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Re: Sorc Shields
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usmcjdking✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭usmcjdking wrote: »usmcjdking wrote: »usmcjdking wrote: »usmcjdking wrote: »psychotic13 wrote: »Malamar1229 wrote: »I want to address the plebs still crying about sorc shields. This is not a secret and will become common knowledge in a matter of weeks anyway so my fella sorcs need not hate on me.
Sorc shields are nerfed presently to a much greater degree than most of you realize:
1) Sustaining by means of stacking harness over hardened is not going to work anymore. Top that with the Siphoner CP passive/poisons makes spam stacking much harder.
2) CP are now front loaded as outlined in the PTS notes. This means most players will be running around with like 10% in shattering blows.
3) Hardy and Elemental Defender values were reduced to 15% with 100 points invested into them. This is more damage getting through to shields.
Obviously in a NO CP environment these points won't be as huge an impact. So it is my early prediction well probably see more sorcs in Battlegrounds/Azuras than you will in CP enabled environments. Building for sustain to support shields (since light armor offers no damage mitigation) means another nerf to damage as well.
Here's a few tags for support, @Lord_Hev @Derra @Hexys @RinaldoGandolphi @Minalan @Dracane
Thank you for addressing this to all the idiots who are making thread after thread about sorc shields, they are cluelessStrider_Roshin wrote: »We´re still going to need adjustment for harness returns.
ZOS stated that resource returns based on pools were undesireable in their design philosophy - which is exactly what harness still does.
Give harness a fixed magica return.Furthermore i think dark deal/conversion should see some kind of rework - but not simply on the numbers instead i´d suggest a mechanical change:
Convert ONLY the resource return into an over time type of mechanic - returning the resources over 6 to 10s. That way it could no longer be spammed for excessive resource gains in short amounts of time but would still be a possible heal.
Excellent suggestions @Derra
I agree with @Dracane
I personally have thought that shield stacking was too OP for quite some time, but with these recent sustain nerfs I think if you can maintain shield stacking then you should be rewarded with its effectiveness. Also keep Bastion at 25%. Investing into that passively makes you very weak when those shields are down, and therefore we shouldn't punish those that want to polarize their defenses by investing into this passive.
Good argument. Afterall, maintaining shields requires active work and micromanagement and once they are down, you are punished with greater squishiness. If you want to provide yourself the necessary sustain, you will need light armor and most likely divine traits in order to improve the atronach stone, every little bit helps. So you are definately dead meat once your health gets touched..
Shields do not take any micromanagement lol.
Of course they do O.o Maybe micromanagement is not the perfect word for it. But yes
No. Shields do not require any micro. If you were actually good at micro (your Visage video is great proof of my claim) you wouldn't say something this silly.
Micromanagement with shields does exist hence pets exist in the game, try them without the shield, the pets are then rendered useless, aka dead.
Others will use the shields reactively rather than proactively as this has a huge impact on defence and how they play.DragonBound wrote: »
snipStrider_Roshin wrote: »It´s gonna be funny anyways when people realize stamina and magica wardens offer better delayed burst than sorcs do.
Underground assault, bird, charge, puncture (procsetofyourliking here) - literally everything hits at the same time - 1 hit no stealth needed.
Magica works the same way but takes a little more work/skill to execute with heavyattack - but potentially even more deadly with fire knockback and the delay on breaking.
The Bird is truly overperforming. Compare it to force pulse and forsake. it's better in every single aspect.
Being undodgeable is ridiculous IMO. It's easy to dodge? So is frags, so is overload, so is uppercut, so is snipe, so is Dark Flare, so is the spectral bow from Grim Focus.
So what makes the Warden special?
Everything makes the Warden special. Andusmcjdking wrote: »usmcjdking wrote: »psychotic13 wrote: »Malamar1229 wrote: »I want to address the plebs still crying about sorc shields. This is not a secret and will become common knowledge in a matter of weeks anyway so my fella sorcs need not hate on me.
Sorc shields are nerfed presently to a much greater degree than most of you realize:
1) Sustaining by means of stacking harness over hardened is not going to work anymore. Top that with the Siphoner CP passive/poisons makes spam stacking much harder.
2) CP are now front loaded as outlined in the PTS notes. This means most players will be running around with like 10% in shattering blows.
3) Hardy and Elemental Defender values were reduced to 15% with 100 points invested into them. This is more damage getting through to shields.
Obviously in a NO CP environment these points won't be as huge an impact. So it is my early prediction well probably see more sorcs in Battlegrounds/Azuras than you will in CP enabled environments. Building for sustain to support shields (since light armor offers no damage mitigation) means another nerf to damage as well.
Here's a few tags for support, @Lord_Hev @Derra @Hexys @RinaldoGandolphi @Minalan @Dracane
Thank you for addressing this to all the idiots who are making thread after thread about sorc shields, they are cluelessStrider_Roshin wrote: »We´re still going to need adjustment for harness returns.
ZOS stated that resource returns based on pools were undesireable in their design philosophy - which is exactly what harness still does.
Give harness a fixed magica return.Furthermore i think dark deal/conversion should see some kind of rework - but not simply on the numbers instead i´d suggest a mechanical change:
Convert ONLY the resource return into an over time type of mechanic - returning the resources over 6 to 10s. That way it could no longer be spammed for excessive resource gains in short amounts of time but would still be a possible heal.
Excellent suggestions @Derra
I agree with @Dracane
I personally have thought that shield stacking was too OP for quite some time, but with these recent sustain nerfs I think if you can maintain shield stacking then you should be rewarded with its effectiveness. Also keep Bastion at 25%. Investing into that passively makes you very weak when those shields are down, and therefore we shouldn't punish those that want to polarize their defenses by investing into this passive.
Good argument. Afterall, maintaining shields requires active work and micromanagement and once they are down, you are punished with greater squishiness. If you want to provide yourself the necessary sustain, you will need light armor and most likely divine traits in order to improve the atronach stone, every little bit helps. So you are definately dead meat once your health gets touched..
