Cyrodiil Performance Test and Double AP Event

Sigtric

@ZOS_BrianWheeler Sounds like a good thing to me. Will spend some time on TF for this to see how it goes!

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

Lol at everyone thinking the world is burning.

@Derra refusing to play during the test because you don't have a perfect little build for no-cp shows how little you care about the health and future of the game.

@Koolio they aren't considering removing cp campaigns. They are considering reworking all of those little cp passives that trigger, for example, a heal every time you're crit. Those create tons of server calculations in large aoe fights. They are turning off cp for the week to test the impact o not having those calculations on the main servers when TF prime time is in full swing. After the test, the stars inflating your stats will likely stay intact. The little passives and actives will likely change. We will see.

Overall, this is a GREAT step forward for pvp, and any serious pvper should welcome this week and play as much pvp as possible during the test. I certainly will.

Also no-cp pvp isn't that bad. Damage, sustain, and survivability feel great imo. It's external factors like poisons, siege, and procs that felt bad. I look forward to actually having to manage resources for a week!!

this move by ZOS. We as the PvP community can only benefit from this.

@ everyone - 100% this ^

Derra

If they´d care about the health of this games pvp they´d look at the abilities empowering loosely stacked grps that do not die.

But that would mean nerfing healing springs - god forbid.

ManDraKE

Derra wrote: »

I´m relying on 58% critchance to heal - which makes thief mandatory. I also loose 12% crit flatout.
I´m using witchmother food providing me with regen.
I have 2x magrec on jewelry enchanted already.

Tell me how should i adjust my build without loosing the ability to heal? By enchanting an extra 169 rec instead of the one spelldmg glyph i have? Really?

But ofc that´s all a nonissue if you´re running in a 20 man grp.

Probably changing mundus and witchmodes for the regular max health+mag regen food is enought. You will loss some healing? ofc, everyone does on non-cp campaing. Just try and see how the build still works, the damage is WAY lower on non-cp.

From what you are saying, i assume you are playing a magsorc with power surge as healing, In the worst case scenario just change your 5 pieces dmg set for something like amberplasm or seducer and done, you don't need to stack dmg to the roof on non-cp.

Wollust

Wouldn't it be possible to deactivate parts of the CP system? Like.. the passives you unlock with certain amounts of points (like unchained, arcane well and stuff)? I imagine those could be more responsible for loads of calculations rather than the simple cost decrease/regen/dmg etc passives?

If you could do that people wouldn't have to change their playing behaviour, which then might lead to better and more significant test results.

No_True_Scotsman

@ZOS_BrianWheeler

Why not just put a whole lot of the character values back on client side, like before the botting/lighting patch in 1.2.x, and add an anti-cheat program?

Seems like it would involve less time spent coding than -- if this experiment proves true -- remaking the entire CP system.

Karivaa

Parafrost wrote: »

Koolio wrote: »

I just spent 2 years getting as much CP as possible to play Pvp. I don't think removing them is a good way to go. Not a good idea.

It is the way to go. It shouldn't have been added in the 1st place.

Not! Why would they even not have cp? Lol many of us worked hard for them!

Soul_Demon

ZOS_BrianWheeler wrote: »

@MyNameIsElias We are aware of that behavior and will be adjusting values of Outposts, Resources and Keeps after the event.

Great, the exploiters actually conned you again. Exploiters were the first to apply this mechanic and abuse it with the only intention of getting the mechanic that threatened the boosting taken away. They had such success with telling you all they were merely roleplaying or 'performing a community service' on their twitch channels when exploiting mechanics and profiting off of them for so long, why not get the only thing that might be able to keep pace with cheats taken away with the same strategy?

Here I thought there was absolutely no way anyone but the forum warrior, twitch groupies would fall for it....ZOS, you have surprised me yet again with a pretty clear way to do damage by failing to really see what happens in your own game.

yamadas

some love to Cyro

Derra

ManDraKE wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

I´m relying on 58% critchance to heal - which makes thief mandatory. I also loose 12% crit flatout.
I´m using witchmother food providing me with regen.
I have 2x magrec on jewelry enchanted already.

