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What Trade System Would You Prefer?
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MLGProPlayer✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Global Auction HouseUriel_Nocturne wrote: »
How cute.Gandrhulf_Harbard wrote: »If you are not in a trade guild it is your fault. .
It's my fault I don't want to be told I have to list X items at Y prices every day or be kicked?
It's my fault I don't want to be forced to spend money on Guild Raffles / Lotteries?
Yeah, it is, it's my fault I have a spine and the ONLY time someone gets to tell me how to play my game is if they are paying my Sub.
It's my fault I want to play the game how I want to play the game - something Zenimax promised us all we could do?
All The Best
There's that naivety and vast generalizations again.
MOST Trade Guilds don't act nor conduct themselves in that manner, sport. If those are the only Trade Guilds you have experience with, you need to look for better Guilds.
Take some of the "spine" you claim to have and actually LOOK for a Guild that doesn't practice those tactics. They're all over the place. Literally.
Top trading guilds definitely require weekly sales quotas or raffle ticket purchases.
Guilds that don't also don't sell a whole lot because they have traders in the middle of nowhere.0 -
MLGProPlayer✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Global Auction HouseCallous2208 wrote: »Kyle1983b14_ESO wrote: »NewBlacksmurf wrote: »DagmarSLNY wrote: »
Right back at you. There are games that charge a listing price based on the offer price. Players don't price objects high above a market rate because if they do no one buys what they're selling and they risk netting negative income if priced too high. The servers in the games are stable. Saying that things will happen to the contrary doesn't magically make them so.NewBlacksmurf wrote: »Kyle1983b14_ESO wrote: »AFrostWolf wrote: »Global auction house gives everyone an equal and fair chance to have access to the market. Why it's not part of an MMO baffles me....
2nd, every MMO game i've played has a centralized server market place / Ah.
3rd, its worked numerous times in the past in mutiple different games. Ur system is flawed n has been since it wuz introduced. Server wide auction house with AH vendors in every major city n central hubs. With instanced shardes lag is not the issue its ZOS! Make it happen!
@QUEZ420 @Kyle1983b14_ESO @AFrostWolf
4th
None of you know what you're saying
@DagmarSLNY
Literally the reason you and others are arguing for a global ah is cause what....
It's not fair cause only the elite few have traders?
Cause someone told you traders is the only way to make money selling stuff?
Cause it takes too long to find stuff cause traders are sprea out?
Cause you have to be in a guild and pay fees to win a trader?
Insert whatever the reason is.....they all aren't solved by a global ah. Literally the issue now is the Rich control the traders.
So if u remove the traders and have one market. Those who control traders then will control the market.
Why would you suggest this
Because it works well for those supporting it in every other MMO they've played.
I think every MMO on the current market atm does have a centralized server AH / Market place besides ESO atm.
This may be true. I agree though, the Global AH on all of those titles is terrible.
You'll need to explain why.
0 -
Taternater✭✭✭I have a better idea! (post your idea in the comments)Same guild traders, but you can have a buy section in addition to a sell section. The regular sell section where you can sell up to 30 things, and a section with maybe 10 spaces where you can set an item you wish to buy, how much to buy, and how much you'll pay. Players can then sell items to guild traders if a member of the guild currently owning that trader has a buy order placed there.0 -
KochDerDamonen✭✭✭✭✭
✭I have a better idea! (post your idea in the comments)I think all Fighter/Mage guilds (and thieves' and dark brotherhood dens?, undaunted enclaves?) should have a public (well, NPC guild, so basically public) trader with unique properties.
- One can unlock a one-month slot with a token acquired from the guild's respective daily, these should be tradeable and mildly rare to encourage trade of the tokens themselves.
- - This one-month slot can be used for as many items that successfully sell or are taken down as the seller wishes, but will be revoked after 30 days.
- - A player may collect up to 10 slots in each guild's trader, increased by 5 per character who has the guild's quest completion achievment (or some other variable, to show a strong bond with the NPC guild in a sense)
- The trader has two windows, one containing local items and one containing global items. An item listed globally will carry a steeper sales tax, and can be found at any other trader of the same NPC guild while a local item operates essentially the same as normal traders.
With balanced numbers, this could be a highly convenient trader location with some negatives to push either higher prices or lower profits. No guild to benefit from the tax gold that is just ejected into the ether, higher cost-to-use, but planted in locations that essentially every person passes by daily.Edited by KochDerDamonen on January 25, 2017 3:25AMIf you quote someone, and intend for them to see what you have said, be sure to Mention them with @[insert name].0 -
Cpt_Teemo✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Mobile Auction HorseMLGProPlayer wrote: »Callous2208 wrote: »Kyle1983b14_ESO wrote: »NewBlacksmurf wrote: »DagmarSLNY wrote: »
Right back at you. There are games that charge a listing price based on the offer price. Players don't price objects high above a market rate because if they do no one buys what they're selling and they risk netting negative income if priced too high. The servers in the games are stable. Saying that things will happen to the contrary doesn't magically make them so.NewBlacksmurf wrote: »Kyle1983b14_ESO wrote: »AFrostWolf wrote: »Global auction house gives everyone an equal and fair chance to have access to the market. Why it's not part of an MMO baffles me....
2nd, every MMO game i've played has a centralized server market place / Ah.
3rd, its worked numerous times in the past in mutiple different games. Ur system is flawed n has been since it wuz introduced. Server wide auction house with AH vendors in every major city n central hubs. With instanced shardes lag is not the issue its ZOS! Make it happen!
@QUEZ420 @Kyle1983b14_ESO @AFrostWolf
4th
None of you know what you're saying
@DagmarSLNY
Literally the reason you and others are arguing for a global ah is cause what....
It's not fair cause only the elite few have traders?
Cause someone told you traders is the only way to make money selling stuff?
Cause it takes too long to find stuff cause traders are sprea out?
Cause you have to be in a guild and pay fees to win a trader?
Insert whatever the reason is.....they all aren't solved by a global ah. Literally the issue now is the Rich control the traders.
So if u remove the traders and have one market. Those who control traders then will control the market.
Why would you suggest this
Because it works well for those supporting it in every other MMO they've played.
I think every MMO on the current market atm does have a centralized server AH / Market place besides ESO atm.
This may be true. I agree though, the Global AH on all of those titles is terrible.
You'll need to explain why.
The Global Market is not terrible on any other MMO or it wouldn't have lasted, WoW launched 13 years ago with the same Global server wide market as it has now, and still going strong.Edited by Cpt_Teemo on January 25, 2017 3:40AM0 -
NewBlacksmurf✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Guild TradersKyle1983b14_ESO wrote: »MLGProPlayer wrote: »Callous2208 wrote: »Kyle1983b14_ESO wrote: »NewBlacksmurf wrote: »DagmarSLNY wrote: »
Right back at you. There are games that charge a listing price based on the offer price. Players don't price objects high above a market rate because if they do no one buys what they're selling and they risk netting negative income if priced too high. The servers in the games are stable. Saying that things will happen to the contrary doesn't magically make them so.NewBlacksmurf wrote: »Kyle1983b14_ESO wrote: »AFrostWolf wrote: »Global auction house gives everyone an equal and fair chance to have access to the market. Why it's not part of an MMO baffles me....
