Day one of double AP

Minno

RinaldoGandolphi wrote: »

Princess_Asgari wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

FENGRUSH wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

How do they get the data they want when:

- people unarguably die faster in keep fights
- people run out of resources and can´t spam skills like they could with cp
- people already greatly changed their playstyle on TF EU by not engaging in open field fights willingly and instead placing far mor emphasis on siege and taking/defending keeps

You can tell players changed their behavior within 30 minutes of playtime on trueflame if you played there regularly. So how is zos gonna get the data they wanted if people behave differently?

Depends what the goal is... If it is only to test if CP is impacting performance or if removing CP improves performance (by also impacting how people can and do fight(duration of fights and type)).

Sure - but playing without CP is not an option for some people.

I think all of our guild simply stopped playing after 3 hours because it´s not enjoyable in a 2 to 4 man grp.
Which if would make people simply leave the game if this was going to become a permanent solution. I can´t enjoy no cp no matter how much i try.

Some are going to understand this and others are just going to tell you to L2P. I for one am against the removal of CP and I am for a better placement of the CP passives and point placement.

Instead of when you have 3600 cp and all of the cp are at 100 the trees should have more cp placement options so not everything is at 100. In return this will make it so when we are at lower CP caps like 600 for example people wont have 100 into something and getting multiple bonuses ... they will need to spread it out or focus on 1 thing and have less in another.

It is just too easy right now to focus on a few strong CP areas and ignore the others. If this werent the case youd have less of the crazy healers, never ending blockers and crazy rollers who can do good dmg too.

Id also suggest removing the CP bonuses so there isnt the calculation of who is getting hit by 10% more dmg or who is off balance or heal from x player for blocking something .. removing those passives for allocated cp placement would help tremendously on server calculations as some of them can become endless in the large fights.

Im not disagreeing with you @Princess_Asgari we both agree that the Champion system in its current incarnation is simply broken and allows the crazy healers, never ending blockers and crazy rollers who can do good dmg too.

The problem with CP right now is everyone can literally be a house, and when everyone is a house, specialization is lost. Tanks, healers, and DPS need profound weaknesses and right now with CP how it works that simply isn't the case.

I agree with you, i'd rather them re-work CP so folks can't invest in everything rather then outright removal. As long as a no-cp campaign exists, im not one for forcing my ideas on others. Im a big supporter of choice.

However, making it so folks can't invest in everything would def be a good start.

PS: Resource draining poisons are crazy OP on non-cp campaigns and non-cp pvp, they really ought to look at disabling them there, as they are way overkill......

The way I see it, here's the rundown of options:
1) provide nCP across all of cyro. This makes CP PvE only. It's possible to balance the skills/items for pvp(IE adjust proc times/dmg on certain sets,etc.) and letting CP balance the rest for PvE. Everyone on same level, gear more important, must play/farm game to earn BIS gear.

2) restructuring CP to provide fair trade offs. A very viable solution for pvp. Still let's nCP folks have a mode to play. Requires another layer of balance discussions, still potential for power creep (since we have no idea what zos will have in mind what the restructure will entail.). Still rewards players that can reach max-cp, lower/new players must remain in AZ. Will still create 1 dominate campaign that will contain full pop caps.

3) keep CP as is (to not change feeling of CP progression in either pve or pvp). Still have to balance skills/sets and any future sets that come out and no one feels the current system is good, except for PvE.


Neither of these solve the fact in pvp there still is no measurement for competitive play. In PvE they still have access to a leaderboard that measures success/deaths in a converted numerical value that changes weekly. PvP only has a measurement on how much AP you get, which is also used to gain EMP. It rewards time spent playing instead of time spent trying to improve.

Now given my last statement, is the future of pvp better with CP and a viable leaderboard ranking? Or nCP and a viable leaderboard ranking? How do we discuss battlegrounds with CP/nCP? How will the leaderboards work for BG's? Will BG's be the defacto "end game" content for pvp?

And in reference to my options above; the best option to appeal to both nCP and CP players is option 2, but it will effect PvE who will dictate if that option is actually used.
Option 1 will not harm PvE, their will be easier to introduce. But we still don't have a viable end game pvp content to discuss this further, so we have to ask ourselves what do we see for the future of pvp. Because it's currently not open Cyro.

