New keep and resource capture ticks are BROKEN!!!!!!

josh.lackey_ESO

asneakybanana wrote: »

Anazasi wrote: »

maxjapank wrote: »

asneakybanana wrote: »

I saw it coming but didnt really think it would happen until some ad GM whispered me asking if haxus wanted to partake

There are times I wish that names could be shared. I would really like to know exactly who would whisper another guild to take part in exploiting the system. Even if ZOS opened the door for this to happen, guild leaders and players should have more respect for not engaging into this kind of behavior.

It was me. but mind you sneaky whispered me first about something totally off topic. Once I shared the information or the how to do it, he came running to the forums to drop salt. I was just being nice and sharing with him the mechanic that apparently everyone had already noticed, makes me wonder how elite some players really are.

I don't need to think about this cheesy garbage because I can make ap. I like spreading players out as much as the next guys but sometimes its just stupid getting 6k for an o tick when theres 60 people PVdooring a keep. For instance tonight, just as lols we havent really done any ap farming and are making 80k ap/hr w/ no ap buff just by running around following the 80 man and freely taking keeps and resources which is kind of ridiculous. AP was already much easier to make w/ the doubling of the value of players than it was at launch. Just a bad decision on ZoS' behalf overall and just another reinforcement of what they are doing to this game.

That awkward moment when the way you make AP is also "cheesy garbage".

Crown

@Chuga_Rei Those are the most significant words anyone has said in either of the threads so far. It's a game, and people get too emotionally invested in it. Someone wants to make AP using tricks and play styles outside the norm - good for them, if it makes them happy then power to them. As long as they don't violate the ToS, they should do what's fun for them. There were probably 200+ people trading flags today on PC/NA and more in EU and on consoles (have they been patched to latest?) I'm sure.

I went to BB mine and hung around for a while as did @Sanct16 and many other high rank / old timer players. The ticks were great, but meaningless to me. Not so to the players there though. Something that many people don't understand about us (the 100-150 GOs) is that most of us, myself included, don't care about AP anymore. AP doesn't get us anything other than a bit of gear and even then the RNG on boxes makes me not want to even try. We have the title, the colour, the five stars, and a bit more doesn't do anything for us.

The other players there though, making well over 250k AP / hour was amazing to them. There were a dozen low level players sitting around who went from fresh newb up to skill line 10 in a few hours. Do you remember when you made your first 8 million AP and finally got the fast rez / continuous attacks how happy you were? There were players ecstatic from PvE guilds who were very happy to have been there and not have to come back to PvP again. You complain about having to grind in PvE for particular items - I've been there on the spinner weapons and BSW weapons grind - be happy for these players that they don't have to waste as much time as we did to get something that they want that lets them go and continue doing what's fun to them.

I agree with you about the state of the game and the methods of making AP being sad. There are people reaching Overlord / GO these days who have put the time playing for 3+ years, and with the state of the game others who are newly joined can make it in 2-3 months. Going and trading flags, or arranging keep trades does trivialise what we achieved so long ago, but that's the state of the game. That's what the folks at ZOS' decisions have brought us to. We have a choice to make, we can be upset about it and allow it to affect us emotionally, or we can enjoy the parts of the game that we enjoy, and while a good rant now and then is nice, don't let it bring us down. I choose the latter.

The next time someone brings something to my attention like this, I will probably advise them the same - if it's not against the ToS, and does not violate the spirit of the game (such as feeding kills), then go ahead and do it if it makes you happy.

Anazasi

Lexxypwns wrote: »

Anazasi wrote: »

Even with my small groups of 16 to 20

That's not a small group, don't kid yourself

considering we run into groups of 40 to 60 I would say its all very relative.

Domander

asneakybanana wrote: »

2 organized guilds on different factions can farm 250k+ ap/hr by going to a remote keep w/ 12 people each and just sieging the walls down and then flipping the keep while the other guild takes the resources then once the guild sieging the keep takes it they leave the walls down and run out to the resources while the other guild runs inside the keep and captures it. You can do one of these cycles in ~3 minutes and you make at least 12.5k ap w/ the ap buff for every cycle. That means a guild does this for 4 hours and they've made 1m+ ap. Absolutely disgusting.