Tell me how should i adjust my build without loosing the ability to heal? By enchanting an extra 169 rec instead of the one spelldmg glyph i have? Really?

But ofc that´s all a nonissue if you´re running in a 20 man grp.

Probably changing mundus and witchmodes for the regular max health+mag regen food is enought. You will loss some healing? ofc, everyone does on non-cp campaing. Just try and see how the build still works, the damage is WAY lower on non-cp.

From what you are saying, i assume you are playing a magsorc with power surge as healing, In the worst case scenario just change your 5 pieces dmg set for something like amberplasm or seducer and done, you don't need to stack dmg to the roof on non-cp.

I´ve already played noncp before homestead and all i can reply is:



You have absolutely not the slightest idea what you´re talking about. I don´t even know where to begin.

Ofc i could do a completely new build like you´re suggesting with changing my 5p sets. But that´s the whole point i´m annoyed about no?

Talcyndl

If you ABSOLUTELY RELY on CP for your build to be viable, and they remove CP, you will have to change your build. Pretty much all of us have had to change our builds at some point, in response to some skill/system change or because of new gear and playstyles.

As things stand now, we see a wide variety of viable builds from all classes on Azuras. We also, IMO, see a lot fewer completely broken builds.

Ishammael

DisgracefulMind wrote: »

I'm looking forward to this only specifically because this is the first time I've seen the PvP team take such huge lengths to fix Cyrodiil performance.

With that said, I hope you all at ZoS realize that removing CP completely eventually in PvP is the wrong decision as a permanent "solution". There are players who specifically only PvP, and you would be basically giving them the middle finger. So, no matter what data you gather, I hope you keep CP in. The game + gear + playstyles are now balanced around CP.

When CPs were introduced two years there were endless discussions about how unbalanced characters would be as CP scaled up over time. We are seeing this behavior play out in front of our eyes.

I think that if this experiment confirms that CP is the culprit for Cyro lag, the ZOS team needs to do some serious soul-searching about their intention for the CP system. Bee is correct in the assessment that gear / game / mechanics are "balanced" around CP now. People are emotionally and time-invested in the system.

However, CP is totally boring as a simple percentage of dmg increases or dmg reductions. Maybe a totally re-thought system where CPs are the next level of customization for a character.

Derra

Talcyndl wrote: »

If you ABSOLUTELY RELY on CP for your build to be viable, and they remove CP, you will have to change your build. Pretty much all of us have had to change our builds at some point, in response to some skill/system change or because of new gear and playstyles.

As things stand now, we see a wide variety of viable builds from all classes on Azuras. We also, IMO, see a lot fewer completely broken builds.

Play solo or in a small grp and get poisoned - then come here again and tell me about things not being broken.

Even better: Play a magsorc without pets and duel someone with a shielbreaker bow setup.

Takllin

Ishammael wrote: »

DisgracefulMind wrote: »

I'm looking forward to this only specifically because this is the first time I've seen the PvP team take such huge lengths to fix Cyrodiil performance.

With that said, I hope you all at ZoS realize that removing CP completely eventually in PvP is the wrong decision as a permanent "solution". There are players who specifically only PvP, and you would be basically giving them the middle finger. So, no matter what data you gather, I hope you keep CP in. The game + gear + playstyles are now balanced around CP.

When CPs were introduced two years there were endless discussions about how unbalanced characters would be as CP scaled up over time. We are seeing this behavior play out in front of our eyes.

I think that if this experiment confirms that CP is the culprit for Cyro lag, the ZOS team needs to do some serious soul-searching about their intention for the CP system. Bee is correct in the assessment that gear / game / mechanics are "balanced" around CP now. People are emotionally and time-invested in the system.

However, CP is totally boring as a simple percentage of dmg increases or dmg reductions. Maybe a totally re-thought system where CPs are the next level of customization for a character.

This.

CP should only ever have been customization in the form of more talents/passives such as the 10/20/75/120 instead of % stat increases.

