Nightblade in Morrowind - suggestions v2

getemshauna

THIS TOPIC HAS BEEN COPIED FROM CLOSED BETA FORUM

Hi again! This time I want to expand my previous thread.

I’ve acquainted myself with Morrowind patch notes and also visited PTS to check how these changes look like in practice. I will talk mostly about NIGHTBLADES in this thread. I will not talk about current issues on the live server that I already described in details in my previous topic.
First of all - Thank you ZOS for including my modest person in the Morrowind Closed Beta. I will try to give my best and leave some feedback here.

1# NIGHTBLADE IN GROUP PVE

As we know, Nightblade as it is struggles with effective damage dealing in comparison to other classes like Sorcerer, or DragonKnight. It went in the right direction in 3.0.0 patch, due to Major Slayer release. Sets like War Machine or Master Architect will definitely make us more viable, due to low ultimate cost (Death Stroke and morphs). I don't know if it's intended or maybe it's a step to bring Nightblades back into group PvE - But if it is, I really appreciate this. ZOS' guys – it’s an amazing way to make us more significant. Unfortunately, the game in terms of end-game pve has created a meta, where every class finds itself in a specific role. DragonKnight is a best tank, templar - healer, Sorcerer - DPS, Warden - off-tank/off-healer. And here is the question - what's the role for a Nightblade, as ranged dps we are outdamaged by Sorcs, as melee we are outdamaged by DragonKnights. Sets like War Machine, scale amazingly with us, and on top of that we can now benefit two other allies. This gave me an idea.
It’s a great opportunity to bring Nightblades into end-game PvE as a support-DPS. If we can't compete with Sorcs in damage output, let us make allies stronger by abilities based on DPS. I have a few suggestions, I'll list them below.

2# NIGHTBLADE IN PVP

Nightblade is incredibly weak in PvP, and insanely strong at the same time. The reason is simple - if we want to build him as duelist - he will struggle fighting other classes. If we will build him as a Bomber, you can become Emperor in a few days. You can also go easiest route - ganking - what in my opinion definitely needs a rework. Why is ganking toxic at current state? The reason is simple - you don't have enough time to react, Nightblade with that build doesn't need anything except DMG. Sustain and defense is not needed - your point is killing your target in a 0.1 s. I have also a few suggestions how to make it more balanced, I'll explain everything below in the "Skill changes suggestions".

3# NIGHTBLADE IN A SOLO CONTENT

We were insanely strong here, due to Siphoning Strikes, and great selfheal. It's gonna fadeout soon probably, but personally I think Siphoner-class type should be still decent in that kind of content.

4# Skill reworks - Why, and how?

Let's take a look at Nightblade's skills. A few changes could bring Nightblade into group PvE as a fully viable dd, and balance in PvP.

a) Mark Target[Expose an enemy's weaknesses to afflict them with Major Fracture and Major Breach, reducing their Physical Resistance and Spell Resistance by 5280 for 20 seconds. When a marked enemy dies, you heal for 40% of your Max Health. You can only have one Mark Target active at a time.

MORPH 1#: Piercing Mark - Ability has increased duration (27 sec), and you can see the target if they use stealth or invisibility.

MORPH 2#: Reaping Mark - If the marked target dies, you heal for more (57%) and gain Major Berserk, increasing your damage done.

It's a really well designed skill - looks awesome and brings great debuffs. But unfortunately - it is not used nowadays due to a few reasons. In PvP, it's a great counter to the Nightblades with Shadow Cloak spam (Piercing Mark), and in PvE (Reaping Mark) is very useful on trash fights. But the Major Breach and Major Fracture aren’t really necessary here - if you decide to play Magicka Nightblade in PvP, you prefer to use Elemental Drain - which grants you also resources.
As a Stamina Nightblade, Surprise attack grants Major Fracture also. As a tank in PvE - you use taunt anyway. Because this skills design is focused on assassination-game style, let's make it viable in this category.
I completely agree that GankBlade ruins the fun of playing a bit - because it is almost impossible to counter it. So changes to the Stealth attack nerf are fully justified. But how to make GankBlades more viable and possible to counter? Give victims a time to react. This skill can help in that case. Make this skill necessary to successful ganks.

