covenant_merchant wrote: »hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »covenant_merchant wrote: »IzakiBrotheSs wrote: »Eric Wrobel just keeps wrecking the playstyle of the sorcerers, he didn't like their survivability so forced us with shields then nerfed them, finally he destroys their rotation...
There is just not getting over it he literally hates the class.
My sorcerer is now an enlightenment mule.
But Wrobel mained a sorc?
As far as I know the few devs that do play use STAMINA.
If they do play stamina then how do you explain the drastic DPS decrease on every stamina build? They can't even keep up with magicka on single target.
Do we play the same game? Oo
If you personally have trouble with your stamina build, I'd suggest watching Alcast's videos, but I can assure you that a good stamina build in trials pulls more than a magicka one usually. The only reason there aren't that many of them is the lack of shields for bosses such as vMOL Rakkhat. Though if your group is experienced, you can get through it with many stam builds.
Testing a fully buffed dps test on a stamdk on the lightning attro yielded 48k dps on the pts...versus 50k+ for magicka DKs...so while your assertion may be true for live it doesnt seem to be the case for PTS..
I was indeed talking about live. I've been on the PTS just long enough to check Velocious Curse and Frost staff on my sorc, got depressed and left to QQ some more. The worst part is, ZOS doesn't even bother to explain why these changes were warranted.
IzakiBrotheSs wrote: »covenant_merchant wrote: »hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »covenant_merchant wrote: »IzakiBrotheSs wrote: »Eric Wrobel just keeps wrecking the playstyle of the sorcerers, he didn't like their survivability so forced us with shields then nerfed them, finally he destroys their rotation...
There is just not getting over it he literally hates the class.
My sorcerer is now an enlightenment mule.
But Wrobel mained a sorc?
As far as I know the few devs that do play use STAMINA.
If they do play stamina then how do you explain the drastic DPS decrease on every stamina build? They can't even keep up with magicka on single target.
Do we play the same game? Oo
If you personally have trouble with your stamina build, I'd suggest watching Alcast's videos, but I can assure you that a good stamina build in trials pulls more than a magicka one usually. The only reason there aren't that many of them is the lack of shields for bosses such as vMOL Rakkhat. Though if your group is experienced, you can get through it with many stam builds.
Testing a fully buffed dps test on a stamdk on the lightning attro yielded 48k dps on the pts...versus 50k+ for magicka DKs...so while your assertion may be true for live it doesnt seem to be the case for PTS..
I was indeed talking about live. I've been on the PTS just long enough to check Velocious Curse and Frost staff on my sorc, got depressed and left to QQ some more. The worst part is, ZOS doesn't even bother to explain why these changes were warranted.
Well of course on live I'm doing fine! Most recent Bloodspawn test yielded about 40k on a stamina nightblade self buffed (#Two-FangedSerpentOP). I think I'm about the same on stam sorc and a little ahead on stam DK. Can never be sure without a DPS meter on console. Its just that it sucks when people already tell you to switch to a magicka build for MoL now, it will be worse next patch. I guess I have 1 more month to play stam.
They feel it´s necessary to make curse a nobrainer backbar dot ability for anyone trying to fill a slot in pve.
This is a pve change through and through to make the magica sorc rotation executable even by a monkey - imho ofc.
Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »They feel it´s necessary to make curse a nobrainer backbar dot ability for anyone trying to fill a slot in pve.
This is a pve change through and through to make the magica sorc rotation executable even by a monkey - imho ofc.
@Derra
Ironically, the way sorc bars work in PVE, it will still be a frontbar skill. I will just be a little weaker. That was exactly my first instinct as well.
Sorcs will still want to mainbar a lighting staff because even on Single target fights, most of our damage comes form AOE abilities (blockade and LL), which you will want to buff. They will also want to back bar a fire staff for the single target buff to their execute and to run fire blockade, because Llambris is still going to be the way to go in PVE.
