I don't give a skeevers arse about pvp

Farorin

Why do the exclusive PVE players always act like they deserve a special privelage over everyone else, such as those that enjoy both PVE and PVP, and those that enjoy only PVP?

I always see the whole "Because there are more PVE players" not taking into account the fact that even most PVE players still enjoy a bit of PVP.

The changes aren't that bad, they'll make a few things harder, but there will be more re balances later that should sort that crud out.

DragonBound

Galwylin wrote: »

DragonBound wrote: »

Anyways lets not pretend that pvpers do not cry nerf everytime they lack the skill or outside the box thinking to counter a class just look at thief in guild wars 2, look at any stealth class in any mmorpg, they where hardly ever op and constantly get nerfed because of complainers and something similar is happening here.

That's my belief as well. I can't think of a single MMORPG with a rogue class that actually plays as a rouge. WoW turned theirs into top physical damage dealers I believe. They unlocked all the doors in EQ. Not a single PvEer I've seen has complained about being ganked by a nightblade. Even this discussion has the sorcerer in someone's sights.

I think PvP has a place but it shouldn't take up the majority of the developers time. Still, not all these nerfs are due to PvPers. At least not the general ones that affect every one.

Exactly lots of classes do not stay true to their game because of pvp cries.

DragonBound

Farorin wrote: »

Why do the exclusive PVE players always act like they deserve a special privelage over everyone else, such as those that enjoy both PVE and PVP, and those that enjoy only PVP?

I always see the whole "Because there are more PVE players" not taking into account the fact that even most PVE players still enjoy a bit of PVP.

The changes aren't that bad, they'll make a few things harder, but there will be more re balances later that should sort that crud out.

No one is asking for special privilege people are asking for a different approach in balancing for pvp, why do pvpers get special treatment? See how easily this can be turned around? Clearly one suffers because of the other as of right now it is mostly due to pvp balance.

Banana

Agree. It's a toilet where your forced go to get vigor and caltrops.

Buffler

Banana wrote: »

Agree. It's a toilet where your forced go to get vigor and caltrops.

WOW, it takes an hour in PVP to get vigor. Us pvp players have to run pve content 100's of times to get stuff we can pvp with. Dont moan about being forced to do things with me!

laksikus

Why are you crying again?
What changes this patch are made cos of pvp?

Cost reduction is cos of pve.
Class changes is cos of pve.

Heavy armor nerf is cos of pvp but doesnt hurt tanks in pve
Cost increase poison nerf is from pvp but which pve Player uses them?


Changes from the past.
No Regen while blocking - pve
Streak/dodge increase - pvp, no pve Player uses them
Templer Spear nerf - pve, that one really hurts pvp templar
Proc Sets - pve and pvp, they were overperforming in both, now you actually have to use skills

Tommy_The_Gun

aliyavana wrote: »

So why should pvp affect my pve? L2 balance the two seperately zos...

I really don't know... ZOS has proven us that when they want - they can balance it out...
http://elderscrollsonline.wiki.fextralife.com/Teleport+Strike
NB Teleport Strike skill has different affect on NPCs / Mobs and different on Players:
"If the target is a player, they are briefly snared instead of stunned."

As far as I know only 2 - 3 skills in the entire game have that "feature"... And this is just weird...

hmsdragonfly

aliyavana wrote: »

So why should pvp affect my pve? L2 balance the two seperately zos...

And screw all the players who do both.

ZOS's choice.

hmsdragonfly

DragonBound wrote: »

Farorin wrote: »

Why do the exclusive PVE players always act like they deserve a special privelage over everyone else, such as those that enjoy both PVE and PVP, and those that enjoy only PVP?

I always see the whole "Because there are more PVE players" not taking into account the fact that even most PVE players still enjoy a bit of PVP.

The changes aren't that bad, they'll make a few things harder, but there will be more re balances later that should sort that crud out.

No one is asking for special privilege people are asking for a different approach in balancing for pvp, why do pvpers get special treatment? See how easily this can be turned around? Clearly one suffers because of the other as of right now it is mostly due to pvp balance.

> "why do pvpers get special treatment"
> Cyrodiil has been broken for 3 years
> there has been 1 PvP + PvE DLC (IC) and 4 purely PvE DLCs.
> oh well?

hmsdragonfly

Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »

aliyavana wrote: »

So why should pvp affect my pve? L2 balance the two seperately zos...

