What Trade System Would You Prefer?

NewBlacksmurf

Guild Traders

Gandrhulf_Harbard wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

1. It doesn't give everyone an equal and fair chance. What actually happens is the person who has the most money buys up stuff and sets the prices to make more money than they spent. It's why u all complain about traders but you're asking to make it worse

Please stop spreading this delusion.

Name one, JUST ONE, game with an AH where that has ever happened.

I have played dozens of such games, and it has never happened, not even once.

All The Best

@Gandrhulf_Harbard

Those aren't delusions it's a reality. Perhaps you've not been in games from early on until the impact hits.

Specific to this game those who wanted an auction house banned together and forced this high trader bidding system that many dislike.

You have to stop fighting ppl who are trying to point out flaws in this "give us a global AH" idea.

At the core. People who want a global auction are asking for this in order to do what


Make more money selling stuff.
Right

How does anyone make more money selling stuff if everyone else also can see everything, use add-ons and pool resources.

People and greed or selfishness is the root of all of this. Not one person arguing for a global auction house in this thread or the other one on page one is doing so cause there are thousands of players who can't buy things.

No one has even answered the real question. What customers is this auction house being created for?

So far it's sellers which isn't a best approach to what many describe as something they dislike. Sellers can't make more money selling to sellers so what happens is sellers buy to resale this leading exactly to what I wrote earlier that you seem to claim is crazy talk.

Tabbycat

Pawn Brokers

Since housing will be a massive gold sink, do we even need the gold sink created by the Trade System anymore?

Can the problems with the current trade system be alleviated by adding more traders or allowing each trader to carry items of more than one guild?

We have a system where there are too many trade guilds competing for too few trade spots causing hyperinflation which, in tern, locks out smaller trading guilds.

I see the argument that a global auction house will cause players to move in and buy low to sell high, thus controlling the market. But aren't we already seeing that where the same top guilds every week control the same markets and are thus able to artificially inflate pricing? After all, they have to generate a small fortune in gold in order to pay for their spot each week.

GaldorP

Global Auction House

If I may add one more thing which many people seem to miss:

The guild trader system does not lead to fairer market prices. On the contrary, it enables "rich" players to benefit from casuals and newbies. Pro traders will buy any popular item that's being sold under value in less popular spots and resell it for the inflated prices we have in main trading spots. The market prices for things like gold mats are being manipulated and are kept high because it's such a nuisance and waste of time they don't have for most players to travel and check many guild traders in various spots that they would rather buy the overpriced mats in a spot that's easily accessible (and pro traders will already have bought the best offers from less popular spots anyway to resell them for rip-off prices).

A global trading platform would lead to fairer prices that are more determined by supply and demand.

The only people that benefit from the current system are those who enjoy browsing guild stores for hours to find underpriced wares to resell and benefit from the missing knowledge or misguided kindness of another less fortunate player.

Gandrhulf_Harbard

I have a better idea! (post your idea in the comments)

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Gandrhulf_Harbard wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

1. It doesn't give everyone an equal and fair chance. What actually happens is the person who has the most money buys up stuff and sets the prices to make more money than they spent. It's why u all complain about traders but you're asking to make it worse

Please stop spreading this delusion.

Name one, JUST ONE, game with an AH where that has ever happened.

I have played dozens of such games, and it has never happened, not even once.

All The Best

@Gandrhulf_Harbard

Those aren't delusions it's a reality. Perhaps you've not been in games from early on until the impact hits.

Specific to this game those who wanted an auction house banned together and forced this high trader bidding system that many dislike.

You have to stop fighting ppl who are trying to point out flaws in this "give us a global AH" idea.

At the core. People who want a global auction are asking for this in order to do what


Make more money selling stuff.
Right

How does anyone make more money selling stuff if everyone else also can see everything, use add-ons and pool resources.

People and greed or selfishness is the root of all of this. Not one person arguing for a global auction house in this thread or the other one on page one is doing so cause there are thousands of players who can't buy things.

