I don't give a skeevers arse about pvp

leepalmer95

Quigster wrote: »

Zvorgin wrote: »

These threads are pointless because they ignore the fact PvE is broken and needs fixing because there is too much sustain. <snip>

Too much sustain for who?
Again we see the attempt to apply a situation to the entire PVE player base. So all PVE players have zero sustain problems? I have sustain issues on some of my characters. So do many people in the circle of friends I see.

This is the real issue: Why apply a game-wide nerf to all vet players when only some of those players have no sustain issues? Or perhaps I should ask this question instead: since this a game, and I (possibly along with some others) play this game for fun and relaxation, how are these changes going to improve my enjoyment of the game?

If people are capable of doing the most intense end game pve, e.g. Vet maw without sustain issues then people shouldn't have any in other parts of the game.

Runschei

I both pvp and pve, but for pvp I like to stick around in Azura as I don't want to keep changing my CP every god damn time. Make pvp and pve different things!!!

Ch4mpTW

Quigster wrote: »

Zvorgin wrote: »

These threads are pointless because they ignore the fact PvE is broken and needs fixing because there is too much sustain. <snip>

Too much sustain for who?
Again we see the attempt to apply a situation to the entire PVE player base. So all PVE players have zero sustain problems? I have sustain issues on some of my characters. So do many people in the circle of friends I see.

This is the real issue: Why apply a game-wide nerf to all vet players when only some of those players have no sustain issues? Or perhaps I should ask this question instead: since this a game, and I (possibly along with some others) play this game for fun and relaxation, how are these changes going to improve my enjoyment of the game?

Quoted for truth. Simply quoted for truth.

Tholian1

Quigster wrote: »

Zvorgin wrote: »

These threads are pointless because they ignore the fact PvE is broken and needs fixing because there is too much sustain. <snip>

Too much sustain for who?
Again we see the attempt to apply a situation to the entire PVE player base. So all PVE players have zero sustain problems? I have sustain issues on some of my characters. So do many people in the circle of friends I see.

This is the real issue: Why apply a game-wide nerf to all vet players when only some of those players have no sustain issues? Or perhaps I should ask this question instead: since this a game, and I (possibly along with some others) play this game for fun and relaxation, how are these changes going to improve my enjoyment of the game?

I have sustain issues too.

It shouldn't take long for ZOS to get enough data to see if the changes to sustain causes players to complete more or less of the content. Unfortunately, we will have to wait until after the patch goes live. I am not confident that enough average players are testing things on the PTS and giving feedback.

Sometimes it seems like the whole "raising the floor" bit, actually means you have to climb to even reach the floor.

Ch4mpTW

Tholian1 wrote: »

Quigster wrote: »

Zvorgin wrote: »

These threads are pointless because they ignore the fact PvE is broken and needs fixing because there is too much sustain. <snip>

Too much sustain for who?
Again we see the attempt to apply a situation to the entire PVE player base. So all PVE players have zero sustain problems? I have sustain issues on some of my characters. So do many people in the circle of friends I see.

This is the real issue: Why apply a game-wide nerf to all vet players when only some of those players have no sustain issues? Or perhaps I should ask this question instead: since this a game, and I (possibly along with some others) play this game for fun and relaxation, how are these changes going to improve my enjoyment of the game?

I have sustain issues too.

It shouldn't take long for ZOS to get enough data to see if the changes to sustain causes players to complete more or less of the content. Unfortunately, we will have to wait until after the patch goes live. I am not confident that enough average players are testing things on the PTS and giving feedback.

Sometimes it seems like the whole "raising the floor" bit, actually means you have to climb to even reach the floor.

I think anyone who's done a veteran trial has experienced sustain issues before. To simply think that just because the task at hand is in a PvE environment, that sustain issues don't exist, is foolish. It doesn't make sense. In fact, they could see this for themselves in an activity such as Maelstrom Arena (veteran).

laksikus

The cp nerfs are good. Giving Too much sustain in pve and pvp.
No matter how much you complain about it, it needed to be done. Cp System is crap anyway.

But Class sustain shouldn't have been touched. That never was a problem.

Grunim

Malic wrote: »

Everyone of you ungrateful rubes should be forced to play on a retro server pre craglorn and level to VR6.

Yes, you will have to pick your face up off the keyboard.