I really don't know... ZOS has proven us that when they want - they can balance it out...

NB Teleport Strike skill has different affect on NPCs / Mobs and different on Players:
"If the target is a player, they are briefly snared instead of stunned."

As far as I know only 2 - 3 skills in the entire game have that "feature"... And this is just weird...

A few skills acting differently is fine, some minor changes like less healing, less damage are fine, because the game still feels the same. The gameplay mechanic is still the same (as in, dodge roll fatigue is the same, CC immunity is the same etc). Sustain is the same. But a complete separation is not fine. I don't want every single ability of mine to act differently in PvP compared to PvE, no one can remember all those. I don't want to do okay in PvE overland but run out of resources in 3 seconds in PvP with the same gear.

Rjizzle09

The whole issue lies in people coming to the forums to cry about something they died to in pvp. Now granted some things NEED a nerf but most of the time its cause youre either bad or cant counter. Its like nightblades people used to cry about them i never did i just pretty much prepared to get stunned and killed at any given moment and just went on with my business lmao Also im tored of people saying that 99% of the population cant do vet trials vmsa and the likes i mean omg the stuff isnt that hard you being casual has nothing to do with it. Ive played with many casuals who absolutely smashed content cause they worked at it the issue is most plp just want it to be so easy and get stuff handed to them and in before someone sayd " i dont have time" i have a full life with a very demanding job and i STILL find time to play also age osnt an issue i know plenty 40+ players that are beasts. People need to have a higher expectation of themselves and you cant and wont try to get better in this game then why are you here??? Just go play an easier game and stop trying to nerf this one to your levels

FlyLionel

laksikus wrote: »

FlyLionel wrote: »

They clearly said they do not want to seperate the two on ESO LIVE, which means either type up more threads on the forums literally forcing them to do that rehaul, or promote better balance and strap on your seatbelt. Who knows, someone may get fired if Morrowind does not go exactly as planned. It sucks yo..liking the buff to NB siphon strikes and spear shards, no brainer.

Where is there a buff for siphoning strikes? And where spear shards?

You don't watch ESO LIVE do you?

laksikus

FlyLionel wrote: »

laksikus wrote: »

FlyLionel wrote: »

They clearly said they do not want to seperate the two on ESO LIVE, which means either type up more threads on the forums literally forcing them to do that rehaul, or promote better balance and strap on your seatbelt. Who knows, someone may get fired if Morrowind does not go exactly as planned. It sucks yo..liking the buff to NB siphon strikes and spear shards, no brainer.

Where is there a buff for siphoning strikes? And where spear shards?

You don't watch ESO LIVE do you?

I dont but i know of the changes.
Siphoning is not a buff, its another nerf for people that dont let it Run out. And spears is only a buff to tanks, and still a heavy nerf to be the same as orbs

FlyLionel

laksikus wrote: »

Why are you crying again?
What changes this patch are made cos of pvp?

Cost reduction is cos of pve.
Class changes is cos of pve.

Heavy armor nerf is cos of pve but doesnt hurt tanks in pve
Cost increase poison nerf is from pvp but which pve Player uses them?


Changes from the past.
No Regen while blocking - pve
Streak/dodge increase - pvp, no pve Player uses them
Templer Spear nerf - pve, that one really hurts pvp templar
Proc Sets - pve and pvp, they were overperforming in both, now you actually have to use skills

Infinite sustain builds in the entire game = PVE/PVP

Not being able to kill someone in heavy armour= pvp (Why would heavy armour be nerfed in pve literally ignoring what's pvp? What game do you play? Or do you just not have a tank that you use in endgame pve to come to a real conclusion?)
no regen while blocking initially was for PVE but imagine how allowing regen while blocking would affect PVP?...Right PVE/PVP
Spear is fine now, stay updated on eso live(Wrobel said ontop of giving someone their main resource back it will also give half of the other resource, whilst buffing necrotic for a universal balance.)
proc sets are going to be used more than ever in Morrowind(free damage).

Stop pointing fingers and get facts straightened out, they wanted a massive re-haul to both PVP/PVE no cp, cp styles. Why would they release CP versions of BGs with the current state of live? Is PVP that balanced that literally no changes were made directly? If cost reduction was still here PVP would 100% without a doubt continue to be Heavy over all=competitive wise. Maybe still true if you use three cost reduction but who knows.

