Shields shouldn't stack, and recasting them shouldn't refresh

Kilandros

Casting Hardened Ward followed by a Harness Magicka should simply displace the Hardened Ward. Furthermore, recasting a shield before it has expired should not return the shield to full.

#NERFSHIELDSTACKING

Let's make this happen. Incoming Sorc tears.

Izaki

Just make Harness and Hardened non-stackable... Aka Major and Minor Shields.

Hardened, Harness (and the morphs obviously) = Major Shields

Sun Shield, Igneous Shield, Bone Shield = Minor Shields

Healing Ward is it's own category. Shields that are secondary parts of abilites (like Cleave and Hardened Armor) are also separate.

Done. Easy. The only thing that will need to happen is extra defense to Sorcs, like an HoT or some sort of extra mitigation.

Kilandros

IzakiBrotherSs wrote: »

Just make Harness and Hardened non-stackable... Aka Major and Minor Shields.

Hardened, Harness (and the morphs obviously) = Major Shields

Sun Shield, Igneous Shield, Bone Shield = Minor Shields

Healing Ward is it's own category. Shields that are secondary parts of abilites (like Cleave and Hardened Armor) are also separate.

Done. Easy. The only thing that will need to happen is extra defense to Sorcs, like an HoT or some sort of extra mitigation.

Reasonable post. Thank you.

Waffennacht

Silly simply silly,

Obviously doing both would be Overkill, but that's what you want isn't it?

Kilandros

Waffennacht wrote: »

Silly simply silly,

Obviously doing both would be Overkill, but that's what you want isn't it?

You're wrong. You need to L2P and stop crutching on OP shield stacking. In the long run I'm doing you a favor.

MrBrandon

Kilandros wrote: »

Casting Hardened Ward followed by a Harness Magicka should simply displace the Hardened Ward. Furthermore, recasting a shield before it has expired should not return the shield to full.

#NERFSHIELDSTACKING

Let's make this happen. Incoming Sorc tears.

I main a stamblade and I didn't like going up against mag sorcs for this reason. The only time I would hit them is if the shield was completely down. Then I made a magic sorc and did this to other players. I realized that without this mag sorc would die so fast.

Izaki

Kilandros wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

Silly simply silly,

Obviously doing both would be Overkill, but that's what you want isn't it?

You're wrong. You need to L2P and stop crutching on OP shield stacking. In the long run I'm doing you a favor.

Well its not exactly a L2P issue, when its kinda the only viable form of defense that a Sorc has... They don't synergize well with heavy armor because they don't have any sustain tools outside of cost reduction and recovery, they don't have any class heals (outside of the Twilight and Surge).

Shield stacking used to be OP. Its pretty laughable now to what it used to be, to be honest. Everyone does much more damage than before, and shields haven't changed. I mean I can smoke through both shields on any class that I know how to play properly (except MagDK cause DoTs = free magicka for the Sorc and wearing down shields doesn't work when shielding is so easy). Its really never been a problem for me. In a 1v1, yes shields are very strong defensive mechanics. But as you probably know, they kinda suck when it comes to open world and when you have multiple people on you, much like Healing and very much unlike Resistances, % Mitigation and Block which always keep the same effectiveness and even less like Roll Dodge which becomes more effective the more incoming damage there is.

Plus no need to be rude to every Sorc you meet.

Kilandros

MrBrandon wrote: »

Kilandros wrote: »

Casting Hardened Ward followed by a Harness Magicka should simply displace the Hardened Ward. Furthermore, recasting a shield before it has expired should not return the shield to full.

#NERFSHIELDSTACKING

Let's make this happen. Incoming Sorc tears.

I main a stamblade and I didn't like going up against mag sorcs for this reason. The only time I would hit them is if the shield was completely down. Then I made a magic sorc and did this to other players. I realized that without this mag sorc would die so fast.

They would only die quickly because they build for pure offense since they crutch on shield stacking. If shields couldn't stack the way they do, new Sorc builds involving some defense would emerge.

timidobserver

I agree with the idea, but it just gets complicated and convulted when you start to think about it. Shields as a whole should not be changed. If the Sorc shield needs a nerf, nerf the Sorc shield. Specifically make hardened ward overwrite any other shields or effects granted by a shield and stop right there.

