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All Group Content Should Have A Solo Option
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dday3six✭✭✭✭✭
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So people who want the game to have both solo and group content want the game to only cater to endgame group content? On the other hand people who want everything to have solo mode enabled to be a feature, don't want the game to cater to solo players?
Yeah, there's no consistency in that.
The game does not cater to only endgame group players, and none are saying it should. Endgame content, or even group content which are small parts of the whole does, and it is being that that it should stay that way. It's being said that there exists group content, endgame content and solo content, or in otherwords how the game is currently is how it should continue.
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Iselin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Group content should be for groups only because groups are so nice and welcoming and never kick anyone for using double bows or a 2HD.2 -
BlazingDynamo✭✭✭✭✭Many may disagree but it is my opinion there is too much Group Content forced upon solo players. I am a solo player. I do not like running in groups. The World Bosses, Undaunted Pledges and much of Craglorn with the exception of the Craglorn quest line are all geared for group play. My suggestion is to have a solo option for all group content. The rewards do not have to be the same since the difficulty would change but there should be a solo option.
But this is an MMO..
You can solo delves and public dungeons.0 -
Tapio75✭✭✭✭✭
✭WE SHOULD NOT ASK SOLO VERSION, WE SHOULD ASK FOR PRIVATE INSTANCES
Asking for solo versions mean, that there are versions of dungeons and delves and other areas that are tuned only for solo, where private instances are better, is that they are made fro 1+ players and scale according to number of players at instance. ZOS is allready good at scaling and the world are allready full of instanced places in open world and behind fvarious "doors",
With private instances, we would be able to play that content exactly like we want, in large group or alone or with just one friend.
Solo versions of instance pose too many restrictions where private instances open possibilities for more control over the content.>>PC-EU Mostly PVE. Played since BETA<<0 -
CromulentForumID✭✭✭✭Miss_Morphine wrote: »NewBlacksmurf wrote: »Disagree
It should actually be the other way around
All solo content should have at least a duo or trio option
With the exception of vma and main story quests all of it does...
I am not sure I agree with this. Sure, you can group and do missions, but you are rarely doing more than killing things alongside the person who actually has the quest. Sometimes, if you did the quest before, you can't even see the NPCs due to phasing. Can you help with the objectives? Sometimes. Does clicking an objective help your friend advance in the quest? Sometimes.
Outside of instanced group content, teaming and questing in this game is pretty weak. Open world games with phasing just cannot handle it well. The games that do teaming and mission sharing and difficulty scaling best don't have phasing, and mostly have their missions in instances.
Yep. You are technically doing it in a team, since you are in a group. Unless you only do your mission with the other guy's mission at the same time, though, you probably are not always working on the quest goals together. Kill quests, sure, but anything you have to click? NPCs to rescue when you have already done the quest?
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Hartagon✭✭✭
So people who want the game to have both solo and group content want the game to only cater to endgame group content? On the other hand people who want everything to have solo mode enabled to be a feature, don't want the game to cater to solo players?
Yeah, there's no consistency in that.
Yeah there is no consistency because you just spoke literal nonsense and made strawman arguments.
No one made either of the assertions you just made in the bold, you just pulled those out of thin air and then attacked them instead of what was actually said.0 -
Reikyce✭Many may disagree but it is my opinion there is too much Group Content forced upon solo players. I am a solo player. I do not like running in groups. The World Bosses, Undaunted Pledges and much of Craglorn with the exception of the Craglorn quest line are all geared for group play. My suggestion is to have a solo option for all group content. The rewards do not have to be the same since the difficulty would change but there should be a solo option.
You can solo most of those, Group Bosses and Crag for sure, vet dungeons not all and its not worth it time wise.
But normal dungeons? 100% soloable and easy to do and you get the pledges that way if you want.1 -
CromulentForumID✭✭✭✭AhPook_Is_Here wrote: »Many may disagree but it is my opinion there is too much Group Content forced upon solo players. I am a solo player. I do not like running in groups. The World Bosses, Undaunted Pledges and much of Craglorn with the exception of the Craglorn quest line are all geared for group play. My suggestion is to have a solo option for all group content. The rewards do not have to be the same since the difficulty would change but there should be a solo option.
You can actually do all of that stuff solo now.
They are not being prevented from doing it, no. But they may very well not be a good enough player, or have enough good gear, to accomplish it. Those are two very different things.