@laksikus

amasuriel

TequilaFire wrote: »

Some people just can't get it through their skulls that even if PvP didn't exist these nerfs would be happening.
But hey makes a another drama thread.

In some cases this is true, in some cases it's not. I 100% guarantee the nerfs to the constitution passive and changing block so it triggers cost every .25 seconds instead of .5 was wholly PvP motivated. Tanks getting resources back (constitution) or being able to perma block more easily (block cost) is simply not an issue in PvE.

Sustain changes in general it's harder to tell for sure, but given that ZOS knows the completion rates for vAA and vHRC HM and vMOL are very tiny, I find it tough to believe it's mostly PvE related. vFG1 will still be easy with a heavy attack build, but vMOL will be be completed by an even smaller number of people now, like probably less than 100 in PC/NA.

strikeback1247

I think we need to build a wall between PvE and PvP

wazzz56

Betheny wrote: »

Buffler wrote: »

In general, those that hate pvp suck at it.

A good pvp player can do all pve content.
A good pve player does not always make a good pvp'er

*laughs*

You people, always so confrontational and aggressive.

I think the game would be better off without PVP and all the PVPers, things could get back to progression again, which RPG games are actually supposed to be about.

Begone wretches.

lmao , confrontational and aggressive? did you even read your post? no confrontation or aggression in it at all lol

amasuriel

Farorin wrote: »

Why do the exclusive PVE players always act like they deserve a special privelage over everyone else, such as those that enjoy both PVE and PVP, and those that enjoy only PVP?

I always see the whole "Because there are more PVE players" not taking into account the fact that even most PVE players still enjoy a bit of PVP.

The changes aren't that bad, they'll make a few things harder, but there will be more re balances later that should sort that crud out.

Because it's very frustrating to have a fun aspect of the game made less fun because of something you don't care about. Lot's of people PvP, and ZOS should make sure PvP is fun too. Unfortunately, they seem incapable of doing so without making PvE less fun, and more people are PvE only, vs a mix or PvP only, so it's natural to see a lot of angst on the forums related to PvE getting worse.

And yes, PvE is getting worse. The blocking and constitution passives will make tanking even more boring for example, because tanks will no longer have resources to do things like run Powerful Assault and buff / off heal with Vigor. Certain already hard fights like vAA axes will be harder, but not in a more fun way, because you will have no options. It will literally be about using as few abilities as possible to conserve stamina for taunting and blocking...sounds fun right?

laksikus

@FlyLionel Not sure what you want to say here. I told all the "Why do pvp changes affect my pve" just that its mostly The other way around. Deal with it and stop crying, they wont separate them

Heavy armor nerf is mostly a pvp nerf. Tanks in pve dont use that passive that much. Unlike people who are in BR

You will still be able to have infinite sustain in pvp. I play Azura and im fine, as are my guildies. Its mostly about endgame pve where you did max damage till now without having to worry about sustain at all, which is totally Wrong, you shouldn't be able to sustain max dps. Its not balanced.

No Regen was a PvE change as you said. And its fine in pvp Too, but was done for pve.

Spear is NOT fine. It was the only good CC templars had. Gap close is useless and and javelin can be blocked really easy. You are better off using drain instead now.
And the give half Part on second Ressource back is only good for tanks. Nearly no DD or healer needs his secondary ressource unless blocking and even then base regen is fine. And I

And I doubt proc Sets will outdps heavy attack Builds.

Im fine with the changes to cp in pve and pvp so i dont know Why you try to point a Finger at me now. I dont even care about CP pvp, but it will be better after The change for sure

FlyLionel

laksikus wrote: »

@FlyLionel Not sure what you want to say here. I told all the "Why do pvp changes affect my pve" just that its mostly The other way around. Deal with it and stop crying, they wont separate them

Heavy armor nerf is mostly a pvp nerf. Tanks in pve dont use that passive that much. Unlike people who are in BR

You will still be able to have infinite sustain in pvp. I play Azura and im fine, as are my guildies. Its mostly about endgame pve where you did max damage till now without having to worry about sustain at all, which is totally Wrong, you shouldn't be able to sustain max dps. Its not balanced.

No Regen was a PvE change as you said. And its fine in pvp Too, but was done for pve.

