What is the light at the end of this tunnel? Theories anyone? A zos response if I am lucky?

DragonBound

Alright so something very strange is going on, to me these changes seem fairly bad at the moment and not only because others are showing results in videos and such, just by reading the changes they are concerning. I cannot fathom why zos would want to drive players away, especially those who continue like me to spend money on cosmetics and more.

So logically there has to be a reason for this, I know all of you are intelligent and in no way are doing this because you do not know better, so maybe you could give us little bit of detail here what we will see at the end of this update? For example in what way will this create build diversity for trials and more?

Thank you for reading, and zos if your reading please give us a response we would greatly appreciate it.

Gamers any theories? Lets try to be optimistic as possible I want to see positive theories for once maybe there is something we are not seeing.

NightbladeMechanics

To revert rampant, degrading, unbridled power creep that has accumulated unanswered over the years.

The changes are still imperfect, but they're a good start.

DragonBound

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

To revert rampant, degrading, unbridled power creep that has accumulated unanswered over the years.

The changes are still imperfect, but they're a good start.

Interesting, I have kind of heard a smaller explanation of this, but why do so many disagree?

Takes-No-Prisoner

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

To revert rampant, degrading, unbridled power creep that has accumulated unanswered over the years.

The changes are still imperfect, but they're a good start.

DragonBound wrote: »

Interesting, I have kind of heard a smaller explanation of this, but why do so many disagree?

Fear of the unknown.

Mojmir

cant have power creep if you have no population/competition

UppGRAYxDD

New Class and new content?

scorpiodog

DragonBound wrote: »

Alright so something very strange is going on, to me these changes seem fairly bad at the moment and not only because others are showing results in videos and such, just by reading the changes they are concerning. I cannot fathom why zos would want to drive players away, especially those who continue like me to spend money on cosmetics and more.

So logically there has to be a reason for this, I know all of you are intelligent and in no way are doing this because you do not know better, so maybe you could give us little bit of detail here what we will see at the end of this update? For example in what way will this create build diversity for trials and more?

Thank you for reading, and zos if your reading please give us a response we would greatly appreciate it.

Gamers any theories? Lets try to be optimistic as possible I want to see positive theories for once maybe there is something we are not seeing.

You can always have fun if you want to. OR You can always be upset about changes if you want to.

It's a personal choice everyone makes if they see a change and want to get all upset about it or just roll with it.

My main is a Stamina NB. I have some choices:
- I can boo hoo hoo and spend all my time campaigning on the forum to ruin the game for others
- I can just accept the limits of the class and enjoy the strengths
- I can level up a magica sorc alt and play that. It takes less than a week to get enough skill points to get everything unlocked.

DragonBound

scorpiodog wrote: »

DragonBound wrote: »

Alright so something very strange is going on, to me these changes seem fairly bad at the moment and not only because others are showing results in videos and such, just by reading the changes they are concerning. I cannot fathom why zos would want to drive players away, especially those who continue like me to spend money on cosmetics and more.

So logically there has to be a reason for this, I know all of you are intelligent and in no way are doing this because you do not know better, so maybe you could give us little bit of detail here what we will see at the end of this update? For example in what way will this create build diversity for trials and more?

Thank you for reading, and zos if your reading please give us a response we would greatly appreciate it.

Gamers any theories? Lets try to be optimistic as possible I want to see positive theories for once maybe there is something we are not seeing.

You can always have fun if you want to. OR You can always be upset about changes if you want to.

It's a personal choice everyone makes if they see a change and want to get all upset about it or just roll with it.

My main is a Stamina NB. I have some choices:
- I can boo hoo hoo and spend all my time campaigning on the forum to ruin the game for others
- I can just accept the limits of the class and enjoy the strengths
- I can level up a magica sorc alt and play that. It takes less than a week to get enough skill points to get everything unlocked.

This has nothing to do with my post and was not what I was asking please come up with something more constructive and stay on topic in this thread.

LiquidPony

scorpiodog wrote: »

DragonBound wrote: »

Alright so something very strange is going on, to me these changes seem fairly bad at the moment and not only because others are showing results in videos and such, just by reading the changes they are concerning. I cannot fathom why zos would want to drive players away, especially those who continue like me to spend money on cosmetics and more.

So logically there has to be a reason for this, I know all of you are intelligent and in no way are doing this because you do not know better, so maybe you could give us little bit of detail here what we will see at the end of this update? For example in what way will this create build diversity for trials and more?

Thank you for reading, and zos if your reading please give us a response we would greatly appreciate it.

Gamers any theories? Lets try to be optimistic as possible I want to see positive theories for once maybe there is something we are not seeing.

You can always have fun if you want to. OR You can always be upset about changes if you want to.

It's a personal choice everyone makes if they see a change and want to get all upset about it or just roll with it.

