Day one of double AP

Asgari

Having zero CP just makes any issues with classes even more blatantly obvious. You dont have the cp to make up for it. Besides that i HATE that your gear choices are even further limited in no cp.

There are so many sets in this game but with no cp you are forced into using even less of them.

Minalan

Celas_Dranacea wrote: »

Minalan wrote: »

Alright one thing to keep in mind, this whole event is all about one thing and one thing only:

Experienced PVPers clubbing baby seals to death in Cyrodiil.. This event has drawn so many new people to play that never step foot in PVP, for the promises of easy riches and quick AP. And it's hunting season for those of us who live there.

I had one guy trying to kill me by spamming elemental blockade and liquid lightning. I had to literally stop and watch for a minute while he tried so hard to keep his dots on me...

This is going to be fun while it lasts, and it's a great change of pace, but I wouldn't want this permanently.

Lol kinda true about clubbing seals @minalan though if No CP stuck around I hope more people would adapt.

I was having a great time but understand how the experience could maybe suck for folks who are not prepared.

I really enjoy the quicker pace of fights (I.e. People die faster). The lag is much better for me and it totally makes sense why ... I'm a lot more thoughtful about when I cast abilities versus spamming the crap out of certain things. Probably way fewer calculations.

Here's something I want everyone to keep in mind. Pretty soon 'open season' will be done when double AP is over. There will be no more potato hordes to fight. No more groups of five people spamming light attacks or PVE AOE skills, then dying in two shots.

It'll be just us. Experienced PVPers trying to cheese eachother with poisons, root spam, and Destro ultimate trains. Cheese is easier to deal with while having CP, I think that's why @Derra and I prefer it.

FENGRUSH

There will always be potato

Minno

FENGRUSH wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

FENGRUSH wrote: »

I do think soloing is oppressive and brutal on nonCP. There are very few builds that can make this a reality - but the game has not been balanced around it in a long time. However the small group play, is absolutely awesome, and rewarding when compared to CP campaigns where I wouldnt bother crashing into a large group of templars that have ample amount of time to react and instantly heal people to full in one click. Theres no point using things like reverb. Youre only killing people who cannot react at all in a timely fashion with heavy burst while maintaining an infinite sustain and only dying to stupid mechanics like gap closer spam freezing your character.

I honestly think we have a different definition of smallgrp play.
We usually play with two or three people. We exceed 4 maybe once a month (our grp is so small that 95% of the time we play without a templar and i´m a support dmg hybrid on sorc - a role impossible to fill on nonCP).

I think EU and NA are vastly different in playstyle just judging from your (and other NA players) videos. You can not pressure a healplar here. It´s wasted and gets you killed. If you don´t pressure dmgdealers they tear you apart.
On the server we play on you have to always pressure DDs in the process eliminating a source of dmg and keeping the healer healing.

Edit: I´m playing with amber willp pirate on noCP. I don´t think it´s a good setup - but there are hardly any choices.

I think Im in line with you, 2-4 I consider small, 4-8 medium, 8-12 large group/raid. I dont really believe groups should go beyond 12, nor heals/buffs function outside if they really want to fix server calculations and reduce the benefit of stacking up. It depends though if were on CP or noCP though what we would target though. On nonCP, theres a lot of damage dealers we will focus first, like stamblades and some sorc builds, they can go easily. But a healer can be targeted legitimately with another DPS. On a CP campaign, the healers go last, and thats kind of the problem. I wouldnt bother targeting those templars, youre just begging for them to heal to full and have all efforts wasted.

Theres a lot broken on nonCP. Medium is mostly useless of ganking or being in a group as a follow up DPS. Try to solo with it and it quickly becomes apparent why heavy is so damn good. Theres a lot of sets that shine way more there. But again, its not really balanced for it, but I prefer the flow of battles there. I hate having to ignore so many targets that are built to be tanky. I see those guys trying that on nonCP and you know you can wear down their stam before another ult is up.

Yesterday was the first time I ran a full group, but with every campaign having a que, I think we knew what we were getting into. Cyro isnt perfect, but I find myself having to ignore and walk away from so many battles on a CP campaign. I dont like that, I just cant even live like that. I like to take any battle, and on no CP even when I know our chances are virtually 0 of winning, I know we can bang in on the enemy for a good hit.

Id hope if they want to reduce calculations theyd seriously consider reducing group sizes, removing AOE caps entirely, and limiting effects of party buffs and AOE friendly skills to the group. They need to add some incentive for new players to find a group and make it clear, but itd go a long way to 'fixing' performance and behavior if that is the real end goal here than any CP changes would.

This paragraph is a good recap on the changes we need to see for pvp. Completely agree.

Moglijuana

Minno wrote: »

FENGRUSH wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

FENGRUSH wrote: »

I do think soloing is oppressive and brutal on nonCP. There are very few builds that can make this a reality - but the game has not been balanced around it in a long time. However the small group play, is absolutely awesome, and rewarding when compared to CP campaigns where I wouldnt bother crashing into a large group of templars that have ample amount of time to react and instantly heal people to full in one click. Theres no point using things like reverb. Youre only killing people who cannot react at all in a timely fashion with heavy burst while maintaining an infinite sustain and only dying to stupid mechanics like gap closer spam freezing your character.

I honestly think we have a different definition of smallgrp play.
We usually play with two or three people. We exceed 4 maybe once a month (our grp is so small that 95% of the time we play without a templar and i´m a support dmg hybrid on sorc - a role impossible to fill on nonCP).

I think EU and NA are vastly different in playstyle just judging from your (and other NA players) videos. You can not pressure a healplar here. It´s wasted and gets you killed. If you don´t pressure dmgdealers they tear you apart.
On the server we play on you have to always pressure DDs in the process eliminating a source of dmg and keeping the healer healing.

Edit: I´m playing with amber willp pirate on noCP. I don´t think it´s a good setup - but there are hardly any choices.

I think Im in line with you, 2-4 I consider small, 4-8 medium, 8-12 large group/raid. I dont really believe groups should go beyond 12, nor heals/buffs function outside if they really want to fix server calculations and reduce the benefit of stacking up. It depends though if were on CP or noCP though what we would target though. On nonCP, theres a lot of damage dealers we will focus first, like stamblades and some sorc builds, they can go easily. But a healer can be targeted legitimately with another DPS. On a CP campaign, the healers go last, and thats kind of the problem. I wouldnt bother targeting those templars, youre just begging for them to heal to full and have all efforts wasted.