Spear is NOT fine. It was the only good CC templars had. Gap close is useless and and javelin can be blocked really easy. You are better off using drain instead now.
And the give half Part on second Ressource back is only good for tanks. Nearly no DD or healer needs his secondary ressource unless blocking and even then base regen is fine. And I

And I doubt proc Sets will outdps heavy attack Builds.

Im fine with the changes to cp in pve and pvp so i dont know Why you try to point a Finger at me now. I dont even care about CP pvp, but it will be better after The change for sure

@laksikus

"Heavy armor nerf is cos of pve but doesnt hurt tanks in pve" to "Heavy armor nerf is mostly a pvp nerf. Tanks in pve dont use that passive that much. Unlike people who are in BR"

Yeah for the record i'm not picking on you or anything I'm not debating you on the "Why do pvp changes affect my pve" I agree with you 100% it's not like that at all, it's both. I'm just pointing out that you said heavy armour got nerfed because of PVE(nope), and in reality is affects both; mostly hurting pvp(which is good; heavy armour without a drop off in damage is bad, so spec into sustain). "What changes this patch are made cos of pvp?" You asked and I answered.

You will always be able to have infinite sustain is you spec for it=next patch your damage will be nothing big....but proc sets*** proc sets in pvp WILL out dps heavy attack builds. Viper/Tremor/Veli/Skoria(on a dot heavy attack build on magdk..rip). Whether that's good or bad it up to whomever, and I think spear is fine. Majority of Temps in Cyro are vampire, you already have the best healing/utility in the game so just use invigorating drain outside your class. Some classes don't have major mending; purge on automatic; some classes don't have unblockable CC's. Maybe just give the blazing spear morph the CC with the dot tick greater than the other morph without giving it the extra restore on your secondary resource? All i'm saying is that it IS fine. And come on..secondary resource back is only good for tanks(the main consumers of shards..+1)? I know you're entitled to your opinion and all but if you're in light armour on a magic character with no stamina, you're delusional if someone doesn't need it. And that's the pve spectrum, absolutely everyone wants this in pvp..so yeah, Zos did good there.

laksikus

@FlyLionel

oh then i understand you, i typed it on phone should have said pvp on the first post^^
but as you see i wrote pvp on the second xD

TequilaFire

Funny thread, caustic PvE player responses from the usual forum star grabbers.
I thought we were supposed to be the horrible ones.
There is PvP in this game, get over it, You knew that when you bought the game.
No one disagrees PvP and PvE should be balanced separately.
But stop trying to blame players because it isn't.

FlyLionel

laksikus wrote: »

@FlyLionel

oh then i understand you, i typed it on phone should have said pvp on the first post^^
but as you see i wrote pvp on the second xD

@laksikus Okay well to the real issue at hand here, in small group play in pvp what do you want in your group?

Magic warden/Temp/DK
Stam NB/Sorc

And for trials I think it's safe to say it'll still be magicka over all..unless caltrops is op.

Shadow_Viper_vX

For perspective

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/340831/i-dont-give-a-skeevers-arse-about-pve#latest

laksikus

FlyLionel wrote: »

laksikus wrote: »

@FlyLionel

oh then i understand you, i typed it on phone should have said pvp on the first post^^
but as you see i wrote pvp on the second xD

@laksikus Okay well to the real issue at hand here, in small group play in pvp what do you want in your group?

Magic warden/Temp/DK
Stam NB/Sorc

And for trials I think it's safe to say it'll still be magicka over all..unless caltrops is op.

in the new patch?

depends on how bug small groups is for you.
for 4-5men
1 mag nb, 1 templar healer, 1 tankier char and one sorc.

mag nb will be great for support with the new taunt debuff set. range taunt them and sneak away

In slightly bigger groups of 8-10
1 dk with fasalla, 1 sorc for encase spam, another sorc to have at 2 negates, 2 templar with healing ults, 1 healer warden for healing debuff. 1 nb for fear, and rest destro ult chars

Iyas

I don't give a skeevers arse about pvp. So why should pve affect my pvp? L2 balance the two seperately zos..

