200k AP/H sitting afk at BB mine

Fi'yra

Loicozor wrote: »

Bye half of pvp players

l i t e r a l l y..

KingMagaw

ZOS_BrianWheeler wrote: »

We are looking into getting this fixed ASAP now gang. Also this was not "accidental so some dev can get easy AP" so let's nuke that theory real quick. From everything we can tell, Black Boot Mine always had that server setting for having AP like a Keep instead of a resource and when the new reward values got put in, there you go. Turns out you all could have gotten more AP from Black Boot Mine for the past couple years!

Once again, no shame in admitting your incompetence to have an exploit in the game for so long. I would even go so far to say your trying to make a joke of this.

Fact of the matter is throughout ESO almost everything has been exploited at some time or another, mostly when content is released with a blatant lack of testing. Your policy seemingly is to rely on players reporting issues who take the time to invest in the PTS, which is clearly not working - Firstly because so many took time out to document issues that were ignored/not even a post from Z0$ to recognize it and secondly your track record of enforcing cheating/exploiting in ESO is nearly nonexistent (Doesn't help you have ZERO transparency).

So some players stopped testing your rushed out buggy content on the PTS (Me+friends circle) and some of the remaining players simply play the PTS to take advantage of the numerous exploits when the patch goes LIVE.

Zero confidence in your ability to achieve anything constructive.

@ZOS_BrianWheeler

Wollust

Just put in a cooldown for those AP ticks. A character can't earn more than 1 keep tick (just the 6k) in 10min. And something like 5 min for resources. That way people won't be able to earn more ap/hour by not doing any PvP compared to real PvP. And it won't really affect people that are playing the map completely legit because keep flips rarely happen that fast.

Ofc don't do this if it would mean more lag because more calculations and whatever.

Joy_Division

Someone asked they don't understand why some people think ZoS should be lenient.

I just don't think this is the issue for ZoS to all of a sudden get tough and drop the hammer. I don't see it as a big deal. I'm sorry I don't.

What I find a lot worse is the self-exculpation from these exploiters who are lying through their teeth to our face like we're too damn stupid to know exactly what's going on. Gimme a break. You got caught. Are you 10? I try not to judge people on how they play a videogame (I seem to be in a minority here), but when you lie to my face thinking I'm some rube, then you aren't playing a videogame, now you are flat out insulting me.

But anyway, I have a *much* bigger problem with the toxic ego-driven mean and hateful people who engagement in constant harassment because that behavior actually does hurt other players in this community. It is possible to get banned for harassment, get another account banned for illegally logging on, buy another account and continue to do the very things that got them banned in the first place: constant t-bagging, hateful tells, spreading slanderous lies - even having this behavior videotaped and brought to ZoS's attention and it does nothing. But maybe I'm just weird that way in seeing how some otherwise decent people are exploiting a dumb AP mechanic change isn't nearly as egregious as legit hateful people who have no problem engaging in constant malicious and hurtful behavior.

The significant AP gains for PvDooring is a highly dubious mechanic that is just begging to be exploited. Granted, not everyone is as brazen to do what has been done at Blackboot mine, but I will be the first to admit my behavior has definitely changed. If Arrius LM is under attack, I will not defend it. I will wait for it to be capped and then take it back because it is by far more potential AP. If there is a PvD at Chalman where my help is clearly not needed, I am going to stick around for that juicy 6K tick rather than do something constructive to help my alliance. Tacit and unspoken trading PvDoors at resources and especially outposts are still going to be a thing, they just wont be as explicit as what happened at Blackboot Mine. This mechanic is so easy to exploit and there is so much free AP to be had, it's almost asking too much not to unconsciously hang around for that 6K PvD tick instead of actually doing something constructive for your alliance.

Does this mean that I think it's ok to exploit a questionable mechanic? No. I just think there are worse things that continue to exist in this game that happen every night. I'm not saying they should get away with it - I personally would strip the offenders of all the AP they made and then be done with it - I am saying that a punishment should fit the crime. I am unfamiliar with any legal system that states that punishments should be meted out to "set an example," and if there is one, I would vigorously oppose such an unfair system. At the end of the day, I don't see trading AP ticks at a resource nearly as egregious and hurtful as actual malicious behavior toward fellow community members.