That means you could potentially swap liquid lighting to your front bar and curse to you back bar, but that would be more problematic from a rotation standpoint based on their cooldowns, and you still want LL applied during executes.
From a PVE standpoint, curse got a small nerf from a damage standpoint, but Sorcs overall got a damage buff because of Destro passives. The rotation also just got a lot easier as you mentioned. Much easier to cast curse every 12 second than every 3.5.
From a PVP standpoint, sorc burst got hit pretty hard (overload nerf prob didnt help either). Since nobody uses the other morph, I think the best solution would be to have one of each. Curse certainly did not need nerfing in PVP.
It will not ruin sorcs but it tends to ruin certain play styles. Fact.Destro changes don't have anything to do with curse, or even sorc, for that matter. Yeah, pet buffs - a pet build doesn't even run velocious. So you get a big fat "0" for illustrating why the sorc class gets velocious nerfed.covenant_merchant wrote: »covenant_merchant wrote: »Looks bad. I don't see the use.
Nobody does. Even in PVE, a 3.5 second curse was fine. And dumb dds that can't keep up with the rotation weren't using it anyways. It doesn't make things more "simple" for the sorc rotation neither in PVP or PVE.
And you won't even be able to keep a 100% uptime on curse BECAUSE PEOPLE WILL CLEANSE IT. 6 seconds is way too long, and another "echoing" bulls. 6 seconds later is unnecessary when you can just recast the *** skill.
I actually no-lifed this game since the Trueflame reset, rolling for emp and all. I seriously played almost 20 hours per day because I could and because I freaking love my sorc. But now? It just seems so utterly pointless. I mean why should you even bother with sorc this next month knowing that you'll lose pretty much half of what made your class attractive in February.
As someone playing with curse + Master Ice staff, I just want to cry.
just lol
Hey I know it's just a game and all. But still, having invested a *** ton of time in my magicka sorc, which is pretty much the only thing I'm good at, and playing with an Ice staff, those changes are unexpected and unwanted.
They promised stamina balance. Not further magicka sorc nerfs.
I know right, why should you even bother with a class that got flat out buffed across the board on single target and AOE through new destro passives, force pulse non reflect and pet buffs, when your curse now pops 2.5 seconds later? Bloody murder I tell you.
I wasn't illustrating why velocious curse got 'nerfed'. I was simply pointing out that as a class, we win out in the bigger picture. All the positive changes aren't going to be dragged down just because curse blows up 2.5 seconds later. The sorc outcry over what a massive 'nerf' this is supposed to be, is frankly quite ridiculous, especially when you look at what other classes had to take in (templars).covenant_merchant wrote: »Looks bad. I don't see the use.
Nobody does. Even in PVE, a 3.5 second curse was fine. And dumb dds that can't keep up with the rotation weren't using it anyways. It doesn't make things more "simple" for the sorc rotation neither in PVP or PVE.
And you won't even be able to keep a 100% uptime on curse BECAUSE PEOPLE WILL CLEANSE IT. 6 seconds is way too long, and another "echoing" bulls. 6 seconds later is unnecessary when you can just recast the *** skill.
I actually no-lifed this game since the Trueflame reset, rolling for emp and all. I seriously played almost 20 hours per day because I could and because I freaking love my sorc. But now? It just seems so utterly pointless. I mean why should you even bother with sorc this next month knowing that you'll lose pretty much half of what made your class attractive in February.
As someone playing with curse + Master Ice staff, I just want to cry.
just lol
Well the curse functionality and cleanse is problematic in regards to pvp don´t you agree somewhat? Every dot does atleast partial dmg against templars before being cleansed.
Curse is effectively of zero use against a templar that isn´t really really really slow.
Sure I agree, it's problematic. The best way to fix the problem is that, as others have suggested, the curse should deal partial damage when cleansed. However, there have been many questionable changes over the years that never got fixed in the way they needed, so I'm not really holding hopes here. All I'm saying is, that this change is a far cry from ruining sorcs entirely. Which is what people are making it out to be.
