What is this? Botting, cheating, "legitimate" behaviour?

SunTzuJJ_ESO

XDragonDoomX wrote: »

SunTzuJJ_ESO wrote: »

I typically leave my toon at the dolmen to wait. When it starts, I throw out a few silver bolts to get credit, and then go back to whatever I am doing on another screen or device. Maybe even reading a book or cleaning. To the casual observer, it could look like botting certainly. But it isn't. Multi tasking is not wrong, it's a human feature.

Per our Terms of Service, this is the definition of botting and automated play:


Utilizing automation for your character is a violation of our Terms of Service. This is defined as taking action on your character, without human input, to further advance your progress in the game. Which is considered botting.

You must be actively controlling your character

seems it is wrong, from the definition posted by @ZOS_GinaBruno

Then per your puritanical standard, anyone that goes afk should be banned. Good luck with that.

XDragonDoomX

SunTzuJJ_ESO wrote: »

XDragonDoomX wrote: »

SunTzuJJ_ESO wrote: »

I typically leave my toon at the dolmen to wait. When it starts, I throw out a few silver bolts to get credit, and then go back to whatever I am doing on another screen or device. Maybe even reading a book or cleaning. To the casual observer, it could look like botting certainly. But it isn't. Multi tasking is not wrong, it's a human feature.

Per our Terms of Service, this is the definition of botting and automated play:


Utilizing automation for your character is a violation of our Terms of Service. This is defined as taking action on your character, without human input, to further advance your progress in the game. Which is considered botting.

You must be actively controlling your character

seems it is wrong, from the definition posted by @ZOS_GinaBruno

Then per your puritanical standard, anyone that goes afk should be banned. Good luck with that.

Well, tell you what. Since you've been good enough to write up a confession, no naming & shaming involved, I'll let ZoS review it since it's their game & their decision.

SunTzuJJ_ESO

I admit it. I go afk. And when I come back, I actively use my character. You got me. So shamed.

SydneyGrey

lordrichter wrote: »

The lazy people are not going to bother with whispers. It's more work to whisper to someone. The people who send whispers are the ones who already think you are a bot, and if you are not acting like a bot, they have no reason to send you a whisper.

Not really. It takes time to sit there and observe the person for 10 minutes, or even 5, and it takes away from their game play. Some people would rather try the chat first, because it's faster for them and therefore they can get back to their game faster. Of course, if they do that, then they might end up reporting someone who doesn't deserve to be reported. To me, this is lazy. If they're going to report someone, they need to take the time to actually spend 5-to-10 minutes observing first. If they don't, they're just lazy and irresponsible, and need to mind their own business.

If they observe for a while, and the toon STILL acts like a bot, then it's probably a bot and should be reported. I am 100% in favor of reporting any bots. Real bots are pretty obvious. My whole point was that people shouldn't assume that not talking back in chat = bot, if that's the only criteria you're using to determine botness (botdom?).

Tuxi

I am only a recent arrival to ESO... I have reported several of these type folk, but there are always a good number about.... GMs know where they are, taking a pop in now and again and leveling whatever the punishment is shouldn't be so hard.

SunTzuJJ_ESO

If only there was a punishment for false reporting.

gard

STEVIL wrote: »

Preyfar wrote: »

STEVIL wrote: »

So if i have nothing to hide i should not fear the witch hunters?

thats so reassuring.

In such cases where you can't tell visually the GMs should be attempting to message you. If a player fails to respond within X amount of time or after Y messages then you take action. Witch Hunters shouldn't be feared so long as you are legitimately at the game playing it. But if you're automating it and walking away... that's another story.

All in all sounds like i stop running dolmen quests.

All in all, sounds like a cry for attention. Do whatever floats your boat.

JasonSilverSpring

SunTzuJJ_ESO wrote: »

If only there was a punishment for false reporting.

It is not like ZOS simply takes action based on reports without investigating. And I am sure that if they found that someone maliciously reported someone they would take action. Punishing someone for reporting that made an honest mistake would be very bad.

Elsonso

SunTzuJJ_ESO wrote: »

I typically leave my toon at the dolmen to wait. When it starts, I throw out a few silver bolts to get credit, and then go back to whatever I am doing on another screen or device. Maybe even reading a book or cleaning. To the casual observer, it could look like botting certainly. But it isn't. Multi tasking is not wrong, it's a human feature.