Theres a lot broken on nonCP. Medium is mostly useless of ganking or being in a group as a follow up DPS. Try to solo with it and it quickly becomes apparent why heavy is so damn good. Theres a lot of sets that shine way more there. But again, its not really balanced for it, but I prefer the flow of battles there. I hate having to ignore so many targets that are built to be tanky. I see those guys trying that on nonCP and you know you can wear down their stam before another ult is up.

Yesterday was the first time I ran a full group, but with every campaign having a que, I think we knew what we were getting into. Cyro isnt perfect, but I find myself having to ignore and walk away from so many battles on a CP campaign. I dont like that, I just cant even live like that. I like to take any battle, and on no CP even when I know our chances are virtually 0 of winning, I know we can bang in on the enemy for a good hit.

Id hope if they want to reduce calculations theyd seriously consider reducing group sizes, removing AOE caps entirely, and limiting effects of party buffs and AOE friendly skills to the group. They need to add some incentive for new players to find a group and make it clear, but itd go a long way to 'fixing' performance and behavior if that is the real end goal here than any CP changes would.

This paragraph is a good recap on the changes we need to see for pvp. Completely agree.

+1

Sanct16

What exactly do you expect a group size limit of 12 to achieve? For the guild-raids it won't make a difference and the pugzerg is mostly ungroup anyway.

FENGRUSH

Sanct16 wrote: »

What exactly do you expect a group size limit of 12 to achieve? For the guild-raids it won't make a difference and the pugzerg is mostly ungroup anyway.

Youd see the difference when AOE busts tear through lines and springs/remembrance/BOL isnt covering a wide amount of options - only those in your group. Note; NO AOE CAPS (like having reactive 5pc bonus when standing next to enough potatoes).

IcyDeadPeople

Etaniel wrote: »

IcyDeadPeople wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

IcyDeadPeople wrote: »

Pallio wrote: »

Excellent idea,.they should keep it this way, PvP is actually fun again and feels worth playing with higher rewards and level playing feild.

They could simply increase the AP on Azura's star. I imagine that would encourage more people to play there.

Why does noCP need encouragement?

Just let people play where and how they want?

I think it would help encourage PVE'ers to play. There are tons of them in Cyrodiil right now.

Maybe once per month some kind of double AP weekend across the board in all campaigns.

More people that have no shame in Xv1ing you to the edges of the map? No thanks. I'd like to keep Cyrodiil populated with people who enjoy PvP.

What is your concept of a healthy PVP population?

It is currently a fraction of what it used to be. At launch we had 10 campaigns, each of them with much higher pop lock, all kinds of battles all over the map 24/7, even weeknights.

Now on PC NA we have one high pop campaign, two that are usually kind of dead with not much going and I have no idea about BWB. Trueflame which has the highest population, is sometimes dead late at night Pacific time.

This week suddenly we have a lot of players all over the place again, all night long on multiple campaigns. It's fun! Have you never played on a dead campaign where you have to run around trying to find somebody to fight?

.

Giraffon

You know what? I think I'll take this week off from PvP. All 8 of my characters already have Vigor so AP means nothing to me except rank which so far doesn't count for much of anything.

Derra

Moglijuana wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Moglijuana wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Moglijuana wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Moglijuana wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

RinaldoGandolphi wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

If you have no sustain but simply kill every enemy instantly because you fight them 3v10 it hardly matters that you have no sustain.
Especially as your enemies can no longer kite and draw you out as it costs too much resources.

I´m having the same HP basically ~600 difference while missing effectively ~5% dmg from CP, 12% crit, 7000 magica and 23% critdmg. In what world do you (in a small grp of two or three people) kill targets faster than on CP.

I´m doing 50% of my usual dmg on targets that have about 10% less HP than usual. They do not die faster - atleast for me.

So in the end we kill targets slower and run out of resources faster. But stamsorcs are go(o)d there. So i get where you´re coming from

My Magsorc seems to kill about as fast on No-Cp as cp if built correctly. People are squishier(even in Heavy Armor) but you also deal a little less damage so its a trade. People die faster because resource sustain is an issue. I got my Sorc up to 3900 mag recovery after taking a resource under certain conditions and if im not careful i can run dry even with that. it helps a little against poisons, but isn't a silver bullet.

CP is a huge crutch in this game, and outside of PVE the game really isn't designed around it like many people say. They designed the CP system solely for PVE and just included it in PVP. There isn't a single skill in the game that was re-designed for CP. they changed the numbers and such....instead of having 3k health in 1.5 you have 29k health or whatever now.

All the CP system does for PVP is allow everyone to be their own tank, healer, and DPS. it causes massive class imbalances due to thinks like Bastion, increased Crit damage, etc....Every class actually feels balanced without CP. No one is immortal anymore...not everyone is running around as gods in Cyrodiil.


im really hoping they remove CP completely from PVP and give us back the 4k health, mag, and stam they took away from us in 1.5 and hid behind the CP system. They cna then tweak poisons a little bit, and tweak a few armor sets, and we will have a more skill based pvp.

Small scale engagements are much more rewarding with No CP. !vX should be a bit harder, but 2v2 and 3v3 is where no cp really shines.

I had an EPIC 3v3 with a few EP at Blackboot Farm last night....those guys fought really well and that fight could have went either way....but none of us were immortal....the DK couldn't just tape his right mouse button down forever, the two Sorcs(myself and the other one) just couldn't endlessly shield, and the two Templars couldn't just wave their hand once and get back to full health. Even if my 3 man lost that fight, I still would have thought it was was fun, and I would have congrats to the other 3 guys....this is how PVP felt in the 1.0-1.5 iteration of the game...its what got me hooked on PVP in the first place,.


as i said regardless, im staying in Azura...CP is terrible for PVP and thats become really apparent to me now....

And i simply not agree with you - because it´s personal preference.
I hope they keep the option to pvp with and without cp and let people choose how they want to play.

Also i have no idea how you kill as fast as on CP campaign. It´s simply not possible as you can´t make up for the dmg lost.

The reason people are able to kill faster is because people have less resources to be defensive. Yes you lose damage, but players are now susceptible to critical mistakes that allow enemy combos to actually work the first time they hit. No more holding block forever until a pot is up, no more endless shield stacking, no more excessive amount of dodge rolling etc. You mess up, you will die. CP lets you make plenty of mistakes and still stay alive.

If you make a mistake in CP you will die because i deal enough dmg to kill you.

NoCP is a lot more forgiving in that regard.

But hey maybe it´s just NA/EU difference again.

Um, no. I get hit harder, and more consistently in no CP when compared to CP. Because everyone is doing the same damage as their counterparts for the most part. It's not possible to stack 25% into a damage mitigation against certain specs anymore and resource management matters more than ever.

