Can't kill anybody anymore..

Biro123

Not since homestead.

Why? what's going on? Seems like everyone is either a tank or a tank with a healbot

I mean, I've been experimenting a lot with builds and keep messing up when trying to use them - but I've tried some fairly extreme burst setups lately (50k mag/3.4k spell dmg empowered frags etc..but with no sustain to get that..) and the best I can do to most ppl is take down 1/4 of their health - which then instantly heals back up.. Then they turn around and drop your shields quicker than you can spam them..

Is it the CP cap change?

There are a million DK's out there - is it something to do with them? Do I give up on dealing damage and join with the tank meta? Or is there anything else I can do to make a dent instead?

At least before the patch, those that I couldn't hurt, couldn't hurt me either.. And those that could hurt me - I could hurt them too. But now? something feels messed up but I don't know what it is.

NightbladeMechanics

What class are you, are you magicka or stamina, and do you notice trouble killing particular other classes, or are you experiencing general frustration?

BuggeX

he is mag sorc, should be clear on his post. :P

Minalan

Mag DK healing is pretty wicked now. On top of that they wear heavy armor, and have the skills to synergize with it perfectly.

My only advice is to keep mage wrath on them ahead of your burst, so they explode before they can hit their little OP heal button. No more healing to full!

As a mag sorc you also need stamina regeneration this patch. I can literally stale mate any MagDK with 1200-1300 stamina regen and 12K stam. Bring Magicka poisons, because MagDK can't sustain the kind of ridiculous Magicka costs they have with a 60% poison on them.

Lastly, bring spinner set and have some points in erosion, they're tanky as hell, but with light armor, spinner, erosion, elemental drain, and a sharpened weapon you should be killing off 20K worth of spell resist (hint: most will still have 15K or more after that).

Sorc has the tools to deal with MDK, the question is do you have the talent?

Biro123

Minalan wrote: »

Mag DK healing is pretty wicked now. On top of that they wear heavy armor, and have the skills to synergize with it perfectly.

My only advice is to keep mage wrath on them ahead of your burst, so they explode before they can hit their little OP heal button. No more healing to full!

As a mag sorc you also need stamina regeneration this patch. I can literally stale mate any MagDK with 1200-1300 stamina regen and 12K stam. Bring Magicka poisons, because MagDK can't sustain the kind of ridiculous Magicka costs they have with a 60% poison on them.

Lastly, bring spinner set and have some points in erosion, they're tanky as hell, but with light armor, spinner, erosion, elemental drain, and a sharpened weapon you should be killing off 20K worth of spell resist (hint: most will still have 15K or more after that).

Sorc has the tools to deal with MDK, the question is do you have the talent?

Its more stamDK's to be honest.. There just seems to be more of them - and they're all just tougher.. As a result I tried switching to heavy armour and tri-food - for 16k stam and constitution passive to recover it(since u only need it when getting hit).. so I've been putting it down to the loss in pen and crit from that.. To be honest it still should have been fine for dishing out damage but every single fight took just soo long I got bored and started messing up. So I recently switched back to a much harder hitting setup to see if it was the heavy and still wasn't making any dents in people. The fights were all long and drawn out and ended with me out of resources.

I'm not gonna get Amberplasm. I've only done that dung once and didn't really enjoy it - and i'm really bored of farming.. And theres no way I can afford to buy sharpened spinners weapons.. and lets face it without the sharpened weapon, spinners is no good. I'm not really keen on it anyway - there are still a lot of dmg-shield users out there and I don't like using stuff that's totally negated vs some enemies.

But perhaps that's it.. the need for more stam and regen has meant diverting stats from dmg to do it.. idk.. just feels like I'm playing a burst class who's burst is now no worse than other's anytimes.

Minalan

There are stam regen glyphs and monster set pieces with stamina regen, and you can still use any regen set just fine. Prismatic glyphs will raise stamina without equipping more heavy pieces.

Spinner set is great, it's like having elemental drain up permanently and it pairs fine with Lich or seducer (with seducer sharpened staff).

