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Stop calling it "Greed"
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RinaldoGandolphi✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Look im not going to get into the argument, or greed, or whatever, My reasons for not getting the new content is soley financial due to IRL medical costs, i'll get to play it eventually I hope.
However their is a misconception that DLC and Expansions are seperate and that is NOT true.
Every addon to a game was called an expansion in the 80's and the 90's. In the mid 2000's the gaming industry began to re-name expansions as DLC. The best examples of this is Skyrim Dawnguard and Dragonborn DLC. They were huge, and many refered to them as expansions, but Bethesda called them DLC
Fallout 4 Nukaworld and Far Harbor are huge additions to Fallout 4 they would ahve been called expansions in the old days, yet they were called and sold as DLC.
DLC is the modern term for expansion
Wikipedia states:
"Downloadable content (DLC) is additional content created for a released video game. It is distributed through the Internet by the game's official publisher. Downloadable content can be of several types, ranging from aesthetic outfit changes to a new, extensive storyline, similar to an expansion pack. As such, DLC may add new game modes, objects, levels, challenges or other features to a complete, already released game."
Morrowind adds new features and things to an "Already released game:" You can not play Morrowind without the base game. It is a DLC by definition to the game industry since 2006. Game, set and match for definition.
Im only here to correct the definition. DLC = Expansion and Expansion = DLC. Its just a re-naming of a term. Just like our Government in the USA re-named illegal immigrants to undocumented worker...its the same thing, they just put a more modern name on it.
DLC is the same thing...DLC is a modern name for expansion. As i said im just here to put the correct definition in place and dispel falsehoods being claimed.
As for this new piece of content, ZOS is justified in charging a price for it if thats what they want to do. I/you/ may or may not agree but they can set their business polices as they see fit. I don't think greed is the correct term to use. I try to reasonable. One could argue that about Crown Crates, but I don't think over this content. They feel they want to charge for it for whatever reason and thats their right to. Consumers have the right to buy or not buy etc...so its a two way street.
Good dayEdited by RinaldoGandolphi on February 1, 2017 3:02PMRinaldo Gandolphi-Breton Sorcerer Daggerfall Covenant
Juste Gandolphi Dark Elf Templar Daggerfall Covenant
Richter Gandolphi - Dark Elf Dragonknight Daggerfall Covenant
Mathias Gandolphi - Breton Nightblade Daggerfall Covenant
RinaldoGandolphi - High Elf Sorcerer Aldmeri Dominion
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BKTHNDR✭✭✭
I understand and I agree with that, I am perfectly fine with the Crown Store, what I am getting at is the Crates only.Some of the Crown Store choices were greed. I don't believe RNG boxes (Crown Crates) have ever been in the benefit of the consumer.
The expansion is normal for this genre and not really greedy, people are just using that to help augment their argument against the change in content accessibility.
The crown store items are also all optional. In no way does anyone have an advantage over anyone else by having an expensive elk mount. Everything in the crown store helps the development team continue to support the game that you enjoy.
A buy what you want, when you want system is fair on everyone and lets people spend their money how they wish, RNG boxes in games are playing on players desires for one or two items but forcing them to spend more than those items are worth to obtain them due to a majority of the items being useless (consumables in ESO's case).
And all of that is the player's choice to engage. We're not forced to buy crates. I've bought several of them. One: To support the development team through dollars and Two: because I wanted a shot at one of the lightning mounts (I have 2 of them). You can't fault the development team for offering aesthetic items in ways that will allow them to make a profit and continue to support the game. I get that it would be easier for us, the consumer, to just buy what we want. But from a business perspective, that works better for the developer and does not negative affect the gameplay for anyone, which I have no problem with.0 -
WolfgangArmadeus✭✭✭OP
I would agree with you if this was an "expansion" in the true sense of the word, but its not.
It is "30 hours" of added gameplay, 1 raid and new class (time sink)
It is the same size as orsinium but cost $40 and will lock subscribers out of future content if they dont knock down the $40 pay wall.
It is most certainly greed.
Any self respecting development company would make quality content and set it at a reasonable price without taking advantage of their fans.
Square Enix is a great example on the MMO side of it.
CD Projekt Red is a great example on the solo RPG side of it.
Both release massive amounts of content for a reasonable price.
These companies are not bound by corporate investors, they respect themselves and their fans and they love what they do.
