That's what you get from a PUG during weekend

globesoi

I recently converted my Stam Sorc DPS to do tanking just for fun. She can do all non-DLC vet dungeon with ease and with fair bit damage. DLC/trail will use my proper StamDK tank.

Okay, on Saturday, I did a PUG run into vet Direfrost as tank. With 1 Healer just aboved 300 CP, 1 DPS 192CP and another DPS about 100 CP. I didn't want to tell them they are too low for this dungeon and decided to give them a try.

Okay, long story short. We finished first boss, group DPS 29K and I was doing 45% of group DPS as tank while holding the taunt of boss. 2DPS + healer only did about 16K dps. I told them, with this dps, it will be hard work at last boss, and highly likely not able to pass.

Then silent, no one replied to me.

I said, We need better dps.

And then I got kicked out from the group.

Now I know why people complain about PUG, LOL.

FloppyTouch

You have to believe you can do it!

AtAfternoon

You said you very likely wouldn't be able to complete the dungeon. So they kicked you. I can't really blame them for being careful, at least you were honest about your doubts.

Mr_Apollo

Rather be kicked than spending 3 hours on a bloody dungeon with the main dps doing 16k of damage. You got the best end of the deal mate

Jitterbug

It's the name of the game for pugging.

I'm a bad player in the sense that I have recently been dipping my toes into the vet dungeons content, am not geared nor skilled for it, and that surely puts a strain on my fellow puggers. The thing is though the key factor now does not become skill it becomes patience.

I went into CoA (2 I think) yesterday and flew through it with the first pug. I then realized it was daily and had to do it again. This time it was a lot harder and I was the only one from the first pug to complete as all others left. The guys I completed it with was all low CP players.

The point is when you use the dungeon finder to go with random people it will become just that; random. So there is no point in complaining that the pug isn't doing as well as your raiding guild. Everybody has to start somewhere, everybody has to try it to realize that maybe 50 cp isn't enough, or green gear isn't enough.
And everybody has to realize that when you pug you can't expect people with 600 cp and 11 legendary BiS and perfect rotations.

Lyserus

Cp300 healer is low in vet dungeon??

I'm cp250 heavy armor healer and i can heal&Support just fine

Mr_Apollo

Lyserus wrote: »

Cp300 healer is low in vet dungeon??

I'm cp250 heavy armor healer and i can heal&Support just fine

Could prolly do better with light armour to be honest

Turelus

You get what you get with a PUG.

Want good groups always get a guild.

Xerton

The main problem mith pugging is a result of ZOS encouraging players to "play as they want".
This results in Heavy Armor Bow/Bow-don't-you-dare-citicize-me Builds.

From time to time i fill up the last spot of my daily group with a random via group search.

There are 3 possible outcomes:

• A good player joines - all is fine
• A new/unexperienced player joins and listens to advise - all is fine
• A new/unexperienced player joins, ignoring or raging to my advise - i kick him

Sadly the last outcome is the most common. But i am always happy when there is this one guy, that is happy to get advise and once in a while they even thank me after the dungeon for not having them kicked on sight.
So maybe there is hope after all...

Glurin

globesoi wrote: »

Okay, on Saturday, I did a PUG run into vet Direfrost as tank. With 1 Healer just aboved 300 CP, 1 DPS 192CP and another DPS about 100 CP. I didn't want to tell them they are too low for this dungeon and decided to give them a try.

Good, because they're not.

globesoi wrote: »

Okay, long story short. We finished first boss, group DPS 29K and I was doing 45% of group DPS as tank while holding the taunt of boss. 2DPS + healer only did about 16K dps. I told them, with this dps, it will be hard work at last boss, and highly likely not able to pass.

That part, however, is where they've got problems. It's doable. Will be a longer fight, but still doable as long as you pay attention to the mechanics. The problem these days, however, is that that is one thing people seem determined NOT to do. At 16k DPS my concern would be that they wouldn't be able to properly adjust to the mechanics of the fight for whatever reason. (FYI, I have the similar concerns about people who brag about having 30k, 40k, 50k or even higher DPS.)

GilGalad

also had a PUG experience this weekend in vVOM:
Tank 200is, DPS 160, 2nd DPS don't know since he disconnected after the firs boss. Luckily I was healin on my Dunmer Templar so I put on my DPS gear, the Templar tank ran repentance, so I had enough space for dmg skills and we did the du from with 3 ppl just fine. Wiped once at the final boss cause they moved out of the AOE too slow but the 2nd try worked.
We had a group DPS of 40k, while I was doing 28k and healing.
As a healer you can often carry one bad DPS, but carriying 2 Bad DPS is rough.

Digiman

One PuG and you judge the rest of them from the expierence? Get back to the grind and do several then get back to me.