No one has even answered the real question. What customers is this auction house being created for?

So far it's sellers which isn't a best approach to what many describe as something they dislike. Sellers can't make more money selling to sellers so what happens is sellers buy to resale this leading exactly to what I wrote earlier that you seem to claim is crazy talk.

So you didn't name even just one game.

I'll take that to mean you can't, and you know you can't because the situation you are scaremongering about has NEVER happened.

All The Best

Gandrhulf_Harbard

I have a better idea! (post your idea in the comments)

GaldorP wrote: »

IA global trading platform would lead to fairer prices that are more determined by supply and demand.

Exactly.

And that is precisely why Trade Guilds don't want this.

They have been playing a rigged market for so long they know they won't be able to trade in a fair market.

They are afraid of losing out in a fairer system.

All The Best

Vahx

I have a better idea! (post your idea in the comments)

I just want better filters...

Cherryblossom

Global Auction House

Something inclusive for all players, not the Sticky Plaster that is Guild Traders.

Paneross

Global Auction House

An ah system would be best but if they can't do that at least put in a search function.

Gandrhulf_Harbard

I have a better idea! (post your idea in the comments)

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

No one has even answered the real question. What customers is this auction house being created for?

So far it's sellers which isn't a best approach to what many describe as something they dislike. Sellers can't make more money selling to sellers so what happens is sellers buy to resale this leading exactly to what I wrote earlier that you seem to claim is crazy talk.

Your are, deliberately I suggest, looking at it from the wrong end.

The reason the current system favours sellers buying to resell is because Kiosk prices are so high they are forcing commodity prices up to compensate. So the ONLY people able to afford to Buy are Sellers already in Trade Guilds that have a limited monopoly. And because a handful of guilds have this monopoly and so much money they fail to see that the prices they are asking for stuff are simply unattainable for 80% of the player base.

I've seen stacks of Tier 1 crafting mats sell for prices that no new player is likely to see - so where's the market for them?
It's clearly not new players trying to level crafting because they can't afford those kinds of prices.

What is happening now is a cycle of Sellers buying everything they can that is listed at slightly under market value (usually by newer trade guilds only just getting their foot on the ladder) to resell at slightly above current market value - leading to commodity inflation.

Raising the bar to entry to being able to sell (as some have suggested) doesn't fix this inflation issue - it reinforces it.

The ONLY way to fix this issue is to allow more sellers entry to the market.
The AH is precisely about offering a market for more SELLERS.
More sellers selling goods LOWERS prices.
Letting more people become Sellers benefits Customers.

I've seen stuff on Kiosks selling for 200k, stuff that if I vendor it I'll get 80 odd gold for.
With an AH I could list that item at any price above Vendor Price + Sales Tax and be in profit.

Trade Guilds are afraid of competition, because they know with more competition their days of gouging the playerbase are over.

All The Best

Hawco10

I have a better idea! (post your idea in the comments)

Centralized market with buy and sell orders. Make market data such as volume and price history available. Doing this means that someone looking for an item can post a buy order and the price will be driven by other players looking it but the same item. And on the other side, someone can just go ahead and post something for sale in there.
Contracts for ore, mats can be posted. With the players fulfilling those contracts. This would make the game truly a player driven economy. Everyone would know what the current market rates are and would be fairer all round.

Zouni

Guild Traders

Why can't people understand that AH only serve the super elite and leave the rest out. Guild traders all the way!!

Gandrhulf_Harbard

I have a better idea! (post your idea in the comments)

Zouni wrote: »

Why can't people understand that AH only serve the super elite and leave the rest out. Guild traders all the way!!

Because you actually have it backwards.

With an AH EVERYONE gets to sell their goods at the price they think appropriate.

With Trade Guilds not everyone get to sell, and many of those that do are required by the Guild not to undercut the "guild average", so leading to price fixing.