Zenimax is starting to look more like Activision, Konami and EA.
Just doing whatever it takes to milk money from their fans.
4 -
Gorgoneus✭✭✭Nice, first they pissed out people who bought original game but have no ESO+, and there is alot of self-called palladins of ZoS who protecting them by a lot of stupid arguments and playing with words. Now they pissed out ESO+ members as well, and still to many lakeys and handdogs who playing with words^ ZoS told us about free DLC's eccess for ESO+? but Morrowing is not DLC this is expansion.
Looks like I need to go on the street and kill a bunch of people, because this is not murdering but just outliving, there is no laws against "outliving" people.1 -
Turelus✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭
I understand and I agree with that, I am perfectly fine with the Crown Store, what I am getting at is the Crates only.Some of the Crown Store choices were greed. I don't believe RNG boxes (Crown Crates) have ever been in the benefit of the consumer.
The expansion is normal for this genre and not really greedy, people are just using that to help augment their argument against the change in content accessibility.
The crown store items are also all optional. In no way does anyone have an advantage over anyone else by having an expensive elk mount. Everything in the crown store helps the development team continue to support the game that you enjoy.
A buy what you want, when you want system is fair on everyone and lets people spend their money how they wish, RNG boxes in games are playing on players desires for one or two items but forcing them to spend more than those items are worth to obtain them due to a majority of the items being useless (consumables in ESO's case).
And all of that is the player's choice to engage. We're not forced to buy crates. I've bought several of them. One: To support the development team through dollars and Two: because I wanted a shot at one of the lightning mounts (I have 2 of them). You can't fault the development team for offering aesthetic items in ways that will allow them to make a profit and continue to support the game. I get that it would be easier for us, the consumer, to just buy what we want. But from a business perspective, that works better for the developer and does not negative affect the gameplay for anyone, which I have no problem with.
Again, it's fine to say players can choose to engage or not in these. However players are forced to engage with them to get items they desire. The "you don't have to" argument was fine when it was a standard "buy x or don't" but now all the players who were happy to buy x have to gamble and pay more for x.
I am fine with them profiting and supporting the game. I have paid sub all of the time I've played, I have purchased numerous crown packs, I purchased the new expansion yesterday. I don't mind paying ZOS. What I mind is being made to jump through hoops and spend more money to attain items which they could have released as a "buy if you want it, don't if you don't" method.
Now if I want to buy an item, I AM forced to buy crates. It makes ZOS seem greedy and continues to build on the feeling they only care about money and not their consumers, which I don't believe is entirely true but somewhere there is someone within ZOS who feels making more bucks is better than the integrity of offering a fair and friendly cash shop to their consumers.@Turelus - EU PC Megaserver
"Don't count on others for help. In the end each of us is in this alone. The survivors are those who know how to look out for themselves."0 -
Hand_Bacon✭✭✭✭✭Does it matter? DLC or Expansion
They are releasing a large amount of content for purchase only. You aren't going to convince them to do otherwise or are you just trying to ruffle feathers or *** and moan? Not that you don't have every right to *** and moan or rant and rave or cry foul, but it does get tiresome.
If you think it really matters that much, get together and start a lawsuit or go home.
#AlmostGood@ESO3 -
Autolycus✭✭✭✭✭
✭stewhead2ub17_ESO wrote: »I understand why some people are ranting and raving about the expansion announcement. I also understand that we are from a myriad of economic backgrounds. But because a company wishes to turn a profit from their product and hard work does not make them "Greedy". If you think companies launch these AAA titles merely out of a passion or labor of love then you are mistaken and delusional.
Yes, in fact there is much more to it than greed. Don't preach about how people's opinions are wrong if you aren't even going to address the business model, because all you're really doing here is fueling the fire by simply saying, "you guys are wrong." If you think people see this as greed simply because they explicitly believe ZOS should be doing this out of goodwill alone, then you are equally, if not moreso, ignorant than those you're preaching against.
It is not uncommon for a game to require a sub and to release an expansion every year or so. Oh wow, let's get pissy with people because you think they just don't want to buy the expansion. Again, ignorance. I've been playing MMOs for years and years, releasing an expansion, as a concept in and of itself, is not greed. Advertising for 2 years that ESO+ would grant access to all future DLC, then dropping a big "surprise expansion" on everyone that is irrefutably a paywall for everyone, including those who have loyally subscribed under the aforementioned pretense... now that is greed.