Nothing in the ToS says you have to be at the keyboard (controller) at every instant that you are logged into the game. AFK is a thing. Your character should be doing nothing but idling while you are AFK, and should never do anything without you actually pressing a button to do it.

I suggest that you might be better off just logging out of the game when you don't have time to actively play, though.

SunTzuJJ_ESO wrote: »

Second, Windows has a built in function called "Click Lock" for your mouse. Everyone on Windows has it. ITS A FEATURE. It's as much a third party automation program AS YOUR ENTIRE OS IS. If ZOS wants to stop the heavy staff spammers, make the staff heavy attack like the bow. Done.

Feature or not, it is against the ToS to use it. Lots of things that can be done end up being against the rules. We would not need rules if this were not the case. The whole point is that you follow the rules, not what can be done.

Yes, ZOS can make the heavy attack so that click lock (rubber banding, brick on keyboard, etc) won't work. The can make it so you have to pass a CAPTCHA each time you use your weapon. They should not have to do this. Instead, they should just ban, or suspend, the people who do it.

SunTzuJJ_ESO wrote: »

The problem with reporting all the people on those rocks, is you just don't know. And because you don't know all the facts, you can't make a fair and accurate decision.

The players are not banning or suspending anyone. That is all on ZOS. If someone thinks another player is botting, and they are so inclined to report that person, then they should report them. We cannot expect that the players are experts in bot detection, nor should we expect that players should always be right when they do report someone. That is for ZOS to decide.

One tactic that botters can use to help diffuse the situation is to get a lot of normal people (not botters) to crowd around them while they bot. It makes it harder to target the bot character, and dilutes the reporting.

My suggestion is to simply stop botting, if doing it, and stay away from those that do, if not.

SydneyGrey wrote: »

lordrichter wrote: »

The lazy people are not going to bother with whispers. It's more work to whisper to someone. The people who send whispers are the ones who already think you are a bot, and if you are not acting like a bot, they have no reason to send you a whisper.

Not really. It takes time to sit there and observe the person for 10 minutes, or even 5, and it takes away from their game play.

I get where you are coming from, but dolmens are easy pickings for people who report bots. There is no need to waste 10 minutes, or even 5 minutes, watching them. These easy-to-report bots are just standing there firing a staff every second, or so, when nothing is happening. (If this describes anyone reading this, and you are not wanting to be reported as a bot, then stop doing it.)

When you are at a dolmen, pretty much anyone who is attacking a single spot, repeatedly, when there is nothing there to attack, deserves to be reported for botting. Running around spamming abilities? Not the same thing. Standing there doing nothing(AFK)? Not the same thing. Constantly firing at the same spot, when there is nothing there, is the low hanging fruit, and those are the people that are going to get reported first, even if they respond to whispers.

Krileon

Maybe instead of whining about what this is and is not we should address why people are doing this. Leveling is BORING. ZoS is also constantly killing grind spots. Some people are tired of doing the 10 trillion quests in this game for umpteenth time. Stop nerfing grind spots. In fact add grind spots. Reduce the exp for dolmens. Then reduce the exp curve. This issue should then go away.

Jim_Pipp

@ZOS_JessicaFolsom thanks for your post on this thread, it did give a definite answer on the botting.

While not about botting, your message made me think of an add-on called Dolgubon's Lazy Writ crafter which I was planning to install. It makes doing crafting writs much simpler by automatically selecting the materials you need to complete your current writs. Before I install it I wondered if you can tell me if that automation violates the TOS? Thanks.

KimberlyannKitsuragi

Jim_Pipp wrote: »

@ZOS_JessicaFolsom thanks for your post on this thread, it did give a definite answer on the botting.

While not about botting, your message made me think of an add-on called Dolgubon's Lazy Writ crafter which I was planning to install. It makes doing crafting writs much simpler by automatically selecting the materials you need to complete your current writs. Before I install it I wondered if you can tell me if that automation violates the TOS? Thanks.

*whispers* I have the same addon

That being said, I would hazard a guess that it's not violating the TOS because you have to walk up to the station and press E to use it. It's not like the addon knows you're in front of a station, presses E to use then does its thing. That's my understanding *crosses fingers*

Fleshreaper

Eremith wrote: »

They are not bots! And it's not a macros-using!
How can you say so?
It's just a brick accidentially stuck on the controller's 'fire' button.