If this change really ruins your sorc, the problem lies with you(plural you, not you specifically) more than anything else.
The problem with this change does not lie with me but more with the fact that one, as a sorc seems to be getting pushed in a certain direction of play style(s) by, yours truly ZOS.
I for one do not have any intention to adapt by using skills that are going to be buffed now (quote "flat out buffed across the board" ) but I specifically never wanted to run with in the first place (aka destro staff / pets).
Edit: from a PvP point of view exclusively. Not involved in PvE.
I'm not gonna run with pets either for cyrodiil, I might play around with them for duels now though. But I never really liked the concept of pets. I've always been running destro though, so this is a win for me. And as far as curse goes, I don't see it changing much for me at all. I don't really care one way or another if we get this new curse or keep the old velocious.
I just get triggered by all these posts with people crying: "zos revert it or sorcs will go extinct" "zos you ruined sorcs now" "no one will want to play sorc anymore" "sorcs defining feature is ruined and will be completely useless now"
Just sounds like a toddlers outcry to me. Completely irrational nonsense.
Have you played versus good stamina players lately? Your force pulse and 8% damage isnt going to save you, and you won't last 12 seconds for the echo. The 3.5 timing helps you gain some momentum in a fight and actually win.
This change is asinine, and it completely wrecks dual wield builds.
I don't care about PVE DPS if the every gap closing stamina player kills me. Take those parses and shove them where the sun doesnt shine.
I'm not even talking about PVE DPS. I quit PVE for a while already now.
You really wanna talk about gap closing stamina players? I raise you with mines.
Besides, dual wield sorc hasn't really been functional since the undaunted webs change.
There are SO many reasons to keep a 3.5 second velocious curse, I can't expect someone who doesn't play the class in PVP to understand.
I´m debating if petcurse to buff attro is worth it atm because of attros high uptime and now insane dmg (that requires more testing though).
It will not ruin sorcs but it tends to ruin certain play styles. Fact.Destro changes don't have anything to do with curse, or even sorc, for that matter. Yeah, pet buffs - a pet build doesn't even run velocious. So you get a big fat "0" for illustrating why the sorc class gets velocious nerfed.covenant_merchant wrote: »covenant_merchant wrote: »Looks bad. I don't see the use.
Nobody does. Even in PVE, a 3.5 second curse was fine. And dumb dds that can't keep up with the rotation weren't using it anyways. It doesn't make things more "simple" for the sorc rotation neither in PVP or PVE.
And you won't even be able to keep a 100% uptime on curse BECAUSE PEOPLE WILL CLEANSE IT. 6 seconds is way too long, and another "echoing" bulls. 6 seconds later is unnecessary when you can just recast the *** skill.
I actually no-lifed this game since the Trueflame reset, rolling for emp and all. I seriously played almost 20 hours per day because I could and because I freaking love my sorc. But now? It just seems so utterly pointless. I mean why should you even bother with sorc this next month knowing that you'll lose pretty much half of what made your class attractive in February.
As someone playing with curse + Master Ice staff, I just want to cry.
just lol
Hey I know it's just a game and all. But still, having invested a *** ton of time in my magicka sorc, which is pretty much the only thing I'm good at, and playing with an Ice staff, those changes are unexpected and unwanted.
They promised stamina balance. Not further magicka sorc nerfs.
I know right, why should you even bother with a class that got flat out buffed across the board on single target and AOE through new destro passives, force pulse non reflect and pet buffs, when your curse now pops 2.5 seconds later? Bloody murder I tell you.
I wasn't illustrating why velocious curse got 'nerfed'. I was simply pointing out that as a class, we win out in the bigger picture. All the positive changes aren't going to be dragged down just because curse blows up 2.5 seconds later. The sorc outcry over what a massive 'nerf' this is supposed to be, is frankly quite ridiculous, especially when you look at what other classes had to take in (templars).covenant_merchant wrote: »Looks bad. I don't see the use.