As someone who views himself as a decent AP farmer I cap out at around 120k ap/hr over the course of an entire hour so a group doing this w/o doing any fighting at all will be making more than double that. I personally think that keeps should be worth 1.5k ap, and resources should be worth 500 ap. Resources will still be 20x more ap when you take them than before and keeps will be 15x more ap than before but the current values CANNOT STAY. @ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_JessicaFolsom @ZOS_BrianWheeler please address this ASAP

Then the other players come along and kill them all. It gives a reason to go take things and try to win the campaign and not feel like you're wasting time.

Satiar

I'm not sure how I feel about this. On the one hand, it feels stupid cheap. On the other, I want Cyrodiil to be inviting to new players.

New players that come into Cyrodiil are fodder. Mulch. It's not even like a shooter where a bad player can get a random headshot off, unless a good group or a few good bombers come along, I and any other decent guild on the server is just going to eat them until they're worth literally nothing. This has been status quo in Cyrodiil since launch, but it's more true than ever now. And the population continues to shrink.

I don't need AP. Sneaky, you don't need AP. No one of any consequence needs AP. If this makes Cyrodiil attractive? If this gives players a way to feel like they're earning and making progress even if they're dying for it? Then hey, whatever. My enjoyment is not defined by AP gain anymore, or for pretty much anyone in the VE core. I can't imagine any of the other competitive guilds need it either.

People abusing it sucks, but I feel like this is for a different sort of player. For the PvP here to last, there has to be a way for new players to get in the game, and feel like they progressed even when they die a ton..... because they will die a ton. And if there isn't a way for them to feel good despite that they will quit.

I dont know if this is the answer, but if it helps, why not and who cares?

Crown

Satiar wrote: »

I dont know if this is the answer, but if it helps, why not and who cares?

@Satiar Agree 100%. The only time I would personally be upset with this is if someone used it to get ahead of someone else who was going for emperor.

Satiar

Crown wrote: »

Satiar wrote: »

I dont know if this is the answer, but if it helps, why not and who cares?

@Satiar Agree 100%. The only time I would personally be upset with this is if someone used it to get ahead of someone else who was going for emperor.

Well, I'd be disappointed to see any organized guilds doing it. I won't go resource trading with a VE raid and I'd be disappointed to see any guilds of similar caliber do so.

Etaniel

Anazasi wrote: »

Lexxypwns wrote: »

Anazasi wrote: »

Even with my small groups of 16 to 20

That's not a small group, don't kid yourself

considering we run into groups of 40 to 60 I would say its all very relative.

No. 16-20 people isn't a small group at all, even with 80 people facing you. 16-20 people is a raid.

Erondil

Crown wrote: »

Satiar wrote: »

I dont know if this is the answer, but if it helps, why not and who cares?

@Satiar Agree 100%. The only time I would personally be upset with this is if someone used it to get ahead of someone else who was going for emperor.

Which is quite obviously going to happen.

KisoValley

Etaniel wrote: »

Anazasi wrote: »

Lexxypwns wrote: »

Anazasi wrote: »

Even with my small groups of 16 to 20

That's not a small group, don't kid yourself

considering we run into groups of 40 to 60 I would say its all very relative.

No. 16-20 people isn't a small group at all, even with 80 people facing you. 16-20 people is a raid.

^

That's a raid. I raid myself, I can't call myself being in a 12-16 man group a small group lol.

josh.lackey_ESO

How is this significantly different than how unscrupulous AP farmers could already feed each other ticks by intentionally dying an opposing team resource -- ostensibly to "death port" or "duel" -- then switching up which team dies for the other? Not much at all. (I tell gankers this sometimes: If you just need free kills, I will get some buddies to come die on a resource for you, then you can get your easy AP and then go make a respectable build.) Tick feeding is a well known phenomenon for emp pushers.

But if anything, I think these changes encourage small scale pvp. If you have a real problem with this change, then you can personally take action by *gasp* actually defending your faction's resources when they light up. Is it beneath mighty ball zerg destro stackers to split up to defend lowly faction resources from a pug or two when they light?

Someone mentioned this would mean less wall reps. I think just the opposite, this change makes repairs, relative to AP gains, much cheaper to buy. I think this will encourage more people to rep because the have moar AP to "waste" on rep kits.