In CP campaigns you will literally see people on the ground out of stamina getting hit and somehow they can stay alive if all their CP points are placed to counter w.e is currently hitting them. No CP, if you're on the ground helpless, ANYTHING can kill you.

Sorry but you need to get better at math.

25% dmg specced dmg reduction vs 25% specced dmg will result in 7.5% less dmg compared to 0% dmg reduction vs 0% dmg increase.
However you don´t figure in critdmg, critpassive and statgain from CP. The counter to those require the same points as dmg reduction. As a result you can get less dmg reduction from CP than you can gain dmg increases.
Also basically nobody specs 25% into one reduction because it leaves them vulnerable towards other specs.

Lastly you can simply have a look at cp dmg to hp ratio and noncp dmg to hp ratio.
On CP i can hit for 14k fragments on targets with 22k hp.
On nonCP i hit 8k fragments on targets with 20k HP.

I kill people a lot faster on CP - unless they´re only setup to tank. In which case i comfortably ignore them.

P.S. I actually stack 25% in elemental defender, soooooo, wrong again.

Well then you either take enourmous critdmg or physical dmg builds destroy you. We have both types of dmg in our grp. One of them will have an advantage.

Your hypothetical statement is only true for tanks. But tanks are irrelevant in esos meta.

100 into ele defender, 50 into hardy, 50 into resistant in heavy impen. I do not take much damage in general. And I'm not even a tank =0.

To reiterate my point. Said CP placements above allow me to do tons of stupid things while getting frags to the face, sitting in destro ulti's etc. Move into no CP. A little level CP 100 can destro ulti into me, and If i don't react quick enough or am low on resources, I die. Resulting in a faster TTK. End of story and the entire point of me commenting.

I just realized you´re a magDK - we ignore those entirely i´m sorry for what zos did to your class.

Etaniel

IcyDeadPeople wrote: »

Etaniel wrote: »

IcyDeadPeople wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

IcyDeadPeople wrote: »

Pallio wrote: »

Excellent idea,.they should keep it this way, PvP is actually fun again and feels worth playing with higher rewards and level playing feild.

They could simply increase the AP on Azura's star. I imagine that would encourage more people to play there.

Why does noCP need encouragement?

Just let people play where and how they want?

I think it would help encourage PVE'ers to play. There are tons of them in Cyrodiil right now.

Maybe once per month some kind of double AP weekend across the board in all campaigns.

More people that have no shame in Xv1ing you to the edges of the map? No thanks. I'd like to keep Cyrodiil populated with people who enjoy PvP.

What is your concept of a healthy PVP population?

It is currently a fraction of what it used to be. At launch we had 10 campaigns, each of them with much higher pop lock, all kinds of battles all over the map 24/7, even weeknights.

Now on PC NA we have one high pop campaign, two that are usually kind of dead with not much going and I have no idea about BWB. Trueflame which has the highest population, is sometimes dead late at night Pacific time.

This week suddenly we have a lot of players all over the place again, all night long on multiple campaigns. It's fun! Have you never played on a dead campaign where you have to run around trying to find somebody to fight?

That wasn't my point, I agree that it sucks having very few active campaigns. But I don't like it when the campaigns are filled with people who'se goal isn't to pvp, but just to unlock their vigor/caltrops etc and who have no respect for other players because they just see them as walking bags of AP.

A guild group of PvPers who have a bit of decency won't chase a solo to the edges of the map, while some PvErs new to Cyro might be inclined to follow the herd wherever.

Of course there's a place for everyone, and PvErs are welcome to join, but I don't want them to be the overwhelming majority of the Cyrodiil playerbase.

Minno

Sanct16 wrote: »

What exactly do you expect a group size limit of 12 to achieve? For the guild-raids it won't make a difference and the pugzerg is mostly ungroup anyway.

Instead of the server checking how many of your 24+ players were hit by a buff, it would cap it to 12 and thus, reducing the need of the server to keep checking on players outside of this.

Also limiting the group size means you need to organize your builds around 12 people not 24 player stacks.

FENGRUSH

Minno wrote: »

Sanct16 wrote: »

What exactly do you expect a group size limit of 12 to achieve? For the guild-raids it won't make a difference and the pugzerg is mostly ungroup anyway.

Instead of the server checking how many of your 24+ players were hit by a buff, it would cap it to 12 and thus, reducing the need of the server to keep checking on players outside of this.

Also limiting the group size means you need to organize your builds around 12 people not 24 player stacks.

Yep - even beyond that, at large keep fights, if a healing spring hits inside a keep and ticks 4x and roughly 30-40 players are running around the flag where its at... its checking all 30-40 HP and seeing who is lowest to apply the heal. When you fire off regen, its checking all 40 in the area to see where it should apply. When you ward and hit someone outside of group, its checking to see who is lowest. Every buff you cast that applies minor <X> as a passive, its checking everybody..... all the time... times a few dozen per second on both sides.

If it was *FORCED* to only ever check 12, its much easier to say if <X> or <Y> works in Cyrodiil to scale. Today, they cant do that. And as they always add more content and skills (which we want, and is good) it has negative impacts on Cyrodiil. Essentially, more is worse.. and it sucks. Beyond that, if there is no benefit to having 2 groups of 12 stacked on top of each other... why would they? Would they assume the risk for any reason outside of keeping their 12 together to function as a group? Rather than 2 raids of 24 functioning as a horde? Do you want strategy at all or just brute force and lag?

NBrookus

Minno wrote: »

Sanct16 wrote: »

What exactly do you expect a group size limit of 12 to achieve? For the guild-raids it won't make a difference and the pugzerg is mostly ungroup anyway.

Instead of the server checking how many of your 24+ players were hit by a buff, it would cap it to 12 and thus, reducing the need of the server to keep checking on players outside of this.

Also limiting the group size means you need to organize your builds around 12 people not 24 player stacks.

Limiting group size alone won't stop the zerg guilds from just stacking more multiple groups of 12 instead of multiple groups of 24. And will have no effect on the ungrouped PUG zergs and zerg surfers. There were a good 150 players at one BRK battle on Haderus last night. At that point, "groups" are totally irrelevant other than coordinating specific maneuvers.

It would only work if most buffs were limited to groups and possibly even healing prioritized group members.

Another option is to revise the emp requirements to include alternate ways of getting/losing emp other than just controlling the ring keeps. Spitballing here: but what if emp was controlling all your faction home keeps plus 3 other ring keeps? Or all your home keeps plus any 5 enemy keeps? If suddenly Brindle/Dragon/Drake was strategic for more than just transit and home keep bonuses, they would attract more steady action and there'd be less last emp keep stacking.