All The Best

MEBengalsFan2001

Global Auction House

Tabbycat wrote: »

The system as is, a global Auction House, a mobile Auction Horse, or Pawn Brokers in place of the current Guild Traders that everyone can access. Pawn Brokers would function similar to how Guild Traders do now except they would not be locked by a single Trade Guild.

I went for the global auction house as that is a better system IMO. It gets more items into one area and pricing of items are modify based on the market, making some high price items in one trader lower over all due to supply vs demand.

wenchmore420b14_ESO

Guild Traders

Ok, I have to throw in my two septims.
1). Supply and demand~ The rising of prices is based off this and not greed. Have any of you played the new PTS? Legendary mats, motifs and even Bone style mats are going to be needed for Master Writs. So gee, just like in real life, the prices are going to go up. It's not a monopoly, it's basic real life economics. Just look at Ambrosia Recipe prices when Mythic was introduced.
2). In the current system people can "corner market" by buying up things at all the kiosks. I dare anyone who claims this to travel to all 171 kiosks in one sitting. With the load screens, CTD, and time to walk/ride to locations, this idea of "buying up" items this way is ludicrous. With a "central AH" WOULD make this possible as someone with 5-10 million gold can find all the "Kutas" lets say and buy them ALL and affect the market. I saw this in WoW. Our current system actualy makes it harder to "control" anything.
3). Only the "Big Trade Guilds" and "Greedy GM's" want the system to stay~Of my 5 guilds, 4 have a trader on a regular basis and not one requires or demands fees or dues.
My guild I am GM of is a Social Cross-Alliance guild that I maintain a trader as a perk for our members. I don't demand weekly fees or sales minimums and we have enough "freely given donations" to maintain a decent trader.
Two of my other guilds are 2 of the largest and oldest trade guilds on NA/PC. Neither has mandatory criteria and both have traders on a regular basis in good spots. Even my PvP guild has started having a trader in a Outlaw Refuge as a extra something for it's members and is going well for them. Not ALL guilds are the same. And no I'm not a "GM who is getting rich and wants to control the market". So don't say that is the only reason anyone wants to keep the current system. MANY just enjoy this system for what it is.
The current system is not perfect, yes it needs some work, but a AH would be so much worse.
And a Thank You to @NewBlacksmurf for your intelligent and articular responses to this and other threads.
Huzzah to you..

DeadlyRecluse

Guild Traders

The trader system is super unique and enables an entirely different "playstyle."

It DOES need an overhaul, roughly 2x the number of available traders, and a UI rework (esp. for consoles).

Gandrhulf_Harbard

I have a better idea! (post your idea in the comments)

wenchmore420b14_ESO wrote: »

Ok, I have to throw in my two septims.
1). Supply and demand~ The rising of prices is based off this and not greed. .

No it isn't.

Because there's a significant portion of the playerbase - those not lucky enough to be in a Trade Guild with a prominent Kiosk - that could feed into the supply side of things and so lower prices but will never get the chance to do so because the market was rigged from the get go.

Supply and Demand economics only work when there are no artificial barrier to supply or demand.

One Tamriel removed the artificial barrier to demand - Kiosks is places players were too low level to ever get to. But increasing demand without allowing for an increase in supply was inevitably going to lead to higher prices.

Add in that Kiosk prices also apply upward pressure on commodity prices and it is easy to see why we have such silly prices for some goods.

To correct that inflationary trend we need to remove the artificial barriers to supply - and that means introducing a mechanism that allows more and more players access to points of sale to sell their goods.

All The Best

Uriel_Nocturne

Guild Traders

Gandrhulf_Harbard wrote: »

wenchmore420b14_ESO wrote: »

Ok, I have to throw in my two septims.
1). Supply and demand~ The rising of prices is based off this and not greed. .

No it isn't.

Because there's a significant portion of the playerbase - those not lucky enough to be in a Trade Guild with a prominent Kiosk - that could feed into the supply side of things and so lower prices but will never get the chance to do so because the market was rigged from the get go.

Supply and Demand economics only work when there are no artificial barrier to supply or demand.