Just because you are not prevented from doing it, doesn't mean you actually can do it.
It's like the retort when people complain about their job:
"Nothing's stopping you from starting your own business!"
Well, true, the law doesn't really stop someone from trying that. But that doesn't mean they have the finances, health, skill, and all of the other factors that lead to that business being a success or even functional.0 -
vyndral13preub18_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭CromulentForumID wrote: »AhPook_Is_Here wrote: »Many may disagree but it is my opinion there is too much Group Content forced upon solo players. I am a solo player. I do not like running in groups. The World Bosses, Undaunted Pledges and much of Craglorn with the exception of the Craglorn quest line are all geared for group play. My suggestion is to have a solo option for all group content. The rewards do not have to be the same since the difficulty would change but there should be a solo option.
You can actually do all of that stuff solo now.
They are not being prevented from doing it, no. But they may very well not be a good enough player, or have enough good gear, to accomplish it. Those are two very different things.
Just because you are not prevented from doing it, doesn't mean you actually can do it.
It's like the retort when people complain about their job:
"Nothing's stopping you from starting your own business!"
Well, true, the law doesn't really stop someone from trying that. But that doesn't mean they have the finances, health, skill, and all of the other factors that lead to that business being a success or even functional.
So should we change the title of the thread to all content should have an easily solo option for those that just want to press buttons and watch the story?0 -
ADarklore✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Once again I get to post the interview with Matt Firor that so many here seem to want to disregard and continue to talk about how 'MMO means group content' when Matt in this interview SPECIFICALLY SAYS that ESO is 'not like a traditional MMO' and he mentions SOLO four times in the interview.CP: 1965 ** ESO+ Gold Road ** ~~ Stamina Arcanist ~~ Magicka Warden ~~ Magicka Templar ~~ ***** Strictly a solo PvE quester *****0 -
dday3six✭✭✭✭✭
✭
So people who want the game to have both solo and group content want the game to only cater to endgame group content? On the other hand people who want everything to have solo mode enabled to be a feature, don't want the game to cater to solo players?
Yeah, there's no consistency in that.
Yeah there is no consistency because you just spoke literal nonsense and made strawman arguments.
No one made either of the assertions you just made in the bold, you just pulled those out of thin air and then attacked them instead of what was actually said.Catering only to endgame group content in an MMO kills the MMO.
You know I can go back re-quote you, right?
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Hartagon✭✭✭
So people who want the game to have both solo and group content want the game to only cater to endgame group content? On the other hand people who want everything to have solo mode enabled to be a feature, don't want the game to cater to solo players?
Yeah, there's no consistency in that.
Yeah there is no consistency because you just spoke literal nonsense and made strawman arguments.
No one made either of the assertions you just made in the bold, you just pulled those out of thin air and then attacked them instead of what was actually said.Catering only to endgame group content in an MMO kills the MMO.
You know I can go back re-quote you, right?
How do you conflate "catering only to endgame group content kills an MMO" with "want the game to only cater to endgame group content"?
Those two things are literally the opposite of each other.0 -
Tapio75✭✭✭✭✭
✭For me its not so much of being able to solo something or have an easy mode but to be able to do stuff with people i wwant or alone and not be forced to witnedd playstyles which break immersive dungeon delving.>>PC-EU Mostly PVE. Played since BETA<<0 -
CromulentForumID✭✭✭✭vyndral13preub18_ESO wrote: »CromulentForumID wrote: »AhPook_Is_Here wrote: »Many may disagree but it is my opinion there is too much Group Content forced upon solo players. I am a solo player. I do not like running in groups. The World Bosses, Undaunted Pledges and much of Craglorn with the exception of the Craglorn quest line are all geared for group play. My suggestion is to have a solo option for all group content. The rewards do not have to be the same since the difficulty would change but there should be a solo option.
You can actually do all of that stuff solo now.
They are not being prevented from doing it, no. But they may very well not be a good enough player, or have enough good gear, to accomplish it. Those are two very different things.
Just because you are not prevented from doing it, doesn't mean you actually can do it.
It's like the retort when people complain about their job:
"Nothing's stopping you from starting your own business!"
Well, true, the law doesn't really stop someone from trying that. But that doesn't mean they have the finances, health, skill, and all of the other factors that lead to that business being a success or even functional.
So should we change the title of the thread to all content should have an easily solo option for those that just want to press buttons and watch the story?
