vyndral13preub18_ESO wrote: »
Not that I dont enjoy the game, but Given the recent change. I tend to think the game is failing at whatever model it chooses.
Could it not also be Greed that vast amounts of people want a good, produced by the hard work of others, be given to them for free? That, in my opinion, is far more greedy.
Also you don't pay $15 a month for a magazine company to have them ship you the typical magazine, then change it to a where you have to pay $40 for a real magazine while you just get old magazines from last year now.
And yes I know how shady business work's I've been involved with hedge funds in the past.
Also you don't pay $15 a month for a magazine company to have them ship you the typical magazine, then change it to a where you have to pay $40 for a real magazine while you just get old magazines from last year now.
And yes I know how shady business work's I've been involved with hedge funds in the past.
You must not have subscribed to many magazines in the last 20 years. Magazines change their subscription prices all the time depending on the coupon or deal you find.
And just to be clear: Along with virtually everyone else who chose a subscription (I presume), I took this into account when I chose to sub instead of purchasing outright. A major factor in that consideration was the knowledge the future content would be made available to us as long as we kept the sub. That's the reason we chose to "invest." Instead, we have spent 3x as much for... a crafting bag. I mean, I guess I get crowns, but they can't be used to purchase Morrowind now, can they? That alone would go a long way towards justifying this paywall.
I've already mentioned in another post that I have no problem with an expansion. I have and will pay for expansions to a subscription-based game. That being said, I take issue with 2 aspects of this situation specifically:
1. This is not what they advertised. ESO+ members should be accommodated in some way to offset the plain fact that we spend way more on this game than someone who purchases content outright. ESO+ was advertised and treated as a long-term investment from the start, and this model contradicts that concept. It's their rules, not ours. We just play by them because we want to support ZOS and the development of ESO.
2. The future DLC after Morrowind... I see we have a dungeon DLC and a "content" DLC (whatever that is, I presume some base game updates like Homestead or One Tamriel that are available to everyone anyway). Where are those dungeons going to be? In Morrowind? How much future DLC content, the stuff that would normally be available to ESO+ members, is going to remain locked behind Morrowind? At most we can expect 2 more DLC this year, both of which are likely only a little pricier (if at all) than a month's subscription. How do they intend to justify the other 10-11 months of me subbing before the next "chapter" comes out and I have to pay for that too?
Also you don't pay $15 a month for a magazine company to have them ship you the typical magazine, then change it to a where you have to pay $40 for a real magazine while you just get old magazines from last year now.
And yes I know how shady business work's I've been involved with hedge funds in the past.
You must not have subscribed to many magazines in the last 20 years. Magazines change their subscription prices all the time depending on the coupon or deal you find.
No it was an example if you want me to change the magazines to life saving medicine like epipens I could people have outrage.
...
Spectral_Lord wrote: »@stewhead2ub17_ESO : People bending over to every decision a developer and defending them makes it laughable too.
Could it not also be Greed that vast amounts of people want a good, produced by the hard work of others, be given to them for free? That, in my opinion, is far more greedy.
It occurred to me, with this comment, that perhaps we should step back into Algebra 1 for a moment, for perspective.
Let's see.... on November 21, 2013, I purchased the Imperial Edition of ESO for $80 USD. Then, when the game went live in March 2014, I began subbing. We'll call that April since it released at the end of the month. So, at $15 USD per month, since April 2014, I have spent $510 USD on subs alone. That's a combined investment of $590 USD.
Let's add up all the of the DLCs.
Shadows of the Hist (1500 Crowns) = $15 USD
Dark Brotherhood (2000 Crowns) = $20 USD
Thieves Guild (2000 Crowns) = $20 USD
Orsinium (3000 Crowns) = $30 USD
Imperial City (2500 Crowns) = $25 USD
Total = $110 USD
Don't forget to add in the Imperial Edition retail copy of the base game, which is $80 USD, for a grand total of $190.
So, compared to someone who purchased the base game and every DLC outright, in lieu of a subscription, I have spent almost 3x as much. Do you want to explain to me how that equates to free?! You can't. Why? because that's not how math works.
