Stop calling it "Greed"

Ourorboros · February 2017

Dr_Resilient wrote: »

autumnsongbird wrote: »

vyndral13preub18_ESO wrote: »

Oh i don't know. It is almost like they held back stuff and didnt release it as dlc so they could package it all together, call it an expansion and sell it. That sort of sounds like greed. But fine, we will just call it goood business.

Given that it will be a year since the last dlc or 'expansion' I'm gonna agree with this. Subs haven't gotten what they were promised. Those DLCs? Where were they? Updates that everyone got anyway. Two dungeons. That is the dlc I guess. Pretty lame considering they promised more. It will be 1 year with no solid DLC when this is released. Right now, we are around eight months.

http://www.elderscrollsonline.com/en-us/news/post/2017/02/01/welcome-to-2017

To paraphrase what Frior says in link above: We found a new way to rip you off that sounds like we're doing you a favor.

From now til my subscription ends, I'm stuffing the heck out of my craft bag. If my sub no longer includes all content, it's just not worth it. Essentially, a sub is now just rented storage space.

jedtb16_ESO · February 2017

Jim_Pipp wrote: »

Dear people-who-argue-ZOS-is-a-business.

I'm hearing a lot about how businesses exist to make money... but ZOS is in the business of making one game for people to enjoy, and a quick look at the forums says they are not doing very well at it.

Some people seem very happy but a significant proportion of players are very unhappy. Simply not purchasing "rip-off" items from the crown store won't help the game survive in the long-term (I'll avoid using the word greedy as the OP asked, but I feel like that makes it harder to hear why players are so frustrated).

Personally I don't mind the price of the expansion, but I am horrified that a crown store manor will cost more than all of Morrowind (considering housing is the smaller quarterly update). Recently the Dro'mathra mount was controversial and the same arguments were made. There is an ongoing divide in the community about how ESO is paid for, and it needs to be resolved for the game to have a long and successful run.

[img][/img]via Imgflip Meme Generator

if you think this (or any game) forum represents a significant proportion of the people actually playing the game then you, sir, are deluded....

there are people posting doom and gloom here who do not play the game.....

Iselin · February 2017

We just need a new term for greed and then we'll all be happy... let's call it "Increased economic activity enabler." See? It's no longer one of the 7 deadly sins.

vyndral13preub18_ESO · February 2017

Iselin wrote: »

We just need a new term for greed and then we'll all be happy... let's call it "Increased economic activity enabler." See? It's no longer one of the 7 deadly sins.

What the hell? You cant just call it something else. I get the 7 deadly sins free with my subscription!

Oreyn_Bearclaw · February 2017

I think the reality of the situation is that if they stuck to the current DLC model, they would not be able to put out larger "chapters" like Morrowind. It costs money to generate content. Therefore, I am okay with it. Other things like crown crates I dont necessarily agree with, but as they are just cosmetic, well you dont have to buy them.

stewhead2ub17_ESO · February 2017

="Foxesz;3747340"]It should be called greed because all ESO+ subscribers got shafted by this. This is a poor excuse of an expansion and you know it. You need only compare it to other MMOs to know it's lackluster and better serves as part of the DLC plan you get for ESO+ subscribers. That was a good system and forcing people to dish out 40+ euros on top of the 180 euros a year is terrible.[/quote]

Jump to conclusions, much? It was only just announced and you have already decided it's worth. Hope you got it off your chest. I've been a subscriber since launch and I, in no way, feel deceived or cheated.

stewhead2ub17_ESO · February 2017

@Jim_Pipp "I'm hearing a lot about how businesses exist to make money... but ZOS is in the business of making one game for people to enjoy, and a quick look at the forums says they are not doing very well at it.

I don't think you could be more wrong. I'm going to assume you realize the majority of players just play and enjoy the game without posting on forums.

stewhead2ub17_ESO · February 2017

@Autolycus and @Silver_Strider:

My initial reaction was to respond to your respective rants, but life is too short. Hope you feel better.

Ourorboros · February 2017

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

I think the reality of the situation is that if they stuck to the current DLC model, they would not be able to put out larger "chapters" like Morrowind. It costs money to generate content. Therefore, I am okay with it. Other things like crown crates I dont necessarily agree with, but as they are just cosmetic, well you dont have to buy them.

