Evasion

Ishammael

Lol at people defending evasion.

It's the single best defensive skill in the game by a fair margin. It outperforms annulment by nearly an order of magnitude. Every single stamina build in the game runs evasion... And half of magicka builds do (NB and DK).

I tend to agree with the anti RNG crowd. However, if ZoS is determined to leave it in, probably needs to be reduced to 8s or so. A static miss chance of the first attack out of five would be a good change, too.

brtomkin

I think you have 2 options for changing evasion:

1. Leave the duration the same, but put a limit of 4 dodges per cast. I don't think you can reduce the duration to 6 seconds like shields, because shields are guaranteed to absorb so much damage over the next 6 seconds. By that logic, evasion would have to guarantee so many dodges over 6 seconds.

2. Change Evasion to work similar to Defensive Posture. The new Evasion tooltip could be:
Bolster your defenses, dodging the next single target attack against you. While slotted, the cost of roll dodging is decreased 8% and the roll dodge penalty is reduced by 8%.

Compared to the existing Defensive Posture tooltip:
Bolster your defenses, reflecting the next spell projectile cast at you back to the enemy. While slotted, the amount of damage you can block is increased by 8% and the cost of blocking is reduced by 8%.

ThePonzzz

All armor skills should just require 5 pieces of the armor they are unlocked with. This seems like a no brainer. It would be like using rally without having a two-handed weapon equipped.

SanderBuraas

brtomkin wrote: »

I think you have 2 options for changing evasion:

1. Leave the duration the same, but put a limit of 4 dodges per cast. I don't think you can reduce the duration to 6 seconds like shields, because shields are guaranteed to absorb so much damage over the next 6 seconds. By that logic, evasion would have to guarantee so many dodges over 6 seconds.

2. Change Evasion to work similar to Defensive Posture. The new Evasion tooltip could be:
Bolster your defenses, dodging the next single target attack against you. While slotted, the cost of roll dodging is decreased 8% and the roll dodge penalty is reduced by 8%.

Compared to the existing Defensive Posture tooltip:
Bolster your defenses, reflecting the next spell projectile cast at you back to the enemy. While slotted, the amount of damage you can block is increased by 8% and the cost of blocking is reduced by 8%.

@brtomkin

I like your second suggestion. The skill would become an active single dodge, which I presume the combat team are in favour of.

NightbladeMechanics

Maikon wrote: »

Smepic wrote: »

The buff, Evasion, should be removed from the game. A dodge percentage statistic is awful in any pvp game. Player vs player should revolve around skill and knowledge, not rng. Not to mention how we already have an active roll dodge.

Riot Games, for example, realized that Dodge was a bad idea in League of Legends. The statistic was removed from patches V1.0.0.124 through V1.0.0.132, from August 24, 2011 to January 17, 2012.

Evasion is part of the reason why heavy armour builds are overpowered, along with other factors, such as heal buff stacking and the removal of soft caps. Some positive changes were made in the v2.7.2 PTS patch:

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

• Heavy Armor
  • Rapid Mending: This passive now increases the amount of resources your Heavy Attacks restore by 12/25% from 25/50%.

• Wrath:
  • This passive now increases your Weapon and Spell Damage by 5/10 for each stack, down from 10/20, but it now stacks up to 20 times, up from 10 times.
  • Reduced the duration of this passive’s bonus to 5 seconds from 6 seconds.

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Alchemy

• Reduced the duration of Major Vitality from potions. The base duration is now 12.5 seconds, down from 47.5 seconds.

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

• Scourge Harvester: This item set’s proc now provides Major Vitality instead of a generic non-buff category healing received bonus.

• Tremorscale: Reduced the damage done by this item set’s proc by approximately 10%.

However, there are still more balance changes needed – especially the removal of Evasion.

LOL, and the first thing you thought of was evasion? There will be no skill as long as proc sets are available.

There are lots of mechanics at play in pvp which dilute skillful play. Procs are one, as are destro ult, evasion, stealth mechanics, and instant ressing. Evasion has just as significant an impact on the game as any of the others.

NightbladeMechanics

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

Why would we go to LoL for ideas? Fitting name. LoL

Because League has had arguably one of the most progressive, thoughtful, communicative, and successful balancing teams in PvP video gaming since 2013 or 2014.

There's a reason League is the most played video game in the world, most watched on Twitch, and boasts a massive multi million dollar pro scene.

SanderBuraas

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

There are lots of mechanics at play in pvp which dilute skillful play. Procs are one, as are destro ult, evasion, stealth mechanics, and instant ressing. Evasion has just as significant an impact on the game as any of the others.

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

Because League has had arguably one of the most progressive, thoughtful, communicative, and successful balancing teams in PvP video gaming since 2013 or 2014.

There's a reason League is the most played video game in the world, most watched on Twitch, and boasts a massive multi million dollar pro scene.

@NightbladeMechanics

Good to see that you understand! It is such a headache having to explain everything.