You know that most nerfes are because how pve is performing. But its easier to blame PvP for that

timidobserver

Stovahkiin wrote: »

Browiseth wrote: »

i'm going to assume you're talking about the nerfs to sustain. has it maybe occured to you that the nerfs to sustain are intended to balance pve as well?

no, of course it hasn't, because you're likely only concerned with what makes the game easier for you. these changes are a llong time coming, and quite frankly it's about time players will actually have to invest into their character's sustain in order to sustain well

i apologise if i'm making assumptions here, but you haven't specified what changes you're upset about so

A lot of people just like to blame everything on the PvP crowd because.. why not I guess? Apparently just because there aren't quite as many of us PvPers we should get blamed for all nerfs, as well as that PVE should apparently always get priority over PvP (it already does, like, it's not even a comparison).

People also keep saying that the PvP crowd is too toxic. Firstly, that is only a half truth, and secondly, what does that have to do with balance in any way?

Sometimes PvP gets blamed for stuff that isn't it's fault, but honestly, some things are the fault of PvP.

For example, the Magician cp passive used to be universally useful to everyone. Now it has been changed to be PvP only. If balance were separate, that CP passive would still have some kind of PvE function. So, PvE effectively lost a potential CP passive for the sake of PvP balance.

laksikus

timidobserver wrote: »

Stovahkiin wrote: »

Browiseth wrote: »

i'm going to assume you're talking about the nerfs to sustain. has it maybe occured to you that the nerfs to sustain are intended to balance pve as well?

no, of course it hasn't, because you're likely only concerned with what makes the game easier for you. these changes are a llong time coming, and quite frankly it's about time players will actually have to invest into their character's sustain in order to sustain well

i apologise if i'm making assumptions here, but you haven't specified what changes you're upset about so

A lot of people just like to blame everything on the PvP crowd because.. why not I guess? Apparently just because there aren't quite as many of us PvPers we should get blamed for all nerfs, as well as that PVE should apparently always get priority over PvP (it already does, like, it's not even a comparison).

People also keep saying that the PvP crowd is too toxic. Firstly, that is only a half truth, and secondly, what does that have to do with balance in any way?

Sometimes PvP gets blamed for stuff that isn't it's fault, but honestly, some things are the fault of PvP.

For example, the Magician cp passive used to be universally useful to everyone. Now it has been changed to be PvP only. If balance were separate, that CP passive would still have some kind of PvE function. So, PvE effectively lost a potential CP passive for the sake of PvP balance.

wrong.
it wasnt for the sake of pvp balance that magician got removed. Sustain was too much in PVE aswell, so dont push that ones fault to pvp.
there are several cp that are only used in pve or pvp so it doesnt matter, nobody cried about them till now, so no valid point from you

timidobserver

laksikus wrote: »

timidobserver wrote: »

Stovahkiin wrote: »

Browiseth wrote: »

i'm going to assume you're talking about the nerfs to sustain. has it maybe occured to you that the nerfs to sustain are intended to balance pve as well?

no, of course it hasn't, because you're likely only concerned with what makes the game easier for you. these changes are a llong time coming, and quite frankly it's about time players will actually have to invest into their character's sustain in order to sustain well

i apologise if i'm making assumptions here, but you haven't specified what changes you're upset about so

A lot of people just like to blame everything on the PvP crowd because.. why not I guess? Apparently just because there aren't quite as many of us PvPers we should get blamed for all nerfs, as well as that PVE should apparently always get priority over PvP (it already does, like, it's not even a comparison).

People also keep saying that the PvP crowd is too toxic. Firstly, that is only a half truth, and secondly, what does that have to do with balance in any way?

Sometimes PvP gets blamed for stuff that isn't it's fault, but honestly, some things are the fault of PvP.

For example, the Magician cp passive used to be universally useful to everyone. Now it has been changed to be PvP only. If balance were separate, that CP passive would still have some kind of PvE function. So, PvE effectively lost a potential CP passive for the sake of PvP balance.

wrong.
it wasnt for the sake of pvp balance that magician got removed. Sustain was too much in PVE aswell, so dont push that ones fault to pvp.
there are several cp that are only used in pve or pvp so it doesnt matter, nobody cried about them till now, so no valid point from you

I didn't say it was removed form the sake of PvP balance. I said it was replaced with a PvP only passive for the sake of PvP balance. If the environments were separate, it would have been replaced with a PvP and PvE version.

TL;DR I am discussing the replacement not the removal.

laksikus

then what cp would you have made instead of it? something that benefits both and doesnt have anything to do with damage or resistance?