I am not really supporting the creation of a solo option for group content. I am against the logic that seems to think that because you (the royal you) can do something, everyone else can. I think that argument is terrible in almost all cases where it's used. I wasn't really trying to correct the OP or suggest we needed to move the argument in a different direction. But if you were just taking a shot at me, I'd like to see you put in more work. That was 4/10 work above.
I don't see too much of a problem with the concept of getting solo, private instances of the current group dungeons. However, they shouldn't drop any set items, if they drop any rewards at all. World bosses, I am not sure how you would do that. The solution certainly should not be to make them easier for everyone.
I wouldn't want any development resources spent on this with the game in its current state. There is too much work to do on other things. So I don't find too many issues with the idea, but I wouldn't want it in the game right now because there are too many other things to work on, fix or optimize. The solo version changes are the kind of thing you do when your development list is fairly small and your game is stable enough to not lag or kick people repeatedly.0 -
dday3six✭✭✭✭✭
✭
So people who want the game to have both solo and group content want the game to only cater to endgame group content? On the other hand people who want everything to have solo mode enabled to be a feature, don't want the game to cater to solo players?
Yeah, there's no consistency in that.
Yeah there is no consistency because you just spoke literal nonsense and made strawman arguments.
No one made either of the assertions you just made in the bold, you just pulled those out of thin air and then attacked them instead of what was actually said.Catering only to endgame group content in an MMO kills the MMO.
You know I can go back re-quote you, right?
How do you conflate "catering only to endgame group content kills an MMO" with "want the game to only cater to endgame group content"?
Those two things are literally the opposite of each other.
You responded to me with that statement, implying I wanted the game to cater only to endgame group content.
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vyndral13preub18_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Once again I get to post the interview with Matt Firor that so many here seem to want to disregard and continue to talk about how 'MMO means group content' when Matt in this interview SPECIFICALLY SAYS that ESO is 'not like a traditional MMO' and he mentions SOLO four times in the interview.
He also says, 'If you want to do it super-grindy with dungeons, Trials, and group bosses as the core of your experience, you can group up with others and do that too.'
And then later goes on to mention how the game starts you out solo but leads you to group content such as group bosses and dungeons, Or trials. And even ends with, 'All these are best tackled with a group. But you arent forced to do them. In fact, you can still play the hundereds of hours of solo quest content if you wish and have a great time.'
So im not really sure what that article proves other then Matt is aware and ok with the fact that not everything can be soloed.Edited by vyndral13preub18_ESO on January 31, 2017 5:46PM2 -
ADarklore✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭vyndral13preub18_ESO wrote: »Once again I get to post the interview with Matt Firor that so many here seem to want to disregard and continue to talk about how 'MMO means group content' when Matt in this interview SPECIFICALLY SAYS that ESO is 'not like a traditional MMO' and he mentions SOLO four times in the interview.
He also says, 'If you want to do it super-grindy with dungeons, Trials, and group bosses as the core of your experience, you can group up with others and do that too.'
And then later goes on to mention how the game starts you out solo but leads you to group content such as group bosses and dungeons, Or trials. And even ends with, 'All these are best tackled with a group. But you arent forced to do them. In fact, you can still play the hundereds of hours of solo quest content if you wish and have a great time.'
So im not really sure what that article proves other then Matt is aware and ok with the fact that not everything can be soloed.
The point was that he, himself, was pointing out that ESO is not a traditional MMO, and that it isn't/shouldn't be all about forced GROUP content, which is what many of those 'MMO means group content' are implying. ZOS knows who is playing what in ESO, and they know how often people are grouping and running what content, which is how they knew that Craglorn in it's group design was horrible and hardly anyone ever went there, he even once joked that maybe 12 people went there.
EDIT (Bolded for emphasis): Also, in the interview he said, "We don’t know exactly how many ESO players previously played other Elder Scrolls games, but we assume it is the great majority. After PC launch, and especially leading up to console launch mid-last year, we have done a great job setting customer expectations about what ESO is, and now that it has become so popular, I don’t think we run into anyone thinking the game is Skyrim 2. Our bigger challenge has been to educate players that we are not a traditional 2004-style MMO and much more an expansive online Elder Scrolls RPG."Edited by ADarklore on January 31, 2017 5:55PMCP: 1965 ** ESO+ Gold Road ** ~~ Stamina Arcanist ~~ Magicka Warden ~~ Magicka Templar ~~ ***** Strictly a solo PvE quester *****0 -
AlnilamE✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭vyndral13preub18_ESO wrote: »Once again I get to post the interview with Matt Firor that so many here seem to want to disregard and continue to talk about how 'MMO means group content' when Matt in this interview SPECIFICALLY SAYS that ESO is 'not like a traditional MMO' and he mentions SOLO four times in the interview.