One Tamriel removed the artificial barrier to demand - Kiosks is places players were too low level to ever get to. But increasing demand without allowing for an increase in supply was inevitably going to lead to higher prices.

Add in that Kiosk prices also apply upward pressure on commodity prices and it is easy to see why we have such silly prices for some goods.

To correct that inflationary trend we need to remove the artificial barriers to supply - and that means introducing a mechanism that allows more and more players access to points of sale to sell their goods.

All The Best

Here's the part I like: I like how you conveniently ignore the rest of his post, because the rest of his post defeats any argument you've made in favor of an AH.

I've played WoW. I've played SWtOR, LotRO, Eberon, etc. All of those MMO's have Auction Houses, and in every single one of them, the market is either controlled by a single massive Trade Guild, or a conglomeration of Trade Guilds working together to make sure the entire game economy works to their favor.

The in-game economy on those games sucks, newer Trade Guilds cannot break into the market in any way worth noting, and those Guild Conglomerations use their massive wealth, plus agreements between the Guilds, to fix the Auction house market directly in their favor.

If you think finding an item for a good price (albeit with a bit of hunting for a good deal) is difficult with the Trader System in place now, you have no idea of the frustration and heartbreak you're going to face with an Auction House.

The "Elite Trader Guilds" that you and your ilk keep referencing now, would simply pool their efforts and use their already significant wealth to buy up say... all the Kuta runes or Tempering Alloy's, then would gouge the prices. But then players would HAVE TO pay their exorbitant prices, because those Guild Conglomerations are the only places that have them, even if offered in a centrally located Auction House.

They'd be able to (once again) set extremely high prices, because they've bought up all the available stock, and resell it at a price that gets them the highest "bids".

"But Uriel; I could simply put a Kuta or Tempering Alloy up for sale, and I'd just undercut them! That would fix the market!"

How naive.

They'd simply buy your low-price Kuta or Tempering Alloy (and they'd have the wealth already to make sure that they are the highest "bid"), add it to their own stock, and resell it at a highly marked-up price.

You and your ilk whine and complain about pricing and finding items now. An Auction House would make it much easier to find items, sure; but they'd be controlled by those aforementioned conglomerations of Trading Guilds, and the initial asking prices would be far, far out of your ability to pay for. But, you'd still need those items, so you'd have to find a way to get the money, because there is nowhere else to buy them from.

As I said at the top of this post; I've seen this very thing happen (and it's still going on) in WoW, SWtOR, LotRO, Eberon, and any host of other MMO's with an Auction House.

Frankly, I'd LOVE to keep that sort of price-fixing/gouging out of the ESO game economy.

And an Auction House would do just that, kill the in-game economy.

Gandrhulf_Harbard

I have a better idea! (post your idea in the comments)

Uriel_Nocturne wrote: »

I've played WoW. I've played SWtOR, LotRO, Eberon, etc. All of those MMO's have Auction Houses, and in every single one of them, the market is either controlled by a single massive Trade Guild, or a conglomeration of Trade Guilds working together to make sure the entire game economy works to their favor.

I'm sorry to say this, but that is a lie.

I've played LOTRO for 8+ years. There is no "massive trade guild" because guilds don't form in LOTRO to trade, they form to quest. Because there is no gating of access to the AH there's no need to be in a guild to trade, you just wander along, post up your stuff and wait for it to sell, or not.

I've played SWTOR since the day it was released and everything I just said about LOTRO is equally true of SWTOR.

I've played WoW since a month before Cata went live, and I've never even heard of a "trade guild" in that game.

All The Best

Cpt_Teemo

Mobile Auction Horse

Uriel_Nocturne wrote: »

Gandrhulf_Harbard wrote: »

wenchmore420b14_ESO wrote: »

Ok, I have to throw in my two septims.
1). Supply and demand~ The rising of prices is based off this and not greed. .

No it isn't.