Doing it globally will just result in a bunch of bugs and extra calculations that result in more lag. Ultimately, it will be 2020 before shields are working correctly again.

For example, right now if you cast a cast a barrier or healing ward, it presumably just does an allies in range or closest allies check and applies the shield in addition to whatever else is on the targeted ally. If you make global changes to shields, it will have to see who is in range, check each one of them for existing shields shields, check the duration of any existing shields, figure out how and/or it should interact with each of those existing shields, ect.

grim_tactics

Guess I'll just be the troll in the threads because it seems there is just so much hate towards Sorcs by those who don't know how to beat them.

Any competent player can easily kill a Sorc due to pure DPS negating any shields a Sorc can use.

While we are at it let's remove stealth from NBs (it's OP) and let's also remove stuns from stealth attacks (not fair).

If you remove Sorc shields or nerf them from your recommendations they become an unviable and unplayable class.

All Sorcs run basically the same rotation so it's so easy to know what is coming and block or dodge most attacks.

Tired of all the salt from players who obviously don't play a Sorc and are just jumping on a bandwagon because they can't kill them.

Gankblades are more a cancer to this game than any Sorc shield.

While we are at - ZOS - let me shoot marshmallows from my staff and die from all NB skills in 1 shot so they feel better about themselves. They seem pretty close to the ledge right now.

Gilvoth

Waffennacht wrote: »

Silly simply silly,

Obviously doing both would be Overkill, but that's what you want isn't it?

what's "Overkill" is the ability to cast those shields like that constantly and survive large groups of people attacking you in pvp and also pve.
it is overpowered.

NightbladeMechanics

I think we should let the sustain and cp nerfs play out before you can justify such sweeping mechanical changes. Also nerf Pirate more.

Gilvoth

grim_tactics wrote: »

Guess I'll just be the troll in the threads because it seems there is just so much hate towards Sorcs by those who don't know how to beat them.


let's remove stealth from NBs (it's OP) and let's also remove stuns from stealth attacks (not fair).

you do that allready, you completely remove our stealth, and in the patch notes it says that the damage from stealth atacks were removed.

grim_tactics

dwemer_paleologist wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

Silly simply silly,

Obviously doing both would be Overkill, but that's what you want isn't it?

what's "Overkill" is the ability to cast those shields like that constantly and survive large groups of people attacking you in pvp and also pve.
it is overpowered.

What about spamming Ambush or Fear? That's not OP?

Xvorg

grim_tactics wrote: »

dwemer_paleologist wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

Silly simply silly,

Obviously doing both would be Overkill, but that's what you want isn't it?

what's "Overkill" is the ability to cast those shields like that constantly and survive large groups of people attacking you in pvp and also pve.
it is overpowered.

What about spamming Ambush or Fear? That's not OP?

What fear? That skill is dead for stamblades, there's no way to use it anymore

Gilvoth

the only time you see a dead sorcerer is if large groups of people constantly chase you on horse untill your Dead. and it does take a looong time.

DHale

I have not stacked shields since dark brotherhood a four second period of two shield is not worth it. They are knocked off in a few seconds anyway. Any stamina user with a two hander can bust all but the best sorcs down in a few seconds. I play on na pc and there are three sorcs I truly fear the arcane, force siphon, irylias, and German who has another name. There are a few other good ones but with a two hander stam sorc or stam DK it is manageable for most experienced players.

TheStealthDude

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

I think we should let the sustain and cp nerfs play out before you can justify such sweeping mechanical changes. Also nerf Pirate more.

How dare you bring a reasonable answer into this thread! Obviously you are just a crutch OP super shield user baddy.

grim_tactics

DHale wrote: »

I have not stacked shields since dark brotherhood a four second period of two shield is not worth it. They are knocked off in a few seconds anyway. Any stamina user with a two hander can bust all but the bast sorcs down in a few seconds. I play on na pc and there are three sorcs I truly fear the arcane, force siphon, irylias, and German who has another name. There are a few other good ones but with a two hander stam sorc or stam DK it is manageable for most experienced players.

