No CP in battlegrounds

Pallmor

Looks like ZOS wants CP in PvP to go the way of the Dodo bird. Good riddance. If only they could get rid of all the exploits and balance the classes and skills better too, it might actually be fun.

IcyDeadPeople

I hope they offer both CP and non-CP modes.

However, after watching the ESO Live episode, I'm wondering if there are issues with designing the ranking/matchmaking system to account for two different modes like this, also ensuring enough people are queuing for the different rulesets, maps, character levels, vet vs non-vet, pre-made vs random groups etc.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Urtim2lU0gY

Cêltic421

Kay1 wrote: »

andreasranasen wrote: »

ESO turning into Guild Wars 2 with their horizontal progression...

Not really, I doubt ESO ever reach GW2, GW2 is ten times more balanced in everything, there's no comparison between them.

No one confirmed BG's to be No CP but they will be, just like they will also be with CP they will add different playlist like the 100% of games out here if you believed that they are only going to release one game mode then you really need to learn some MMO culture.

So did ZoS confirmed no CP in battlegrounds or did they not? I've seen nothing saying co will not be in battlegrounds but truth be told I haven't really looked. OP said it's been confirmed you say it has not. I doubt CP will go away in PvP. People like them to much. They have 1 campaign where there's no CP and that place never gets more than 1 bar full, that I have seen. Nothing is confirmed until ZoS says so in writing.

Kay1

Cêltic421 wrote: »

Kay1 wrote: »

andreasranasen wrote: »

ESO turning into Guild Wars 2 with their horizontal progression...

Not really, I doubt ESO ever reach GW2, GW2 is ten times more balanced in everything, there's no comparison between them.

No one confirmed BG's to be No CP but they will be, just like they will also be with CP they will add different playlist like the 100% of games out here if you believed that they are only going to release one game mode then you really need to learn some MMO culture.

So did ZoS confirmed no CP in battlegrounds or did they not? I've seen nothing saying co will not be in battlegrounds but truth be told I haven't really looked. OP said it's been confirmed you say it has not. I doubt CP will go away in PvP. People like them to much. They have 1 campaign where there's no CP and that place never gets more than 1 bar full, that I have seen. Nothing is confirmed until ZoS says so in writing.

No they didn't but is quite obvious that they will also add a no cp mode for battlegrounds look at all those zergy players that can't kill a stam dk solo with a group of 8, they can't just release battlegrounds and not do something for them.

Hopefully the ranked playlist will have CP ON otherwise my guild will just go full cancer to get #1.

Chilly-McFreeze

Kay1 wrote: »

Cêltic421 wrote: »

Kay1 wrote: »

andreasranasen wrote: »

ESO turning into Guild Wars 2 with their horizontal progression...

Not really, I doubt ESO ever reach GW2, GW2 is ten times more balanced in everything, there's no comparison between them.

No one confirmed BG's to be No CP but they will be, just like they will also be with CP they will add different playlist like the 100% of games out here if you believed that they are only going to release one game mode then you really need to learn some MMO culture.

So did ZoS confirmed no CP in battlegrounds or did they not? I've seen nothing saying co will not be in battlegrounds but truth be told I haven't really looked. OP said it's been confirmed you say it has not. I doubt CP will go away in PvP. People like them to much. They have 1 campaign where there's no CP and that place never gets more than 1 bar full, that I have seen. Nothing is confirmed until ZoS says so in writing.

No they didn't but is quite obvious that they will also add a no cp mode for battlegrounds look at all those zergy players that can't kill a stam dk solo with a group of 8, they can't just release battlegrounds and not do something for them.

Hopefully the ranked playlist will have CP ON otherwise my guild will just go full cancer to get #1.

That's something completly different. The inital discussion was not about if there is ALSO a no-cp BG but if there is ONLY no-cp.

NBrookus

Cêltic421 wrote: »

So did ZoS confirmed no CP in battlegrounds or did they not?

They did not. They said they were LEANING toward no CP.