Decado

Lieblingsjunge wrote: »

Only stupid thing about this event: 430k AP/Hour by flipping an empty outpost. EP/DC earlier kept flipping Nikel, gaining a total of 430k AP/Hour simply by not attacking each other& flipping the outpost.

Destro trains should be the least of your worries. They're nothing new - but random pugs getting 12k AP(16,1k with home keep & buff) for flipping an empty outpost. STRONK

you misunderstand lieb, im aware there will always be giant zergs and ball groups, there have been from day one, i meant more about the sheer number of them around looking for double AP will mean that zos WILL be able to check out performance against giant battles, themdogesbite just said trueflame was still laggy however here on azura there are huge fights and im not getting any lag atall. ill be curious if that goes on throughout the week. but i believe the double AP is having the effect ZOS hoped for, so many people all over the place, i havnt seen so many DC in a long long time.

[Edit to remove reference to removed content]

Torbschka

Plesse mention which Plattform u plan on. For me in ps4 pro it seems like lag improved, but FPs still drop to 15-25 in large fights.

Rickter

Im getting excited!!

Dreyloch

Isn't the real question here...With all these zerg destro trains and ppl around, how is the lag OP? Same as usual? Don't know, cause ppl die so fast? This is what ZoS is trying to figure out. It might be painful this week I have no doubt. I expect to die way more than usual. But I still can't wait to get out there with my crew and see how it goes

edit: seems some are saying the lag is still present from a few posts up. Can't read'm all since i'm at work..

Rickter

Dreyloch wrote: »

Isn't the real question here...With all these zerg destro trains and ppl around, how is the lag OP? Same as usual? Don't know, cause ppl die so fast? This is what ZoS is trying to figure out. It might be painful this week I have no doubt. I expect to die way more than usual. But I still can't wait to get out there with my crew and see how it goes

^^This

Decado

Dreyloch wrote: »

Isn't the real question here...With all these zerg destro trains and ppl around, how is the lag OP? Same as usual? Don't know, cause ppl die so fast? This is what ZoS is trying to figure out. It might be painful this week I have no doubt. I expect to die way more than usual. But I still can't wait to get out there with my crew and see how it goes

im having 0 issues with lag so far and there have been some REALLY big fights, however someone mentioned earlier TF was still lagging

im on PC EU btw

Moglijuana

Three things I noticed before Ps4 server got taken down.

1. Lag was "ok" no button delay or anything. Frame Rate was still awful when near large groups and terrain took forever to load in some areas.
2. Players who usually gave me trouble when trying to kill them 1v1 went down like flies =0 (sad since I thought they were "good")
3. MagickaDK is OP AF with no CP.

Torbschka

For me it seems like lag did really improve, but in console fps are still ***. Seems like PC could be awesome

Biro123

Haven't been able to get into TF.. queues are huuge! either they lowered the caps (doubtful) or every single AP-*** is trying to make the most of the double-ap..

But of a pain for those who would usually be pvping at this time....

Talcyndl

Derra wrote: »

How do they get the data they want when:

- people unarguably die faster in keep fights
- people run out of resources and can´t spam skills like they could with cp
- people already greatly changed their playstyle on TF EU by not engaging in open field fights willingly and instead placing far mor emphasis on siege and taking/defending keeps

You can tell players changed their behavior within 30 minutes of playtime on trueflame if you played there regularly. So how is zos gonna get the data they wanted if people behave differently?

By realizing that the changed playstyles create less lag?

FENGRUSH

Derra wrote: »

FENGRUSH wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

How do they get the data they want when:

- people unarguably die faster in keep fights
- people run out of resources and can´t spam skills like they could with cp
- people already greatly changed their playstyle on TF EU by not engaging in open field fights willingly and instead placing far mor emphasis on siege and taking/defending keeps

You can tell players changed their behavior within 30 minutes of playtime on trueflame if you played there regularly. So how is zos gonna get the data they wanted if people behave differently?

Depends what the goal is... If it is only to test if CP is impacting performance or if removing CP improves performance (by also impacting how people can and do fight(duration of fights and type)).

Sure - but playing without CP is not an option for some people.