SUGGESTION:

MORPH 1# Piercing Mark:
Expose an enemy’s weaknesses, making them vulnerable, your next Heavy or Light Attack damage against Marked enemy will be increased by 40%.
You can detect marked enemies even if they use stealth or invisibility, and when a marked enemy dies, you heal yourself for 40% of your Max Health.

DESCRIPTION:

Ganks based on heavy attacks. As a stamina (bow) and magicka (destruction staff) game-style. It will increase your DMG as a ganker, and also will give a time to your victim to react (Shield, maybe dodge roll). I think it is totally fair for both sides. Also - skill doesn't lose its viability against Cloak-spammers.

SUGGESTION:

MORPH 2# Reaping Mark:
If the marked target dies, you gain Major Berserk, increasing your damage done. Also, marked enemy takes 5% more damage from all attacks coming from Nightblade, and 3% more damage from all attacks coming from other sources.

DESCRIPTION:

This morph could find its place also in PvP, and PvE. Making enemy vulnerable to all attacks can help killing really heavy armoured players, and in PvE - could make a Nightblade a great support DPS class. With War Machine or Master Architect sets, NB could be finally needed in group PvE – as it is now we don’t see many Nightblades on trial Leaderboards.
Also, it can help Nightblades in roles like Healer or Tank in small group PvE.

b) Grim Focus


Build up deadly momentum to gain Minor Berserk, increasing your damage done by 8% for 20 seconds.
While active, hitting an enemy with 4 Light or Heavy Attacks changes this ability into Assassin’s Will, allowing
you to fire a single shot from a spectral bow at an enemy to deal Magic Damage.

MORPH 1#: Relentless Focus - Converts into a Stamina ability and deals Disease Damage. Grants Minor Enduranc,
increasing your Stamina Recovery.

MORPH 2#: Merciless Resolve - The spectral bow deals more damage and snares the enemy (actually slows, tooltip is wrong)

It’s a Skill with great, interesting mechanic. In terms of PvP it's insanely strong due to Minor Berserk and burst
potential, but in PvE, where sustained damage plays a more important role, this skill is actually a DPS loss, since it needs to be casted twice.

SUGGESTION FOR BOTH MORPHS:

How to change that skill for better PvE results, without taking away its potential in PvP? In PvE, we should shoot it away instantly, and recast skill, to make it ready in next rotation. In PvP, we are charging it and waiting for an opportunity to burst down our target. So:

Build up deadly momentum to gain Minor Berserk, increasing your damage done by 8% for 20 seconds.
While active, hitting an enemy with 4-7 Light or Heavy Attacks changes this ability into Assassin’s Will/Assasin's
scourge, allowing you to fire a single shot from a spectral bow at an enemy to deal x damage. Ability is ready to
release after 4 light or heavy attacks, but every next light or heavy attack increases damage of Spectral bow,
stacking up to 8 times. Shooting spectral bow automatically refreshes this ability.

To not make this ability too overpowered, below is my suggestion:
Let's say then, base damage of this skill is 1.00, after 4 light attacks right now.

4 Light or heavy attacks - 0.90 damage
5 Light or heavy attacks - 0.95 damage
6 Light or heavy attacks - 1.00 damage
7 Light or heavy attacks - 1.05 damage
8 Light or heavy attacks - 1.10 damage

I think this change can make players of both contents happy - in terms of PvP - you'll gain a bit higher burst, if preparing ability long enough. PvE players will get less DMG after 4 attacks, same DMG after 6 attacks, and it solves the biggest problem of refreshing this ability.

c) Path of Darkness
Create a corridor of shadows, dealing [x] Magic Damage to enemies in the target area every 1 second for 10 seconds.
While on the path and for up to 2 seconds after leaving it, you gain Major Expedition increasing your Movement
Speed 30%.


MORPH 1#: Twisting Path - Path effects a larget conal area and deals more damage.

MORPH 2#: Refreshing path - Path also heals you and your allies.

This ability is really interesting. Due to Dark Veil passive, duration becomes very weird (11.5s) and damage
spreads over it. This ability doesn't do enough damage compared to, for example, Liquid
Lightning, and is also pretty tedious due to the duration of NB’s other abilities (8 sec).