Ishammael

Derra wrote: »

Moglijuana wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Moglijuana wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Moglijuana wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Moglijuana wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

RinaldoGandolphi wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

If you have no sustain but simply kill every enemy instantly because you fight them 3v10 it hardly matters that you have no sustain.
Especially as your enemies can no longer kite and draw you out as it costs too much resources.

I´m having the same HP basically ~600 difference while missing effectively ~5% dmg from CP, 12% crit, 7000 magica and 23% critdmg. In what world do you (in a small grp of two or three people) kill targets faster than on CP.

I´m doing 50% of my usual dmg on targets that have about 10% less HP than usual. They do not die faster - atleast for me.

So in the end we kill targets slower and run out of resources faster. But stamsorcs are go(o)d there. So i get where you´re coming from

My Magsorc seems to kill about as fast on No-Cp as cp if built correctly. People are squishier(even in Heavy Armor) but you also deal a little less damage so its a trade. People die faster because resource sustain is an issue. I got my Sorc up to 3900 mag recovery after taking a resource under certain conditions and if im not careful i can run dry even with that. it helps a little against poisons, but isn't a silver bullet.

CP is a huge crutch in this game, and outside of PVE the game really isn't designed around it like many people say. They designed the CP system solely for PVE and just included it in PVP. There isn't a single skill in the game that was re-designed for CP. they changed the numbers and such....instead of having 3k health in 1.5 you have 29k health or whatever now.

All the CP system does for PVP is allow everyone to be their own tank, healer, and DPS. it causes massive class imbalances due to thinks like Bastion, increased Crit damage, etc....Every class actually feels balanced without CP. No one is immortal anymore...not everyone is running around as gods in Cyrodiil.


im really hoping they remove CP completely from PVP and give us back the 4k health, mag, and stam they took away from us in 1.5 and hid behind the CP system. They cna then tweak poisons a little bit, and tweak a few armor sets, and we will have a more skill based pvp.

Small scale engagements are much more rewarding with No CP. !vX should be a bit harder, but 2v2 and 3v3 is where no cp really shines.

I had an EPIC 3v3 with a few EP at Blackboot Farm last night....those guys fought really well and that fight could have went either way....but none of us were immortal....the DK couldn't just tape his right mouse button down forever, the two Sorcs(myself and the other one) just couldn't endlessly shield, and the two Templars couldn't just wave their hand once and get back to full health. Even if my 3 man lost that fight, I still would have thought it was was fun, and I would have congrats to the other 3 guys....this is how PVP felt in the 1.0-1.5 iteration of the game...its what got me hooked on PVP in the first place,.


as i said regardless, im staying in Azura...CP is terrible for PVP and thats become really apparent to me now....

And i simply not agree with you - because it´s personal preference.
I hope they keep the option to pvp with and without cp and let people choose how they want to play.

Also i have no idea how you kill as fast as on CP campaign. It´s simply not possible as you can´t make up for the dmg lost.

The reason people are able to kill faster is because people have less resources to be defensive. Yes you lose damage, but players are now susceptible to critical mistakes that allow enemy combos to actually work the first time they hit. No more holding block forever until a pot is up, no more endless shield stacking, no more excessive amount of dodge rolling etc. You mess up, you will die. CP lets you make plenty of mistakes and still stay alive.

If you make a mistake in CP you will die because i deal enough dmg to kill you.

NoCP is a lot more forgiving in that regard.

But hey maybe it´s just NA/EU difference again.

Um, no. I get hit harder, and more consistently in no CP when compared to CP. Because everyone is doing the same damage as their counterparts for the most part. It's not possible to stack 25% into a damage mitigation against certain specs anymore and resource management matters more than ever.

In CP campaigns you will literally see people on the ground out of stamina getting hit and somehow they can stay alive if all their CP points are placed to counter w.e is currently hitting them. No CP, if you're on the ground helpless, ANYTHING can kill you.

Sorry but you need to get better at math.

25% dmg specced dmg reduction vs 25% specced dmg will result in 7.5% less dmg compared to 0% dmg reduction vs 0% dmg increase.
However you don´t figure in critdmg, critpassive and statgain from CP. The counter to those require the same points as dmg reduction. As a result you can get less dmg reduction from CP than you can gain dmg increases.
Also basically nobody specs 25% into one reduction because it leaves them vulnerable towards other specs.

Lastly you can simply have a look at cp dmg to hp ratio and noncp dmg to hp ratio.
On CP i can hit for 14k fragments on targets with 22k hp.
On nonCP i hit 8k fragments on targets with 20k HP.

I kill people a lot faster on CP - unless they´re only setup to tank. In which case i comfortably ignore them.

P.S. I actually stack 25% in elemental defender, soooooo, wrong again.

Well then you either take enourmous critdmg or physical dmg builds destroy you. We have both types of dmg in our grp. One of them will have an advantage.

Your hypothetical statement is only true for tanks. But tanks are irrelevant in esos meta.

100 into ele defender, 50 into hardy, 50 into resistant in heavy impen. I do not take much damage in general. And I'm not even a tank =0.

To reiterate my point. Said CP placements above allow me to do tons of stupid things while getting frags to the face, sitting in destro ulti's etc. Move into no CP. A little level CP 100 can destro ulti into me, and If i don't react quick enough or am low on resources, I die. Resulting in a faster TTK. End of story and the entire point of me commenting.

I just realized you´re a magDK - we ignore those entirely i´m sorry for what zos did to your class.

MDK is really dreadful. All of its problems are completely exacerbated on noCP.

FENGRUSH

NBrookus wrote: »

Minno wrote: »

Sanct16 wrote: »

What exactly do you expect a group size limit of 12 to achieve? For the guild-raids it won't make a difference and the pugzerg is mostly ungroup anyway.

Instead of the server checking how many of your 24+ players were hit by a buff, it would cap it to 12 and thus, reducing the need of the server to keep checking on players outside of this.

Also limiting the group size means you need to organize your builds around 12 people not 24 player stacks.

Limiting group size alone won't stop the zerg guilds from just stacking more multiple groups of 12 instead of multiple groups of 24. And will have no effect on the ungrouped PUG zergs and zerg surfers. There were a good 150 players at one BRK battle on Haderus last night. At that point, "groups" are totally irrelevant other than coordinating specific maneuvers.

It would only work if most buffs were limited to groups and possibly even healing prioritized group members.

Another option is to revise the emp requirements to include alternate ways of getting/losing emp other than just controlling the ring keeps. Spitballing here: but what if emp was controlling all your faction home keeps plus 3 other ring keeps? Or all your home keeps plus any 5 enemy keeps? If suddenly Brindle/Dragon/Drake was strategic for more than just transit and home keep bonuses, they would attract more steady action and there'd be less last emp keep stacking.