Thank the Divines I reached VR1 a few days before Craglorn came out and could zerg the Craglorn anomaly bosses to level up. There's no way I would have had the chops to make it to VR6 without Craglorn zerging. I'm glad they reduced difficulty in the game from how it originally was, they had to do that, most people I know from the early days didn't enjoy how tough those fights were and left.

I suppose now they are just trying to make things it a bit more difficult than how it's been this past year or so without going back to early 2014 difficulty levels.

ofSunhold

SydneyGrey wrote: »

Stovahkiin wrote: »

Of course the word "nerf" gets thrown around in pvp typically more than PVE. When you're doing group content in PVE, you want your team to be as good as possible. Whereas in pvp, the imbalances are much more noticeable when certain classes and builds do way better than others overall. Do you guys not understand that?

Yes, we understand just fine. Don't care. They need to balance them separately, if it's possible for them to do it. It's impossible to balance PvP without screwing PvE up royally. They keep trying it, though. Since most players do PvE, they're messing up the games of the majority of their customers in an attempt to balance PvP.
I mean, PvPers need love, too, but not at the expense of everybody else. The best compromise would be to find a way to balance them separately.

I PvP, and I assure you: I am also getting screwed. I'm not happy, and I don't get the sense there's a wave of contentment in Cyrodiil.

One streamer who's delighted he'll be able to kill the templars who hurt him? Yeah, I've seen that guy. He doesn't speak for me.

Doctordarkspawn

MaximusDargus wrote: »

Full agree

#PVEvsPVPsegregation

I am absolutely certain we need to make this a forum signature hashtag.

Iluvrien

I don't think the issue is PvE vs. PvP, but I do think it is "Competitive" vs. "Casual".

The people who push the envelope in either arena are to blame for the nerfs. In both cases people are driven to optimize/break the mechanics of the game by the nature of the content itself. As soon as they are competing, people will start to look for every edge.

Don't nerf the general game, change the way end-game PvE and PvP work.

Vaoh

LegacyDM wrote: »

Zvorgin wrote: »

These threads are pointless because they ignore the fact PvE is broken and needs fixing because there is too much sustain. Tanks and healers aren't even necessary in a lot of vet dungeons which is an issue. Overland content is a complete joke as are normal and quite a few vet dungeons. The PvE in this game is mindlessly easy other than a few isolated spots.

The 1% who do absolute end game PvE will still be able to. Also, a lot of people PvP and PvE and don't think PvE is peachy like the OP.

Try telling that to the pug groups struggling on a daily basis trying to get through vet dungeons. I'm sure your well oiled elite uber cp +700 guild mates can get through any vet dungeon with a yawn but for pugs and casuals this game is not easy mode.

Rather than nerfing the players just adjust the content or introduce harder content. Buff the content not nerf the players. I liked my armor sets, cp allocation, skills, rotation, and etc. when they do these stupid nerfs now we all have to start from scratch.

They keep moving the goal posts and changing the baselines. It's insulting, infuriating, and frustrating. Rather than lower the baseline just increase the difficulty!

I developed a play style that was fun. Nerfing it makes me want to quit. Forcing more micromanagement makes me want to quit.

^^^^

As part of the 1%, 0.1%, or "elite" since people refer to it differently, I have completed vMoL HM countless times now as well as other Vet trials.

The way the sustain is being changed won't necessarily make things more difficult for playersat the highest level of endgame PvE. Those who aren't at that level, who barely can progress in vMoL, vMA, vet dungeons, etc - these people will feel the nerf the most.

Here's a suggestion ZOS: Players LIKE how the game feels with high sustain. Feel free to keep the Champion System changes (most people agree these were great), but un-nerf everything else.

Provide more difficult content instead of nerfing the players. Give the bosses you've developed for the new trial an extra mechanic + 5M health or something.

I don't want to play a game where my sole purpose is placing DoTs+Heavy Attack for max DPS. It's disgustingly boring. So many endgame PvEers are legit quitting with Morrowind already and it's sad

notimetocare

Ch4mpTW wrote: »

aliyavana wrote: »

So why should pvp affect my pve? L2 balance the two seperately zos...

I don't know if it's viewed as obvious now, but I truly can't stand the impact PvP has had on PvE. And what upsets me further, is how the developers still refuse to acknowledge the fact that the 2 can't co-exist. They refuse to acknowledge that the game can't be balanced around the 2 mingling together, and won't go about separating them. I'm sick and tired of: Classes, skills, and races being nerfed due to them being viewed as "too strong" in a player versus player environment. It's getting old. And fast. Every single time I turn around, this and that is being hit, because it is "overperforming" in Cyrodiil.

