Skill Gap Too High for New Players in PVP?

Lord_Hev

Vanzen wrote: »

When one talks about big pvp guilds, is one refering to those ridiculous trains blobing together that dont do *** xept spamming destro ulti ...

Because if that takes skills and learning ....

Am eager to meet these in group of only 4 in BG.


ZOS needs to implement a ranking system in BG, or many casuals wont come back there after a few humiliating sessions.

That sounds like a certain DC oceanic guild that just stacks 14 heavy armor purge-bots while the magic sorcs stack negates and single-target dmg pugs down 14v1 at a time. They don't really do much when met with an equal sized group with remote organization, except take forever to kill.


I'm eager to meet their 4 man in BG as well.

Ilpagliaccio

Lord_Hev wrote: »

Vanzen wrote: »

When one talks about big pvp guilds, is one refering to those ridiculous trains blobing together that dont do *** xept spamming destro ulti ...

Because if that takes skills and learning ....

Am eager to meet these in group of only 4 in BG.


ZOS needs to implement a ranking system in BG, or many casuals wont come back there after a few humiliating sessions.

That sounds like a certain DC oceanic guild that just stacks 14 heavy armor purge-bots while the magic sorcs stack negates and single-target dmg pugs down 14v1 at a time. They don't really do much when met with an equal sized group with remote organization, except take forever to kill.


I'm eager to meet their 4 man in BG as well.

We talking about the Oceanic EG group that runs 8+ purifying light and 3+ tumorscale ransack bots if you rustle their jim jams? I remember when that group tried to compete during NA primetime but never came back after a few humiliating sessions. Brandon South-Ga didnt train them well enough, I guess. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Biro123

PVP in this game has a MASSIVE learning curve.

I've played other MMO's - but none where you have to aim at your opponent, and have to actively defend (block/dodge) as opposed to them being just passive % chances. And without mastering these, the TTK is obscenely low.

When I started playing about a year ago - I levelled up my first character(magsorc) half in quests and half in BWB.. Although I had a lot of fun in BWB - I died a lot, and I mean a lot. Fights were over in 1 second, with an awful lot of minutes running/sneaking inbetween them. Even after hours and hours of BWB playtime, I'd still had only seconds of actual combat experience which didn't consist of pew-pewing in a zerg. It took a LONG time to learn to survive.

I do remember my first 1v1 that I won - it was VERY obvious that compared to all other fights that I'd had, this guy was just as clueless as me... which was a clear indication to me that the majority of people in BWB were not actually new players..

Got to around level 30, and came to the conclusion that (like many other MMO's) to solo successfully you gotta be a ganker (since that's where a lot of my deaths were) - So re-rolled a stamblade.. Was still no better. I still sucked... But persevered because I love PVP.. I was determined to git gud. Finally got him to 50..

But then - a friend started playing who joined an alliance who PVP's on another faction - so I switched to join them - rolled a new toon - magsorc again, back to what I was originally interested in, and levelled through to 50 - mostly in BWB and IC.. ofc it turned out I'd mistakenly picked the wrong class so switched to stamsorc.. But I was eventually leanring to play by the time I hit 50 and Azura... Still had a Loong way to go, but man.... it took me 2 and a half full toons levelling through BWB to get there.

Joining PVP is VERY tough when everyone else already knows how to play, is higher level/cp, and has bis gear... The biggest challenge is simply staying alive long enough to learn.

I do think Duels and BG's will help with that simply because they involve more actual combat and less riding around.. :-)

TheBonesXXX

I think the game has been dumbed down, so there is little to no curve.

Siege Warfare is dead in replace of "bomb" squads, 1 v X is relative to a handful of classes... its basic.

Its not hard to pull any of that off to anyone who can just watch and play the game over a month. Its not incredibly difficult to do. There are no new builds and tactics.. under the moon and sun, just a repackaged version of the same stuff.

Zander98

At the end of the day the culture of the existing PVP community creates it's own future.
Early in the game, when many had more energy and time to invest, the PVP community was more welcoming, educating and there were plenty of "training" guilds cyro population was steady and new players found it easier to make that first step up the learning curve.