2nd, every MMO game i've played has a centralized server market place / Ah.
3rd, its worked numerous times in the past in mutiple different games. Ur system is flawed n has been since it wuz introduced. Server wide auction house with AH vendors in every major city n central hubs. With instanced shardes lag is not the issue its ZOS! Make it happen!
@QUEZ420 @Kyle1983b14_ESO @AFrostWolf
4th
None of you know what you're saying
@DagmarSLNY
Literally the reason you and others are arguing for a global ah is cause what....
It's not fair cause only the elite few have traders?
Cause someone told you traders is the only way to make money selling stuff?
Cause it takes too long to find stuff cause traders are sprea out?
Cause you have to be in a guild and pay fees to win a trader?
Insert whatever the reason is.....they all aren't solved by a global ah. Literally the issue now is the Rich control the traders.
So if u remove the traders and have one market. Those who control traders then will control the market.
Why would you suggest this
Because it works well for those supporting it in every other MMO they've played.
I think every MMO on the current market atm does have a centralized server AH / Market place besides ESO atm.
This may be true. I agree though, the Global AH on all of those titles is terrible.
You'll need to explain why.
The Global Market is not terrible on any other MMO or it wouldn't have lasted, WoW launched 13 years ago with the same Global server wide market as it has now, and still going strong.
sometimes it's worth reading.....the WoW arguments....
SMh
https://us.battle.net/forums/en/wow/topic/20743644408
http://www.wowhead.com/black-market-auction-house-guide
This is what you're asking for but it's not what you wantEdited by NewBlacksmurf on January 25, 2017 4:05AM-PC (PTS)/Xbox One: NewBlacksmurf
~<{[50]}>~ looks better than *5011 -
Cpt_Teemo✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Mobile Auction HorseNewBlacksmurf wrote: »Kyle1983b14_ESO wrote: »MLGProPlayer wrote: »Callous2208 wrote: »Kyle1983b14_ESO wrote: »NewBlacksmurf wrote: »DagmarSLNY wrote: »
Right back at you. There are games that charge a listing price based on the offer price. Players don't price objects high above a market rate because if they do no one buys what they're selling and they risk netting negative income if priced too high. The servers in the games are stable. Saying that things will happen to the contrary doesn't magically make them so.NewBlacksmurf wrote: »Kyle1983b14_ESO wrote: »AFrostWolf wrote: »Global auction house gives everyone an equal and fair chance to have access to the market. Why it's not part of an MMO baffles me....
2nd, every MMO game i've played has a centralized server market place / Ah.
3rd, its worked numerous times in the past in mutiple different games. Ur system is flawed n has been since it wuz introduced. Server wide auction house with AH vendors in every major city n central hubs. With instanced shardes lag is not the issue its ZOS! Make it happen!
@QUEZ420 @Kyle1983b14_ESO @AFrostWolf
4th
None of you know what you're saying
@DagmarSLNY
Literally the reason you and others are arguing for a global ah is cause what....
It's not fair cause only the elite few have traders?
Cause someone told you traders is the only way to make money selling stuff?
Cause it takes too long to find stuff cause traders are sprea out?
Cause you have to be in a guild and pay fees to win a trader?
Insert whatever the reason is.....they all aren't solved by a global ah. Literally the issue now is the Rich control the traders.
So if u remove the traders and have one market. Those who control traders then will control the market.
Why would you suggest this
Because it works well for those supporting it in every other MMO they've played.
I think every MMO on the current market atm does have a centralized server AH / Market place besides ESO atm.
This may be true. I agree though, the Global AH on all of those titles is terrible.
You'll need to explain why.
The Global Market is not terrible on any other MMO or it wouldn't have lasted, WoW launched 13 years ago with the same Global server wide market as it has now, and still going strong.
sometimes it's worth reading.....the WoW arguments....
SMh
https://us.battle.net/forums/en/wow/topic/20743644408
http://www.wowhead.com/black-market-auction-house-guide
This is what you're asking for but it's not what you want
I've been asking for a server based auction house, that's the whole point of this thread, and why I have commented on it.0 -
NewBlacksmurf✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Guild TradersKyle1983b14_ESO wrote: »NewBlacksmurf wrote: »Kyle1983b14_ESO wrote: »MLGProPlayer wrote: »Callous2208 wrote: »Kyle1983b14_ESO wrote: »NewBlacksmurf wrote: »DagmarSLNY wrote: »
Right back at you. There are games that charge a listing price based on the offer price. Players don't price objects high above a market rate because if they do no one buys what they're selling and they risk netting negative income if priced too high. The servers in the games are stable. Saying that things will happen to the contrary doesn't magically make them so.NewBlacksmurf wrote: »Kyle1983b14_ESO wrote: »AFrostWolf wrote: »Global auction house gives everyone an equal and fair chance to have access to the market. Why it's not part of an MMO baffles me....
2nd, every MMO game i've played has a centralized server market place / Ah.
3rd, its worked numerous times in the past in mutiple different games. Ur system is flawed n has been since it wuz introduced. Server wide auction house with AH vendors in every major city n central hubs. With instanced shardes lag is not the issue its ZOS! Make it happen!
@QUEZ420 @Kyle1983b14_ESO @AFrostWolf
4th
None of you know what you're saying
@DagmarSLNY
Literally the reason you and others are arguing for a global ah is cause what....
It's not fair cause only the elite few have traders?
Cause someone told you traders is the only way to make money selling stuff?
Cause it takes too long to find stuff cause traders are sprea out?
Cause you have to be in a guild and pay fees to win a trader?
Insert whatever the reason is.....they all aren't solved by a global ah. Literally the issue now is the Rich control the traders.
So if u remove the traders and have one market. Those who control traders then will control the market.
Why would you suggest this
Because it works well for those supporting it in every other MMO they've played.
I think every MMO on the current market atm does have a centralized server AH / Market place besides ESO atm.
This may be true. I agree though, the Global AH on all of those titles is terrible.
You'll need to explain why.
The Global Market is not terrible on any other MMO or it wouldn't have lasted, WoW launched 13 years ago with the same Global server wide market as it has now, and still going strong.
sometimes it's worth reading.....the WoW arguments....
SMh
https://us.battle.net/forums/en/wow/topic/20743644408
http://www.wowhead.com/black-market-auction-house-guide
This is what you're asking for but it's not what you want
I've been asking for a server based auction house, that's the whole point of this thread, and why I have commented on it.
Did you even read the first link?-PC (PTS)/Xbox One: NewBlacksmurf
~<{[50]}>~ looks better than *5010 -
Gandrhulf_Harbard✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭I have a better idea! (post your idea in the comments)NewBlacksmurf wrote: »
sometimes it's worth reading.....the WoW arguments....