SUGGESTIONS:
Path of Darkness: Create a corridor of shadows, dealing [x] Magic Damage to enemies in the target area every 1
second for 7 seconds.
While on the path and for up to 2 seconds after leaving it, you gain Minor Expedition increasing your Movement
Speed by 10%.

As you see - I suggested a change from Major Expedition to Minor expedition, and duration nerf to 6 seconds and here’s why:
First of all - We got Major Expedition already in Crippling Grasp - so it's not stackable, and have in mind that in
99% of situations we got both of skills in our arsenal. So actually – it would be a buff, and a nerf at same time. We
will get less uptime of Major Expedition - but we can also connect Minor, and Major expedition to get even more
Movement speed.
What about reducing the duration to 7 seconds? We are going to get more DPS this way, and this ability will be more
synced with Crippling Grasp and Elemental Blockade. Here’s why:
Dark Veil increases the duration by 15%. If the duration is 10 seconds, multiplying it 1.15 gives us 11.5 sec. That doesn’t make sense. If the base duration would be 7 seconds, multiplying it by 1.15 gives 8.05 sec, which is almost equal to 8 sec, which makes this ability fit very well in rotation. How we gain DPS then?
Let's say, it deals 1000 damage per second, for 10 seconds. It gives us 10 000 damage per full duration. Now - we
divide it by 7 seconds, which gives us 1428 damage per second. And it's almost equal to the Liquid Lightning tooltip
damage, which also is 2 seconds longer! I am mostly a PvE player, but I don't want to be selfish right now. If Twisting Path can be also affected by this change - let's talk about the Refreshing Path morph.

MORPH 1#: Twisting Path

Nothing more to say - it's great at current state, can just be affected by changes by base morph (Dmg increased and
radius)

MORPH 2#: Refreshing path

Yes, MagBlade in PvP lacks good selfheal. It can be improved due to Siphoning Attacks ability suggested by ZOS
Staff, but remember - light attacks can be dodgeable, and also heal is halved. We also don't have burst heal like
Templar or DK, so there is my suggestion.

Refreshing Path: Create a corridor of shadows, dealing [x] Magic Damage to enemies in the target area every 1
second for 8 seconds. (1 second duration increase)
While on the path and for up to 2 seconds after leaving it, you gain Minor Expedition increasing your Movement
Speed 10%. After 2 seconds staying in Refreshing Path - you gain Minor Mending, increasing your healing done by 8%.
Leaving the Path removes it immediately.

Okay - We lost Major Expedition here, we also lost ~2 seconds of duration but - we could gain Minor Mending which is a great idea to help survivability in PvP, also helps Nightblade Healers in PvE. This buff is strongly conditioned - you
need to stay 2 seconds in the path, and during it you can be easily countered for pushing you back by skills like
Wrecking Blow of Destructive Clench. Highly defensive morph.

It's ofcourse only a meme. We everyone know, that Shades don't steal buffs!


d) Summon Shade
Summon a shade version of yourself to attack an enemy and fight your side for 15 seconds.
The shade’s attacks deal Magic Damage and afflict the enemy with Minor Maim, reducing their damage by 15% for 4
seconds.
MORPH #1: Dark Shades - Summon 2 shades instead of one.
MORPH #2: Shadow Image - Summon a ranged shade instead which deals more damage, and you can activate the ability again to teleport to it.

I want to talk only about the first morph here - because the Shadow Image is a perfectly designed ability. Dark
Shades actually has little value - Minor Maim in PvP we get from Mass Hysteria, and DMG of the Shades is insignificant. I am convinced that every magicka Nightblade prefers to choose the second morph in PvP - due to the outplay potential. Why not make this morph a fully viable both-bar pet, similar to Sorcerers' abilities?

SUGGESTION:
MORPH 1#: Dark Shades
Summon 2 shades version of yourself to attack an enemy and fight your side. The shades' attacks deal magic damage.
Once summoned, you can activate the shades' special ability, causing your shades to expose vulnerability of your
target, debuffing it by Minor Fracture and Minor Breach, reducing it Physical Resistance and Spell resistance by
1320 for 6 seconds. Shades' damage scales with your maximum Magicka or Maximum Stamina, whichever is higher value.