As the community becomes more and more insular, as there becomes the elite and knowledgeless pugs without many players in between, as the elite players become more and more protective of what knowledge they hold....
Then that will be the future of Cyro.

People say there should be a better tutorial, etc. That is short sighted. In any MMO the state of PVP is a direct response to the prevailing culture.
You could list reasons many good players, streamers, guilds have left the game. I'm not into laying blame. Just looking at the current picture.
Much of what is happening in cyro is what we have created.

THEDKEXPERIENCE

SneaK wrote: »

THEDKEXPERIENCE wrote: »

vamp_emily wrote: »

I think a lot of players wait to PvP a little too late in the game. They should start out in a low level campaign. This will allow them to learn PvP before they go to a Vet campaign and get proc'd or one shot.

A good way to get players HOOKED or more coming to PvP is having events. Maybe take a group of new players around getting skyshards and books, or take a group to IC.

I've held a few events and players really have fun in IC and PvP, some players just need to hold hands with someone to get started.

I went to vet PVP on day 1 of console at level 10. I've never set foot in non-vet PVP. Despite taking a ton of lumps in year one the knowledge I aquired in the first year was invaluable.

I would actually argue that avoiding the non vet servers and just jumping in with a true level 10 would be the best way to learn.

You missed out. I leveled 7 characters from 10-50 in BwB. It was some of the most fun PvP I ever had. Vet camps for newer players is way worse than BwB. The reasoning is related to what Satiar is talking about too, in BwB there are a ton of random groups all over zone chat. Greatest place to learn the works of Cyro.

For what it's worth I had a great time during the Wild West of year 1 on console. I'm also a weirdo who used to play Tiger Woods golf without a green grid.

To be honest, aside from cases where it was "PC TRANSFER INCOMING ... RUN!!!!" it was a pretty fun environment. I didn't actually ever feel incapable until I got to about VR5, which was about when most of the players who can play 40 hours a week got to VR14. Those few months were pretty awful.

SneaK

THEDKEXPERIENCE wrote: »

SneaK wrote: »

THEDKEXPERIENCE wrote: »

vamp_emily wrote: »

I think a lot of players wait to PvP a little too late in the game. They should start out in a low level campaign. This will allow them to learn PvP before they go to a Vet campaign and get proc'd or one shot.

A good way to get players HOOKED or more coming to PvP is having events. Maybe take a group of new players around getting skyshards and books, or take a group to IC.

I've held a few events and players really have fun in IC and PvP, some players just need to hold hands with someone to get started.

I went to vet PVP on day 1 of console at level 10. I've never set foot in non-vet PVP. Despite taking a ton of lumps in year one the knowledge I aquired in the first year was invaluable.

I would actually argue that avoiding the non vet servers and just jumping in with a true level 10 would be the best way to learn.

You missed out. I leveled 7 characters from 10-50 in BwB. It was some of the most fun PvP I ever had. Vet camps for newer players is way worse than BwB. The reasoning is related to what Satiar is talking about too, in BwB there are a ton of random groups all over zone chat. Greatest place to learn the works of Cyro.

For what it's worth I had a great time during the Wild West of year 1 on console. I'm also a weirdo who used to play Tiger Woods golf without a green grid.

To be honest, aside from cases where it was "PC TRANSFER INCOMING ... RUN!!!!" it was a pretty fun environment. I didn't actually ever feel incapable until I got to about VR5, which was about when most of the players who can play 40 hours a week got to VR14. Those few months were pretty awful.

I remember man, VR3 stamblade without Vigor checking in...

Publius_Scipio

DaveMoeDee wrote: »

timidobserver wrote: »

I think that battlegrounds will fill the role of helping people with the skill gap.

I expect battlegrounds to be far worse. With the small numbers in battlegrounds, deficiencies will be even more obvious.

I can't wait for all the balance complaints when battlegrounds is launched. Good luck ZOS with that pandora's box.

This may or may not end up being true depending on how Morrowind pans out. That being said, ZOS is already doing a huge thing by having battlegrounds be no CP (at least for now).

QuebraRegra

how do we get the old BWB back where you could just run around naked due to caps? Good fun

Alpheu5

Zander98 wrote: »

Much of what is happening in cyro is what we have created.

