No CP in battlegrounds

Yubarius

SnubbS wrote: »

As much as I hate no cp pvp(and I hate it more than anyone I know), no cp battlegrounds is definitely the way to go.

Qyrk wrote: »

It will also make players be more thoughtful about their resources.

No, sustain is basically the exact same once you've adjusted your build. A Magdk for instance can run 2x Bloodspawn 5x Heavy Seducer, 5x Alteration & 1 Cost reduction and have basically endless sustain.

That's the point though, to change your build....

paulsimonps

I tested Battleground both with and without CP and without CP was without a doubt much more enjoyable and pretty much all of us that got to play test thought so. Some of us used Proc sets, others didn't some went with heavy armor, others didn't but regardless of what everyone did it still worked and we had large competitive fights where it was very even on all sides even though we had extremely diverse and unique group compositions. Healers running heavy and healers running light, it all worked. Medium, light and heavy DD all worked too and some of us went a bit tankier to help in other ways and it worked too and had their own places in the fights.

The CP made everyone really hard to kill and fights dragged on forever without much deaths at all and some of us didn't like the endless fight that didn't give one way or another. But without CP it was a lot more deaths cause messing up on your own part or getting out played caused you a lot more grief and you had to be more skilled as a player to succeed. We had to adept and play more strategically and not just spam attacks as best you could for 10min hoping to get at least one kill off.

This was very true in team death match, where it ended up being mostly a big ball of all 3 groups trying to focus one person down but self sustain and support for CP boosted healers made it hard to take out any one player. Its do able but I think it will be more fast paced and fun without CP where things actually happen a bit more, its more eventful and more skill based.

Sneaky-Snurr

Personally, no-CP with ZERO proc sets should be implemented by ZoS.
Then let's see how all these 'oh but no-CP is greatt!' people who use proc sets would like it if there are no said sets.

If you say CP is a 'crutch', then so is proc sets. Disable BOTH so now we'll have a much more leveled playing field.

Messy1

I am very onboard for no CP in battlegrounds and for PvP, but CP needs to be kept/adjusted/tweaked for PvE cause there are some hard portions of dungeons and trials.

KingJ

Sneaky-Snurr wrote: »

Personally, no-CP with ZERO proc sets should be implemented by ZoS.
Then let's see how all these 'oh but no-CP is greatt!' people who use proc sets would like it if there are no said sets.

If you say CP is a 'crutch', then so is proc sets. Disable BOTH so now we'll have a much more leveled playing field.

Completely agree I would love them doing this for Open world PVP and BattleGrounds make it skill base and not my armor did the damage for me.

MLGProPlayer

andreasranasen wrote: »

ESO turning into Guild Wars 2 with their horizontal progression...

Horizontal progression is superior to vertical progression because it rewards skill instead of time invested.

hmsdragonfly

Sneaky-Snurr wrote: »

Personally, no-CP with ZERO proc sets should be implemented by ZoS.
Then let's see how all these 'oh but no-CP is greatt!' people who use proc sets would like it if there are no said sets.

If you say CP is a 'crutch', then so is proc sets. Disable BOTH so now we'll have a much more leveled playing field.

Procset isn't that much of a big deal in no CP PvP anymore. Sure it's great in Xv1 where many procset users hit you at the same time so it's annoying, but in 1v1 or 1vX situations, proc set isn't that great compared to sets that boost your overall damage like Spriggan, Automaton etc.

Especially if you stack procsets, you will have 0 sustain.

DHale

KaiVox22 wrote: »

Why are people saying it's confirmed when Rich just said they're leaning towards it?

They are just trying to generate buzz and get people to get on the bandwagon and influence the Devs. That said, it's a meaningless gesture. I kept the same gear which is not even golded out for non cp and got like three times the number of kills. If you can't compete with cp you will never compete without it. The non cp week proved it beyond any doubt. But no doubt the fights will be quicker.

mechsauc3

Emma_Overload wrote: »

This is a disaster if it's true. ZOS is slapping long term players in the face if they completely remove CP from even one section of the game. It would be much better if they have CP and no-CP versions of the battlegrounds like they do for regular PvP.

or maybe they allow users with no cp, automatically gain the max amount of cp so they too wont be sub-par with people that does.. sort of how gw2 spvp are... everything is unlock for you.. but outside of that, you will still need to grind those skills

SaRuZ

Told ya.

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/325642/the-real-reason-for-no-cp-test#latest

,.!.,_/(^-^)\_,.!.,

Conspiracy theory my ASS! ZoS predictable af, indie devs yo.

Joy_Division

ZoS. Thanks for battlegrounds. Can you please tell me how exactly you plan of balancing stuff for 630 CPs without breaking them in 0 CPs?

Because I am not looking forward to 60% increase to my ability costs on cooldown. It's bad enough in Cyrodiil, but at least most people don't use resource poisons. Anyone who is competitive will use them in Battlegrounds.

Oh, and please do something with the terrible loot system here that requires 512 runs to get the only good trait weapon from a dungeon since I now need multiple gear sets.

