Why are Stamina setups bad for Trials? (PvE)

JinMori

100% with you alcast, i saw your videos, you are an amazing player.

Dracane

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

mr_wazzabi wrote: »

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

Stamina needs to cause more damage in order to justify their low survivability. The fact that magicka now has the same single target damage output, superior AoE, and superior survivability is not balanced at all. The issue is that the magicka community QQs whenever there's an aspect of the game they're not the best at, and ZOS listens to them.

Was the difference maker vma staff and destro ult?

I haven't played trials since before 1T came out, so what abilities/sets make magicka better in aoe and what makes it better in single target?

Just curious, not trying to challenge anybody as I don't know

Grothdar, BSW, Destro staff passives (in U13) and OP Destro Ult are IMO the main factors that make Magicka overall superior in terms of damage.

ZOS needs to buff stamina by the means of buffing class passives/abilities, and stamina weapons (specifically the 2H).

The worst way ZOS could buff/balance stamina is by throwing item sets at the issue.

They can't just throw blank buffs at stamina. They need to be very careful here.
The best way, in my opinion, is to give them an ability that is great vs mobs, but not easily useable vs players.

If that's the case we need to double the duration of the destro ult, while maintaining the same overall damage it produces.

Afterall, we need to make sure powerful abilities such as that are great vs mobs, but not easily used against players

It's good for aoe, but not single target. It's good, but the best single target ult is in fact soul assault.

It's incredibly powerful against a single target; that's why it needs to be nerfed. If it was such a terrible single target ultimate it wouldn't be banned in dueling tournaments. Also soul assault is incredibly overpowered against medium armor wearers, but underwhelming against everyone else. It's like ZOS is trying to make playing magicka idiot friendly. Right now all you need to be a killing machine is just a destro ult. No brain cells or talent need; we'll reserve that for non-proc stamina players.

True I only slot soul assault vs medium armor, it's useless vs blocks and shields. But it's great vs bosses, it's always number 1 on my dps chart, elemental storm is pretty low on my charts due to the horrible uptime.

But this destro ult is super easy to avoid and to survive by single players. It needs no nerfing at all.

Strider_Roshin

Dracane wrote: »

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

mr_wazzabi wrote: »

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

Stamina needs to cause more damage in order to justify their low survivability. The fact that magicka now has the same single target damage output, superior AoE, and superior survivability is not balanced at all. The issue is that the magicka community QQs whenever there's an aspect of the game they're not the best at, and ZOS listens to them.

Was the difference maker vma staff and destro ult?

I haven't played trials since before 1T came out, so what abilities/sets make magicka better in aoe and what makes it better in single target?

Just curious, not trying to challenge anybody as I don't know

Grothdar, BSW, Destro staff passives (in U13) and OP Destro Ult are IMO the main factors that make Magicka overall superior in terms of damage.

ZOS needs to buff stamina by the means of buffing class passives/abilities, and stamina weapons (specifically the 2H).

The worst way ZOS could buff/balance stamina is by throwing item sets at the issue.

They can't just throw blank buffs at stamina. They need to be very careful here.
The best way, in my opinion, is to give them an ability that is great vs mobs, but not easily useable vs players.

If that's the case we need to double the duration of the destro ult, while maintaining the same overall damage it produces.

Afterall, we need to make sure powerful abilities such as that are great vs mobs, but not easily used against players

It's good for aoe, but not single target. It's good, but the best single target ult is in fact soul assault.

It's incredibly powerful against a single target; that's why it needs to be nerfed. If it was such a terrible single target ultimate it wouldn't be banned in dueling tournaments. Also soul assault is incredibly overpowered against medium armor wearers, but underwhelming against everyone else. It's like ZOS is trying to make playing magicka idiot friendly. Right now all you need to be a killing machine is just a destro ult. No brain cells or talent need; we'll reserve that for non-proc stamina players.

True I only slot soul assault vs medium armor, it's useless vs blocks and shields. But it's great vs bosses, it's always number 1 on my dps chart, elemental storm is pretty low on my charts due to the horrible uptime.

But this destro ult is super easy to avoid and to survive by single players. It needs no nerfing at all.

The stationary version of the ult is. However, if the caster has a gap closer of any kind (e.g. Lotus fan, chains, streak, or toppling charge) then it's a death sentence.