SMh
https://us.battle.net/forums/en/wow/topic/20743644408
http://www.wowhead.com/black-market-auction-house-guide
This is what you're asking for but it's not what you want
So you found two threads.
The first is just 24 posts long in 9 months. The two threads going here are ten times that length in 9 days. That would imply the perceived issues with the WoW Trade system are insignificant compared to those in ESO - especially given the comparable sizes of the games' respective player bases.
The second is about a the Black Market Auction House a server-side Blizzard controlled gimmick AH that allows players to have the chance to bid on items that are not available on any other NPC - it has absolutely NOTHING to do with the player led economy on the normal AH.
I get the feeling you are grasping at straws here - its clear you've never played WoW if you think the BMAH is counter-argument to trade reform in ESO.
All The BestThose memories come back to haunt me, they haunt me like a curse.
Is a dream a lie if it don't come true, or is it something worse.1 -
NewBlacksmurf✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Guild Traders
@Gandrhulf_HarbardGandrhulf_Harbard wrote: »NewBlacksmurf wrote: »
sometimes it's worth reading.....the WoW arguments....
SMh
https://us.battle.net/forums/en/wow/topic/20743644408
http://www.wowhead.com/black-market-auction-house-guide
This is what you're asking for but it's not what you want
So you found two threads.
The first is just 24 posts long in 9 months. The two threads going here are ten times that length in 9 days. That would imply the perceived issues with the WoW Trade system are insignificant compared to those in ESO - especially given the comparable sizes of the games' respective player bases.
The second is about a the Black Market Auction House a server-side Blizzard controlled gimmick AH that allows players to have the chance to bid on items that are not available on any other NPC - it has absolutely NOTHING to do with the player led economy on the normal AH.
I get the feeling you are grasping at straws here - its clear you've never played WoW if you think the BMAH is counter-argument to trade reform in ESO.
All The Best
Read the context and follow the discussion. People have said they've never seen what I was mentioning. And people say they want a global ah like wow. That thread is just giving real context to what I was sharing.
You're acting like ZOS has agreed to change something. They haven't so please stop attacking me in the thread and just read the links if you truly have never seen what I was referring to.
Also if you did read you'd see that there are exact examples of what I'm giving examples of.
If you want examples more recent go to their threads as there are plenty but if you understand WoW ...you'd also comprehend that the non forum sites have guides and guild sites on how to play and control global auction houses.
That applies to all the other games people continue to argue that what I've shared doesn't occur in. It's giving context to the discussion
Please stop
-PC (PTS)/Xbox One: NewBlacksmurf
~<{[50]}>~ looks better than *5012 -
Gandrhulf_Harbard✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭I have a better idea! (post your idea in the comments)@NewBlacksmurf
I'm not attacking you.
I am questioning your arguments, because they do not stand up to scrutiny.
There is a difference.
I repeat that in well over a decade of playing MMORPGs, the vast majority of which have a centralised AH (which I do NOT want in ESO) I have never seen the kind of market rigging you mention.
I HAVE seen it claimed to exist numerous times, but on deeper investigation it has never materialised, and is usually the result of some buyer thinking they got ripped off, or some seller not happy that his/her overpriced goods don't sell.
I've seen players try to corner/rig a market, but it can't really happen for any length of time because there are so many potential sellers.
Let's say you want control the market for Kuta. You buy up all you can and relist them a 5k each. To utterly destroy any control you have on that market all that needs to happen is for someone to list Kuta marginally below your prices, so that you can not buy them up and relist and still cover your listing/sales tax costs. Sure you could take a short term loss on those few items, but if that person consistently does that, and others join in you'll soon be trading at a permanent loss.
And for the record, once again, I don't want an AH in ESO, I just want a much improved and easier to access market place that is open to ALL players regardless of whether they are in a guild or not.
All The BestThose memories come back to haunt me, they haunt me like a curse.
Is a dream a lie if it don't come true, or is it something worse.1 -
Turelus✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Guild TradersGandrhulf_Harbard the market rigging happens, but it's not really visible in games which hold no records of transactions. I myself in SWTOR have purchased a number of Cartel Market items at lower costs, then relisted them higher and slowly seeded the market with them, I've done the same in EVE Online.
You can see this happen easily in EVE Online because of the in game market graphs. Recently someone purchased a large number of SKINs which were then relisted by a mark up of a few hundred million.
I think one of the issues we face in this discussion is a lot of misinformation has been thrown around on the forums or in game and it's become fact without evidence. Everyone seems to have this "guild cartels" theory but this hasn't (to my knowledge) ever been proven, yet this a backbone argument for abolishing the current system.@Turelus - EU PC Megaserver
"Don't count on others for help. In the end each of us is in this alone. The survivors are those who know how to look out for themselves."1 -
NewBlacksmurf✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Guild TradersGandrhulf_Harbard wrote: »@NewBlacksmurf
I'm not attacking you.
I am questioning your arguments, because they do not stand up to scrutiny.
There is a difference.
I repeat that in well over a decade of playing MMORPGs, the vast majority of which have a centralised AH (which I do NOT want in ESO) I have never seen the kind of market rigging you mention.
I HAVE seen it claimed to exist numerous times, but on deeper investigation it has never materialised, and is usually the result of some buyer thinking they got ripped off, or some seller not happy that his/her overpriced goods don't sell.
I've seen players try to corner/rig a market, but it can't really happen for any length of time because there are so many potential sellers.
Let's say you want control the market for Kuta. You buy up all you can and relist them a 5k each. To utterly destroy any control you have on that market all that needs to happen is for someone to list Kuta marginally below your prices, so that you can not buy them up and relist and still cover your listing/sales tax costs. Sure you could take a short term loss on those few items, but if that person consistently does that, and others join in you'll soon be trading at a permanent loss.
And for the record, once again, I don't want an AH in ESO, I just want a much improved and easier to access market place that is open to ALL players regardless of whether they are in a guild or not.
All The Best
@Gandrhulf_Harbard
Your choice iof words and the placement are specifically attacking me. You first decided to argue and then later decided to defame my info and now after offering some context, you're claiming I'm grasping at straws and have determined I've never played wow.
All of your comments are off base and are attacking because you're not discussion anything. It's 100% focused on me and not the discussion.
You first said you hadn't seen it and it never happened and now you're saying you have.
Please stop-PC (PTS)/Xbox One: NewBlacksmurf
~<{[50]}>~ looks better than *5011 -
Gandrhulf_Harbard✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭I have a better idea! (post your idea in the comments)NewBlacksmurf wrote: »You first said you hadn't seen it and it never happened and now you're saying you have.
I never said that.
I said that I had seen it claimed, and I had seen it tried but that it NEVER actually happened.
I didn't defame your info, I pointed out that it did not represent what you thought it represented - that it was not proving the point you thought it was,
All The BestThose memories come back to haunt me, they haunt me like a curse.