Shields do not take any micromanagement lol.
Of course they do O.o Maybe micromanagement is not the perfect word for it. But yes
No. Shields do not require any micro. If you were actually good at micro (your Visage video is great proof of my claim) you wouldn't say something this silly.
Visage is a micromanagement intensive hero ! And I can do it
Stop your claims.
He sure is. The way you played Visage was not very micro intensive and that's perfectly fine as you will continue to progress in the game and get better with the hero.
That doesn't discount the fact shields do not take a high level of skill to utilize. And they certainly do not take any micromanagement.
You still have yet to prove or make any case of your opinion that shields do not require micro-managing. Other then an ad hominem jab at someone in regards to a different game.
Peak effectiveness of shields (discounting healing ward) can be reached by 2 buttons in sequential orders every 6 seconds.
Peak efficiency of shields can be reached by no more than 1 APS.
These are not qualitities associated wth micro-management
Your APS mean nothing to the 90% of sorc rerolls that consistently die to one of my 22k frags because they didn't click two buttons for their shields in an improper rotation.
There is micromanaging in when to shield stack, maintain shield rotation, and going on the offensive. Something you would have to learn the hardway if you ever played a sorc.
That's called "managing".
Not micro-managing.
English is hard, I get it.0331
06020 -
Lord_Hev✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭usmcjdking wrote: »usmcjdking wrote: »usmcjdking wrote: »usmcjdking wrote: »usmcjdking wrote: »psychotic13 wrote: »Malamar1229 wrote: »I want to address the plebs still crying about sorc shields. This is not a secret and will become common knowledge in a matter of weeks anyway so my fella sorcs need not hate on me.
Sorc shields are nerfed presently to a much greater degree than most of you realize:
1) Sustaining by means of stacking harness over hardened is not going to work anymore. Top that with the Siphoner CP passive/poisons makes spam stacking much harder.
2) CP are now front loaded as outlined in the PTS notes. This means most players will be running around with like 10% in shattering blows.
3) Hardy and Elemental Defender values were reduced to 15% with 100 points invested into them. This is more damage getting through to shields.
Obviously in a NO CP environment these points won't be as huge an impact. So it is my early prediction well probably see more sorcs in Battlegrounds/Azuras than you will in CP enabled environments. Building for sustain to support shields (since light armor offers no damage mitigation) means another nerf to damage as well.
Here's a few tags for support, @Lord_Hev @Derra @Hexys @RinaldoGandolphi @Minalan @Dracane
Thank you for addressing this to all the idiots who are making thread after thread about sorc shields, they are cluelessStrider_Roshin wrote: »We´re still going to need adjustment for harness returns.
ZOS stated that resource returns based on pools were undesireable in their design philosophy - which is exactly what harness still does.
Give harness a fixed magica return.Furthermore i think dark deal/conversion should see some kind of rework - but not simply on the numbers instead i´d suggest a mechanical change:
Convert ONLY the resource return into an over time type of mechanic - returning the resources over 6 to 10s. That way it could no longer be spammed for excessive resource gains in short amounts of time but would still be a possible heal.
Excellent suggestions @Derra
I agree with @Dracane
I personally have thought that shield stacking was too OP for quite some time, but with these recent sustain nerfs I think if you can maintain shield stacking then you should be rewarded with its effectiveness. Also keep Bastion at 25%. Investing into that passively makes you very weak when those shields are down, and therefore we shouldn't punish those that want to polarize their defenses by investing into this passive.
Good argument. Afterall, maintaining shields requires active work and micromanagement and once they are down, you are punished with greater squishiness. If you want to provide yourself the necessary sustain, you will need light armor and most likely divine traits in order to improve the atronach stone, every little bit helps. So you are definately dead meat once your health gets touched..
Shields do not take any micromanagement lol.
Of course they do O.o Maybe micromanagement is not the perfect word for it. But yes
No. Shields do not require any micro. If you were actually good at micro (your Visage video is great proof of my claim) you wouldn't say something this silly.
Micromanagement with shields does exist hence pets exist in the game, try them without the shield, the pets are then rendered useless, aka dead.
Others will use the shields reactively rather than proactively as this has a huge impact on defence and how they play.DragonBound wrote: »
snipStrider_Roshin wrote: »It´s gonna be funny anyways when people realize stamina and magica wardens offer better delayed burst than sorcs do.
Underground assault, bird, charge, puncture (procsetofyourliking here) - literally everything hits at the same time - 1 hit no stealth needed.
Magica works the same way but takes a little more work/skill to execute with heavyattack - but potentially even more deadly with fire knockback and the delay on breaking.
The Bird is truly overperforming. Compare it to force pulse and forsake. it's better in every single aspect.
Being undodgeable is ridiculous IMO. It's easy to dodge? So is frags, so is overload, so is uppercut, so is snipe, so is Dark Flare, so is the spectral bow from Grim Focus.
So what makes the Warden special?
Everything makes the Warden special. Andusmcjdking wrote: »usmcjdking wrote: »psychotic13 wrote: »Malamar1229 wrote: »I want to address the plebs still crying about sorc shields. This is not a secret and will become common knowledge in a matter of weeks anyway so my fella sorcs need not hate on me.
Sorc shields are nerfed presently to a much greater degree than most of you realize:
1) Sustaining by means of stacking harness over hardened is not going to work anymore. Top that with the Siphoner CP passive/poisons makes spam stacking much harder.
2) CP are now front loaded as outlined in the PTS notes. This means most players will be running around with like 10% in shattering blows.
3) Hardy and Elemental Defender values were reduced to 15% with 100 points invested into them. This is more damage getting through to shields.
Obviously in a NO CP environment these points won't be as huge an impact. So it is my early prediction well probably see more sorcs in Battlegrounds/Azuras than you will in CP enabled environments. Building for sustain to support shields (since light armor offers no damage mitigation) means another nerf to damage as well.