They restructured the model in order to guarantee cash flows. As an investor (which I am, my job is to analyze companies and determine investments), I deem this a poor practice. Companies that pick away at customer loyalty for short term revenues are not adding value to their product or service that will ultimately lead to a productive growth environment. It, in fact, stifles growth and leads to customer dissatisfaction. ESO+ is an example of a long-term, value-added pricing model. It ensures that customers consistently see value added to their price point without escalating the price; the longer one remains subbed, the more value they get out of it by accumulating content, materials (craft bag), crowns, and a marginal boost to experience gain, which ultimately accumulates to equal higher CP characters and/or more max-level characters.
If you want to really open up the topic and nit-pick at the details, then let's get to it. I can list off a plethora of reasons for why your narrow-focused rant about companies deserving profit is nonsense. New flash: ZOS has realized high profit margins for years now. They've had excess cash flow since before this game went pay-to-play. Yes, they had excess revenue, which for those of you who aren't privy to investor lingo - that means profit. They have profited from us for years, long before the crown store, and long before expansions. But, just to be clear on the matter, there's nothing wrong with that - a game as well-developed as ESO should be profitable. The "expansion" is intended to generate even more profit - while the company is already profiting to a large extent - and if wanting more when you already have plenty is not greed, then I think you need to look up what greed means.
We should call this what it actually is: a new Adventure Zone. Remember those? They were supposed to be released as value-added content, for no additional charge, since waaay back in vanilla ESO. Even the pay-to-play model didn't change that; they still said they'd be releasing adventure zones regularly, and the way to skirt paying more for those was to sub, period. I see a lot of people saying "WoW does it so quit crying." Well you know what? Diablo III is still releasing expansions for no additional charge. I'm pretty sure they're releasing a new class this month, in fact.
That's not to say there's anything wrong with an expansion. But they backed us into a corner deliberately because they knew that, regardless of whether or not we chose to subscribe or purchase DLC outright, we would have no choice but to climb the paywall to keep playing. We were told we'd have access to all future DLC... good job ZOS, way to spin that one into an "expansion" to skirt your own system. You can't have a value-added product or service if you require additional payment. And if I've learned anything about long-term profitable business strategy, it's the value-added and customer-focused models are better for long-term profitability than short-term, under-handed profit drivers.
I hear there will be another announcement pertaining to ESO+ members. We shall see what they have in store. Sometimes things sound good on paper, and result in unforseen backlash. I love ESO and want it to succeed. If I didn't want to support it financially, I wouldn't have paid for this game 5x over already just in subs, not accounting for any other purchases. They've been consistently releasing base game updates that have no real content. This is the first "real" content in.... a year? And every aspect of it requires additional payments.Edited by Autolycus on February 1, 2017 3:37PM3 -
timidobserver✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭I personally don't mind paying and I am not bothered by it at all. It's to be expected from any corporate entity.
That said, yeh what they are doing qualifies as greed. ESO+ should deliver access to all content releases regardless of what their marketing team decides to call the content (patch, update, dlc, expansion, ect.) Maybe my mind will be changed once they release more details, but so far the warden class is the only thing that separates this dlc from any of the other dlcs.Edited by timidobserver on February 1, 2017 3:31PMV16 Uriel Stormblessed EP Magicka Templar(main)
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V16 Redacted Ep Stam Sorc
V16 Insolent EP Magicka Sorc(retired)
V16 Jed I Nyte EP Stamina NB(retired)0 -
NeillMcAttack✭✭✭✭✭
✭Turn a profit from their "hard work"!?!?
50 bucks for a mount...!!!
Not to mention the endless issues that female toons seem to have fitting into MANY of the costumes!!
Sure, it's not greed. It's capitalism. And players are being capitalized on.PC EU - NoCP PvP, is real PvPTiidehunter Nord StamDK EP PvP MainLegion Commander Tresdin Stamplar DC PvE MainSephirith Altmer MagPlar EP Gondar the Bounty Hunter Khajiit StamBlade DCThe Dirge Redguard StamNecro EP Disruptor Stormcrafter Nord StamSorc ADLone Druid Bosmer Stam Warden EP Necro-Phos Argonian MagBlade AD@ McAttack in gamePlayed since beta, and then on console at release, until the game became unplayable on console.1 -
Paincake✭✭The_Protagonist wrote: »Some of the Crown Store choices were greed. I don't believe RNG boxes (Crown Crates) have ever been in the benefit of the consumer.