It also doesn't help that on average, PvP houses more toxic players than PvE. Even though, PvP has a smaller crowd than that of PvE. I don't know if it's because of the competitive atmosphere or what, but it's just not an overall enjoyable experience. At least for me, and many others that I've spoken to about it.

Except many of the changes are intended for pve as well... People are seriously stupid...

Sneaky-Snurr

"ZoS omg I don't care about PvP just take solely my opinion which is laden with biasedness because I'm a special snowflake and I come once in every winter!"

Integral1900

Pvp is a nessesary inconvenience, without it all those angry shouty types would be running round pve instead, it's worth adapting to a nerf or to for that isn't it

FlyLionel

They clearly said they do not want to seperate the two on ESO LIVE, which means either type up more threads on the forums literally forcing them to do that rehaul, or promote better balance and strap on your seatbelt. Who knows, someone may get fired if Morrowind does not go exactly as planned. It sucks yo..liking the buff to NB siphon strikes and spear shards, no brainer.

laksikus

FlyLionel wrote: »

They clearly said they do not want to seperate the two on ESO LIVE, which means either type up more threads on the forums literally forcing them to do that rehaul, or promote better balance and strap on your seatbelt. Who knows, someone may get fired if Morrowind does not go exactly as planned. It sucks yo..liking the buff to NB siphon strikes and spear shards, no brainer.

Where is there a buff for siphoning strikes? And where spear shards?

Keep_Door

Well i dont care about your opinion so.... what now ?

GreenhaloX

aliyavana wrote: »

So why should pvp affect my pve? L2 balance the two seperately zos...

I agree. PvP isn't for me either..

waterfairy

leepalmer95 wrote: »

Quigster wrote: »

Zvorgin wrote: »

These threads are pointless because they ignore the fact PvE is broken and needs fixing because there is too much sustain. <snip>

Too much sustain for who?
Again we see the attempt to apply a situation to the entire PVE player base. So all PVE players have zero sustain problems? I have sustain issues on some of my characters. So do many people in the circle of friends I see.

This is the real issue: Why apply a game-wide nerf to all vet players when only some of those players have no sustain issues? Or perhaps I should ask this question instead: since this a game, and I (possibly along with some others) play this game for fun and relaxation, how are these changes going to improve my enjoyment of the game?

If people are capable of doing the most intense end game pve, e.g. Vet maw without sustain issues then people shouldn't have any in other parts of the game.

Or apply nerfs to everyone entering vmol, vma, vet dungeons etc. Instead of nerfing everyone in every mode

visionality

Just imagine the ***-storm this forum would see if NPCs could complain. You would never see the end of posts on cancer-builds, unlimited ressources, totally OP damage, out-of-control healing, uncounterable abilities etc etc etc

The incoming change is ALL about PVE, guys. Stop blaming the poor PVPers for fixes to PVE imbalances!

Gandrhulf_Harbard

Malic wrote: »

Everyone of you ungrateful rubes should be forced to play on a retro server pre craglorn and level to VR6.

Yes, you will have to pick your face up off the keyboard.

Yeah, did that.

PvP still needs to be separate from PvP.

All The best

Jamascus

laksikus wrote: »

FlyLionel wrote: »

They clearly said they do not want to seperate the two on ESO LIVE, which means either type up more threads on the forums literally forcing them to do that rehaul, or promote better balance and strap on your seatbelt. Who knows, someone may get fired if Morrowind does not go exactly as planned. It sucks yo..liking the buff to NB siphon strikes and spear shards, no brainer.

Where is there a buff for siphoning strikes? And where spear shards?

On eso live Friday they stated shards was getting a different patch on Monday. It really isn't a buff since they nerfed it to start with but it will now restore your primary resource stat and part of your secondary instead of just your primary. They also mentioned siphoning strikes but I don't recall what they said, check the pts patch notes Monday.

pattyLtd

I understand the point pf view of them regarding pve and pvp tbh.
I think alot could be accomplished by simply slíght changes to a few skills or set bonusses in pvp would be enought to improve lots of things.