Riggsy

Great points alcast.

I can only speak as a dk but the fact the majority of my bar is made up with non dk skills and I have to run the meta build relying on maelstrom weapons to do top dps proves there needs to be a change. Its hard enough for many players to obtain the meta build and the difference in damage when not running maelstrom/vo/monster pieces is substantial. Stam is too gear reliant with not enough solid class skills.

FeaR Turbo wrote: »

AT LEAST GIVE US SINGLE TARGET OR SOMETHING. WE ARE FORCED MELEE? SO WHY NOT HAVE MORE SINGLE TARGET BOSS DAMAGE? O.o

It should be that the closer you are to target the more damage you do (or lessen damage done at a distance), that would give melee builds a reward for their risk.

Artemiisia

I know there are people doing 45k dps on stamina in trials, so saying they are dead is a extreme excaturation of whats going on.

For 95% of the community Alcast thats more then enough, you are again talking about that top 1% people that goes for competition aspect of the game, I have been in pugs vet trials this week vHRC since its weekly and we did it in 27mins, with many stamina players in this group.

There are sadly people that blindly follow what you say, no matter what in the end, there will always be one meta, either magicka or stamina, racial passives and so on.

Gilliamtherogue

Alcast wrote: »

Now ZOS keeps nerfing Stamina setups:
-MSA Nerf last patch (which I agree with, because Stam Setups are relying too much on those, but its only way to stay competitive)
-Aggressive Warhorn nerf
-Rearming Trap nerf (Dmg and inc crit dmg)
-Less Gearchoices viable due to inc crit modifier change
-Bow damage got slightly buffed


So why again does stamina underperform in trials?
No fake health (Harness Magicka, it is so much easier to stay alive on a magicka setup)
Much lower AoE dps compared to magicka setups (Destro Ulti for Magicka setups op) 70-80% in Trials we are fighting Trash
Approx. same Single Target DPS as Magicka setups.

Maelstrom Weapons
The only reason Stamina builds come even close to good Single target DPS is due to Malestrom Weapons, which I also think is not good. Basically you need those weapons to achieve good dps on most setups. Without MSA Weapons Stamina Builds prolly could not even f... Roleplay mkay.


Take Away MSA weapons and Proc sets and stamina would both suck in PvE and PvP. So stamina builds dmg is artifically increased through MSA waeps(PvE) or Proc sets (PvP). Take away those two things and you will most likely end up with garbage.

Magicka is in any way superior and its just pointless to bring stamina setups into Trial groups.

How to fix this? A lot of suggestions have been made over the past few months. I am not gonna list up any again bc it does not matter anyway, hence why am I even writing this lol?

To further explain some of your points so that devs/other players who foolishly say we're overreacting can make more sense of things;

On your points of ZoS nerfing Stam over and over-
- vMA dagger nerf came which was good to tune down Stam Sorc and Stam DK from over performing, and to allow other non vMA builds to be more in line, but failed to redistribute the power of stam despite NB and Templar still lagging far behind. Took the 2 lowest DPS and pushed them out from even coming to raids since they lack utility, suitability, or damage.

- Aggressive Horn nerf was done to tone down the desparity between good groups and mediocre ones. I don't really agree with nerfing it in this way, I think there are plenty other ways to make the skill more in line so that the average AND skilled players can use it in effective ways. Perhaps allow for storing additional ultimate to increase the duration of Major Force so that it is less difficult to manage. Also the multiplicative bonus was a bug, but nerfing it to 15% was too much. Simply put it back to the 30% additional CHD modifier it was meant to be.

- Trap Beast nerf makes absolutely no sense, both the Minor Force and the flat damage nerf. This skill was doing a lot of damage WITH Maelstrom Daggers, but is pretty shoddy without them. Nerfing the base damage only enforces only running Maelstrom daggers, and this skill consumes Cruel Flurry in a very difficult way to manage. Extremely poor choice to hit.

- Gear choices have always been an interesting situation for Stamina. There's a lot of diversity IF there are multiple stamina users in group (Night Mothers, Sunder, Alkosh, etc) but since Stamina in raids is so inefficient right now that the few people that are capable of pulling decent DPS and allowed to come are pigeonholed into running singular setups that only buff them.