Try to zergsurf out of group without any heals on your bar. See if you get any heals. Chances are - you will get *a lot*. This is the point. If youre missing it, I dont know what to say.

WhiteMage

Derra wrote: »

Moglijuana wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

RinaldoGandolphi wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

If you have no sustain but simply kill every enemy instantly because you fight them 3v10 it hardly matters that you have no sustain.
Especially as your enemies can no longer kite and draw you out as it costs too much resources.

I´m having the same HP basically ~600 difference while missing effectively ~5% dmg from CP, 12% crit, 7000 magica and 23% critdmg. In what world do you (in a small grp of two or three people) kill targets faster than on CP.

I´m doing 50% of my usual dmg on targets that have about 10% less HP than usual. They do not die faster - atleast for me.

So in the end we kill targets slower and run out of resources faster. But stamsorcs are go(o)d there. So i get where you´re coming from

My Magsorc seems to kill about as fast on No-Cp as cp if built correctly. People are squishier(even in Heavy Armor) but you also deal a little less damage so its a trade. People die faster because resource sustain is an issue. I got my Sorc up to 3900 mag recovery after taking a resource under certain conditions and if im not careful i can run dry even with that. it helps a little against poisons, but isn't a silver bullet.

CP is a huge crutch in this game, and outside of PVE the game really isn't designed around it like many people say. They designed the CP system solely for PVE and just included it in PVP. There isn't a single skill in the game that was re-designed for CP. they changed the numbers and such....instead of having 3k health in 1.5 you have 29k health or whatever now.

All the CP system does for PVP is allow everyone to be their own tank, healer, and DPS. it causes massive class imbalances due to thinks like Bastion, increased Crit damage, etc....Every class actually feels balanced without CP. No one is immortal anymore...not everyone is running around as gods in Cyrodiil.


im really hoping they remove CP completely from PVP and give us back the 4k health, mag, and stam they took away from us in 1.5 and hid behind the CP system. They cna then tweak poisons a little bit, and tweak a few armor sets, and we will have a more skill based pvp.

Small scale engagements are much more rewarding with No CP. !vX should be a bit harder, but 2v2 and 3v3 is where no cp really shines.

I had an EPIC 3v3 with a few EP at Blackboot Farm last night....those guys fought really well and that fight could have went either way....but none of us were immortal....the DK couldn't just tape his right mouse button down forever, the two Sorcs(myself and the other one) just couldn't endlessly shield, and the two Templars couldn't just wave their hand once and get back to full health. Even if my 3 man lost that fight, I still would have thought it was was fun, and I would have congrats to the other 3 guys....this is how PVP felt in the 1.0-1.5 iteration of the game...its what got me hooked on PVP in the first place,.


as i said regardless, im staying in Azura...CP is terrible for PVP and thats become really apparent to me now....

And i simply not agree with you - because it´s personal preference.
I hope they keep the option to pvp with and without cp and let people choose how they want to play.

Also i have no idea how you kill as fast as on CP campaign. It´s simply not possible as you can´t make up for the dmg lost.

The reason people are able to kill faster is because people have less resources to be defensive. Yes you lose damage, but players are now susceptible to critical mistakes that allow enemy combos to actually work the first time they hit. No more holding block forever until a pot is up, no more endless shield stacking, no more excessive amount of dodge rolling etc. You mess up, you will die. CP lets you make plenty of mistakes and still stay alive.

If you make a mistake in CP you will die because i deal enough dmg to kill you.

NoCP is a lot more forgiving in that regard.

But hey maybe it´s just NA/EU difference again.

You're doing it wrong.

NBrookus

FENGRUSH wrote: »

NBrookus wrote: »

Minno wrote: »

Sanct16 wrote: »

What exactly do you expect a group size limit of 12 to achieve? For the guild-raids it won't make a difference and the pugzerg is mostly ungroup anyway.

Instead of the server checking how many of your 24+ players were hit by a buff, it would cap it to 12 and thus, reducing the need of the server to keep checking on players outside of this.

Also limiting the group size means you need to organize your builds around 12 people not 24 player stacks.

Limiting group size alone won't stop the zerg guilds from just stacking more multiple groups of 12 instead of multiple groups of 24. And will have no effect on the ungrouped PUG zergs and zerg surfers. There were a good 150 players at one BRK battle on Haderus last night. At that point, "groups" are totally irrelevant other than coordinating specific maneuvers.

It would only work if most buffs were limited to groups and possibly even healing prioritized group members.

Another option is to revise the emp requirements to include alternate ways of getting/losing emp other than just controlling the ring keeps. Spitballing here: but what if emp was controlling all your faction home keeps plus 3 other ring keeps? Or all your home keeps plus any 5 enemy keeps? If suddenly Brindle/Dragon/Drake was strategic for more than just transit and home keep bonuses, they would attract more steady action and there'd be less last emp keep stacking.

Try to zergsurf out of group without any heals on your bar. See if you get any heals. Chances are - you will get *a lot*. This is the point. If youre missing it, I dont know what to say.

Totally agree. Thanks for that mutagen spam where I'm stealthed up. And when I'm healing, it's frustrating have my heals go to randoms instead of group member X who desperately needs it.

I mostly avoid zerg surfing but this week it's almost mandatory unless you want to constantly steamrolled.

Satiar

Minno wrote: »

Sanct16 wrote: »

What exactly do you expect a group size limit of 12 to achieve? For the guild-raids it won't make a difference and the pugzerg is mostly ungroup anyway.

Instead of the server checking how many of your 24+ players were hit by a buff, it would cap it to 12 and thus, reducing the need of the server to keep checking on players outside of this.

Also limiting the group size means you need to organize your builds around 12 people not 24 player stacks.

I run the same build for 12 or 24. So does 99% of my raid.

I'd also be vastly more effective running two groups of 10-12 than 1 24man, only reason I don't is laziness and a sense of ESO tradition.

Minno

NBrookus wrote: »

Minno wrote: »

Sanct16 wrote: »

What exactly do you expect a group size limit of 12 to achieve? For the guild-raids it won't make a difference and the pugzerg is mostly ungroup anyway.

Instead of the server checking how many of your 24+ players were hit by a buff, it would cap it to 12 and thus, reducing the need of the server to keep checking on players outside of this.

Also limiting the group size means you need to organize your builds around 12 people not 24 player stacks.

Limiting group size alone won't stop the zerg guilds from just stacking more multiple groups of 12 instead of multiple groups of 24. And will have no effect on the ungrouped PUG zergs and zerg surfers. There were a good 150 players at one BRK battle on Haderus last night. At that point, "groups" are totally irrelevant other than coordinating specific maneuvers.