NightbladeMechanics

Smepic wrote: »

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

There are lots of mechanics at play in pvp which dilute skillful play. Procs are one, as are destro ult, evasion, stealth mechanics, and instant ressing. Evasion has just as significant an impact on the game as any of the others.

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

Because League has had arguably one of the most progressive, thoughtful, communicative, and successful balancing teams in PvP video gaming since 2013 or 2014.

There's a reason League is the most played video game in the world, most watched on Twitch, and boasts a massive multi million dollar pro scene.

@NightbladeMechanics

Good to see that you understand! It is such a headache having to explain everything.

I keep my trusty bull*** detector by my side at all times!

Silver_Strider

Reduce the cost of Dodge roll by 30%
Reduce the effectiveness of snares by 50%
Root immunity

Just some thoughts

Merlin13KAGL

Silver_Strider wrote: »

Reduce the cost of Dodge roll by 30%
Reduce the effectiveness of snares by 50%
Root immunity

Just some thoughts

...for much less than 20+ seconds, perhaps.

30% reduced dodge would have to come at a higher Evasion cast cost, or it becomes a permadodger skill of choice without changing much.

So increase the cost or lower the reduction, and lower the active time regardless of the first two.

It should provided added protection, not full tilt immunity.

Strider_Roshin

I would prefer it if major evasion boosted your dodge rolling capabilities (make it so you can dodge anything while active) rather than RNG dodging. Reward player skill while making dodge rolling more viable.

idk

On PTS close to 6 attacks out of 7 will land which is an increase from 5 attacks out of 6.

obvuously no further need is needed. The odds are clearly in the attackers favor.

SodanTok

When the "shuffle" problem is again brough up. There are some interesting possibilities how to change it from RNG and yet fix many other things. Like arguably medium armor is the armor of choice for stam pve DPS and exactly that type really needs some protection for pve battles, where half the mechanics are undodgable, second half without proper wind up so melee cant even react in time.
Something that protects medium armor from things dodge cant (or somehow giving dodge the ability for it).

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

Why would we go to LoL for ideas? Fitting name. LoL

Because League has had arguably one of the most progressive, thoughtful, communicative, and successful balancing teams in PvP video gaming since 2013 or 2014.

There's a reason League is the most played video game in the world, most watched on Twitch, and boasts a massive multi million dollar pro scene.

First time I hear someone say LoL is progressive, successfully balanced, communicative or thoughtful. You probably mistaken it for that other moba game. There is reason why that other game got so popular even thought LoL was already the most popular.

itscompton

Cinbri wrote: »

With current exploits it hard to realize if it just so lucky rng helped your enemy to "dodge" or he abusing exploit.

Yep if it only dodged one of every five attacks it wouldn't be a problem. But when people are dodging 7-8 attacks in a row something is amiss.

thegreybetween

itscompton wrote: »

...when people are dodging 7-8 attacks in a row something is amiss.

Get it?

SanderBuraas

sodantokb16_ESO wrote: »

First time I hear someone say LoL is progressive, successfully balanced, communicative or thoughtful. You probably mistaken it for that other moba game. There is reason why that other game got so popular even thought LoL was already the most popular.

@sodantokb16_ESO

Don't twist his words. What he wrote was:

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

Because League has had arguably one of the most progressive, thoughtful, communicative, and successful balancing teams in PvP video gaming since 2013 or 2014.

Meaning Riot Games. Every patch, that is two to three every month, comes with a bunch of balance changes. Consistent number tweaks, which is what we want for ESO as well.

willlienellson

Turelus wrote: »

What would you replace it with though? It's easy to say "this is bad, get rid of it" but coming up with an acceptable and balance replacement is much harder.

Easy. You dodge "every 5th attack" replaces you "dodge 20% of attacks".

I believe this would also allow the buff to calculated differently (server vs client) and make it much harder to abuse.

Even if it didn't, it would end the whole, "I'm just lucky bro" excuse when someone is called out on dodging 90% of attacks without even dodge rolling.

willlienellson

neutronenstern wrote: »

shields got nerfed from 30 secs to 6 secs while you can still have evasion for 20 seconds, even more when in full medium with a skill that costs nearly nothing.

And with resources so high, half the time it's worn by heavy armor users. Not only is that OP, but then they also afford to wait until they get CC'd to get a free cast of Shuffle which makes the resources stretch even further.

Someone wearing medium can't really afford to wait for opportune times to cast shuffle because medium armor doesn't give you enough protection to absorb hits while you just wait around.

SodanTok

Smepic wrote: »

sodantokb16_ESO wrote: »

First time I hear someone say LoL is progressive, successfully balanced, communicative or thoughtful. You probably mistaken it for that other moba game. There is reason why that other game got so popular even thought LoL was already the most popular.

@sodantokb16_ESO

Don't twist his words. What he wrote was:

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

Because League has had arguably one of the most progressive, thoughtful, communicative, and successful balancing teams in PvP video gaming since 2013 or 2014.