I think all of our guild simply stopped playing after 3 hours because it´s not enjoyable in a 2 to 4 man grp.
Which if would make people simply leave the game if this was going to become a permanent solution. I can´t enjoy no cp no matter how much i try.

You can handle 2-4 man groups on no CP, but you do need to change your builds and more compliment your party. Solo is a pretty bad experience overall on no CP (especially streaming and being mass piled on with BS mechanics). Frankly, its a lot of stupid gameplay mechanics that ruin these things. EI: gap closers murdering people in mist form and anyone sprinting in medium (medium is garbage outside of ganking on no CP).

I understand some people dont like it, I cant even get Princess to play with us on no CP even though we will make him a manly princess in party.

Yolokin_Swagonborn

FENGRUSH wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

FENGRUSH wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

How do they get the data they want when:

- people unarguably die faster in keep fights
- people run out of resources and can´t spam skills like they could with cp
- people already greatly changed their playstyle on TF EU by not engaging in open field fights willingly and instead placing far mor emphasis on siege and taking/defending keeps

You can tell players changed their behavior within 30 minutes of playtime on trueflame if you played there regularly. So how is zos gonna get the data they wanted if people behave differently?

Depends what the goal is... If it is only to test if CP is impacting performance or if removing CP improves performance (by also impacting how people can and do fight(duration of fights and type)).

Sure - but playing without CP is not an option for some people.

I think all of our guild simply stopped playing after 3 hours because it´s not enjoyable in a 2 to 4 man grp.
Which if would make people simply leave the game if this was going to become a permanent solution. I can´t enjoy no cp no matter how much i try.

You can handle 2-4 man groups on no CP, but you do need to change your builds and more compliment your party. Solo is a pretty bad experience overall on no CP (especially streaming and being mass piled on with BS mechanics). Frankly, its a lot of stupid gameplay mechanics that ruin these things. EI: gap closers murdering people in mist form and anyone sprinting in medium (medium is garbage outside of ganking on no CP).

I understand some people dont like it, I cant even get Princess to play with us on no CP even though we will make him a manly princess in party.

I think what people don't realize is that CP is only part of the problem. Too many other design changes have happened concurrently with the addition of CP. Removing CP without adjusting the rest of the game that was designed around CP will lead to an unsatisfactory gameplay experience.

If they remove CP, they also need to:

• Give back about 4k magicka and stamina that was removed from our characters and locked behind the CP system
• Revert the 1.5x nerf to health attribute
• Remove the terrible gap closer permaroot that has been the biggest nerf to solo play ever added to the game.
• Cap the effect stacking resources has on damage, heals and shields (i.e stacking attributes past lets say 25k magicka will no longer buff your shields) and then adjust the battle spirit 50% nerfs

These things should have been done when Azura's Star came online and it would have been a much better experience.

Derra

FENGRUSH wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

FENGRUSH wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

How do they get the data they want when:

- people unarguably die faster in keep fights
- people run out of resources and can´t spam skills like they could with cp
- people already greatly changed their playstyle on TF EU by not engaging in open field fights willingly and instead placing far mor emphasis on siege and taking/defending keeps

You can tell players changed their behavior within 30 minutes of playtime on trueflame if you played there regularly. So how is zos gonna get the data they wanted if people behave differently?

Depends what the goal is... If it is only to test if CP is impacting performance or if removing CP improves performance (by also impacting how people can and do fight(duration of fights and type)).

Sure - but playing without CP is not an option for some people.

I think all of our guild simply stopped playing after 3 hours because it´s not enjoyable in a 2 to 4 man grp.
Which if would make people simply leave the game if this was going to become a permanent solution. I can´t enjoy no cp no matter how much i try.

You can handle 2-4 man groups on no CP, but you do need to change your builds and more compliment your party. Solo is a pretty bad experience overall on no CP (especially streaming and being mass piled on with BS mechanics). Frankly, its a lot of stupid gameplay mechanics that ruin these things. EI: gap closers murdering people in mist form and anyone sprinting in medium (medium is garbage outside of ganking on no CP).

I understand some people dont like it, I cant even get Princess to play with us on no CP even though we will make him a manly princess in party.

Tbh - i don´t think you have any idea on how people on trueflame EU will go out of their way to make your life miserable if you have certain names or guildtags in your grp.