I suspect they want to start battlegrounds with a single queue and leaderboard. They can always add more later, but if the queues are too long or there are too many max CP premades versus low level PUG matchups, it'll really hurt the popularity of battlegrounds right off the bat.

Chilly-McFreeze

And not even giving the opportunity to use your time-intensive gathered CP makes it popular by all?

I understand the que-argument, it fastens the way to the action. That is important for death matches etc. But to leave out a giant part of the char progression is questionable to say the least.

Publius_Scipio

They are considering/leaning towards no CP in BG's.No final decision yet.

nimander99

Its how all pvp should be, no CP's no levels, separate skill system based on choice of weapon and armor, make it more like Overwatch only Tamriel style. Then balance wouldn't be an issue.

Jitterbug

Personally I could do without the max regen/stat/damage/mitigation.
What I want from CP is the passives like harvest time and other fun little bonuses.

Whether or not they are in BGs is fine with me although I would prefer to have both options. Not at the cost of long queues though.

Sneaky-Snurr

hmsdragonfly wrote: »

Most NB gankers i know have dropped viper for spriggan.

No CP points invested in damage mitigation affects everything, not just procsets.

" It only takes one proc to burst down most of a target's health in Azura's Star." -> I don't think that's true, at all. If procset can crit, yes that might be true, when it crit, but it doesn't, so 3k damage every 6 seconds is pointless in a 1v1 fight. Especially in a 1vX fight, procset is completely useless, since you lose the potential to burst people down when procset crits.

Procsets are still strong for certain buillds: example, red mountain on a stamsorc flurry build, viper on a stamplar POTL build etc, other than that, there are clearly better options now: spriggan, hulking, automaton etc to name a few.

I do agree that procsets encourage non-skillful plays. That's why I use spriggan instead

@hmsdragonfly
I'm quite surprised you have that outlook if you PvP mainly and religiously.
3k dmg? That's not what proc sets are hitting in Azura's Star (Viper's or Velidreth anyone?).

Also, if 3k is what you're really seeing (but with all due respect, I highly doubt it), then keep in mind the other burst and/or DoT abilities (that can crit) that hit their target that come(s) together with the proc-ed damage. And double the figure you've given if proc sets stack and fire off in a short period of time ie. Velidreth & Viper
That can easily mount up to 12-15k and most non CP players roll around 15-23k health.

I do see eye to eye with you on the proc sets you mentioned and you have confirmed that it is indeed strong on certain builds which I am in complete agreement with. You might reinforce your argument saying that it is only strong on certain builds and not everyone runs the same proc builds that works best with a certain class. Yes, that's true but to a certain extent.
Thing is, many PvP-ers, excluding casuals and PvE-ers who PvP for the Alliance Skill unlocks, are running those exact builds you've mentioned. Take a look at all the StamSorcs running hurricane + proc sets and DKs with their Tremorscale procs and countless more for each class.
They only differentiate from one another by one or two different skills slotted in their combat bar if they're of the same class.

That said, since you've shifted to using Spriggan set then I suppose you wouldn't mind ZoS disabling proc sets altogether with CP for BG?

Alaztor91

If ZoS really wants battlegrounds to be ''competitive pvp'', they should imo disable CP, levels, racial passives, and give you standarized weapons,armor and jewelry, standarized potions,poisons, enchants, food, drinks that only work on battlegrounds and that replace your current stuff while you are in there.

They could add another tab to the equipment window where you could set up all that stuff before queuing, and add different types of ''standarized stuff'', like different sets for damage,tanking,healing,etc different types of potions and poisons, but everyone would have access to the same stuff.

Basically remove almost every source that could cause imbalance in fights, some things that they have no control over would still be present like ping,fps,skills and passives unlocked,etc. but there is nothing they can do about that.

Yasha

Not sure if the OP is actually true, but I really hope that at the very least there is no CP in battlegrounds, and no CP enabled battlegrounds whatsoever.

Personally I would prefer a system like @Alaztor91 describes above, that focuses on levelling the playing field; but I'm not going to hold my breath for miracles.

