Skill Gap Too High for New Players in PVP?

kuro-dono

Curtdogg47 wrote: »

Its not the skill gap. Its that people are to lazy to learn how to play the game. They just want to be good with no effort. To be good at anything takes time and failing before you get good.

I didn't go to PVP until I reached max level and got my gear. And still it took time get to where I was winning fights more than losing.

However with CP system it now takes longer to reach the cap than it did before. Maybe the power creep is now steeper. It will be interesting to see how the CP changes coming up effect things.

But overall skill is skill and some have it naturally but most of us have to develop it through practice.

some ppl just want to casually participate in keep captures, and little skirmishes and enjoy it, instead of play in zero chance fights or get overrun by aoe choo choo or run over bunch of pugs. yes, there is quite bit of ppl who want to enjoy casual action, kill and die. not just repeatedly farm farm farm with their elite hax adhd skilzzz

TBois

kuro-dono wrote: »

Curtdogg47 wrote: »

Its not the skill gap. Its that people are to lazy to learn how to play the game. They just want to be good with no effort. To be good at anything takes time and failing before you get good.

I didn't go to PVP until I reached max level and got my gear. And still it took time get to where I was winning fights more than losing.

However with CP system it now takes longer to reach the cap than it did before. Maybe the power creep is now steeper. It will be interesting to see how the CP changes coming up effect things.

But overall skill is skill and some have it naturally but most of us have to develop it through practice.

some ppl just want to casually participate in keep captures, and little skirmishes and enjoy it, instead of play in zero chance fights or get overrun by aoe choo choo or run over bunch of pugs. yes, there is quite bit of ppl who want to enjoy casual action, kill and die. not just repeatedly farm farm farm with their elite hax adhd skilzzz

As someone who casually plays solo now, it is still possible to find fun fights that a solo player can make an impact (excluding against very top tier guilds). I have been playing since a couple of weeks after launch, and did play in more hardcore guilds previously. So I did put in a lot of time to learn the game before I could get to this point, but If you have the determination and are ok with during while you get used to your build, you can find the fights you want.

alexkdd99

apostate9 wrote: »

QuebraRegra wrote: »

Prince_of_all_Pugs wrote: »

i cant help but feel that pvp in ESO is EXTREMELY unforgiving to new players. New players have to learn so much like how to siege, how to build for pvp, how to survive how to weave and use your skills and much more. Furthermore the poor green horns have to do this with very little help from the community. Pvp Guilds often do not recruit green horns to their small man pvp groups , zergs also dont really like to invite newer players because newer players can get an entire group killed. a reason behind this is the VD set, the more weak greenhorns you have in your stack the more likely they will trigger a VD proc and wipe your raid. I can honestly say I have probably had to kick over 70 new players from my guild because they where compromising the survivability of my raid. Poor players.

interesting...

it might be nice if BWB were really converted to a "beginners" campaign. Re-introduce caps, turn off the proc from proc sets, disable/moderate some of the OP ults, etc. Maybe make an actual siege tutorial ('watch out for oil on that front door noob-saibot")

Don't disable proc sets or any of that, it just creates a view of the end-game that isn't real. It's self defeating in the long run, when these guys get to TF.

Just make it so that once your account has CP, you are banned from BWB.

Then who will teach the new players? People lose sight on just how much there is to learn in this game. After you have played for awhile you tend to forget that what you consider basic now was advanced when you were new.

I do this, and I belive most veteran players do as well. I took a few people from a couple different guilds and let them test their dps thinking the normal dps would be around 20k. I was wrong. I know this is relevant to pve, but learning basic game play aspects applies to both. Weaving/ animation canceling is a huge issue in regards to skill gap between players. Just learning that will boost your burst damage(pvp) and overall dps(pve). If nobody teaches that then players are at a huge disadvantage.

Someone posted that it only takes a month, but that imo is way underestimated. If you had never played this game and didn't have friends playing, you would be nowhere close to putting up a decent fight in pvp.

Imo, battlegrounds success depends completely upon how well the matchmaking system will work. If new or random solo players are getting matched against premade veteran players and getting slaughtered then it won't be terribly successful. Especially considering they will have split their already small pvp community between 3 different maps/ pvp areas. Ic, Cyrodiil, and battlegrounds. And now they will be balancing gameplay around a bunch of different factors, they haven't shown to be very competent at it this far.

I also fell in love with the PvP at level 10,maybe it was 15 not sure. But that was a different time and the game doesn't offer up that experience as well anymore. I will say my friend went into cyrodil at around level 20 for the first time and told me he had a blast using siege and taking a keep some traveling in a zerg. But those experiences are rarer than ever. As much as people complain about zergs and zos trying to bust them up, they are good for new players and this game used those big zergs as a marketing tool.

I have found new players are the most frustrated over gankers. When riding along and you are dead before you can respond, that causes extreme frustration and drives people away. People want to feel like they have a fighting chance.

They advertised a play how you want game with massive battles. And delivered on that, in the beginning. They have lost sight on how the game was originally and I don't think they will ever get it back to where it was.

SnubbS

This game has the lowest skill-gap of any game I have ever played.

MaximillianDiE

SnubbS wrote: »

This game has the lowest skill-gap of any game I have ever played.

And right now the skill-gap is the lowest its been since launch.

