem, wrong solution, at least from a PvE point of view
- Probably this is inevitable in order to achieve a viable combat system for Battlegrounds. Which bring us back at the usual point: Balancing PvP and PvE at the same time it's almost a mission impossible. Most of the times, you fix one side and screw the other.
- infinite sustain? Try to run on live any Vet DLC dungeon as an healer without shards and Orbs, and you will see how the DDs, being out of resources most of the time, will start begging you for orbs / drain / shards / repentance, and the eventually will kick you out. Pve wise, resources are not an issue only in well organized group. Which is perfectly fine.
That is what teamwork is all about, in the end.
I'm giving my last shots at VMa with my Magplar, as I think I won't be able to do it anymore once this patch hits the Live. At that point, not sure I will have the will to continue to play this game.

Derra

tinbromide wrote: »

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Derra wrote: »

For me it feels like eso was originally developed by an entirely different team (atleast for classes, abilities and combat design, maybe also programmers - i mean why on earth did they start meddling with perfectly fine working gapclosers) that got kicked out some months after release.
After that we got the current crew that did not have the understanding of the original class design and the vision of the combat system and now try to shape the game in a way that they can handle and understand it.

Nobody came out and said why these changes were being made, they hinted at "sustain" and "Power creep", but were too afraid to come out and say "We made these changes for a new pay-for-access game mode". All these changes only make sense when you take small team arena fighting into account. Sustain nerfs? Prevents regen matches where both sides just heal and wail on each other. Healing/Mending Nerfs? Prevents a tankplar or unkillable DK build from grabbing the flag and just sitting with it. Stealth damage Nerfs? Prevents 1 shot wipes where a team of 4x gankblades wipe the arena before it gets started. Reliance on heavy attacks? Makes newbies feel more "epic" when you're waddling around, swinging great swords at each other. Set nerfs? Again, look to the previous tweaks. No more unkillable builds, no more one shot wipes, quick battles in the new pay-for-access game mode.

Negative impact on Cyro and PvE was secondary. They'll probably correct for those when morrowind stops selling well.

The problem with that is:
BGs have no mmr and are going to be a pugstompfest.

Nobody apart from the elite is gonna find bgs fun in the long run in their current state.

Tholian1

Rohamad_Ali wrote: »

show previous quotes

Tholian1 wrote: »

Adenoma wrote: »

I don't get how ZOS fails to understand that this patch will only widen the differential between new and experienced players. In PvE the elite players will adapt and new players will be punished even more for their first attempts at vet content. In PvP it will be much of the same - experienced players will regear and adapt, but players learning combat mechanics are going to find themselves quickly out of resources.

I'm going to buy morrowind, but I think I'll be cancelling my ESO+. I've been playing for nearly two years and most of that as a subscriber. I feel like the only thing keeping me involved now are my friends and the fact that I've had such a positive history with this game's fast-paced combat system. If that changes, I'll find something else.

Because you are forgetting about PVP battlegrounds. They had to change combat so the new players and the experienced players were brought closer together. Floor meets ceiling. Unfortunately, this will only apply to the battleground arena environment and have the opposite effect in PvE, IMO.

Just more reasons why PvE and PvP (large scale and small) need to be completely separated.

From all my testing , the Battlegrounds will show the biggest gap between base players and elites in this new system . Premades will wipe the floors with pugs and the grouping tool has no real way to differentiate good and average players . I imagine the Battlefield threads will be lit with irritated pugs for months . This system only rewards the most skilled players and has little to no buffer for less skilled .

Experience will always win out over the inexperienced. But the new players aren't going to be scaled, attribute wise, to be closer to high level players?

mandricus

Derra wrote: »

For me it feels like eso was originally developed by an entirely different team (atleast for classes, abilities and combat design, maybe also programmers - i mean why on earth did they start meddling with perfectly fine working gapclosers) that got kicked out some months after release.
After that we got the current crew that did not have the understanding of the original class design and the vision of the combat system and now try to shape the game in a way that they can handle and understand it.