My main is a Stamina NB. I have some choices:
- I can boo hoo hoo and spend all my time campaigning on the forum to ruin the game for others
- I can just accept the limits of the class and enjoy the strengths
- I can level up a magica sorc alt and play that. It takes less than a week to get enough skill points to get everything unlocked.

Your stamina NB no longer has any strengths. So enjoy ... nothing.

Sigtric

DragonBound wrote: »

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

To revert rampant, degrading, unbridled power creep that has accumulated unanswered over the years.

The changes are still imperfect, but they're a good start.

Interesting, I have kind of heard a smaller explanation of this, but why do so many disagree?

Because these 'rampant, degrading, unbridled power creep' causing changes made it really easy to play this game. Now they are trying to fix that and it's going to raise the difficulty level back to where it should have been in the first place. This makes people mad.

Way back, ESO overland had some pretty difficult areas. Now we can just smash our faces into the keyboard and win because of power creep.

We should indeed feel stronger after spending countless hours upgrading our characters, and honing our ability to play, but at the same time the game has been getting easier and easier to surf through content because of the ability to pump out really high DPS and practically ignore sustain.

TLDR the little kiddies got used to being fed ice cream for dinner every night and are now throwing a temper tantrum when it's going back to healthy meals.

scorpiodog

DragonBound wrote: »

scorpiodog wrote: »

DragonBound wrote: »

Alright so something very strange is going on, to me these changes seem fairly bad at the moment and not only because others are showing results in videos and such, just by reading the changes they are concerning. I cannot fathom why zos would want to drive players away, especially those who continue like me to spend money on cosmetics and more.

So logically there has to be a reason for this, I know all of you are intelligent and in no way are doing this because you do not know better, so maybe you could give us little bit of detail here what we will see at the end of this update? For example in what way will this create build diversity for trials and more?

Thank you for reading, and zos if your reading please give us a response we would greatly appreciate it.

Gamers any theories? Lets try to be optimistic as possible I want to see positive theories for once maybe there is something we are not seeing.

You can always have fun if you want to. OR You can always be upset about changes if you want to.

It's a personal choice everyone makes if they see a change and want to get all upset about it or just roll with it.

My main is a Stamina NB. I have some choices:
- I can boo hoo hoo and spend all my time campaigning on the forum to ruin the game for others
- I can just accept the limits of the class and enjoy the strengths
- I can level up a magica sorc alt and play that. It takes less than a week to get enough skill points to get everything unlocked.

This has nothing to do with my post and was not what I was asking please come up with something more constructive and stay on topic in this thread.

The "light at the end of the tunnel" has more to do with your perspective, not ZOS trying to make you happy.

DragonBound

scorpiodog wrote: »

DragonBound wrote: »

scorpiodog wrote: »

DragonBound wrote: »

Alright so something very strange is going on, to me these changes seem fairly bad at the moment and not only because others are showing results in videos and such, just by reading the changes they are concerning. I cannot fathom why zos would want to drive players away, especially those who continue like me to spend money on cosmetics and more.

So logically there has to be a reason for this, I know all of you are intelligent and in no way are doing this because you do not know better, so maybe you could give us little bit of detail here what we will see at the end of this update? For example in what way will this create build diversity for trials and more?

Thank you for reading, and zos if your reading please give us a response we would greatly appreciate it.

Gamers any theories? Lets try to be optimistic as possible I want to see positive theories for once maybe there is something we are not seeing.

You can always have fun if you want to. OR You can always be upset about changes if you want to.

It's a personal choice everyone makes if they see a change and want to get all upset about it or just roll with it.

My main is a Stamina NB. I have some choices:
- I can boo hoo hoo and spend all my time campaigning on the forum to ruin the game for others
- I can just accept the limits of the class and enjoy the strengths
- I can level up a magica sorc alt and play that. It takes less than a week to get enough skill points to get everything unlocked.

This has nothing to do with my post and was not what I was asking please come up with something more constructive and stay on topic in this thread.

The "light at the end of the tunnel" has more to do with your perspective, not ZOS trying to make you happy.

No it has to do with game balance and the future of the game considering I am spending my money on this game and other things they come up with in the shop it has everything to do with my happiness/enjoyment out of the game so you really need to rethink that statement anyways please stay on topic or I am going to block you.

DragonBound

Sigtric wrote: »

DragonBound wrote: »

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

To revert rampant, degrading, unbridled power creep that has accumulated unanswered over the years.

The changes are still imperfect, but they're a good start.

Interesting, I have kind of heard a smaller explanation of this, but why do so many disagree?

Because these 'rampant, degrading, unbridled power creep' causing changes made it really easy to play this game. Now they are trying to fix that and it's going to raise the difficulty level back to where it should have been in the first place. This makes people mad.

Way back, ESO overland had some pretty difficult areas. Now we can just smash our faces into the keyboard and win because of power creep.

We should indeed feel stronger after spending countless hours upgrading our characters, and honing our ability to play, but at the same time the game has been getting easier and easier to surf through content because of the ability to pump out really high DPS and practically ignore sustain.