Vanzen

Well ...

A week w/o playing Eso wont be that bad.

Joy_Division

So ... Does this mean we can have 1.5 back if your tests confirm your suspicions?

And the real 1.5 please ... not this half-want-to-be where poisons, sieges, procs, and the game is balanced around a system that should be in the game in the first place.

ManDraKE

Derra wrote: »

ManDraKE wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

I´m relying on 58% critchance to heal - which makes thief mandatory. I also loose 12% crit flatout.
I´m using witchmother food providing me with regen.
I have 2x magrec on jewelry enchanted already.

Tell me how should i adjust my build without loosing the ability to heal? By enchanting an extra 169 rec instead of the one spelldmg glyph i have? Really?

But ofc that´s all a nonissue if you´re running in a 20 man grp.

Probably changing mundus and witchmodes for the regular max health+mag regen food is enought. You will loss some healing? ofc, everyone does on non-cp campaing. Just try and see how the build still works, the damage is WAY lower on non-cp.

From what you are saying, i assume you are playing a magsorc with power surge as healing, In the worst case scenario just change your 5 pieces dmg set for something like amberplasm or seducer and done, you don't need to stack dmg to the roof on non-cp.

I´ve already played noncp before homestead and all i can reply is:



You have absolutely not the slightest idea what you´re talking about. I don´t even know where to begin.

Ofc i could do a completely new build like you´re suggesting with changing my 5p sets. But that´s the whole point i´m annoyed about no?

First of all, i'm getting tired of your actitude, already participated in another threads and your actitude of "i'm better than you just because" is patetic, i probably have 3x times more playtime of noncp than you but i don't need to bridge those commets to make my point valid, so that kind of commets of "you have absolutley no idea", save them [SNIp]

Many players constantly switch from cp to non-cp campains withouth too much trouble, the problem is that you can't see a build past the cp-campain mentality of having super damage + super healing + unlimited resources, in non-cp you have to sacrifice something, simple as that. I'm pretty sure that if you put 30minutes of effort, you can adapt your build a few small changes, [SNIp]

[Edited for inappropriate content]

DisgracefulMind

Ishammael wrote: »

DisgracefulMind wrote: »

I'm looking forward to this only specifically because this is the first time I've seen the PvP team take such huge lengths to fix Cyrodiil performance.

With that said, I hope you all at ZoS realize that removing CP completely eventually in PvP is the wrong decision as a permanent "solution". There are players who specifically only PvP, and you would be basically giving them the middle finger. So, no matter what data you gather, I hope you keep CP in. The game + gear + playstyles are now balanced around CP.

When CPs were introduced two years there were endless discussions about how unbalanced characters would be as CP scaled up over time. We are seeing this behavior play out in front of our eyes.

I think that if this experiment confirms that CP is the culprit for Cyro lag, the ZOS team needs to do some serious soul-searching about their intention for the CP system. Bee is correct in the assessment that gear / game / mechanics are "balanced" around CP now. People are emotionally and time-invested in the system.

However, CP is totally boring as a simple percentage of dmg increases or dmg reductions. Maybe a totally re-thought system where CPs are the next level of customization for a character.

I'm completely with you on this. I know how unbalanced things are, and I would agree completely with a CP system revamp. I'm just saying, overall, the game is so balanced around them, and there has been so much time invested that it would be more hurtful to the player base to just band-aid fix Cyrodiil and remove CP permanently. What we need is for ZoS to actually spend time fixing things. So I really hope they actually fix this time, and don't band-aid.

gard

Koolio wrote: »

I just spent 2 years getting as much CP as possible to play Pvp. I don't think removing them is a good way to go. Not a good idea.

It's for science.

gard

@ZOS_BrianWheeler Will there be a separate test with proc sets disabled?

Alcast

I personally love NO CP. Of course it is not flawless and Battlespirit and especially Poisons might need some adjustments later on. However I actually think people finally NEED TO USE THEIR BRAIN again.