How much money do you think it costs? If only 10% of players sub, zos earns $10 million/month just from subs. If zos is paying more than this for new content, I want a job there.

theivorykitty · February 2017

@ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_RichLambert

I was willing to give Zeni the benefit of the doubt, though I didn't feel good about the new DLC being called an 'expansion' and sold for additional money on top of ESO+. However, with the release of the new 'Welcome to 2017' article, I have to say, this whole situation a very raw deal for loyal ESO+ subscribers.

When we got ESO+ it was on the agreement with Zeni that we would be paying monthly for access to all game content. It was also promised that we would get new significant content every quarter. We naturally understand that to mean paid quarterly content since otherwise there would be no reason to pay monthly for an ESO+ subscription.

So when the new article says the following, I am concerned:

This year will feature four major events:

- Homestead, our player housing DLC, in February
- ESO: Morrowind, our first Chapter release, in June
- A dungeon-based DLC in the third quarter
- A content-based DLC in the fourth quarter

....

In the past, we've released four major updates per year, most with an associated DLC... This cadence is perfect for smaller additions, but we've found that this approach is so aggressive that it hamstrings us a bit when it comes to introducing updates larger than DLC – that is, updates that include new content as well as features like system changes, new abilities, and new classes. This is why we are evolving to deliver some updates as “Chapters," with the target of having one Chapter per year.

...

Expect ESO Chapters to introduce things like new game systems, new classes, and a ton of new content.

...

Each Chapter will be available at retail complete with new box art and packaging. It will contain the Chapter and will include the original game. All standard DLC will still be purchased from the Crown Store or be available to ESO Plus members as part of the subscription, but new Chapter content is available only via retail (including digital retail) game or upgrade purchase if you already own ESO.

...

Because we will be regularly introducing Chapters to ESO, we are going to make a small revision to our content delivery cadence, starting this year. We will continue to ship quarterly updates to the game – each with a base patch that has all the balance, quality of life, and bug fixes that you have come to expect. Additionally, we'll have a DLC in the first quarter of each year, a Chapter in the second quarter, a dungeon-based DLC in the third quarter, and a DLC in the 4th quarter.

The reason I am concerned is that ESO+ no longer means access to all content in the game, since they now plan on releasing an expansion which must be purchased separately, on top of ESO+, every year. It also means that the promise to ESO+ members that there would be a paid major content expansion (which ESO+ would give them access to) every quarter is now void. (And they haven't delivered on that promise for 2016, either).

Let's look at the current score card for ESO+ members.

Q2 2016 - paid content update, accessible by ESO+
Q3 2016 - paid content update (which was only 2 dungeons), accessible by ESO+
Q4 2016 - no paid content
Q1 2017 - no paid content (housing is released but accessible to everyone)
Q2 2017 - no paid content ('Chapter'/Expansion released but is extra purchase)
Q3 2017 - paid content update (which was only 2 dungeons), accessible by ESO+
Q4 2017 - paid content update (we don't have details on this, but assume it is paid and accessible by ESO+)

That's pretty bad, guys. It means that an ESO+ subscriber that paid some $170ish for a year of membership will not have any access to new paid content for the entire year from quarter 3 of 2016 through quarter 3 of 2017. That is, ESO+ members, during that time period, only paid for access to a craft bag.

And now they've decided to change the ESO+ deal via an article to make that okay, and to tell us that every year we'll need to spend another $40 - $100 on a new 'Chapter' on top of our ESO+ subscription.

I've got to say, I'm surprised by this and more than a little let down. ESO is my favorite game, it's my husband's and my hobby with each other, but this is really a let down. Maybe the price of ESO+ should be lowered since account holders now get substantially less than what they used to get for their membership?

Stanelis · February 2017

stewhead2ub17_ESO wrote: »

Turelus wrote: »

@stewhead2ub17_ESO
The crown store was released with a simple and consumer friendly model, you see what you're going to get, you assess if you have the RL funds to purchase that, you buy it if you like it and can afford it.

RNG boxes take that easy of use from the consumer and make it a gamble which forces players to spend more money on the items they want. There are threads on the forums here where others have done the maths of how many crates one would need to open to guarantee an apex mount.

Now all the items they will be releasing which people want are not a single payment for a nice cosmetic item they want, they must spent more money gambling on the chance of getting what they want and gaining a bunch of stuff they don't want.
This doesn't benefit the consumer who wants the apex mount, it only benefits the people who are getting more RL cash as players funnel it into buying crowns to keep rolling the dice on the item they want.

It's a scummy and offensive business model.