TLDR the little kiddies got used to being fed ice cream for dinner every night and are now throwing a temper tantrum when it's going back to healthy meals.

You make a good point as I do find the game a bit to much on the easy side, but I am still confused as how this will give us more diversity and make the open world any more challenging any thoughts on that?

Sigtric

DragonBound wrote: »

Sigtric wrote: »

DragonBound wrote: »

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

To revert rampant, degrading, unbridled power creep that has accumulated unanswered over the years.

The changes are still imperfect, but they're a good start.

Interesting, I have kind of heard a smaller explanation of this, but why do so many disagree?

Because these 'rampant, degrading, unbridled power creep' causing changes made it really easy to play this game. Now they are trying to fix that and it's going to raise the difficulty level back to where it should have been in the first place. This makes people mad.

Way back, ESO overland had some pretty difficult areas. Now we can just smash our faces into the keyboard and win because of power creep.

We should indeed feel stronger after spending countless hours upgrading our characters, and honing our ability to play, but at the same time the game has been getting easier and easier to surf through content because of the ability to pump out really high DPS and practically ignore sustain.

TLDR the little kiddies got used to being fed ice cream for dinner every night and are now throwing a temper tantrum when it's going back to healthy meals.

You make a good point as I do find the game a bit to much on the easy side, but I am still confused as how this will give us more diversity and make the open world any more challenging any thoughts on that?

It will make the open world more challenging in that we will start to have to pay attention to our resources again (and top end damage done by player characters overall is going to go down because of it + other damage reducing nerfs in this patch and previous -- and probably going forward)

As for diversity, in a game like this, diversity only goes so far. As long as there is an ability to mix and match things to create an end result (skills + gear set bonuses + racials) there will always be one or two builds that shine, and diversity doesn't really exist if you're playing the minmax way. If you're not, then build diversity doesn't really change all that much.

LonePirate

DragonBound wrote: »

You make a good point as I do find the game a bit to much on the easy side, but I am still confused as how this will give us more diversity and make the open world any more challenging any thoughts on that?

If you think the game is too easy and you want a challenge, participate in PVP with a Magicka DK. Challenges aplenty await you!

Rohamad_Ali

Furniture sales will increase . There's a candle in the abyss .

lunalitetempler

DragonBound wrote: »

Alright so something very strange is going on, to me these changes seem fairly bad at the moment and not only because others are showing results in videos and such, just by reading the changes they are concerning. I cannot fathom why zos would want to drive players away, especially those who continue like me to spend money on cosmetics and more.

So logically there has to be a reason for this, I know all of you are intelligent and in no way are doing this because you do not know better, so maybe you could give us little bit of detail here what we will see at the end of this update? For example in what way will this create build diversity for trials and more?

Thank you for reading, and zos if your reading please give us a response we would greatly appreciate it.

Gamers any theories? Lets try to be optimistic as possible I want to see positive theories for once maybe there is something we are not seeing.

Do your self a favour and stop watching and following every YouTube's rage take on it. Think for your self.

Xvorg

Sigtric wrote: »

DragonBound wrote: »

Sigtric wrote: »

DragonBound wrote: »

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

To revert rampant, degrading, unbridled power creep that has accumulated unanswered over the years.

The changes are still imperfect, but they're a good start.

Interesting, I have kind of heard a smaller explanation of this, but why do so many disagree?

Because these 'rampant, degrading, unbridled power creep' causing changes made it really easy to play this game. Now they are trying to fix that and it's going to raise the difficulty level back to where it should have been in the first place. This makes people mad.

Way back, ESO overland had some pretty difficult areas. Now we can just smash our faces into the keyboard and win because of power creep.

We should indeed feel stronger after spending countless hours upgrading our characters, and honing our ability to play, but at the same time the game has been getting easier and easier to surf through content because of the ability to pump out really high DPS and practically ignore sustain.

TLDR the little kiddies got used to being fed ice cream for dinner every night and are now throwing a temper tantrum when it's going back to healthy meals.

You make a good point as I do find the game a bit to much on the easy side, but I am still confused as how this will give us more diversity and make the open world any more challenging any thoughts on that?

It will make the open world more challenging in that we will start to have to pay attention to our resources again (and top end damage done by player characters overall is going to go down because of it + other damage reducing nerfs in this patch and previous -- and probably going forward)

As for diversity, in a game like this, diversity only goes so far. As long as there is an ability to mix and match things to create an end result (skills + gear set bonuses + racials) there will always be one or two builds that shine, and diversity doesn't really exist if you're playing the minmax way. If you're not, then build diversity doesn't really change all that much.

There's no diversity.

On 1.5, sets were grouped into VR. You were not able to get a power creep using staff full heavt with a DK, because, for example, elegance did not escalated to max VR.

Now those sets do escalate max CP (160). The easiest solution to keep on being a power creep is to look for a set that increases dmg on heavy attacks/proc. No "serious" player is gonna pay atention to res management but they will put even moar dmg than on live.