This has been said before, but it never sinks in.

LeifErickson

Takllin wrote: »

Satiar wrote: »

Takllin wrote: »

Satiar wrote: »

NBrookus wrote: »

Satiar wrote: »

Edit: I write this acknowledging I'm part of the problem but not sure how to fix it. We do still take on recruits but in very limited numbers, as too many begin to cost you fights and veterans will get frustrated. I really wish there were more up and coming guilds, groups learning together or at least providing training for those who want to move up.

Time for the big guilds to do bring-a-pug nights.

One big issue is that new players turned from "people we can easily carry in a strong raid" into "free VD procs for the enemy".

Following crown was too easy. It's hard to get new players to grasp individual play within a group

Our group was (and still is) the only high level pvp guild that regularly recruits and trains from zone. This was one of the things we were always proud of, that we found many of our core from zone or guilds the other elite groups mocked. We never minded giving a player a chance, we only asked they be willing they do it our way and learn.

This is harder to do now, as the learning curve is much steeper. I brought up VD because we had that exact conversation some patches ago. A new player isn't just someone to carry now, a new player can be actively harmful to your group. This isn't a nerf VD thread, but what I'm trying to get at is that there are many, many blockages to new players becoming established and finding homes in the PvP community, some on a mechanical level and others on a personal level.

When I was leading rage pre-TG I recruited a few players from zone with some good results. One of them participated in the GvG and ended up being a strong player overall. I'm agreeing with you here. The hardest thing to learn in this game is how to not die imo, and like you said dying can have severe consequences affecting the group rather than just the player.

Knowing how to not die is probably the easiest thing in this game

Takllin

LeifErickson wrote: »

Takllin wrote: »

Satiar wrote: »

Takllin wrote: »

Satiar wrote: »

NBrookus wrote: »

Satiar wrote: »

Edit: I write this acknowledging I'm part of the problem but not sure how to fix it. We do still take on recruits but in very limited numbers, as too many begin to cost you fights and veterans will get frustrated. I really wish there were more up and coming guilds, groups learning together or at least providing training for those who want to move up.

Time for the big guilds to do bring-a-pug nights.

One big issue is that new players turned from "people we can easily carry in a strong raid" into "free VD procs for the enemy".

Following crown was too easy. It's hard to get new players to grasp individual play within a group

Our group was (and still is) the only high level pvp guild that regularly recruits and trains from zone. This was one of the things we were always proud of, that we found many of our core from zone or guilds the other elite groups mocked. We never minded giving a player a chance, we only asked they be willing they do it our way and learn.

This is harder to do now, as the learning curve is much steeper. I brought up VD because we had that exact conversation some patches ago. A new player isn't just someone to carry now, a new player can be actively harmful to your group. This isn't a nerf VD thread, but what I'm trying to get at is that there are many, many blockages to new players becoming established and finding homes in the PvP community, some on a mechanical level and others on a personal level.

When I was leading rage pre-TG I recruited a few players from zone with some good results. One of them participated in the GvG and ended up being a strong player overall. I'm agreeing with you here. The hardest thing to learn in this game is how to not die imo, and like you said dying can have severe consequences affecting the group rather than just the player.

Knowing how to not die is probably the easiest thing in this game

Once you know it. If you look around in cyrodiil you'll find it's a foreign concept to a majority of the population. Knowing mechanics, where to stand and when to stand there, how much punishment you can take given the scenario. In an organized group setting a new player can be overwhelmed just by following directions, let alone worrying about everything else they need to do themselves. A new player likely doesn't even know what abilities the other classes have and exactly what they do.

Turtl3Lov3

Takllin wrote: »

LeifErickson wrote: »

Takllin wrote: »

Satiar wrote: »

Takllin wrote: »

Satiar wrote: »

NBrookus wrote: »

Satiar wrote: »

Edit: I write this acknowledging I'm part of the problem but not sure how to fix it. We do still take on recruits but in very limited numbers, as too many begin to cost you fights and veterans will get frustrated. I really wish there were more up and coming guilds, groups learning together or at least providing training for those who want to move up.

Time for the big guilds to do bring-a-pug nights.