@Turelus : I see your point. But again these are all choices the consumer makes. We shall have to agree to disagree!

Actually the loot crate mechanics are intended to make money from weakly minded people who cannot tell they are spending money on stuff that has no intrinsic commercial value. In that sense it is very greedy.

Also, maybe morrowind will be amazing and will have a lot of content, but the fact pre order have been started without even a full feature list of the expansion should induce wariness to the potential buyer.

Merlin13KAGL · February 2017

They could split the difference and rework ESO+

Give you the option to buy DLC/Expansion outright (not arguing semantics here, because that's all is.) or if you're ESO+, sample the content for a limited period of time with the option to buy it at discount.

The big draw with ESO+ is that you get to sample the content first and ZoS still gets paid something in the meantime.

With this, it's a gamble, because good, bad, or indifferent, you're stuck with it once the purchase has been made.

It would keep ESO+ from exclusively funding new content (90 days then you have to buy @ discount) but would keep people from potentially getting burned via buying it outright.

All sides would benefit that way.

SodanTok · February 2017

No, lets call it what it is. GREED
Greedy people wanting full access to whole new big expansion for merely ~12 bucks a month.
Greedy people wanting the most flashy and cool mounts/costumes/houses for cheap.

Iselin · February 2017

sodantokb16_ESO wrote: »

No, lets call it what it is. GREED
Greedy people wanting full access to whole new big expansion for merely ~12 bucks a month.

That's called playing by their rules, They started this whole "get all DLC free with sub" thing. We didn't.

To anyone other than a blind fanboy re-branding largish DLC as "Chapters" or "Expansions" IS a change.

SodanTok · February 2017

Iselin wrote: »

sodantokb16_ESO wrote: »

No, lets call it what it is. GREED
Greedy people wanting full access to whole new big expansion for merely ~12 bucks a month.

That's called playing by their rules, They started this whole "get all DLC free with sub" thing. We didn't.

To anyone other than a blind fanboy re-branding largish DLC as "Chapters" or "Expansions" IS a change.

But you are getting every DLC NOW. Once Morrowind drops you will be getting everything but Morrowind. If that is not enough, cancel your sub. Wanting to spend less money is as greedy or more as wanting to earn more.

Kendo12 · February 2017

Juhasow wrote: »

I dont understand. Zenimax showed lot of mercy by just making Morrowind expansion 1 time purchase and not forcing us to also have ESO+ membership active to enter there....

They won't do that, this game failed as a sub only model

austinwalter87ub17_ESO · February 2017

Graydon wrote: »

If $40 is unaffordable then it's time to re-evaluate and make some serious life changes.

If the $40 is all about principle, then don't buy the game.

That will demonstrate your displeasure wiih ZOS.

I've never seen such a pile of beggars demanding the fruits and efforts of somebody else's labor for free.

I love free market capitalists.

Iselin · February 2017

sodantokb16_ESO wrote: »

Iselin wrote: »

sodantokb16_ESO wrote: »

No, lets call it what it is. GREED
Greedy people wanting full access to whole new big expansion for merely ~12 bucks a month.

That's called playing by their rules, They started this whole "get all DLC free with sub" thing. We didn't.

To anyone other than a blind fanboy re-branding largish DLC as "Chapters" or "Expansions" IS a change.

But you are getting every DLC NOW. Once Morrowind drops you will be getting everything but Morrowind. If that is not enough, cancel your sub. Wanting to spend less money is as greedy or more as wanting to earn more.

Sub is already cancelled as of yesterday. The $$ is not an issue. The CHANGE to the model using weasle words like calling all Orsinium-sized DLC "Chapters" IS.

AlMcFly · February 2017

Could it not also be Greed that vast amounts of people want a good, produced by the hard work of others, be given to them for free? That, in my opinion, is far more greedy.

Iselin · February 2017

AlMcFly wrote: »

Could it not also be Greed that vast amounts of people want a good, produced by the hard work of others, be given to them for free? That, in my opinion, is far more greedy.

Subs were free? I'll have to call Visa right away and ask them to look into those recurring charges from the past 3 years... thanks!

sirston · February 2017

sodantokb16_ESO wrote: »

Iselin wrote: »

sodantokb16_ESO wrote: »

No, lets call it what it is. GREED
Greedy people wanting full access to whole new big expansion for merely ~12 bucks a month.

That's called playing by their rules, They started this whole "get all DLC free with sub" thing. We didn't.