Anyone who chose to purchase said boxes cannot claim they were "greedy" because they willingly engaged in a contract (and I've seen an awful lot of lightning mounts running around). Whether or not something benefits the consumer is a judgement to be made on a per-consumer basis because it's ultimately the consumer that decides, not you or I. Stop acting judgmental and let individuals make their own decisions / judgments.
https://blog.hubspot.com/marketing/psychology-marketers-revealing-principles-human-behavior#sm.0001ja5e2s783cuhqz521r2yxihms
Choice has become more of an illusion nowadays for the chap that is not always on guard.
Why on earth would someone ever not be "on guard?" I expect advertisers and merchants to act in self interest by spinning and making things sound better than they are. Language matters. Advertising and marketing are nothing but the principles of propaganda applied to consumer markets.2 -
Paincake✭✭
I understand and I agree with that, I am perfectly fine with the Crown Store, what I am getting at is the Crates only.Some of the Crown Store choices were greed. I don't believe RNG boxes (Crown Crates) have ever been in the benefit of the consumer.
The expansion is normal for this genre and not really greedy, people are just using that to help augment their argument against the change in content accessibility.
The crown store items are also all optional. In no way does anyone have an advantage over anyone else by having an expensive elk mount. Everything in the crown store helps the development team continue to support the game that you enjoy.
A buy what you want, when you want system is fair on everyone and lets people spend their money how they wish, RNG boxes in games are playing on players desires for one or two items but forcing them to spend more than those items are worth to obtain them due to a majority of the items being useless (consumables in ESO's case).
And all of that is the player's choice to engage. We're not forced to buy crates. I've bought several of them. One: To support the development team through dollars and Two: because I wanted a shot at one of the lightning mounts...
This last part is key. You get what some others don't. What one "DESIRES" or how much one "WANTS" a crate mount has nothing to do with what you're purchasing. You're not purchasing a crate, you're purchasing a lottery ticket... a spin of the wheel. I'm not a gambler, so I didn't buy any crates; easy peasy.0 -
Turelus✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭The_Protagonist wrote: »Some of the Crown Store choices were greed. I don't believe RNG boxes (Crown Crates) have ever been in the benefit of the consumer.
Anyone who chose to purchase said boxes cannot claim they were "greedy" because they willingly engaged in a contract (and I've seen an awful lot of lightning mounts running around). Whether or not something benefits the consumer is a judgement to be made on a per-consumer basis because it's ultimately the consumer that decides, not you or I. Stop acting judgmental and let individuals make their own decisions / judgments.
https://blog.hubspot.com/marketing/psychology-marketers-revealing-principles-human-behavior#sm.0001ja5e2s783cuhqz521r2yxihms
Choice has become more of an illusion nowadays for the chap that is not always on guard.
Why on earth would someone ever not be "on guard?" I expect advertisers and merchants to act in self interest by spinning and making things sound better than they are. Language matters. Advertising and marketing are nothing but the principles of propaganda applied to consumer markets.
I think one of the issues with our world as a whole right now is people are no longer on guard, they accept things as fact and truth far too easily. However that's a debate we really don't want to get into...@Turelus - EU PC Megaserver
"Don't count on others for help. In the end each of us is in this alone. The survivors are those who know how to look out for themselves."1 -
Paincake✭✭The_Protagonist wrote: »Some of the Crown Store choices were greed. I don't believe RNG boxes (Crown Crates) have ever been in the benefit of the consumer.
Anyone who chose to purchase said boxes cannot claim they were "greedy" because they willingly engaged in a contract (and I've seen an awful lot of lightning mounts running around). Whether or not something benefits the consumer is a judgement to be made on a per-consumer basis because it's ultimately the consumer that decides, not you or I. Stop acting judgmental and let individuals make their own decisions / judgments.
https://blog.hubspot.com/marketing/psychology-marketers-revealing-principles-human-behavior#sm.0001ja5e2s783cuhqz521r2yxihms
Choice has become more of an illusion nowadays for the chap that is not always on guard.
Why on earth would someone ever not be "on guard?" I expect advertisers and merchants to act in self interest by spinning and making things sound better than they are. Language matters. Advertising and marketing are nothing but the principles of propaganda applied to consumer markets.