The biggest problem is they have a tendency to go way overboard.
The CP changes are most likely more then enough too make sustain choices matter again but no they are insecure and want to make sure everyone runs out of resources so they nerf it all to oblivion.

If the top 1% will have trouble sustaining lesser skilled players like me and most other will have massive issues to the point of not having fun and when that happens people will quit and often never come back eventually that will kill the game i am affraid.

Jitterbug

LegacyDM wrote: »

back in the docia days

t3hdubzy

We should rid the game of pve and focus solely on pvp

Ch4mpTW

t3hdubzy wrote: »

We should rid the game of pve and focus solely on pvp

And have the entire game be a mess filled with: Non-functioning doors, gap-closing into blue screens, infinite load screens out of nowhere, etc.? I'm pretty sure the undaunted skill line is more important than the alliance war skill line. That undaunted mettle holds more weight than vigor all things considered. Or caltrops. I'd even say warhorn. Nice try though.

Lieblingsjunge

How do you justify going 100% damage with little, to no sustain, and still being able to complete any content? Just because things are overpowered in PvP, doesn't mean they're not overpowered in PvE as well.

Look at magsorcs. They excell at both. They're overpowered in both aspects of the game.

Getting rid of the heavy-full-out damage set-ups is good imo. If you can't sustain BSW + Julianos, well then, go a sustain set and problem would be solved. I don't get why it's such an issue swapping one dps-set out with a sustain set. Or go 2 recovery glyphs instead of 3 spell damage.

TequilaFire

Integral1900 wrote: »

Pvp is a nessesary inconvenience, without it all those angry shouty types would be running round pve instead, it's worth adapting to a nerf or to for that isn't it

News flash they already are, they are called PvE players that make threads like these.
The focus of the dislike of the Morrowind nerfs should be placed where it belongs on the developers.

Stovahkiin

Ch4mpTW wrote: »

t3hdubzy wrote: »

We should rid the game of pve and focus solely on pvp

And have the entire game be a mess filled with: Non-functioning doors, gap-closing into blue screens, infinite load screens out of nowhere, etc.? I'm pretty sure the undaunted skill line is more important than the alliance war skill line. That undaunted mettle holds more weight than vigor all things considered. Or caltrops. I'd even say warhorn. Nice try though.

Whoa, way to take that way too seriously

Ch4mpTW

Lieblingsjunge wrote: »

How do you justify going 100% damage with little, to no sustain, and still being able to complete any content? Just because things are overpowered in PvP, doesn't mean they're not overpowered in PvE as well.

Look at magsorcs. They excell at both. They're overpowered in both aspects of the game.

Getting rid of the heavy-full-out damage set-ups is good imo. If you can't sustain BSW + Julianos, well then, go a sustain set and problem would be solved. I don't get why it's such an issue swapping one dps-set out with a sustain set. Or go 2 recovery glyphs instead of 3 spell damage.

Here's the problem with that. It takes sky high damage to get a lot of these trials done. You can't waltz in with high sustain as a damage dealer, and expect to clear the content at hand. It's not going to happen. This is because there are "DPS Checks" in the content at hand. Whether it be enrage mechanics, or a mechanic that wipes the group if such and such isn't killed in a set amount of time.

For example... If you go into VMoL with a group consisting of damage dealers set for sustaining their damage more so than burst damage — you're not going to beat the first boss. This is because of the shield phases that are incorporated, as well as the pillars that must be considered. 1 of 2 things are going to happen. You're either going to run out of pillars, or you're going to get wiped at the shield phase. It's that simple. But let's say that for practical purposes, you somehow complete that boss with all your DD's built for sustain. What are you going to do on the second bosses? The longer the fight drags on, the more adds you have to deal with. And from first-hand experiences, it's not as easy as it looks chaining 4 and 5 adds. 5 and more usually resulting in a wipe regardless (under most circumstances).

But wait. Maybe VMoL is too extreme of an example. Let's look at VAA. Lol. Can't kill the second to last boss with your entire group build on sustain, because the summoned clones will explode. Thus wiping the group. And even then if you somehow manage to do that, on the last boss you'll wipe. Longer the fight drags on, the more reflections you have to deal with. There's also the fact that the tank(s) will have to deal with more axes. And I'm pretty sure next patch tanks holding 5 or more axes individually won't be a thing. I could be wrong, but I doubt it. And even then if you do, what are you doing at execute? Nothing. Nothing but getting wiped. See what I mean?