And just to be clear: Along with virtually everyone else who chose a subscription (I presume), I took this into account when I chose to sub instead of purchasing outright. A major factor in that consideration was the knowledge the future content would be made available to us as long as we kept the sub. That's the reason we chose to "invest." Instead, we have spent 3x as much for... a crafting bag. I mean, I guess I get crowns, but they can't be used to purchase Morrowind now, can they? That alone would go a long way towards justifying this paywall.
I've already mentioned in another post that I have no problem with an expansion. I have and will pay for expansions to a subscription-based game. That being said, I take issue with 2 aspects of this situation specifically:
1. This is not what they advertised. ESO+ members should be accommodated in some way to offset the plain fact that we spend way more on this game than someone who purchases content outright. ESO+ was advertised and treated as a long-term investment from the start, and this model contradicts that concept. It's their rules, not ours. We just play by them because we want to support ZOS and the development of ESO.
2. The future DLC after Morrowind... I see we have a dungeon DLC and a "content" DLC (whatever that is, I presume some base game updates like Homestead or One Tamriel that are available to everyone anyway). Where are those dungeons going to be? In Morrowind? How much future DLC content, the stuff that would normally be available to ESO+ members, is going to remain locked behind Morrowind? At most we can expect 2 more DLC this year, both of which are likely only a little pricier (if at all) than a month's subscription. How do they intend to justify the other 10-11 months of me subbing before the next "chapter" comes out and I have to pay for that too?
This idea you have in your head that we want things for free is flawed and ignorant. We've already paid for Morrowind 3 times over, in addition to the base game and all DLC. It's not free... I already invested in it. The absolute simplest way to please ESO+ members is to make Morrowind purchasable by crowns - and then? Viola! Problem solved. I can just use my sub money to buy Morrowind. Divines know it's not getting me anything else, except glorified retextures of stuff I already have.
And to be super duper clear with you: I'm really friggin' excited for Morrowind. Aside from the underhanded paywall scheme they've got going on here, the update itself looks fantastic. I wouldn't be subbing to this game (nor would I ever have agreed to) if I didn't want to invest in ESO's future. Furthermore, I wouldn't have subbed to begin with if they had not promised me access to all future DLCs. Call this a "chapter" or an "expansion" or whatever you want, but for all intents and purposes, this is a bigger Orsinium with a new class. There's no doubt in my mind it's worth more than Orsinium, either. But I doubt it's worth the $60 + the other $200 I've already spent on subs that I can't use to purchase it.
Also you don't pay $15 a month for a magazine company to have them ship you the typical magazine, then change it to a where you have to pay $40 for a real magazine while you just get old magazines from last year now.
And yes I know how shady business work's I've been involved with hedge funds in the past.
You must not have subscribed to many magazines in the last 20 years. Magazines change their subscription prices all the time depending on the coupon or deal you find.
I understand and I agree with that, I am perfectly fine with the Crown Store, what I am getting at is the Crates only.Some of the Crown Store choices were greed. I don't believe RNG boxes (Crown Crates) have ever been in the benefit of the consumer.
The expansion is normal for this genre and not really greedy, people are just using that to help augment their argument against the change in content accessibility.
The crown store items are also all optional. In no way does anyone have an advantage over anyone else by having an expensive elk mount. Everything in the crown store helps the development team continue to support the game that you enjoy.
A buy what you want, when you want system is fair on everyone and lets people spend their money how they wish, RNG boxes in games are playing on players desires for one or two items but forcing them to spend more than those items are worth to obtain them due to a majority of the items being useless (consumables in ESO's case).
And all of that is the player's choice to engage. We're not forced to buy crates. I've bought several of them. One: To support the development team through dollars and Two: because I wanted a shot at one of the lightning mounts (I have 2 of them). You can't fault the development team for offering aesthetic items in ways that will allow them to make a profit and continue to support the game. I get that it would be easier for us, the consumer, to just buy what we want. But from a business perspective, that works better for the developer and does not negative affect the gameplay for anyone, which I have no problem with.
Again, it's fine to say players can choose to engage or not in these. However players are forced to engage with them to get items they desire. The "you don't have to" argument was fine when it was a standard "buy x or don't" but now all the players who were happy to buy x have to gamble and pay more for x.
I am fine with them profiting and supporting the game. I have paid sub all of the time I've played, I have purchased numerous crown packs, I purchased the new expansion yesterday. I don't mind paying ZOS. What I mind is being made to jump through hoops and spend more money to attain items which they could have released as a "buy if you want it, don't if you don't" method.