Here's a few tags for support, @Lord_Hev @Derra @Hexys @RinaldoGandolphi @Minalan @Dracane
Thank you for addressing this to all the idiots who are making thread after thread about sorc shields, they are cluelessStrider_Roshin wrote: »We´re still going to need adjustment for harness returns.
ZOS stated that resource returns based on pools were undesireable in their design philosophy - which is exactly what harness still does.
Give harness a fixed magica return.Furthermore i think dark deal/conversion should see some kind of rework - but not simply on the numbers instead i´d suggest a mechanical change:
Convert ONLY the resource return into an over time type of mechanic - returning the resources over 6 to 10s. That way it could no longer be spammed for excessive resource gains in short amounts of time but would still be a possible heal.
Excellent suggestions @Derra
I agree with @Dracane
I personally have thought that shield stacking was too OP for quite some time, but with these recent sustain nerfs I think if you can maintain shield stacking then you should be rewarded with its effectiveness. Also keep Bastion at 25%. Investing into that passively makes you very weak when those shields are down, and therefore we shouldn't punish those that want to polarize their defenses by investing into this passive.
Good argument. Afterall, maintaining shields requires active work and micromanagement and once they are down, you are punished with greater squishiness. If you want to provide yourself the necessary sustain, you will need light armor and most likely divine traits in order to improve the atronach stone, every little bit helps. So you are definately dead meat once your health gets touched..
Shields do not take any micromanagement lol.
Of course they do O.o Maybe micromanagement is not the perfect word for it. But yes
No. Shields do not require any micro. If you were actually good at micro (your Visage video is great proof of my claim) you wouldn't say something this silly.
Visage is a micromanagement intensive hero ! And I can do it Stop your claims.
He sure is. The way you played Visage was not very micro intensive and that's perfectly fine as you will continue to progress in the game and get better with the hero.
That doesn't discount the fact shields do not take a high level of skill to utilize. And they certainly do not take any micromanagement.
You still have yet to prove or make any case of your opinion that shields do not require micro-managing. Other then an ad hominem jab at someone in regards to a different game.
Peak effectiveness of shields (discounting healing ward) can be reached by 2 buttons in sequential orders every 6 seconds.
Peak efficiency of shields can be reached by no more than 1 APS.
These are not qualitities associated wth micro-management
Your APS mean nothing to the 90% of sorc rerolls that consistently die to one of my 22k frags because they didn't click two buttons for their shields in an improper rotation.
There is micromanaging in when to shield stack, maintain shield rotation, and going on the offensive. Something you would have to learn the hardway if you ever played a sorc.
That's called "managing".
Not micro-managing.
English is hard, I get it.
Managing entails skill. It requires skill and derived intuition to manage shields in relation to doing damage and hopefully killing your targets.
Your pedantics are not doing you any favors.0 -
Lord_Hev✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Major Protection simply shouldn't work on Shields
Simple Fix and would probably balance that issue.
Im going to have to disagree with this. Major protection only suddenly became an issue due to the Pirate Skeleton set. That set needs more then a meager 1% proc chance nerf.0 -
Xsorus✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭
Sorcs would just switch to Restro Ult instead if Pirates was nerfed...So nerfing Pirates won't do it
Simply nerf Protection to not work on Shields.
Simple Fix
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXpX7JMwRXtczc5GTrIYRIw
ESO and GW2 PvP videos2 -
Lord_Hev✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭
Sorcs would just switch to Restro Ult instead if Pirates was nerfed...So nerfing Pirates won't do it
Simply nerf Protection to not work on Shields.
Simple Fix
Light of Champion has the same duration as a single shield stack rotation. Pirate Skeleton has consistent uptime. There's a big difference between the two.
EDIT: I'm against your proposition because I believe shields should recieve major protection from balanced sources. Pirate Skeleton in it's own right is overperforming, and allows more then just mag sorcs to have consistent ease of tankyness. Major Protection buff should not be coming from a set piece.Edited by Lord_Hev on April 21, 2017 2:05AM0 -
usmcjdking✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭usmcjdking wrote: »usmcjdking wrote: »usmcjdking wrote: »usmcjdking wrote: »usmcjdking wrote: »psychotic13 wrote: »Malamar1229 wrote: »I want to address the plebs still crying about sorc shields. This is not a secret and will become common knowledge in a matter of weeks anyway so my fella sorcs need not hate on me.
Sorc shields are nerfed presently to a much greater degree than most of you realize:
1) Sustaining by means of stacking harness over hardened is not going to work anymore. Top that with the Siphoner CP passive/poisons makes spam stacking much harder.
2) CP are now front loaded as outlined in the PTS notes. This means most players will be running around with like 10% in shattering blows.
3) Hardy and Elemental Defender values were reduced to 15% with 100 points invested into them. This is more damage getting through to shields.
Obviously in a NO CP environment these points won't be as huge an impact. So it is my early prediction well probably see more sorcs in Battlegrounds/Azuras than you will in CP enabled environments. Building for sustain to support shields (since light armor offers no damage mitigation) means another nerf to damage as well.
Here's a few tags for support, @Lord_Hev @Derra @Hexys @RinaldoGandolphi @Minalan @Dracane
Thank you for addressing this to all the idiots who are making thread after thread about sorc shields, they are cluelessStrider_Roshin wrote: »We´re still going to need adjustment for harness returns.
ZOS stated that resource returns based on pools were undesireable in their design philosophy - which is exactly what harness still does.
Give harness a fixed magica return.Furthermore i think dark deal/conversion should see some kind of rework - but not simply on the numbers instead i´d suggest a mechanical change:
Convert ONLY the resource return into an over time type of mechanic - returning the resources over 6 to 10s. That way it could no longer be spammed for excessive resource gains in short amounts of time but would still be a possible heal.
Excellent suggestions @Derra
I agree with @Dracane
I personally have thought that shield stacking was too OP for quite some time, but with these recent sustain nerfs I think if you can maintain shield stacking then you should be rewarded with its effectiveness. Also keep Bastion at 25%. Investing into that passively makes you very weak when those shields are down, and therefore we shouldn't punish those that want to polarize their defenses by investing into this passive.