- Bow's damage buff won't change anything. The change won't apply to the DW/Bow meta since staying on your back bar to buff up Hawk Eye would be a huge DPS loss, and it won't help the majority of players (a large post from Rich Lambert discussed that a lot of these balance changes were to simplify rotations and allow content to become more accessible, which is a valiant reason) because the duration lasts so short that missing a single weave in your rotation will cause you to lose 25% of your damage with the bow. Most people find weaving difficult as is, if they even do it to begin with. Enforcing extremely fast and perfect rotations directly goes against their current philosophy.

On your "why stamina under performs in trials"-

- Having less base health (DPS loss to run 5/1/1 on Medium so less health), less relevant damage reduction (most of damage in trials is Magic based), forced into pure melee (casters can back off for short periods of time due to more ranged options without suffering large DPS losses), and no access to properly scaling artificial health (Harness Magicka compared to Bone Shield? LUL) really drive home on why Stam is in a terrible spot at the moment. Not even to mention that Stamina has less bar space to run abilities since the only way they can pull competitive numbers is by overloading their bars with Flurry + DoTs.

- Less AoE damage comes largely from the fact that we have NO proper ultimate for AoE. Rend's and every other ultimate we have access to has terrible size, and/or extremely poor scaling. Looking at you, Shooting Star. Pair this with the fact that every class has a Magicka based ground scaling AoE (Ritual of Ret AND Blazing Spear for Temp, Liquid Lightning for Sorc, Twisting Path for Nightblade, and Cinder for DK) and the fact that there are no Stamina based ground AoEs other than Arrow Barrage.

-Approx same single target DPS but since 90% of trial bosses are cleave damage, and the only way Stamina can pull decent numbers is from Maelstrom Daggers (Pure single target...) this is extremely disadvantageous. Not only does it kill diversity, but it's irrelevant in end game content. I'd love to see Maelstrom Daggers removed from game.

Edziu

Gilliamtherogue wrote: »

-Approx same single target DPS but since 90% of trial bosses are cleave damage, and the only way Stamina can pull decent numbers is from Maelstrom Daggers (Pure single target...) this is extremely disadvantageous. Not only does it kill diversity, but it's irrelevant in end game content. I'd love to see Maelstrom Daggers removed from game.

same, I want to see maelstorm dagger removed, maybe they nerfed it by 1/3 of their power some before but still if you want go into good guild for top scores you as stamina player have no chance to go into this without those duals, these weapons still giving big disandventage to any other player who dont have those duals

Alcast

Artemiisia wrote: »

I know there are people doing 45k dps on stamina in trials, so saying they are dead is a extreme excaturation of whats going on.

For 95% of the community Alcast thats more then enough, you are again talking about that top 1% people that goes for competition aspect of the game, I have been in pugs vet trials this week vHRC since its weekly and we did it in 27mins, with many stamina players in this group.

There are sadly people that blindly follow what you say, no matter what in the end, there will always be one meta, either magicka or stamina, racial passives and so on.

I never said they are dead, I only said there is no point bringing them into a competitive trial environment.

Izaki

Artemiisia wrote: »

I know there are people doing 45k dps on stamina in trials, so saying they are dead is a extreme excaturation of whats going on.

For 95% of the community Alcast thats more then enough, you are again talking about that top 1% people that goes for competition aspect of the game, I have been in pugs vet trials this week vHRC since its weekly and we did it in 27mins, with many stamina players in this group.

There are sadly people that blindly follow what you say, no matter what in the end, there will always be one meta, either magicka or stamina, racial passives and so on.

If you're talking about a vHRC run on live, then its irrelevant. Stam will be nerfed, on live they are still worth bringing into trials.

About the 45k dps. On live, on a stam DK, I'm not far from that on a bloodspawn test, in an artificial situation without group buffs, only mine. I know a stamblade who pulls 44.5k dps self buffed. So its really nothing extraordinary in todays meta where pretty much all the good groups are in the low 50s.

Now before you say that we all are lambs that blindly follow what Alcast said, I just want to tell you, that although for most people 30k is more than enough, there are people competing for high scores all the time. And some of those people main stamina characters. They don't want their playstyle to become subpar to the point where they are of no value in a trial. I don't. Why should I be satisfied by some mediocre damage, when I can pull more on magicka builds with many more benefits? This is the issue. Its balance. Stam should have its benefits. No one said they were dead. They just are worse in every aspect than magicka.