Nobody does. Even in PVE, a 3.5 second curse was fine. And dumb dds that can't keep up with the rotation weren't using it anyways. It doesn't make things more "simple" for the sorc rotation neither in PVP or PVE.
And you won't even be able to keep a 100% uptime on curse BECAUSE PEOPLE WILL CLEANSE IT. 6 seconds is way too long, and another "echoing" bulls. 6 seconds later is unnecessary when you can just recast the *** skill.
I actually no-lifed this game since the Trueflame reset, rolling for emp and all. I seriously played almost 20 hours per day because I could and because I freaking love my sorc. But now? It just seems so utterly pointless. I mean why should you even bother with sorc this next month knowing that you'll lose pretty much half of what made your class attractive in February.
As someone playing with curse + Master Ice staff, I just want to cry.
just lol
Well the curse functionality and cleanse is problematic in regards to pvp don´t you agree somewhat? Every dot does atleast partial dmg against templars before being cleansed.
Curse is effectively of zero use against a templar that isn´t really really really slow.
Sure I agree, it's problematic. The best way to fix the problem is that, as others have suggested, the curse should deal partial damage when cleansed. However, there have been many questionable changes over the years that never got fixed in the way they needed, so I'm not really holding hopes here. All I'm saying is, that this change is a far cry from ruining sorcs entirely. Which is what people are making it out to be.
If this change really ruins your sorc, the problem lies with you(plural you, not you specifically) more than anything else.
The problem with this change does not lie with me but more with the fact that one, as a sorc seems to be getting pushed in a certain direction of play style(s) by, yours truly ZOS.
I for one do not have any intention to adapt by using skills that are going to be buffed now (quote "flat out buffed across the board" ) but I specifically never wanted to run with in the first place (aka destro staff / pets).
Edit: from a PvP point of view exclusively. Not involved in PvE.
I'm not gonna run with pets either for cyrodiil, I might play around with them for duels now though. But I never really liked the concept of pets. I've always been running destro though, so this is a win for me. And as far as curse goes, I don't see it changing much for me at all. I don't really care one way or another if we get this new curse or keep the old velocious.
I just get triggered by all these posts with people crying: "zos revert it or sorcs will go extinct" "zos you ruined sorcs now" "no one will want to play sorc anymore" "sorcs defining feature is ruined and will be completely useless now"
Just sounds like a toddlers outcry to me. Completely irrational nonsense.
Have you played versus good stamina players lately? Your force pulse and 8% damage isnt going to save you, and you won't last 12 seconds for the echo. The 3.5 timing helps you gain some momentum in a fight and actually win.
This change is asinine, and it completely wrecks dual wield builds.
I don't care about PVE DPS if the every gap closing stamina player kills me. Take those parses and shove them where the sun doesnt shine.
I'm not even talking about PVE DPS. I quit PVE for a while already now.
You really wanna talk about gap closing stamina players? I raise you with mines.
Besides, dual wield sorc hasn't really been functional since the undaunted webs change.
There are SO many reasons to keep a 3.5 second velocious curse, I can't expect someone who doesn't play the class in PVP to understand.
I do play the class in PVP though, as that's basically the only thing I do in the game now. If you think the 2.5 seconds delayed burst is going to change a lot against a stamina player, you might want to have a look at your current build.I´m debating if petcurse to buff attro is worth it atm because of attros high uptime and now insane dmg (that requires more testing though).
Atronarch is probably still not going to be worth it in any endgame PVE scenario, as it can get CC'd and oneshot by boss mechanics.
It will not ruin sorcs but it tends to ruin certain play styles. Fact.Destro changes don't have anything to do with curse, or even sorc, for that matter. Yeah, pet buffs - a pet build doesn't even run velocious. So you get a big fat "0" for illustrating why the sorc class gets velocious nerfed.covenant_merchant wrote: »covenant_merchant wrote: »Looks bad. I don't see the use.