100% agree. I've the same exact feeling. Looks like They are just messing around with something they do not completely understand.

Lucky28

Rainteal wrote: »

show previous quotes

ztyhurstub17_ESO wrote: »

The general sentiment that ESO is going to be ruined and what other MMOs are out there is very strong in all of my guilds as well, even the social one.

I can't figure out if it is arrogance or a vision of ESO I just don't understand, but if ZoS doesn't do something to head off the negative feelings going around the perceived feeling that the game is going down the drain will become reality regardless of whether it is deserved or not.

And this, I believe, is where all of the hyperbolic chest beating and ranting about the "death of the game" from previous patches is going to hurt us. Based on this community's history, ZoS knows that it just has to wait us out, and the outrage and anger will die down once the player-base settles into the new changes. The problem this time, is that it looks like real damage is being done to the game system and player satisfaction. We do not just have the hot-heads here running their mouths. Day after day I am reading this type of thoughtful and reasoned feedback from some of the most reasonable and even-tempered folks on the forums whom are actually testing and finding these disheartening results.

To your point @ztyhurstub17_ESO , I do not think that ZoS believes that they have to do anything from a PR perspective. I think that they may just be waiting us out, but in this case, it may truly be to the detriment of the game.

even that's not really true, because what was being said is exactly what happened here with Morrowind they did not think or do not have an understanding of what the changes will mean on a larger scale ZOS keeps making the same mistakes over and over again and people get pissed seeing it happen repeatedly.

but Morrowind is just bad. it seems ZOS was betting on battlegrounds to bring the game back up, but they screwed over every other aspect of this game in the process.

HugeMuffin

Derra wrote: »

show previous quotes

tinbromide wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

For me it feels like eso was originally developed by an entirely different team (atleast for classes, abilities and combat design, maybe also programmers - i mean why on earth did they start meddling with perfectly fine working gapclosers) that got kicked out some months after release.
After that we got the current crew that did not have the understanding of the original class design and the vision of the combat system and now try to shape the game in a way that they can handle and understand it.

Nobody came out and said why these changes were being made, they hinted at "sustain" and "Power creep", but were too afraid to come out and say "We made these changes for a new pay-for-access game mode". All these changes only make sense when you take small team arena fighting into account. Sustain nerfs? Prevents regen matches where both sides just heal and wail on each other. Healing/Mending Nerfs? Prevents a tankplar or unkillable DK build from grabbing the flag and just sitting with it. Stealth damage Nerfs? Prevents 1 shot wipes where a team of 4x gankblades wipe the arena before it gets started. Reliance on heavy attacks? Makes newbies feel more "epic" when you're waddling around, swinging great swords at each other. Set nerfs? Again, look to the previous tweaks. No more unkillable builds, no more one shot wipes, quick battles in the new pay-for-access game mode.

Negative impact on Cyro and PvE was secondary. They'll probably correct for those when morrowind stops selling well.

The problem with that is:
BGs have no mmr and are going to be a pugstompfest.

Nobody apart from the elite is gonna find bgs fun in the long run in their current state.

At this point, I have leveled and specced a magsorc, geared my DK for tanking, and will let the community's salt flavor my popcorn. I, and everyone else on this forum, tried to take the lit matches away from zeni, but they insist on standing waist deep in gasoline and letting this thing drop.

I've only played for 2 years (joined after TU), but I like to think that I've endured enough zeni changes to recognize a really bad one when I see it.

Here's to perhaps the most "interesting" 6 months since release!

NBrookus

Teuton67 wrote: »

This patch is what I have always feared would happen to this game. I am a PvE player but always thought ESO had done PvP right in that it was a large scale fight where individual characters could not influence the fight too much. The thing I feared was that at some point, ESO would start making class balance changes around small scale PvP. Small scale PvP demands a much higher level of homogenization across the classes to be balanced and fair. Enter the 4v4v4 battlegrounds. I believe this is the direction ESO is going. It's time to start looking for the next PvE game.

Actually, PvP is going in the opposite direction. It used to be that classes and players could fill unique rolls. Now the only questions are, do you run destro, negate or healing springs?