I think one of the issues with our world as a whole right now is people are no longer on guard, they accept things as fact and truth far too easily. However that's a debate we really don't want to get into...
On this much we can agree. I think far too many are intellectually lazy. But that isn't my problem and as a result, I don't care. I hear commercials saying "BUY ____ NOW!" and all I think is 'stop telling me what to do. I'll do what I want, when I want; nothing less, nothing more.' Everything I do or don't do is calculated to be in my self interest, not the interest of the entity trying to manipulate me.1 -
imredneckson✭✭✭✭✭stewhead2ub17_ESO wrote: »I understand why some people are ranting and raving about the expansion announcement. I also understand that we are from a myriad of economic backgrounds. But because a company wishes to turn a profit from their product and hard work does not make them "Greedy". If you think companies launch these AAA titles merely out of a passion or labor of love then you are mistaken and delusional. Ultimately it is up to me or you to decide to pay for the product or not. The many hours I've enjoyed ESO and the quality I feel they've provided have kept me a subscriber and I will, no doubt, purchase the expansion. Expansions are large and cost $$ to produce. I have np whatsoever supporting this. See you in Morrowind!
I agree with this.Legions of Mordor Guild Officer
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Silver_Strider✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭When you pay for my expansion, you can tell me what I can and can't call ZO$.
Right now, I feel that ZO$ has been pushing harder and harder to nickel and dime every last cent that they can from ESO without giving fair compensation in return. Balance and patches are underwhelming as a whole given how infrequent they are and what they do give is laughably small and buggy. Exploits run rampant with cheaters around every corner with ZO$ doing almost nothing about it. Sure they hotfixed vMoL, yet how many of the people that exploited this were punished and stripped of their ill gotten gains?
How ANYONE can try and defend ZO$ at this point is just beyond me because they just continue to disappoint time and time again.
I wanted to like ESO. I had originally quit FF14 to come to ESO 2 years ago so that I could fully support this game instead. Now, I'm back with FF14 because I felt that it was actually worth the $15 sub. I don't need some incentive to pay that $15 a month like ESO does with it's ESO+ perks because I honestly feel like I'm getting my money's worth. The money feels like it's actually going towards the game, with frequent balance fixes, patches that actually add a good bit of new content on a regular basis, a good story, I could go on.
I'll continue to roam the forums, just in the absolute smallest of chances that ZO$ will change, that they will do ESO justice and make this game great, that this game finally lives up to the potential it could but I honestly feel that the chance of that happening is about as good as obtaining World Peace.Edited by Silver_Strider on February 1, 2017 5:34PMArgonian forever2 -
sirston✭✭✭✭✭Hand_Bacon wrote: »Does it matter? DLC or Expansion
They are releasing a large amount of content for purchase only. You aren't going to convince them to do otherwise or are you just trying to ruffle feathers or *** and moan? Not that you don't have every right to *** and moan or rant and rave or cry foul, but it does get tiresome.
If you think it really matters that much, get together and start a lawsuit or go home.
it does! if you have enough people agree with you and Not buy it Money makes Dent''s Not Words.Whitestakes Revenge
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Chadak✭✭✭✭✭I'd rather shell out for an expansion than have them lean on pushing the cash shop harder and throwing more things into idiot test boxes that ought to be gained instead through legitimate gameplay.Edited by Chadak on February 1, 2017 4:22PM3
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The_Protagonist✭✭✭✭✭
✭The_Protagonist wrote: »Some of the Crown Store choices were greed. I don't believe RNG boxes (Crown Crates) have ever been in the benefit of the consumer.
Anyone who chose to purchase said boxes cannot claim they were "greedy" because they willingly engaged in a contract (and I've seen an awful lot of lightning mounts running around). Whether or not something benefits the consumer is a judgement to be made on a per-consumer basis because it's ultimately the consumer that decides, not you or I. Stop acting judgmental and let individuals make their own decisions / judgments.
https://blog.hubspot.com/marketing/psychology-marketers-revealing-principles-human-behavior#sm.0001ja5e2s783cuhqz521r2yxihms
Choice has become more of an illusion nowadays for the chap that is not always on guard.
Why on earth would someone ever not be "on guard?" I expect advertisers and merchants to act in self interest by spinning and making things sound better than they are. Language matters. Advertising and marketing are nothing but the principles of propaganda applied to consumer markets.