KisoValley

Joy_Division wrote: »

Someone asked they don't understand why some people think ZoS should be lenient.

I just don't think this is the issue for ZoS to all of a sudden get tough and drop the hammer. I don't see it as a big deal. I'm sorry I don't.

What I find a lot worse is the self-exculpation from these exploiters who are lying through their teeth to our face like we're too damn stupid to know exactly what's going on. Gimme a break. You got caught. Are you 10? I try not to judge people on how they play a videogame (I seem to be in a minority here), but when you lie to my face thinking I'm some rube, then you aren't playing a videogame, now you are flat out insulting me.

But anyway, I have a *much* bigger problem with the toxic ego-driven mean and hateful people who engagement in constant harassment because that behavior actually does hurt other players in this community. It is possible to get banned for harassment, get another account banned for illegally logging on, buy another account and continue to do the very things that got them banned in the first place: constant t-bagging, hateful tells, spreading slanderous lies - even having this behavior videotaped and brought to ZoS's attention and it does nothing. But maybe I'm just weird that way in seeing how some otherwise decent people are exploiting a dumb AP mechanic change isn't nearly as egregious as legit hateful people who have no problem engaging in constant malicious and hurtful behavior.

The significant AP gains for PvDooring is a highly dubious mechanic that is just begging to be exploited. Granted, not everyone is as brazen to do what has been done at Blackboot mine, but I will be the first to admit my behavior has definitely changed. If Arrius LM is under attack, I will not defend it. I will wait for it to be capped and then take it back because it is by far more potential AP. If there is a PvD at Chalman where my help is clearly not needed, I am going to stick around for that juicy 6K tick rather than do something constructive to help my alliance. Tacit and unspoken trading PvDoors at resources and especially outposts are still going to be a thing, they just wont be as explicit as what happened at Blackboot Mine. This mechanic is so easy to exploit and there is so much free AP to be had, it's almost asking too much not to unconsciously hang around for that 6K PvD tick instead of actually doing something constructive for your alliance.

Does this mean that I think it's ok to exploit a questionable mechanic? No. I just think there are worse things that continue to exist in this game that happen every night. I'm not saying they should get away with it - I personally would strip the offenders of all the AP they made and then be done with it - I am saying that a punishment should fit the crime. I am unfamiliar with any legal system that states that punishments should be meted out to "set an example," and if there is one, I would vigorously oppose such an unfair system. At the end of the day, I don't see trading AP ticks at a resource nearly as egregious and hurtful as actual malicious behavior toward fellow community members.

You realise groups and guilds are ALREADY abusing outposts and gaining just as much AP at them as people were doing at BB mine?

They fixed BB mine, so they moved over to outposts. 200k AP/hr and it's legitimate.

NoFlash

When people rather get alliance points instead of play your Alliance vs Alliance warfare, you know you're doing something wrong.

#PLEASEDOSOMETHING2017

Edit: Battlegrounds needs to be a hit. No pressure

Hexys

A nice idea to stop players from farming, but still motivate players to go further into the map could be done like this:

Level 5 keep: 6000 AP
Level 4 keep: 4500 AP
Level 3 keep: 3000 AP
Level 2 keep: 1500 AP
Level 1 keep: 500 AP

Level 5 resource: 1500 AP
Level 4 resource: 1250 AP
Level 3 resource: 1000 AP
Level 2 resource: 750 AP
Level 1 resource: 500 AP

Anazasi

Hexys wrote: »

A nice idea to stop players from farming, but still motivate players to go further into the map could be done like this:

Level 5 keep: 6000 AP
Level 4 keep: 4500 AP
Level 3 keep: 3000 AP
Level 2 keep: 1500 AP
Level 1 keep: 500 AP

Level 5 resource: 1500 AP
Level 4 resource: 1250 AP
Level 3 resource: 1000 AP
Level 2 resource: 750 AP
Level 1 resource: 500 AP

not a bad idea although I can see this being abused as well. ZERG takes a front line keep and barricades themselves in. Waits the necessary time for everything else to reach lvl 5 and then starts over again. In the meantime they simply farm AP as a defense. You realize too that since this wonderful zerg took everything there is nothing really worth taking by other players because they are lvl 1. Where is the incentive to avoid the zerg and take other objectives?