Good argument. Afterall, maintaining shields requires active work and micromanagement and once they are down, you are punished with greater squishiness. If you want to provide yourself the necessary sustain, you will need light armor and most likely divine traits in order to improve the atronach stone, every little bit helps. So you are definately dead meat once your health gets touched..
Shields do not take any micromanagement lol.
Of course they do O.o Maybe micromanagement is not the perfect word for it. But yes
No. Shields do not require any micro. If you were actually good at micro (your Visage video is great proof of my claim) you wouldn't say something this silly.
Micromanagement with shields does exist hence pets exist in the game, try them without the shield, the pets are then rendered useless, aka dead.
Others will use the shields reactively rather than proactively as this has a huge impact on defence and how they play.DragonBound wrote: »
snipStrider_Roshin wrote: »It´s gonna be funny anyways when people realize stamina and magica wardens offer better delayed burst than sorcs do.
Underground assault, bird, charge, puncture (procsetofyourliking here) - literally everything hits at the same time - 1 hit no stealth needed.
Magica works the same way but takes a little more work/skill to execute with heavyattack - but potentially even more deadly with fire knockback and the delay on breaking.
The Bird is truly overperforming. Compare it to force pulse and forsake. it's better in every single aspect.
Being undodgeable is ridiculous IMO. It's easy to dodge? So is frags, so is overload, so is uppercut, so is snipe, so is Dark Flare, so is the spectral bow from Grim Focus.
So what makes the Warden special?
Everything makes the Warden special. Andusmcjdking wrote: »usmcjdking wrote: »psychotic13 wrote: »Malamar1229 wrote: »I want to address the plebs still crying about sorc shields. This is not a secret and will become common knowledge in a matter of weeks anyway so my fella sorcs need not hate on me.
Sorc shields are nerfed presently to a much greater degree than most of you realize:
1) Sustaining by means of stacking harness over hardened is not going to work anymore. Top that with the Siphoner CP passive/poisons makes spam stacking much harder.
2) CP are now front loaded as outlined in the PTS notes. This means most players will be running around with like 10% in shattering blows.
3) Hardy and Elemental Defender values were reduced to 15% with 100 points invested into them. This is more damage getting through to shields.
Obviously in a NO CP environment these points won't be as huge an impact. So it is my early prediction well probably see more sorcs in Battlegrounds/Azuras than you will in CP enabled environments. Building for sustain to support shields (since light armor offers no damage mitigation) means another nerf to damage as well.
Here's a few tags for support, @Lord_Hev @Derra @Hexys @RinaldoGandolphi @Minalan @Dracane
Thank you for addressing this to all the idiots who are making thread after thread about sorc shields, they are cluelessStrider_Roshin wrote: »We´re still going to need adjustment for harness returns.
ZOS stated that resource returns based on pools were undesireable in their design philosophy - which is exactly what harness still does.
Give harness a fixed magica return.Furthermore i think dark deal/conversion should see some kind of rework - but not simply on the numbers instead i´d suggest a mechanical change:
Convert ONLY the resource return into an over time type of mechanic - returning the resources over 6 to 10s. That way it could no longer be spammed for excessive resource gains in short amounts of time but would still be a possible heal.
Excellent suggestions @Derra
I agree with @Dracane
I personally have thought that shield stacking was too OP for quite some time, but with these recent sustain nerfs I think if you can maintain shield stacking then you should be rewarded with its effectiveness. Also keep Bastion at 25%. Investing into that passively makes you very weak when those shields are down, and therefore we shouldn't punish those that want to polarize their defenses by investing into this passive.
Good argument. Afterall, maintaining shields requires active work and micromanagement and once they are down, you are punished with greater squishiness. If you want to provide yourself the necessary sustain, you will need light armor and most likely divine traits in order to improve the atronach stone, every little bit helps. So you are definately dead meat once your health gets touched..
Shields do not take any micromanagement lol.
Of course they do O.o Maybe micromanagement is not the perfect word for it. But yes
No. Shields do not require any micro. If you were actually good at micro (your Visage video is great proof of my claim) you wouldn't say something this silly.
Visage is a micromanagement intensive hero ! And I can do it Stop your claims.
He sure is. The way you played Visage was not very micro intensive and that's perfectly fine as you will continue to progress in the game and get better with the hero.
That doesn't discount the fact shields do not take a high level of skill to utilize. And they certainly do not take any micromanagement.
You still have yet to prove or make any case of your opinion that shields do not require micro-managing. Other then an ad hominem jab at someone in regards to a different game.
Peak effectiveness of shields (discounting healing ward) can be reached by 2 buttons in sequential orders every 6 seconds.
Peak efficiency of shields can be reached by no more than 1 APS.
These are not qualitities associated wth micro-management
Your APS mean nothing to the 90% of sorc rerolls that consistently die to one of my 22k frags because they didn't click two buttons for their shields in an improper rotation.
There is micromanaging in when to shield stack, maintain shield rotation, and going on the offensive. Something you would have to learn the hardway if you ever played a sorc.
That's called "managing".
Not micro-managing.
English is hard, I get it.
Managing entails skill. It requires skill and derived intuition to manage shields in relation to doing damage and hopefully killing your targets.
Your pedantics are not doing you any favors.
Okay.
I know it's hard for you to keep the goalposts on the same field for longer than 30 seconds, but hear me out.
It's not micromanagement no matter how hard you try.0331
06020 -
Lord_Hev✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭usmcjdking wrote: »usmcjdking wrote: »usmcjdking wrote: »usmcjdking wrote: »usmcjdking wrote: »usmcjdking wrote: »psychotic13 wrote: »Malamar1229 wrote: »I want to address the plebs still crying about sorc shields. This is not a secret and will become common knowledge in a matter of weeks anyway so my fella sorcs need not hate on me.
Sorc shields are nerfed presently to a much greater degree than most of you realize:
1) Sustaining by means of stacking harness over hardened is not going to work anymore. Top that with the Siphoner CP passive/poisons makes spam stacking much harder.