Because there's a significant portion of the playerbase - those not lucky enough to be in a Trade Guild with a prominent Kiosk - that could feed into the supply side of things and so lower prices but will never get the chance to do so because the market was rigged from the get go.

Supply and Demand economics only work when there are no artificial barrier to supply or demand.

One Tamriel removed the artificial barrier to demand - Kiosks is places players were too low level to ever get to. But increasing demand without allowing for an increase in supply was inevitably going to lead to higher prices.

Add in that Kiosk prices also apply upward pressure on commodity prices and it is easy to see why we have such silly prices for some goods.

To correct that inflationary trend we need to remove the artificial barriers to supply - and that means introducing a mechanism that allows more and more players access to points of sale to sell their goods.

All The Best

Here's the part I like: I like how you conveniently ignore the rest of his post, because the rest of his post defeats any argument you've made in favor of an AH.

I've played WoW. I've played SWtOR, LotRO, Eberon, etc. All of those MMO's have Auction Houses, and in every single one of them, the market is either controlled by a single massive Trade Guild, or a conglomeration of Trade Guilds working together to make sure the entire game economy works to their favor.

The in-game economy on those games sucks, newer Trade Guilds cannot break into the market in any way worth noting, and those Guild Conglomerations use their massive wealth, plus agreements between the Guilds, to fix the Auction house market directly in their favor.

If you think finding an item for a good price (albeit with a bit of hunting for a good deal) is difficult with the Trader System in place now, you have no idea of the frustration and heartbreak you're going to face with an Auction House.

The "Elite Trader Guilds" that you and your ilk keep referencing now, would simply pool their efforts and use their already significant wealth to buy up say... all the Kuta runes or Tempering Alloy's, then would gouge the prices. But then players would HAVE TO pay their exorbitant prices, because those Guild Conglomerations are the only places that have them, even if offered in a centrally located Auction House.

They'd be able to (once again) set extremely high prices, because they've bought up all the available stock, and resell it at a price that gets them the highest "bids".

"But Uriel; I could simply put a Kuta or Tempering Alloy up for sale, and I'd just undercut them! That would fix the market!"

How naive.

They'd simply buy your low-price Kuta or Tempering Alloy (and they'd have the wealth already to make sure that they are the highest "bid"), add it to their own stock, and resell it at a highly marked-up price.

You and your ilk whine and complain about pricing and finding items now. An Auction House would make it much easier to find items, sure; but they'd be controlled by those aforementioned conglomerations of Trading Guilds, and the initial asking prices would be far, far out of your ability to pay for. But, you'd still need those items, so you'd have to find a way to get the money, because there is nowhere else to buy them from.

As I said at the top of this post; I've seen this very thing happen (and it's still going on) in WoW, SWtOR, LotRO, Eberon, and any host of other MMO's with an Auction House.

Frankly, I'd LOVE to keep that sort of price-fixing/gouging out of the ESO game economy.

And an Auction House would do just that, kill the in-game economy.

Problem with that is its already been happening in ESO, IE: TTC Website - Resellers Galore

Gandrhulf_Harbard

I have a better idea! (post your idea in the comments)

Uriel_Nocturne wrote: »

Here's the part I like: I like how you conveniently ignore the rest of his post, because the rest of his post defeats any argument you've made in favor of an AH.

Really?

Here's what I like - the bit where you ignore the fact that I have repeatedly said in the two or three threads on this subject that I don't want an AH. I don't think its the right kind of trade tool for this setting.

However I do know that any trade system that doesn't maximise both seller and buyer access with the least possible overheads is also NOT RIGHT.

Sellers are currently beset by ever increasing overheads, driving up commodity costs, and so excluding a significant portion of the potential buyers.

Buyers are beset by hardly ever being able to find what they are looking for, at best I find what I am looking for with 30 mins only 40% of the time - if that. Its so bad that I rarely if ever use a Kiosk now, there's just no point wasting my time.

