Shields shouldn't stack, and recasting them shouldn't refresh

Merlin13KAGL

Xvorg wrote: »

You should start playing other classes instead of coming here to dimiss other's opinions that look for class balance. Because that was we were promised BALANCE.

No nerfs to sorcs, but nerfs to the other 3 classes = NO BALANCE

This is seriously your line of thinking?

Must suck when you get a flat tire - feeling obligated to slash the other three instead of just swapping it out with the spare?

Most changes to the other classes involved changing % stat based returns into character level (thus flat rate, at max CP) returns. Sorc passives were already flat rate.

Juhasow wrote: »

Akimbro wrote: »

Then under your premise shouldn't dots do the same then? Not being able to reapply them before they expire??

Yes ! Also heals shouldnt heal You until enenmie will take off amount HP that was healed. Balllllllanseee

So, you shouldn't be able to heal yourself when you're at full health when you don't need to heal yourself?

Or you shouldn't be able to heal yourself for more than the missing damage, which you can't, because at that point you're already at max health?

You're either joking, confused, or there is some subtlety I'm missing...

Berenhir

OP idea is as good and balanced as making block reduce healing received by 75% and rendering the char unable to perform any skill or action for 5 seconds after dodge rolling.

Dear Lord, please grant me the ability to punch people in the face using standard TCP/IP!

Waffennacht

Berenhir wrote: »

Dear Lord, please grant me the ability to punch people in the face!

Now that's a prayer! Lmfao

Xvorg

IzakiBrotherSs wrote: »

Xvorg wrote: »

Xvorg wrote: »

IzakiBrotherSs wrote: »

Xvorg wrote: »

IzakiBrotherSs wrote: »

Xvorg wrote: »

grim_tactics wrote: »

dwemer_paleologist wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

Silly simply silly,

Obviously doing both would be Overkill, but that's what you want isn't it?

what's "Overkill" is the ability to cast those shields like that constantly and survive large groups of people attacking you in pvp and also pve.
it is overpowered.

What about spamming Ambush or Fear? That's not OP?

What fear? That skill is dead for stamblades, there's no way to use it anymore

U crazy bro? Fear is a dead skill? Its the best CC in the game.

How much does fear cost for a stamblade? Were's the way to recover MAGICKA to cast it reliable? Because without SS, theres no way it's gonna be a reliable skill.

It is a great skill, but in a class that has no way to convert stam into magicka, is nearly useless

You still have recovery you know. I have under 900 magicka recovery and don't use SA on live and I have 0 problems fearing, cloaking or using shadow image when needed.

How many points in CP recovery? magicka pool size? HA or medium? Gear?

@IzakiBrotherSs I'm going to assume it's HA... well, bad news, constitution is gonna be nerfed next patch.

@Xvorg Heavy armor stamblade? That's an insult.

6 medium 1 heavy. DW/2H.

Then how do you get 900 magicka regen on a 6 pieces medium? Amberplasm (doubt it)? willow's? Pelinal's? permafrost? wyrd tree? food?

llSRRll

People who make these stupid post about shield stacking have obviously never played a Magsorc. Even with shield stacking bad Magsorcs die pretty fast. Love how most of the complainers are NB's who expect to one shot everything under the sun.

Rilmarshim

So many triggered sorcs here lmao

PainfulFAFA

Leave shields as is but let shields be damaged by Dots and crit attacks... boom balanced

Waffennacht

PainfulFAFA wrote: »

Leave shields as is but let shields be damaged by Dots and crit attacks... boom balanced

.... They are damaged by dots...

Then the whole thread is about how...OMG nvm...

thankyourat

I still don't think shield stacking is all that op. I feel some of the sustain sets that allow sorcs to keep them up permanently are op, and harness magicka is op. The sorcerer class is pretty balanced what makes mag sorc the most dominant class is all the outside sets and abilities that mesh insanely well with class. From an overall class perspective the nightblade class in my opinion is actually the strongest, but besides alchamist nothing really meshes well with the class. Where as sorcerer can get sustain dps from a weapon skill line, something that it lacks. It can also get insane in-combat sustain from lich, and pirate skeleton is op when combined with damage shields. Those few things took a balanced class from good to OP. If 1T didn't make all set items available ​for all armor pieces we wouldn't be having all these sorc discussions right now

usmcjdking

Things that are COMPLETELY WORTHLESS against a shield:

Khajit Passive Carnage
Precise Weapons
Sharpened Weapons
Nightblade Executioner Passive
Nightblade Hemmorhage Passive
Templar Piercing Spear Passive
Maces
Daggers
Shadow Mundus
Thief Mundus
Sunderflame
Night Mother's Gaze
Two Fanged Serpent
Kraghs 1st piece
Spriggan
Spinners
Destro Penetrating Magic Passive
Elfborn
Spell Erosion
Precise Strikes
Piercing
Spell Critial
Weapon Critical
Major Fracture
Major Breach
Minor Fracture
Minor Breach

Do you want complete, unadulterated immunity to all of the above at any given time? Cast a shield!