2) CP are now front loaded as outlined in the PTS notes. This means most players will be running around with like 10% in shattering blows.
3) Hardy and Elemental Defender values were reduced to 15% with 100 points invested into them. This is more damage getting through to shields.
Obviously in a NO CP environment these points won't be as huge an impact. So it is my early prediction well probably see more sorcs in Battlegrounds/Azuras than you will in CP enabled environments. Building for sustain to support shields (since light armor offers no damage mitigation) means another nerf to damage as well.
Here's a few tags for support, @Lord_Hev @Derra @Hexys @RinaldoGandolphi @Minalan @Dracane
Thank you for addressing this to all the idiots who are making thread after thread about sorc shields, they are cluelessStrider_Roshin wrote: »We´re still going to need adjustment for harness returns.
ZOS stated that resource returns based on pools were undesireable in their design philosophy - which is exactly what harness still does.
Give harness a fixed magica return.Furthermore i think dark deal/conversion should see some kind of rework - but not simply on the numbers instead i´d suggest a mechanical change:
Convert ONLY the resource return into an over time type of mechanic - returning the resources over 6 to 10s. That way it could no longer be spammed for excessive resource gains in short amounts of time but would still be a possible heal.
Excellent suggestions @Derra
I agree with @Dracane
I personally have thought that shield stacking was too OP for quite some time, but with these recent sustain nerfs I think if you can maintain shield stacking then you should be rewarded with its effectiveness. Also keep Bastion at 25%. Investing into that passively makes you very weak when those shields are down, and therefore we shouldn't punish those that want to polarize their defenses by investing into this passive.
Good argument. Afterall, maintaining shields requires active work and micromanagement and once they are down, you are punished with greater squishiness. If you want to provide yourself the necessary sustain, you will need light armor and most likely divine traits in order to improve the atronach stone, every little bit helps. So you are definately dead meat once your health gets touched..
Shields do not take any micromanagement lol.
Of course they do O.o Maybe micromanagement is not the perfect word for it. But yes
No. Shields do not require any micro. If you were actually good at micro (your Visage video is great proof of my claim) you wouldn't say something this silly.
Micromanagement with shields does exist hence pets exist in the game, try them without the shield, the pets are then rendered useless, aka dead.
Others will use the shields reactively rather than proactively as this has a huge impact on defence and how they play.DragonBound wrote: »
snipStrider_Roshin wrote: »It´s gonna be funny anyways when people realize stamina and magica wardens offer better delayed burst than sorcs do.
Underground assault, bird, charge, puncture (procsetofyourliking here) - literally everything hits at the same time - 1 hit no stealth needed.
Magica works the same way but takes a little more work/skill to execute with heavyattack - but potentially even more deadly with fire knockback and the delay on breaking.
The Bird is truly overperforming. Compare it to force pulse and forsake. it's better in every single aspect.
Being undodgeable is ridiculous IMO. It's easy to dodge? So is frags, so is overload, so is uppercut, so is snipe, so is Dark Flare, so is the spectral bow from Grim Focus.
So what makes the Warden special?
Everything makes the Warden special. Andusmcjdking wrote: »usmcjdking wrote: »psychotic13 wrote: »Malamar1229 wrote: »I want to address the plebs still crying about sorc shields. This is not a secret and will become common knowledge in a matter of weeks anyway so my fella sorcs need not hate on me.
Sorc shields are nerfed presently to a much greater degree than most of you realize:
1) Sustaining by means of stacking harness over hardened is not going to work anymore. Top that with the Siphoner CP passive/poisons makes spam stacking much harder.
2) CP are now front loaded as outlined in the PTS notes. This means most players will be running around with like 10% in shattering blows.
3) Hardy and Elemental Defender values were reduced to 15% with 100 points invested into them. This is more damage getting through to shields.
Obviously in a NO CP environment these points won't be as huge an impact. So it is my early prediction well probably see more sorcs in Battlegrounds/Azuras than you will in CP enabled environments. Building for sustain to support shields (since light armor offers no damage mitigation) means another nerf to damage as well.
Here's a few tags for support, @Lord_Hev @Derra @Hexys @RinaldoGandolphi @Minalan @Dracane
Thank you for addressing this to all the idiots who are making thread after thread about sorc shields, they are cluelessStrider_Roshin wrote: »We´re still going to need adjustment for harness returns.
ZOS stated that resource returns based on pools were undesireable in their design philosophy - which is exactly what harness still does.
Give harness a fixed magica return.Furthermore i think dark deal/conversion should see some kind of rework - but not simply on the numbers instead i´d suggest a mechanical change:
Convert ONLY the resource return into an over time type of mechanic - returning the resources over 6 to 10s. That way it could no longer be spammed for excessive resource gains in short amounts of time but would still be a possible heal.
Excellent suggestions @Derra
I agree with @Dracane
I personally have thought that shield stacking was too OP for quite some time, but with these recent sustain nerfs I think if you can maintain shield stacking then you should be rewarded with its effectiveness. Also keep Bastion at 25%. Investing into that passively makes you very weak when those shields are down, and therefore we shouldn't punish those that want to polarize their defenses by investing into this passive.
Good argument. Afterall, maintaining shields requires active work and micromanagement and once they are down, you are punished with greater squishiness. If you want to provide yourself the necessary sustain, you will need light armor and most likely divine traits in order to improve the atronach stone, every little bit helps. So you are definately dead meat once your health gets touched..
Shields do not take any micromanagement lol.
Of course they do O.o Maybe micromanagement is not the perfect word for it. But yes
No. Shields do not require any micro. If you were actually good at micro (your Visage video is great proof of my claim) you wouldn't say something this silly.
Visage is a micromanagement intensive hero ! And I can do it Stop your claims.
He sure is. The way you played Visage was not very micro intensive and that's perfectly fine as you will continue to progress in the game and get better with the hero.
That doesn't discount the fact shields do not take a high level of skill to utilize. And they certainly do not take any micromanagement.