Crown

Satiar wrote: »

Crown wrote: »

Satiar wrote: »

I dont know if this is the answer, but if it helps, why not and who cares?

@Satiar Agree 100%. The only time I would personally be upset with this is if someone used it to get ahead of someone else who was going for emperor.

Well, I'd be disappointed to see any organized guilds doing it. I won't go resource trading with a VE raid and I'd be disappointed to see any guilds of similar caliber do so.

@Satiar The reason you won't see an organized guild group doing this is that it's hellishly boring. If there were to be GvG contests of capture the flag or some such with the added reward, then I'm sure we'd all be there!

Joy_Division

josh.lackey_ESO wrote: »

But if anything, I think these changes encourage small scale pvp. If you have a real problem with this change, then you can personally take action by *gasp* actually defending your faction's resources when they light up. Is it beneath mighty ball zerg destro stackers to split up to defend lowly faction resources from a pug or two when they light?

Why would I defend a resource when I can let the enemy take it and then simply take it back for that massive O tick?

When that small-scale of two gets rolled over by a raid retaking a resource, the raid's O tick does not get diluted. That's the consequence of this questionable system that encourages PvDoors.

Why can't we get a system of rewards that does not ecnourage PvDooring and actually encourages people to use the map? Add objectives to the 90% of the map nobody goes to that are not associated with or connected to the keep-resource system: Supply carts, command posts, valuable raw material caches, transportation nodes, anceint dwemer/Aleyid ruins, etc., and reward players with AP, mats, loot drops, other stuff for destroying/secruing them for their respective alliance.

There done. A system that incentivizes people off the emp ring, does not encourage PvDoor, and gives players tangible rewards they might actually care about. There will be small scale across the map in places away from keeps where people wont have to worry about an enemy raid porting to a keep that is 20 seconds away.

Ackwalan

People that are exploiting this, are on the same level as spawn campers in first person shooter games.

Chuga_Rei

The thing people need to remember is on both sides there is no point in justify it. If you used this mechanic to farm AP, people know who you are, and remember. Much the same as emp farmers who ride around with their former emp title when everyone knows they didn't earn it lol.

Let me give you a comparison. I like to race cars(1/4th mile). All sorts of people show up to the trip to race, and it's just cool to see everyone involved, I don't care if you can't afford a car that goes sub 10 seconds or 150+ mph, it's awesome you are partaking in the sport. That's a great thing regardless of your time invested in the hobby.
What I do still see from time to time is people who maybe ran not so great times going to the bar down the road after and telling big stories about how fast they went, or trying to pick up a girl with tall tales of their vehicle that aren't true. You see, this works on the normies, people who aren't at the track or just don't know much about racing. But for us who are actually devoted to the hobby, and have put in the time whether we are fast or slow we know if they are truthful.

The same goes for this exploit, if you magically hit rank 50 because you spent a few days afk at a resource well guess what, people will know, and it may impress people in storm haven or reapers but you are going to be the butt of TS convos all over cyrodiil.

Angus

Who cares?

If I have 10 AP, and go up against a guy with 1,000,000 AP, it's still the same fight.

Unless he bought a couple gold rings with that ill-gotten AP... but if that's the reason I lose, it's not the reason I lost nomsayin?

themdogesbite

6k AP as a base value is way to much, make it spread across the players in the area instead of giving each one 6k.

Magus

Well one nice thing is that you don't have to wait for D-ticks at keeps anymore, it's almost like people are sprinting away from the keeps to recap the resources after a successful defense.

Lokey0024

Or ZoS ban people who do this.

Xsorus

Etaniel wrote: »

Anazasi wrote: »

Lexxypwns wrote: »

Anazasi wrote: »

Even with my small groups of 16 to 20

That's not a small group, don't kid yourself

considering we run into groups of 40 to 60 I would say its all very relative.

No. 16-20 people isn't a small group at all, even with 80 people facing you. 16-20 people is a raid.

Heh

People running in a Raid calling themselves a small group cause a Bigger Raid came along always cracked me up *grin*

Angus

Xsorus wrote: »

People running in a Raid calling themselves a small group cause a Bigger Raid came along always cracked me up *grin*

Gotta try out some of that sick smaller group pvp action brah

CadaCosa

My idea, lets all get along in Cyrodiil. I call it the One Cyrodiil patch. Three groups , one from each faction stand around a resource and just take turns capturing it! Everyone gets AP, the players don't fight rather just make so much AP that ZoS needs to change it.

