Someone has to say it....Roots are OP

RinaldoGandolphi

There it is. The game has been out for over two years. Why is there not an immunity to roots?

Does anyone remember the game before they put CC immunity in and you could be chain CC multiple times? That was broken and OP.

Not being able to move your character and people spamming Talons/Encase/Frost Reach, etc is broken. How is there not a cool down on roots? If someone is rooted and they roll out they should get a 6 sec window where they are immune to being rooted again.

Spamming Purge just to get out of being rooted repeatedly is not a solution. Shuffle doesn't work half the time hence why people spam it.

Rooting should be a skill used intelligently when you surmise your target is out of stam so you could root him and do your thing, but this mindless spamming of roots really needs to go from the game.

they fixed Bombard after over a year of folks (me) begging them to change it. (It only roots people now if they are not snared) in essence giving it a cooldown, and now Bombard is balanced its still useful, just not broken OP

Roots need an immunity similar to hard CC, you should not be able to root someone over and over and over again with no cooldown, thats every bit as broken as chaining Hard CC before they put CC immunity in the game.

Rickter

this right here is the exact reason why having a tank in your party is so effective. I remember back during 1.4-1.5 days a lot of people were preaching that tanks were useless in pvp, but post 1.6, having someone built to take a lot of damage and just make them a cc machine became crucial in small and medium groups.

before i switched to stam, i was a magicka dk built for PVE tanking so i was going into cyrodiil with a lot of sustain and my phys resist was 32k. as this type of build, id shield charge in with a healer (whom i was running stalwart guard on) and start spamming talons. when my healer was being harassed, id start spamming fossilize, and inhale along with talons. keeping myself buffed, and popping wings left and right were part of this rotation too. then comes the nova, bat swarm, negate and the rest of the DD oriented team - like, ya'll were done.

it was a wrap.

I dont play that way anymore, it was pretty boring and unfulfilling, personally, but you add root immunity and that whole meta goes away. That is a zerg busting tactic. People complain so much about zergs, yet zergs would melt to that tactic. idc if its taken away one way or the other, but then dont complain about zergs. cant have your cake and eat it too.

GrumpyDuckling

If I'm not mistaken, the following can counter roots:

- Immovable potion
- Immovable (Heavy armor skill)
- Mist Form
- Dodge Roll
- Gap closers? (to my knowledge, gap closers are not disabled and still work while rooted, allowing movement)

With my play style I enjoy when an opponent continuously tries to root me because it means they're not hitting me with their strongest attacks. However I could see how it would be really annoying in a 1 versus many situation, because all it takes is one person rooting and you are more vulnerable to others in that group - although, that's also when dodge roll and Mist Form come in handy.

ku5h

People complained about exactly that for a long time, but ZoS completely ignored it. People got tired of beating a dead horse and gave up complaining. Once again ZoS strategy of, if we ignore it, it might go away paid off. Ppl stoped complaining and ZoS got away without having to do anything.

Lord-Otto

Roots are the root of all rots.
Sorry.
I agree, when they made it so you can't turn while being rooted, they encouraged zerg play. I would be fine if they reversed that. If not, a short root immunity would also work. Three seconds, maybe?
But yeah, that would counter teh ZERGZ, and as ZOS stated so wisely, if you're facing two people, you're gonna have a hard time. Zerging is working as intended.
May I interest you in some crates or furnishings to ease the pain?

RinaldoGandolphi

Since there has been no lag on Azura for me, Zergs don't bother me. Im glad to see them get to play the way they want without lagging the game and not effecting me at all.

Being able to root spam people favors larger numbers though. Root spam will most certainly be OP in Battlegrounds.

Immovable potions and the Immovable skill do not prevent you from being rooted. Mist Form only works against roots and snares sometimes, and forces you to be a vampire with the weakness it has(the fire weakness on NO CP for example is very harsh) i'd rather not be a vampire if i could help it.

Id be happy with a 3 second immunity too, stopping someones movement completely is very powerful in itself, every bit as powerful as stunning, knocking down, fearing, etc...it should have some sort of immunity, maybe not as much as hard CC, but it needs something...3 seconds would be accetable.

thankyourat

If they put a cool down on roots my play time would go up drastically. As it is roots are just too broken. It makes the game unplayable at times. Spamming CCs and roots are also my biggest pet peeve. I hate when I'm fighting and players only use the Templar spear or flame reach some people don't realize the have 10 abilities and 2 ultimates. I once had a couple tank sorcs just Incase me until I ran out of stamina and then one put a negate on me. lol this game man.