You still have yet to prove or make any case of your opinion that shields do not require micro-managing. Other then an ad hominem jab at someone in regards to a different game.
Peak effectiveness of shields (discounting healing ward) can be reached by 2 buttons in sequential orders every 6 seconds.
Peak efficiency of shields can be reached by no more than 1 APS.
These are not qualitities associated wth micro-management
Your APS mean nothing to the 90% of sorc rerolls that consistently die to one of my 22k frags because they didn't click two buttons for their shields in an improper rotation.
There is micromanaging in when to shield stack, maintain shield rotation, and going on the offensive. Something you would have to learn the hardway if you ever played a sorc.
That's called "managing".
Not micro-managing.
English is hard, I get it.
Managing entails skill. It requires skill and derived intuition to manage shields in relation to doing damage and hopefully killing your targets.
Your pedantics are not doing you any favors.
Okay.
I know it's hard for you to keep the goalposts on the same field for longer than 30 seconds, but hear me out.
It's not micromanagement no matter how hard you try.
okay0 -
Jsmalls✭✭✭✭✭Been saying exactly this, but people insist on claiming it's a conspiracy theory haha0 -
Derra✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭We´re still going to need adjustment for harness returns.
ZOS stated that resource returns based on pools were undesireable in their design philosophy - which is exactly what harness still does.
Give harness a fixed magica return.
No. Please do not give harness magicka a fixed return. I say this as someone who actually never uses harness magicka.
Harness magicka is already very situational to use; it's not a free magicka return skill you click whenever you want more resources, and I'm not sure it'll even restore more resources than it consumes without cost reduction (though I need to check this on the PTS later tonight).
The thing that bothers me about this is that if it the fixed amount it returns is comparable to its cost, then literally every stamina character could slot it to hard counter literally every magicka character in PvP. The way it is currently is extremely fair: it is only a viable counter to people who could viably use it themselves to counter you.
Simple fix for that. Increase the resource return scaling per light armor piece equipped (currently 6% on the scaling base value).
Also stamina character could still not use harness because it shieldsize would still be determined by magica pool. We´re only talking about the magica return that should be fixed value.
From what i tested it can very much still pay for itself and more given high enough magica pool - which also means that it is currently and will still be a free magica return skill if you know what you´re doing (ie: dots on you run around a stone recast harness a couple of times and enjoy full magica).Edited by Derra on April 21, 2017 6:51AM<Noricum>
I live. I die. I live again.
Derra - DC - Sorc - AvA 50
Derrah - EP - Sorc - AvA 500 -
Derra✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Major Protection simply shouldn't work on Shields
Simple Fix and would probably balance that issue.
So every class not mainly relying on shield should keep pirate + resto ult as vaible tools and sorcs should not - not figuring in that loosing resto ult would also be a gigantic nerf for magblades in light.
I´d rather see protection reworked (or if i´m completely honest pirate skeleton - because that´s whats overperforming in general).Edited by Derra on April 21, 2017 6:53AM<Noricum>
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Derra - DC - Sorc - AvA 50
Derrah - EP - Sorc - AvA 500 -
Jawasa✭✭✭But fact is that all classes get generl sustain nerfs and tons of class nerfs on top of that. But sorc are left untouched. For example how will magdk sustain now or survive in la? But We will all see How this plays out if warden and/or sorc overperforme I'll just play that.1
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Dracane✭✭✭✭✭
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Sorcs would just switch to Restro Ult instead if Pirates was nerfed...So nerfing Pirates won't do it
Simply nerf Protection to not work on Shields.
Simple Fix
Ah yes
You want CP mitigation to not work on shield. God, you are so full of hate and selfishness. It's sickening me to read
And if they were to use a resto ult, then they had no offensive ult and I think it's mostly unlikely to kill many opponents without an offensive ult.
I wouldn't mind pirate itself not working on shields, or just changing how it works.I don't know anyone besides wanna-be good sorcs who use this set.Edited by Dracane on April 21, 2017 10:46AMAuri-El is my lord,
Trinimac is my shield,
Magnus is my mind.
My debut album on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@Gleandra/videos1 -
GrigorijMalahevich✭✭✭✭✭Micro management - is management of every individual aspect (like having 5 pets and giving them separate orders) of your game management (resources, skills, targets, pets, positioning) and macro management is your whole strategy (shield stack, wait for burst, etc.) when to retreat and when to engage.
This game has extremely low level of micro management, there isn't anything to do. Ordering your pet to stay next to you or focus any specific target is the maximum of what you can do in this game, which in global scale of real understanding what micro management - is just silly. Stop it, please. If you really want to be *** about this go to utube and write in search "micro starcraft" and be amazed.As a person that spent more than 10 years in competitive RTS games (Starcraft; Warcraft 3; Starcraft 2) just trust me on this one. If you have in your possession any of these games, I would be more than happy to back my words with some demonstration/actions.
Macro management is your overall strategy and counter actions to builds/skills/actions of your opponents. Blocking/shieldstacking/dodging 22k frags is part of macro, not micro, as it requires understanding what to do to counter it and just implementation of your counter actions. If you are unable to counter 22k frags then your macro strategy needs work, not micro
Sorry for this rant, but it really pisses me off to read @Dracane bragging about his/hers uber micro management...
#fixstreak
PC/EU 800 CP.
PvP MagSorc.Pedro Gonzales - Mag Sorc EP vMA Flawless Conqueror clear http://imgur.com/a/CB6j6
Valera Progib - Stam Sorc DC vMA Flawless Conqueror clear https://i.imgur.com/eYgpXG2.png
Valera Pozhar - Mag DK EP vMA Flawless Conqueror clear http://imgur.com/a/jrsuK
Valera Podlechi - Mag Templar AD vMA Flawless Conqueror clear http://imgur.com/a/N0BYq2 -
RinaldoGandolphi✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭
Sorcs would just switch to Restro Ult instead if Pirates was nerfed...So nerfing Pirates won't do it
Simply nerf Protection to not work on Shields.