To anyone other than a blind fanboy re-branding largish DLC as "Chapters" or "Expansions" IS a change.

But you are getting every DLC NOW. Once Morrowind drops you will be getting everything but Morrowind. If that is not enough, cancel your sub. Wanting to spend less money is as greedy or more as wanting to earn more.

It's not the fact that spending $40 for a new "chapter" is greedy Ive spent more on other games "Chapters"

It's not the fact sitting on content that was made from quakecon 2014 and Alpha then now releasing it is Greedy.
It's not the fact that people who are spending $100's of dollars for ESO+ Just got shafted for paying for maybe 3 dungeons and two Zones and was funding this you so called new "chapters".

What it is called being a

Move by dev's because constantly go back on your word is outright wrong, I don't care if you buy it or not. It's just the fact that doing shady business practice needs to be called that Shady Business.

Now if you're going to WhiteKnight a shady business and called people reverse greedy for Idk asking for a fair share of focused business since they are spending more time on the crown store and these Chapters Now. Maybe Just maybe they should drop the price ESO+ from $15 to $5 since I will get all the former DLC's and maybe a new dungeon every 6 months.

FleetwoodSmack · February 2017

Iselin wrote: »

AlMcFly wrote: »

Could it not also be Greed that vast amounts of people want a good, produced by the hard work of others, be given to them for free? That, in my opinion, is far more greedy.

Subs were free? I'll have to call Visa right away and ask them to look into those recurring charges from the past 3 years... thanks!

That's something that people aren't wanting to realize, and probably don't sub themselves.

Now those that do sub and defend it? Probably haven't been subbing all that long and those who have understand and sympathize while disagreeing. However this whole political crap injected into the argument like a lot of people are doing? I'd love to see them manage a playerbase using the same mentality.

SodanTok · February 2017

Iselin wrote: »

sodantokb16_ESO wrote: »

Iselin wrote: »

sodantokb16_ESO wrote: »

No, lets call it what it is. GREED
Greedy people wanting full access to whole new big expansion for merely ~12 bucks a month.

That's called playing by their rules, They started this whole "get all DLC free with sub" thing. We didn't.

To anyone other than a blind fanboy re-branding largish DLC as "Chapters" or "Expansions" IS a change.

But you are getting every DLC NOW. Once Morrowind drops you will be getting everything but Morrowind. If that is not enough, cancel your sub. Wanting to spend less money is as greedy or more as wanting to earn more.

Sub is already cancelled as of yesterday. The $$ is not an issue. The CHANGE to the model using weasle words like calling all Orsinium-sized DLC "Chapters" IS.

They didnt use weasle words. They changed the model. They call it chapter, or expansion because it is something different than regular DLC. If you dont like that, call it... big dlc. Big DLC that would have NEVER EXISTED if everybody could just get it for free to their 12eur sub.

Everybody would sub for month to finish Morrowind. Why would you pay 40 for what you can finish in 12.

Iselin · February 2017

sodantokb16_ESO wrote: »

Iselin wrote: »

sodantokb16_ESO wrote: »

Iselin wrote: »

sodantokb16_ESO wrote: »

No, lets call it what it is. GREED
Greedy people wanting full access to whole new big expansion for merely ~12 bucks a month.

That's called playing by their rules, They started this whole "get all DLC free with sub" thing. We didn't.

To anyone other than a blind fanboy re-branding largish DLC as "Chapters" or "Expansions" IS a change.

But you are getting every DLC NOW. Once Morrowind drops you will be getting everything but Morrowind. If that is not enough, cancel your sub. Wanting to spend less money is as greedy or more as wanting to earn more.

Sub is already cancelled as of yesterday. The $$ is not an issue. The CHANGE to the model using weasle words like calling all Orsinium-sized DLC "Chapters" IS.

They didnt use weasle words. They changed the model. They call it chapter, or expansion because it is something different than regular DLC. If you dont like that, call it... big dlc. Big DLC that would have NEVER EXISTED if everybody could just get it for free to their 12eur sub.

I must be mistaken about Orsinium then. Could have sworn that was a Big DLC... I probably dreamed it.

Stanelis · February 2017

AlMcFly wrote: »

Could it not also be Greed that vast amounts of people want a good, produced by the hard work of others, be given to them for free? That, in my opinion, is far more greedy.

I don't think anybody want to play the content for free, that's beside the point. The issue is that morrowind is being called an expansion and sold at a higher price than previous DLC while we do not have any evidences currently that there will be more content in that patch.