Small scale PvP requires much less homogenization and closer teamwork.

Joy_Division wrote: »

I wish this game to be fun to play again.

<insert cheesy applause meme>

The entire development team needs to get together and read this aloud. But they won't.

I abandoned my "OP" sorcs and started playing magDK in the darkest days, but loved the playstyle despite how gimped the class was. We got one decent patch. One. Now we are gimped even further on PTS and stripped of our uniqueness.

I'm not quitting just yet, but my desire to log in and play has plummeted, and that's mostly for the people, not the game.

pattyLtd

Thank you.
You are good at saying things in a way everyone understands it even me hehe.

I agree its not realistic to expect them to throw away months of research but maybe they could postpone a few of the most impacting class changes and decide if they are still required in future updates (like the cfrags nerf )

Changes can be needed for all kinds of reasons but a videogame is supposed to be fun instead of annoying or even frustrating but i guess fun is relative maybe some people do look forward to the changes.

We'll see maybe 2018 is going to be great again lol.

Rohamad_Ali

Tholian1 wrote: »

show previous quotes

Rohamad_Ali wrote: »

Tholian1 wrote: »

Adenoma wrote: »

I don't get how ZOS fails to understand that this patch will only widen the differential between new and experienced players. In PvE the elite players will adapt and new players will be punished even more for their first attempts at vet content. In PvP it will be much of the same - experienced players will regear and adapt, but players learning combat mechanics are going to find themselves quickly out of resources.

I'm going to buy morrowind, but I think I'll be cancelling my ESO+. I've been playing for nearly two years and most of that as a subscriber. I feel like the only thing keeping me involved now are my friends and the fact that I've had such a positive history with this game's fast-paced combat system. If that changes, I'll find something else.

Because you are forgetting about PVP battlegrounds. They had to change combat so the new players and the experienced players were brought closer together. Floor meets ceiling. Unfortunately, this will only apply to the battleground arena environment and have the opposite effect in PvE, IMO.

Just more reasons why PvE and PvP (large scale and small) need to be completely separated.

From all my testing , the Battlegrounds will show the biggest gap between base players and elites in this new system . Premades will wipe the floors with pugs and the grouping tool has no real way to differentiate good and average players . I imagine the Battlefield threads will be lit with irritated pugs for months . This system only rewards the most skilled players and has little to no buffer for less skilled .

Experience will always win out over the inexperienced. But the new players aren't going to be scaled, attribute wise, to be closer to high level players?

Attribute scaling makes little difference in PVP where gear is over all and knowledge of abilities that compliments gear is essential . For instance , you can give a pug the same health , stamina and majica but it's not going to make a difference if he half the knowledge of a pro player to sustaine them . Lower level players that get scaled have less passives unlocked that compliment damage and resource returns and scaling does not address this .

Darlgon

@Joy_Division

I have to admit. I started reading your post, expecting to hit the report button about it being a violation of the NDA. You did very well in staying on gameplay. And you hit points in your post that I usually dont, the "fun" factor. I also am worried about the fun factor being gone. Your post pretty well summarizes, in a nicer way than most, the bulk of the emotional reactions to the class changes with Update 14, which just happens to drop with Morrowind.

Well done. Worth one of my rarely granted Awesomes.

Ishammael

I haven't logged on in several months now.

@Joy_Division has pretty well summarized my thoughts in this thread.

Class identity is gone: wings, streak, cloak, BoL.

Homogenized buffs: the major/minor system was a huge mistake.

Power stolen from class skills and wrapped into CPs

Two straight years of nerfs to the mDK, both skills and mechanics.

Absolute table scraps of content added to Cyrodiil in three years -- the most interesting zone and gameplay in the entire game.

WTB to buy 1.5 with bug fixes and balance. Need I say more?

Sallington

Fire Wrobel.
Hire Joy_Division.
?
Profit.

Morimizo

Wonderful post as usual, @Joy_Division , especially this great paragraph:

"Nerfs are not fun.