The bars will be filled with buffs, debuffs and utilities. Maybe an execute...

DragonBound

lunalitetempler wrote: »

DragonBound wrote: »

Alright so something very strange is going on, to me these changes seem fairly bad at the moment and not only because others are showing results in videos and such, just by reading the changes they are concerning. I cannot fathom why zos would want to drive players away, especially those who continue like me to spend money on cosmetics and more.

So logically there has to be a reason for this, I know all of you are intelligent and in no way are doing this because you do not know better, so maybe you could give us little bit of detail here what we will see at the end of this update? For example in what way will this create build diversity for trials and more?

Thank you for reading, and zos if your reading please give us a response we would greatly appreciate it.

Gamers any theories? Lets try to be optimistic as possible I want to see positive theories for once maybe there is something we are not seeing.

Do your self a favour and stop watching and following every YouTube's rage take on it. Think for your self.

I do otherwise I would not be making this thread, otherwise I would have not read and the notes myself and came up with my own theories.

DragonBound

Sigtric wrote: »

DragonBound wrote: »

Sigtric wrote: »

DragonBound wrote: »

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

To revert rampant, degrading, unbridled power creep that has accumulated unanswered over the years.

The changes are still imperfect, but they're a good start.

Interesting, I have kind of heard a smaller explanation of this, but why do so many disagree?

Because these 'rampant, degrading, unbridled power creep' causing changes made it really easy to play this game. Now they are trying to fix that and it's going to raise the difficulty level back to where it should have been in the first place. This makes people mad.

Way back, ESO overland had some pretty difficult areas. Now we can just smash our faces into the keyboard and win because of power creep.

We should indeed feel stronger after spending countless hours upgrading our characters, and honing our ability to play, but at the same time the game has been getting easier and easier to surf through content because of the ability to pump out really high DPS and practically ignore sustain.

TLDR the little kiddies got used to being fed ice cream for dinner every night and are now throwing a temper tantrum when it's going back to healthy meals.

You make a good point as I do find the game a bit to much on the easy side, but I am still confused as how this will give us more diversity and make the open world any more challenging any thoughts on that?

It will make the open world more challenging in that we will start to have to pay attention to our resources again (and top end damage done by player characters overall is going to go down because of it + other damage reducing nerfs in this patch and previous -- and probably going forward)

As for diversity, in a game like this, diversity only goes so far. As long as there is an ability to mix and match things to create an end result (skills + gear set bonuses + racials) there will always be one or two builds that shine, and diversity doesn't really exist if you're playing the minmax way. If you're not, then build diversity doesn't really change all that much.

I agree but diversity can always be better as long there is not such a big gap between the builds if you get me.

Sugaroverdose

Sigtric wrote: »

DragonBound wrote: »

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

To revert rampant, degrading, unbridled power creep that has accumulated unanswered over the years.

The changes are still imperfect, but they're a good start.

Interesting, I have kind of heard a smaller explanation of this, but why do so many disagree?

Because these 'rampant, degrading, unbridled power creep' causing changes made it really easy to play this game. Now they are trying to fix that and it's going to raise the difficulty level back to where it should have been in the first place. This makes people mad.

Way back, ESO overland had some pretty difficult areas. Now we can just smash our faces into the keyboard and win because of power creep.

We should indeed feel stronger after spending countless hours upgrading our characters, and honing our ability to play, but at the same time the game has been getting easier and easier to surf through content because of the ability to pump out really high DPS and practically ignore sustain.

TLDR the little kiddies got used to being fed ice cream for dinner every night and are now throwing a temper tantrum when it's going back to healthy meals.

Totally agree, TLDR is pretty sharp

Glamdring

scorpiodog wrote: »

My main is a Stamina NB. I have some choices:
- I can boo hoo hoo and spend all my time campaigning on the forum to ruin the game for others

Letting ZoS know what their Changes are doing with the class/game is bad?

- I can just accept the limits of the class and enjoy the strengths

Strengths? getting into endgame trialgroups and pvpgroups with a stamnb is almost impossible

- I can level up a magica sorc alt and play that. It takes less than a week to get enough skill points to get everything unlocked.

So your advice is to lvl a new char and ditch your main that u spent years on? thats solution for you?

I would love to take time invested into something so lightly that you can just throw it away. but for me my time is precious.

scorpiodog

DragonBound wrote: »

scorpiodog wrote: »

DragonBound wrote: »

scorpiodog wrote: »

DragonBound wrote: »

Alright so something very strange is going on, to me these changes seem fairly bad at the moment and not only because others are showing results in videos and such, just by reading the changes they are concerning. I cannot fathom why zos would want to drive players away, especially those who continue like me to spend money on cosmetics and more.

So logically there has to be a reason for this, I know all of you are intelligent and in no way are doing this because you do not know better, so maybe you could give us little bit of detail here what we will see at the end of this update? For example in what way will this create build diversity for trials and more?