Thank you. I mean with CP cost reduction removed stacking shields will not be even viable.

Even in the current meta - and I made a post about this - casting 2 shields is such a resource waste for what turns out to be 4-5 second shield which gets burst down so fast.

So many people complaining that just need to learn how to burst Sorcs. It's not that hard. Just root a Sorc and force them to waste Stam and they can't survive at all. That's just one spam strat I see people use that is very effective.

Drishtan

grim_tactics wrote: »

DHale wrote: »

I have not stacked shields since dark brotherhood a four second period of two shield is not worth it. They are knocked off in a few seconds anyway. Any stamina user with a two hander can bust all but the bast sorcs down in a few seconds. I play on na pc and there are three sorcs I truly fear the arcane, force siphon, irylias, and German who has another name. There are a few other good ones but with a two hander stam sorc or stam DK it is manageable for most experienced players.

Thank you. I mean with CP cost reduction removed stacking shields will not be even viable.

Even in the current meta - and I made a post about this - casting 2 shields is such a resource waste for what turns out to be 4-5 second shield which gets burst down so fast.

So many people complaining that just need to learn how to burst Sorcs. It's not that hard. Just root a Sorc and force them to waste Stam and they can't survive at all. That's just one spam strat I see people use that is very effective.

You ever see a sorc run amberplasm? You cant run them out of stam period.

Bone pirate got a nerf but amberplasm didnt???

Thats balanced for sure....

Gilvoth

grim_tactics wrote: »

DHale wrote: »

I have not stacked shields since dark brotherhood a four second period of two shield is not worth it. They are knocked off in a few seconds anyway. Any stamina user with a two hander can bust all but the bast sorcs down in a few seconds. I play on na pc and there are three sorcs I truly fear the arcane, force siphon, irylias, and German who has another name. There are a few other good ones but with a two hander stam sorc or stam DK it is manageable for most experienced players.

Thank you. I mean with CP cost reduction removed stacking shields will not be even viable.

Even in the current meta - and I made a post about this - casting 2 shields is such a resource waste for what turns out to be 4-5 second shield which gets burst down so fast.

So many people complaining that just need to learn how to burst Sorcs. It's not that hard. Just root a Sorc and force them to waste Stam and they can't survive at all. That's just one spam strat I see people use that is very effective.

that is just not true.
everything in that comment is just not true.

makreth

Remove shield stacking for sure but, increase the duration and adjust the values again.

Maybe fixed values according to level, maybe just leave it as magicka based.

But shield stacking is bad.

Hutch679

Kilandros wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

Silly simply silly,

Obviously doing both would be Overkill, but that's what you want isn't it?

You're wrong. You need to L2P and stop crutching on OP shield stacking. In the long run I'm doing you a favor.

Clearly you are the on with the learn to play issue lol if you can't kill a sorc, the problem isn't shield stacking.... it's your ability to play the game effectively. Better luck next patch!

Merlin13KAGL

Shields are there to offset the lack of LA mitigation.

You're good with losing 2/3rd's of your current Spell Resist on Heavy and 1/2 on Medium, right? Because that's how physical resist works for any Sorc in Light...

And I assume you'll demand the inability to refresh any of your own skills before end of duration? Because you want it to be fair, of course?

Eirella

timidobserver wrote: »

I agree with the idea, but it just gets complicated and convulted when you start to think about it. Shields as a whole should not be changed. If the Sorc shield needs a nerf, nerf the Sorc shield. Specifically make hardened ward overwrite any other shields or effects granted by a shield and stop right there.

Doing it globally will just result in a bunch of bugs and extra calculations that result in more lag. Ultimately, it will be 2020 before shields are working correctly again.

For example, right now if you cast a cast a barrier or healing ward, it presumably just does an allies in range or closest allies check and applies the shield in addition to whatever else is on the targeted ally. If you make global changes to shields, it will have to see who is in range, check each one of them for existing shields shields, check the duration of any existing shields, figure out how and/or it should interact with each of those existing shields, ect.

Not my hardened ward ;-;.
Though tbh if mag sorcs have to be nerfed, this would be the most reasonable way to do it.