There was a time I looked forward to patch notes. It was like Christmas. We’d get up early, mashing our F5 buttons eagerly anticipating reading them; remember the whole “Natch Potes” meme? Now I just dread looking at these because it’s always the same thing: what has been nerfed, what class-defining feature has been taken away, and, oh, Healing Ritual is still a poor skill. Character regression is a difficult pill to swallow in a game oriented to progress / advancement and the loss of class distinctness brings us that much closer to homogenization."

What I don't understand about how the CP system affects PvE, is why are the NPC's confined to CP160? Wouldn't it balance in a single blow if all NPC's were 600, or whatever the max will be? I know this makes it more challenging for players below the cap, but as the gap is closed, the difficulty should be just about right. No need for constant (and diverse) nerfs.

The removal of unique abilities for each class, though, that is the real problem, and the only way to fix that is for ZOS to commit to this strategy again: make every class be as unique as possible, even if that means there are some OP abilities.

technohic

Rohamad_Ali wrote: »

show previous quotes

Tholian1 wrote: »

Adenoma wrote: »

I don't get how ZOS fails to understand that this patch will only widen the differential between new and experienced players. In PvE the elite players will adapt and new players will be punished even more for their first attempts at vet content. In PvP it will be much of the same - experienced players will regear and adapt, but players learning combat mechanics are going to find themselves quickly out of resources.

I'm going to buy morrowind, but I think I'll be cancelling my ESO+. I've been playing for nearly two years and most of that as a subscriber. I feel like the only thing keeping me involved now are my friends and the fact that I've had such a positive history with this game's fast-paced combat system. If that changes, I'll find something else.

Because you are forgetting about PVP battlegrounds. They had to change combat so the new players and the experienced players were brought closer together. Floor meets ceiling. Unfortunately, this will only apply to the battleground arena environment and have the opposite effect in PvE, IMO.

Just more reasons why PvE and PvP (large scale and small) need to be completely separated.

From all my testing , the Battlegrounds will show the biggest gap between base players and elites in this new system . Premades will wipe the floors with pugs and the grouping tool has no real way to differentiate good and average players . I imagine the Battlefield threads will be lit with irritated pugs for months . This system only rewards the most skilled players and has little to no buffer for less skilled .

It's pretty much every small scale PvP having MMO ever.

Brace yourselves for "premades are ruining PvP" and the smaller scale, the more the better players stand out.

Akimbro

ZoS: We have heard your concerns and have decided to continue ignoring them.

Koensol

Tholian1 wrote: »

show previous quotes

Adenoma wrote: »

I don't get how ZOS fails to understand that this patch will only widen the differential between new and experienced players. In PvE the elite players will adapt and new players will be punished even more for their first attempts at vet content. In PvP it will be much of the same - experienced players will regear and adapt, but players learning combat mechanics are going to find themselves quickly out of resources.

I'm going to buy morrowind, but I think I'll be cancelling my ESO+. I've been playing for nearly two years and most of that as a subscriber. I feel like the only thing keeping me involved now are my friends and the fact that I've had such a positive history with this game's fast-paced combat system. If that changes, I'll find something else.

Because you are forgetting about PVP battlegrounds. They had to change combat so the new players and the experienced players were brought closer together. Floor meets ceiling. Unfortunately, this will only apply to the battleground arena environment and have the opposite effect in PvE, IMO.

Just more reasons why PvE and PvP (large scale and small) need to be completely separated.

If anything the ceiling will only become higher, while the floor becomes lower. Sustain and doing any reasonable dps has just become a lot harder. How this brings floor and ceiling closer together I fail to see. Trust me GF will become even worse after 3.0.

Nebthet78

SilentRaven1972 wrote: »

The launch of The Elder Scrolls Online: Morrowind is just a few weeks away, and today, we're happy to announce that PC and Mac players who purchase the Digital Upgrade version of ESO: Morrowind will have the option to begin their adventures in Vvardenfell a little early on Monday, May 22! This means you'll be able to play the full game on the live megaservers beginning on May 22 and will retain all progression when the game officially launches in June.