He also says, 'If you want to do it super-grindy with dungeons, Trials, and group bosses as the core of your experience, you can group up with others and do that too.'
And then later goes on to mention how the game starts you out solo but leads you to group content such as group bosses and dungeons, Or trials. And even ends with, 'All these are best tackled with a group. But you arent forced to do them. In fact, you can still play the hundereds of hours of solo quest content if you wish and have a great time.'
So im not really sure what that article proves other then Matt is aware and ok with the fact that not everything can be soloed.
The point was that he, himself, was pointing out that ESO is not a traditional MMO, and that it isn't/shouldn't be all about forced GROUP content, which is what many of those 'MMO means group content' are implying. ZOS knows who is playing what in ESO, and they know how often people are grouping and running what content, which is how they knew that Craglorn in it's group design was horrible and hardly anyone ever went there, he even once joked that maybe 12 people went there.
I'd say 95% of the content is solo. Of the other 5%, about 4% *can* be soloed if you are good. AA and HRC still have group number limitations.CromulentForumID wrote: »AhPook_Is_Here wrote: »Many may disagree but it is my opinion there is too much Group Content forced upon solo players. I am a solo player. I do not like running in groups. The World Bosses, Undaunted Pledges and much of Craglorn with the exception of the Craglorn quest line are all geared for group play. My suggestion is to have a solo option for all group content. The rewards do not have to be the same since the difficulty would change but there should be a solo option.
You can actually do all of that stuff solo now.
They are not being prevented from doing it, no. But they may very well not be a good enough player, or have enough good gear, to accomplish it. Those are two very different things.
Just because you are not prevented from doing it, doesn't mean you actually can do it.
It's like the retort when people complain about their job:
"Nothing's stopping you from starting your own business!"
Well, true, the law doesn't really stop someone from trying that. But that doesn't mean they have the finances, health, skill, and all of the other factors that lead to that business being a success or even functional.
They may not be able to accomplish it on their first try, but they could look at it as a way to improve their gameplay.
When I first started doing dungeons with friends, I got way better at the game, just from being able to play in a group and figure out my role and the mechanics and such.The Moot Councillor0 -
Soella✭✭✭✭Well, if all the folks here who said "I would love a story mode for dungeons so I can experience the quests" in this thread are playing on the same server (or even split 50/50), all you have to do is group up together and do the dungeons in normal mode.
@Hartagon , @Ahnastashia , @Soella and @mikeabboudb14_ESO for example.
You seem to be looking for the same experience. Get together and run the dungeons in normal mode and take your time enjoying the stories!
What we want is to be able to do when we can and not waste time to find other players.
Group content is only subset of MMO, and if it can be shared for solo use with minimal development time it would be great. As a matter of fact, in one or another form it is already done in many MMOs.2 -
Tapio75✭✭✭✭✭
✭vyndral13preub18_ESO wrote: »He also says, 'If you want to do it super-grindy with dungeons, Trials, and group bosses as the core of your experience, you can group up with others and do that too.'
And then later goes on to mention how the game starts you out solo but leads you to group content such as group bosses and dungeons, Or trials. And even ends with, 'All these are best tackled with a group. But you arent forced to do them. In fact, you can still play the hundereds of hours of solo quest content if you wish and have a great time.'
So im not really sure what that article proves other then Matt is aware and ok with the fact that not everything can be soloed.
Only in closed instances specifically created to groups, you can select who you play with but you cant select the number, you have to have the required amount of people to enjoy them, thus, the content should also scale to number of players that are inside the instance.. Be it one person or 10 person, all should have relatively same challenge in that instance.