Simple Fix
Ah yes You want CP mitigation to not work on shield. God, you are so full of hate and selfishness. It's sickening me to read
And if they were to use a resto ult, then they had no offensive ult and I think it's mostly unlikely to kill many opponents without an offensive ult.
I wouldn't mind pirate itself not working on shields, or just changing how it works.I don't know anyone besides wanna-be good sorcs who use this set.
@Dracane
the ONLY TIME I ever consider using Pirate is when im stupidly outnumbered, having been zerged down by 5-6 potatoes a few times, then i'll equip it and "Even the odds" and kick their faces in. Once that's done, i'll move somewhere else on the map and switch to a different set.
Pirate Skeleton gets a lot of hate, but its honestly only useful when fighting outnumbered. In 1v1 or even 2v1 fights its doesn't really proc a lot with its low chance, however the more people you have attacking you, the better the chances of getting the damage reduction hence why you see some of the more popular 1Vxers using it.
I wouldn't be against them changing Pirate, it probably is over performing,. but they also need to stop making the game favor outnumbering your opposition. They just keep buffing the outnumbering party its getting ridiclious at this point.
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Dracane✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Valera Progib wrote: »Micro management - is management of every individual aspect (like having 5 pets and giving them separate orders) of your game management (resources, skills, targets, pets, positioning) and macro management is your whole strategy (shield stack, wait for burst, etc.) when to retreat and when to engage.
This game has extremely low level of micro management, there isn't anything to do. Ordering your pet to stay next to you or focus any specific target is the maximum of what you can do in this game, which in global scale of real understanding what micro management - is just silly. Stop it, please. If you really want to be *** about this go to utube and write in search "micro starcraft" and be amazed.As a person that spent more than 10 years in competitive RTS games (Starcraft; Warcraft 3; Starcraft 2) just trust me on this one. If you have in your possession any of these games, I would be more than happy to back my words with some demonstration/actions.
Macro management is your overall strategy and counter actions to builds/skills/actions of your opponents. Blocking/shieldstacking/dodging 22k frags is part of macro, not micro, as it requires understanding what to do to counter it and just implementation of your counter actions. If you are unable to counter 22k frags then your macro strategy needs work, not micro
Sorry for this rant, but it really pisses me off to read @Dracane bragging about his/hers uber micro management...
#fixstreak
I'm not and I haven't even spoken about myself.
I just concluded, that managing shields requires attention and management. I also said, that Micromanagent is probably the wrong word. I don't shieldstack, so I don't need to manage much.Auri-El is my lord,
Trinimac is my shield,
Magnus is my mind.
My debut album on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@Gleandra/videos0 -
Strider_Roshin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Lol this discussion has gone from a debate of ideas to a battle over semantics 0 -
Malamar1229✭✭✭✭✭
✭
Sorcs would just switch to Restro Ult instead if Pirates was nerfed...So nerfing Pirates won't do it
Simply nerf Protection to not work on Shields.
Simple Fix
Light of Champion has the same duration as a single shield stack rotation. Pirate Skeleton has consistent uptime. There's a big difference between the two.
EDIT: I'm against your proposition because I believe shields should recieve major protection from balanced sources. Pirate Skeleton in it's own right is overperforming, and allows more then just mag sorcs to have consistent ease of tankyness. Major Protection buff should not be coming from a set piece.
@Xsorus
apple and oranges. I use resto ult and it comes at a cost.....not using other ults (eye of storm, meteor etc). The bone pirate rabbits dont have that drawback.0 -
Malamar1229✭✭✭✭✭
✭you guys get my thread locked and imma mirco manage my hands slapping across yur faces1 -
Beardimus✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭LOL ^ True dat its the first decent thread about wards that speaks sense let's not derail too far Xbox One | EU | EP
Beardimus : VR16 Dunmer MagSorc [RIP MagDW 2015-2018]
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Bëardimus : L43 Dunmer Magsorc / BG
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Beardimus le 13iem : L30 Dunmer Magsorc Icereach0 -
Xsorus✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Malamar1229 wrote: »
Sorcs would just switch to Restro Ult instead if Pirates was nerfed...So nerfing Pirates won't do it
Simply nerf Protection to not work on Shields.
Simple Fix
Light of Champion has the same duration as a single shield stack rotation. Pirate Skeleton has consistent uptime. There's a big difference between the two.
EDIT: I'm against your proposition because I believe shields should recieve major protection from balanced sources. Pirate Skeleton in it's own right is overperforming, and allows more then just mag sorcs to have consistent ease of tankyness. Major Protection buff should not be coming from a set piece.
@Xsorus
apple and oranges. I use resto ult and it comes at a cost.....not using other ults (eye of storm, meteor etc). The bone pirate rabbits dont have that drawback.
Pirates doesn't give you a bloody massive damage boost and a heal like Restro Ult either..
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXpX7JMwRXtczc5GTrIYRIw
ESO and GW2 PvP videos0 -
Malamar1229✭✭✭✭✭
✭Malamar1229 wrote: »
Sorcs would just switch to Restro Ult instead if Pirates was nerfed...So nerfing Pirates won't do it
Simply nerf Protection to not work on Shields.
Simple Fix
Light of Champion has the same duration as a single shield stack rotation. Pirate Skeleton has consistent uptime. There's a big difference between the two.
EDIT: I'm against your proposition because I believe shields should recieve major protection from balanced sources. Pirate Skeleton in it's own right is overperforming, and allows more then just mag sorcs to have consistent ease of tankyness. Major Protection buff should not be coming from a set piece.
@Xsorus
apple and oranges. I use resto ult and it comes at a cost.....not using other ults (eye of storm, meteor etc). The bone pirate rabbits dont have that drawback.
Pirates doesn't give you a bloody massive damage boost and a heal like Restro Ult either..
pigeon holes you into using a resto staff....And thats a crit dmg boost for 6 seconds.0 -
Xsorus✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Malamar1229 wrote: »Malamar1229 wrote: »
Sorcs would just switch to Restro Ult instead if Pirates was nerfed...So nerfing Pirates won't do it
Simply nerf Protection to not work on Shields.