Is a dream a lie if it don't come true, or is it something worse.0 -
Mayrael✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Guild TradersWhat global AH does is making all prices on the same lvl (you wont be able to buy something cheaper as it is now, if something is worth 20k you wont find anybody who would sell it for 15k, you will have prices like 19999, 19998 etc), it helps with creating monopoly of rare goods (there are 3 items on AH, each worth 500k, someones buys all of them, does it next day and next day if any, then after a week he starts to sell them for 2kk and buys all the rest if something is sold for lower price, all he needs to do is sit at AH. Now he would have to visit at least best trader spots and dig through them so its much much longer and harder), AH makes things harder to sell (oh Ive just refined 10 temp alloys, Im gonna sell it. Whats the lowest price? 10k ea? Ok so ill sell them for 9,5 ea. Few minutes later some guy does the same thing but he sets his price at 9499 so he is at first page with best price. Suddenly you are on 4th page after few minutes.)
Trust me Ive seen it all already in each mmo with AH. Dont go that way...Edited by Mayrael on January 25, 2017 1:03PMSay no to Toxic Casuals!
I am doing my best, but I am not a native speaker, sorry.
"Difficulty scaling is desperately needed. 9 years. 6 paid expansions. 24 DLCs. 40 game changing updates including A Realm Reborn-tier overhaul of the game including a permanent CP160 gear cap and ridiculous power creep thereafter. I'm sick and tired of hearing about Cadwell Silver&Gold as a "you think you do but you don't"-tier deflection to any criticism regarding the lack of overland difficulty in the game." - @AlexanderDeLarge0 -
Gandrhulf_Harbard✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭I have a better idea! (post your idea in the comments)I think one of the issues we face in this discussion is a lot of misinformation has been thrown around on the forums or in game and it's become fact without evidence. Everyone seems to have this "guild cartels" theory but this hasn't (to my knowledge) ever been proven, yet this a backbone argument for abolishing the current system.
My argument for changing (not abolishing) the current system is that it excludes significant numbers of sellers, thus permitting demand to constantly outstrip supply, leading to higher prices. And that such a system lends itself to being manipulated far easier than a system with many more sellers.
From reading these forums and in game chat I know the following:
Trade Guilds are, through the use of so called "sister guilds" buying up more than one Kiosk - driving Kiosk prices up and so commodity prices up.
Some Trade Guilds are bribing other, smaller Guilds, not to bid - depleting competition and increasing the likelihood of price rigging.
There is no reliable way for sellers not in an established Trade Guild to bring their goods to market - leading to supply side shortages driving up prices.
All of these can be fixed by implementing relatively simple changes to the current trade system - changes that have been discussed at length in this and other such threads.
I DON'T want an AH, I want a reformed Kiosk System. But if we can't have that I'd rather have an AH than what we have currently - because an AH would solve the issues outlined above.
All The Best
Those memories come back to haunt me, they haunt me like a curse.
Is a dream a lie if it don't come true, or is it something worse.3 -
Cherryblossom✭✭✭✭✭
✭Global Auction Housewenchmore420b14_ESO wrote: »Ok, I have to throw in my two septims.
1). Supply and demand~ The rising of prices is based off this and not greed. Have any of you played the new PTS? Legendary mats, motifs and even Bone style mats are going to be needed for Master Writs. So gee, just like in real life, the prices are going to go up. It's not a monopoly, it's basic real life economics. Just look at Ambrosia Recipe prices when Mythic was introduced.
2). In the current system people can "corner market" by buying up things at all the kiosks. I dare anyone who claims this to travel to all 171 kiosks in one sitting. With the load screens, CTD, and time to walk/ride to locations, this idea of "buying up" items this way is ludicrous. With a "central AH" WOULD make this possible as someone with 5-10 million gold can find all the "Kutas" lets say and buy them ALL and affect the market. I saw this in WoW. Our current system actualy makes it harder to "control" anything.
3). Only the "Big Trade Guilds" and "Greedy GM's" want the system to stay~Of my 5 guilds, 4 have a trader on a regular basis and not one requires or demands fees or dues.
My guild I am GM of is a Social Cross-Alliance guild that I maintain a trader as a perk for our members. I don't demand weekly fees or sales minimums and we have enough "freely given donations" to maintain a decent trader.
Two of my other guilds are 2 of the largest and oldest trade guilds on NA/PC. Neither has mandatory criteria and both have traders on a regular basis in good spots. Even my PvP guild has started having a trader in a Outlaw Refuge as a extra something for it's members and is going well for them. Not ALL guilds are the same. And no I'm not a "GM who is getting rich and wants to control the market". So don't say that is the only reason anyone wants to keep the current system. MANY just enjoy this system for what it is.
The current system is not perfect, yes it needs some work, but a AH would be so much worse.
And a Thank You to @NewBlacksmurf for your intelligent and articular responses to this and other threads.
Huzzah to you..
@wenchmore420b14_ESO
I'll answer your points.
1. Supply and demand, yes markets can be driven by supply and demand, but the current system actually suppresses supply as you only have less than 10% supplying the demand. So prices are artificially high.
2. you answer your own criticism of the buying up all the items, you don't have to buy from all traders, just those in the main market places, because as you stated no one is going to travel to all 171 to find a cheaper price.
3. I agree with you that not all GMs are greedy and actually do the trade guilds because they actually enjoy it, but it doesn't change the fact they have a monopoly because the system is not inclusive.
I disagree with the Traders purely on the basis that they are not inclusive, we know a for a fact that only a small proportion of the community can sell effectively to the rest of the community.
The Traders were a sticky plaster for the originally flawed system at launch, nothing has been done to improve the trading system since.
Can we at least agree that the whole system needs to be improved so it can be inclusive of the whole community, or do you believe that it should exclude the majority?2 -
NewBlacksmurf✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Guild TradersGandrhulf_Harbard the market rigging happens, but it's not really visible in games which hold no records of transactions. I myself in SWTOR have purchased a number of Cartel Market items at lower costs, then relisted them higher and slowly seeded the market with them, I've done the same in EVE Online.
You can see this happen easily in EVE Online because of the in game market graphs. Recently someone purchased a large number of SKINs which were then relisted by a mark up of a few hundred million.
I think one of the issues we face in this discussion is a lot of misinformation has been thrown around on the forums or in game and it's become fact without evidence. Everyone seems to have this "guild cartels" theory but this hasn't (to my knowledge) ever been proven, yet this a backbone argument for abolishing the current system.
@Turelus
I'll confirm that on Xbox one today there are guilds who have established alliances with at least two other guilds that I've been apart of and the strategy was openly discussed with officers on which traders we owned and when we and the other guilds would rotate
I won't get into the details but I'll admit it's wrong and problably something that should be banned because largely the players of those guilds are just joining to get a trader. They unknowingly get pulled into this scheme but there are obvious signs which suggest other guilds are now mimicking the behaviors.
One I was invited to but left soon after in December 2016 continues to ask for fees as being optional and saying they lost their bid but if more ppl give they can try and win one next week. Not discussions on which trader but just asking for more money. Then guess what. The GM all of a sudden got sick and updated the msg that they'll be back later and x person was in charge.