Also the price seems to be a slap in the face of long term subscribers and players, who paid the game full price and even more with the subscription. 60 $ for people who don't have the game is ok and a good value. 40 $ for people who paid 60 $ for the base game and then several month of subscription seems to be a rip off.

Jim_Pipp · February 2017

stewhead2ub17_ESO wrote: »

@Jim_Pipp "I'm hearing a lot about how businesses exist to make money... but ZOS is in the business of making one game for people to enjoy, and a quick look at the forums says they are not doing very well at it.

I don't think you could be more wrong. I'm going to assume you realize the majority of players just play and enjoy the game without posting on forums.

@stewhead2ub17_ESO I am not trying to argue with you but i dont understand what you are objecting too. In my post (the next line after your quote) I state that many players are happy, but a proportion aren't.

What I was trying to put across is that there are a range of opinions, and the future success of eso depends on keeping as many people happy (and spending) as possible. My point is that we need to listen to people who are unhappy and not dismiss each other with simplistic answers like 'it's a business!' or 'just don't buy them' or 'stop saying greedy'. So in the spirit of constructive discussion, what do you disagree with?

AlMcFly · February 2017

IndyWendieGo wrote: »

Iselin wrote: »

AlMcFly wrote: »

Could it not also be Greed that vast amounts of people want a good, produced by the hard work of others, be given to them for free? That, in my opinion, is far more greedy.

Subs were free? I'll have to call Visa right away and ask them to look into those recurring charges from the past 3 years... thanks!

That's something that people aren't wanting to realize, and probably don't sub themselves.

Now those that do sub and defend it? Probably haven't been subbing all that long and those who have understand and sympathize while disagreeing. However this whole political crap injected into the argument like a lot of people are doing? I'd love to see them manage a playerbase using the same mentality.

Considering you get 1500 Crowns per month, a value of $15, as result of your $15 per month subscription, YES, everything outside of that 1500 Crowns is essentially given to you for free. The craft bag is free. DLC's are free. Yes, all of these complaint threads are asking to receive Morrowind for free. Your argument is moot.

SodanTok · February 2017

Iselin wrote: »

sodantokb16_ESO wrote: »

Iselin wrote: »

sodantokb16_ESO wrote: »

Iselin wrote: »

sodantokb16_ESO wrote: »

No, lets call it what it is. GREED
Greedy people wanting full access to whole new big expansion for merely ~12 bucks a month.

That's called playing by their rules, They started this whole "get all DLC free with sub" thing. We didn't.

To anyone other than a blind fanboy re-branding largish DLC as "Chapters" or "Expansions" IS a change.

But you are getting every DLC NOW. Once Morrowind drops you will be getting everything but Morrowind. If that is not enough, cancel your sub. Wanting to spend less money is as greedy or more as wanting to earn more.

Sub is already cancelled as of yesterday. The $$ is not an issue. The CHANGE to the model using weasle words like calling all Orsinium-sized DLC "Chapters" IS.

They didnt use weasle words. They changed the model. They call it chapter, or expansion because it is something different than regular DLC. If you dont like that, call it... big dlc. Big DLC that would have NEVER EXISTED if everybody could just get it for free to their 12eur sub.

I must be mistaken about Orsinium then. Could have sworn that was a Big DLC... I probably dreamed it.

It was big dlc. So instead of being happy you got big dlc, instead every big dlc is now supposed to be given you cheaply? That is greedy.

sirston wrote: »

sodantokb16_ESO wrote: »

Iselin wrote: »

sodantokb16_ESO wrote: »

No, lets call it what it is. GREED
Greedy people wanting full access to whole new big expansion for merely ~12 bucks a month.

That's called playing by their rules, They started this whole "get all DLC free with sub" thing. We didn't.

To anyone other than a blind fanboy re-branding largish DLC as "Chapters" or "Expansions" IS a change.

But you are getting every DLC NOW. Once Morrowind drops you will be getting everything but Morrowind. If that is not enough, cancel your sub. Wanting to spend less money is as greedy or more as wanting to earn more.

It's not the fact that spending $40 for a new "chapter" is greedy Ive spent more on other games "Chapters"
It's not the fact sitting on content that was made from quakecon 2014 and Alpha then now releasing it is Greedy.
It's not the fact that people who are spending $100's of dollars for ESO+ Just got shafted for paying for maybe 3 dungeons and two Zones and was funding this you so called new "chapters".