Chuga_Rei

Angus wrote: »

Xsorus wrote: »

People running in a Raid calling themselves a small group cause a Bigger Raid came along always cracked me up *grin*

Gotta try out some of that sick smaller group pvp action brah

See you in arenas

Paul_DA

Imo the ticks have to be changed,
6k for a Outpost is too much .
And I think a flat value isnt the answere aswell.

Katahdin

I am loving the AP gains now. At least it makes playing PvP more rewarding. For those of us that can't play 24/7, i no longer takes forever to have enough AP to buy gold stuff from the gold vendor. We all know how crappy the rewards of the worthy are. The increased AP makes it more worthwhile.

I think people that exploit AP gains by capturing a keep back and forth are trash players. However I don't see them being any different than people that tower or bridge farm for AP. The difference is that farming players over and over has diminishing returns because the players give less AP on subsequent kills.
They should implement a diminishing return in AP for capturing the same keep within a certain time frame.

Darnathian

Katahdin wrote: »

I am loving the AP gains now. At least it makes playing PvP more rewarding. For those of us that can't play 24/7, i no longer takes forever to have enough AP to buy gold stuff from the gold vendor. We all know how crappy the rewards of the worthy are. The increased AP makes it more worthwhile.

I think people that exploit AP gains by capturing a keep back and forth are trash players. However I don't see them being any different than people that tower or bridge farm for AP. The difference is that farming players over and over has diminishing returns because the players give less AP on subsequent kills.
They should implement a diminishing return in AP for capturing the same keep within a certain time frame.

Omg. They are pvping. U serious?

I hate farmers. Bad for performance. Bad for having good fights. But they are still miles above anyone doing this.

alexkdd99

DannyLV702 wrote: »

This is what zos catering to pve'ers is like

Lol what? What does this have to do with pve? Nothing about this is any way related to pve. It would seem they catered to pvp wanting resources to mean something. I just don't understand how pve got brought into this.

But again people always want to create divides and have someone to blame. I wouldn't classify myself as one or the other because I enjoy the entire game. This is how games use to be played.

josh.lackey_ESO

Black Boot Mine was giving keep AP. This was fixed. Apart from that, so far it looks like the change to resource ticks has actually encouraged more small-scall pvp. The resource tick AP seems to also apply to cities.

I also think this indirectly affects the campaign score, as now solo or very-small-group players have some incentive to keep resources for their faction's score. Before, you had to have some personal interest in winning the campaign to go through the drudgery of flipping resources back. Now, it gives roughly the same AP as a player kill.

asneakybanana

josh.lackey_ESO wrote: »

Black Boot Mine was giving keep AP. This was fixed. Apart from that, so far it looks like the change to resource ticks has actually encouraged more small-scall pvp. The resource tick AP seems to also apply to cities.

I also think this indirectly affects the campaign score, as now solo or very-small-group players have some incentive to keep resources for their faction's score. Before, you had to have some personal interest in winning the campaign to go through the drudgery of flipping resources back. Now, it gives roughly the same AP as a player kill.

As far as ive seen this hasnt changed anything with zerging at all. Instead it almost feels like it encourages it. A small group is going to say wow Im going to make 2-3k defending this resource right now but I could be at that keep thats under attack by 90 players and get a 6k tick with a fraction of the effort. Yes, I have found myself with an 8 man stopping at every resource on the way to our objective but its not like were going out of our way to take resources around the map.

NBrookus

Of course the new ticks encourage zerging. You get more AP for PVDooring an empty keep than most defense ticks, and it doesn't matter how many players were there. Bring 20 to take a resource? You all get a participation trophy.

The capture AP needs to be split up. Maybe a higher base then there was previously, then a bonus split among the people there. For example, a resource is worth 400 AP base, then 1200 AP pool. A solo player gets 1600 AP for taking it. Two people get 1000 each. 20 people get 400 + (1200/20) = 460 AP.

I do think this change was PVE driven. The past few patches, ZOS has been trying to make Undaunted/Fighters/Mages/Alliance easier to level. Warhorn and Vigor have never been this fast and easy to get, but you do still have to go to Cyrodiil and at least dabble in PvP.