Again - it could make a Nightblade a great support DPS, because Power of the Light is the only source of Minor Breach and Minor Fracture. Scaling shades' dmg with Stamina also, can make it also viable on Stamina Nightblade, which is lacking DMG abilities. Also - to prevent this ability of being too strong, I suggest make shades' base damage a moderate amount. In terms of PvP this ability wouldn't be that strong - required slotting on both bars, and Minor Fracture and Minor Breach aren't greatly sought after in that content.

e) Siphoning Attacks

About this ability, I see really great suggestions in the topic below:
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/336539/proposed-alternative-to-the-siphoning-attacks-leeching-strikes-changes-and-why#latest
I would like only to add, that Minor Defile can be a bit too stronger in connection with Major Defile from Death
Stroke and Morphs, but it is only my humble opinion.
Also - because NBs are known for great resource management - I'd like to buff slightly this ability, to put a smile
on Nightblades' players face again, cause it's our most loved ability!

I hope you will like my suggestions, let's brainstorm some more!
Greetings, and have nice day, gethemshauna.

NightbladeMechanics

Piercing Mark:
Your addition will make zero difference in the game.

Reaper's Mark:
Interesting. Won't work in PvE since multiple players can't mark the same target, limiting raids to one nb dps per group. Allowing multiple marks to stack isn't practical because of purging in PvP. Your suggested change isn't necessary in PvP -- nightblade isn't lacking damage -- but would be interesting. Reaper's is already core for bombers, but this would give other play styles a reason to choose Reaper's I guess..

Overall if it isn't broken, don't fix it imo.

Grim Focus:
Very interesting letting the damage stack higher with more light attacks. Calculate the point where 2 global cooldowns per merciless proc is a breakeven compared to refreshing blockade or cripple, and you'll have a tooltip value to shoot for with merciless. I fear that might be very high for PvP.

Making Grim Focus refresh upon firing the proc is an awful idea mechanically, and I've explained why in so many threads... TLDR it'll be frags minus the rng. No. Uuugh I'm so tired of this suggestion.

Grim focus does not need the .1 second channel on the proc, though.

Relentless focus needs to deal more damage imo.

Path:
Did you know the duration of Shadow Barrier is 11 seconds while wearing 7 heavy? Path's duration is intended to be a hair longer than that. Feel free to advocate duration changes to Twisting for pve dps, but don't nerf Refreshing. That duration is important for PvP.

The change to Minor Expedition is no good. Not everyone uses cripple or double take in PvP. Our bars are very competitive there.

The Minor Mending change is interesting. Someone suggested adding that to Siphoning Attacks recently I think... I don't know if this would be balanced honestly. Mageblade doesn't lack healing. It would be great class utility, though.

Summon Shades:
Will see zero use in PvP or PvE if you require it to be double barred. Absolutely none. Just make the second shade apply those debuffs or Minor Vulnerability passively while the first applies Minor Maim. That's been suggested multiple times in other threads, as well as reactivating the ability to port to the shades, into melee range of their target.

Siphoning Attacks:
Needs to retain dual resource return. The heal is nice but does not make up for losing the stam sustain. These forums are full of threads on that subject with many ideas, but my preference is having Leeching Strikes heal and apply an offensive debuff of some kind, and retaining Siphoning Attacks as the dual resource sustain morph. Both would be desirable.

Still reading.

getemshauna

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/336539/proposed-alternative-to-the-siphoning-attacks-leeching-strikes-changes-and-why#latest - Thread about Siphoning attacks change, I put it also at the end of the post (edited)

getemshauna

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

Piercing Mark:
Your addition will make zero difference in the game.

Reaper's Mark:
Interesting. Won't work in PvE since multiple players can't mark the same target, limiting raids to one nb dps per group. Allowing multiple marks to stack isn't practical because of purging in PvP. Your suggested change isn't necessary in PvP -- nightblade isn't lacking damage -- but would be interesting. Reaper's is already core for bombers, but this would give other play styles a reason to choose Reaper's I guess..

Overall if it isn't broken, don't fix it imo.