Let's say no foul.....just odd
In this thread ppl have given examples and some are concerning whether fabricated or real. I doubt ppl are just making up stuff cause you'll see similar happenings in other threas
My experience....one guild folded due to the GM sharing that it was too time consuming and it caused a lot of arguments and distrust as well as over the top Xbox live social interactions which caused Xbox live actions to a few accounts.
I'm not trying to paint some big conspiracy theory. I'm hoping to share that there are premeditated and organized groups who have figured out how to lock down traders.
The last bidding change helped to offset this and sense then I've left the last trading guild as it was all about selling and being charged fees, raffles and when the weekly first prize for raffles are 1-2 million gold....and weekly fees are 5k but for ppl who give 50-100k they are guaranteed something else special.....you start to see what's going on.
I don't even know how I got to be an officer. All I did was give fees and list at least 10+ items each week. It got to a point where I wouldn't even have things to sale and for me it was obvious I was waiting my time and gold.
This was around 2015- to early 2016 tho
I can't confirm what that guild is doing now but I can confirm that in Ald in the main grahtwood trader area, there are the same guilds on slight rotation each week with little change.
Sure there are other groups fighting for spots so the bid change obviously helped but when you can afford to bid 2-3 mil or more per week on Xbox one NA certain slots will be owned.
I don't think it's right but it's what I call a pyramid scheme because all the profits are going to the top. Now sure the raffle awards create a idea that it's being shared however I never won a raffle and the guild wasn't a tight knit group as we had 25-75 new ppl or ppl leave and get replaced so who knows who would win the raffle as there was so much turnover.
When the guild bank always has multiple millions tho someone's making cash cause it's not all spent on traders and trading guilds aren't focused on PvE or PvP so maybe I get a few good ppl to try and round out things but that's rare in my experiences.
It's not illegal tho or against the games rules but I'm saying ethically the way this was being done....wasn't right.
When you sit in chat and hear the guys talk about whose gonna get the trader next week and you understand that ppl are giving for a trader but the leader has decided not to win one....uuhhmmm yeah that's messed up
The price fixing.
That's more obvious but it's not as big of a deal because we don't have ads-ons so ppl do use websites and such to try and mimic pc prices but as shared before you learn that you can buy her and there and re-list in the third or 4th guild to make money.
It works cause everyone can only have 5 so even with 400+ people and many having a different 4 guilds, you could try and fix a town knowing the same guilds rotate but whatever....the design allows for competition but the price fixing is limited by the design so it's ok.
Now if you were to remove traders and have a global auction house....you're opening everyone up to all those good and bad behaviors which I'd argue isn't what people want.
What ppl want is to freely list something and have it open up to
More players.
All ppl really are asking is to have guild stores of maybe 5,000 to 10,000 members. Not actual guilds but larger guild stores. Seems more likely they'd ask for guild stores to allow expanding and or linking to other guilds for store purposes up to maybe 50 total guilds linked.
That's actually what they want but expanding the membership should be considered by ZOS and further analysis should be taken from server info on re-listing, trader lock downs and guild bank deposit amounts and frequency.
Traders aren't a problem by design but player behaviors create issues.Edited by NewBlacksmurf on January 25, 2017 1:16PM-PC (PTS)/Xbox One: NewBlacksmurf
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NewBlacksmurf✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Guild Traders@Cherryblossom
Yes we can agree that the system needs to be improved.
What ideas do you have?
What are your thoughts on a previous comment to only allow a guild to win one trader and then sit out so to speak the next week or even the next two weeks? (Would this only lead to guild hop)
What are your thoughts on my idea to offer guild store linking. (This means guilds can form a store ally which simply enables another guild store drop down but doesn't require joining a new guild). What max number of linked guilds would it have if you like this as an idea?Edited by NewBlacksmurf on January 25, 2017 1:28PM-PC (PTS)/Xbox One: NewBlacksmurf
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Gandrhulf_Harbard✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭I have a better idea! (post your idea in the comments)A lot of the issues @NewBlacksmurf mentions could be fixed by allowing players to be in only Trade Guild.
So in the Guild Management panel add a Tick Box for Trade Guild.
Only Trade Guilds can bid on a Trader.
Each player can be in only one Trade Guild.
Would fix a lot of the issues IMO.
The other way is to change the bidding system slightly.
Have Zeni set an upper limit on how much Kiosks cost.
If you have more bidders that Kiosks randomly assign the Kiosks among all qualifying bids.
Unsuccessful bids are returned.
The other thing I would do is extend the hire period to two weeks, and then have half the Kiosks come up for renewal each week. The other solution that could then be added in is to lower the maximum number of members per guild to 250. So each guild member would have access to more listing slots.
All The BestThose memories come back to haunt me, they haunt me like a curse.
Is a dream a lie if it don't come true, or is it something worse.0 -
NewBlacksmurf✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Guild TradersGandrhulf_Harbard wrote: »A lot of the issues @NewBlacksmurf mentions could be fixed by allowing players to be in only Trade Guild.
So in the Guild Management panel add a Tick Box for Trade Guild.
Only Trade Guilds can bid on a Trader.
Each player can be in only one Trade Guild.
Would fix a lot of the issues IMO.
The other way is to change the bidding system slightly.
Have Zeni set an upper limit on how much Kiosks cost.
If you have more bidders that Kiosks randomly assign the Kiosks among all qualifying bids.
Unsuccessful bids are returned.
The other thing I would do is extend the hire period to two weeks, and then have half the Kiosks come up for renewal each week. The other solution that could then be added in is to lower the maximum number of members per guild to 250. So each guild member would have access to more listing slots.
All The Best
@Gandrhulf_Harbard
I disagree that adding in a trader button and that limiting how many guilds someone can be in with a trader checked is a likely solution.
I'll give the example on Xbox one.
So let's apply this.
-Then I'd just create more Xbox live profiles and new game accounts and join guilds that way. See on Xbox one if someone owns the game digitally, any account that logs into that machine can access the base game.
To me this idea doesn't address the concerns it actually creates another larger problem
Setting a higher bid limit:
I don't agree that this addresses any issues either. It just creates a higher fee requirement.
Even if bidding started at 10 mil....but now you've assisted in established the monopoly cause truly only those elite trading guilds can bid and it removes most competition.
Extending the period....
No because people want better opportunities to participate in the market, not less opportunities to gain a spot. A gold sink isn't a solution as mentioned above.
Also while ideas have shared limiting how frequent you can have a trader seems logical but it contributes to guild hops so that's not a solution either.
Lowering guild membership is also not a logical solution. People are seeking access to more people rather than less.
Edit: missed random kiosk part
-personally I'd be pissed if a kiosk were randomly assigned because my bid is not based on "any" kiosk, it's specifically based on that "particular" kiosk. You'd have a whole different feedback thread if kiosks were random.
Ppl are complaining about how sparsely placed kiosks are as well so I disagree that it's a solution
My input at least on your thoughts....