Miss_Morphine

Digiman wrote: »

One PuG and you judge the rest of them from the expierence? Get back to the grind and do several then get back to me.

From running pledges with pugs fairly regularly I can tell you that it is often painful.

I like to do stuff with new players, gives me a different perspective on the game and maybe someone can even learn something.

About 1/3 of the time they're pretty awful though. To the point of having to solo bosses because everyone dies to the 1hit mechanics.

Sometimes they're jerks about it, because... logic? Other times everyone's super chill and I don't really mind.

akl77

globesoi wrote: »

I recently converted my Stam Sorc DPS to do tanking just for fun. She can do all non-DLC vet dungeon with ease and with fair bit damage. DLC/trail will use my proper StamDK tank.

Okay, on Saturday, I did a PUG run into vet Direfrost as tank. With 1 Healer just aboved 300 CP, 1 DPS 192CP and another DPS about 100 CP. I didn't want to tell them they are too low for this dungeon and decided to give them a try.

Okay, long story short. We finished first boss, group DPS 29K and I was doing 45% of group DPS as tank while holding the taunt of boss. 2DPS + healer only did about 16K dps. I told them, with this dps, it will be hard work at last boss, and highly likely not able to pass.

Then silent, no one replied to me.

I said, We need better dps.

And then I got kicked out from the group.

Now I know why people complain about PUG, LOL.

I did the same before, saying to them dps too low can't pass boss and I left. Then I get whisper hate non stop, so I had to block them. So childish some people.

Digiman

My worst PuG was years ago I think we were doing Veteren Ash 2 on the last boss with the scroll procced, Our tank had a language barrier problem and couldn't understand how the fight went. We basically skated by because of perseverance of the group to clear the dungeon before I gave up because it was so late and was falling asleep

This was before the nerf so it was hard and required a lot of careful timing and before the LFG tool existed as well so finding replacements was incredible difficult especially because not very many people were subbing either.

So you can see why I am a little ticked off when someone complains like this when you faced a nightmare like that.

Loc2262

@globesoi: I had a similar experience with two PUGs yesterday (minus the kick - I usually leave the group myself to avoid discussion and the hassle of finding replacements ).

First, Cradle of Shadows Normal. I was healing, the tank and DDs were CP 400, 600, 650ish. They were playing together I suppose, cause they kept text chatting in French. So I figured, smooth sailing. Well first indication to the contrary was how long they needed to even find their way around the dungeon. They paused at every other corner for like 20 seconds. I asked if they had done it before, they said yes. Mob groups took forever to take down. I noticed the DDs had 22k and 28k health. First spider boss took forever to defeat. Good thing her heavy attack is no one-shot on normal. At Dranos though it was one wipe after the other, cause they didn't understand or manage to interrupt the adds. The tank didn't taunt and the DDs did barely any damage. I didn't really feel at all like carrying a high CP group thru a normal dungeon as a healer, so I left.

Second, Fungal 2 Vet for the pledge. Long story short, the healer was a complete failure despite 250 CP. People kept dying over and over in mob groups. Since it was late anyway, I left, and called it a day.

Lyserus

Mr_Apollo wrote: »

Lyserus wrote: »

Cp300 healer is low in vet dungeon??

I'm cp250 heavy armor healer and i can heal&Support just fine

Could prolly do better with light armour to be honest

true that but as a healer u really don't want to risk getting instant..(and with lag in vet dungeon it is very likely for me)

Especially with dps who have no idea of "self-preservation", you can't spend much magicka on yourself neither.

So before serious problems appear i will just stick with heavy and who knows i might go in to pvp and i don't have to switch my gears

globesoi

Lyserus wrote: »

Cp300 healer is low in vet dungeon??

I'm cp250 heavy armor healer and i can heal&Support just fine

Low CP Healer/Tank is not a big problem in vet Dungeon as long as they fulfill their role . I clearly most vet Dungeon as healer when I was under 300cp. Tank might not give war-horn, healer might no a lot of dps, but not big problem.
But when pair with bad dps, especially low cp(which I mean below cp160), things below a lot tougher.
When guys not reached cp160, they haven't started to collect gear, I have seen many of them are wearing none set gear or low level gear, what kind dps can you expect?

Don't really understand why they want to join vet dungeon, to waste other people's time? Once I got whisper hate from one guy non-stop after group disband, I have to tell him he is not entitled to be carried.

I understand it took long time for DPS to find a group, but if the group doesn't work, they are not just wasting their own time, but 3 other people's time as well.

globesoi

Turelus wrote: »

You get what you get with a PUG.

Want good groups always get a guild.

I have good guild and friend can run dungeon with. But from time to time, I'd like to use PUG as tank or healer to help people run some dungeon and get some undaunted xp.