Cinbri

It became even worse when they changed option when your char could rotate inside roots, based on your camera's focus and walking direction.
Thats what i talking about:

Joy_Division

GrumpyDuckling wrote: »

If I'm not mistaken, the following can counter roots:

- Immovable potion - Nope
- Immovable (Heavy armor skill) - Nope
- Mist Form - Sometimes (buggy)
- Dodge Roll
- Gap closers? - Nope

Lore_lai

GrumpyDuckling wrote: »

If I'm not mistaken, the following can counter roots:

- Immovable potion
- Immovable (Heavy armor skill)
- Mist Form
- Dodge Roll
- Gap closers? (to my knowledge, gap closers are not disabled and still work while rooted, allowing movement)

With my play style I enjoy when an opponent continuously tries to root me because it means they're not hitting me with their strongest attacks. However I could see how it would be really annoying in a 1 versus many situation, because all it takes is one person rooting and you are more vulnerable to others in that group - although, that's also when dodge roll and Mist Form come in handy.

Immovable only applies to hard CCs, not roots and snares.
Going vampire should not be the be all - end all answer to what is simply unfun gameplay mechanic.
Dodge roll can only take you so far. It has an increase cost each time while roots can be perma applied to you with no penalty on the root-spammer's part. Not to mention that if you're magicka then GG.
Only gap closer that works while rooted is Teleport Strike and morphs and I think you still stay rooted at the end of the cast.

umagon

I switched to using reactive to deal with the root and other crowd control spammers. I do like when the spammers complain about me using reactive when the counter to reactive is simply not spamming crowd control.

Beardimus

I ditched encase as it never seems to work in PvP people just get out of it! If that's changed with modifications to it I might give it another try!

Lore_lai

Beardimus wrote: »

I ditched encase as it never seems to work in PvP people just get out of it! If that's changed with modifications to it I might give it another try!

So - what you're saying is - you want Encase to be buffed?

Lord-Otto

RinaldoGandolphi wrote: »

Since there has been no lag on Azura for me, Zergs don't bother me. Im glad to see them get to play the way they want without lagging the game and not effecting me at all.

Being able to root spam people favors larger numbers though. Root spam will most certainly be OP in Battlegrounds.

Immovable potions and the Immovable skill do not prevent you from being rooted. Mist Form only works against roots and snares sometimes, and forces you to be a vampire with the weakness it has(the fire weakness on NO CP for example is very harsh) i'd rather not be a vampire if i could help it.

Id be happy with a 3 second immunity too, stopping someones movement completely is very powerful in itself, every bit as powerful as stunning, knocking down, fearing, etc...it should have some sort of immunity, maybe not as much as hard CC, but it needs something...3 seconds would be accetable.

I swear, if you drop vamp, I'll come for you one night and turn you again!
(ò.ó)
#betterbatthandead

React

Yeah there needs to be a root immunity cooldown after being rooted. I think the worst part is that you can't rotate your character without target abilities while rooted. Effectively makes some builds sitting sucks who literally can do nothing while rooted.

LeifErickson

I like when I'm on my magplar in a 1vx situation and one to two people dedicate their lives to root spamming me so I literally just stand their jabbing the air until I run out of resources cleansing myself. It's great fun.

Glory

Lore_lai wrote: »

GrumpyDuckling wrote: »

If I'm not mistaken, the following can counter roots:

- Immovable potion
- Immovable (Heavy armor skill)
- Mist Form
- Dodge Roll
- Gap closers? (to my knowledge, gap closers are not disabled and still work while rooted, allowing movement)

With my play style I enjoy when an opponent continuously tries to root me because it means they're not hitting me with their strongest attacks. However I could see how it would be really annoying in a 1 versus many situation, because all it takes is one person rooting and you are more vulnerable to others in that group - although, that's also when dodge roll and Mist Form come in handy.

Immovable only applies to hard CCs, not roots and snares.
Going vampire should not be the be all - end all answer to what is simply unfun gameplay mechanic.
Dodge roll can only take you so far. It has an increase cost each time while roots can be perma applied to you with no penalty on the root-spammer's part. Not to mention that if you're magicka then GG.
Only gap closer that works while rooted is Teleport Strike and morphs and I think you still stay rooted at the end of the cast.