Nutshotz

So let me get this straight. Everyone is making a big deal about the AP bug. Who TF cares. Now wheeler and the team are debating on what to do about the players involved.. alright than Crack down on the people who are exploiting the invisible bug and using it to their advantage, the TBS bug. Hell the list can go on and on. Oh and my favorite on how @crown77 and others deliberately told zos about the roll dodge bug and how you can get it to 100% dodge chance. So why not Crack down on those players too that were abusing the system not just the people that BB mine for the AP bug.

So if youre gonna do something about the players involved with the AP bug @BB mine, you better do that to the other players that were using other bugs/exploits to their advantage. Just saying.

SleepyTroll

PeaNutShotz wrote: »

So let me get this straight. Everyone is making a big deal about the AP bug. Who TF cares. Now wheeler and the team are debating on what to do about the players involved.. alright than Crack down on the people who are exploiting the invisible bug and using it to their advantage, the TBS bug. Hell the list can go on and on. Oh and my favorite on how @crown77 and others deliberately told zos about the roll dodge bug and how you can get it to 100% dodge chance. So why not Crack down on those players too that were abusing the system not just the people that BB mine for the AP bug.

So if youre gonna do something about the players involved with the AP bug @BB mine, you better do that to the other players that were using other bugs/exploits to their advantage. Just saying.

So... How long did you spend at the mine? Everyone wants people banned for what you listed. Exploiting is exploiting. But ESO is the game exploiters go to to prosper.

pmn100b16_ESO

I know how to get this fixed guys.

@ZOS_BrianWheeler Seeing two factions farming Nikel is ruining my immersion of the Alliance War.

There, I said the word.

Behmi

Thx for the hotfix but now the action is in nikles like the same, plz bring an cooldown or reduce the points.

Ernest145

Anazasi wrote: »

Lets get some perspective. The players want to spend all this time complaining about AP a rather worthless commodity. While the following game breaking bugs exists in PVP.

1. Invisible players: Apparently small groups are simply and miraculously able to get this bug without much effort and of course they all claim its random. In either case do you think ZOS should be doing something about this immediately?
2. Gear switching while in combat: I know you all have seen it and wondered how does that archer go from massive DPS to running like the wind to never being caught, or those players that seem to never take damage and then flip cast destro ults and do massive amounts of damage. Well heard from a reliable source last night that there is a way to tie sets of gear to your weapon swap ability and are able to swap those sets regardless of combat status. So what they gain is the possibility of 4 set bonus's instead of 2. Is this not more important than AP farming?
3. Of course our favorite The CE cheat engine. This is still being used by several players.
4. All the other game breaking cheats that have yet to surface because apparently several players are smart enough to work around ZOS's engine.

This kind of cheating and exploiting is what is truly game breaking, but apparently the community is ok because these cheats only reward a very small number of players and there is no real concern of course until several of them ball up and run all over the map wiping other groups. However our community wants to worry about AP gained not by cheating the system but by working within the systems. So instead of players farming AP at a resource they are farming it at an outpost. Right or Wrong you can not apply a reward based system to a game and expect players to take advantage of a weakness you have programed into it.

Maybe AP should be held to the end of campaign for all players and if you win the campaign you get 100% of what you earned, 2nd place you get 75% of what you earned and finally 3rd place you get 50% of what you earned. I bet this never happens.

This entire debate over something as trivial as AP has totally left a sour taste in my mouth. I wish I could say it was from something else, but in all honesty, It has made me not want to log in.