Xvorg

Merlin13KAGL wrote: »

Xvorg wrote: »

You should start playing other classes instead of coming here to dimiss other's opinions that look for class balance. Because that was we were promised BALANCE.

No nerfs to sorcs, but nerfs to the other 3 classes = NO BALANCE

This is seriously your line of thinking?

Must suck when you get a flat tire - feeling obligated to slash the other three instead of just swapping it out with the spare?

Most changes to the other classes involved changing % stat based returns into character level (thus flat rate, at max CP) returns. Sorc passives were already flat rate.

Tell me, magician change only to affect sorcs?

BTW, the change they are giving to you is planly stupid. They should have touched other things instad of dmg...

PainfulFAFA

Waffennacht wrote: »

PainfulFAFA wrote: »

Leave shields as is but let shields be damaged by Dots and crit attacks... boom balanced

.... They are damaged by dots...

Then the whole thread is about how...OMG nvm...

I cant remember if zos ever changed the shields and DoT issue so ill let that one slide.

However, shields cant be critted nor are they affected by penetration and that needs to change

Fact of the matter is, Magsorc has been EZ mode since 1.6 in pve and pvp.
Best burst, best execute, best escape, best defense, etc

Berenhir

PainfulFAFA wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

PainfulFAFA wrote: »

Leave shields as is but let shields be damaged by Dots and crit attacks... boom balanced

.... They are damaged by dots...

Then the whole thread is about how...OMG nvm...

I cant remember if zos ever changed the shields and DoT issue so ill let that one slide.

However, shields cant be critted nor are they affected by penetration and that needs to change

Fact of the matter is, Magsorc has been EZ mode since 1.6 in pve and pvp.
Best burst, best execute, best escape, best defense, etc

It does not matter if shields are affected by penetration or not because they don't have resistances so your attacks hit them unmitigated by anything but damage reduction anyway. So even IF they were subject to penetration, you would not see any damage increase because you cannot penetrate 0 resistances.

Why do you even post when you have no idea about the mechanics you are talking about?

I'm not really sorry to expose you like that because you should feel embarrassed. Talk about things you have knowledge about and not stuff you don't even start to understand.

Derra

usmcjdking wrote: »

Things that are COMPLETELY WORTHLESS against a shield:

Khajit Passive Carnage
Precise Weapons
Sharpened Weapons
Nightblade Executioner Passive
Nightblade Hemmorhage Passive
Templar Piercing Spear Passive
Maces
Daggers
Shadow Mundus
Thief Mundus
Sunderflame
Night Mother's Gaze
Two Fanged Serpent
Kraghs 1st piece
Spriggan
Spinners
Destro Penetrating Magic Passive
Elfborn
Spell Erosion
Precise Strikes
Piercing
Spell Critial
Weapon Critical
Major Fracture
Major Breach
Minor Fracture
Minor Breach

Do you want complete, unadulterated immunity to all of the above at any given time? Cast a shield!

So let´s leave out all the things that are useless because shields have no resistances shall we?

Also all those things left here are useless when casting shields. There are a few more things that are useless when casting shields. Prime example would be spellpower (except for healing ward).
Those things that are left are not useless when casting heals. Also all resistances are not useless when casting heals.

Edit: I feel i have to clarify this every time. I don´t think harness and hardened ward should stack. I also don´t think pirate skeleton is balanced in general in it´s current state.
However stacking shields and getting resources for doing it or getting a near permanent 30% damage reduction have absolutely nothing to do with the general shield mechanics in this game.

Berenhir

Derra wrote: »

usmcjdking wrote: »

Things that are COMPLETELY WORTHLESS against a shield:

Khajit Passive Carnage
Precise Weapons
Sharpened Weapons
Nightblade Executioner Passive
Nightblade Hemmorhage Passive
Templar Piercing Spear Passive
Maces
Daggers
Shadow Mundus
Thief Mundus
Sunderflame
Night Mother's Gaze
Two Fanged Serpent
Kraghs 1st piece
Spriggan
Spinners
Destro Penetrating Magic Passive
Elfborn
Spell Erosion
Precise Strikes
Piercing
Spell Critial
Weapon Critical
Major Fracture
Major Breach
Minor Fracture
Minor Breach

Do you want complete, unadulterated immunity to all of the above at any given time? Cast a shield!

