Troll King

Asgari

Reduce the amount of health regen it gives or reduce its proc chance. It is waaaay too strong vs classes with no real burst. Players can clearly make mistakes and not get punished just because of that set.

D0ntevenL1ft

Change pirate skeleton*. Edited your title for ya.

Asgari

D0ntevenL1ft wrote: »

Change pirate skeleton*. Edited your title for ya.

They both need toning down. Zenimax is pushing for resource management, but you dont need to manage resources when you have both of these sets over performing compared to everything else.

Dragath

1500hp every 2 seconds is hardly a problem, especially since it only kicks in after the target lost half its health.
you still have to manage your resources for damage and healing, if with troll king active.
if your enemy does less than 750 dps, the problem is not troll king.
there are enough damage/burst sets out there to easily get around the hp reg of troll king.

NightbladeMechanics

Dragath wrote: »

1500hp every 2 seconds is hardly a problem, especially since it only kicks in after the target lost half its health.
you still have to manage your resources for damage and healing, if with troll king active.
if your enemy does less than 750 dps, the problem is not troll king.
there are enough damage/burst sets out there to easily get around the hp reg of troll king.

You clearly don't PvP against these sets often.

Personally, I think we should wait and see how the sustain changes affect everyone's builds before further nerfing Troll King. Troll King helps you recover from burst, and is op on live because people can combine it with 1) tanky heavy armor builds without trading off damage or sustain to do so, or 2) roll dodge builds. Both of those types of builds are taking hits with the sustain nerfs. I do expect Troll King to remain very strong in June, but it has already been nerfed both directly and indirectly.

Pirate should not exist, though. Change that to 5pc: "Gain passive Minor Protection at all times" then buff Vampire Cloak.

Dyride

I love this set, been using it consistently since it was introduced.

I'm always looking for builds to support my allies and this set is one few that can do this for people outside of groups but I can understand where OP is coming from. Basically they just need to make it apply without considering the other % Health Regen bonuses.

This would be a huge nerf by the way, considering most of my characters have 50-120% Health regen. I would like to see it continue to proc between 50-60%, considering that any lower and you are into execute stage.

Dragath

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

Dragath wrote: »

1500hp every 2 seconds is hardly a problem, especially since it only kicks in after the target lost half its health.
you still have to manage your resources for damage and healing, if with troll king active.
if your enemy does less than 750 dps, the problem is not troll king.
there are enough damage/burst sets out there to easily get around the hp reg of troll king.

You clearly don't PvP against these sets often.

Personally, I think we should wait and see how the sustain changes affect everyone's builds before further nerfing Troll King. Troll King helps you recover from burst, and is op on live because people can combine it with 1) tanky heavy armor builds without trading off damage or sustain to do so, or 2) roll dodge builds. Both of those types of builds are taking hits with the sustain nerfs. I do expect Troll King to remain very strong in June, but it has already been nerfed both directly and indirectly.

Pirate should not exist, though. Change that to 5pc: "Gain passive Minor Protection at all times" then buff Vampire Cloak.

"these sets"? i said nothing about pirate skeleton.
troll king is not too strong.
1500hp every two seconds are not the problem. the set itself is fine.
heavy armor and roll dodge builds exist without troll king, and as you said, they already have been nerfed.
as for the burst comment: burst from 70% to 0%, not from 100% to 30% hp. counters troll king easily.

NightbladeMechanics

Dragath wrote: »

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

Dragath wrote: »

1500hp every 2 seconds is hardly a problem, especially since it only kicks in after the target lost half its health.
you still have to manage your resources for damage and healing, if with troll king active.
if your enemy does less than 750 dps, the problem is not troll king.
there are enough damage/burst sets out there to easily get around the hp reg of troll king.

You clearly don't PvP against these sets often.

Personally, I think we should wait and see how the sustain changes affect everyone's builds before further nerfing Troll King. Troll King helps you recover from burst, and is op on live because people can combine it with 1) tanky heavy armor builds without trading off damage or sustain to do so, or 2) roll dodge builds. Both of those types of builds are taking hits with the sustain nerfs. I do expect Troll King to remain very strong in June, but it has already been nerfed both directly and indirectly.

Pirate should not exist, though. Change that to 5pc: "Gain passive Minor Protection at all times" then buff Vampire Cloak.

