Casuals ruined pledges.

WildWilbur

Sorry, it's german, but I just have to remember the good old days: HASL MOWL HAB 50 AVA!!11

Zoner

So tired of hearing 'casuals ruin the game' 'no f**k you elitists ruin the game'.

Neither are true.

If you are ALWAYS joining groups that can't clear vet dungeons, the problem might be you. As always with challenges in this game or anything else, if something is not working, take stock of your experience, go take some time to figure out what the problem is, and try to fix it. Is your dps s**t? Ask a friend whose dps isn't s**t for some advice, or go look it up. You will never improve if you don't take steps to remedy the situation. Most high cp or high dps players in the game are not a**holes and will not mind answering a few questions.

Every 'elitist' started as a n00b and worked their way up. You will get better if you put in the effort.

Also: not every person who doesn't want to carry you is an elitist d-bag. It's tiring seeing people who won't take advice or change anything ripping on more experienced players because they don't want to carry their dead weight through vet dlc dungeons. 'You won't carry me, you're an elitist who's ruining the game'. Oh, f*** off. High level players do not mind helping but they don't always have the time or patience to drag you through and then watch you scurry to hit that hard mode scroll at the end when you're not contributing anything.

Middle ground

[Deleted User]

The user and all related content has been deleted.

Curragraigue

Flameheart wrote: »

Actually I somewhat understand the rant of the TO, also I think that the issue isn't just CP related.

...but maybe I am the only one which is buffled each time in a PUG when:

- a CP 28 shows up in a vet Group as a DD (no not as a tank or healer where he might be in fact usefull if he would know how to play such a role). To be honest I would not dare to queue up for a vet pug as a DD before getting at least CP 160 and wearing CP 160 gear.
- that low CP is no excuse at all for totally lacking the ability to comprehend the most simple mechanics (slotting some AoE skills, just light attacking isn't the best dps, queuing up hard cast fragments isn't the best way to do dps as a Sorc etc.).
- I even remember the same rude behaviour the TO mentioned in his post. People which are a burden for the group, but you neveretheless give that a try, but they bust the group not just because of CPs but because of lacking even the basic knowledge for any game mechanic and end up insulting others and never admit own mistakes.

As on this forum the general opinion seems to be that "all vet instances except the DLC ones are utter easy", I am always surprized how many people do not know or can't avoid the simplest game mechanics. I can't describe how many CP 300+ guys I met in Direfrost yesterday who couldn't avoid Drodda's AoE after porting or could not break free, because no stamina left (and the healer was too snobby to throw a single spear..)

So a nice "L2p" from me and put your anti-elitism garbage speak somewhere where no sun shines.

Before having a really smooth run I did two Direfrost PUG runs where the DPS and heals would die during the drain and not break free despite repeated requests that they break free. Also had one DPS that 90% of the time he would roll from one edge of the AoE into the middle of the AoE to die...

Vipstaakki

I feel you. Those filthy casuals wearing medium armor and playing with their dual-wield doing the dungeons the easy way.
They really need to L2P before even considering playing the dungeons with people who want challenge.

zaria

Vipstaakki wrote: »

I feel you. Those filthy casuals wearing medium armor and playing with their dual-wield doing the dungeons the easy way.
They really need to L2P before even considering playing the dungeons with people who want challenge.

Also, say no to the gear grind, go nude.

KerinKor

Gordon906 wrote: »

This cp34 guy

Because 126 CPs makes a HUGE difference to their numbers .. LOL, this was one guy in the group, if the group failed repeatedly then clearly it wasn't just down to him.

Flameheart

zaria wrote: »

Vipstaakki wrote: »

I feel you. Those filthy casuals wearing medium armor and playing with their dual-wield doing the dungeons the easy way.
They really need to L2P before even considering playing the dungeons with people who want challenge.

Also, say no to the gear grind, go nude.

I am actually suprized in a positive way if a low CPler using a stamina build wears medium armor and has at least a dualwield bar. My personal experience tells me CP 300+ twohanded user at the netch in DC2 or bow/bow builds.

You forgot: No buff food and 10k life.

My personal improvement suggestion for this game would be that every boss who kills such a guy emits a special phrase underlayed with laughter.

"you took the wrong junction"
"it's so wrong that you are here, but I will fix that"
"you again ?"
"my advice is to leave and kill a few thousand skeevers again"

This might add a few million hits for a lot of new YouTube Videos.

GrigorijMalahevich

Get gud kiddo.

Problem with casuals - do pledges with friends, no friends - hahaha, one can see why.

When it comes to pledges casuals are ok. The problem is with people that "think" they are good.

anitajoneb17_ESO

Zoner wrote: »

Middle ground

What middle ground ? Your argumentation is 100% on the "git gud" side.

mb10

Imagine a 340cp yesterday didn't know how to break free from the last boss in dire frost keep.