Artemiisia

oh yeah sorrry about my post, didnt see it was posted in PTS, then yeah ignored what I said for I was talking about live.

Really dont hope it will become as bad as its seems to be in this thread when its released

OrphanHelgen

Artemiisia wrote: »

I know there are people doing 45k dps on stamina in trials, so saying they are dead is a extreme excaturation of whats going on.

For 95% of the community Alcast thats more then enough, you are again talking about that top 1% people that goes for competition aspect of the game, I have been in pugs vet trials this week vHRC since its weekly and we did it in 27mins, with many stamina players in this group.

There are sadly people that blindly follow what you say, no matter what in the end, there will always be one meta, either magicka or stamina, racial passives and so on.

We are talking progression and balance here, not what's "good enough" or not. For you, a completion and achievement are good enough. For others, a few sec longer boss fight and some lost points, might be a reason to reset the trial. Just because they are one of the few out there who take this game to that kind of level, doesnt mean they dont know what they are talking about. Right now, magicka dps does more dps as well, with less risk of dying or bad positioning. A few examples are last boss AA, last boss helra and last boss vmol, where melee dps in general are at risk. Stamina dps only performs on an end game level as melee.

LiquidPony

Alcast wrote: »

Hello, now in this thread I want to explain why Magicka is superior to Stamina Builds in Trial environments. I want to show you why it is basically pointless to bring Stamina setups into a Trial.

...


So why again does stamina underperform in trials?
No fake health (Harness Magicka, it is so much easier to stay alive on a magicka setup)

@Alcast

For now I stay happy knowing that I have to work a lot harder to no-death a Trial than my Magicka DPS counterparts.

Of course, that doesn't really help the group, but I put a lot of work into my stam NB build and rotation and I have damn good DPS, and I'm not going to retire him.

No one runs Nightblades in Trials. No one runs stam builds in Trials. That's just going to get worse with this "balance" patch. Stamplars and Stamblades in particular just got kicked down another rung since the Major Force nerf hits them the hardest.

Seems like many of the nerfs that have crippled stam builds in the end game came from PvP (e.g., Steel Tornado nerf, removal of Caltrop stacking).

I have nothing really useful to add, I just want to bump this thread so that (hopefully) ZoS sees that the community wants to Make Stamina Great Again.

Alcast

@Artemiisia @LiquidPony

It is ofcourse still possible to bring stamina specs to a raid yes. Now if you want to complete it and get the achievement it is really no problem.

I am just talking from a competitive point of view, there it makes little sense because the risk is way too high.

Artemiisia

Alcast wrote: »

@Artemiisia @LiquidPony

It is ofcourse still possible to bring stamina specs to a raid yes. Now if you want to complete it and get the achievement it is really no problem.

I am just talking from a competitive point of view, there it makes little sense because the risk is way too high.

I agree with the fact that melee should have more dps for sure than range, due to the risk given that its easier to die at melee dps than it is for ranged that can stand and fire from a save distance. Always have, and hope that ZoS do something about it, since they keep nerfing the gamestyle I come to enjoy a lot, after finally taking my time to try out melee way of playing

Alcast

Artemiisia wrote: »

Alcast wrote: »

@Artemiisia @LiquidPony

It is ofcourse still possible to bring stamina specs to a raid yes. Now if you want to complete it and get the achievement it is really no problem.

I am just talking from a competitive point of view, there it makes little sense because the risk is way too high.

I agree with the fact that melee should have more dps for sure than range, due to the risk given that its easier to die at melee dps than it is for ranged that can stand and fire from a save distance. Always have, and hope that ZoS do something about it, since they keep nerfing the gamestyle I come to enjoy a lot, after finally taking my time to try out melee way of playing

Ye, I also enjoy stamina way more then magicka, no clue why but thats just more my playstyle I guess haha

pattyLtd

I agree, i wish i could use my stamblade and stamsorc more as i do like the playstyle but my magicka sorcs are so much stronger (i don't have the maelstrom daggers).

Not happy with the warhorn nerf it made my tank feel usefull even in situation where it's actually better to bring a dps instead.
I love my tank build hope it will still work just aswell in next update haha.

I want to take this opportunity to thank you for you're builds and guide videos they helped me alot.