Grim Focus:
Very interesting letting the damage stack higher with more light attacks. Calculate the point where 2 global cooldowns per merciless proc is a breakeven compared to refreshing blockade or cripple, and you'll have a tooltip value to shoot for with merciless. I fear that might be very high for PvP.

Making Grim Focus refresh upon firing the proc is an awful idea mechanically, and I've explained why in so many threads... TLDR it'll be frags minus the rng. No. Uuugh I'm so tired of this suggestion.

Still reading.

Suggestion about Merciless Resolve refresh after the shot it's ofcourse simple solution, different one can be increase the duration of skill, and let it proc Assasin's Will multiple times over the whole duration. Skill is serious problem in terms of PvE and IMHO should be solved as fast as possible. Thanks for reading and leaving anwser.

About path: I think you speak about shadow barrier, not dark veil passive. You missed two different passives, or just don't know correctly the things what I am talking about. I hope it's first option.
Edit: Now I understand. But in same situation Twisting Path is the only ground dot in Nb's arsenal, and it lacks a lot of dps. Also it doesn't fit completly with other abilities, so best way is just making Twisting Path pure Dps ability with proper duration and better dmg, and save duration of refreshing path for tanks and pvp content. Every single Nb will be happy. Thanks for explaining this issue.

I don't see nerf in the Refreshing Path case. You will gain Minor Mending and more damage for 2 second less duration. I don't feel taking away Major Expidition from Refreshing path is necessary, but we can't get something for nothing. We got different sources of Major Expidition, but no access to Minor Mending, that's why I suggested that change.

NightbladeMechanics

gethemshauna wrote: »

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

Piercing Mark:
Your addition will make zero difference in the game.

Reaper's Mark:
Interesting. Won't work in PvE since multiple players can't mark the same target, limiting raids to one nb dps per group. Allowing multiple marks to stack isn't practical because of purging in PvP. Your suggested change isn't necessary in PvP -- nightblade isn't lacking damage -- but would be interesting. Reaper's is already core for bombers, but this would give other play styles a reason to choose Reaper's I guess..

Overall if it isn't broken, don't fix it imo.

Grim Focus:
Very interesting letting the damage stack higher with more light attacks. Calculate the point where 2 global cooldowns per merciless proc is a breakeven compared to refreshing blockade or cripple, and you'll have a tooltip value to shoot for with merciless. I fear that might be very high for PvP.

Making Grim Focus refresh upon firing the proc is an awful idea mechanically, and I've explained why in so many threads... TLDR it'll be frags minus the rng. No. Uuugh I'm so tired of this suggestion.

Still reading.

Suggestion about Merciless Resolve refresh after the shot it's ofcourse simple solution, different one can be increase the duration of skill, and let it proc Assasin's Will multiple times over the whole duration. Skill is serious problem in terms of PvE and IMHO should be solved as fast as possible. Thanks for reading and leaving anwser.

I acknowledge that, but the recast is a vital PvP mechanic. It places a damper on mageblade aggressive momentum, and it defines the play patterns of many mageblade build archetypes. Without the recast, merciless would function identically to crystal frag normalized for its rng proc chance.

I think I'm done adding material to my comment up there. lol Thanks for the thoughtful post. My overall response is that it's written from a PvE perspective and needs PvP feedback to be balanced, and that many changes aren't necessary or addressing vital issues within the class. You suggested changes for many popular skills while ignoring unused ones like soul siphon and agony.

getemshauna

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

gethemshauna wrote: »

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

Piercing Mark:
Your addition will make zero difference in the game.

Reaper's Mark:
Interesting. Won't work in PvE since multiple players can't mark the same target, limiting raids to one nb dps per group. Allowing multiple marks to stack isn't practical because of purging in PvP. Your suggested change isn't necessary in PvP -- nightblade isn't lacking damage -- but would be interesting. Reaper's is already core for bombers, but this would give other play styles a reason to choose Reaper's I guess..

Overall if it isn't broken, don't fix it imo.

Grim Focus:
Very interesting letting the damage stack higher with more light attacks. Calculate the point where 2 global cooldowns per merciless proc is a breakeven compared to refreshing blockade or cripple, and you'll have a tooltip value to shoot for with merciless. I fear that might be very high for PvP.