Even against other shield stackers it helps, because every hit over/past their shield amount will crit with 100% penetration. An enemy sorc will still have 15-20K spell resist.

Publius_Scipio

Magicka templar and DK are now where many players are going to be doing their pvp killing from. I personally consider magicka templar somewhat of an easy mode compared to the other classes (at least before Homestead for sure).

Laggus

Shields are out of control.

thankyourat

Lol stam dk is ridiculous I hate fighting them. Honestly I don't know if anyone has found something different but stam dk doesn't seem to have any counters. Great damage, great healing, great defense. I would say just destro ulti them and try to land your frag, curse,wrath combo in the ultimate. That'll usually finish him. as someone said earlier use spinner set it's pretty much best in slot in cyrodiil right now for magicka builds. To kill a good stam dk you are going to have to have a lot of burst damage and make sure you are setting up your combos.

Minalan

Laggus wrote: »

Shields are out of control.

Like MDK CC isn't. The roots lasts longer than *** shields.

If I can't move 99% of the time, then at least I'm not taking any of your damage.

Iyas

A Magicka Sorc complaining about Dmg? Wow..

Biro123

Minalan wrote: »

There are stam regen glyphs and monster set pieces with stamina regen, and you can still use any regen set just fine. Prismatic glyphs will raise stamina without equipping more heavy pieces.

Spinner set is great, it's like having elemental drain up permanently and it pairs fine with Lich or seducer (with seducer sharpened staff).

Even against other shield stackers it helps, because every hit over/past their shield amount will crit with 100% penetration. An enemy sorc will still have 15-20K spell resist.

hm, ok - spinners it is then.. its a shame - I dumped most of my spinners stuff only the other week thinking 'I'll never use it now'.. bleh.. I normally hoard everything!
I think I've come up with something that can incorporate spinners, a monster set and not need a sharpened spinners staff.. will see how it goes when I get the gear. It'll be nice to drop the pet again too.

Derra

All i can say is from my personal experience:

Magsorc burst won´t work against competent players - you have to be able to sustaindps them.

Open world builds won´t win against dueling (aka zerg) builds on an even skilllevel - simply because they can pack all the things useful 1v1 into a builds without having to worry about things that are required for well rounded builds.

You have to ignore pure tank builds. You can´t break them.

Don´t use heavy armor on a sorc. You need crit and penetration to actually kill stuff.

Don´t be a vamp (it´s not DKs that kill you - it´s templars).

Biro123

Derra wrote: »

All i can say is from my personal experience:

Magsorc burst won´t work against competent players - you have to be able to sustaindps them.

Open world builds won´t win against dueling (aka zerg) builds on an even skilllevel - simply because they can pack all the things useful 1v1 into a builds without having to worry about things that are required for well rounded builds.

You have to ignore pure tank builds. You can´t break them.

Don´t use heavy armor on a sorc. You need crit and penetration to actually kill stuff.

Don´t be a vamp (it´s not DKs that kill you - it´s templars).

I'm starting to think that's key too... I've only recently been trying heavy for the stam recov for more break-free's and the odd dodge-roll as part of my ideas around 'protecting' the shields. On their own, the crit loss or pen loss doesn't seem too bad.. but I think together it adds up - significantly. The setup used necropotence/pets to keep mag high enough for decent shields and dmg and left no room to slot ele drain to make up for that loss in pen - definitely not with magelight too for the crit/mag..

BuggeX

Derra wrote: »

All i can say is from my personal experience:

Magsorc burst won´t work against competent players - you have to be able to sustaindps them.

Open world builds won´t win against dueling (aka zerg) builds on an even skilllevel - simply because they can pack all the things useful 1v1 into a builds without having to worry about things that are required for well rounded builds.

You have to ignore pure tank builds. You can´t break them.

Don´t use heavy armor on a sorc. You need crit and penetration to actually kill stuff.