All The Best

AFrostWolf

Global Auction House

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Kyle1983b14_ESO wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

DagmarSLNY wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

QUEZ420 wrote: »

Kyle1983b14_ESO wrote: »

AFrostWolf wrote: »

Global auction house gives everyone an equal and fair chance to have access to the market. Why it's not part of an MMO baffles me....

2nd, every MMO game i've played has a centralized server market place / Ah.

3rd, its worked numerous times in the past in mutiple different games. Ur system is flawed n has been since it wuz introduced. Server wide auction house with AH vendors in every major city n central hubs. With instanced shardes lag is not the issue its ZOS! Make it happen!

@QUEZ420 @Kyle1983b14_ESO @AFrostWolf
4th
None of you know what you're saying

Right back at you. There are games that charge a listing price based on the offer price. Players don't price objects high above a market rate because if they do no one buys what they're selling and they risk netting negative income if priced too high. The servers in the games are stable. Saying that things will happen to the contrary doesn't magically make them so.

@DagmarSLNY

Literally the reason you and others are arguing for a global ah is cause what....

It's not fair cause only the elite few have traders?
Cause someone told you traders is the only way to make money selling stuff?
Cause it takes too long to find stuff cause traders are sprea out?
Cause you have to be in a guild and pay fees to win a trader?

Insert whatever the reason is.....they all aren't solved by a global ah. Literally the issue now is the Rich control the traders.

So if u remove the traders and have one market. Those who control traders then will control the market.

Why would you suggest this

There are few that control the market in every MMO's centralized AH market system per server, but no one cares the AH method still works that's why 99% of online MMO games use it.

Kyle1983b14_ESO wrote: »

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

Kyle1983b14_ESO wrote: »

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

Another poll that tells us nothing.

Guessing your one of those top end guilds that hold a monopoly?

@Kyle1983b14_ESO

LOL, no, I am not in a top trading guild. I am in a good one, but certainly not one of the top. Also, none hold a monopoly though I can often find better prices in the more active areas. I do find the monopoly comment, well, interesting, since it is impossible to happen considering members have on interest, selling items to make gold.

I am just glad ESO chose to not have the stale central trading kiosk that is so easy for players and gold sellers to manipulate.

But I do find it interesting that so many ask for an actual auction house of which is the worst trading system I have seen, only seen it in one game. Horrible idea and ESO will never go for that, ever. Having to wait for bidding process to end or for someone to purchase at the buyout price is lame.

There's your problem, 99% of MMO's use a centralized server wide AH and it has been working for them since start to finish, heck even F2p browser games have a Market place too.

While you and others continue to reference other games. Those other games aren't on a mega server AND their population is split by factions per server.

You all really have no concept of what you're saying because your complaints or what you identify as the problem would only be enhanced and made worse.

However keep crying....and you'll prob get it but don't cry after it comes and you see what I've been saying all along.

So if an elite few currently control the market and put things for a price so high I don't bother using it and a global AH which forces people to compete means the elite rich would just buy all the cheap stuff up and relist for higher are the same? Because in the latter, I can actually sell stuff because the elite few would buy it up and no one would buy from them where now I cant even sell because I have no access to the market. Sounds like an improvement.

GaldorP

Global Auction House

Even if prices would stay the same with a global auction house (or even if they would go up a bit - which I doubt they would - but if they did I'd be happy about it because I could make a fortune selling gold mats which are so easy to get), at least everyone would have direct access to and could conveniently sell stuff on the same trading channel which is more fair than the current system where only a limited amount of players in the top trading guilds get to sell stuff on the good trading channels.

QUEZ420

Global Auction House

GaldorP wrote: »

Even if prices would stay the same with a global auction house (or even if they would go up a bit - which I doubt they would - but if they did I'd be happy about it because I could make a fortune selling gold mats which are so easy to get), at least everyone would have direct access to and could conveniently sell stuff on the same trading channel which is more fair than the current system where only a limited amount of players in the top trading guilds get to sell stuff on the good trading channels.