Thank you for reading, and zos if your reading please give us a response we would greatly appreciate it.

Gamers any theories? Lets try to be optimistic as possible I want to see positive theories for once maybe there is something we are not seeing.

You can always have fun if you want to. OR You can always be upset about changes if you want to.

It's a personal choice everyone makes if they see a change and want to get all upset about it or just roll with it.

My main is a Stamina NB. I have some choices:
- I can boo hoo hoo and spend all my time campaigning on the forum to ruin the game for others
- I can just accept the limits of the class and enjoy the strengths
- I can level up a magica sorc alt and play that. It takes less than a week to get enough skill points to get everything unlocked.

This has nothing to do with my post and was not what I was asking please come up with something more constructive and stay on topic in this thread.

The "light at the end of the tunnel" has more to do with your perspective, not ZOS trying to make you happy.

No it has to do with game balance and the future of the game considering I am spending my money on this game and other things they come up with in the shop it has everything to do with my happiness/enjoyment out of the game so you really need to rethink that statement anyways please stay on topic or I am going to block you.

There are millions of players. Everyone pays money and everyone has a different opinion on how to balance the game, and they want their preferred changes implemented immediately. One player's money is not more valuable than another player's money. ZOS has millions of paying customers - and since there are not a million people who regularly post on the forums - that means 99% of paying customers do not contribute to this forum. So while people reading this forum can see what 1% of the player base want, they are completely clueless about what the vast majority of paying customers want now and in the future. That is where a large marketing budget comes in where you have several full time people crunching the numbers on sales figures and participation - which your average forum contributor or streamer is completely clueless about.

Lots of people complaining about game imbalance on the forums actually just want to have an advantage over other players.

Explain this to me: why is it that every time there are new patch notes everyone is complaining like the world is going to end, but then when the new content is released I can't even swing a stick in any zone without hitting 5 other players? The same thing is going to be with Vardenfell - people are all upset but when it's released battlegrounds will be crowded, streamers will try to show how much they are wrecking and dominating over noobs or people who use CP as a crutch, mobs of players will be waiting for Vardenfell bosses to spawn, and by all measurable business matrices the release will be a success. This happens EVERY TIME.

You can block me if you want. I'm discussing the topic you created, but I'm not required to give you the exact answer you want to hear.

DragonBound

scorpiodog wrote: »

DragonBound wrote: »

scorpiodog wrote: »

DragonBound wrote: »

scorpiodog wrote: »

DragonBound wrote: »

Alright so something very strange is going on, to me these changes seem fairly bad at the moment and not only because others are showing results in videos and such, just by reading the changes they are concerning. I cannot fathom why zos would want to drive players away, especially those who continue like me to spend money on cosmetics and more.

So logically there has to be a reason for this, I know all of you are intelligent and in no way are doing this because you do not know better, so maybe you could give us little bit of detail here what we will see at the end of this update? For example in what way will this create build diversity for trials and more?

Thank you for reading, and zos if your reading please give us a response we would greatly appreciate it.

Gamers any theories? Lets try to be optimistic as possible I want to see positive theories for once maybe there is something we are not seeing.

You can always have fun if you want to. OR You can always be upset about changes if you want to.

It's a personal choice everyone makes if they see a change and want to get all upset about it or just roll with it.

My main is a Stamina NB. I have some choices:
- I can boo hoo hoo and spend all my time campaigning on the forum to ruin the game for others
- I can just accept the limits of the class and enjoy the strengths
- I can level up a magica sorc alt and play that. It takes less than a week to get enough skill points to get everything unlocked.

This has nothing to do with my post and was not what I was asking please come up with something more constructive and stay on topic in this thread.

The "light at the end of the tunnel" has more to do with your perspective, not ZOS trying to make you happy.

No it has to do with game balance and the future of the game considering I am spending my money on this game and other things they come up with in the shop it has everything to do with my happiness/enjoyment out of the game so you really need to rethink that statement anyways please stay on topic or I am going to block you.

There are millions of players. Everyone pays money and everyone has a different opinion on how to balance the game, and they want their preferred changes implemented immediately. One player's money is not more valuable than another player's money. ZOS has millions of paying customers - and since there are not a million people who regularly post on the forums - that means 99% of paying customers do not contribute to this forum. So while people reading this forum can see what 1% of the player base want, they are completely clueless about what the vast majority of paying customers want now and in the future. That is where a large marketing budget comes in where you have several full time people crunching the numbers on sales figures and participation - which your average forum contributor or streamer is completely clueless about.

Lots of people complaining about game imbalance on the forums actually just want to have an advantage over other players.