So let´s leave out all the things that are useless because shields have no resistances shall we?

Also all those things left here are useless when casting shields. There are a few more things that are useless when casting shields. Prime example would be spellpower (except for healing ward).
Those things that are left are not useless when casting heals. Also all resistances are not useless when casting heals.

Exactly.

So let's look at what shields and healing have as additional perks that are NOT countered by the shield itself neither benefiting nor suffering from a certain mechanic.

Healing is capped at Max health whereas shields by their very nature are not.
On the one hand , shields add the benefit of virtually adding HP to a full health bar. On the other hand, all mechanics tied to the health bar are not countered by shields. Especially executes still apply their bonus damage when shielding on low health whereas healing on low health will counter the execute mechanic.

There is healing over time but no shielding over time. So while hots can be stacked and take care of your health bar, shields can only be burst casted and have a very short duration, cutting the ability of a shield user to actually use his skills in a real fight nearly in half as shields use up 2 to 3 GCD per 6 GCD if kept up constantly.

Additionally there are a lot of sources for healing, even tied to extremely offensive abilities (blood craze, funnel health, sap essence, sweeps, burning embers, radiant glory...) but only very few sources of offensive shields tied to max magicka. And none dealing damage by themselves.

I don't see any imbalance here. Shielding is a very resource intensive mechanic and leaves no room for lag or errors and no room for much other skills to use.

You just have to be careful as when pressuring a sorc as the class can burst extremely fast and efficient. But that has nothing to do with shields at all. It's the design of the class to be an on/off switch type of fighter. Either shield up or go full burst.

Most people drop their guard and neglect all their own defensive mechanisms when trying to nuke down a sorc's shields and get caught off guard by a strong counter burst.

Gravord

Shields shouldnt protect from critical hits too.

Allu07neb18_ESO

harness and hardened shouldnt stack and nerf pirate skeleton. thats it.

Waffennacht

Gravord wrote: »

Shields shouldnt protect from critical hits too.

People need to realize that you do "critically hit" shields. Your abilities still crit, crit modifiers occur on splash damage, so everything that needs a crit can still proc etc when hitting a shield.

Then penetration etc is still necessary once a sorc shield is down, again not making it useless.

ParaNostram

I can agree with a disdain for shield stacking (personally I don't do it as my ability slots are better spent on something other than a second shield) but not getting to refresh the shield from another cast? Come on! That turns the spell into a cooldown which, hey, we kinda don't have those on ESO for a reason! If I'm spending the magicka to recast the spell, then I should have the spell recast.

Edit: Shield have already been cut to 6 seconds, halved in PvP areas, what more is needed? Your suggested changes OP would just make shields pointless, like spear shards in the original version of Morrowind patch notes pointless. You can kind of use it but why would you? Regardless, come Morrowind, sustain is going to be more of a problem. People aren't going to be able to just spam shields all day and if they do they won't be hurting you. With the front loading of CP you'll be able to spec into bursting down shields with less of a downside.

Edit edit: if the problem is that they can still somehow cast shields all day no problem then the problem doesn't lay with the shield, it lays with sorcs having too high of sustain which means hello? To quote a certain Star Wars character "Stay on target... Stay on target..." Sorcs don't have any nerfs to their in class sustain and that is the thing that should be touched. Their magicka recovery passive should be cut by a third at least and their cost reduction passive should face similar treatment, just as a test for now.

Joy_Division

Waffennacht wrote: »

Gravord wrote: »

Shields shouldnt protect from critical hits too.

People need to realize that you do "critically hit" shields. Your abilities still crit, crit modifiers occur on splash damage, so everything that needs a crit can still proc etc when hitting a shield.

Then penetration etc is still necessary once a sorc shield is down, again not making it useless.

Wow, that's pretty desperate.

Look, I think it sucks Wrobel decided to slap on a gratuitous nerf to shards because so many people got in an uproar when sorcs evaded the nerfhammer. But you and other sorcs don't need to engage is such sophistry that the message is so distorted that it's utter nonsense.

Gilvoth

Syrusthevirus187 wrote: »

dwemer_paleologist wrote: »

you do that allready, you completely remove our stealth, and in the patch notes it says that the damage from stealth atacks were removed.

Wow really? They removed all damage from stealth attacks?
That just seems crazy.....
Or maybe you read it wrong.

[/quote]

no, what they did is removed the "bonus" damage from stealth attacks, not ALL, just the bonus damage.
it's in the patch notes.

Gilvoth

PainfulFAFA wrote: »

Leave shields as is but let shields be damaged by Dots and crit attacks... boom balanced

that's a perfect idea, love it, and i am more than willing to work with that.
problem is, will the devs do that ?