Izaki

CP or no CP won't make a difference on how long the fights last. They always last for 15 minutes.

I don't see why they want to change the CP system, but then remove it from an aspect of the game. It just seems stupid.

Baconlad

Think its funny how players complain that CP causes a crutch and is "no skill". One dude said that he wanted NO CP so that enemies would be easier to kill for him hahahah.

Anyway has anyone ever used puncturing sweeps in no cp? I imagine not. It hits for 1/4 what it does in TF. It turns into a decent skill to absolute garbage. *** any templar ability other than dark flare. So in battlegrounds, all these no CP guys want dark flare spamming magplars using javy and meteor. Lol...build diversity will tank.

For *** sake zos just completely remove CP and go back and rebalance every skill with no CP in mind. Many skills and abilities huge buffs for no CP to work. If this *** goes through im OUT. I mean theyre already removing magic cost and regen CP (which i think is GREAT) but dont *** with my max resources, damage and mitigations.

I may stay if we get to keep the extra resources they give for CP....XD

But this is kinda some dissapointing sh!t here

Firerock2

Baconlad wrote: »

Think its funny how players complain that CP causes a crutch and is "no skill". One dude said that he wanted NO CP so that enemies would be easier to kill for him hahahah.

Anyway has anyone ever used puncturing sweeps in no cp? I imagine not. It hits for 1/4 what it does in TF. It turns into a decent skill to absolute garbage. *** any templar ability other than dark flare. So in battlegrounds, all these no CP guys want dark flare spamming magplars using javy and meteor. Lol...build diversity will tank.

For *** sake zos just completely remove CP and go back and rebalance every skill with no CP in mind. Many skills and abilities huge buffs for no CP to work. If this *** goes through im OUT. I mean theyre already removing magic cost and regen CP (which i think is GREAT) but dont *** with my max resources, damage and mitigations.

I may stay if we get to keep the extra resources they give for CP....XD

But this is kinda some dissapointing sh!t here

I've played magicka templar since launch. When the no cp campaign got released I played it day 1 and haven't looked back. You have no idea how to build your character for no cp or play the class if you think it forces Templars to spam dark flare. That being said, sweeps could hit a little harder and there is balancing needed for no cp to be perfect, but its far from garbage

Baconlad

At the time i tested puncturing sweeps i was in the same gear i had been in TF for months. Checked it during no cp week. Did yah read the rest of my post? I dont give two fuks whether they keep CP or not. I only want them to ensure that sweeps isnt useless. Which....it was lol. 4k damage including crits and burning light. You fkn kidding me? Thats absolutely garbage. In CP canpaign thats about as hard as my blazing spears initial hit crits averages for. You see anyone trying to single target players with blazing spear in TF? NOPE...gee i wonder why, cause there are better options. DF in no CP was hitting for 5-6k crits average. Using sweeps is utter trash in no CP, completely changes the Mtemplar gameplay.

If they just removed regen, which seems to be the biggest issue here, everything would be ok, atleast im leaning towards that being better than complete removal. This feels like battle spirit when it launched, which were still dealing with now, blanket damage nerf, blanket damage reduction, not taking into account different skills and abilities that scale better or worse than others. I dont have a single buddy who plays stamina complain about NO CP because mag classes and skills get much weaker than them overall. Let me ask you, does dodge roll become weaker the less stamina you have? The less CP you have? NOPE. Do shield stackers get weaker? What about players who rely on outright mitigation and healing up after word? YES, WE GET WEAKER.

Now this patchvis a long way off, we really dont know what these devs are looking to do to compensate, i initially fumed after finding out this information, but ill tell you man if they dont buff individual skills before they blanket nerf for BGs than you can kiss any magic class in BGs goodbye. Just when people start wishing and hoping they could be in viably defensive LA again after what two years of stamina dominance in small scale, being forced to wear heavy armor, the devs punch us again with this "potential" information.