Explain this to me: why is it that every time there are new patch notes everyone is complaining like the world is going to end, but then when the new content is released I can't even swing a stick in any zone without hitting 5 other players? The same thing is going to be with Vardenfell - people are all upset but when it's released battlegrounds will be crowded, streamers will try to show how much they are wrecking and dominating over noobs or people who use CP as a crutch, mobs of players will be waiting for Vardenfell bosses to spawn, and by all measurable business matrices the release will be a success. This happens EVERY TIME.

You can block me if you want. I'm discussing the topic you created, but I'm not required to give you the exact answer you want to hear.

No I asked for theories as the end goal here not why you think players complained, I probably have been playing mmorpgs allot longer then you can I can tell you this is not as simple or black and white as people complaining for change. As far as having an advantage goes you really do not know much considering allot of people are complaining about pve and the fact some of these changes have to do with pvp, and tells me you really do not know much beyond your own bias and jumped to assumptions.

All you did was over explain something that does not need explaining, it is your opinion that is the situation and that is fine think what you want but we are here to discuss something else entirely and all your doing is being a hypocrite by complaining about while being off topic.

Sigtric

DragonBound wrote: »

Sigtric wrote: »

DragonBound wrote: »

Sigtric wrote: »

DragonBound wrote: »

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

To revert rampant, degrading, unbridled power creep that has accumulated unanswered over the years.

The changes are still imperfect, but they're a good start.

Interesting, I have kind of heard a smaller explanation of this, but why do so many disagree?

Because these 'rampant, degrading, unbridled power creep' causing changes made it really easy to play this game. Now they are trying to fix that and it's going to raise the difficulty level back to where it should have been in the first place. This makes people mad.

Way back, ESO overland had some pretty difficult areas. Now we can just smash our faces into the keyboard and win because of power creep.

We should indeed feel stronger after spending countless hours upgrading our characters, and honing our ability to play, but at the same time the game has been getting easier and easier to surf through content because of the ability to pump out really high DPS and practically ignore sustain.

TLDR the little kiddies got used to being fed ice cream for dinner every night and are now throwing a temper tantrum when it's going back to healthy meals.

You make a good point as I do find the game a bit to much on the easy side, but I am still confused as how this will give us more diversity and make the open world any more challenging any thoughts on that?

It will make the open world more challenging in that we will start to have to pay attention to our resources again (and top end damage done by player characters overall is going to go down because of it + other damage reducing nerfs in this patch and previous -- and probably going forward)

As for diversity, in a game like this, diversity only goes so far. As long as there is an ability to mix and match things to create an end result (skills + gear set bonuses + racials) there will always be one or two builds that shine, and diversity doesn't really exist if you're playing the minmax way. If you're not, then build diversity doesn't really change all that much.

I agree but diversity can always be better as long there is not such a big gap between the builds if you get me.

I get you but by the very design of the game, true build diversity can only exist in the mid tier. I don't even think anything could be changed to add diversity to the top tier. Those who strive for the best numbers by crunching numbers are always going to end up in more or less the same place.

Building for diversity has already lead to mid builds and will continue to.

DragonBound

Sigtric wrote: »

DragonBound wrote: »

Sigtric wrote: »

DragonBound wrote: »

Sigtric wrote: »

DragonBound wrote: »

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

To revert rampant, degrading, unbridled power creep that has accumulated unanswered over the years.

The changes are still imperfect, but they're a good start.

Interesting, I have kind of heard a smaller explanation of this, but why do so many disagree?

Because these 'rampant, degrading, unbridled power creep' causing changes made it really easy to play this game. Now they are trying to fix that and it's going to raise the difficulty level back to where it should have been in the first place. This makes people mad.

Way back, ESO overland had some pretty difficult areas. Now we can just smash our faces into the keyboard and win because of power creep.

We should indeed feel stronger after spending countless hours upgrading our characters, and honing our ability to play, but at the same time the game has been getting easier and easier to surf through content because of the ability to pump out really high DPS and practically ignore sustain.

TLDR the little kiddies got used to being fed ice cream for dinner every night and are now throwing a temper tantrum when it's going back to healthy meals.

You make a good point as I do find the game a bit to much on the easy side, but I am still confused as how this will give us more diversity and make the open world any more challenging any thoughts on that?

It will make the open world more challenging in that we will start to have to pay attention to our resources again (and top end damage done by player characters overall is going to go down because of it + other damage reducing nerfs in this patch and previous -- and probably going forward)

As for diversity, in a game like this, diversity only goes so far. As long as there is an ability to mix and match things to create an end result (skills + gear set bonuses + racials) there will always be one or two builds that shine, and diversity doesn't really exist if you're playing the minmax way. If you're not, then build diversity doesn't really change all that much.

I agree but diversity can always be better as long there is not such a big gap between the builds if you get me.

I get you but by the very design of the game, true build diversity can only exist in the mid tier. I don't even think anything could be changed to add diversity to the top tier. Those who strive for the best numbers by crunching numbers are always going to end up in more or less the same place.

Building for diversity has already lead to mid builds and will continue to.