Ankael07 wrote: »

One thing I want to make it clear is that there is no difference between botting with another program or just holding down a button on your keyboard/gamepad with a rubberband or something. Botting isnt about technology.

Botting is about robots. Brick on the button is not a robot. ))

That's not correct. The term "botting" is used for ANY method in which the player tries to automate ANY game play feature.

Mitoice

Its called Rubberbanding and its not illegal under TOS of ESO. It consists of actually putting a rubberband on the xbox controller or PS4 that keeps the right trigger pressed down to do a heavy attack.

Mitoice

What we need is someone from ZOS to confirm if rubberbanding is considered illegal under their rules... I personally think its dumb to do it but on Alik Desert there are hundreds of players doing it, I doubt ZOS will ban them, so the question is, is this practice permitted?

@ZOS_GinaBruno can u please tell us if this is right?
Cause when the new class comes in if this is legal... Expect to see everyone, myself including doing this to get experience while working.

Alarra

Mitoice wrote: »

Its called Rubberbanding and its not illegal under TOS of ESO. It consists of actually putting a rubberband on the xbox controller or PS4 that keeps the right trigger pressed down to do a heavy attack.

Mitoice wrote: »

What we need is someone from ZOS to confirm if rubberbanding is considered illegal under their rules... I personally think its dumb to do it but on Alik Desert there are hundreds of players doing it, I doubt ZOS will ban them, so the question is, is this practice permitted?

@ZOS_GinaBruno can u please tell us if this is right?
Cause when the new class comes in if this is legal... Expect to see everyone, myself including doing this to get experience while working.

Jessica said this on the last page:

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

Recently, some of you have asked if it’s okay to put tape or a rubber band on your controller. The short answer is “No.” Automating your character in any way, including placing tape or a rubber-band on a console controller, is considered a violation of our Terms of Service, and action may be taken on your account. You must be actively controlling your character.

MasterSpatula

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

We also do other secret things.

See, now I'm intrigued!

NeuroAutonomy

MissBizz wrote: »

Thanks for the info Jessica... I seriously never even considered including the time, as I figured the report would be time stamped, as well I never included the megaserver. Really thought that would already be included. Thanks for the heads up!

@MissBizz Right? I always thought it was timestamped too. Now I'm curious about what ZoS actually has when you file a report, do they have recordings of area chat to look through? The whispers between the players? Should we be recording videos everytime there are offences?

Elsonso

MasterSpatula wrote: »

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

We also do other secret things.

See, now I'm intrigued!

They play ToS Bingo. Each time they suspend or ban someone, they get to put a marker on the ToS violation. First one to get a Bingo, gets a prize.

bulbousb16_ESO

I'm less concerned about the players that are stationary with their attack button held down, then I am about the mudcrab-farming bots that run a pre-programmed circuit.

You don't even have to try and chat these users, you can see they run the exact same pattern, pivoting/stopping on the exact same pixel every circuit, in perfect sync, for hours on end - day after day.

SunTzuJJ_ESO

bulbousb16_ESO wrote: »

I'm less concerned about the players that are stationary with their attack button held down, then I am about the mudcrab-farming bots that run a pre-programmed circuit.

You don't even have to try and chat these users, you can see they run the exact same pattern, pivoting/stopping on the exact same pixel every circuit, in perfect sync, for hours on end - day after day.

Exactly the right answer.

altemriel

report those ***!!

howdawut

Make reporting bots great again: When a confirmed botter is banned, the first person that reported it gets all their stuff.

DaveMoeDee

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

@Seraphayel Were you able to report this group? If so, could you pass along your ticket number please?

I reported 4 of like 20 in one spot yesterday or the day before.

170301-003818
170301-003816
170301-003813
170301-003807

Today I managed to lead dolmen mobs up on the rock 2 bots were on. Dead. Should get rewards for that. Lots of fun though!

Gonna go for another kill...

DaveMoeDee

Btw, the key is DK chains.

SunTzuJJ_ESO

FYI, i heal the bots at dolmen just for you guys.

Ankael07

Dont know if anyone mentioned this but bots walk around in groups and 2 pets enabled. That makes them really hard to just walk by and use the interaction menu. What you guys need is some sort of communication between mods who read reports (if there are different people reading different type of reports). If Im reporting a bot under ''cheating'' section it should be enough.Sometimes the same bot stands there for weeks,months even though people report it in forums.

baratron

SunTzuJJ_ESO wrote: »

Second, Windows has a built in function called "Click Lock" for your mouse. Everyone on Windows has it. ITS A FEATURE. It's as much a third party automation program AS YOUR ENTIRE OS IS. If ZOS wants to stop the heavy staff spammers, make the staff heavy attack like the bow. Done.