Feanor

Sure. Nerf shields (again). If my Sorc gets a reliable burst heal instead I do not complain.

grim_tactics

dwemer_paleologist wrote: »

grim_tactics wrote: »

DHale wrote: »

I have not stacked shields since dark brotherhood a four second period of two shield is not worth it. They are knocked off in a few seconds anyway. Any stamina user with a two hander can bust all but the bast sorcs down in a few seconds. I play on na pc and there are three sorcs I truly fear the arcane, force siphon, irylias, and German who has another name. There are a few other good ones but with a two hander stam sorc or stam DK it is manageable for most experienced players.

Thank you. I mean with CP cost reduction removed stacking shields will not be even viable.

Even in the current meta - and I made a post about this - casting 2 shields is such a resource waste for what turns out to be 4-5 second shield which gets burst down so fast.

So many people complaining that just need to learn how to burst Sorcs. It's not that hard. Just root a Sorc and force them to waste Stam and they can't survive at all. That's just one spam strat I see people use that is very effective.

that is just not true.
everything in that comment is just not true.

I've mained a Sorc since year 1 - yes it is.

Drishtan wrote: »

grim_tactics wrote: »

DHale wrote: »

I have not stacked shields since dark brotherhood a four second period of two shield is not worth it. They are knocked off in a few seconds anyway. Any stamina user with a two hander can bust all but the bast sorcs down in a few seconds. I play on na pc and there are three sorcs I truly fear the arcane, force siphon, irylias, and German who has another name. There are a few other good ones but with a two hander stam sorc or stam DK it is manageable for most experienced players.

Thank you. I mean with CP cost reduction removed stacking shields will not be even viable.

Even in the current meta - and I made a post about this - casting 2 shields is such a resource waste for what turns out to be 4-5 second shield which gets burst down so fast.

So many people complaining that just need to learn how to burst Sorcs. It's not that hard. Just root a Sorc and force them to waste Stam and they can't survive at all. That's just one spam strat I see people use that is very effective.

You ever see a sorc run amberplasm? You cant run them out of stam period.

Bone pirate got a nerf but amberplasm didnt???

Thats balanced for sure....

I run several PvP builds - Amberplasm was one of them with Pirate Skeleton

Unless some Sorc you're playing puts Stam regen on every piece they can - I don't know what you're talking about.

Running spell power and 1 regen glyph still nets just at 1200. Go fight a DK or someone really good at root rotations and you'll run out very fast against them especially with poisons.

The only thing that needs to be removed or nerf hammered is Pirate Skeleton. I don't use it anymore because it feels like cheating.

Drishtan

grim_tactics wrote: »

dwemer_paleologist wrote: »

grim_tactics wrote: »

DHale wrote: »

I have not stacked shields since dark brotherhood a four second period of two shield is not worth it. They are knocked off in a few seconds anyway. Any stamina user with a two hander can bust all but the bast sorcs down in a few seconds. I play on na pc and there are three sorcs I truly fear the arcane, force siphon, irylias, and German who has another name. There are a few other good ones but with a two hander stam sorc or stam DK it is manageable for most experienced players.

Thank you. I mean with CP cost reduction removed stacking shields will not be even viable.

Even in the current meta - and I made a post about this - casting 2 shields is such a resource waste for what turns out to be 4-5 second shield which gets burst down so fast.

So many people complaining that just need to learn how to burst Sorcs. It's not that hard. Just root a Sorc and force them to waste Stam and they can't survive at all. That's just one spam strat I see people use that is very effective.

that is just not true.
everything in that comment is just not true.

I've mained a Sorc since year 1 - yes it is.

Drishtan wrote: »

grim_tactics wrote: »

DHale wrote: »

I have not stacked shields since dark brotherhood a four second period of two shield is not worth it. They are knocked off in a few seconds anyway. Any stamina user with a two hander can bust all but the bast sorcs down in a few seconds. I play on na pc and there are three sorcs I truly fear the arcane, force siphon, irylias, and German who has another name. There are a few other good ones but with a two hander stam sorc or stam DK it is manageable for most experienced players.

Thank you. I mean with CP cost reduction removed stacking shields will not be even viable.