One big issue is that new players turned from "people we can easily carry in a strong raid" into "free VD procs for the enemy".

Following crown was too easy. It's hard to get new players to grasp individual play within a group

Our group was (and still is) the only high level pvp guild that regularly recruits and trains from zone. This was one of the things we were always proud of, that we found many of our core from zone or guilds the other elite groups mocked. We never minded giving a player a chance, we only asked they be willing they do it our way and learn.

This is harder to do now, as the learning curve is much steeper. I brought up VD because we had that exact conversation some patches ago. A new player isn't just someone to carry now, a new player can be actively harmful to your group. This isn't a nerf VD thread, but what I'm trying to get at is that there are many, many blockages to new players becoming established and finding homes in the PvP community, some on a mechanical level and others on a personal level.

When I was leading rage pre-TG I recruited a few players from zone with some good results. One of them participated in the GvG and ended up being a strong player overall. I'm agreeing with you here. The hardest thing to learn in this game is how to not die imo, and like you said dying can have severe consequences affecting the group rather than just the player.

Knowing how to not die is probably the easiest thing in this game

Once you know it. If you look around in Cyrodil you'll find it's a foreign concept to a majority of the population. Knowing mechanics, where to stand and when to stand there, how much punishment you can take given the scenario. In an organized group setting a new player can be overwhelmed just by following directions, let alone worrying about everything else they need to do themselves.

Are you sure you're not talking about PVE?

Derra

IcyDeadPeople wrote: »

DaveMoeDee wrote: »

timidobserver wrote: »

I think that battlegrounds will fill the role of helping people with the skill gap.

I expect battlegrounds to be far worse. With the small numbers in battlegrounds, deficiencies will be even more obvious.

I can't wait for all the balance complaints when battlegrounds is launched. Good luck ZOS with that pandora's box.

@Vanzen

I suppose a successful match making system for any game depends on the total number of concurrent players. This is the reason for this topic, how to get more players for PVP/Battlegrounds.

If there are tons of people at all different skill levels who want to join, then any typical match making system can more easily assign fair teams for new players, whether it is some mix of new and experienced or even 12 complete noobs battling to the death.

Otherwise, if we remain with our smaller current PVP population, it becomes more difficult to wind up with even matches, especially off peak hours. Which can result in new players quitting after a few rounds.

That would imply that bgs would launch with a matchmaking system and coresponding player/account rank.

As far as we know it´s just gonna be random ffa.

Takllin

Turtl3Lov3 wrote: »

Takllin wrote: »

LeifErickson wrote: »

Takllin wrote: »

Satiar wrote: »

Takllin wrote: »

Satiar wrote: »

NBrookus wrote: »

Satiar wrote: »

Edit: I write this acknowledging I'm part of the problem but not sure how to fix it. We do still take on recruits but in very limited numbers, as too many begin to cost you fights and veterans will get frustrated. I really wish there were more up and coming guilds, groups learning together or at least providing training for those who want to move up.

Time for the big guilds to do bring-a-pug nights.

One big issue is that new players turned from "people we can easily carry in a strong raid" into "free VD procs for the enemy".

Following crown was too easy. It's hard to get new players to grasp individual play within a group

Our group was (and still is) the only high level pvp guild that regularly recruits and trains from zone. This was one of the things we were always proud of, that we found many of our core from zone or guilds the other elite groups mocked. We never minded giving a player a chance, we only asked they be willing they do it our way and learn.

This is harder to do now, as the learning curve is much steeper. I brought up VD because we had that exact conversation some patches ago. A new player isn't just someone to carry now, a new player can be actively harmful to your group. This isn't a nerf VD thread, but what I'm trying to get at is that there are many, many blockages to new players becoming established and finding homes in the PvP community, some on a mechanical level and others on a personal level.

When I was leading rage pre-TG I recruited a few players from zone with some good results. One of them participated in the GvG and ended up being a strong player overall. I'm agreeing with you here. The hardest thing to learn in this game is how to not die imo, and like you said dying can have severe consequences affecting the group rather than just the player.