"these sets"? i said nothing about pirate skeleton.
troll king is not too strong.
1500hp every two seconds are not the problem. the set itself is fine.
heavy armor and roll dodge builds exist without troll king, and as you said, they already have been nerfed.
as for the burst comment: burst from 70% to 0%, not from 100% to 30% hp. counters troll king easily.

Considering that it's not cut by battle spirit or defile buffs, that's a very significant amount of health. And I already said I think we should let the patch wash out before we judge TK. As for on live, though, TK is stupidly overperforming.

Lynx7386

Another ganker mad that he can't 1 shot targets without them being able to fight back. Nothing to see here, move along.

Asgari

Lynx7386 wrote: »

Another ganker mad that he can't 1 shot targets without them being able to fight back. Nothing to see here, move along.

@NightbladeMechanics I just got called a ganker lmao This is what we are dealing with in the community.

NightbladeMechanics

Princess_Asgari wrote: »

Lynx7386 wrote: »

Another ganker mad that he can't 1 shot targets without them being able to fight back. Nothing to see here, move along.

@NightbladeMechanics I just got called a ganker lmao This is what we are dealing with in the community.

For shame.

Dragath

calm down, everyone.
no need to start insulting each other over opinions.
everyone can play the way he wants and also on the platform he prefers.

NightbladeMechanics

Dragath wrote: »

calm down, everyone.
no need to start insulting each other over opinions.
everyone can play the way he wants and also on the platform he prefers.

You're right. He also shouldn't jump to conclusions. Regardless, the op raises a valid point and TK is overperforming. I expect health regen to be pretty popular next patch with the nerfs to active healing sustain and strength of Befoul CP.

akray21

QQ! Let's not nerf the only viable monster set for PvP healers the same patch that Templars get their $&@* slapped around! There is so much damage being thrown around anyway.

NightbladeMechanics

akray21 wrote: »

QQ! Let's not nerf the only viable monster set for PvP healers the same patch that Templars get their $&@* slapped around! There is so much damage being thrown around anyway.

Troll King is overperforming, though. Plain and simple.

Instead of defending it, propose buffs to other healing oriented Undaunted Sets, like Chokethorn and Rkugamz.

ssewallb14_ESO

1.5k hp every 2 seconds, unaffected by battle spirit and can't be practically debuffed. That's actually really strong, especially compounded with other buffs to health recovery. A tripot, 1 piece of heavy, and a few points into Healthy alone adds ~28%, nevermind an Orc in Full heavy, and the fact that Khajiit gank/roll builds get another 20.

Dragath

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

Dragath wrote: »

calm down, everyone.
no need to start insulting each other over opinions.
everyone can play the way he wants and also on the platform he prefers.

You're right. He also shouldn't jump to conclusions. Regardless, the op raises a valid point and TK is overperforming. I expect health regen to be pretty popular next patch with the nerfs to active healing sustain and strength of Befoul CP.

TK is good, but in my opinion, not too good. there are other sets that perform just as good, or in case of pirate skeleton, even better, so i assume, since its not an outlier and did get a small nerf this patch, thats how ZOS wants it to be.
i'd rather like to see a change for pirate skeleton and a buff for some of the underperforming sets.

as for the health regen, maybe. no clue how the meta will play out with the frontloaded cp changes, nerfs to sustain for healing AND damage and the siphoner skill. we might even see more burst builds, if sustain is hit so hard that nobody wants to have to sustain in the first place. 1vsX though, i dont't know. ZOS doesnt seem to keen on that anyways.

GreenSoup2HoT

Lynx7386 wrote: »

Another ganker mad that he can't 1 shot targets without them being able to fight back. Nothing to see here, move along.

If the game was better balanced then maybe a ganker wouldn't have to resort to one shotting players.

Morrowwind actually remedies this with all the sustain changes and buffs to befoul. Now you can gank someone, get them low, prevent them from healing, force them to drain stamina, yadayadayayda and then kill them.

The biggest issue come morrowind is the monster helms. Many of them just deal way to much burst (which allows tanky builds to kill people easy or gankers to oneshot) and some provide to much mitigation/healing (troll/skeleton). Some of these monster sets need big changes in my opinion.

If a ganker doesn't kill you within say 10 seconds, its no longer a gank and just becomes a duel.