Also zerg.
It´s literally only 15+ people grps or stealth groups of 3+ snipe spammers.

Derra

Talcyndl wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

How do they get the data they want when:

- people unarguably die faster in keep fights
- people run out of resources and can´t spam skills like they could with cp
- people already greatly changed their playstyle on TF EU by not engaging in open field fights willingly and instead placing far mor emphasis on siege and taking/defending keeps

You can tell players changed their behavior within 30 minutes of playtime on trueflame if you played there regularly. So how is zos gonna get the data they wanted if people behave differently?

By realizing that the changed playstyles create less lag?

Which would lead to discussions about CP being permanently removed.
I would not continue to sub or play eso without CP pvp. It´s not for me.

raviour

Trueflame EU is a total mess, endless loads and constant crashes, queue of 150+, spent 3/4 hours today in queue's. On top of that it's full of useless players trying to farm AP and performance has got worse.

Bring back CP fast, this test is totaly illogical, has backfired and will lose zo$ $$$$$$$ if they go ahead with CP removal.

Strong PvP players are drawn to TF to play with/against the other strong players because weak ones are frustrating to play with and hurt the campaign tactically, please give us our CP campaign back and stop wasting our time.

Try standardising armour style like a uniform if you are worried about calculations. Also seperate IC and lower the population cap as the server obviously can't handle it, maybe even drop max group size to lower zergalism.

Don't blame deer, mementos or CP.

Yubarius

Derra wrote: »

How do they get the data they want when:

- people unarguably die faster in keep fights
- people run out of resources and can´t spam skills like they could with cp
- people already greatly changed their playstyle on TF EU by not engaging in open field fights willingly and instead placing far mor emphasis on siege and taking/defending keeps

You can tell players changed their behavior within 30 minutes of playtime on trueflame if you played there regularly. So how is zos gonna get the data they wanted if people behave differently?

they removed CP to test how the servers would react, not to test balance of pvp....

Derra

Yubarius wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

How do they get the data they want when:

- people unarguably die faster in keep fights
- people run out of resources and can´t spam skills like they could with cp
- people already greatly changed their playstyle on TF EU by not engaging in open field fights willingly and instead placing far mor emphasis on siege and taking/defending keeps

You can tell players changed their behavior within 30 minutes of playtime on trueflame if you played there regularly. So how is zos gonna get the data they wanted if people behave differently?

they removed CP to test how the servers would react, not to test balance of pvp....

And i´m asking how can they distinquish between differences caused by CP and those cause by different player behavior.

Minalan

Derra wrote: »

Yubarius wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

How do they get the data they want when:

- people unarguably die faster in keep fights
- people run out of resources and can´t spam skills like they could with cp
- people already greatly changed their playstyle on TF EU by not engaging in open field fights willingly and instead placing far mor emphasis on siege and taking/defending keeps

You can tell players changed their behavior within 30 minutes of playtime on trueflame if you played there regularly. So how is zos gonna get the data they wanted if people behave differently?

they removed CP to test how the servers would react, not to test balance of pvp....

And i´m asking how can they distinquish between differences caused by CP and those cause by different player behavior.

I think they're going to aggregate exactly how the server is spending it's time on different backend calculation processes, disk I/O, and network traffic with and without CP and then compare the two.

Then they'll work on any obvious outliers in both scenarios when they compare the findings. The idea is probably to find the worst performance culprits and fix the lowest hanging fruit first.

They are not permanently removing CP, nor is that even an option really. It still works in duels if you miss it that badly. They'll put it back. They're compensating people for playing a less fun zerg-ridden PVP game with better rewards to run this test. That's probably too generous, but not unappreciated.

Malamar1229

Derra wrote: »

The zergfights are not normal - that´s the thing @Decado

People die like flies in keepfights in situations where they previously did not drop HP. The zergfights end superfast compared to cp enabled campaign. There was not one stalled keepfights the whole afternoon. Everything was breach breach keep gone.

That was rare on trueflame before today.

I played there every day and i also zergsurfed quite a bit when playing casually. It´s a night and day difference in playerbehavior and ability.

Are you non chalantly making a buff keep walls thread?

Let the zergs run EoTS trains all week. If performance is still top notch then I guess thyll know it was CP...