Don´t be a vamp (it´s not DKs that kill you - it´s templars).

a single templar should not be able to proc light on full dmg
a dk has the possibility to burst with Shooting star - lash and foz Combo right between the shilds run out and the sorc recast them, if a sorc feel safe and try to kill the low hp dk ist most likely that he doesnt take care of them.

a decent sorc should never forgot to recast shilds


and well stam dks are gods, you wont touch them while they crit rush a whole zerg down

and the problem you cant kill them is cause sorcs doesnt have Major defile

Joy_Division

It's been this way for quite a while. It's just easier now to make a surivable build with the ease of mix and match sets since the 1 Tamriel release. Every class and spec has the tools to be tanky and robust even without being a tank.

For sorc, I think the people who say to stack magicka have it right.

Biro123

Joy_Division wrote: »

It's been this way for quite a while. It's just easier now to make a surivable build with the ease of mix and match sets since the 1 Tamriel release. Every class and spec has the tools to be tanky and robust even without being a tank.

For sorc, I think the people who say to stack magicka have it right.

It has in what builds can achieve.. just seems since homestead, the proportion of tanks in Cyro has rocketed.. idk.. it just feels like 60% are now tanks and the other 40% are stood behind healing them..

Yuke

Use a destro fire staff. Damage gain is equivalent to two spelldamage glyphs + you can weave in a HA for 6-8k dmg. mSorc is digustingly OP rightnow (even more than it was over the last couple of months).

And just LOL to the guy saying sDKs are gods who can critcharge down zergs. Critcharge doesnt even connect with the Enemy 75% of the times you use it.

So many l2p issues here that my head is close to exploding and no, sorry, i cant say it with less harsh words.

NightbladeMechanics

Laggus wrote: »

Stealth mechanics are out of control.

Ftfy

frozywozy

The main problem is the champion points system. Everytime the cap increase, we just make juggernauts even stronger. CPs should be all about utility, not damage, defense and sustain. Also, healing should scale off a different stat than wd/sd.

Minno

frozywozy wrote: »

The main problem is the champion points system. Everytime the cap increase, we just make juggernauts even stronger. CPs should be all about utility, not damage, defense and sustain. Also, healing should scale off a different stat than wd/sd.

This. Dmg+heals should be actively buffed (empower, mage tree, etc.), not passively via CP.

timidobserver

A lot of the DPS oriented Templar probably swapped to reactive trollheal builds after the nerfs. That and the influx of DKs could explain the larger than normal amount of tank builds. The existence of reactive and blackrose jewelry and weapons might also contribute.

LegendaryChef

17k procd frags.
10k+ stacking curses from multiple players is all I have to say.

HeroOfNone

You'll probably need to partner with someone using reverberating bash & fasalla's guile to deal with most of the heal builds out there. The good thing is though that most players get over confident with their self heals that they don't notice the debuff till its too late.

Etaniel

Biro123 wrote: »

Not since homestead.

Why? what's going on? Seems like everyone is either a tank or a tank with a healbot

I mean, I've been experimenting a lot with builds and keep messing up when trying to use them - but I've tried some fairly extreme burst setups lately (50k mag/3.4k spell dmg empowered frags etc..but with no sustain to get that..) and the best I can do to most ppl is take down 1/4 of their health - which then instantly heals back up.. Then they turn around and drop your shields quicker than you can spam them..

Is it the CP cap change?

There are a million DK's out there - is it something to do with them? Do I give up on dealing damage and join with the tank meta? Or is there anything else I can do to make a dent instead?

At least before the patch, those that I couldn't hurt, couldn't hurt me either.. And those that could hurt me - I could hurt them too. But now? something feels messed up but I don't know what it is.

Don't know in what world you live in that you can't kill stuff with that much fire power

Biro123

LegendaryChef wrote: »

17k procd frags.
10k+ stacking curses from multiple players is all I have to say.

I wish... I've never had a frag hit for more than 14k before - but they used to be close to that and fairly regularly. Nowadays I'm lucky to hit 8k. More often they're sub 2k(blocked). Finding that one squshy in the sea of tanks isn't so easy nowadays..