Making Grim Focus refresh upon firing the proc is an awful idea mechanically, and I've explained why in so many threads... TLDR it'll be frags minus the rng. No. Uuugh I'm so tired of this suggestion.

Still reading.

Suggestion about Merciless Resolve refresh after the shot it's ofcourse simple solution, different one can be increase the duration of skill, and let it proc Assasin's Will multiple times over the whole duration. Skill is serious problem in terms of PvE and IMHO should be solved as fast as possible. Thanks for reading and leaving anwser.

I acknowledge that, but the recast is a vital PvP mechanic. It places a damper on mageblade aggressive momentum, and it defines the play patterns of many mageblade build archetypes. Without the recast, merciless would function identically to crystal frag normalized for its rng proc chance.

I think I'm done adding material to my comment up there. lol Thanks for the thoughtful post. My overall response is that it's written from a PvE perspective and needs PvP feedback to be balanced, and that many changes aren't necessary or addressing vital issues within the class. You suggested changes for many popular skills while ignoring unused ones like soul siphon and agony.

About higher post: making merciless dmg stronger in terms of damage can make this ability too strong in pvp.
It is gonna be similiar to frags, but I think the effects what these abilities grant are very different (slow vs knockback, minor berserk, possibility to throw few frags in a row, etc)

Thats why I wrote about brainstorm, put your suggest here about Soul Siphon (what in my opinion is strong and balanced), and Agony. Every feedback is valuable, I made this thread from my perspective, but I am willing to hear different suggestions.

About Shades: Double slotted Shades in my opinion will find their use in PvE. It can be kind of regular DMG source, debuff for team, and it can make sets like Necropotence usable.

NightbladeMechanics

gethemshauna wrote: »

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

Piercing Mark:
Your addition will make zero difference in the game.

Reaper's Mark:
Interesting. Won't work in PvE since multiple players can't mark the same target, limiting raids to one nb dps per group. Allowing multiple marks to stack isn't practical because of purging in PvP. Your suggested change isn't necessary in PvP -- nightblade isn't lacking damage -- but would be interesting. Reaper's is already core for bombers, but this would give other play styles a reason to choose Reaper's I guess..

Overall if it isn't broken, don't fix it imo.

Grim Focus:
Very interesting letting the damage stack higher with more light attacks. Calculate the point where 2 global cooldowns per merciless proc is a breakeven compared to refreshing blockade or cripple, and you'll have a tooltip value to shoot for with merciless. I fear that might be very high for PvP.

Making Grim Focus refresh upon firing the proc is an awful idea mechanically, and I've explained why in so many threads... TLDR it'll be frags minus the rng. No. Uuugh I'm so tired of this suggestion.

Still reading.

About path: I think you speak about shadow barrier, not dark veil passive. You missed two different passives, or just don't know correctly the things what I am talking about. I hope it's first option.
Edit: Now I understand. But in same situation Twisting Path is the only ground dot in Nb's arsenal, and it lacks a lot of dps. Also it doesn't fit completly with other abilities, so best way is just making Twisting Path pure Dps ability with proper duration and better dmg, and save duration of refreshing path for tanks and pvp content. Every single Nb will be happy. Thanks for explaining this issue.

I don't see nerf in the Refreshing Path case. You will gain Minor Mending and more damage for 2 second less duration. I don't feel taking away Major Expidition from Refreshing path is necessary, but we can't get something for nothing. We got different sources of Major Expidition, but no access to Minor Mending, that's why I suggested that change.

Yes I was talking about shadow barrier to point out one reasoning behind the skill's duration.

I'm all for tweaking twisting path to make it into a competitive pve dps tool as long as it doesn't overperform in PvP. I'd also support changes to summon shades and morphs of agony.

I'm not an advocate of degrading unique class mechanics, like removing the recast on grim focus, though. Let's look elsewhere for sources of additional dps.

And refreshing path is an important source of mobility for some play styles of magicka nightblade. The class relies on mobility. It has 3 sources of Major Expedition so that players can access the buff in most play styles and bar setups. Minor Mending would be nice, but mageblade healing is already strong. I would trade path's Major Expedition for snare and root removal and immunity on double take, for example, because we really suffer against soft ccs. I can't get behind reducing the class's mobility outright, though.