Not everyone is as intelligent or aware as you are (you can pat yourself on the back for that
), check the Crown Crate whiner/loser threads, they got into the trap and did not even realize it, till after they lost a substantial amount of money.
Just because a lot of corporates do this for profit, and that people have stopped voicing against it, does not make it ethically right, what is wrong will always be wrong.
The thing here is that instead of black and white, we have ventured in an era of shades of grey (perhaps not always 50 though
), the media and the education system has dumbed people down a lot and many people need to be reminded to be on their guard.
Have a look at this artical, it's about someone who is as (or maybe a little more than all of us) intelligent and aware as you are, it's not insult in anyway please read it:
https://brightside.me/wonder-people/this-girl-spent-a-year-buying-only-absolute-necessities-heres-how-much-she-saved-292410/0 -
The_Protagonist✭✭✭✭✭
✭The_Protagonist wrote: »Some of the Crown Store choices were greed. I don't believe RNG boxes (Crown Crates) have ever been in the benefit of the consumer.
Anyone who chose to purchase said boxes cannot claim they were "greedy" because they willingly engaged in a contract (and I've seen an awful lot of lightning mounts running around). Whether or not something benefits the consumer is a judgement to be made on a per-consumer basis because it's ultimately the consumer that decides, not you or I. Stop acting judgmental and let individuals make their own decisions / judgments.
https://blog.hubspot.com/marketing/psychology-marketers-revealing-principles-human-behavior#sm.0001ja5e2s783cuhqz521r2yxihms
Choice has become more of an illusion nowadays for the chap that is not always on guard.
Why on earth would someone ever not be "on guard?" I expect advertisers and merchants to act in self interest by spinning and making things sound better than they are. Language matters. Advertising and marketing are nothing but the principles of propaganda applied to consumer markets.
I think one of the issues with our world as a whole right now is people are no longer on guard, they accept things as fact and truth far too easily. However that's a debate we really don't want to get into...
LOL too late, it started already
1 -
Nocturnalan✭✭✭SGT_Wolfe101st wrote: »I keep seeing these posts and I can't help but think that the defenders are missing the point. I, as an ESO+ subscriber, signed up with the understanding that it would cover all future content. Now the ESO+ advert states all content on the Crown Store. Under the TOS ZOS is entitled to do whatever they want whenever they want without notice, but that doesn't make it right. People that sub are undoubtedly supporting ZOS, in exchange there were perks, craft bag, some crowns, quarterly DLC's. There has not been anything in Q42016 or as of yet Q12017, if this trend continues subscribers will have gone nearly 4 quarters without the promised DLC. On top of that if you take the content that will be Morrowind and break it out, it would have been Q4's, Q1's, and Q2's size and amount.
Warthgar added a zone, a trial, a story, lots of cosmetics, that was included.
TG and DBH added a zone, an arena, cosmetics, etc. Call it what you want but they advertised ESO+ as one thing and now they've moved the goal post and subscribers are just expected to be okay with that?
WOW does it, EQ does it, not the point, they set a precedent and a model, and now they have abandoned that model with no notice and somehow feeling cheated or mislead makes you a snowflake. Subscribers are not expecting something because we feel "entitled", we paid, paid for something. By the time of launch for Marrowind subs will have paid $135 in subscription costs, which netted them, the crafting bag? Crowns that clearly have lost their value (Marrowind not available for purchase with crowns). It's not the cost, its the value placed on certain dollars payed to ZOS vs others.
Thank you! Someone that gets it.
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MagSorc PVP
XB1 NA 1100+CP0 -
theivorykitty✭✭✭stewhead2ub17_ESO wrote: »I understand why some people are ranting and raving about the expansion announcement. I also understand that we are from a myriad of economic backgrounds. But because a company wishes to turn a profit from their product and hard work does not make them "Greedy". If you think companies launch these AAA titles merely out of a passion or labor of love then you are mistaken and delusional. Ultimately it is up to me or you to decide to pay for the product or not. The many hours I've enjoyed ESO and the quality I feel they've provided have kept me a subscriber and I will, no doubt, purchase the expansion. Expansions are large and cost $$ to produce. I have np whatsoever supporting this. See you in Morrowind!