If more people can do this, then DPS queue for PUG won't be an hour any more.

Totes-Bode

globesoi wrote: »

I recently converted my Stam Sorc DPS to do tanking just for fun. She can do all non-DLC vet dungeon with ease and with fair bit damage. DLC/trail will use my proper StamDK tank.

Okay, on Saturday, I did a PUG run into vet Direfrost as tank. With 1 Healer just aboved 300 CP, 1 DPS 192CP and another DPS about 100 CP. I didn't want to tell them they are too low for this dungeon and decided to give them a try.

Okay, long story short. We finished first boss, group DPS 29K and I was doing 45% of group DPS as tank while holding the taunt of boss. 2DPS + healer only did about 16K dps. I told them, with this dps, it will be hard work at last boss, and highly likely not able to pass.

Then silent, no one replied to me.

I said, We need better dps.

And then I got kicked out from the group.

Now I know why people complain about PUG, LOL.

Considering their silent decision to boot you, its likely they were friends or guildmates who pug'd YOU and were consulting each other in a teamspeak. Since your character is at the level you describe, I'm sure you have guildmates and friends to play with and i advise you to avoid the dungeon finder. Dont use it unless you can be 100% ok with the potential hand of cards youll be dealt.

Bobby_V_Rockit

Ugh, I hate getting "advice" from other players. Nothing screams ego more.

Turelus

Bobby_V_Rockit wrote: »

Ugh, I hate getting "advice" from other players. Nothing screams ego more.

The problem is the ones who push their information on others in a hostile way fostering all advice is ego.

There is something to be said for teaching a player who may not understand a mechanic how it works so they can get better themselves and then help others in future.

I have pugged with players who didn't use food because they didn't understand what it did, after explaining they realised that they could be doing better, thanked us an improved their gameplay.

I have also been in groups where the DPS would refuse to play until the healer slots Elemental Drain, and debated why it was their job. This is counter productive as you're not teaching that person to be better over all but demanding they meet your standards in builds.

The_Protagonist

Welcome to PUG Life

MyKillv2.0

I seem to be opposite on the way I view PUG groups but I enjoy doing them, especially the "difficult groups". If I am in a good group and we tear up a dungeon, it doesn't feel like a challenge. However if I am with a group haybia struggling and we finish, the feeling of accomplishment is awesome.

Turelus

MyKillv2.0 wrote: »

I seem to be opposite on the way I view PUG groups but I enjoy doing them, especially the "difficult groups". If I am in a good group and we tear up a dungeon, it doesn't feel like a challenge. However if I am with a group haybia struggling and we finish, the feeling of accomplishment is awesome.

I've said it on the forums before, some of the best dungeon runs I've ever done are the ones where everything kept going wrong.

However I think most peoples frustration comes from that dungeons are not a fun activity any more but a daily chore in the never ending grind for gear. People don't want to have a fun and challenging run of a dungeon they've seen hundreds of times, they want it done and out of the way so they can go do something else.

Fischblut

Short summary of my post: I've seen people leaving groups for whatever reasons, it's annoying but it's their choice. I just don't support your decision to leave after first boss - if they could break free from Drodda's grasp fast, after some time you would be able to complete the dungeon. Fight taking longer is not a valid reason for me to leave a group. I left pug groups only two times during few month.

I'm smiling now, because neither pug nor guild group means dungeon will be fun... I have many bad memories from dungeons - and from those bad memories, worst are from guild groups, because you actually expect some sanity and polite attitude from guildies... Some of my best memories are from pugging trials, and also it's where my tank stopped being afraid of AA axes - it didn't happen with dedicated guild group of people whom I knew

Just after One Tamriel, I was still in guild and went to vet Direfrost with group of experienced players, one of them has title "Ophidian Overlord" ...Often dds and healer didn't break free fast enough, so Drodda was healing herself just fine. The fight took about 5 minutes. All 3 group members also died two times, leaving me trying to resurrect them while adds and Drodda were interrupting me. Guild group with great dds and healer... My solo fight with vet Kra'gh takes less ( about 4:30, and I'm not great dd cause I don't have MA weapons and can't maintain perfect dots timing) and is much harder with lot of dodging and blocking while trying not to stay too close to boss all the time Solo fight with vet Mad Architect took me about 7 minutes, and it's also crazy hard if I compare it to rather simple group fight with Drodda... ~13k Grinning bolt is his main attack, ~10k damage to me in medium armor, and my health is 18k

I'm very patient, so the group has to be absolutely awful to make me leave. I'm usually tank. I left groups only two times, and it was before One Tamriel, when dungeons were much easier and actually enjoyable.