Aquanova

Perhaps ZOS will remove poisons in BG as well. There's still plenty of time left to do so.

Chilly-McFreeze

KochDerDamonen wrote: »

Yes, CP is a crutch. It's free max resources, mitigation, damage, sustain, other little boons from the point stars... You can play a lot sloppier versus a person with lower CP than you than someone on a level field, in PvP. Whatever in Cyrodiil AvAvA where you have all sorts of gear, CP, and skill levels and masses of people skrimishing and clashing.

First, I didn't read past this comment so maybe you answered this later, but:
How is CP a crutch if CP600 fights another CP600? Or CP300 vs CP300? Or etc.? It's not that you get a more out of it than anybody else COULD if he spends his points right.

Also, some people tend to like progression if they play their char for a long time. Since Battlescaling from 1T the cp are the only thing that makes you feel a bit stronger. But again, if everybody has cp, they are all equally strong.

tylerit

Rohamad_Ali wrote: »

I don't understand the point in keeping the champion points system if they are not going to continue making content for it . Feels like a wasted grind . Ignoring it is not addressing the problem . This means gearing differently for some classes also . A pain as well and expensive .

I know it will help with balance making these no cp but some day the problem needs to corrected . Along with proc sets .

Are you talking about for specifically PVP in regard to content?

I mean, CP is a solid system for PVE, imo.

Chilly-McFreeze

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

andreasranasen wrote: »

ESO turning into Guild Wars 2 with their horizontal progression...

Horizontal progression is superior to vertical progression because it rewards skill instead of time invested.

Some people like the idea that their character get stronger when they "level" it. 1T's battlescaling did a good job in making everyone play together from the start but it killed to feeling of progression. Right now CP are the only thing that make's your char feel stronger. Some people tend to play ESO for the Elder Scrolls Part, not for the Death Match aspect.

ChildOfLight

Fasold666 wrote: »

Oh wow.....
So I guess everybody will use the same sustain sets and cost increase poisions? Sounds so great! Can't wait for it!

And run the same races. Redguard, HigElf. No point choosing otherwise.

Patro

It is wrong to remove Champion Points because skills and sets were balanced in relation to their

Sneaky-Snurr

hmsdragonfly wrote: »

Procset isn't that much of a big deal in no CP PvP anymore. Sure it's great in Xv1 where many procset users hit you at the same time so it's annoying, but in 1v1 or 1vX situations, proc set isn't that great compared to sets that boost your overall damage like Spriggan, Automaton etc.

Especially if you stack procsets, you will have 0 sustain.

@hmsdragonfly
I have to respectfully disagree, friend. With no CP points invested in damage mitigation, proc sets are usually BiS when it comes to killing players even when the proc sets are no longer able to crit.

And talking about sustain, you don't necessarily have to have ridiculous amounts of sustain to proc armour sets given how often they proc anyways regardless of the % shown.
In any given fight, you WILL proc at least once (and that's on a worst case scenario). It only takes one proc to burst down most of a target's health in Azura's Star. The remainder is either CC & burst or executes.

That said, proc sets provide a significant, 'free' DPS potential which is by no means a skillful play.
Bottomline, proc sets promote laziness and does no good for the players in developing their combat skills and intuition. They should be removed completely from the game like how it was back in the days, no proc sets and more player skills.

hmsdragonfly

Sneaky-Snurr wrote: »

hmsdragonfly wrote: »

Procset isn't that much of a big deal in no CP PvP anymore. Sure it's great in Xv1 where many procset users hit you at the same time so it's annoying, but in 1v1 or 1vX situations, proc set isn't that great compared to sets that boost your overall damage like Spriggan, Automaton etc.

Especially if you stack procsets, you will have 0 sustain.

@hmsdragonfly
I have to respectfully disagree, friend. With no CP points invested in damage mitigation, proc sets are usually BiS when it comes to killing players even when the proc sets are no longer able to crit.

And talking about sustain, you don't necessarily have to have ridiculous amounts of sustain to proc armour sets given how often they proc anyways regardless of the % shown.
In any given fight, you WILL proc at least once (and that's on a worst case scenario). It only takes one proc to burst down most of a target's health in Azura's Star. The remainder is either CC & burst or executes.

That said, proc sets provide a significant, 'free' DPS potential which is by no means a skillful play.
Bottomline, proc sets promote laziness and does no good for the players in developing their combat skills and intuition. They should be removed completely from the game like how it was back in the days, no proc sets and more player skills.

Most NB gankers i know have dropped viper for spriggan.

No CP points invested in damage mitigation affects everything, not just procsets.

" It only takes one proc to burst down most of a target's health in Azura's Star." -> I don't think that's true, at all. If procset can crit, yes that might be true, when it crit, but it doesn't, so 3k damage every 6 seconds is pointless in a 1v1 fight. Especially in a 1vX fight, procset is completely useless, since you lose the potential to burst people down when procset crits.

Procsets are still strong for certain buillds: example, red mountain on a stamsorc flurry build, viper on a stamplar POTL build etc, other than that, there are clearly better options now: spriggan, hulking, automaton etc to name a few.