Knowing how to not die is probably the easiest thing in this game

Once you know it. If you look around in Cyrodil you'll find it's a foreign concept to a majority of the population. Knowing mechanics, where to stand and when to stand there, how much punishment you can take given the scenario. In an organized group setting a new player can be overwhelmed just by following directions, let alone worrying about everything else they need to do themselves.

Are you sure you're not talking about PVE?

Yes. PvE is much simpler.

Prince_of_all_Pugs

i cant help but feel that pvp in ESO is EXTREMELY unforgiving to new players. New players have to learn so much like how to siege, how to build for pvp, how to survive how to weave and use your skills and much more. Furthermore the poor green horns have to do this with very little help from the community. Pvp Guilds often do not recruit green horns to their small man pvp groups , zergs also dont really like to invite newer players because newer players can get an entire group killed. a reason behind this is the VD set, the more weak greenhorns you have in your stack the more likely they will trigger a VD proc and wipe your raid. I can honestly say I have probably had to kick over 70 new players from my guild because they where compromising the survivability of my raid. Poor players.

kuro-dono

the amount of unforgiving skilles aoe skills we got in this game turns lots of ppl from pvp. timing and burst, you dont need to target anyone and your friendlies dont suffer from friendlyfire. so easy and simple, just run 3...2...1...3....2...1. deto...3...2..1... and so on.

QuebraRegra

Prince_of_all_Pugs wrote: »

i cant help but feel that pvp in ESO is EXTREMELY unforgiving to new players. New players have to learn so much like how to siege, how to build for pvp, how to survive how to weave and use your skills and much more. Furthermore the poor green horns have to do this with very little help from the community. Pvp Guilds often do not recruit green horns to their small man pvp groups , zergs also dont really like to invite newer players because newer players can get an entire group killed. a reason behind this is the VD set, the more weak greenhorns you have in your stack the more likely they will trigger a VD proc and wipe your raid. I can honestly say I have probably had to kick over 70 new players from my guild because they where compromising the survivability of my raid. Poor players.

interesting...

it might be nice if BWB were really converted to a "beginners" campaign. Re-introduce caps, turn off the proc from proc sets, disable/moderate some of the OP ults, etc. Maybe make an actual siege tutorial ('watch out for oil on that front door noob-saibot")

Dreyloch

Well OP,

I envy your bright outlook. I too was enthralled with the PvP from the get go. But I came to ESO for it. I knew full well it was going to take time to "get gud". I just don't think your going to see a surge in population with BG's, and guilds taking breaks to regear. Might also see a few people leave the game altogether over the changes.

Anyhow, there is always blackwater blade for new players to check out, or recruit if your into that kind of thing.

apostate9

QuebraRegra wrote: »

Prince_of_all_Pugs wrote: »

i cant help but feel that pvp in ESO is EXTREMELY unforgiving to new players. New players have to learn so much like how to siege, how to build for pvp, how to survive how to weave and use your skills and much more. Furthermore the poor green horns have to do this with very little help from the community. Pvp Guilds often do not recruit green horns to their small man pvp groups , zergs also dont really like to invite newer players because newer players can get an entire group killed. a reason behind this is the VD set, the more weak greenhorns you have in your stack the more likely they will trigger a VD proc and wipe your raid. I can honestly say I have probably had to kick over 70 new players from my guild because they where compromising the survivability of my raid. Poor players.

interesting...

it might be nice if BWB were really converted to a "beginners" campaign. Re-introduce caps, turn off the proc from proc sets, disable/moderate some of the OP ults, etc. Maybe make an actual siege tutorial ('watch out for oil on that front door noob-saibot")

Don't disable proc sets or any of that, it just creates a view of the end-game that isn't real. It's self defeating in the long run, when these guys get to TF.

Just make it so that once your account has CP, you are banned from BWB.