You forgot Dragon Leap, that OP gap closer that provides CC immunity...sometimes!

Main'ing a DK, I try not to be biased and understand that roots and snares are disgustingly strong in this meta (which is why I am forced to be a vampire as well ironically). I think there should be a soft CC immunity on roots and snares, but I'm not sure how I'd like it implemented.

Maybe the 3 second immunity suggested, but also make it so the immunity is only applied if the rooted person endures the entire root? Otherwise, it will literally be useless to run roots of any kind as anyone with a purge or a roll dodge will be immune immediately which seems pretty unfair.

NightbladeMechanics

Let's talk about ideas.

What if snares were standardized into major and minor debuffs? Aoe snares could apply a mild, non-stacking Minor Snare debuff, and single target snares a stronger (but not Tremorscale strong!), non-stacking Major Snare debuff.

What if abilities which grant Major Expedition also purged snares and roots upon activation? Double Take and Boundless Storm would be made more competitive for non-overload bar slots. They wouldn't need to grant periods of immunity in order to be valuable, but a couple seconds of immunity could be cool too. Keeping immunity up would need to remain cost prohibitive in an infinite sustain game. Templars do already have a fantastic purge, and DKs are supposed to be relatively immobile by design. Do they need additional purges in addition to ritual and mist form with its tradeoffs?

What if Templar ritual aoes lost their snares entirely?

What if Encase costed 13,000 magicka...because reasons...?

Gilvoth

GrumpyDuckling wrote: »

If I'm not mistaken, the following can counter roots:

- Immovable potion
- Immovable (Heavy armor skill)
- Mist Form
- Dodge Roll
- Gap closers? (to my knowledge, gap closers are not disabled and still work while rooted, allowing movement)

thos things do not work. people just keep spamming roots over and over and over, it bypasses and ignores those things you are mentioning.

Moglijuana

I use talons all day since I run no gap closer and am a Light Armor Melee Dps. I would say sorry, but...Light Armor Melee Dps kind of explains why idc.

Good players get away roughly 80% of the time.

Bad players die 100% of the time.

Shuffle.
Rapid Maneuvers.
Mist Form.
Cleanse.
Purge.
Forward Momentum.
Shadow Image.
Draining/Magnum Shot.
Ambush.
Empowering Chains.
Streak.

vs.

Talons.
Encase.
Bombard.

Lots of ways for every class to 3 escape roots.

Gilvoth

your whole build and atack is just roots and lava whip.
it is broken and people die because all the things you just mentioned as escapes, dont work.
you just keep spaming your roots and lava whip over and over.

Takllin

There should be a cooldown on root spamming, more than the bombard cooldown. However, it's already near impossible to kill any stam character that just wants to get away or feels like rolling around the second floor of a tower for 10 minutes. If I'm not allowed to fight any stam character except when they want to fight me we might as well give sorcs infinite streak back.

Moglijuana

dwemer_paleologist wrote: »

your whole build and atack is just roots and lava whip.
it is broken and people die because all the things you just mentioned as escapes, dont work.
you just keep spaming your roots and lava whip over and over.

Please explain to me how a melee magicka dk is supposed to fight without using snares and whips? You know. The class abilities that make it a class. LOL

Gilvoth

by having the devs remove your ability to spam that skill over and over and over.
like others have said "create cool downs"

with this new [no cp] campaigns it is helping people stop spaming skills like this one. it should be global.

Minno

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

Let's talk about ideas.

What if snares were standardized into major and minor debuffs? Aoe snares could apply a mild, non-stacking Minor Snare debuff, and single target snares a stronger (but not Tremorscale strong!), non-stacking Major Snare debuff.

What if abilities which grant Major Expedition also purged snares and roots upon activation? Double Take and Boundless Storm would be made more competitive for non-overload bar slots. They wouldn't need to grant periods of immunity in order to be valuable, but a couple seconds of immunity could be cool too. Keeping immunity up would need to remain cost prohibitive in an infinite sustain game. Templars do already have a fantastic purge, and DKs are supposed to be relatively immobile by design. Do they need additional purges in addition to ritual and mist form with its tradeoffs?

What if Templar ritual aoes lost their snares entirely?

What if Encase costed 13,000 magicka...because reasons...?