I love ESO. I've already pre-ordered the collectors digital upgrade for myself and the box collectors edition for my husband. We are both longtime players and eso+ subscribers.
That said, I do have to say that I feel like the Morrowind expansion being dis-included from the ESO+ membership was a pretty sideways move. When we bought ESO+ it was absolutely the intended agreement with Zeni/Bethesda that we would have access to all content in the game as long as we kept on paying every month.
Now, we happen to be the type of people that also buy every DLC anyway in addition to having access to it with ESO+ just for the sake of supporting a game that we both love, and so monetarily this doesn't make a big difference to us - we would have bought the Morrowind expansion anyway.
But still, it really seems wrong for this expansion to not be included with the ESO+ subscription. We were absolutely made to believe that, were we subscribed, we would have access to all game content. I'm getting a touch of bad vibes from this situation.3 -
CombatPrayer✭✭✭✭Some of the things they have done and are doing are greedy. Absolutely.
But this is not about greed. Part of me wants to buy the 'expansion' but I stand on principle. They promised ESO + members would have access to all future DLC. Then they slickly renamed it an 'expansion' which is the same freaking thing (semantic here for the legality of it) and break their promise to all people who have subbed. Bare minimum they should be honorable and show respect for those that sub and give them that free month. I won't even be subbing then. I would have prob just bought it anyway if it was good. But they didn't even show any honor or respect.
It ain't about the money. It's about the greedy way they went about it which is disrespectful to all the ESO + members. That is the point plain and simple. I be nearly all plus members would buy it anyway. From the looks of it many will. But for them to show such blatant disregard for their own promises and word that they gave to members, it's pretty ***.
So many people rushing to defend them and say they are here to make money. Nobody disagrees with that. They are not here out of the good of their heart. But they should have respect for their promises. They should at least attempt to keep their word. That they didn't even try is a sign that their word and promises mean nothing and that they don't even care about about you as a consumer other than what they can make off you.2 -
The_Protagonist✭✭✭✭✭
✭autumnsongbird wrote: »Some of the things they have done and are doing are greedy. Absolutely.
But this is not about greed. Part of me wants to buy the 'expansion' but I stand on principle. They promised ESO + members would have access to all future DLC. Then they slickly renamed it an 'expansion' which is the same freaking thing (semantic here for the legality of it) and break their promise to all people who have subbed. Bare minimum they should be honorable and show respect for those that sub and give them that free month. I won't even be subbing then. I would have prob just bought it anyway if it was good. But they didn't even show any honor or respect.
It ain't about the money. It's about the greedy way they went about it which is disrespectful to all the ESO + members. That is the point plain and simple. I be nearly all plus members would buy it anyway. From the looks of it many will. But for them to show such blatant disregard for their own promises and word that they gave to members, it's pretty ***.
So many people rushing to defend them and say they are here to make money. Nobody disagrees with that. They are not here out of the good of their heart. But they should have respect for their promises. They should at least attempt to keep their word. That they didn't even try is a sign that their word and promises mean nothing and that they don't even care about about you as a consumer other than what they can make off you.
Sadly, our era does not honor it's promises nor it's word. We live in an era of greed and selfishness, the foolish are taken advantage of, the evil manipulate the fools and anyone with half a brain will only look to protect him/herself, it's not about the prosperity of the community but only of one's own self.0 -
CombatPrayer✭✭✭✭vyndral13preub18_ESO wrote: »Oh i don't know. It is almost like they held back stuff and didnt release it as dlc so they could package it all together, call it an expansion and sell it. That sort of sounds like greed. But fine, we will just call it goood business.
Given that it will be a year since the last dlc or 'expansion' I'm gonna agree with this. Subs haven't gotten what they were promised. Those DLCs? Where were they? Updates that everyone got anyway. Two dungeons. That is the dlc I guess. Pretty lame considering they promised more. It will be 1 year with no solid DLC when this is released. Right now, we are around eight months.Edited by CombatPrayer on February 1, 2017 4:46PM1 -
forwardbias83✭✭✭When it comes to greed, I used to play so called "free to play" games. But quit, in the one game, the best armor set could only be acquired through the cash shop, cost around $2000, then you needed to spend another $2000 for gems and refines. Another game had rune crafting, to get the best runes to increase damage as well as increase your defenses, a full set of top level runes was like $17,000. You could be a literal god in PVP and PVE, but it would cost you.0 -
The_Protagonist✭✭✭✭✭
✭forwardbias83 wrote: »When it comes to greed, I used to play so called "free to play" games. But quit, in the one game, the best armor set could only be acquired through the cash shop, cost around $2000, then you needed to spend another $2000 for gems and refines. Another game had rune crafting, to get the best runes to increase damage as well as increase your defenses, a full set of top level runes was like $17,000. You could be a literal god in PVP and PVE, but it would cost you.