I do agree that procsets encourage non-skillful plays. That's why I use spriggan instead

Cinbri

I don't know if it good or not. No CP is nice but next update reduce cost CP will be removed that will make cp builds less ***.

Arthg

It would be nice if:

Choice between CP and no-CP BGs were implemented.
Poison cost increases were reduced in no-CP combat.

Derra

great. now they only have to balance around 3 itemsets for magica - because everything else is flatout unusable. smart move zos.

Birdovic

Im all for No-cp Battlegrounds, it requires way more skill and gets rid of many cancerous builds (Like permablocking magplars with perma BOL casting, man, so annoying), while making room for much more build diversity.

BUT, if they will not remove those ridiculous 60% cost poisons from BG's, then I see no point in No-CP Battlegrounds, it's really going to ruin the experience.

All it does is force people into using the same boring Sets that offer cost reduction, like seducer and alteration, just to be able to keep the mindless ability spamming going, while poisons will be a MUST to be competitive.
Short: No-CP is way too unbalanced with poisons.


So to me, there are a couple ways this can go:
- No-CP Battlegrounds without Poisons (perfect)
- No-CP Battlegrounds with Poisons (hell no)
- CP Battlegrounds (not happy, but acceptable)

And then there is the option to make most people happy; separated Leaderboards for
- CP-enabled Battlegrounds (with poisons)
- "Classic" No-CP Battlegrounds (without poisons)


Edit:
For CP Campaigns its also important how the upcoming CP Changes will work out, let's say

- the new "Siphoner" removing cost reduction
- precise not affecting heals (and ults I think?)
- reduced recovery (100 point =15% not 25%)
- Roll dodge and break free being separated

At first sight, this makes me think, that Poisons now also ruin CP campaigns (and BG?)
for sure.

SnubbS

Yubarius wrote: »

SnubbS wrote: »

As much as I hate no cp pvp(and I hate it more than anyone I know), no cp battlegrounds is definitely the way to go.

Qyrk wrote: »

It will also make players be more thoughtful about their resources.

No, sustain is basically the exact same once you've adjusted your build. A Magdk for instance can run 2x Bloodspawn 5x Heavy Seducer, 5x Alteration & 1 Cost reduction and have basically endless sustain.

That's the point though, to change your build....

That doesn't do anything, though. You start with your standard cp build—you just add resource management until it's sustainable and voila. Where's the skill involved with crafting a cost reduction glyph, or spending 3mil ap on Alteration Mastery?

In CP PvP, in open world—you'll usually kill the other person before you run out of resources. So it's a game of damage at that point—hit your combos and one burst your opponent. Isn't hard at all really because there's no counterplay involved. In No-CP PvP open world—it's a case of just out sustaining the other person—first one to run out of resources loses. So it becomes a question of 'Which do you prefer?' For open world when I'm regularly fighting triple my numbers—I want the damage, you're not going to out sustain the 13 players that your 3 man group is fighting.

However, when it's a controlled environment I have a very different opinion—you don't need the massive burst if you're fighting with even numbers—and it hurts the effectiveness of healers/tanks which would obviously slow down the gameplay. On a small scale like this—damage can be lower and it will help the game. On a large scale it absolutely needs to be high—I'd say even higher than it is right now.

Waffennacht

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

andreasranasen wrote: »

ESO turning into Guild Wars 2 with their horizontal progression...

Horizontal progression is superior to vertical progression because it rewards skill instead of time invested.

You do realize you're playing an MMO RPG right? It's not suppose to be a fps

Sheuib

This drives me crazy all the people not wanting CP and talking about how much they hate it. But the CP campaign is still the one that gets pop locked. And most of the time the non-CP campaign is empty. What do you all expect ZOS to do when you say one thing in the forums but your actions show something different.

Leogon

Emma_Overload wrote: »

This is a disaster if it's true. ZOS is slapping long term players in the face if they completely remove CP from even one section of the game.

Speak for yourself, I'm at the CP cap and I'm glad they're leaning toward no-CP in BGs.

Waffennacht

Leogon wrote: »

Emma_Overload wrote: »

This is a disaster if it's true. ZOS is slapping long term players in the face if they completely remove CP from even one section of the game.

Speak for yourself, I'm at the CP cap and I'm glad they're leaning toward no-CPs in BG.

You are the minority, well until the rest of us leave, I already have one foot out the door

NordSwordnBoard

Have CP/no CP modes you que/group for, and also have poison/no poison modes subcategories within those two.

Or maybe allow the 12 players, once grouped into CP/non CP category, to vote on poisons being allowed or not in that particular match.

Kay1

andreasranasen wrote: »

ESO turning into Guild Wars 2 with their horizontal progression...

Not really, I doubt ESO ever reach GW2, GW2 is ten times more balanced in everything, there's no comparison between them.

No one confirmed BG's to be No CP but they will be, just like they will also be with CP they will add different playlist like the 100% of games out here if you believed that they are only going to release one game mode then you really need to learn some MMO culture.