Oh gods, please don't! I have been playing since beta and I literally cannot figure out how to weave on a Bow. People have tried to explain it to me and I think my hands are too stupid to learn. With a staff, I hold down the heavy attack constantly and hit my other attacks as I do so. On a Bow, I can't do this because the bow doesn't auto-release the attack ever, so I am permanently out of Stamina unless I quaff potions constantly or have a Templar casting Repentance.

I am fine with never playing my Stamina Nightblade because I suck at DPS, but I really don't want to be unable to play my five - soon to be six - Healers!

baron.kreighteb17_ESO

Seems to me this is still a thing. I often see people doing this in Auridon and Alrik.

Chilly-McFreeze

lordrichter wrote: »

SunTzuJJ_ESO wrote: »

I typically leave my toon at the dolmen to wait. When it starts, I throw out a few silver bolts to get credit, and then go back to whatever I am doing on another screen or device. Maybe even reading a book or cleaning. To the casual observer, it could look like botting certainly. But it isn't. Multi tasking is not wrong, it's a human feature.

Nothing in the ToS says you have to be at the keyboard (controller) at every instant that you are logged into the game. AFK is a thing. Your character should be doing nothing but idling while you are AFK, and should never do anything without you actually pressing a button to do it.

I suggest that you might be better off just logging out of the game when you don't have time to actively play, though.

SunTzuJJ_ESO wrote: »

Second, Windows has a built in function called "Click Lock" for your mouse. Everyone on Windows has it. ITS A FEATURE. It's as much a third party automation program AS YOUR ENTIRE OS IS. If ZOS wants to stop the heavy staff spammers, make the staff heavy attack like the bow. Done.

Feature or not, it is against the ToS to use it. Lots of things that can be done end up being against the rules. We would not need rules if this were not the case. The whole point is that you follow the rules, not what can be done.

Yes, ZOS can make the heavy attack so that click lock (rubber banding, brick on keyboard, etc) won't work. The can make it so you have to pass a CAPTCHA each time you use your weapon. They should not have to do this. Instead, they should just ban, or suspend, the people who do it.

SunTzuJJ_ESO wrote: »

The problem with reporting all the people on those rocks, is you just don't know. And because you don't know all the facts, you can't make a fair and accurate decision.

The players are not banning or suspending anyone. That is all on ZOS. If someone thinks another player is botting, and they are so inclined to report that person, then they should report them. We cannot expect that the players are experts in bot detection, nor should we expect that players should always be right when they do report someone. That is for ZOS to decide.

One tactic that botters can use to help diffuse the situation is to get a lot of normal people (not botters) to crowd around them while they bot. It makes it harder to target the bot character, and dilutes the reporting.

My suggestion is to simply stop botting, if doing it, and stay away from those that do, if not.

SydneyGrey wrote: »

lordrichter wrote: »

The lazy people are not going to bother with whispers. It's more work to whisper to someone. The people who send whispers are the ones who already think you are a bot, and if you are not acting like a bot, they have no reason to send you a whisper.

Not really. It takes time to sit there and observe the person for 10 minutes, or even 5, and it takes away from their game play.

I get where you are coming from, but dolmens are easy pickings for people who report bots. There is no need to waste 10 minutes, or even 5 minutes, watching them. These easy-to-report bots are just standing there firing a staff every second, or so, when nothing is happening. (If this describes anyone reading this, and you are not wanting to be reported as a bot, then stop doing it.)

When you are at a dolmen, pretty much anyone who is attacking a single spot, repeatedly, when there is nothing there to attack, deserves to be reported for botting. Running around spamming abilities? Not the same thing. Standing there doing nothing(AFK)? Not the same thing. Constantly firing at the same spot, when there is nothing there, is the low hanging fruit, and those are the people that are going to get reported first, even if they respond to whispers.

This! I don't know what's so hard to understand about this. Even if they do it, I still whisper them but if they are to "lazy" (*caugh*) to answer they shouldn't be surprised when getting reported. This whole botting thing is a shame and it makes me mildly annoyed to see people even justifing such behaviour.