I don't care what anyone says if you don't have a proper rank or title, I'm not playing end game with you. I don't have much time to play and I'm definitely not wasting it on lower skilled players.

We all improved the hard way and I knew vet Icp first came out that I wasn't good enough for it. Now im a much better player that steamrolls through it and other content within the game like vet trials.

Just understand your ability and stick to your own lane until you improve

anitajoneb17_ESO

mb10 wrote: »

I don't care what anyone says if you don't have a proper rank or title, I'm not playing end game with you. I don't have much time to play and I'm definitely not wasting it on lower skilled players. .../...
Just understand your ability and stick to your own lane until you improve

Fine. Apply that to yourself : stick to your own lane and DO NOT PUG.

Zoner

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

Zoner wrote: »

Middle ground

What middle ground ? Your argumentation is 100% on the "git gud" side.

No it isn't. It's trying to get across that there's no problem with casuals willing to learn and improve. Maybe I didn't explain it well

Valkyriaza

So let me get this right. The moaning and the bitching from those who had invested their time heavily in the game is somehow the be all and the end all judgement on how to play this game? I don't have a lot of time to dedicate to the game, which makes me a casual who plays for fun.
So what's wrong with being a casual? Not everyone has the time to invest in mastering the nuances of their class to the nth degree or the rotations? That's not a reason to kick people because they don't conform to some sort of the 'standard'. Especially on the normal dungeons which are supposedly are there to help you get acquainted with group dungeons and their mechanics.

Then again, I observed someone quit a dungeon because the other dd was using Crystal frag and light attacks, that's not even as a result of something taking extra time or any deaths.

Rokkar8

I started playing eso without friends who played the game and I was a complete noob, tip for a new player is to put on a shield or resto staff and que as healer or a tank. This way you learn the game and machanics and farm sets for if you wanna go dps later. All classes can do this in dungeons.
The pain is real when it takes 10 mins to finish a trash pull.
I pugged farming for bone pirate gear and its usually the dps thats bad or it shows better when the dps is bad as stuff just takes ages to die. About 50 % of the runs Ill have to take the shield off and go dps for us to manage to finish the dungeon, and I only do 22 k self buffed as a stam nb (cp400). So I have my doubts that players who dont activly reaserch builds/rotations and get good sets and gold wepons even break 10 k self buffed. Point being is that if you want to enjoy late game content you need to make an effort yourself, people just dont want to waste their time. Kudos to all the awsome players I have met and have helped me the last 6 months and I try to return the favor to new players.

Valkyriaza

There is a big difference between having a decent set of gear (not top notch) and having a little skill from playing for a while so you have an idea what your skills do to researching and grinding for gear/sets/weapons so your DPS is above 20K. Grinding takes away from it. Learn by all means, but stop complaining about other people's DPS when you finish a dungeon in less than 8 minutes without a single person dying.

Having said that there are plenty of people who are nice enough to explain things such as mechanics and don't moan at the fact that you're below CP500 every single time. (My first time White Gold Tower on normal was like that. Took me ages to not groan every time I got it as a pledge)

Appleblade

And this is why I play solo or coop with close friends. There's enough nonsense in life and the world without intentionally wading into the kiddie pool of weaponized personality disorders.

Wifeaggro13

dday3six wrote: »

It's complicated. I consider a person to be causal if they don't take time to learn anything deeper than what's on the surface. Normally this isn't big of a deal, most games do a decent job of showcasing the basics and onward, but ESO doesn't. So there is a large gap between even the floor and the middle, let alone the ceiling. For the majority of content that doesn't matter. Then suddenly in dungeons the 'it doesn't matter what attack I spam' approach is not longer adequate. All at once the lack of effort put into a synergistic setup smacks players around.

Nothing in the game prepares a player for dungeons and especially not endgame. I think that's in part lazy development, but at the same time the cost of so much player choice combined with so low a ceiling. Not just non-max/min or unoptimized, player's have a lot of freedom to be genuinely bad.Then game strives to conceal indications of inefficiencies. There's not even a brush over of combat roles. Overland content is easy, and level scaling removes a directly visible need for character progression. Combat is clearly based around rotations, but unless a player knew about this concept from another place, ESO would happily leave them none the wiser. Even damage numbers were not added until later.

So while I would agree causals are a 'problem', at the same time I would also say ESO feigns one experience and later swaps it for another.

Spot on 100% , the shift really came when they fired some key devs the game has taken a drastic turn. Matt no longer back peddles from his this is an RPG you play online like he did prior to launch when the community became concerned this would not be a true MMO.. he no longer really talks about this being a MMO anymore actually now that Paul is gone. the content and game itself does not even Remotely resemble the game it was in late 2015. 95% of this game is just a medicore RPG with other players around . there is very little need or incentive to interact with the community. If i want to play a RPG based on story with a open world ill go play the witcher.

idk

IcyDeadPeople wrote: »

I suspect if all of us casuals stopped doing the pledges entirely, then the hardcore "professionals" would rarely find enough people to group with.
.