This!!! The system is blatantly flawed, its not an opinion its a fact. The whole system is a hot mess. A server wide auction house is a system that is tried n tru in games 10+ yrs n I guarantee u wont this horrible system adopted by any other game! Scrap it ZOS n get ur stuff together!

Dawnblade

Since placing restrictions and limitations on the market is clearly the best choice for ensuring a fair market with lower prices, we should stop asking for a single / competitive marketplace and instead ask for more restrictions.

Guilds should be required to flag themselves as either a trading guild or non-trading guilds, with only trading guilds allowed to have traders, and players only allowed to join one trading guild at a time.

No more alt / secondary guild buying multiple traders or placing multiple trader bids, no more one player taking up space in multiple guilds, no more same seller setting the same price on the same item in multiple traders in the same location.

In all seriousness - I can log into characters I haven't played in months in some of the games mentioned and sell items at market rates without having to beg for a guild invite, and buy items at market rates in seconds without watching a dozen loading screens and maybe not even finding the item.

Oh and in all those games - while there are players who earn income by relisting, they don't control the market as it is open to all and anyone trying to price something above market quickly gets undercut, and the volumes in most of those games (on large servers - I don't play on backwater servers with three people) are so high a player would go bankrupt trying to buy up everything.

That isn't to say niche markets don't have market players - they do, just like ESO - but those are markets for rare items that can't be reasonably farmed and / or aren't required for general gameplay (like mounts and rare BOE transmog gear in WoW, rare gamble box items in SWTOR).

General trade goods and crafted items tend to suffer more from undercutting and price erosion over time, not inflation or price gouging.

QUEZ420

Global Auction House

Dawnblade wrote: »

Since placing restrictions and limitations on the market is clearly the best choice for ensuring a fair market with lower prices, we should stop asking for a single / competitive marketplace and instead ask for more restrictions.

Guilds should be required to flag themselves as either a trading guild or non-trading guilds, with only trading guilds allowed to have traders, and players only allowed to join one trading guild at a time.

No more alt / secondary guild buying multiple traders or placing multiple trader bids, no more one player taking up space in multiple guilds, no more same seller setting the same price on the same item in multiple traders in the same location.

In all seriousness - I can log into characters I haven't played in months in some of the games mentioned and sell items at market rates without having to beg for a guild invite, and buy items at market rates in seconds without watching a dozen loading screens and maybe not even finding the item.

Oh and in all those games - while there are players who earn income by relisting, they don't control the market as it is open to all and anyone trying to price something above market quickly gets undercut, and the volumes in most of those games (on large servers - I don't play on backwater servers with three people) are so high a player would go bankrupt trying to buy up everything.

That isn't to say niche markets don't have market players - they do, just like ESO - but those are markets for rare items that can't be reasonably farmed and / or aren't required for general gameplay (like mounts and rare BOE transmog gear in WoW, rare gamble box items in SWTOR).

General trade goods and crafted items tend to suffer more from undercutting and price erosion over time, not inflation or price gouging.

This guy gets it!

AFrostWolf

Global Auction House

Dawnblade wrote: »

Since placing restrictions and limitations on the market is clearly the best choice for ensuring a fair market with lower prices, we should stop asking for a single / competitive marketplace and instead ask for more restrictions.

Guilds should be required to flag themselves as either a trading guild or non-trading guilds, with only trading guilds allowed to have traders, and players only allowed to join one trading guild at a time.

No more alt / secondary guild buying multiple traders or placing multiple trader bids, no more one player taking up space in multiple guilds, no more same seller setting the same price on the same item in multiple traders in the same location.

In all seriousness - I can log into characters I haven't played in months in some of the games mentioned and sell items at market rates without having to beg for a guild invite, and buy items at market rates in seconds without watching a dozen loading screens and maybe not even finding the item.

Oh and in all those games - while there are players who earn income by relisting, they don't control the market as it is open to all and anyone trying to price something above market quickly gets undercut, and the volumes in most of those games (on large servers - I don't play on backwater servers with three people) are so high a player would go bankrupt trying to buy up everything.