Zander98

It has a low skill gap.
However there is a large KNOWLEDGE gap.
With all the sets, morphs for skills, "doesn't fire ballistad do the most damage against doors", etc.
Maybe it should be thought of as a knowledge gap.

IcyDeadPeople

MaximillianDiE wrote: »

SnubbS wrote: »

This game has the lowest skill-gap of any game I have ever played.

And right now the skill-gap is the lowest its been since launch.

At launch and perhaps around six months or so afterward, most players were still pretty bad at 1v1 PVP on PC NA at least. Just learning some basic things that you could practice with duels like how to block, cc the enemy, manage your resources etc, put you on a level above most players.

There were a few really good players back then of course, but even if you were totally new you could get into some fights and still hold your own because a lot of enemy players were inexperienced as well. And there were more players in total at various skill levels.

These days the PVP population is a small fraction of what it was, and most of the players who have stuck around are pretty experienced. There are a lot more super tough players these days and nearly everyone is much better at small fights.

Some of these new people who join PVP for the first time these days feel like it's incredibly difficult, think everyone is cheating or something who kills them quickly, get turned off and go straight back to PVE. This is what I mean when referring to bigger gap between the skill/experience level of noobs vs average player in Cyrodiil these days.

I just hope we get enough new players engaged so that the Battlegrounds will have enough people queuing at all different skill levels to assign fair teams.

Itoq

IcyDeadPeople wrote: »

...go to Cyrodiil to participate in filming a big battle video for a trailer. Mind was blown. Suddenly I was in this massive sandbox world..

That is an insult to sandboxes and what a sandbox is for persistent world MMO PVP.

Just because Cyrodiil is more sandboxy than ESO PVE does not make it a sandbox. [snip] But, come on now, sandboxes are a real concept that Cyrdodiil does not fit.

Hell, even zose stopped calling any part of ESO a sandbox long ago. Or did ZOS's marketing team trump reality again and start calling parts of ESO a sandbox again?

,

[Edit for Real World Politics]

rastamun1234b14_ESO

So I just started a little over a month ago gave PvP about 10 hours total learned almost nothing and accomplished almost nothing. No one uses the grouping tool and no one ever wants to invite so I try to guess on the map what's going on and always get there too late. Spent a few hours looking up builds and gear that I don't have yet. Got a pretty decent magsorc build. So I spend all this time running around just to get demolished in seconds through my shields and maybe if I'm lucky get off like a 7-8k Insta frag. Literally have died hundreds of times, barely got any kills, and just ran from point to point for hours all while learning nothing because encounters last for seconds.

Dudis

People are talking like running in the larger pvp guilds, or "zerg blobbing" as some people call it - is the end goal of PvP, i really don't think it is for most people.

If they want pvp to be more noob-friendly, there needs to be more casual things for people to do in small groups. Adding the capture-points in towns for example was a good idea but the implementation was pretty poor.

Add actual mines and lumbermills or other small targets to fight over and make protecting these and the resources actually important. I know this opens up for ganking etc, but it gets people involved and maybe even interested in the bigger picture. Gankers also have a role in the bigger picture through killing reinforcements, so lets make ganking more of a core element of AvA and give gankers some actual objectives rather than just stomping "noobs".

There could be caravan (attack/protect) events in the open, going from these new points to the larger mills etc near the keeps, as well as many other things for solos and small groups to do. These should give a decent reward and tie into the overall AvA by affecting keep/guard strengths, let you repair walls quicker because more resources are coming in and so on.

This means a small skirmish on the outskirts could sway the tide of a keep-fight and people might actually start fighting for their alliance rather than for themselves for once.

leepalmer95

rastamun1234b14_ESO wrote: »

So I just started a little over a month ago gave PvP about 10 hours total learned almost nothing and accomplished almost nothing. No one uses the grouping tool and no one ever wants to invite so I try to guess on the map what's going on and always get there too late. Spent a few hours looking up builds and gear that I don't have yet. Got a pretty decent magsorc build. So I spend all this time running around just to get demolished in seconds through my shields and maybe if I'm lucky get off like a 7-8k Insta frag. Literally have died hundreds of times, barely got any kills, and just ran from point to point for hours all while learning nothing because encounters last for seconds.

Go into non cp.

Google a few guide videos, learn animation cancelling watch some good mag sorc's and look at what they do.

IcyDeadPeople

rastamun1234b14_ESO wrote: »

So I just started a little over a month ago gave PvP about 10 hours total learned almost nothing and accomplished almost nothing. No one uses the grouping tool and no one ever wants to invite so I try to guess on the map what's going on and always get there too late. Spent a few hours looking up builds and gear that I don't have yet. Got a pretty decent magsorc build. So I spend all this time running around just to get demolished in seconds through my shields and maybe if I'm lucky get off like a 7-8k Insta frag. Literally have died hundreds of times, barely got any kills, and just ran from point to point for hours all while learning nothing because encounters last for seconds.

These days there are a lot more experienced PVP players compared to the first year or so after launch, but just keep in mind everyone you see in Cyrodiil, even the top guys who are killing a lot of enemies, at one time they were all complete beginners. They just spent a lot of time practicing.

If you are interested in improving, the best way is to have a friend who is experienced at PVP duel you over and over for a while. You will get the hang of managing your resources, CC, using your burst combo, blocking, etc.