Not all classes have access to strong shields. For example a Stam NB tank will have no other option than bone shield. Same goes for a Stam Sorc tank, because ward scales of max magicka. Assuming a <15K magicka pool that shield will be <6K and have no group utility, like bone shield has.

Nope, the removal of veteran ranks and zones and the scaling of everyone and everything to 160CP in a dungeon did. This game used to have a learning curve.

I fondly remember having to tip-toe through Craglorn to do a survey because even wasps were dangerous. Delves in veteran zones actually gave you a "challenge", at least up to a point were you had to learn what skills worked best and that you had to interrupt or block some attacks.

This prepared you a bit for veteran dungeons. Nowadays the difference between overland and veteran content is way bigger which has lead to new players being baffled about the damage that veteran dungeon bosses do and that you can't kill them easily like a delve boss.

Just create a group yourself, problem fixed!

The Uninvited wrote: »

Nope, the removal of veteran ranks and zones and the scaling of everyone and everything to 160CP in a dungeon did. This game used to have a learning curve.

I fondly remember having to tip-toe through Craglorn to do a survey because even wasps were dangerous. Delves in veteran zones actually gave you a "challenge", at least up to a point were you had to learn what skills worked best and that you had to interrupt or block some attacks.

This prepared you a bit for veteran dungeons. Nowadays the difference between overland and veteran content is way bigger which has lead to new players being baffled about the damage that veteran dungeon bosses do and that you can't kill them easily like a delve boss.

To some degree, however back then veteran dungeons was the only game in town too at least until they scaled the normal dungeons to leader. so we had to learn veteran dungeons the hard way.
Nobody ever thought they was easy outside some hard core raiders.
Wiping 5 few times on the last boss or the harder ones was not an issue, then we disused tactic.

In short if you pug and expect an speed run, you are an idiot.
If you are so awesome why are you not in an guild with good players and run HM with them?
Is it because other will not run with you?

On the other hand its random dungeons who we did not have back then, we progressed to the content
The dungeons who came with craglorn was very hard as in would mostly fail.

I have tried two veteran after returning, Cradle of Shadows and healing on last boss in CoA2 with an mediocre group.
it did not work well
Now say vet Wayrest sewer one should work as I have done white gold tower and imperial prison in normal it it was easy but I would not pug it.

And yes its plenty of players who pug and hoping to be carried.

Veteran dungeons are hard for people who have no idea about how damage is calculated, how to keep their buffs up and how to pick and use gear appropriate for their role. DLC ones are impossible unless you have learned that and understood the mechanics. Therefore I have decided a long while back to avoid running with people who have not proven that they have learned to play well: friends, guild mates (my guild tests people who join), and people who can otherwise link achievements in certain dungeons. My time is too precious to waste. I expect 6 key pledge run time of between 40-90 minutes, depending on the dungeon combo. For example yesterday, because all 3 dungeons were short, I managed to do them all within 45 minutes per character. That's the advantage of not running with randoms. So stop whining about "casuals" and join a guild, or at least run with people you know and who are capable of running those dungeons fast and safe.

djdc1234 wrote: »

djdc1234 wrote: »

djdc1234 wrote: »

Gordon906 wrote: »

Theyre all over the place, those under cp160 farmers in vet dungeon and they get mad when someone calls them out. They brag about their life and how you take it too seriously. If you're a casual than why would you do dlc vet dungeons? This cp34 guy was so pissed because he failed to defeat a boss many times in vet ruins of mazzatun(we left because gear repair cost) that he private messaged me and wished that I get "gunned down" then he ignored :P not even once.

I personally try not to run with anyone under 300 in a vet pledge dungeon. Really depending on what's dungeon it is. Kick and Q

Then again there are some really bad 6 hundreds out there. Like last night white gold Tower three hours on vet I am never staying over an hour ever again. We went through multiple six hundreds they couldn't do the DPS for a 4 million HP boss. They couldn't Dodge the lightning wall none of them could it was so annoying. I've never had that much trouble in 5 months of playing this game. In the end I just quit and shut the box off period I've completed multiple white gold Tower vet runs with people who just melt the ads but last night was disgusting

I usually tank vwgt, when running it in my guild. I hold kena in the center, where she spawns. When the lightning wall phase comes up the dps goes to the outer ring and walk ahead of the lighting wall, while I hold her in their aoes. And they spam ranged attacks on her til it's over.

Why because they're low level this means they're farmers or casuals?

You've got to be kidding....


like really... you're joking right? RIGHT?

Dear god. The ego.

There are plenty of decent and casual players or new players who are good tanks, good dd's and good healers. But honestly the fact that you're bitching about this just makes you look pathetic. Seriously? "casuals". Christ man. Grow up. We all play games because we love them and enjoy them. If you want "professional" play then you're in the wrong game. DLC content is for EVERYONE, not just *** tryhards.

God damn it im so sick of this mentality you elitists have.

Tip: Go play starcraft competitively and get your ass handed too you by koreans, your outlook will change.

xeNNNNN wrote: »

DLC content is for EVERYONE, not just *** tryhards.

Now, excuse me, but that's where you're wrong.

DLC content is for tryhards. Especially vet, especially SotH.

I'm freaking tryhard, I admit it. I spent hours on reddit and google in general, reading how the game works and how my class works. Several days ago my guildie invited me to CoS for skin farming.

That. Was. An. Absolute. Nightmare.