That isn't to say niche markets don't have market players - they do, just like ESO - but those are markets for rare items that can't be reasonably farmed and / or aren't required for general gameplay (like mounts and rare BOE transmog gear in WoW, rare gamble box items in SWTOR).

General trade goods and crafted items tend to suffer more from undercutting and price erosion over time, not inflation or price gouging.

This right here. This this this

alexkdd99

Guild Traders

Gandrhulf_Harbard wrote: »

wenchmore420b14_ESO wrote: »

Ok, I have to throw in my two septims.
1). Supply and demand~ The rising of prices is based off this and not greed. .

No it isn't.

Because there's a significant portion of the playerbase - those not lucky enough to be in a Trade Guild with a prominent Kiosk - that could feed into the supply side of things and so lower prices but will never get the chance to do so because the market was rigged from the get go.

Supply and Demand economics only work when there are no artificial barrier to supply or demand.

One Tamriel removed the artificial barrier to demand - Kiosks is places players were too low level to ever get to. But increasing demand without allowing for an increase in supply was inevitably going to lead to higher prices.

Add in that Kiosk prices also apply upward pressure on commodity prices and it is easy to see why we have such silly prices for some goods.

To correct that inflationary trend we need to remove the artificial barriers to supply - and that means introducing a mechanism that allows more and more players access to points of sale to sell their goods.

All The Best

If you are not in a trade guild it is your fault. There is always open spots in all of my trade guilds. Stop spreading misinformation. The only way someone isn't in a trade guild is if they haven't tried.

And care to explain how when dlc drop or items sets are added how that causes upgrade mat prices to go up? Supply and demand.

It would be much easier to buy all the gold upgrade mats if I only had to go to one location. You can't say either of those statements are wrong.

Considering zos has never shown any sort of inclination in wanting to change the way traders work, I believe we will get to keep our current system. Thank goodness for that.

Gandrhulf_Harbard

I have a better idea! (post your idea in the comments)

alexkdd99 wrote: »

If you are not in a trade guild it is your fault. .

It's my fault I don't want to be told I have to list X items at Y prices every day or be kicked?
It's my fault I don't want to be forced to spend money on Guild Raffles / Lotteries?

Yeah, it is, it's my fault I have a spine and the ONLY time someone gets to tell me how to play my game is if they are paying my Sub.

It's my fault I want to play the game how I want to play the game - something Zenimax promised us all we could do?

All The Best

Rouven

Global Auction House

Different strokes for different folk. I don't care about "your" perceived monopoly. Play how you like it and if you like to play the trading system more power to you.

I know this though, I will not jump through hoops to sell the stuff that drops for me. I always had enough gold in any MMO, I don't need it for the gold sake. So vendor I will, I'm sure there would be a lot more to buy if people could just right click and done.

Nor will I buy much, because I won't run from vendor to vendor clicking through the search etc.

I participated a lot more in this game in GW2, because it was the easiest I've come across yet, sell from anywhere, buy anywhere.

Edit: So in a nutshell, while in theory I find the existing system interesting, in practice I find it cumbersome. That's like saying "remember the great times when there were no wayshrines and we had to run everywhere?".

Cryptical

Global Auction House

Currently it doesn't work because there is a hard limit on the number of sellers, meaning that there simply are not enough trader wagons for every person to be able to have a spot. Not enough trader kiosks to go around.

Just adding more wagons doesn't fix the underlying problem of access, because they would have to add enough trader wagons so that EVERY player could have one. That would be an avalanche of traders. It would wipe out the fear of having no location that drives up bids.

'Global' wouldn't work, because of technical issues with keeping the info on the screen accurate while the listings are being used by several thousand others across all zones. But a zone public merchant would be great. Just one in each zone, that individual people can choose to hire to sell stuff. Put the cart farther away from the way shrine than any other guild trader, so guilds still have a reason to bid on the more-prime locations.