Biro123

Etaniel wrote: »

Biro123 wrote: »

Not since homestead.

Why? what's going on? Seems like everyone is either a tank or a tank with a healbot

I mean, I've been experimenting a lot with builds and keep messing up when trying to use them - but I've tried some fairly extreme burst setups lately (50k mag/3.4k spell dmg empowered frags etc..but with no sustain to get that..) and the best I can do to most ppl is take down 1/4 of their health - which then instantly heals back up.. Then they turn around and drop your shields quicker than you can spam them..

Is it the CP cap change?

There are a million DK's out there - is it something to do with them? Do I give up on dealing damage and join with the tank meta? Or is there anything else I can do to make a dent instead?

At least before the patch, those that I couldn't hurt, couldn't hurt me either.. And those that could hurt me - I could hurt them too. But now? something feels messed up but I don't know what it is.

Don't know in what world you live in that you can't kill stuff with that much fire power

That'll be the one with no sustain where you can't afford to proactively keep shields stacked long enough to stay in range of enemies long enough to do your burst rotation on enough players to find that rare non-tank that you can make a mess of. I only tried that for an hour or so to try to figure out if I just needed to up the dmg even more.. The sustain issues, and deaths because of it made it seriously not worthwhile. I mean yeah, I did score the odd kill with it but I had no confidence whatsoever survival-wise that I could do anything than hide behind allies - which usually only left me in range to hit their tanks...

caeliusstarbreaker

Don't you have an ability that can't be blocked, certain armor passives that increase penetration and a set that increases penetration even more that is able to be bought at guild stores?

caeliusstarbreaker

It's also almost like its a class that by weapon choice, their main spammable was taken of the reflect roster and they can equip a staff that's heavy attack isn't dodgeable, all the while negating enemy crit due to their active defense, with an ultimate that gives them something to LoS in the middle of a field, with a direct melee counter skill and the best mobility in the game...

I dunno..... What to do... What to do....

Biro123

caeliusstarbreaker wrote: »

It's also almost like its a class that by weapon choice, their main spammable was taken of the reflect roster and they can equip a staff that's heavy attack isn't dodgeable, all the while negating enemy crit due to their active defense, with an ultimate that gives them something to LoS in the middle of a field, with a direct melee counter skill and the best mobility in the game...

I dunno..... What to do... What to do....

ooh, I don't know where to start....

Main spammable not reflected... Reflect isn't the problem. never was with this skill. It still gets dodged/blocked and it still does poor dmg. Nobody is gonna kill a semi-competent tankiy build by spamming CS.

Lightning heavy attacks.. the ones whereby equipping instead of fire means all your single target burs effectively has a 8% dmg nerf.. Lightning heavy attacks which are weaker than resto heavy attacks,,, and you cannot weave them either. Nobody is gonna kill a semi-competent tankiy build by spamming lightning heavy attacks.

Shields - another topic - I'm not gonna go there - but defence isn't the problem here..

Mines? too easily counterd nowadays.. everyone either just walks straight over them holding block or just mist-froms over them. Hardly worth a slot now.

Mobility.. If only. Maybe once upon a time. Maybe if I drop pets I could fit boundless AND streak on my bars.. but would lose my only burst heal, and about 5k magicka.. Streak on its own?? lol - doesn't get you out of gap-close range, forces a 'pause' after streaking. Also is bugged and doesn't work half the time, leaving you CC'd - not to mention increased cost for spamming it.. Boundless on its own? 5 seconds of major expedition.. That alone doesn't exactly give you the best mobility in game.. especially when you have no stam to sprint with.. Now any stam build with a bow .. that's a million times better mobility - and doesn't even take up any skill-slots...

Ishammael

mSorc is basically hard counter to mDK. Your combat tools should make this an un-loseable fight.

Of course, no SINGLE thing will win the fight. However, you have an unblockable DoT, unreflectable Spam, the best defense, superior mobility, and the best ultimate.

Granted, if the mDK player is competent you won't win on the first burst, or maybe even the third. But you have a yuge sustain and defense advantage.