- People actually have to learn to create builds
- No more insane damage and sustain
- Permablock? sure but you aint got no damage no more
- People will actually die. No joke.

ManDraKE

Alcast wrote: »

I personally love NO CP. Of course it is not flawless and Battlespirit and especially Poisons might need some adjustments later on. However I actually think people finally NEED TO USE THEIR BRAIN again.

- People actually have to learn to create builds
- No more insane damage and sustain
- Permablock? sure but you aint got no damage no more
- People will actually die. No joke.

Made a build video for non-cp campaing, seems like @Derra is needing one LOL

BllyDnsr

So @ZOS_BrianWheeler , is this for PC only or are you guys doing this across the board and actually including consoles? Nevermind. Saw the "across all platforms" in your post.

Derra

ManDraKE wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

ManDraKE wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

I´m relying on 58% critchance to heal - which makes thief mandatory. I also loose 12% crit flatout.
I´m using witchmother food providing me with regen.
I have 2x magrec on jewelry enchanted already.

Tell me how should i adjust my build without loosing the ability to heal? By enchanting an extra 169 rec instead of the one spelldmg glyph i have? Really?

But ofc that´s all a nonissue if you´re running in a 20 man grp.

Probably changing mundus and witchmodes for the regular max health+mag regen food is enought. You will loss some healing? ofc, everyone does on non-cp campaing. Just try and see how the build still works, the damage is WAY lower on non-cp.

From what you are saying, i assume you are playing a magsorc with power surge as healing, In the worst case scenario just change your 5 pieces dmg set for something like amberplasm or seducer and done, you don't need to stack dmg to the roof on non-cp.

I´ve already played noncp before homestead and all i can reply is:



You have absolutely not the slightest idea what you´re talking about. I don´t even know where to begin.

Ofc i could do a completely new build like you´re suggesting with changing my 5p sets. But that´s the whole point i´m annoyed about no?

First of all, i'm getting tired of your actitude, already participated in another threads and your actitude of "i'm better than you just because" is patetic, i probably have 3x times more playtime of noncp than you but i don't need to bridge those commets to make my point valid, so that kind of commets of "you have absolutley no idea", save them, this is a discussion, not a D measuring contest.

Many players constantly switch from cp to non-cp campains withouth too much trouble, the problem is that you can't see a build past the cp-campain mentality of having super damage + super healing + unlimited resources, in non-cp you have to sacrifice something, simple as that. I'm pretty sure that if you put 30minutes of effort, you can adapt your build a few small changes, but well, keep crying like a baby instead, that will take you far.

I actually don´t have any "i´m better than you attitude".

I´m simply suprised that you´re convinced you´re competent to give advice on a build you have absolutely no insight to.
Isn´t that much more sign of some sort of superiority complex than telling people they´re giving bad advice because they don´t have the facts?
In my opinion it is.

I have spent hours of thinking how to make my CPbuilds also work for nonCP (making it short - they don´t workt there because you can´t make adjustments suggested).

You probably have played 10x more on the nonCP campaign. That does not make you an expert on my build or how to adapt it. And telling me it´s merely a 30 min effort just dismisses the point i made (that it can´t be easily adapted and i basically need to create a new build for one week) entirely.

So who´s really being rude here by dismissing concerns based on facts he does not have access to?

Domander

ZOS_BrianWheeler wrote: »

@MyNameIsElias We are aware of that behavior and will be adjusting values of Outposts, Resources and Keeps after the event.

Adjusted to what? I like that taking resources and other objectives doesn't feel like a waste of time now.

Derra

ManDraKE wrote: »

Alcast wrote: »

I personally love NO CP. Of course it is not flawless and Battlespirit and especially Poisons might need some adjustments later on. However I actually think people finally NEED TO USE THEIR BRAIN again.

- People actually have to learn to create builds
- No more insane damage and sustain
- Permablock? sure but you aint got no damage no more
- People will actually die. No joke.