This would be the case yet the people who call for kicking casuals and complain about players not having X CP just do not get it. What they also do not get is they are not that great of a player either or they could carry that low CP/casual.

Funny story, in a random vet dungeon the healer went to kick a CP 100 player. Quit because no one voted to kick. We 3 manned the dungeon with the low CP and the CP 500 dps off healed. No issues. No wipes.

Just shows that the issue presented by these that think they are so much better than casuals really is not an issue outside of a couple DLC dungeons maybe.

If they do not like the groups they get in GF they can form outside of GF. That is the alternative designed in the game. Then they can more easily get players to help carry them through the dungeons.

altemriel

Nope, elitists are ruining everything!!! by taking the game way too serious!!!

come on, it is just a game!!

Catnight

The problem here is - as mentioned before - the huge difference in difficulty from open world content to dungeons.
We need a higer difficultly at the normal open world. Every time my friend (who played ESO since launch) mentions, that Mob XY I just killed with a few attcks without taking damage had different phases and was so much stronger back there I am like "WHY??? Why on earth were they nerfed so badly??" I am a player who learns by doing challenging content (and failing, I think its part of learning) but Im now standing at the edge of a wide canyon with dungeons being on the other side with nothing between.
I (try to, because mostly someone else comes by) doing world bosses solo and doing quite well there but I dont know if this could match dungeon experience... probably not.
My friend doesn't like doing dungeons, so Im not doing them quite often and Im learning slow too. By the way, im cp230.
Beside the problems with the group finder "at the moment" and my bug of ongoing attacks from enemies sometimes arent displayed, I cannot see myself doing dungeons as a good player beacuse I have nothing which could train me to get good enough.

...Should I start doing MA/VMA to get better?

raglau

Generally I don't have issues in PUGs, and I quite like PUGs even though I am in an excellent guild, just because I get to meet new people.

But for some reason this evening, tanking vet Waywrest II for the pledge, 3 groups in a row consisted of people who did not know about the altars in Malubeth. I don't really understand that, the mechanic is the same in vet as in normal, so it strongly implies they've jumped straight to the vet version of a dungeon without learning mechs on normal mode. That to me seems an odd strategy to adopt for a game, and it is a bit selfish to put yourself into a vet team if you've not bothered to do a quick run through on normal to familiarise yourself with mechs. I mean, it's like 15 mins to finish a normal mode dungeon when you're at a level suited to vet runs, just invest that time, it's a no-brainer.

I did tell these people about the altars and they did in fact deal with the issue next time in all cases. But each time the healer left because these DDs also stood in the red and died repeatedly in all 3 runs, so I left, because the new Finder is so broken it will never replace a player who leaves mid-game.

Magdalina

Catnight wrote: »

The problem here is - as mentioned before - the huge difference in difficulty from open world content to dungeons.
We need a higer difficultly at the normal open world. Every time my friend (who played ESO since launch) mentions, that Mob XY I just killed with a few attcks without taking damage had different phases and was so much stronger back there I am like "WHY??? Why on earth were they nerfed so badly??" I am a player who learns by doing challenging content (and failing, I think its part of learning) but Im now standing at the edge of a wide canyon with dungeons being on the other side with nothing between.
I (try to, because mostly someone else comes by) doing world bosses solo and doing quite well there but I dont know if this could match dungeon experience... probably not.
My friend doesn't like doing dungeons, so Im not doing them quite often and Im learning slow too. By the way, im cp230.
Beside the problems with the group finder "at the moment" and my bug of ongoing attacks from enemies sometimes arent displayed, I cannot see myself doing dungeons as a good player beacuse I have nothing which could train me to get good enough.

...Should I start doing MA/VMA to get better?

@Catnight - what platform are you on? If you're PC I can show you the ropes

flguy147ub17_ESO

Had a totally Elitist punk in normal City of Ash the other day. We zone in and he is the only 600 CP person in the group. He goes "oh gosh do you guys even know what you are doing in here?". He keeps being kinda rude and then a guy grabs a chest and he goes "There is always one reject idiot in the group, i have treasure hunter you reject". Then i snapped and went off on him, He shut up the rest of the way. We finished the dungeon within probably 10 minutes with no deaths. What he didnt know is i play on Console now but was in PC beta and PC launch and have been playing this game almost twice as long as him. This is the stuff that makes me not want to group with people, i can deal with a player who is trying but just isnt knowledgeable of the game but bad attitudes kill it for me.

[Deleted User]

The user and all related content has been deleted.