Someone just copy/pasted this to me. Looks like hope for changes may be gone.

How can someone who prepurchased the physical CE editions of Morrowind even be able to play in advance if the game itsself doesn't ship until June 6th??

Tholian1

Koensol wrote: »

show previous quotes

Tholian1 wrote: »

Adenoma wrote: »

I don't get how ZOS fails to understand that this patch will only widen the differential between new and experienced players. In PvE the elite players will adapt and new players will be punished even more for their first attempts at vet content. In PvP it will be much of the same - experienced players will regear and adapt, but players learning combat mechanics are going to find themselves quickly out of resources.

I'm going to buy morrowind, but I think I'll be cancelling my ESO+. I've been playing for nearly two years and most of that as a subscriber. I feel like the only thing keeping me involved now are my friends and the fact that I've had such a positive history with this game's fast-paced combat system. If that changes, I'll find something else.

Because you are forgetting about PVP battlegrounds. They had to change combat so the new players and the experienced players were brought closer together. Floor meets ceiling. Unfortunately, this will only apply to the battleground arena environment and have the opposite effect in PvE, IMO.

Just more reasons why PvE and PvP (large scale and small) need to be completely separated.

If anything the ceiling will only become higher, while the floor becomes lower. Sustain and doing any reasonable dps has just become a lot harder. How this brings floor and ceiling closer together I fail to see. Trust me GF will become even worse after 3.0.

I was thinking more about the small scale PvP combat where everyone is basically forced to use heavy weapon attacks primarily and CPs are disabled.

NukeAllTheThings

Nebthet78 wrote: »

show previous quotes

SilentRaven1972 wrote: »

The launch of The Elder Scrolls Online: Morrowind is just a few weeks away, and today, we're happy to announce that PC and Mac players who purchase the Digital Upgrade version of ESO: Morrowind will have the option to begin their adventures in Vvardenfell a little early on Monday, May 22! This means you'll be able to play the full game on the live megaservers beginning on May 22 and will retain all progression when the game officially launches in June.

Someone just copy/pasted this to me. Looks like hope for changes may be gone.

How can someone who prepurchased the physical CE editions of Morrowind even be able to play in advance if the game itsself doesn't ship until June 6th??

Dorrino

LiquidPony wrote: »

I was "OK" with the changes until I ported into Maelstrom on PTS.

Ohhhhh boy.

For my stamina nightblade, Maelstrom is a fast-paced, thrilling, dodge-rolling blast on Live. I do not have infinite sustain, because I play Khajiit. Most of my deaths, on Live, are the result of running out of stamina (or lag spikes). I have to judiciously mix heavy attacks to sustain. I have to limit dodge-rolls. I have to Vigor at the right time. It's fun. It's fast. It's well-balanced and exciting.

Just finished vmsa on pts on my Khajiit stamina nightblade:)

Man, i haven't had this fun in vmsa since way back when it was released.

Not a single time i was out of stamina. I was close a couple of times, but pulling through that heavy attack, while avoiding usual mael damage was great fun.

Died a bunch of times because the last time i did it was more than 10 month ago, but general feel of Mael was unexpectedly refreshing and very much fun. All death were purely because i messed up mechanics i managed to forget:)

Used usual pve trial dps build on a pts template. Swapped 1 wpd glyph to stam recovery and another wpd glyph to reduce stam costs. War Machine set is so perfect for stamnb maelstrom, because you can line it up with burst phases.

LiquidPony wrote: »

On PTS, it sucks. I don't know how else to put it. It's just awful. I walk around slowly while charging heavy attacks, afraid of dodge-rolling or using abilities because I won't have enough stamina to use the (nerfed, increased cost) Vigor (and of course the "heal" from the now-crippled Leeching Strikes does nothing useful for players above level 10).

Weird. I had ~80% uptime of vigor on me throughout the whole vmsa. Didn't notice any problems with it.

Again, please get me right, i usually was at 15-60% of stam. But never felt truly out of it.

To me it felt like being sometimes low on stam added an additional layer of fun to the fights.