Now if I want to buy an item, I AM forced to buy crates. It makes ZOS seem greedy and continues to build on the feeling they only care about money and not their consumers, which I don't believe is entirely true but somewhere there is someone within ZOS who feels making more bucks is better than the integrity of offering a fair and friendly cash shop to their consumers.
sodantokb16_ESO wrote: »No, lets call it what it is. GREED
Greedy people wanting full access to whole new big expansion for merely ~12 bucks a month.
That's called playing by their rules, They started this whole "get all DLC free with sub" thing. We didn't.
To anyone other than a blind fanboy re-branding largish DLC as "Chapters" or "Expansions" IS a change.
sodantokb16_ESO wrote: »No, lets call it what it is. GREED
Greedy people wanting full access to whole new big expansion for merely ~12 bucks a month.
That's called playing by their rules, They started this whole "get all DLC free with sub" thing. We didn't.
To anyone other than a blind fanboy re-branding largish DLC as "Chapters" or "Expansions" IS a change.
No, it;'s not a change. It's an ALTERATION. Silly.
nova.terratrb14_ESO wrote: »They're calling it an expansion, but its ONE *** ZONE.
60$ gets you all of Tamriel + All DLC minus Shadows.
40$ gets you ONE ZONE. ONE. ONE ZONE. ITS AN EXPANSION WITH 1. ONE. UNO. ZONE.
This should be a 5$ expansion.
They changed thieir DLC model, if you don't like it, unsubscribe and get the dlc you want individually. I don't see the need for 5 pages of argument about it.
sodantokb16_ESO wrote: »No, lets call it what it is. GREED
Greedy people wanting full access to whole new big expansion for merely ~12 bucks a month.
That's called playing by their rules, They started this whole "get all DLC free with sub" thing. We didn't.
To anyone other than a blind fanboy re-branding largish DLC as "Chapters" or "Expansions" IS a change.
No, it;'s not a change. It's an ALTERATION. Silly.
It's not an alteration. It's an ADJUSTMENT...silly...
IndyWendieGo wrote: »Could it not also be Greed that vast amounts of people want a good, produced by the hard work of others, be given to them for free? That, in my opinion, is far more greedy.
Subs were free? I'll have to call Visa right away and ask them to look into those recurring charges from the past 3 years... thanks!
That's something that people aren't wanting to realize, and probably don't sub themselves.
Now those that do sub and defend it? Probably haven't been subbing all that long and those who have understand and sympathize while disagreeing. However this whole political crap injected into the argument like a lot of people are doing? I'd love to see them manage a playerbase using the same mentality.
Considering you get 1500 Crowns per month, a value of $15, as result of your $15 per month subscription, YES, everything outside of that 1500 Crowns is essentially given to you for free. The craft bag is free. DLC's are free. Yes, all of these complaint threads are asking to receive Morrowind for free. Your argument is moot.
IndyWendieGo wrote: »
Considering you get 1500 Crowns per month, a value of $15, as result of your $15 per month subscription, YES, everything outside of that 1500 Crowns is essentially given to you for free. The craft bag is free. DLC's are free. Yes, all of these complaint threads are asking to receive Morrowind for free. Your argument is moot.
You didn't read the post, did you? Where on earth did I say that I wanted Morrowind for free? Assumptions are strong in your arguments and it's not making your position look ANY better. I couldn't care less that it costs 40 bucks to get, if you actually LOOKED at other threads, you'd have seen that.
My issues are;
- Proposed balance, despite them saying the same thing when DLCs started to drop. Where's the balance?
- Performance fixes, despite them saying they'd fix it after every DLC; we're now starting to lag through trials.
- Increased dialogue from developers to the playerbase; big game moves with cloak and dagger ethics lead to this saltfest. They've promised this through several periods of time during DLC drops.
- Fixing issues within customer support; Still getting nonsense from ChetBot.
- Along with the dialogue, they've also promised a wider forum presence, yet Matt Firor hasn't posted very much in the last TWO YEARS.
The list goes on and on. My qualms with the expansion? They haven't fixed what they broke in the first place. You want me to be optimistic about it? Sorry. We must be playing two different games.