It would only work if most buffs were limited to groups and possibly even healing prioritized group members.

Another option is to revise the emp requirements to include alternate ways of getting/losing emp other than just controlling the ring keeps. Spitballing here: but what if emp was controlling all your faction home keeps plus 3 other ring keeps? Or all your home keeps plus any 5 enemy keeps? If suddenly Brindle/Dragon/Drake was strategic for more than just transit and home keep bonuses, they would attract more steady action and there'd be less last emp keep stacking.

Who said anything about stopping? AOE cap removal+ nCP with a will timed ulti burst will do that.

The reduced group size is too get players to start thinking about how they play pvp. And to help reduce the calculations needed. If group buffs are limited for 12 man raid only, the second raid that you stack with need the same leadership and same build makeup.

Sure you can stack numbers, but in nCP this proves bad and the group's that move as 12 have longer survivability than the 24 zergs pressing a few buttons; it's about pvp identity and the ability to play the game as fair as possible.

IcyDeadPeople

Etaniel wrote: »

IcyDeadPeople wrote: »

Etaniel wrote: »

IcyDeadPeople wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

IcyDeadPeople wrote: »

Pallio wrote: »

Excellent idea,.they should keep it this way, PvP is actually fun again and feels worth playing with higher rewards and level playing feild.

They could simply increase the AP on Azura's star. I imagine that would encourage more people to play there.

Why does noCP need encouragement?

Just let people play where and how they want?

I think it would help encourage PVE'ers to play. There are tons of them in Cyrodiil right now.

Maybe once per month some kind of double AP weekend across the board in all campaigns.

More people that have no shame in Xv1ing you to the edges of the map? No thanks. I'd like to keep Cyrodiil populated with people who enjoy PvP.

What is your concept of a healthy PVP population?

It is currently a fraction of what it used to be. At launch we had 10 campaigns, each of them with much higher pop lock, all kinds of battles all over the map 24/7, even weeknights.

Now on PC NA we have one high pop campaign, two that are usually kind of dead with not much going and I have no idea about BWB. Trueflame which has the highest population, is sometimes dead late at night Pacific time.

This week suddenly we have a lot of players all over the place again, all night long on multiple campaigns. It's fun! Have you never played on a dead campaign where you have to run around trying to find somebody to fight?

That wasn't my point, I agree that it sucks having very few active campaigns. But I don't like it when the campaigns are filled with people who'se goal isn't to pvp, but just to unlock their vigor/caltrops etc and who have no respect for other players because they just see them as walking bags of AP.

A guild group of PvPers who have a bit of decency won't chase a solo to the edges of the map, while some PvErs new to Cyro might be inclined to follow the herd wherever.

Of course there's a place for everyone, and PvErs are welcome to join, but I don't want them to be the overwhelming majority of the Cyrodiil playerbase.

Are we playing the same game? On EU server, groups are polite and don't kill solo players? In NA I get rolled over constantly and teabagged and honestly doesn't even bother me, I just respawn and ride back. At least when we have lots of battles all over the place, if I die I can quickly find some more trouble to get into.

Incidentally how do you imagine all the existing players in Cyrodiil ended up here? Some have been here since beta, but many initially came just to get vigor or some PVE skill, got hooked and never left. Maybe they are still looking for the wayshrine =P

Moglijuana

Derra wrote: »

Moglijuana wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Moglijuana wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Moglijuana wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Moglijuana wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

RinaldoGandolphi wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

If you have no sustain but simply kill every enemy instantly because you fight them 3v10 it hardly matters that you have no sustain.
Especially as your enemies can no longer kite and draw you out as it costs too much resources.

I´m having the same HP basically ~600 difference while missing effectively ~5% dmg from CP, 12% crit, 7000 magica and 23% critdmg. In what world do you (in a small grp of two or three people) kill targets faster than on CP.

I´m doing 50% of my usual dmg on targets that have about 10% less HP than usual. They do not die faster - atleast for me.

So in the end we kill targets slower and run out of resources faster. But stamsorcs are go(o)d there. So i get where you´re coming from

My Magsorc seems to kill about as fast on No-Cp as cp if built correctly. People are squishier(even in Heavy Armor) but you also deal a little less damage so its a trade. People die faster because resource sustain is an issue. I got my Sorc up to 3900 mag recovery after taking a resource under certain conditions and if im not careful i can run dry even with that. it helps a little against poisons, but isn't a silver bullet.

CP is a huge crutch in this game, and outside of PVE the game really isn't designed around it like many people say. They designed the CP system solely for PVE and just included it in PVP. There isn't a single skill in the game that was re-designed for CP. they changed the numbers and such....instead of having 3k health in 1.5 you have 29k health or whatever now.

All the CP system does for PVP is allow everyone to be their own tank, healer, and DPS. it causes massive class imbalances due to thinks like Bastion, increased Crit damage, etc....Every class actually feels balanced without CP. No one is immortal anymore...not everyone is running around as gods in Cyrodiil.


im really hoping they remove CP completely from PVP and give us back the 4k health, mag, and stam they took away from us in 1.5 and hid behind the CP system. They cna then tweak poisons a little bit, and tweak a few armor sets, and we will have a more skill based pvp.

Small scale engagements are much more rewarding with No CP. !vX should be a bit harder, but 2v2 and 3v3 is where no cp really shines.

I had an EPIC 3v3 with a few EP at Blackboot Farm last night....those guys fought really well and that fight could have went either way....but none of us were immortal....the DK couldn't just tape his right mouse button down forever, the two Sorcs(myself and the other one) just couldn't endlessly shield, and the two Templars couldn't just wave their hand once and get back to full health. Even if my 3 man lost that fight, I still would have thought it was was fun, and I would have congrats to the other 3 guys....this is how PVP felt in the 1.0-1.5 iteration of the game...its what got me hooked on PVP in the first place,.


as i said regardless, im staying in Azura...CP is terrible for PVP and thats become really apparent to me now....

And i simply not agree with you - because it´s personal preference.
I hope they keep the option to pvp with and without cp and let people choose how they want to play.

Also i have no idea how you kill as fast as on CP campaign. It´s simply not possible as you can´t make up for the dmg lost.

The reason people are able to kill faster is because people have less resources to be defensive. Yes you lose damage, but players are now susceptible to critical mistakes that allow enemy combos to actually work the first time they hit. No more holding block forever until a pot is up, no more endless shield stacking, no more excessive amount of dodge rolling etc. You mess up, you will die. CP lets you make plenty of mistakes and still stay alive.