As info, I did notice lag spikes on NA TF this afternoon and I did find quite a few ridiculous stam players running around.

Going to have to rethink my Burning Slimeweave build

xeNNNNN

The important question right now is; Did anyone actually notice a performance increase?

On EU chat was full of "its so much worse" I didn't really notice a change myself, had the usual crashes after 2 or so hours but thats it.

The only thing I did notice was the occasional spike in ability usage lag which was very noticeable from time to time, that was probably the only worse than usual part from me. from my perspective it hasn't really improved anything at all.

Its just made siege weapons hit harder, certain abilities hit harder and messed with peoples resource management a long with resistances so yeah idk, but we'll see how it goes i guess its only day one out of seven so.

xeNNNNN

[

Biro123 wrote: »

Haven't been able to get into TF.. queues are huuge! either they lowered the caps (doubtful) or every single AP-*** is trying to make the most of the double-ap..

But of a pain for those who would usually be pvping at this time....

oh yeah, you can bet its people trying to make the most of the double AP.

Friend of mine was in queue position 200 took her an hour or more to get in.

Ishammael

I spent about 2hrs or so playing this evening.

While I appreciate the spirit of the test and hope that ZoS is able to gain meaningful data.... I am with @Derra. I hate noCP gameplay. It's horrible with the current gear, poisons, and zergs. Utterly atrocious.

Kalante

Ive noticed that there is less blobs of people in certain areas sitting there and they can't anymore. I say this is glorious.

DHale

Just got off tonight from tf... no cp was an epic failure no juice... but still all the lag.

Minalan

DHale wrote: »

Just got off tonight from tf... no cp was an epic failure no juice... but still all the lag.

All the lag and twice the Zerg.

Minalan

Alright one thing to keep in mind, this whole event is all about one thing and one thing only:

Experienced PVPers clubbing baby seals to death in Cyrodiil.. This event has drawn so many new people to play that never step foot in PVP, for the promises of easy riches and quick AP. And it's hunting season for those of us who live there.

I had one guy trying to kill me by spamming elemental blockade and liquid lightning. I had to literally stop and watch for a minute while he tried so hard to keep his dots on me...

This is going to be fun while it lasts, and it's a great change of pace, but I wouldn't want this permanently.

Etaniel

Minalan wrote: »

Alright one thing to keep in mind, this whole event is all about one thing and one thing only:

Experienced PVPers clubbing baby seals to death in Cyrodiil.. This event has drawn so many new people to play that never step foot in PVP, for the promises of easy riches and quick AP. And it's hunting season for those of us who live there.

I had one guy trying to kill me by spamming elemental blockade and liquid lightning. I had to literally stop and watch for a minute while he tried so hard to keep his dots on me...

This is going to be fun while it lasts, and it's a great change of pace, but I wouldn't want this permanently.

Doesn't matter if they are experienced or not, everyone and their mother is running in at least a 10 man and camping ressources in stealth. Super fun experience

olsborg

PvP`? Im just seeing ppl trading flags at either sejanus, bleaker or nikel:) go figure if they get useful data from that

RinaldoGandolphi

Ishammael wrote: »

I spent about 2hrs or so playing this evening.

While I appreciate the spirit of the test and hope that ZoS is able to gain meaningful data.... I am with @Derra. I hate noCP gameplay. It's horrible with the current gear, poisons, and zergs. Utterly atrocious.

No CP is a shock. Losing 25% damage, 16% cost reduction, 25% regen, 25% dodge and break free, 25% crit damage, etc takes some getting used to.

No CP shows all the problems with the current CP system (everyone can be a house) and that's simply not good for the game long term.

I was saying for quite awhile that resource cost poisons can't stay as they are for no cp, the 4-5k Stam , Mag, and health lost when cp started needs return, and a few other tweaks for no cp.

TF with CP was the zergiest campaign ever. Just stack eye of the storm with grothdar in a ball group with others and CP and chase down 1-3 guys with 20 choo choo and call it fun pvp.

I have no desire to return to cp pvp and im staying in Azura. The fights are far better, no one has infinite sustain, insane damage, or stupid tankiness. Pvp feels much more fair. I'll use my CP in pve when I do dungeons, trials, and VMA.

If they made a few solid tweaks no cp would be perfect