I don't remember anyone being fine with other players exploiting and not getting in trouble for it. All these others "exploits" you listed are not even confirmed to my knowledge.

I haven't seen one invisible group, single players yes. From my knowledge that is a bug that people don't even know how to activate. Maybe some people do but we cant really confirm that because some players genuinely become invisible without trying.

I've never heard of gear switching and have never really seen it be done, and I'm sure I would noticed if something swapped weapons or different sets starting procing from them.

I've heard that there is a way to still use CE but nobody has ever confirmed it and I've never fought someone that felt like they were using it. Obviously they can hide it if they are using it, but again there is no real way of knowing.

Sure if they are really being used then sure I along with others would like for action to be taken. We can't confirm if people are using them so we cant just go and yell at zos to ban people we aren't even sure are exploiting. BB mine was clearly bugged and people knowingly abused it for their benefit. These players should have consequences, there really shouldn't be any discussion about this.

Also, about outpost being farmed that is just bad game design. I don't agree with it and wouldn't do it but outpost were designed to give 6k AP. There isn't a bug being abused so nothing should happen to those players, ZOS should just redesign the whole AP rewards for capturing objectives.

Master_Kas

yamadas wrote: »

Yea, ok just remove pvp aspect form game and be done.

Oh no, you stopped believing in Wrobel?

Armitas

Anazasi wrote: »

Lets get some perspective. The players want to spend all this time complaining about AP a rather worthless commodity. While the following game breaking bugs exists in PVP.

1. Invisible players: Apparently small groups are simply and miraculously able to get this bug without much effort and of course they all claim its random. In either case do you think ZOS should be doing something about this immediately?
2. Gear switching while in combat: I know you all have seen it and wondered how does that archer go from massive DPS to running like the wind to never being caught, or those players that seem to never take damage and then flip cast destro ults and do massive amounts of damage. Well heard from a reliable source last night that there is a way to tie sets of gear to your weapon swap ability and are able to swap those sets regardless of combat status. So what they gain is the possibility of 4 set bonus's instead of 2. Is this not more important than AP farming?
3. Of course our favorite The CE cheat engine. This is still being used by several players.
4. All the other game breaking cheats that have yet to surface because apparently several players are smart enough to work around ZOS's engine.

This kind of cheating and exploiting is what is truly game breaking, but apparently the community is ok because these cheats only reward a very small number of players and there is no real concern of course until several of them ball up and run all over the map wiping other groups. However our community wants to worry about AP gained not by cheating the system but by working within the systems. So instead of players farming AP at a resource they are farming it at an outpost. Right or Wrong you can not apply a reward based system to a game and expect players to take advantage of a weakness you have programed into it.

Maybe AP should be held to the end of campaign for all players and if you win the campaign you get 100% of what you earned, 2nd place you get 75% of what you earned and finally 3rd place you get 50% of what you earned. I bet this never happens.

This entire debate over something as trivial as AP has totally left a sour taste in my mouth. I wish I could say it was from something else, but in all honesty, It has made me not want to log in.

All of those exploits are used to gain more AP. But in the end they at least worked for it in part. The people who ranked up from this exploit didn't work at all. They didn't use steroids for an advantage, they locked the other team up and walked the ball across the field.

Earthewen

I am thrilled to see ZOS finally taking action with this kind of behavior. Thank you for looking into this issue. I do find it somewhat hilarious that people are whining about ZOS finally doing this. "Me thinks he doth protest too much."

Kartalin

When I first saw the increased AP announced, I assumed it would be divided among all present. Why not do that?

Aiphaton

can you pls fix finally the invsib player
a hotfix cant be that hard if you could fix the amount of ap gaining in lik 1day..

covenant_merchant

themdogesbite wrote: »

Can you also fix the farming in NIkel on Haderus EU? ty

Please don't. It's the only thing left to do when you get zerged by invisible players. Or just straight up zerged.