Even in the current meta - and I made a post about this - casting 2 shields is such a resource waste for what turns out to be 4-5 second shield which gets burst down so fast.

So many people complaining that just need to learn how to burst Sorcs. It's not that hard. Just root a Sorc and force them to waste Stam and they can't survive at all. That's just one spam strat I see people use that is very effective.

You ever see a sorc run amberplasm? You cant run them out of stam period.

Bone pirate got a nerf but amberplasm didnt???

Thats balanced for sure....

I run several PvP builds - Amberplasm was one of them with Pirate Skeleton

Unless some Sorc you're playing puts Stam regen on every piece they can - I don't know what you're talking about.

Running spell power and 1 regen glyph still nets just at 1200. Go fight a DK or someone really good at root rotations and you'll run out very fast against them especially with poisons.

The only thing that needs to be removed or nerf hammered is Pirate Skeleton. I don't use it anymore because it feels like cheating.

LMFAO i am a DK and I constantly petrify and talons. Against a good sorc they never run out of stam...

Xvorg

grim_tactics wrote: »

dwemer_paleologist wrote: »

grim_tactics wrote: »

DHale wrote: »

I have not stacked shields since dark brotherhood a four second period of two shield is not worth it. They are knocked off in a few seconds anyway. Any stamina user with a two hander can bust all but the bast sorcs down in a few seconds. I play on na pc and there are three sorcs I truly fear the arcane, force siphon, irylias, and German who has another name. There are a few other good ones but with a two hander stam sorc or stam DK it is manageable for most experienced players.

Thank you. I mean with CP cost reduction removed stacking shields will not be even viable.

Even in the current meta - and I made a post about this - casting 2 shields is such a resource waste for what turns out to be 4-5 second shield which gets burst down so fast.

So many people complaining that just need to learn how to burst Sorcs. It's not that hard. Just root a Sorc and force them to waste Stam and they can't survive at all. That's just one spam strat I see people use that is very effective.

that is just not true.
everything in that comment is just not true.

I've mained a Sorc since year 1 - yes it is.

Drishtan wrote: »

grim_tactics wrote: »

DHale wrote: »

I have not stacked shields since dark brotherhood a four second period of two shield is not worth it. They are knocked off in a few seconds anyway. Any stamina user with a two hander can bust all but the bast sorcs down in a few seconds. I play on na pc and there are three sorcs I truly fear the arcane, force siphon, irylias, and German who has another name. There are a few other good ones but with a two hander stam sorc or stam DK it is manageable for most experienced players.

Thank you. I mean with CP cost reduction removed stacking shields will not be even viable.

Even in the current meta - and I made a post about this - casting 2 shields is such a resource waste for what turns out to be 4-5 second shield which gets burst down so fast.

So many people complaining that just need to learn how to burst Sorcs. It's not that hard. Just root a Sorc and force them to waste Stam and they can't survive at all. That's just one spam strat I see people use that is very effective.

You ever see a sorc run amberplasm? You cant run them out of stam period.

Bone pirate got a nerf but amberplasm didnt???

Thats balanced for sure....

I run several PvP builds - Amberplasm was one of them with Pirate Skeleton

Unless some Sorc you're playing puts Stam regen on every piece they can - I don't know what you're talking about.

Running spell power and 1 regen glyph still nets just at 1200. Go fight a DK or someone really good at root rotations and you'll run out very fast against them especially with poisons.

The only thing that needs to be removed or nerf hammered is Pirate Skeleton. I don't use it anymore because it feels like cheating.

You should start playing other classes instead of coming here to dimiss other's opinions that look for class balance. Because that was we were promised BALANCE.

No nerfs to sorcs, but nerfs to the other 3 classes = NO BALANCE

UnversedNumber3

Shield stacking is going to become almost irrelevant with the nerf to sustain. It is too expensive for most people right now.

Xvorg

UnversedNumber3 wrote: »

Shield stacking is going to become almost irrelevant with the nerf to sustain. It is too expensive for most people right now.

Do ypu realize that dmging those shields is also a sustain matter?

I mean 1vx the sorc is gonna suffer (as any other class), but 1v1 is another story.