Problems start when you go outside to open world and delves, you cant select anything, you are forced to coexist with zergs and all sorts of farmers and grinders and rushesr which truly seem to be majority of playerbase. If you want to do a delve alone or with a friend, you cant, if you want to do world boss or dolmen without the zerg mayhem, you cant though with world bosses, i do agree that it should be more than just 1 player or considewrable solo challenge as well as dolmens. I dont think world bosses and dolmens can really be instanced so that one can select the people doing it with but at least all closed areas like delves and quest indoor areas, maybe some quest areas, should be with private instance option, so that you dont have to cut back of your enjoyment factor because farmer john is killing everything or because you cant sneak slowly through a delve because there is nothing to sneak kill or sneak past because some crazy train killed them allready.
I wwish to opt out in these places from playing with zergs, farmers and rushers. I wish to do them on my own or with people ithat are like minded.
Going to delve currently for example, does not give you option to play it immersively with people you want even if you group with like minded people because they are open. sad thing is, that delves are clearly designed for one player experience and one cant do even that.
>>PC-EU Mostly PVE. Played since BETA<<1 -
idk✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Like this Indoril cryp im now doing, i just wanted tpo immersively sneak behind enemies and kill them quickly to not raise an alarm, yes this is not needed but the story is much more fun this way... But like countless other similar places in ESO, the crypt is full of players, killing everything, always going with the sprint button glued down. There is simply no way to do this the enjoyable way, all i can do to finish the quest is go to the end of the crypt and finish the quest
This could have been exellent part of TES series if the MMO crap would have been left out and just made an TES game with many other players online at the same time
@Tapio75
It's the difference between an MMO and single player game.1 -
Tommy_The_Gun✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭"All Group Content Should Have A Solo Option"
Well.. it is a mmo after all...
Whenever I enter group dungeon solo I always wonder why ZOS left this possibility in game. It is like the game is teasing you. You want to enter and beat the dungeon ALONE ?! Well.. you can but scaling mobs level and some boss fight mechanics will make it impossible...
btw. It used to be a problem long time ago when group finder was not working at all...0 -
Iselin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭I think there's a good case that can be made for having solo story modes of any and all content in ESO that tells a story.
Yes MMOs are for grouping and in theory groups should be a good experience that's even better than the solo experience. But in practice?
Just have a look at all the threads about people getting kicked from groups or excluded from raids for not being elite enough. Or do any dungeon run with people who don't talk, or want to rush ahead in FG skipping bosses by jumping in the water.
Unless you're lucky enough to play with a group of friends that will do the dungeons and trials or other story group content in a relaxed enjoyable manner instead of just treating it as an RNG loot piñata, grouping isn't all it's cracked up to be and this excludes anyone who would rather avoid the toxic bad vibes from enjoying that content.
Hell this very thread is sprinkled with condescending elitist comments that reinforce why sometimes people just don't want to group.
I say make it happen. It's not hurting anyone or anything.2 -
MasterSpatula✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I would actually be really happy to have all group content available as a solo option with no rewards so I could just go through and listen to the conversations at my own pace.
At the very least, I wish the game wouldn't kick me from dungeons if the group disbands. I recently ran a newish character through one, and after beating the final boss, I said on /group, "Hey guys, I missed the lorebook. Please don't disband the group so I can run get it."
Take a wild guess what happened next."A probable impossibility is preferable to an improbable possibility." - Aristotle1 -
gard✭✭✭✭✭I don't believe any group content exists that a solo player can't enter. Is there?
Although there are some mechanics that require more than one player.
But I think what the OP is really asking for is for group content to be made weaker.
Not only no, but hell no.
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vyndral13preub18_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭MasterSpatula wrote: »I would actually be really happy to have all group content available as a solo option with no rewards so I could just go through and listen to the conversations at my own pace.
At the very least, I wish the game wouldn't kick me from dungeons if the group disbands. I recently ran a newish character through one, and after beating the final boss, I said on /group, "Hey guys, I missed the lorebook. Please don't disband the group so I can run get it."
Take a wild guess what happened next.
Yeah. It is the worst part of them shortening the time after a disband before you get kicked. Some of thebquest end take longer then the timer. Ive had good luck with asking people to stay. But if you dont know how long it is, you wouldnt ask.0 -
SodanTok✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Dont ask for solo content, ask for content that is -possible- for solo players. There is no need to make some easy dungeons to cater to "not good enough" players. The only problem I have is with content that is impossible no matter how "git gut" you get. Mechanics that perma stuns you or require two people to stand in different spots, etc... Most "group players" could do without them too.Edited by SodanTok on January 31, 2017 6:14PM1