To the op. Its all monster sets that need a rebalance, not just Troll King.

GreenSoup2HoT

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

akray21 wrote: »

QQ! Let's not nerf the only viable monster set for PvP healers the same patch that Templars get their $&@* slapped around! There is so much damage being thrown around anyway.

Troll King is overperforming, though. Plain and simple.

Instead of defending it, propose buffs to other healing oriented Undaunted Sets, like Chokethorn and Rkugamz.

If only a few glasses of water are too full out of a dozen, wouldn't it be logical to just pour a little out from the few?... rather then make the full dozen too full?

ZOS says they like to only buff and never nerf but thats what leads to balance issues and cryodull debuffs being changed over and over. Nerf's are necessary in any MMO and finally ZOS is realising this with the recent "this is a buff if" statements. Im glad they are finally nerfing rather then buffing for once.

usmcjdking

The amount of effort it takes to kill garbage players using Pirate Skeleton or Troll King is astronomical, and it's, at best, a stalemate vs an experienced player.

Asgari

usmcjdking wrote: »

The amount of effort it takes to kill garbage players using Pirate Skeleton or Troll King is astronomical, and it's, at best, a stalemate vs an experienced player.

Exactly. Idc if troll king gets a reduction in the health regen it gives or if the chance to proc is made so it's not at an almost constant up time I feel many would be happy with one or the other.

Strider_Roshin

Troll King doesn't carry bad players; it reinforces the skillful. Something we shouldn't discourage.

I have fought plenty of players that use this set, and the only context that I find this to be too strong in is with heavy armored builds which are being nerfed this patch anyways. Any other build though, and it's perfectly fine. Just burst them around the 60% mark, and they'll die before it even activates.

Asgari

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

Troll King doesn't carry bad players; it reinforces the skillful. Something we shouldn't discourage.

I have fought plenty of players that use this set, and the only context that I find this to be too strong in is with heavy armored builds which are being nerfed this patch anyways. Any other build though, and it's perfectly fine. Just burst them around the 60% mark, and they'll die before it even activates.

So how does for example a mDK or a magplar "burst" through troll king.. this set with a user wearing even 5 medium is more than they need to just survive because how well it works with vigor. It's basically 2 vigors at the same time.

olsborg

Trollking needs a cooldown, so you cant keep it active 100%.

Pirate Visage needs to not apply protection onto dmg shields, this is completely OP. Also needs a bigger cooldown then currently, because the uptime is basicly 80% atm.

Fuxo

The problem with these sets is that there is no counter. It would be much better, if there were also negative bonuses introduced in the game. For example, troll king would have susceptibility to fire/poison attack, etc. Or it would not function if you had burning/poison effect active. Just an idea.

Xsorus

Poison status effect (the dot) reduces health recovery by half.. or it use to

Just thought I'd let ya guys know

Mumyo

Dragath wrote: »

1500hp every 2 seconds is hardly a problem, especially since it only kicks in after the target lost half its health.
you still have to manage your resources for damage and healing, if with troll king active.
if your enemy does less than 750 dps, the problem is not troll king.
there are enough damage/burst sets out there to easily get around the hp reg of troll king.

With Troll King u get up to 3k hp regen that cannot be toned down by defile. THAT+the healing u have from things like momentum vigor and anything else makes it impossible to kill you if u are in heavy armor.

It is mostly heavy armor builds+that being unkillable.

Iyas

Troll king and pirate skeleton are def. overperforming in PvP

Ocelot9x

When I see someone with that set I laugh; it's baddies way to heal themselves and I think the game should be focused on active and skillfull plays. On live it's not so difficult to deal with it,just get the carried-by-armor to 60% and burst him. With morrowind you'll lose a lot of damage to get sustain so it will be incredibly difficult to burst a trollking wearer.

Arenguros

Why not just change it so Troll King only procs when you actually heal an ally and not on any kind of self-heal?

Because this sounds like it wants to be on a healer/supporter, not a tank build.

GrigorijMalahevich

@Princess_Asgari you are not happy with Troll King while fighting 1x1... Now imagine fighting a group with 2-3 magplars with troll king just casting mutagen and occasionally BoL - now that is annoying...

Just remove Pirate Skeleton and Troll King. Both sets are obviously OP for what they do.