Simple Fix
Light of Champion has the same duration as a single shield stack rotation. Pirate Skeleton has consistent uptime. There's a big difference between the two.
EDIT: I'm against your proposition because I believe shields should recieve major protection from balanced sources. Pirate Skeleton in it's own right is overperforming, and allows more then just mag sorcs to have consistent ease of tankyness. Major Protection buff should not be coming from a set piece.
@Xsorus
apple and oranges. I use resto ult and it comes at a cost.....not using other ults (eye of storm, meteor etc). The bone pirate rabbits dont have that drawback.
Pirates doesn't give you a bloody massive damage boost and a heal like Restro Ult either..
pigeon holes you into using a resto staff....And thats a crit dmg boost for 6 seconds.
I mean....why wouldn't you use a Restro Staff as a Sorc?.......I'm talking about PvP of course...I understand you can get by without it in PVE but you honestly should always be running a Restro Staffhttps://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXpX7JMwRXtczc5GTrIYRIw
ESO and GW2 PvP videos0 -
Lord_Hev✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Malamar1229 wrote: »
Sorcs would just switch to Restro Ult instead if Pirates was nerfed...So nerfing Pirates won't do it
Simply nerf Protection to not work on Shields.
Simple Fix
Light of Champion has the same duration as a single shield stack rotation. Pirate Skeleton has consistent uptime. There's a big difference between the two.
EDIT: I'm against your proposition because I believe shields should recieve major protection from balanced sources. Pirate Skeleton in it's own right is overperforming, and allows more then just mag sorcs to have consistent ease of tankyness. Major Protection buff should not be coming from a set piece.
@Xsorus
apple and oranges. I use resto ult and it comes at a cost.....not using other ults (eye of storm, meteor etc). The bone pirate rabbits dont have that drawback.
Pirates doesn't give you a bloody massive damage boost and a heal like Restro Ult either..
Resto ult needs a nerf too.
Templars, DKs, NBs, and Wardens all have access to pirate skeleton and resto ult. Nerf the overpowering mechanics, not the sorc's core and singular only defense mechanic.
Edited by Lord_Hev on April 21, 2017 9:50PM0 -
Xsorus✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Malamar1229 wrote: »
Sorcs would just switch to Restro Ult instead if Pirates was nerfed...So nerfing Pirates won't do it
Simply nerf Protection to not work on Shields.
Simple Fix
Light of Champion has the same duration as a single shield stack rotation. Pirate Skeleton has consistent uptime. There's a big difference between the two.
EDIT: I'm against your proposition because I believe shields should recieve major protection from balanced sources. Pirate Skeleton in it's own right is overperforming, and allows more then just mag sorcs to have consistent ease of tankyness. Major Protection buff should not be coming from a set piece.
@Xsorus
apple and oranges. I use resto ult and it comes at a cost.....not using other ults (eye of storm, meteor etc). The bone pirate rabbits dont have that drawback.
Pirates doesn't give you a bloody massive damage boost and a heal like Restro Ult either..
Resto ult needs a nerf too.
Templars, DKs, and NBs all have access to pirate skeleton and resto ult. Nerf the overpowering mechanics, not the sorc;s core and singular only defense mechanic.
Templars/Dks/NBs don't all have Hardened Ward...Nor does it take into account Stamina Builds, and everyone of them ate a nerf this patch.....https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXpX7JMwRXtczc5GTrIYRIw
ESO and GW2 PvP videos0 -
Malamar1229✭✭✭✭✭
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I mean....why wouldn't you use a Restro Staff as a Sorc?.......I'm talking about PvP of course...I understand you can get by without it in PVE but you honestly should always be running a Restro Staff
Kinda sad ain't it?
Limited Options. Etc
You said it.
Pirate's has a much longer uptime even at 5%, the resto ult lasts for 6 seconds and like I said, keeps you from using an offensive ultimate. When you got targets dodging/missing/rolling/stunning you etc it's not really a solid arguing point you got.
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Lord_Hev✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Malamar1229 wrote: »
Sorcs would just switch to Restro Ult instead if Pirates was nerfed...So nerfing Pirates won't do it
Simply nerf Protection to not work on Shields.
Simple Fix
Light of Champion has the same duration as a single shield stack rotation. Pirate Skeleton has consistent uptime. There's a big difference between the two.
EDIT: I'm against your proposition because I believe shields should recieve major protection from balanced sources. Pirate Skeleton in it's own right is overperforming, and allows more then just mag sorcs to have consistent ease of tankyness. Major Protection buff should not be coming from a set piece.
@Xsorus
apple and oranges. I use resto ult and it comes at a cost.....not using other ults (eye of storm, meteor etc). The bone pirate rabbits dont have that drawback.
Pirates doesn't give you a bloody massive damage boost and a heal like Restro Ult either..
Resto ult needs a nerf too.
Templars, DKs, and NBs all have access to pirate skeleton and resto ult. Nerf the overpowering mechanics, not the sorc;s core and singular only defense mechanic.
Templars/Dks/NBs don't all have Hardened Ward...Nor does it take into account Stamina Builds, and everyone of them ate a nerf this patch.....
None of which has to do with pirate skeleton and resto ult being overpowered.0 -
Magıc✭✭✭✭✭
Sorcs would just switch to Restro Ult instead if Pirates was nerfed...So nerfing Pirates won't do it
Simply nerf Protection to not work on Shields.
Simple Fix
Ah yes You want CP mitigation to not work on shield. God, you are so full of hate and selfishness. It's sickening me to read
And if they were to use a resto ult, then they had no offensive ult and I think it's mostly unlikely to kill many opponents without an offensive ult.
I wouldn't mind pirate itself not working on shields, or just changing how it works.I don't know anyone besides wanna-be good sorcs who use this set.
You're pretty much calling every good sorc apart from you and Derra (afaik every other good sorc in EU runs it) a "wanna-be good sorc." You might want to retract that statement.Edited by Magıc on April 21, 2017 9:54PM0