IndyWendieGo wrote: »IndyWendieGo wrote: »Could it not also be Greed that vast amounts of people want a good, produced by the hard work of others, be given to them for free? That, in my opinion, is far more greedy.
Subs were free? I'll have to call Visa right away and ask them to look into those recurring charges from the past 3 years... thanks!
That's something that people aren't wanting to realize, and probably don't sub themselves.
Now those that do sub and defend it? Probably haven't been subbing all that long and those who have understand and sympathize while disagreeing. However this whole political crap injected into the argument like a lot of people are doing? I'd love to see them manage a playerbase using the same mentality.
Considering you get 1500 Crowns per month, a value of $15, as result of your $15 per month subscription, YES, everything outside of that 1500 Crowns is essentially given to you for free. The craft bag is free. DLC's are free. Yes, all of these complaint threads are asking to receive Morrowind for free. Your argument is moot.
You didn't read the post, did you? Where on earth did I say that I wanted Morrowind for free? Assumptions are strong in your arguments and it's not making your position look ANY better. I couldn't care less that it costs 40 bucks to get, if you actually LOOKED at other threads, you'd have seen that.
My issues are;
- Proposed balance, despite them saying the same thing when DLCs started to drop. Where's the balance?
- Performance fixes, despite them saying they'd fix it after every DLC; we're now starting to lag through trials.
- Increased dialogue from developers to the playerbase; big game moves with cloak and dagger ethics lead to this saltfest. They've promised this through several periods of time during DLC drops.
- Fixing issues within customer support; Still getting nonsense from ChetBot.
- Along with the dialogue, they've also promised a wider forum presence, yet Matt Firor hasn't posted very much in the last TWO YEARS.
The list goes on and on. My qualms with the expansion? They haven't fixed what they broke in the first place. You want me to be optimistic about it? Sorry. We must be playing two different games.
They changed thieir DLC model, if you don't like it, unsubscribe and get the dlc you want individually. I don't see the need for 5 pages of argument about it.
IndyWendieGo wrote: »
Considering you get 1500 Crowns per month, a value of $15, as result of your $15 per month subscription, YES, everything outside of that 1500 Crowns is essentially given to you for free. The craft bag is free. DLC's are free. Yes, all of these complaint threads are asking to receive Morrowind for free. Your argument is moot.
You didn't read the post, did you? Where on earth did I say that I wanted Morrowind for free? Assumptions are strong in your arguments and it's not making your position look ANY better. I couldn't care less that it costs 40 bucks to get, if you actually LOOKED at other threads, you'd have seen that.
My issues are;
- Proposed balance, despite them saying the same thing when DLCs started to drop. Where's the balance?
- Performance fixes, despite them saying they'd fix it after every DLC; we're now starting to lag through trials.
- Increased dialogue from developers to the playerbase; big game moves with cloak and dagger ethics lead to this saltfest. They've promised this through several periods of time during DLC drops.
- Fixing issues within customer support; Still getting nonsense from ChetBot.
- Along with the dialogue, they've also promised a wider forum presence, yet Matt Firor hasn't posted very much in the last TWO YEARS.
The list goes on and on. My qualms with the expansion? They haven't fixed what they broke in the first place. You want me to be optimistic about it? Sorry. We must be playing two different games.
You use the word "assumption", though there are zero assumptions in my post. There are "opinions" and "perspectives" in my post, no assumptions. From my point of view, you complainers are asking to get Morrowind for free. I explained in the post why I have that perspective.
Your argument is thus: "I am unhappy with W, X, Y, Z; thus, because I am unhappy with those, I don't think ZOS is justified to charge extra for Morrowind." In summary, you are unhappy that ESO+ subscribers aren't getting Morrowind for free. Convolute the words all you want, it's still a basic b**** argument.
IndyWendieGo wrote: »IndyWendieGo wrote: »Could it not also be Greed that vast amounts of people want a good, produced by the hard work of others, be given to them for free? That, in my opinion, is far more greedy.
Subs were free? I'll have to call Visa right away and ask them to look into those recurring charges from the past 3 years... thanks!
That's something that people aren't wanting to realize, and probably don't sub themselves.
Now those that do sub and defend it? Probably haven't been subbing all that long and those who have understand and sympathize while disagreeing. However this whole political crap injected into the argument like a lot of people are doing? I'd love to see them manage a playerbase using the same mentality.