LiquidPony

Alcast wrote: »

@Artemiisia @LiquidPony

It is ofcourse still possible to bring stamina specs to a raid yes. Now if you want to complete it and get the achievement it is really no problem.

I am just talking from a competitive point of view, there it makes little sense because the risk is way too high.

@Alcast unfortunately my raid group does aim to be competitive (as much as we can be on XBNA), so I will have to bench my stamblade and bring out my mag DK when we get to vMoL (and I might make the swap now as we're working on vSO and I'm not sure how to guarantee survival on the Stonebreaker fight without Harness Magicka). For vHRC and vAA, I feel like stam DPS is still viable (although I could be wrong). We've managed to pull off the speed run achievements and are closing in on no-death runs (would have it already if not for the fact that we're guaranteed at least 1 disconnect on every AA Run) after only about a month of progression.

susmitds

And we have a DW nerf.

Gilliamtherogue

susmitds wrote: »

And we have a DW nerf.

That nerf was already in the base PTS patch.

Flak

100% agree, but I doubt that anyone at zenimax gives a sh...

xblackroxe

Gilliamtherogue wrote: »

susmitds wrote: »

And we have a DW nerf.

That nerf was already in the base PTS patch.

Yeah so?
Doesn't change that fact that it only makes stamina less useful and makes even the last dw users aka templars reevaluate.

Almost seems like ZOS needs to compensate for something with basically forcing every player a long stick in their hands.

Gilliamtherogue

xblackroxe wrote: »

Gilliamtherogue wrote: »

susmitds wrote: »

And we have a DW nerf.

That nerf was already in the base PTS patch.

Yeah so?
Doesn't change that fact that it only makes stamina less useful and makes even the last dw users aka templars reevaluate.

Almost seems like ZOS needs to compensate for something with basically forcing every player a long stick in their hands.

We lost 3% weapon damage from weapons. That's 40 weapon damage, which isn't affected by Major/minor brutality or other % amps because it hit a passive instead of the base. That's less than 100 DPS loss, calm down.

Edziu

Gilliamtherogue wrote: »

xblackroxe wrote: »

Gilliamtherogue wrote: »

susmitds wrote: »

And we have a DW nerf.

That nerf was already in the base PTS patch.

Yeah so?
Doesn't change that fact that it only makes stamina less useful and makes even the last dw users aka templars reevaluate.

Almost seems like ZOS needs to compensate for something with basically forcing every player a long stick in their hands.

We lost 3% weapon damage from weapons. That's 40 weapon damage, which isn't affected by Major/minor brutality or other % amps because it hit a passive instead of the base. That's less than 100 DPS loss, calm down.

maybe small amount but its still nerf way with stamina while a bit buff into magica in stats

Gilliamtherogue

Edziu wrote: »

Gilliamtherogue wrote: »

xblackroxe wrote: »

Gilliamtherogue wrote: »

susmitds wrote: »

And we have a DW nerf.

That nerf was already in the base PTS patch.

Yeah so?
Doesn't change that fact that it only makes stamina less useful and makes even the last dw users aka templars reevaluate.

Almost seems like ZOS needs to compensate for something with basically forcing every player a long stick in their hands.

We lost 3% weapon damage from weapons. That's 40 weapon damage, which isn't affected by Major/minor brutality or other % amps because it hit a passive instead of the base. That's less than 100 DPS loss, calm down.

maybe small amount but its still nerf way with stamina while a bit buff into magica in stats

It nerfed the Spell damage for dual wield Magicka users too. If anything it buffed Staves indirectly for casters. Still, 40 WD/SD is nothing, no one even noticed it go into live until ZoS said something. You people are like a lynch mob.

Edziu

Gilliamtherogue wrote: »

Edziu wrote: »

Gilliamtherogue wrote: »

xblackroxe wrote: »

Gilliamtherogue wrote: »

susmitds wrote: »

And we have a DW nerf.

That nerf was already in the base PTS patch.

Yeah so?
Doesn't change that fact that it only makes stamina less useful and makes even the last dw users aka templars reevaluate.

Almost seems like ZOS needs to compensate for something with basically forcing every player a long stick in their hands.