Psilent wrote: »

themdogesbite wrote: »

Can you also fix the farming in NIkel on Haderus EU? ty

They just need to close down the campaign. If Nikel is flipping like that it means the population on the campaign is to small to support it being open.

Have you considered that the campaign population is fine, but nobody save for a few trolls, wants to stop the Nikel shindig?

zyk

Kartalin wrote: »

When I first saw the increased AP announced, I assumed it would be divided among all present. Why not do that?

Because the modern gamer demands Grand Overlord just for showing up.

Ankael07

Long ago I've decided not to participate in pvp right after a big patch. Be cause every time theres a new exploit to ruin your game. Some of them dont even get fixed for months if not the next big patch.

Own

ZOS_BrianWheeler wrote: »

We have the list of all players in the EU and NA that gained AP from Black Boot Mine and discussing what actions to take with that information.

roll them back.. wayyyy back

Chuga_Rei

I hate that im going to see very few of these farmers in 4v4v4

ganzaeso

ZOS_BrianWheeler wrote: »

We have the list of all players in the EU and NA that gained AP from Black Boot Mine and discussing what actions to take with that information.

Since it takes about 150 - 166 flips to earn 1 million AP off this error, might I suggest looking at how many times a player actually flipped it to determine just how abused it was.

A player who has 10 or less flips might not have even known what was happening and was just responding to an enemy alliance presence.

Ackwalan

Chuga_Rei wrote: »

I hate that im going to see very few of these farmers in 4v4v4

If there is an achievement, title or any kind of reward at all, you will see many exploiters in battlegrounds.

Chuga_Rei

Ackwalan wrote: »

Chuga_Rei wrote: »

I hate that im going to see very few of these farmers in 4v4v4

If there is an achievement, title or any kind of reward at all, you will see many exploiters in battlegrounds.

Im sure we will, hopefully it will leave me with the ability to at least fight back.

I used to kill people who used CE all the time. and how many times have we all killed blinxey lol?

Delphinia

I have been reading so much about this BB mine "issue" lately that I don't know whether to laugh or cry from the absurdity of it all.

I wasn't there to see it first hand, but it sounds like it was quite a creative way to gain some decent AP.
It also sounds like players were utilizing the skills ZOS enabled as well as the "mechanics" of the game.

It doesn't sound like players were using CE or other such "cheat" to advance their characters.

I don't think it's fair for ZOS to place fault on players who are playing the game THEY created, whether what they ended up with was actually intended or not. If it was not intended, then it's ZOS's responsibility to fix it.

It doesn't sound like they were adding or modifying the game in any way, but it does sound like they were playing the game the way ZOS delivered it to their players.

There are so many things that are in dire need of a resolution in this game. I'm not saying that this should be in the game.

Just like the "invisible players" in Cyrodiil. If players know they're invisible, but are still playing and getting kills and earning AP, should those players be held accountable as well? Maybe they should just stop pvp'ing altogether until they think ZOS has "fixed" the bug?
How does one prove that they know or don't know if they're invisible?
How can they prove those at the BB mine weren't aware of the drastic AP? And even if they were aware....how do they know ZOS didn't INTEND it? I don't know what ZOS is thinking, I can't possibly be expected to know what they consider "working as intended" or not.

ZOS needs to focus on fixing what they don't like about THEIR game, and perhaps working on better ways to weed out the players who try to "fix" the game by using little things like CE.

Chuga_Rei

"How can you prove these cheaters who only stayed at blackboot mine because it was the only one working like this and no other of the dozens of resources know that what they were doing wasn't intended"

"250k and hour"


"Gain decent ap"



REEeEeEeeeeeEeaeeee

Delphinia

well, ZOS may as well ban everyone then.. and no one will play .. I mean, everyone is going invisible these days (all the cool kids are doing it) and I'm sure they're being told by the players they're killing in "hate tells".. "hey, you're invisible btw"...

covenant_merchant

Paraphrasing and hearsay.

At any rate, over a day later and still no action taken with the List. I guess all the Akaviri motifs are out there somewhere getting ambitious crafters that much closer to master writ vouchers.