Made a build video for non-cp campaing, seems like @Derra is needing one LOL

As i said. It´s not me that´s being rude eh

Edit: Also you seem to be a little slow in terms of understanding (now i´m being rude btw) - creating (as you´ve highlighted yourself) a build is exactly what i find annoying for one week of testing.

Ixtyr

Props to the team for finally doing major tests like this in the Live environment. Fixing Cyrodiil needs to be a priority and I'm happy about this.

That said, I do hope that the solution isn't to remove CP altogether. Rework the system perhaps, but it does leave a somewhat sour taste in my mouth to be unable to reap any benefits from my characters' progression. I enjoy Azura's Star enough, but I'm not sure that's the ideal fix.

Plus, if ZOS has to start balancing PvE for a CP600 cap and PvP for zero CPs, that could become an absolutely hellish situation for both parties. The game is too focused around the system now, so tweaking passives and adjusting the entire progression philosophy would have to be in order to keep it around. And regardless of the outcome, a bunch of people are going to be unhappy about it. Meh. Quite the predicament.

Regardless, happy about this test. Kudos.

Rohamad_Ali

I can already tell you the results of the testing . It's going to improved performance . You know what else would give better performance ? Removing all those proc suits . The server has to calculate all those in a battle too .

For me , I'm excited but ... I've been grinding cp to max for a second time on a new account and I'm almost there ! I was going this to be more relevant in PVP . Guess I'll have to get over myself for the greater good ...

You told me you were doing something more radical to fix PVP . You weren't kidding . Well done @ZOS_BrianWheeler . Bravo . This is exciting news .

Subversus

Majeure wrote: »

So effectively as an Azura's Star player, I get double AP for a week with nothing else changing? Good stuff, time to hit that server on the daily.

Lui marco reference?

Domander

bikerangelo wrote: »

Now everyone gets to feel how imbalanced poisons and siege are without CP.

Players just stand in siege when they have champion points, if anything it is more balanced without.

steussy

ZOS_BrianWheeler wrote: »

Hey gang!

As you saw in Matt’s 2017 roadmap, we are making Cyrodiil performance evaluation and fixing a priority this year. We want to make sure that Cyrodiil is a great PvP experience for everyone. Over the last year, we’ve made some good strides towards refining server performance across all campaigns, and we will continue down that path.

When looking into Cyrodiil issues, we definitely see (both in-game and through monitoring) situations where client and server performance degrade significantly when under high load. The small incremental changes we’ve made over the last year have helped, but they alone are not enough. So, we’re going to change our strategy a bit – which is the point of this post.

Simply put, Azura’s Star (the non-Champion Point campaign) runs much better, more efficiently, and is overall a much better PvP experience than the standard campaigns such as Trueflame or Haderus. Now that we’ve had a significant population density in Azura’s Star, we strongly suspect what has been theorized for a long time: Champion Rank passives and abilities are causing too much server load, especially in situations like Keep battles where there are tons of players in one place.

Because of this, we are going to run a series of PvP performance tests, and because it is impossible to simulate PvP load on our internal test servers (or on PTS), we will do this on all live servers on the dates of February 27 – March 6. This is not something we take lightly, and it is important that we evaluate performance when the server is under real-world load situations.

Our first test will be set up as follows:

• For a period of one week, all Champion Points will be disabled on all Campaigns on all platforms and megaservers
• During this time, AP gains in all Campaigns will be doubled, both to compensate for lack of CP and also to incentivize players to PvP so we can record as much data as possible
• Campaign durations and leaderboards will not be adjusted during this week

We encourage all players to continue their PvP activities in their respective Home, Guest, and Friends campaigns – we will be taking feedback and monitoring data on a daily basis during this test, and look forward to reading your constructive posts about server performance during the time of the test.

The results of this test will determine the next course of action for refining Cyrodiil server performance. Thank you for your perseverance and patience – we thoroughly appreciate your time, efforts, and feedback!

Thanks again, and see you in Cyrodiil!

-Wheeler

Wow,

I don't see anything here that states they are considering permanently dropping CP from all campaigns. Please take the time to actually comprehend his post and not jump to any conclusions.