Meaning Riot Games. Every patch, that is two to three every month, comes with a bunch of balance changes. Consistent number tweaks, which is what we want for ESO as well.

That wasnt in his words tho. I have never heard anything good from LoL player about their balance
But anyway, that is exactly what this game needs, consistent balancing tweaks. We are like what, half a year since last PVP patch that even had reactionary balances (like current PTS), let alone even enough of those.

Ankael07

sodantokb16_ESO wrote: »

Not this again, why everyone complaing about evasion is bringing these words like skill or RNG when everyone is permaholding block, recasting shield every 4sec, letting proc sets do all the killing or waiting for ultimate recharge to press destro ult.
The game doesnt require skill to do stuff and if you are indeed skilled player, you arent complaining about evasion.

Why does everyone complain about cancer when we have leukemia, HIV or AIDS?

leepalmer95

Change the base evasion to 8%

Every medium piece equip give 1% more chance.

7 medium = 15%
5 heavy / 2 medium = 10%

etc...

idk

leepalmer95 wrote: »

Change the base evasion to 8%

Every medium piece equip give 1% more chance.

7 medium = 15%
5 heavy / 2 medium = 10%

etc...

The give it a cooldown of 4s. If you dodge something you can't for another 4s.

The worst idea I have seen. Would make it worthless. Especially since it is not an issue for skilled players. LOL

ItsDyvim

I gank and want no counters. Nerf Heavy Armor, nerf evasion, nerf dodge.....

That is all i hear

leepalmer95

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

leepalmer95 wrote: »

Change the base evasion to 8%

Every medium piece equip give 1% more chance.

7 medium = 15%
5 heavy / 2 medium = 10%

etc...

The give it a cooldown of 4s. If you dodge something you can't for another 4s.

The worst idea I have seen. Would make it worthless. Especially since it is not an issue for skilled players. LOL

Can't tell if sarcastic or not.

sentientomega

I like my Mirage ability, and although I don't like that they reduced evasion to 15%, I'd object to any change suggested just for the sake of PvP alone.

Ahzek

Ankael07 wrote: »

sodantokb16_ESO wrote: »

Not this again, why everyone complaing about evasion is bringing these words like skill or RNG when everyone is permaholding block, recasting shield every 4sec, letting proc sets do all the killing or waiting for ultimate recharge to press destro ult.
The game doesnt require skill to do stuff and if you are indeed skilled player, you arent complaining about evasion.

Why does everyone complain about cancer when we have leukemia, HIV or AIDS?

Leukemia is a specific kind of cancer and HIV is just a different expression for AIDS though ...

On the topic at hand:
I think any % dodge chance without any player input is poorly designed, especially considering there is 0 player interaction involved. You can play as well as humanly possible, your opponent still has a 20% chance to simply avoid the entire effects of most attacks.
Even turning this into a 20/15% straight damage reduction would be better, regardless of the fact it doesnt fit the theme at all.

However, seeing that evasion is not going to get a major mechanic changes, I would propose at least a rather simple fix for the problem i find to be the worst. Make passive dodging impossible as long as your char is und the effect of any hard CC. Right now it does not matter what you do, there is always a chance for RNGsus to spread his hands and prevent certain death for anyone. Even when you are helplessly lying on the ground or running away in fear, somehow you are so agile and aware, you can still dodge the swing aimed poit blank in your face without moving an inch.
Allowing players to disable evasion during CCs givey at least some counterplay to set up small (against good players less than 1sec) windows to get some hits in guaranteed.
This alone would help a lot of frustration and stop me from biting my keybaord in 2 when I miss 2 howls in a row on that healplar with no stam left while hes running away in fear ...

Sheuib

1v1 evasion is fine even with the 20%. It is when it becomes a 1vX that it becomes OP. This is because it is a 20% chance for every individual attacking to open a short window for everyone to miss. So basically when you get 5 or more people attacking it turns into 100% because someone is going to proc the buff.

Master_Kas

Well they removed miss-chance skills (sparks rip, blinding flashes and cinderstorm) but kept evasion.

Might aswell remove evasion too then?

BlazingDynamo

Or maybe just remove it from pvp? Just because you feel like it doesn't fit with your play style doesn't mean it should be gone. It's extremely useful in pve, you know, the bread and butter of this game?

Norn

Smepic wrote: »

Player vs player should revolve around skill and knowledge, not rng.

Proc sets, Crit rolls. Since these 2 are always gonna be there, it's really pointless to defend such sort of idea. You can't eliminate RNG, even if they remove Evasion, combat outcome will still be affected by RNG.

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

Why would we go to LoL for ideas? Fitting name. LoL

Because League has had arguably one of the most progressive, thoughtful, communicative, and successful balancing teams in PvP video gaming since 2013 or 2014.

There's a reason League is the most played video game in the world, most watched on Twitch, and boasts a massive multi million dollar pro scene.

That's not true at all. You shouldn't be basing your argument on that.