If you make a mistake in CP you will die because i deal enough dmg to kill you.

NoCP is a lot more forgiving in that regard.

But hey maybe it´s just NA/EU difference again.

Um, no. I get hit harder, and more consistently in no CP when compared to CP. Because everyone is doing the same damage as their counterparts for the most part. It's not possible to stack 25% into a damage mitigation against certain specs anymore and resource management matters more than ever.

In CP campaigns you will literally see people on the ground out of stamina getting hit and somehow they can stay alive if all their CP points are placed to counter w.e is currently hitting them. No CP, if you're on the ground helpless, ANYTHING can kill you.

Sorry but you need to get better at math.

25% dmg specced dmg reduction vs 25% specced dmg will result in 7.5% less dmg compared to 0% dmg reduction vs 0% dmg increase.
However you don´t figure in critdmg, critpassive and statgain from CP. The counter to those require the same points as dmg reduction. As a result you can get less dmg reduction from CP than you can gain dmg increases.
Also basically nobody specs 25% into one reduction because it leaves them vulnerable towards other specs.

Lastly you can simply have a look at cp dmg to hp ratio and noncp dmg to hp ratio.
On CP i can hit for 14k fragments on targets with 22k hp.
On nonCP i hit 8k fragments on targets with 20k HP.

I kill people a lot faster on CP - unless they´re only setup to tank. In which case i comfortably ignore them.

P.S. I actually stack 25% in elemental defender, soooooo, wrong again.

Well then you either take enourmous critdmg or physical dmg builds destroy you. We have both types of dmg in our grp. One of them will have an advantage.

Your hypothetical statement is only true for tanks. But tanks are irrelevant in esos meta.

100 into ele defender, 50 into hardy, 50 into resistant in heavy impen. I do not take much damage in general. And I'm not even a tank =0.

To reiterate my point. Said CP placements above allow me to do tons of stupid things while getting frags to the face, sitting in destro ulti's etc. Move into no CP. A little level CP 100 can destro ulti into me, and If i don't react quick enough or am low on resources, I die. Resulting in a faster TTK. End of story and the entire point of me commenting.

I just realized you´re a magDK - we ignore those entirely i´m sorry for what zos did to your class.

Don't be sorry. I do very well =D.

FENGRUSH

Satiar wrote: »

Minno wrote: »

Sanct16 wrote: »

What exactly do you expect a group size limit of 12 to achieve? For the guild-raids it won't make a difference and the pugzerg is mostly ungroup anyway.

Instead of the server checking how many of your 24+ players were hit by a buff, it would cap it to 12 and thus, reducing the need of the server to keep checking on players outside of this.

Also limiting the group size means you need to organize your builds around 12 people not 24 player stacks.

I run the same build for 12 or 24. So does 99% of my raid.

I'd also be vastly more effective running two groups of 10-12 than 1 24man, only reason I don't is laziness and a sense of ESO tradition.

I agree you would. Good players with good builds that make good decisions will shine in that environment.

In environments like this though:


If your damage dealers died going through the doorway, you couldnt just run along with the rest of the other groups being a healer still. Today you can. You could pop a remembrance and be in no party there at that doorway and make a clutch play for pact militia raid party 1-3.

Minno

FENGRUSH wrote: »

Satiar wrote: »

Minno wrote: »

Sanct16 wrote: »

What exactly do you expect a group size limit of 12 to achieve? For the guild-raids it won't make a difference and the pugzerg is mostly ungroup anyway.

Instead of the server checking how many of your 24+ players were hit by a buff, it would cap it to 12 and thus, reducing the need of the server to keep checking on players outside of this.

Also limiting the group size means you need to organize your builds around 12 people not 24 player stacks.

I run the same build for 12 or 24. So does 99% of my raid.

I'd also be vastly more effective running two groups of 10-12 than 1 24man, only reason I don't is laziness and a sense of ESO tradition.

I agree you would. Good players with good builds that make good decisions will shine in that environment.

In environments like this though:


If your damage dealers died going through the doorway, you couldnt just run along with the rest of the other groups being a healer still. Today you can. You could pop a remembrance and be in no party there at that doorway and make a clutch play for pact militia raid party 1-3.

This is what I was basically going to write next. Because the healing can jump between groups, you can escape many mistakes. Currently having two 12 man raids is the same as one because if one wipes the other can carry the healing; ultimately extending the fight and adding additional server calculations that are not needed.

Forcing the group limit only goes hand in hand in reviewing how groups recieve these buffs/debuffs. And discussing what that means for groups to make it an enjoyable pvp experience for all.

visionality

Guys, contrary to all the complaints in this thread, I actually enjoy this no-cp-week!

Some assesments from my side:

WAY less lag in tf!!! Even when deffing the last emp keep with everybody from every alliance there, my ping NEVER went higher than 320. Before this week, 999+ would have been normal.I can't say why some players still complain about lag (addons?), but mine is gone - not totally, but a lot. I have never died from a non-existent shield that I casted 2 seconds ago and that still didn't pop due to the lag.

Fights are shorter but also more enjoyable. Heavy tanks either loose their crazy damage mitigation or they are nothing but walking stones (annoying, but harmless and good to fill ultimates). The perma-healers run out of magica. All of a sudden, skill IS a factor again despite the proc-sets.

A lot more movement on the map. Due to the shorter fights, the map-dynamic is much higher. Endless fights over 1 stupid outpost are not totally gone, but they are not typical anymore.

Cold harbor weapons and sieges in general are op. TF-players learned to focus siege weapons on the same target a long time ago. Now no heal/purge can help anymore, a triple-hit is insta-death to everybody. Same about entering keeps or outposts - the unavoidable damage is too high imo.

Many skills are just too expensive for their costs. It's self-explanatory, I think.


If I had to choose between old lag and new no-cp, I would prefer the no-cp, tbh. It requires some adjustements in playstile, but I really enjoy being able to count on my skills again instead of being dependent on how well (and quickly) the server handles my requests. Or not.

geonsocal

loved seeing everyone dropping like flies (myself included)...

on ps4/na last night we had some excellent AvAvA action at the aleswell farm (always appreciate AD making the trip north)...probably had somewhere in the range of 60 to 80 players in the area for at least a couple of hours...

it was kinda funny - not sure if it was "planned", but it definitely seems like we were all playing capture the flag...just taking turns at the flag and destroying the tower there...

so nice to see most folks not camping for d-ticks...at one point got 23k for taking the farm...

sure at times it can be hard to visually recognize the destro ult before it kills ya - but, if there is a group of players heading your way - chances are very good they're trying to bring the pain with their "eye of whatever"...

watch the flow of battle, do some quick back stepping when you see a surge, let them spend their ult - then return the favor and clean up

Derra

WhiteMage wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Moglijuana wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

RinaldoGandolphi wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

If you have no sustain but simply kill every enemy instantly because you fight them 3v10 it hardly matters that you have no sustain.
Especially as your enemies can no longer kite and draw you out as it costs too much resources.