Biro123

apostate9 wrote: »

QuebraRegra wrote: »

Prince_of_all_Pugs wrote: »

i cant help but feel that pvp in ESO is EXTREMELY unforgiving to new players. New players have to learn so much like how to siege, how to build for pvp, how to survive how to weave and use your skills and much more. Furthermore the poor green horns have to do this with very little help from the community. Pvp Guilds often do not recruit green horns to their small man pvp groups , zergs also dont really like to invite newer players because newer players can get an entire group killed. a reason behind this is the VD set, the more weak greenhorns you have in your stack the more likely they will trigger a VD proc and wipe your raid. I can honestly say I have probably had to kick over 70 new players from my guild because they where compromising the survivability of my raid. Poor players.

interesting...

it might be nice if BWB were really converted to a "beginners" campaign. Re-introduce caps, turn off the proc from proc sets, disable/moderate some of the OP ults, etc. Maybe make an actual siege tutorial ('watch out for oil on that front door noob-saibot")

Don't disable proc sets or any of that, it just creates a view of the end-game that isn't real. It's self defeating in the long run, when these guys get to TF.

Just make it so that once your account has CP, you are banned from BWB.

Was just gonna suggest that... Too many experienced players in there preying on the new guys in BWB to be healthy..

kuro-dono

Biro123 wrote: »

apostate9 wrote: »

QuebraRegra wrote: »

Prince_of_all_Pugs wrote: »

i cant help but feel that pvp in ESO is EXTREMELY unforgiving to new players. New players have to learn so much like how to siege, how to build for pvp, how to survive how to weave and use your skills and much more. Furthermore the poor green horns have to do this with very little help from the community. Pvp Guilds often do not recruit green horns to their small man pvp groups , zergs also dont really like to invite newer players because newer players can get an entire group killed. a reason behind this is the VD set, the more weak greenhorns you have in your stack the more likely they will trigger a VD proc and wipe your raid. I can honestly say I have probably had to kick over 70 new players from my guild because they where compromising the survivability of my raid. Poor players.

interesting...

it might be nice if BWB were really converted to a "beginners" campaign. Re-introduce caps, turn off the proc from proc sets, disable/moderate some of the OP ults, etc. Maybe make an actual siege tutorial ('watch out for oil on that front door noob-saibot")

Don't disable proc sets or any of that, it just creates a view of the end-game that isn't real. It's self defeating in the long run, when these guys get to TF.

Just make it so that once your account has CP, you are banned from BWB.

Was just gonna suggest that... Too many experienced players in there preying on the new guys in BWB to be healthy..

i would add into this > have 2 blackwaterblades. one for ppl with cp and one for ppl without cp.
tho that could cause another meltdown when experienced players buy new accounts just to play at nocp on account blackwaterblade just to grief n00bs.

Kungfu

Unfortunately, the gap isn't skill: it's sheer numbers. Bringing back faction loyalty would also help keep newer players feeling like they are a "part" of something but this first:

New players don't look at Haderus' one-bar populations and think "oh that's probably good for me," they look at Trueflame and think "everybody goes there, it must be fun."

Then they get in, find a battle, more than likely get rolled by a group of anywhere from 20 to 60 a few times, and leave worth the impression that one player has no effect.

Bring back faction loyalty and add another campaign and you'll see more new players stick around.

Darnathian

Satiar wrote: »

Takllin wrote: »

Satiar wrote: »

zyk wrote: »

I don't think a lack of guilds is the problem. The lack of guilds is a symptom of the many problems this game has which start with a lack of care from ZOS.

I think a lot of PVP enthusiasts don't get that many casual players don't want to be in a guild. Many don't want commitments. They don't want to deal with TS -- which can be annoying. A lot don't really want to L2P or git gud. They just want some fun pew pew pew pew like most people who play on FPS public servers.

I think what they do probably want is to fight other players of a similar interest level. At least to start. Guild and clan scenes form on top of a strong casual base. Some of those casuals eventually become enthusiasts who feed guilds.

I can't imagine any game that would grow very well when the casual base is constantly hunted and berated by enthusiasts.

If you want to make the game more fun for the average player, fight alongside them and help them. Help them defeat the guilds and groups farming them. Don't leave them at the tower or keep to fend for themselves against a Haxus or VE for an hour while your group of experienced players farms opposition casuals elsewhere.

Players will usually only stick around if they have good experiences. Those casuals and randoms you've wrecked at Bleaker's or Fare LM the past hour aren't having those.

Absolutely agree.