Considering you get 1500 Crowns per month, a value of $15, as result of your $15 per month subscription, YES, everything outside of that 1500 Crowns is essentially given to you for free. The craft bag is free. DLC's are free. Yes, all of these complaint threads are asking to receive Morrowind for free. Your argument is moot.
You didn't read the post, did you? Where on earth did I say that I wanted Morrowind for free? Assumptions are strong in your arguments and it's not making your position look ANY better. I couldn't care less that it costs 40 bucks to get, if you actually LOOKED at other threads, you'd have seen that.
My issues are;
- Proposed balance, despite them saying the same thing when DLCs started to drop. Where's the balance?
- Performance fixes, despite them saying they'd fix it after every DLC; we're now starting to lag through trials.
- Increased dialogue from developers to the playerbase; big game moves with cloak and dagger ethics lead to this saltfest. They've promised this through several periods of time during DLC drops.
- Fixing issues within customer support; Still getting nonsense from ChetBot.
- Along with the dialogue, they've also promised a wider forum presence, yet Matt Firor hasn't posted very much in the last TWO YEARS.
The list goes on and on. My qualms with the expansion? They haven't fixed what they broke in the first place. You want me to be optimistic about it? Sorry. We must be playing two different games.
Proposed balance - and who defines what the balance is? Every time a balance fix is put in to place, somebody complains that it isn't balanced
Performance fixes - sure, the servers (which they admit in Cyrodil and IC are pretty bad), but, what other fixes?
Increased dialogue - ???? so that people like you who complain about everything can barrage them with junk? Can't really blame them
Customer support - okay, I'll give you that one. It's been pretty bad.
Wider Forum Presence - ??? Just look at the forums. How many threads have they been in and contributed to? Just on the front page I can count about 10. That's pretty good actually.
All in all, it's YOU. YOU are not satisfied and feel that YOU should be catered to.
I give up on you people and this type of threads. You will never be satisfied. If the fix one thing, it's not what you wanted and you'll complain. If they give you what you want, you want something else. If they "balance" something, it's not the balance you want.
As I've said repeatedly. There is an elite group of players that seem to think that the entire game revolves around them and that only they should be satisfied. Do you have any idea how frustrating it is for so many of us players (and I can only go by what we, in my group of 73 players are saying) to try to ignore all of you? We can't play PvP because of you. We can't join any high-level groups because of people like you and your "expectation" and bully tactics. What do you want? Do you want those of us that play to have fun, not compete the heck out of everything and attempt to be the "Gods of ESO" to just quit?
I wash my hands of you sir (or madam, it's hard to tell).
Could it not also be Greed that vast amounts of people want a good, produced by the hard work of others, be given to them for free? That, in my opinion, is far more greedy.
It occurred to me, with this comment, that perhaps we should step back into Algebra 1 for a moment, for perspective.
Let's see.... on November 21, 2013, I purchased the Imperial Edition of ESO for $80 USD. Then, when the game went live in March 2014, I began subbing. We'll call that April since it released at the end of the month. So, at $15 USD per month, since April 2014, I have spent $510 USD on subs alone. That's a combined investment of $590 USD.
2. The future DLC after Morrowind... I see we have a dungeon DLC and a "content" DLC (whatever that is, I presume some base game updates like Homestead or One Tamriel that are available to everyone anyway). Where are those dungeons going to be? In Morrowind? How much future DLC content, the stuff that would normally be available to ESO+ members, is going to remain locked behind Morrowind? At most we can expect 2 more DLC this year, both of which are likely only a little pricier (if at all) than a month's subscription. How do they intend to justify the other 10-11 months of me subbing before the next "chapter" comes out and I have to pay for that too?
This idea you have in your head that we want things for free is flawed and ignorant. We've already paid for Morrowind 3 times over, in addition to the base game and all DLC. It's not free... I already invested in it. The absolute simplest way to please ESO+ members is to make Morrowind purchasable by crowns - and then? Viola! Problem solved. I can just use my sub money to buy Morrowind. Divines know it's not getting me anything else, except glorified retextures of stuff I already have.
lordrichter wrote: »Could it not also be Greed that vast amounts of people want a good, produced by the hard work of others, be given to them for free? That, in my opinion, is far more greedy.