We lost 3% weapon damage from weapons. That's 40 weapon damage, which isn't affected by Major/minor brutality or other % amps because it hit a passive instead of the base. That's less than 100 DPS loss, calm down.

maybe small amount but its still nerf way with stamina while a bit buff into magica in stats

It nerfed the Spell damage for dual wield Magicka users too. If anything it buffed Staves indirectly for casters. Still, 40 WD/SD is nothing, no one even noticed it go into live until ZoS said something. You people are like a lynch mob.

casters..as I have seen melee mag build also are using staves now on live, only mag build using dual swods on melee as I see is just templar, everyone other mag build is getting buff from using staves while making this maybe low but still nerf into mostly stamina

xblackroxe

Gilliamtherogue wrote: »

xblackroxe wrote: »

Gilliamtherogue wrote: »

susmitds wrote: »

And we have a DW nerf.

That nerf was already in the base PTS patch.

Yeah so?
Doesn't change that fact that it only makes stamina less useful and makes even the last dw users aka templars reevaluate.

Almost seems like ZOS needs to compensate for something with basically forcing every player a long stick in their hands.

We lost 3% weapon damage from weapons. That's 40 weapon damage, which isn't affected by Major/minor brutality or other % amps because it hit a passive instead of the base. That's less than 100 DPS loss, calm down.

Its a not needed nerf nonetheless however small it may be.

And if i understand it right they changed how much less sd/wd the 2nd weapons adds which is then affected by major minor buffs.

Im also not in anyway outraged. Actually pretty calm.

lucky_Sage

as I don't do trials
why not have one dk tank stack lots of HP and use bone shield and obsidian shield to boost all melee surveil its possible that why have 100% HP bubble on all melee players at all times ive heard that some DK tanks get 14k ignouse shield which is almost all hp on stam DD cuase they normal have around 15k to 16k hp and if you add bones shield that give them over a 100% hp shield. or do yall do this but not enough

I havnt done top tier pve raids since wow so I'm don't know much about it.

Gilliamtherogue

xblackroxe wrote: »

Gilliamtherogue wrote: »

xblackroxe wrote: »

Gilliamtherogue wrote: »

susmitds wrote: »

And we have a DW nerf.

That nerf was already in the base PTS patch.

Yeah so?
Doesn't change that fact that it only makes stamina less useful and makes even the last dw users aka templars reevaluate.

Almost seems like ZOS needs to compensate for something with basically forcing every player a long stick in their hands.

We lost 3% weapon damage from weapons. That's 40 weapon damage, which isn't affected by Major/minor brutality or other % amps because it hit a passive instead of the base. That's less than 100 DPS loss, calm down.

Its a not needed nerf nonetheless however small it may be.

And if i understand it right they changed how much less sd/wd the 2nd weapons adds which is then affected by major minor buffs.

Im also not in anyway outraged. Actually pretty calm.

Live servers;

PTS servers;

39 WD difference with Major Brut up + 5 medium armor passive.

Without Major Brut I have 2823 WD on live and on 2789 PTS. So yeah, it is being affected by buffs. Maximum of 51 WD lost if you're a sorc with Major/Minor brut and Flawless main barred (altho, not sure why you'd do that)

The 6% bonus passive, Dual Wield Expert, is also no longer granting Spell Damage, so that's also a nerf to Magicka using them (mainly Templars).

Akimbro

@FeaR Turbo wrote: »

Alcast wrote: »

I am not gonna list up any again bc it does not matter anyway, hence why am I even writing this lol?

YOU WROTE THIS FOR ME AND ALL THE STAMINA BOYZ OUT THERE.

Every point 100% True. Like How can i invest so much time and money and gear grinding. To only be neglected and removed from all trial groups. NOT TALKING ABOUT CLASSES, talking about a whole fkin spec LOL

From one stormfister to another, RIP...

The tradeoff used be fair. Stam gets more single-target damage and forced into melee, while mag gets more aoe damage and can range. Now, that tradeoff doesn't exist. Stam loses to mag in every consideration. Not to mention that stam was only viable in raids with vMA dual-wield weps in the correct traits, which for most is nearly impossible.

Edziu

@Gilliamtherogue
we have still better arguments to take mag DD's instead of stamina on trials for better scores while as I wrote : stamina is getting maybe just a bit but still is on the way nerfing more, losing a bit more in dps and being less wanted to take on trials because of more lack in dps and surviv from patch to patch now