I think what people say is the following (think):
1. More people to see listings and more ppl to list things (not necessarily more traders tho)
2. Addressing ethical behaviors which contribute to trader blocking
It's really just those two which touch many other things.Edited by NewBlacksmurf on January 25, 2017 3:25PM-PC (PTS)/Xbox One: NewBlacksmurf
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Gandrhulf_Harbard✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭I have a better idea! (post your idea in the comments)NewBlacksmurf wrote: »[
@Gandrhulf_Harbard
I disagree that adding in a trader button and that limiting how many guilds someone can be in with a trader checked is a likely solution.
I'll give the example on Xbox one.
So let's apply this.
-Then I'd just create more Xbox live profiles and new game accounts and join guilds that way. See on Xbox one if someone owns the game digitally, any account that logs into that machine can access the base game.
To me this idea doesn't address the concerns it actually creates another larger problem
Setting a higher bid limit:
I don't agree that this addresses any issues either. It just creates a higher fee requirement.
Even if bidding started at 10 mil....but now you've assisted in established the monopoly cause truly only those elite trading guilds can bid and it removes most competition.
Extending the period....
No because people want better opportunities to participate in the market, not less opportunities to gain a spot. A gold sink isn't a solution as mentioned above.
Also while ideas have shared limiting how frequent you can have a trader seems logical but it contributes to guild hops so that's not a solution either.
Lowering guild membership is also not a logical solution. People are seeking access to more people rather than less.
My input at least on your thoughts....
I think what people say is the following (think):
1. More people to see listings and more ppl to list things (not necessarily more traders tho)
2. Addressing ethical behaviors which contribute to trader blocking
It's really just those two which touch many other things.
You've completely misunderstood what I meant by "Zeni setting an UPPER bid limit".
What I mean is Zeni, without making the actual value public, set an upper bid limit.
Let's, for example, it is 250,000 Gold.
Let's say there are 10 Kiosks up for grabs.
15 bids come in, any over 250,000 are in the pot straight away. If there are less "Max Value" bids than Kiosks then the bids under 250,000 get added to the pot, highest gold value to lowest, until there are enough Bids to fill the kiosks.
If ALL of the bids are higher than the Max Bid Value, they ALL get put into the pot and 10 Winners are selected randomly.
That means a Guild that bid 255.000 is just as likely to win as a Guild that bid 2,500,000.
All unsuccessful bids are returned in full.
What this does is break the monopoly you think I am reinforcing.
Extending the time a Guild holds a trader to two weeks immediately HALVES the overheads - applying downward pressure on Kiosk prices, and making it so Guilds can function with LESS players.
Which is why lower the maximum number of players to 250 suddenly becomes viable. The ONLY reason Trade Guilds want more people is to cover the cost of Kiosks.
By setting an upper bid limit, and by halving the overall overheads by extending residency to two weeks we would have reduced that need entirely.
Smaller Trade Guilds will not only be economically viable, but because of the "Max Bid Limit" on Kiosks and new bidding "lottery" mechanic would also stand a chance of getting a good Kiosk.
Extending the residency period to two weeks is to help bring some degree of commodity availability stability to the market - customers will find things easier if the point of sale is not jumping around every 7 days.
The proposals I have made bring stability, lower prices, make smaller guilds more viable, and prevent large guilds monopolising Kiosks.
All of which are a good thing.
I am sorry to say, but your comments lead me to believe you have totally misunderstood pretty much the entirety of my post, and how economies work.
All The BestThose memories come back to haunt me, they haunt me like a curse.
Is a dream a lie if it don't come true, or is it something worse.0 -
Madness1✭✭✭Guild TradersAt first I hated Guild Traders, I thought it was a really bad system. Now though I kinda like it, it brings more competitive pricing , and competition between not only guilds, but players. I would say though, that the system is flawed, and could be improved. I don't like the fact that just about everyone goes towards a kind of traders hub, usually in the faction capital city. It kinda creates a monopoly, an endless loop of the winners always win, as they're the ones who have the cash to outbid everyone else. Maybe make it so that a guild has a form of cooldown before they can hire the trader?What is the color of night?
What is the color of the fox?
Hail Sithis.0 -
Dawnblade✭✭✭✭✭Gandrhulf_Harbard the market rigging happens, but it's not really visible in games which hold no records of transactions. I myself in SWTOR have purchased a number of Cartel Market items at lower costs, then relisted them higher and slowly seeded the market with them, I've done the same in EVE Online.
You can see this happen easily in EVE Online because of the in game market graphs. Recently someone purchased a large number of SKINs which were then relisted by a mark up of a few hundred million.
I think one of the issues we face in this discussion is a lot of misinformation has been thrown around on the forums or in game and it's become fact without evidence. Everyone seems to have this "guild cartels" theory but this hasn't (to my knowledge) ever been proven, yet this a backbone argument for abolishing the current system.
And yet you haven't proven with facts that there are persistent issues and problems with market manipulation in similar games with open marketplaces, you've just used anecdotal examples, all the while suggesting such gaming of the system doesn't happen under the trader system.
My anecdotal experience as a trader in other games (not flipping unless I found some super cheap item while shopping, just using the market to sell excess materials, crafted items, drops) is one without issues, other than from time to time getting into an undercutting match with others to unload excess items in periods with high-supply / low-demand (like dumping old materials at the end of an expansion).
In EVERY game you will find those that do little outside of playing the market (some consider it economic PVP) - and in EVERY game you will find those that will try a game WHATEVER system is in place - in that respect ESO is no different.
What is different is in ESO, a very small portion of the player base can and does exclude others from access to the majority of the market (access to a trader with very little traffic / volume isn't access to the market) simply by the nature of the system (guild roster capped at 500, handful of traders in high traffic / high volume locations, players in multiple guilds [alt / sister / affiliate guilds with same players], bidding system).
And that is before getting into the shenanigans that we all know occur under the current system with phantom guilds set up to make multiple bids, guilds cooperating and sharing rosters allowing the same players access to multiple high volume traders, bribing and paying off guild to bid / not bid, bid spying, etc.
What I don't know is how many of the defenders of the current system would support changes to the system to open up access to more of the player base, provide better transparency, and at least reduce some of the opportunity to game the system.
These changes could include everything from increasing the roster size of guilds, limiting players to only one trading guild / list on one trader at a time, increasing the number of traders in high traffic / volume locations, allowing multiple guilds to host store on a single trader, provide single point NPCs to search all traders in-game, adjustments to the bidding process, randomization of traders awarded, etc.
Players that support the system but agree it can and should be improved and expanded in such a way to allow more players access to the majority of the marketplace I respect, and will gladly listen to their suggestions on improving what we have.
Those that try to defend the current status quo without any changes, especially those that spout off nonsense about other games with open markets having terrible economies caused by the open markets, I write off as fear-mongerers who are mostly likley gaming the current system.