I disagree I have played plenty of mmorpgs where diversity was closer with the meta regardless of number crunching as I said there is not need for a big gap.

Sigtric

DragonBound wrote: »

Sigtric wrote: »

DragonBound wrote: »

Sigtric wrote: »

DragonBound wrote: »

Sigtric wrote: »

DragonBound wrote: »

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

To revert rampant, degrading, unbridled power creep that has accumulated unanswered over the years.

The changes are still imperfect, but they're a good start.

Interesting, I have kind of heard a smaller explanation of this, but why do so many disagree?

Because these 'rampant, degrading, unbridled power creep' causing changes made it really easy to play this game. Now they are trying to fix that and it's going to raise the difficulty level back to where it should have been in the first place. This makes people mad.

Way back, ESO overland had some pretty difficult areas. Now we can just smash our faces into the keyboard and win because of power creep.

We should indeed feel stronger after spending countless hours upgrading our characters, and honing our ability to play, but at the same time the game has been getting easier and easier to surf through content because of the ability to pump out really high DPS and practically ignore sustain.

TLDR the little kiddies got used to being fed ice cream for dinner every night and are now throwing a temper tantrum when it's going back to healthy meals.

You make a good point as I do find the game a bit to much on the easy side, but I am still confused as how this will give us more diversity and make the open world any more challenging any thoughts on that?

It will make the open world more challenging in that we will start to have to pay attention to our resources again (and top end damage done by player characters overall is going to go down because of it + other damage reducing nerfs in this patch and previous -- and probably going forward)

As for diversity, in a game like this, diversity only goes so far. As long as there is an ability to mix and match things to create an end result (skills + gear set bonuses + racials) there will always be one or two builds that shine, and diversity doesn't really exist if you're playing the minmax way. If you're not, then build diversity doesn't really change all that much.

I agree but diversity can always be better as long there is not such a big gap between the builds if you get me.

I get you but by the very design of the game, true build diversity can only exist in the mid tier. I don't even think anything could be changed to add diversity to the top tier. Those who strive for the best numbers by crunching numbers are always going to end up in more or less the same place.

Building for diversity has already lead to mid builds and will continue to.

I disagree I have played plenty of mmorpgs where diversity was closer with the meta regardless of number crunching as I said there is not need for a big gap.

Other games sure, what I mean is this game, I don't know how they could achieve that with out fundamental character mechanic changes

DragonBound

Sigtric wrote: »

DragonBound wrote: »

Sigtric wrote: »

DragonBound wrote: »

Sigtric wrote: »

DragonBound wrote: »

Sigtric wrote: »

DragonBound wrote: »

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

To revert rampant, degrading, unbridled power creep that has accumulated unanswered over the years.

The changes are still imperfect, but they're a good start.

Interesting, I have kind of heard a smaller explanation of this, but why do so many disagree?

Because these 'rampant, degrading, unbridled power creep' causing changes made it really easy to play this game. Now they are trying to fix that and it's going to raise the difficulty level back to where it should have been in the first place. This makes people mad.

Way back, ESO overland had some pretty difficult areas. Now we can just smash our faces into the keyboard and win because of power creep.

We should indeed feel stronger after spending countless hours upgrading our characters, and honing our ability to play, but at the same time the game has been getting easier and easier to surf through content because of the ability to pump out really high DPS and practically ignore sustain.

TLDR the little kiddies got used to being fed ice cream for dinner every night and are now throwing a temper tantrum when it's going back to healthy meals.

You make a good point as I do find the game a bit to much on the easy side, but I am still confused as how this will give us more diversity and make the open world any more challenging any thoughts on that?

It will make the open world more challenging in that we will start to have to pay attention to our resources again (and top end damage done by player characters overall is going to go down because of it + other damage reducing nerfs in this patch and previous -- and probably going forward)

As for diversity, in a game like this, diversity only goes so far. As long as there is an ability to mix and match things to create an end result (skills + gear set bonuses + racials) there will always be one or two builds that shine, and diversity doesn't really exist if you're playing the minmax way. If you're not, then build diversity doesn't really change all that much.

I agree but diversity can always be better as long there is not such a big gap between the builds if you get me.

I get you but by the very design of the game, true build diversity can only exist in the mid tier. I don't even think anything could be changed to add diversity to the top tier. Those who strive for the best numbers by crunching numbers are always going to end up in more or less the same place.

Building for diversity has already lead to mid builds and will continue to.

I disagree I have played plenty of mmorpgs where diversity was closer with the meta regardless of number crunching as I said there is not need for a big gap.

Other games sure, what I mean is this game, I don't know how they could achieve that with out fundamental character mechanic changes

Well I am not suggesting classes go outside of main roles to much or anything.

Sugaroverdose

scorpiodog wrote: »

DragonBound wrote: »

scorpiodog wrote: »

DragonBound wrote: »

scorpiodog wrote: »

DragonBound wrote: »

Alright so something very strange is going on, to me these changes seem fairly bad at the moment and not only because others are showing results in videos and such, just by reading the changes they are concerning. I cannot fathom why zos would want to drive players away, especially those who continue like me to spend money on cosmetics and more.