You can at least see a giant big red circle for Templar CC
And that spell is pricey, and we are using it to purge not snare (so by spamming we break resources where other classes can go offensively.)

Though I use it to help proc valkyn skoria when I'm being forced to play defensively against melee enemies. But if they leave the circle, I have to get closer and recast. It's no where near as effective as encase or talons; you can still move in the Templar circle whereas the others make you stuck in place and are spamable.

I don't think there's anything wrong with encase or talons, but there should be a reason to use those spells (IE lock down opener to nail a groups burst or lock a 1v1 fight when you notice the lack of stam). In group play, you can dedicate a healer to run the raids purges but for players in smaller groups there's nothing to do but run vampire/slot your pocket Templar due to the increased use of the spell by those larger groups.

And we should be thinking of having finite resources not infinite for balance discussion; you should run out of resources of you spam any spell.

NightbladeMechanics

I'd prefer an active counter to roots, i.e. an ability cast which costs something, over a cooldown during which you're immune. Give magicka a couple more sources of snare and root removal/immunity, and I believe the snare/root situation in this game would be fine.

RinaldoGandolphi

Moglijuana wrote: »

I talon spam all day since I run no gap closer and am a Light Armor Melee Dps. I would say sorry, but...Light Armor Melee Dps kind of explains why idc.

Good players get away roughly 80% of the time.

Bad players die 100% of the time.

Shuffle.
Rapid Maneuvers.
Mist Form.
Cleanse.
Purge.
Forward Momentum.
Shadow Image.
Draining/Magnum Shot.
Ambush.
Empowering Chains.

vs.

Talons.
Encase.
Bombard.

Lots of ways for every class to 3 escape roots.

Everything your listing are Stam skills. Stam builds have no issues with root spam it's magic c builds that do

The only magic ability that gives root immunity is Mist Form and it forces you to be a vampire which gives crap health recovery, a fire weakness, and halts your Mag recovery while using it.

Ever since they increased the cost of Efficient Purge you can cast Talons or Encase 2-3 times for the cost on one Alliance War Purge cast and it still don't give you immunity.

Roots broken. Arguing otherwise is being disingenuous. Those who can't move can't fight. Root is every bit as strong as hard CC is and it needs some universal method of a cooldown or every class needs a class skill that will Purge them and grant some sort of immunity for a short time.

Moglijuana

dwemer_paleologist wrote: »

by having the devs remove your ability to spam that skill over and over and over.
like others have said "create cool downs"

with this new [no cp] campaigns it is helping people stop spaming skills like this one. it should be global.

The entire combat system in ESO is meant for spamming. Someone spams talons? You spam shuffle etc. Most roots in the game are the most expensive skills in the game as well .

Also. In no CP (and CP), I don't spam anything. I root when needed. Like I said earlier. Good players will escape 80% of the time regardless of how many times I can cast talons. The counters already exist in the game and they are spammable as well.

Takllin

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

I'd prefer an active counter to roots, i.e. an ability cast which costs something, over a cooldown during which you're immune. Give magicka a couple more sources of snare and root removal/immunity, and I believe the snare/root situation in this game would be fine.

The closest thing Magicka has to this is templar cleanse which removes 5 debuffs. Even with that skill you can't remove the snare on you sometimes because you have at least 10 debuffs from a minimum of 2-3 people. When it does remove the snare you maybe move 5 feet before getting snared again. Not to mention if you do get out of snare range you're instantly crit rushed by 5 players and your character is stuck again then rooted.

Snare immunity for magicka would be interesting though. Rapids used to kind of do that, but now you have to let yourself be killed if you want to take advantage of that skill since you can't heal.

RinaldoGandolphi

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

I'd prefer an active counter to roots, i.e. an ability cast which costs something, over a cooldown during which you're immune. Give magicka a couple more sources of snare and root removal/immunity, and I believe the snare/root situation in this game would be fine.

Yup, I like this ide

Give

Thunder form
Templar focus
Spiked armor
Blur

All of them Purge any roots or snares on you and give snare and root immunity for 3 secs

Do that and we have valid counterplay I'd be happy as a kid in a candy store

Recremen

There are counters to roots. You can even cast them in a negate. Heck you can cast them preemptively. Roots are fine as is, except for the fact that only magicka users can effectively root anything anymore. Bring back bombard spam!!