I'm not above admitting that I'm a hella lucky gal who has chosed MagSorc, because Telvanni and pew-pew. Shields, range and dungeon buffing (why does finder scale me, btw, I'm CP340, is this a bug?) were the second reason I made it. The first was the other 3 glorious people, who are also freaking tryhards and know their roles on 100%. If at least one of us wasn't tryhard, we wouldn't make it even through simple vet.

Take it from the owner of ugly-af-omg-why-did-I-bother elite CoS skin: "casuals" will die in vCoS. Like. Flies.

Dranos Velandor is not for casuals. Good luck with dodging on his last phase with "casual" healer. And if you by some miracle manage... Ohoho. Enjoy vet Velidreth. Vet HM... You should never go there

Even normal is nightmarish. But at least there "casuals" can make it with CP powercreep. On vet? Nope. Git gut or git out, no way around it.

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

It would be interesting to see the complete picture of the conversations OP brings up. While some players have a temper and easily get riled up, we are only getting half the story here.

Last night was in a random vet dungeon and one DPS was barely CP100 The healer started a vote to kick as soon as we entered the dungeon. When it failed he/she left the group. We went on to 3 man the dungeon. Granted, it was not RoM, but OPs position starts off talking about vet dungeons in general.

Also, CP600 does not mean the player knows what they are doing.

Non-DLC vet dungeons are a joke (most can be soloed). Your analogy is pointless in this context. Vet RoM is impossible to complete if the entire team isn't CP 300+ (and even that might be too low).

altemriel wrote: »

Gordon906 wrote: »

Theyre all over the place, those under cp160 farmers in vet dungeon and they get mad when someone calls them out. They brag about their life and how you take it too seriously. If you're a casual than why would you do dlc vet dungeons? This cp34 guy was so pissed because he failed to defeat a boss many times in vet ruins of mazzatun(we left because gear repair cost) that he private messaged me and wished that I get "gunned down" then he ignored :P not even once.

you "pro-gamers"-wanna-bes take this game too serious, maybe you should relax and if you do not like the group, advice or just leave and find an another group

you somehow forgot that you also once were a newbie noob, right? and not everyone is a min-maxer, or a theorycrafter, some people just enjoy the game

No it annoys me that i have worked so hard on my gear rotation etc to come across a cp 600 using trapping webs with 2h destro.

People are bad and they should practice how they play. I hate entitled people who think they should get carried through and that they shouldnt have to improve.

Destyran wrote: »

altemriel wrote: »

Gordon906 wrote: »

Theyre all over the place, those under cp160 farmers in vet dungeon and they get mad when someone calls them out. They brag about their life and how you take it too seriously. If you're a casual than why would you do dlc vet dungeons? This cp34 guy was so pissed because he failed to defeat a boss many times in vet ruins of mazzatun(we left because gear repair cost) that he private messaged me and wished that I get "gunned down" then he ignored :P not even once.

you "pro-gamers"-wanna-bes take this game too serious, maybe you should relax and if you do not like the group, advice or just leave and find an another group

you somehow forgot that you also once were a newbie noob, right? and not everyone is a min-maxer, or a theorycrafter, some people just enjoy the game

No it annoys me that i have worked so hard on my gear rotation etc to come across a cp 600 using trapping webs with 2h destro.

People are bad and they should practice how they play. I hate entitled people who think they should get carried through and that they shouldnt have to improve.

I generally find those people using trapping webs and and 2h think they are good and dont need to be carried (when they clearly are bad and do), so it seems more an issue of ignorance than arrogance.

Gordon906 wrote: »

Theyre all over the place, those under cp160 farmers in vet dungeon and they get mad when someone calls them out. They brag about their life and how you take it too seriously. If you're a casual than why would you do dlc vet dungeons? This cp34 guy was so pissed because he failed to defeat a boss many times in vet ruins of mazzatun(we left because gear repair cost) that he private messaged me and wished that I get "gunned down" then he ignored :P not even once.

Cp 160 is not hard to reach people, having much lower cp does make the world of difference when you want to hard mode that boss for 2 keys.

Tasear wrote: »

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

When I see someone using Bone Shield it makes me laugh as I click "Vote to Kick".

Cause you don't get it

http://tamrielfoundry.com/topic/dark-priestess-pug-proof/

That's a really interesting build and I can see it work but my god, it's anything but PuG proof. Also, i'd get rid of the Healing Springs (unless you have a masters staff) and slot in some more damage though.

Actually I somewhat understand the rant of the TO, also I think that the issue isn't just CP related.

...but maybe I am the only one which is buffled each time in a PUG when:

- a CP 28 shows up in a vet group as a DD (no not as a tank or healer where he might be in fact usefull if he would know how to play such a role). To be honest I would not dare to queue up for a vet pug as a DD before getting at least CP 160 and wearing CP 160 gear.
- that low CP is no excuse at all for totally lacking the ability to comprehend the most simple mechanics (slotting some AoE skills, just light attacking isn't the best dps, queuing up hard cast fragments isn't the best way to do dps as a Sorc etc.).
- I even remember the same rude behaviour the TO mentioned in his post. People which are a burden for the group, but you neveretheless give that a try, but they bust the group not just because of CPs but because of lacking even the basic knowledge for any game mechanic and end up insulting others and never admit own mistakes.

As on this forum the general opinion seems to be that "all vet instances except the DLC ones are utter easy", I am always surprized how many people do not know or can't avoid the simplest game mechanics. I can't describe how many CP 300+ guys I met in Direfrost yesterday who couldn't avoid Drodda's AoE after porting or could not break free, because no stamina left (and the healer was too snobby to throw a single spear..)

So a nice "L2p" from me and put your anti-elitism garbage speak somewhere where the sun doesn't shine.