"Magplar thinks he can small scale in his resources armor type? Hah, roll stamina B!TCH!"

Baconlad

Yeah cant wait to lose all my damage and regen CPs. I cant wait to either reglyph regen or regear for regen, losing even more of my oh so hard to get damage so i can cast more than three BOL. Common guys, we can only hope this next patch has much more than minor fkng with eclipse and BG CP removal...

Chilly-McFreeze

Are some of you guys sure you don't just want an elder scrolls shooter instead of an RPG?

Surgee

Good. It's still gonna be far from balanced. I'm calling it now - team of 4 well-coordinated nightblades will rule the battlegrounds. Anyone will die instantly when attacked by them in the same time. Capture the relic? The maps are so small that a stam char will be able to roll dodge all the way back to his base without a sweat. I also wonder how they plan to handle sorcs using blink with the relic.

hmsdragonfly

Sneaky-Snurr wrote: »

hmsdragonfly wrote: »

Most NB gankers i know have dropped viper for spriggan.

No CP points invested in damage mitigation affects everything, not just procsets.

" It only takes one proc to burst down most of a target's health in Azura's Star." -> I don't think that's true, at all. If procset can crit, yes that might be true, when it crit, but it doesn't, so 3k damage every 6 seconds is pointless in a 1v1 fight. Especially in a 1vX fight, procset is completely useless, since you lose the potential to burst people down when procset crits.

Procsets are still strong for certain buillds: example, red mountain on a stamsorc flurry build, viper on a stamplar POTL build etc, other than that, there are clearly better options now: spriggan, hulking, automaton etc to name a few.

I do agree that procsets encourage non-skillful plays. That's why I use spriggan instead

I'm quite surprised you have that outlook if you PvP mainly and religiously.
3k dmg? That's not what proc sets are hitting in Azura's Star (Viper's or Velidreth anyone?).

Also, if 3k is what you're really seeing (but with all due respect, I highly doubt it), then keep in mind the other burst and/or DoT abilities (that can crit) that hit their target that come(s) together with the proc-ed damage. And double the figure you've given if proc sets stack and fire off in a short period of time ie. Velidreth & Viper
That can easily mount up to 12-15k and most non CP players roll around 15-23k health.

I do see eye to eye with you on the proc sets you mentioned and you have confirmed that it is indeed strong on certain builds which I am in complete agreement with. You might reinforce your argument saying that it is only strong on certain builds and not everyone runs the same proc builds that works best with a certain class. Yes, that's true but to a certain extent.
Thing is, many PvP-ers, excluding casuals and PvE-ers who PvP for the Alliance Skill unlocks, are running those exact builds you've mentioned. Take a look at all the StamSorcs running hurricane + proc sets and DKs with their Tremorscale procs and countless more for each class.
They only differentiate from one another by one or two different skills slotted in their combat bar if they're of the same class.

That said, since you've shifted to using Spriggan set then I suppose you wouldn't mind ZoS disabling proc sets altogether with CP for BG?

Viper only hits for 3k-4k, that's true. 15k health in Azura? That guy didn't eat food? Of course other skills deal damage, but there are sets that increase the damage output of other skills and those are better than proc sets in many situations.

Yes veli + viper is strong, but veli + spriggan is even stronger. Since Homestead, many have dropped viper for automaton/hulking/spriggan, since people realized that overall damage output is better now, because you lose the potential to burst people down when procset still crits. Procsets are still great in Xv1 situations, but in 1v1, and especially 1vX, there are many good alternatives right now. 3k damage every 6s is not much compared to things like 1500 pen or 400 raw weapon damage. Most decent players can outheal the damage done by the proc with 1 click.

Yeah I don't mind ZoS disabling proc sets or even removing them from the game. I don't like proc sets, they only encourage non-skillful plays. If you want to utilize things like spriggan or automaton, you really need to improve your play. I just don't think it is that much of a problem like before, most players I know have changed to something else. I still tbag procset users especially those who run in a zerg.... ummm i mean 20-man "small scale".