Though I'm still surprised we got where we are. We had a good history of guilds and groups trading places at the top. And then it's 2 years later, all those groups have mixed and condensed into 2-3 groups and the progress of groups beneath them is stagnant.

It's been sad watching the groups at the top remain unchanged and realizing no one is coming up to replace them.

This really set in for me when Rage disbanded. Before that there was always a new one. When our long fight with Deci ended there was Rage, when Nexus ended their was Haxus and GoS, etc. Then suddenly Rage was gone and there was nothing on AD to replace them.

I remember warning people that there was a lack of guilds behind Rage.

I mean, warnings are good and all but Rage's fate was in the hands of Rage. No one wanted them to disband but it wasn't in our hands

Wasn't that around the time VE was exploiting the meteor fall damage bug because "everyone" was doing it?

Etaniel

The gap is more of a gear grind gap than a skill gap nowadays though..
On one hand you've got the new players who only have one undaunted set with decent trait to play with and some crafted set, and on the other hand, players with all undaunted sets, vma weapons, dungeon sets with that special sharpened fire destro that took them 5 months to grind, as well as millions of gold to get everything in that shiny yellow colour.

Skill gap is not relevant since everyone is blobbing up anyways.

NeillMcAttack

IxSTALKERxI wrote: »

ESO is 90% gear 10% skill. New players get rekt because they don't have CP or any gear sets or monster helms, potions and they have no idea how to make a build that works well in cyrodiil. A lot of that comes from experience though.

Edit: Although after saying that at least it's not as bad as bdo. BDO is like 99.99% gear from good RNG and months of grinding and 0.01% skill.

So you're saying if you take a new player, give him BiS PvP gear, all levels, passives and CP needed to be on par with the top tier players, that they will compete against 90% of players that have been playing for over two years?

I really don't think so!

Sandman929

The learning curve is less of an obstacle than the egomanical "git gud scrub" attitude of the established player base. Nothing turns new players off faster.

Etaniel

NeillMcAttack wrote: »

IxSTALKERxI wrote: »

ESO is 90% gear 10% skill. New players get rekt because they don't have CP or any gear sets or monster helms, potions and they have no idea how to make a build that works well in cyrodiil. A lot of that comes from experience though.

Edit: Although after saying that at least it's not as bad as bdo. BDO is like 99.99% gear from good RNG and months of grinding and 0.01% skill.

So you're saying if you take a new player, give him BiS PvP gear, all levels, passives and CP needed to be on par with the top tier players, that they will compete against 90% of players that have been playing for over two years?

I really don't think so!

I actually really think so. There are less and less things to know about combat as patches go on.
And when you see the amount of people who try to jesus beam you at 100%, in melee range, I have no doubt that a new player with bis gear can compete with 90% of the playerbase.

Rickter

I htink what would help new pvpers the most is if ZOS decides what exactly they want pvp to be.

Concepts that will leave newbies utterly clueless:

• Is pvp meant to be large scale, small scale, 1vX? If this was clearly defined as in "Hello, ZOS here, we'd like to announce that we envisioned pvp to be played x way" - i htink that would go a long way. why? because knowing what direction the devs are developing in tells players how they should be building/expecting
  
• Is pvp supposed to be CP or noCP? currently, the most popular and competitive pvp server is trueflame - but competitive BGs in the upcoming patch are noCP - we have a noCP campaign but its not as popular - whats it going to be zos? please unify the pvp experience before you try and unify the pve and pvp experience
  
• How competitive is ESO pvp supposed to be exactly? if we are heading towards balance and near esports level - then why arent the proc sets and poisons being addressed? If ESO pvp is meant to be more casual, then just let us know!

The division in development focus is causing division in the playerbase where veterans want one thing and newbie/casual pvpers want something entirely different.

Curtdogg47

Its not the skill gap. Its that people are to lazy to learn how to play the game. They just want to be good with no effort. To be good at anything takes time and failing before you get good.

I didn't go to PVP until I reached max level and got my gear. And still it took time get to where I was winning fights more than losing.

However with CP system it now takes longer to reach the cap than it did before. Maybe the power creep is now steeper. It will be interesting to see how the CP changes coming up effect things.

But overall skill is skill and some have it naturally but most of us have to develop it through practice.