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NewBlacksmurf✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Guild Traders@Gandrhulf_Harbard
Sorry I misunderstood you random bid pot idea but that's way different than how it works and it's adding things that don't make sense cause there's only one winner and it should only be the higher bid....not randomly selected from a pool.
I'm not seeing or reading players asking for their money to be thrown away because the bidding process already is a huge gold sink but timing is key.
Have you made bids in the current system in any of the capital cities?
(This is a very old image online from 2014 on PC ...changes have been made since this)
So now it's a blind bid unless another change has occurred and you can only bid on one at a Time unless that's changed as well. Successful bids aren't refunded but unsuccessful bids are.
Edited by NewBlacksmurf on January 25, 2017 4:40PM-PC (PTS)/Xbox One: NewBlacksmurf
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Elwendryll✭✭✭✭✭
✭Guild TradersI'm a casual player, not in my mind, but in my effective playing time, since I have studies, far away from home and without a decent network, I can't play like when I was in highschool anymore. I have a 30 hours window of potential access to the game each week, and I manage to stay in my trading guild, donate and keep selling things.
Those who says that casual players needs a global auction house, did you ask yourself why the game was using guild traders, and what are the benefits from this system?
Guilds traders allow players to split the market. This improve concurrency. Why?
On a global market, with enough money, you can manage to influence the economy by yourself. By beeing the only one to sell a specific item for exemple. And if someone decide to sell several stacks of Tempering alloys for half this current price, it would be a disaster for everyone.
With these guild traders, there are a lot of separate economic systems that works each on their own, obviously, the prices still remains globally the same from a trader to an other, but it lower the risks of any huge scale manipulation.
Furthermore, a good active trading guild that brings a lot of goods to the customers will have a reputation, and their customers will prefer their trader, so it's easier for the members of this guild to make money. While on a global market, there wouldn't be any kind of effort/reward.
And, think about this last point, if you're looking for a specific item, and you have to travel all across Tamriel to meet all the traders, maybe you'll be the first to find the traders who sells what you're looking for, while with a global Auction house, as soon as the item is available, it might be bought by someone else, because this person doesn't have to look for the good trader.
Oh, and a last thing, you couldn't even run the game with a global auction house. Master Merchant's logs would drown your LUA memory xD
TL;DR:
Think about why this game is different, and what the current system offer you, before asking for it to be a carbon copy of the other games.PC - EU - France - AD
Main character: Qojikrin - Khajiit Sorcerer Tank/Stamina DD - since March 25, 2015.
Guildmaster of Oriflamme: Focus on 4 player endgame content.
Member of Brave Cat Trade, Panda Division and Toadhuggers.
All 4-man trifectas - TTT, IR, GH3 -
AlnilamE✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Guild TradersCromulentForumID wrote: »Uriel_Nocturne wrote: »
Here's the part I like: I like how you conveniently ignore the rest of his post, because the rest of his post defeats any argument you've made in favor of an AH.Gandrhulf_Harbard wrote: »wenchmore420b14_ESO wrote: »Ok, I have to throw in my two septims.
1). Supply and demand~ The rising of prices is based off this and not greed. .
No it isn't.
Because there's a significant portion of the playerbase - those not lucky enough to be in a Trade Guild with a prominent Kiosk - that could feed into the supply side of things and so lower prices but will never get the chance to do so because the market was rigged from the get go.
Supply and Demand economics only work when there are no artificial barrier to supply or demand.
One Tamriel removed the artificial barrier to demand - Kiosks is places players were too low level to ever get to. But increasing demand without allowing for an increase in supply was inevitably going to lead to higher prices.
Add in that Kiosk prices also apply upward pressure on commodity prices and it is easy to see why we have such silly prices for some goods.
To correct that inflationary trend we need to remove the artificial barriers to supply - and that means introducing a mechanism that allows more and more players access to points of sale to sell their goods.
All The Best
I've played WoW. I've played SWtOR, LotRO, Eberon, etc. All of those MMO's have Auction Houses, and in every single one of them, the market is either controlled by a single massive Trade Guild, or a conglomeration of Trade Guilds working together to make sure the entire game economy works to their favor.
The in-game economy on those games sucks, newer Trade Guilds cannot break into the market in any way worth noting, and those Guild Conglomerations use their massive wealth, plus agreements between the Guilds, to fix the Auction house market directly in their favor.
If you think finding an item for a good price (albeit with a bit of hunting for a good deal) is difficult with the Trader System in place now, you have no idea of the frustration and heartbreak you're going to face with an Auction House.
The "Elite Trader Guilds" that you and your ilk keep referencing now, would simply pool their efforts and use their already significant wealth to buy up say... all the Kuta runes or Tempering Alloy's, then would gouge the prices. But then players would HAVE TO pay their exorbitant prices, because those Guild Conglomerations are the only places that have them, even if offered in a centrally located Auction House.
They'd be able to (once again) set extremely high prices, because they've bought up all the available stock, and resell it at a price that gets them the highest "bids".
"But Uriel; I could simply put a Kuta or Tempering Alloy up for sale, and I'd just undercut them! That would fix the market!"
How naive.
They'd simply buy your low-price Kuta or Tempering Alloy (and they'd have the wealth already to make sure that they are the highest "bid"), add it to their own stock, and resell it at a highly marked-up price.
You and your ilk whine and complain about pricing and finding items now. An Auction House would make it much easier to find items, sure; but they'd be controlled by those aforementioned conglomerations of Trading Guilds, and the initial asking prices would be far, far out of your ability to pay for. But, you'd still need those items, so you'd have to find a way to get the money, because there is nowhere else to buy them from.
As I said at the top of this post; I've seen this very thing happen (and it's still going on) in WoW, SWtOR, LotRO, Eberon, and any host of other MMO's with an Auction House.
Frankly, I'd LOVE to keep that sort of price-fixing/gouging out of the ESO game economy.
And an Auction House would do just that, kill the in-game economy.
What about all of the other items for sale that are not worth cornering? That is the part that gets missed in these arguments. Sure Kuta and Tempering Alloy can get cornered and be more expensive. How much of the playerbase does this affect? How many people need to gold their armor or enchantments? In addition, this kind of thing is already happening, at least on PS4. They may not be cornered, but prices have certainly gone up.
Compare the higher prices on the cornered items to the better prices for all of the other items. I think you end up better off with the AH, but I can't prove it.
I'm not even saying I want an AH, but I do get a little bit tired of the boogeyman arguments that seem incomplete.
OK, but what items exactly do you think are overpriced? I mean, green recipes have mostly sold for 27g for ages. I actually stopped bothering to list them and instead make whoever character who found it learn it, and if they already know it, it gets vendored.
Blue recipes are far cheaper than they've ever been. I know because I ran around looking for the last ones I needed on my provisionner a year ago. I had a price range in mind, and I refused to buy anything above that. And even purple recipes are not what they once were.
The purple motif books (Barbaric, Daedric, Ancient Elf and Primal) used to sell for 20-25k. Now you are lucky to get 3-4k for them. Is that still too expensive for you?