Koensol

Tholian1 wrote: »

show previous quotes

Koensol wrote: »

Tholian1 wrote: »

Adenoma wrote: »

I don't get how ZOS fails to understand that this patch will only widen the differential between new and experienced players. In PvE the elite players will adapt and new players will be punished even more for their first attempts at vet content. In PvP it will be much of the same - experienced players will regear and adapt, but players learning combat mechanics are going to find themselves quickly out of resources.

I'm going to buy morrowind, but I think I'll be cancelling my ESO+. I've been playing for nearly two years and most of that as a subscriber. I feel like the only thing keeping me involved now are my friends and the fact that I've had such a positive history with this game's fast-paced combat system. If that changes, I'll find something else.

Because you are forgetting about PVP battlegrounds. They had to change combat so the new players and the experienced players were brought closer together. Floor meets ceiling. Unfortunately, this will only apply to the battleground arena environment and have the opposite effect in PvE, IMO.

Just more reasons why PvE and PvP (large scale and small) need to be completely separated.

If anything the ceiling will only become higher, while the floor becomes lower. Sustain and doing any reasonable dps has just become a lot harder. How this brings floor and ceiling closer together I fail to see. Trust me GF will become even worse after 3.0.

I was thinking more about the small scale PvP combat where everyone is basically forced to use heavy weapon attacks primarily and CPs are disabled.

I still don't think that will change anything. Fact of the matter is that chances to screw up have been greatly increased. Blindly blow your burst on a blocking target and, like you said, you are stuck heavy attacking for 10 seconds. There is just less room for errors and the better player will eventually learn to adapt to this change of pace. The new players and those who simply are not very good will struggle even more than before on doing anything of significance in PvP.

Uriel_Nocturne

Never mind...

MaxwellC

Great post @Joy_Division
That's the problem with the current direction, instead of balancing the CP system and even armor sets ZOS has decided to balance class and armor skills around CP and armor sets but more so CP. I stand adamant when I state that the class changes to any class is unjustified and I refuse to yield on that opinion. People who defend the current changes as if they're a(n) harbinger of a foreseeable balanced future... well you will be in for a rude awakening when this goes live.

@Joy_Division I also can relate to that class feeling like a husk, I first started playing this game when my mate let me try out his newly created character which was a Dragon Knight (he later went to nightblade). I felt the berserk-er in its heart, that feeling where the more attackers come the stronger and more ferocious I will become, type of feeling. After all these changes the class is slowly becoming like every other class and if this trend continues I doubt there will be a distinctive line separating what class is what.

WldKarde

Very well said @Joy_Division

Thank you for taking the time to put into a very well thought out post what many of us are feeling.

I really hope ZOS takes your feedback to heart.

Blackfyre20

Great post. Remember when nightblades made pretty great healers? They couldn't contribute resources to the group like templars but they contributed DPS. Then everything that made them good healers got taken away and now templars are being nerfed in order to make other classes viable healers.

It'll never happen but soft caps would fix sooo many issues in the game. Soft caps makes the game more about your class and the decisions you make in combat, and less about your gear and stats. It would narrow the gap between the floor and ceiling. It would stop this power creep which leads to continuous nerfs. It would allow for a CP system (although somewhat reworked) that allows for meaningful end game progression without creating massive imbalance and power creep. It would make balancing abilities and sets easier because you don't have to balance with the 50k magicka magsorc or 60k health blazeplar in mind.

Another thing that really makes games not fun is when they don't work. There are entirely too many skills, sets, and mechanics that are broken and have been broken for a very long time (read >1 year). I'm not talking broken as in OP, I'm talking broken as in not working as intended. Streak bug, gap closers (although at least addressed and improved), item sets that proc when they're not supposed to, potion speed glyphs, etc... And many of these are well documented issues that ZOS does not acknowledge, or acknowledges and then seems to forget or just not care. If bug fixes and minor balance tweaks were implemented as often as new crown store items got shelled out, we might just have a more fun game which doesn't need a complete overhaul every 6 months.