Sounds like a Gameloft game.0 -
LrdRahvin✭✭✭✭✭The_Protagonist wrote: »Huh What? Oh another whiteknight from ZOS
Nothing to see here, move on.
Why are the knights always white. It's pretty stereotyped to say only white knights can defend people.
What if they don't have enough paint, or someone leaves a red sock in with their whites being washed, do they then lose their defensive abilities?
If this is all true, are you saying I can nerf Paladins in Pathfinder by just altering my campaign to only have black platemail with red cloth?
Can I have some of whatever you're on please? 0 -
Dr_Resilient✭✭✭autumnsongbird wrote: »vyndral13preub18_ESO wrote: »Oh i don't know. It is almost like they held back stuff and didnt release it as dlc so they could package it all together, call it an expansion and sell it. That sort of sounds like greed. But fine, we will just call it goood business.
Given that it will be a year since the last dlc or 'expansion' I'm gonna agree with this. Subs haven't gotten what they were promised. Those DLCs? Where were they? Updates that everyone got anyway. Two dungeons. That is the dlc I guess. Pretty lame considering they promised more. It will be 1 year with no solid DLC when this is released. Right now, we are around eight months.
http://www.elderscrollsonline.com/en-us/news/post/2017/02/01/welcome-to-20170 -
KingMagaw✭✭✭✭✭
✭stewhead2ub17_ESO wrote: »If you think companies launch these AAA titles
If your referring to ESO being an AAA title - Personally i have to disagree. Cheat Engine reduced ESO down when Z0$ poorly managed/manages cheating.
Every dungeon/DLC has been exploited. Its not tested before release or the testers who 'work' for Z0$ are incompetent.
Latest is vMOL exploited for Skin. Z0$ throws a plaster on a DLC released months ago to stop skin being farmed BUT leave the mechanic open you can farm the end chest endlessly. To me that equates to incompetence. That DLC is being paid for, by subs or crown purchase and months later it is still bugged out and being exploited.
Many armor sets have been released bugged out, WW weapon power glitch - TBS Multiple Mundus glitch (for the 2nd time at least). I was subbing to support the game, but seriously look at what i am supporting above.stewhead2ub17_ESO wrote: »Expansions are large and cost $$ to produce.
So in the Quarters where ESO did not release any new content, my sub was paying them to work on this new content but when the new content comes, they want the sub and price for new content. Greed. Especially since the new content will be filled with bugs because Z0$ have proven over 2+ years they are incompetent in testing before releasing.
Personally for me, this semantics between DLC and expansion, with Z0$ proactively changing the ways they had worded it shows there is a change in thinking, or they would have left the original wording. I am actually glad because with all the changes happening recently and with Z0$ enthusiasm with pushing players toward crown store it has turned me right off the new content. Before now i was like crown store exclusives, meh. Exclusive motifs meh, even exclusive items from crown store you cant make in game i was like meh but between housing release and now this, it has drastically changed for me personally.
Additionally they havent added anything new for subscribers because they are shafting them on the bag space. How many DLC's/new content/revamped gear has been released since the start of game, yet storage has stayed the same. Its not hard to increase the bank cap, or bag cap.
Even blatantly not releasing extra storage in Homestead where you can buy your own house, yet adding heaps of new items to the game but NO additional storage. ESO+ is simply for storage now - do not expect anymore 'perks'. Now its back to deserted guild banks for the 500 spaces, or even 2 if needed, to handle the items in my craft bag as i dont really mind subbing previously, but now considering Z0$ are being so blatantly greedy, i am withdrawing my sub and going to use guild banks like i did at the start.
I thought Homestead, Z0$ were bordering on smart, simply to give most items in game a use/function, traits researched, alts, motifs etc, but when i objectively look at everything that is happening i dont feel excited about new updates, i feel disappointed these are coming.
Edited by KingMagaw on February 1, 2017 5:42PM1