What it is called being a
Move by dev's because constantly go back on your word is outright wrong, I don't care if you buy it or not. It's just the fact that doing shady business practice needs to be called that Shady Business.

Now if you're going to WhiteKnight a shady business and called people reverse greedy for Idk asking for a fair share of focused business since they are spending more time on the crown store and these Chapters Now. Maybe Just maybe they should drop the price ESO+ from $15 to $5 since I will get all the former DLC's and maybe a new dungeon every 6 months.

Selling stuff or changing revenue models isnt shady business. You deserve to experience real shady business so you could stop talking bs like this.
Also demanding sub price change is classic greed move.

//EDIT:
Sorry, your reply (below) to this post is so stupid I decided it does not warrant reply.

sirston · February 2017

sodantokb16_ESO wrote: »

Iselin wrote: »

sodantokb16_ESO wrote: »

Iselin wrote: »

sodantokb16_ESO wrote: »

Iselin wrote: »

sodantokb16_ESO wrote: »

No, lets call it what it is. GREED
Greedy people wanting full access to whole new big expansion for merely ~12 bucks a month.

That's called playing by their rules, They started this whole "get all DLC free with sub" thing. We didn't.

To anyone other than a blind fanboy re-branding largish DLC as "Chapters" or "Expansions" IS a change.

But you are getting every DLC NOW. Once Morrowind drops you will be getting everything but Morrowind. If that is not enough, cancel your sub. Wanting to spend less money is as greedy or more as wanting to earn more.

Sub is already cancelled as of yesterday. The $$ is not an issue. The CHANGE to the model using weasle words like calling all Orsinium-sized DLC "Chapters" IS.

They didnt use weasle words. They changed the model. They call it chapter, or expansion because it is something different than regular DLC. If you dont like that, call it... big dlc. Big DLC that would have NEVER EXISTED if everybody could just get it for free to their 12eur sub.

I must be mistaken about Orsinium then. Could have sworn that was a Big DLC... I probably dreamed it.

It was big dlc. So instead of being happy you got big dlc, instead every big dlc is now supposed to be given you cheaply? That is greedy.

sirston wrote: »

sodantokb16_ESO wrote: »

Iselin wrote: »

sodantokb16_ESO wrote: »

No, lets call it what it is. GREED
Greedy people wanting full access to whole new big expansion for merely ~12 bucks a month.

That's called playing by their rules, They started this whole "get all DLC free with sub" thing. We didn't.

To anyone other than a blind fanboy re-branding largish DLC as "Chapters" or "Expansions" IS a change.

But you are getting every DLC NOW. Once Morrowind drops you will be getting everything but Morrowind. If that is not enough, cancel your sub. Wanting to spend less money is as greedy or more as wanting to earn more.

It's not the fact that spending $40 for a new "chapter" is greedy Ive spent more on other games "Chapters"
It's not the fact sitting on content that was made from quakecon 2014 and Alpha then now releasing it is Greedy.
It's not the fact that people who are spending $100's of dollars for ESO+ Just got shafted for paying for maybe 3 dungeons and two Zones and was funding this you so called new "chapters".

What it is called being a
Move by dev's because constantly go back on your word is outright wrong, I don't care if you buy it or not. It's just the fact that doing shady business practice needs to be called that Shady Business.

Now if you're going to WhiteKnight a shady business and called people reverse greedy for Idk asking for a fair share of focused business since they are spending more time on the crown store and these Chapters Now. Maybe Just maybe they should drop the price ESO+ from $15 to $5 since I will get all the former DLC's and maybe a new dungeon every 6 months.

Selling stuff or changing revenue models isnt shady business. You deserve to experience real shady business so you could stop talking bs like this.
Also demanding sub price change is classic greed move.

here I found an image your descirbing to me about yourself

Also you don't pay $15 a month for a magazine company to have them ship you the typical magazine, then change it to a where you have to pay $40 for a real magazine while you just get old magazines from last year now.
And yes I know how shady business work's I've been involved with hedge funds in the past.

vyndral13preub18_ESO · February 2017

Kendo12 wrote: »

Juhasow wrote: »

I dont understand. Zenimax showed lot of mercy by just making Morrowind expansion 1 time purchase and not forcing us to also have ESO+ membership active to enter there....

They won't do that, this game failed as a sub only model

Not that I dont enjoy the game, but Given the recent change. I tend to think the game is failing at whatever model it chooses.