So logically there has to be a reason for this, I know all of you are intelligent and in no way are doing this because you do not know better, so maybe you could give us little bit of detail here what we will see at the end of this update? For example in what way will this create build diversity for trials and more?

Thank you for reading, and zos if your reading please give us a response we would greatly appreciate it.

Gamers any theories? Lets try to be optimistic as possible I want to see positive theories for once maybe there is something we are not seeing.

You can always have fun if you want to. OR You can always be upset about changes if you want to.

It's a personal choice everyone makes if they see a change and want to get all upset about it or just roll with it.

My main is a Stamina NB. I have some choices:
- I can boo hoo hoo and spend all my time campaigning on the forum to ruin the game for others
- I can just accept the limits of the class and enjoy the strengths
- I can level up a magica sorc alt and play that. It takes less than a week to get enough skill points to get everything unlocked.

This has nothing to do with my post and was not what I was asking please come up with something more constructive and stay on topic in this thread.

The "light at the end of the tunnel" has more to do with your perspective, not ZOS trying to make you happy.

No it has to do with game balance and the future of the game considering I am spending my money on this game and other things they come up with in the shop it has everything to do with my happiness/enjoyment out of the game so you really need to rethink that statement anyways please stay on topic or I am going to block you.

There are millions of players. Everyone pays money and everyone has a different opinion on how to balance the game, and they want their preferred changes implemented immediately. One player's money is not more valuable than another player's money. ZOS has millions of paying customers - and since there are not a million people who regularly post on the forums - that means 99% of paying customers do not contribute to this forum. So while people reading this forum can see what 1% of the player base want, they are completely clueless about what the vast majority of paying customers want now and in the future. That is where a large marketing budget comes in where you have several full time people crunching the numbers on sales figures and participation - which your average forum contributor or streamer is completely clueless about.

Lots of people complaining about game imbalance on the forums actually just want to have an advantage over other players.

Explain this to me: why is it that every time there are new patch notes everyone is complaining like the world is going to end, but then when the new content is released I can't even swing a stick in any zone without hitting 5 other players? The same thing is going to be with Vardenfell - people are all upset but when it's released battlegrounds will be crowded, streamers will try to show how much they are wrecking and dominating over noobs or people who use CP as a crutch, mobs of players will be waiting for Vardenfell bosses to spawn, and by all measurable business matrices the release will be a success. This happens EVERY TIME.

You can block me if you want. I'm discussing the topic you created, but I'm not required to give you the exact answer you want to hear.

There are milions of players who bough game for around ~$4 who just want to run around and 'pew pew' also there's thousands of loyal players who does want it better and shame developers for every mistake.

First group will drop the game completely for any reason, second one will continue to support it. Numbers from sales doesn't matter because they are most definitely created less profit than loyal part of players and it seems like that ZoS also thinks like that.

Syrani

Personally, I think BUILD diversity is the wrong approach. I think CLASS diversity is what needs to be looked at. At the start of the game, it seems we tried to get a good mix of classes because they all had something to offer. We took NB's because Veil was useful. We took Sorcs for Negate, Templars were great healers plus had Nova, DK's were good tanks and had chains, etc. You wanted a good mix of classes so you could get the benefits of their unique abilities and buffs/debuffs. It was more about what each class brought to the group, instead of which class has the most DPS. Somewhere along the way, the usefulness of the unique class abilities gave way to pure damage. In order to make things more "diverse", I think this usefulness needs to be brought back.

For an example, on the Twins fight in vMoL, it is very beneficial to have mag DK's so they can chain the adds. In the old Hel Ra hardmode (back in the day, not now), it was beneficial to have sorcs and NB's for the Warrior fight so they could use negates and veils to reduce the damage we were taking, etc. Now, you just need to make sure that 4 people have Warhorn - a PVP ult that is not class specific.

WoW does class diversity pretty well in my opinion. In that game, CC during some fights was darn near mandatory, but only some classes had the right kind of CC abilities to where you can take an add out of a fight almost indefinitely. Warlocks had their portals that they could set up in an encounter area before the fight, and you could use this portal to teleport to another location. This was very handy to have in some situations. Some classes had bloodlust/heroism (similar to warhorn), while others didn't, so you would want to bring a class that had that buff. Different classes of healers healed differently - some were highly focused on HoTs, while others were more single target. Each class had different healing "cooldowns" (similar to ultimates), so you wanted to bring a mix of healing classes so that their healing styles would compliment each other.

I realize WoW has MANY more classes than ESO, but there has to be a way to make ESO classes more unique so that you want to bring a mix. In any case, I don't see how nerfing sustain makes anything more diverse.

spiiros

Mojmir wrote: »

cant have power creep if you have no population/competition

Lmaooooooo spot on.