I remember a time before crafting bags where I just vendored stack after stack of sanded maple, iron and other mats because the vendor buys them for 4g a piece and the sell price was between 5-6g. Not worth wasting a listing slot and not sell.
All tempers other than gold have declined in price over time, as most serious crafters are probably sitting on thousands of those. Getting gear to purple has never been cheaper.
For some of these items, if the prices go any lower, vendoring will be the more efficient option (and since craft bags, you no longer need to vendor excess stock to make room in your inventory). Also, if they ever introduce an AH, they will need to put a vendoring price on all items (like provisioning, alchemy mats and style stones).
So what exactly is overpriced in your view?The Moot Councillor1 -
AlnilamE✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Guild TradersGandrhulf_Harbard wrote: »A lot of the issues @NewBlacksmurf mentions could be fixed by allowing players to be in only Trade Guild.
So in the Guild Management panel add a Tick Box for Trade Guild.
Only Trade Guilds can bid on a Trader.
Each player can be in only one Trade Guild.
Would fix a lot of the issues IMO.
The other way is to change the bidding system slightly.
Have Zeni set an upper limit on how much Kiosks cost.
If you have more bidders that Kiosks randomly assign the Kiosks among all qualifying bids.
Unsuccessful bids are returned.
The other thing I would do is extend the hire period to two weeks, and then have half the Kiosks come up for renewal each week. The other solution that could then be added in is to lower the maximum number of members per guild to 250. So each guild member would have access to more listing slots.
All The Best
I honestly can't agree with any of those suggestions.
Because while I am in a Trading guild (well, two technically, but one of them hasn't had a trader for months, and the GM has been MIA, but I don't care), I'm also in a nice social guild that is able to secure a trader on a regular basis. We have a lot of members who enjoy the opportunity to sell their wares and we manage to get by without raffles or anything like that (because that's work). Instead, we have a couple of people who regularly donate to the guild bank to help pay for the trader, and we've recently asked people who would like to help out by donating whatever gold they make from white junk items they pick up during guild events. It's both fun and helpful. I don't see why my guild should not be allowed to bid on a trader if they want to, regardless of how many other trading guilds our members are in.
I mean, you used to go around and list all the guilds at all the traders. You know the rotation was actually pretty high (around 35% IIRC). I'm quite sure it is still the case.
If there was no other way to trade items with other players, maybe the inclusion argument would hold, but people are always trading stuff outside of trading guilds. Zone chat is full of WTB and WTS, and folks are more than willing to price check items for anyone who asks.
And I think the focus of these discussions tends to be the large trading guilds that bid for kiosks in town centres, while ignoring the smaller guilds that get out of town traders on a regular basis. Many of these guilds have no minimum sale requirements and most certainly don't have 500 members.
My guild tries to get the same trader every week (which is not always possible), and we do have people who are repeat customers because they know it's a good place to find what they are looking for.The Moot Councillor0 -
NewBlacksmurf✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Guild TradersGandrhulf_Harbard wrote: »A lot of the issues @NewBlacksmurf mentions could be fixed by allowing players to be in only Trade Guild.
So in the Guild Management panel add a Tick Box for Trade Guild.
Only Trade Guilds can bid on a Trader.
Each player can be in only one Trade Guild.
Would fix a lot of the issues IMO.
The other way is to change the bidding system slightly.
Have Zeni set an upper limit on how much Kiosks cost.
If you have more bidders that Kiosks randomly assign the Kiosks among all qualifying bids.
Unsuccessful bids are returned.
The other thing I would do is extend the hire period to two weeks, and then have half the Kiosks come up for renewal each week. The other solution that could then be added in is to lower the maximum number of members per guild to 250. So each guild member would have access to more listing slots.
All The Best
I honestly can't agree with any of those suggestions.
Because while I am in a Trading guild (well, two technically, but one of them hasn't had a trader for months, and the GM has been MIA, but I don't care), I'm also in a nice social guild that is able to secure a trader on a regular basis. We have a lot of members who enjoy the opportunity to sell their wares and we manage to get by without raffles or anything like that (because that's work). Instead, we have a couple of people who regularly donate to the guild bank to help pay for the trader, and we've recently asked people who would like to help out by donating whatever gold they make from white junk items they pick up during guild events. It's both fun and helpful. I don't see why my guild should not be allowed to bid on a trader if they want to, regardless of how many other trading guilds our members are in.
I mean, you used to go around and list all the guilds at all the traders. You know the rotation was actually pretty high (around 35% IIRC). I'm quite sure it is still the case.
If there was no other way to trade items with other players, maybe the inclusion argument would hold, but people are always trading stuff outside of trading guilds. Zone chat is full of WTB and WTS, and folks are more than willing to price check items for anyone who asks.
And I think the focus of these discussions tends to be the large trading guilds that bid for kiosks in town centres, while ignoring the smaller guilds that get out of town traders on a regular basis. Many of these guilds have no minimum sale requirements and most certainly don't have 500 members.
My guild tries to get the same trader every week (which is not always possible), and we do have people who are repeat customers because they know it's a good place to find what they are looking for.
@AlnilamE
I know you didn't quote me but the quote, tagged me.
Here is my thinking....its in another thread tho - https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/3722618/#Comment_3722618
What I do believe is within everyone's best interest is a combination of the following
- each existing trader shown as a NPC should have 5 drop down slots each week. So instead of one guild winning, it's 5 unique guild stores per NPC trader displayed.
- I also believe that offering a guild store extension or linking among non-trader guilds to see additional guild stores from the bank NPC would be a good thing with limits on how many can be added but restrictions that disable guild store linking if the guild has an active trader. Now in this, however its only to buy and browse and not to list items in another guilds store because you would invite the wrong behaviors that I've wrote about in earlier replies.
Not that its the solution, but it sounds like its touching the main concerns people have without breaking the economy or disrupting the good that does exist.
-PC (PTS)/Xbox One: NewBlacksmurf
~<{[50]}>~ looks better than *5010 -
Cherryblossom✭✭✭✭✭
✭Global Auction House@NewBlacksmurf
I quite simply want something that is inclusive of all people.
A while ago I suggested that each zone should have it's own Trader (Just One) where everyone can come a put things up for sale.
This would of work wonderfully before 1T as it would mean in the Starter Area you would have low levels putting Low Level gear for sale, so as you progressed in levels you would of been able to find gear matching your level, which we all know is impossible in the current system.
I don't believe Guild Traders work for Several reasons;
Inclusive, they are not, as there is a finite number of people who can trade.
Lack of variety, you can only list 30 items and you pay a tax you don't get back, so you only sell what you know will sell.
Convenience, no one is, as many mention, going to go round 170 traders to check everything. This also makes some Trader completely pointless.
Guild monopoly, we know there are now guildes which are multiples of the same guild. Some of these guilds are using there position to remove competition
Supply and Demand is failing because there is only a limited people able to supply the demand.
But I don't think ZOS have the ability to change the system, it would be nice if ZOS would let us know then we could avoid these posts.
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