First was vCoA: healer used only Mutagen; dds couldn't outdamage second boss - adds were overwhelming us, and when she summoned them back, she healed almost to full health each time; one by one all 3 group members died, I ressed them all first 2 times, but it was in vain. This fight was simply not possible, and next fights would not be possible either, no matter how long they could last. DDs weren't even responding to my questions, only one of them said something: "lol"

Second time was in vDS: on netch boss, swarm of adds was alive and constantly chasing us even when boss was prepared for incoming damage. Some of groups members died to adds, so I ended up taunting both boss and adds, and continued to do so after people were resurrected, but it didn't help - most of adds were alive and also kept incoming.

...Just two days ago I spent few hours in normal WGT... Needless to say how "good" the group was. I didn't leave mainly cause I don't have anything to do in ESO and nothing good to wait for, so I just waste my time doing whatever

raglau

As you got the boot, I'd suggest they were a guild who picked up a random to fill a spot and simply felt you sounded like baggage, rightly or wrongly.

The key thing is, all of their levels were completely fine for vet Direfrost, but they'd need to pay close attention to Drodda's bond and heal, this often does not happen and I actually won't PUG vet Direfrost for this reason. All it needs is someone to read the HM scroll and have an unaware player and you'll be there all night.

But again, we should not judge on levels, it's a bad marker. I tanked Vet Banished last night and we had some 350CP healer and DD in there and both had to go. We're not just talking bad healing, but the healer actually dropping heals on dead bodies, the DD was doing less than I was as a tank and both were mechanically unaware. Next DD was CP250 odd and also useless, we got another DD, and he was only about 100CP and great. The battle levelling makes levels more or less redundant in this game I find. Oh yes, and also, even though this Banished run was not on Pledge rotation - just popped as a random - this original wet noodle of a DPS reads the hard mode scroll on the first run (and I did even ask, 'anyone have this as an old pledge?'). Now that's the sort of stupidity that no amount of levelling can weed out.

GreenhaloX

globesoi wrote: »

I recently converted my Stam Sorc DPS to do tanking just for fun. She can do all non-DLC vet dungeon with ease and with fair bit damage. DLC/trail will use my proper StamDK tank.

Okay, on Saturday, I did a PUG run into vet Direfrost as tank. With 1 Healer just aboved 300 CP, 1 DPS 192CP and another DPS about 100 CP. I didn't want to tell them they are too low for this dungeon and decided to give them a try.

Okay, long story short. We finished first boss, group DPS 29K and I was doing 45% of group DPS as tank while holding the taunt of boss. 2DPS + healer only did about 16K dps. I told them, with this dps, it will be hard work at last boss, and highly likely not able to pass.

Then silent, no one replied to me.

I said, We need better dps.

And then I got kicked out from the group.

Now I know why people complain about PUG, LOL.

Ha ha, yes, I had similar experience with vICP where one was like in the 40-ish CP (tank, by the way) and another close to 300 CP (dps) and the healer fairly in the 500 CP, and me 561-ish. We kept wiping on that first Fiend boss cause the tank was a bit too low and couldn't tank effectively. He kept dying, then the rest of us eventually followed. Of course complaints came (not by me), and eventually the low tank left on his own, then a replacement with another tank in the 200 CP, if I can recall, came in. Again, tank was a bit off and we wiped a couple more times. That tank also left, then the crown (the 500 CP; I guess healer) tried to give a pep talk saying we'll do it. We waited for another replacement. Then, I happened to mention (not really a complaint, but apparently took it as such or something by the other two) that the other dps seems to be a bit low. The crown rebutted, no, we are fine. I think I said again something along the line of it will still be a hard fight. Then, not but a couple seconds later, I got the onscreen que that I has been voted to be kicked out. Cool.. ha ha.

In your case, as much as I am very tolerant and patience with running with anyone in any level, I would agree with you on this that those are some low numbers for vDirefrost's final boss, particularly with her healing ability and one-shot capability of her aoe. As what had happened to me and what happened to you, I think we are both better off getting kicked than have to press on with the harder fight with the lower numbers group.

kylewwefan

I pug a lot. It's often quicker than getting guild in order. It causes much frustration. Probably shouldn't do it anymore. I'm getting old and my knees ache. Can't carry people anymore.

SwaminoNowlino

With the addition of target skeletons and DPS readouts in text chat, it would be nice if they put a "recommended DPS" figure for each dungeon in the description. Ideally it would be cool if everyone had to have a DPS readout of "x" in their history to be able to queue for certain dungeons. So someone who hasn't hit 20k dps doesn't queue for vet Cradle of Shadows.

But then again, people would complain and they've made the target skeletons so cost prohibitive that this wouldn't be practical.

Just thinking out loud

OldGamerESO

Best guild ever on NA PC: "Friendly Dungeon Runners"

I always start with building a dungeon group from there. You can still get pug issues, but since everyone is "friendly first" you can always work it out.