It occurred to me, with this comment, that perhaps we should step back into Algebra 1 for a moment, for perspective.
Let's see.... on November 21, 2013, I purchased the Imperial Edition of ESO for $80 USD. Then, when the game went live in March 2014, I began subbing. We'll call that April since it released at the end of the month. So, at $15 USD per month, since April 2014, I have spent $510 USD on subs alone. That's a combined investment of $590 USD.
Uh, April 2014 was part of the "free 30 days", which ended up being the "free 35 days". We did not need to start paying a subscription until like May 5. You need to subtract $15 from your subscription total.2. The future DLC after Morrowind... I see we have a dungeon DLC and a "content" DLC (whatever that is, I presume some base game updates like Homestead or One Tamriel that are available to everyone anyway). Where are those dungeons going to be? In Morrowind? How much future DLC content, the stuff that would normally be available to ESO+ members, is going to remain locked behind Morrowind? At most we can expect 2 more DLC this year, both of which are likely only a little pricier (if at all) than a month's subscription. How do they intend to justify the other 10-11 months of me subbing before the next "chapter" comes out and I have to pay for that too?
At this time, there is no reason to believe that any of the coming DLC will require Morrowind.This idea you have in your head that we want things for free is flawed and ignorant. We've already paid for Morrowind 3 times over, in addition to the base game and all DLC. It's not free... I already invested in it. The absolute simplest way to please ESO+ members is to make Morrowind purchasable by crowns - and then? Viola! Problem solved. I can just use my sub money to buy Morrowind. Divines know it's not getting me anything else, except glorified retextures of stuff I already have.
I would be happy with a substantial discount, in addition to the pre-order and other swag, for ESO Plus members that have been continually subscribed for the 12 months prior to purchase, or even a set percentage discount for each continuous prior month, up to 100%.
I don't mind paying for the Chapter. The problem is continuing to pay for ESO Plus. They really need to do something with Morrowind to make ESO Plus worth my time, and as this is a Chapter, more than the trifles they have been doing in Updates.
lordrichter wrote: »Could it not also be Greed that vast amounts of people want a good, produced by the hard work of others, be given to them for free? That, in my opinion, is far more greedy.
It occurred to me, with this comment, that perhaps we should step back into Algebra 1 for a moment, for perspective.
Let's see.... on November 21, 2013, I purchased the Imperial Edition of ESO for $80 USD. Then, when the game went live in March 2014, I began subbing. We'll call that April since it released at the end of the month. So, at $15 USD per month, since April 2014, I have spent $510 USD on subs alone. That's a combined investment of $590 USD.
Uh, April 2014 was part of the "free 30 days", which ended up being the "free 35 days". We did not need to start paying a subscription until like May 5. You need to subtract $15 from your subscription total.
lordrichter wrote: »2. The future DLC after Morrowind... I see we have a dungeon DLC and a "content" DLC (whatever that is, I presume some base game updates like Homestead or One Tamriel that are available to everyone anyway). Where are those dungeons going to be? In Morrowind? How much future DLC content, the stuff that would normally be available to ESO+ members, is going to remain locked behind Morrowind? At most we can expect 2 more DLC this year, both of which are likely only a little pricier (if at all) than a month's subscription. How do they intend to justify the other 10-11 months of me subbing before the next "chapter" comes out and I have to pay for that too?
At this time, there is no reason to believe that any of the coming DLC will require Morrowind.
lordrichter wrote: »This idea you have in your head that we want things for free is flawed and ignorant. We've already paid for Morrowind 3 times over, in addition to the base game and all DLC. It's not free... I already invested in it. The absolute simplest way to please ESO+ members is to make Morrowind purchasable by crowns - and then? Viola! Problem solved. I can just use my sub money to buy Morrowind. Divines know it's not getting me anything else, except glorified retextures of stuff I already have.
I would be happy with a substantial discount, in addition to the pre-order and other swag, for ESO Plus members that have been continually subscribed for the 12 months prior to purchase, or even a set percentage discount for each continuous prior month, up to 100%.
I don't mind paying for the Chapter. The problem is continuing to pay for ESO Plus. They really need to do something with Morrowind to make ESO Plus worth my time, and as this is a Chapter, more than the trifles they have been doing in Updates.