Apherius

Gordon906 wrote: »

Theyre all over the place, those under cp160 farmers in vet dungeon and they get mad when someone calls them out. They brag about their life and how you take it too seriously. If you're a casual than why would you do dlc vet dungeons? This cp34 guy was so pissed because he failed to defeat a boss many times in vet ruins of mazzatun(we left because gear repair cost) that he private messaged me and wished that I get "gunned down" then he ignored :P not even once.

an cp 86 pug left the group when we wanted to explain him how to defait boss and how to " grab " mobs ... because the formation of the group was too long ( he waited 6 minutes ) . i tried to tell him that a lot of players don't take the time to explain the strategy and that he was lucky to find us .. then at the end of the discussion he tell me :

and after that he said me that he would repport me for insult .. i know that i don't put the rest of the discussion , but it's because the last time a post the picture of my dicussion ... my comment been deleted because this was "innapropriate "

altemriel

Apherius wrote: »

Gordon906 wrote: »

Theyre all over the place, those under cp160 farmers in vet dungeon and they get mad when someone calls them out. They brag about their life and how you take it too seriously. If you're a casual than why would you do dlc vet dungeons? This cp34 guy was so pissed because he failed to defeat a boss many times in vet ruins of mazzatun(we left because gear repair cost) that he private messaged me and wished that I get "gunned down" then he ignored :P not even once.

an cp 86 pug left the group when we wanted to explain him how to defait boss and how to " grab " mobs ... because the formation of the group was too long ( he waited 6 minutes ) . i tried to tell him that a lot of players don't take the time to explain the strategy and that he was lucky to find us .. then at the end of the discussion he tell me :

and after that he said me that he would repport me for insult .. i know that i don't put the rest of the discussion , but it's because the last time a post the picture of my dicussion ... my comment been deleted because this was "innapropriate "

ignore list is your friend

alexkdd99

Asardes wrote: »

If you queue expecting Dro'm-athra Destroyers and Flawless Conquerors melting everything in 10s

No but you should be able to expect others to carry their own weight. Use to be in mmo's people didn't want to be the person dragging everyone else down and people wouldn't enter group content until they were ready for it.

So while I don't expect some elite pro gamer, I do expect people to carry their own weight and fulfill the role THEY chose. After all if I am pulling my own weight, why shouldn't the rest of my team do the same.

zaria

altemriel wrote: »

Apherius wrote: »

Gordon906 wrote: »

Theyre all over the place, those under cp160 farmers in vet dungeon and they get mad when someone calls them out. They brag about their life and how you take it too seriously. If you're a casual than why would you do dlc vet dungeons? This cp34 guy was so pissed because he failed to defeat a boss many times in vet ruins of mazzatun(we left because gear repair cost) that he private messaged me and wished that I get "gunned down" then he ignored :P not even once.

an cp 86 pug left the group when we wanted to explain him how to defait boss and how to " grab " mobs ... because the formation of the group was too long ( he waited 6 minutes ) . i tried to tell him that a lot of players don't take the time to explain the strategy and that he was lucky to find us .. then at the end of the discussion he tell me :

and after that he said me that he would repport me for insult .. i know that i don't put the rest of the discussion , but it's because the last time a post the picture of my dicussion ... my comment been deleted because this was "innapropriate "

ignore list is your friend

Report, then ignore.

Funny I have only run into one toxic player and that was pretty sad, the boss where you get an link and have to run in different directions. He did not get it and wanted to kick me as healer because he died.
We other three was guild group on voice

Found that most good players tries to explain things, tries some times then give up if group is too weak.
The ones who get toxic tend to be the ones who want to be carried.

zaria

praglaud wrote: »

Generally I don't have issues in PUGs, and I quite like PUGs even though I am in an excellent guild, just because I get to meet new people.

But for some reason this evening, tanking vet Waywrest II for the pledge, 3 groups in a row consisted of people who did not know about the altars in Malubeth. I don't really understand that, the mechanic is the same in vet as in normal, so it strongly implies they've jumped straight to the vet version of a dungeon without learning mechs on normal mode. That to me seems an odd strategy to adopt for a game, and it is a bit selfish to put yourself into a vet team if you've not bothered to do a quick run through on normal to familiarise yourself with mechs. I mean, it's like 15 mins to finish a normal mode dungeon when you're at a level suited to vet runs, just invest that time, it's a no-brainer.

I did tell these people about the altars and they did in fact deal with the issue next time in all cases. But each time the healer left because these DDs also stood in the red and died repeatedly in all 3 runs, so I left, because the new Finder is so broken it will never replace a player who leaves mid-game.

Standard MMO issue, in WOW it was lots of players wanted to skip the normal dungeons and go directly for heroic.
WOW is far more about gear level and progression, ESO is more about sets and player skill.