I´m having the same HP basically ~600 difference while missing effectively ~5% dmg from CP, 12% crit, 7000 magica and 23% critdmg. In what world do you (in a small grp of two or three people) kill targets faster than on CP.

I´m doing 50% of my usual dmg on targets that have about 10% less HP than usual. They do not die faster - atleast for me.

So in the end we kill targets slower and run out of resources faster. But stamsorcs are go(o)d there. So i get where you´re coming from

My Magsorc seems to kill about as fast on No-Cp as cp if built correctly. People are squishier(even in Heavy Armor) but you also deal a little less damage so its a trade. People die faster because resource sustain is an issue. I got my Sorc up to 3900 mag recovery after taking a resource under certain conditions and if im not careful i can run dry even with that. it helps a little against poisons, but isn't a silver bullet.

CP is a huge crutch in this game, and outside of PVE the game really isn't designed around it like many people say. They designed the CP system solely for PVE and just included it in PVP. There isn't a single skill in the game that was re-designed for CP. they changed the numbers and such....instead of having 3k health in 1.5 you have 29k health or whatever now.

All the CP system does for PVP is allow everyone to be their own tank, healer, and DPS. it causes massive class imbalances due to thinks like Bastion, increased Crit damage, etc....Every class actually feels balanced without CP. No one is immortal anymore...not everyone is running around as gods in Cyrodiil.


im really hoping they remove CP completely from PVP and give us back the 4k health, mag, and stam they took away from us in 1.5 and hid behind the CP system. They cna then tweak poisons a little bit, and tweak a few armor sets, and we will have a more skill based pvp.

Small scale engagements are much more rewarding with No CP. !vX should be a bit harder, but 2v2 and 3v3 is where no cp really shines.

I had an EPIC 3v3 with a few EP at Blackboot Farm last night....those guys fought really well and that fight could have went either way....but none of us were immortal....the DK couldn't just tape his right mouse button down forever, the two Sorcs(myself and the other one) just couldn't endlessly shield, and the two Templars couldn't just wave their hand once and get back to full health. Even if my 3 man lost that fight, I still would have thought it was was fun, and I would have congrats to the other 3 guys....this is how PVP felt in the 1.0-1.5 iteration of the game...its what got me hooked on PVP in the first place,.


as i said regardless, im staying in Azura...CP is terrible for PVP and thats become really apparent to me now....

And i simply not agree with you - because it´s personal preference.
I hope they keep the option to pvp with and without cp and let people choose how they want to play.

Also i have no idea how you kill as fast as on CP campaign. It´s simply not possible as you can´t make up for the dmg lost.

The reason people are able to kill faster is because people have less resources to be defensive. Yes you lose damage, but players are now susceptible to critical mistakes that allow enemy combos to actually work the first time they hit. No more holding block forever until a pot is up, no more endless shield stacking, no more excessive amount of dodge rolling etc. You mess up, you will die. CP lets you make plenty of mistakes and still stay alive.

If you make a mistake in CP you will die because i deal enough dmg to kill you.

NoCP is a lot more forgiving in that regard.

But hey maybe it´s just NA/EU difference again.

You're doing it wrong.

Or maybe your enemies are not doing it right?

Honestly though what am i doing wrong?
That i can spam dark conversion while also being spammed with crushing shock and the cast still goes through on a 50:50 chance - and if i get interrupted nothing happens because the dmg is too pitiful to be threatening?

cdobratz

Princess_Asgari wrote: »

Having zero CP just makes any issues with classes even more blatantly obvious. You dont have the cp to make up for it. Besides that i HATE that your gear choices are even further limited in no cp.

There are so many sets in this game but with no cp you are forced into using even less of them.

I agree with the sentiment about limiting possible gear sets, but CP is also responsible for cancer builds, but if it helps performance out AND gets rid of the cancer builds I'd take the sacrifice.

RinaldoGandolphi

Princess_Asgari wrote: »

Having zero CP just makes any issues with classes even more blatantly obvious. You dont have the cp to make up for it. Besides that i HATE that your gear choices are even further limited in no cp.

There are so many sets in this game but with no cp you are forced into using even less of them.

Playing Devil's Advocate,

One could argue having all those CP bonuses makes the class issues even worse. The best example being a few Sword and Board Templars in a group...What it takes to kill one of those guys(without Negate) is incredible..they would have to be asleep at the keyboard to die.

why is it these immortal tank Templar healers that nothing short of Negate + Root spam will kill on a CP campaign can be dealt with and killed like anyone else on No-CP?

Because resource management keeps them from being gods. When they get focused on by 2-3 people in a Non-CP campaign they are out of stam to block quickly, and they have to wave their hand 3-4 times with Breath of Life to get back to full health instead of just one cast. Making them mortal and able to be killed.

As i have said, No-CP is far from perfect, but the Champ System needs a complete Overhaul. The percentages need to be reduced by 75%....25% is way too much should be 7%, 16% is way too much should be like 6%.....all these percentages are too high, and you should only be able to invest in say Regen or Cost reduction but not both...if you put points in Stam Regen, then Stam Cost reduction, sneak cost reduction, tumbling, sprint cost reduction, etc should be off limits and not able to put points there.

the CP system has no compromises, you give up nothing, and its worse now that everyone has 600 points. If they were willing to revamp the CP system completely and lower those percentages to reasonable levels and prevent folks from being able to invest in everything id be fine with it. its doubtful however that comes to pass

Moglijuana

geonsocal wrote: »

loved seeing everyone dropping like flies (myself included)...

on ps4/na last night we had some excellent AvAvA action at the aleswell farm (always appreciate AD making the trip north)...probably had somewhere in the range of 60 to 80 players in the area for at least a couple of hours...

it was kinda funny - not sure if it was "planned", but it definitely seems like we were all playing capture the flag...just taking turns at the flag and destroying the tower there...

so nice to see most folks not camping for d-ticks...at one point got 23k for taking the farm...

sure at times it can be hard to visually recognize the destro ult before it kills ya - but, if there is a group of players heading your way - chances are very good they're trying to bring the pain with their "eye of whatever"...

watch the flow of battle, do some quick back stepping when you see a surge, let them spend their ult - then return the favor and clean up

Were you at the Alswell farm last night in that epic 3 way?? haha that was so much fun.