Nobody does. Even in PVE, a 3.5 second curse was fine. And dumb dds that can't keep up with the rotation weren't using it anyways. It doesn't make things more "simple" for the sorc rotation neither in PVP or PVE.
And you won't even be able to keep a 100% uptime on curse BECAUSE PEOPLE WILL CLEANSE IT. 6 seconds is way too long, and another "echoing" bulls. 6 seconds later is unnecessary when you can just recast the *** skill.
I actually no-lifed this game since the Trueflame reset, rolling for emp and all. I seriously played almost 20 hours per day because I could and because I freaking love my sorc. But now? It just seems so utterly pointless. I mean why should you even bother with sorc this next month knowing that you'll lose pretty much half of what made your class attractive in February.
As someone playing with curse + Master Ice staff, I just want to cry.
just lol
Hey I know it's just a game and all. But still, having invested a *** ton of time in my magicka sorc, which is pretty much the only thing I'm good at, and playing with an Ice staff, those changes are unexpected and unwanted.
They promised stamina balance. Not further magicka sorc nerfs.
I know right, why should you even bother with a class that got flat out buffed across the board on single target and AOE through new destro passives, force pulse non reflect and pet buffs, when your curse now pops 2.5 seconds later? Bloody murder I tell you.
I wasn't illustrating why velocious curse got 'nerfed'. I was simply pointing out that as a class, we win out in the bigger picture. All the positive changes aren't going to be dragged down just because curse blows up 2.5 seconds later. The sorc outcry over what a massive 'nerf' this is supposed to be, is frankly quite ridiculous, especially when you look at what other classes had to take in (templars).covenant_merchant wrote: »Looks bad. I don't see the use.
Nobody does. Even in PVE, a 3.5 second curse was fine. And dumb dds that can't keep up with the rotation weren't using it anyways. It doesn't make things more "simple" for the sorc rotation neither in PVP or PVE.
And you won't even be able to keep a 100% uptime on curse BECAUSE PEOPLE WILL CLEANSE IT. 6 seconds is way too long, and another "echoing" bulls. 6 seconds later is unnecessary when you can just recast the *** skill.
I actually no-lifed this game since the Trueflame reset, rolling for emp and all. I seriously played almost 20 hours per day because I could and because I freaking love my sorc. But now? It just seems so utterly pointless. I mean why should you even bother with sorc this next month knowing that you'll lose pretty much half of what made your class attractive in February.
As someone playing with curse + Master Ice staff, I just want to cry.
just lol
Well the curse functionality and cleanse is problematic in regards to pvp don´t you agree somewhat? Every dot does atleast partial dmg against templars before being cleansed.
Curse is effectively of zero use against a templar that isn´t really really really slow.
Sure I agree, it's problematic. The best way to fix the problem is that, as others have suggested, the curse should deal partial damage when cleansed. However, there have been many questionable changes over the years that never got fixed in the way they needed, so I'm not really holding hopes here. All I'm saying is, that this change is a far cry from ruining sorcs entirely. Which is what people are making it out to be.
If this change really ruins your sorc, the problem lies with you(plural you, not you specifically) more than anything else.
The problem with this change does not lie with me but more with the fact that one, as a sorc seems to be getting pushed in a certain direction of play style(s) by, yours truly ZOS.
I for one do not have any intention to adapt by using skills that are going to be buffed now (quote "flat out buffed across the board" ) but I specifically never wanted to run with in the first place (aka destro staff / pets).
Edit: from a PvP point of view exclusively. Not involved in PvE.
I'm not gonna run with pets either for cyrodiil, I might play around with them for duels now though. But I never really liked the concept of pets. I've always been running destro though, so this is a win for me. And as far as curse goes, I don't see it changing much for me at all. I don't really care one way or another if we get this new curse or keep the old velocious.
I just get triggered by all these posts with people crying: "zos revert it or sorcs will go extinct" "zos you ruined sorcs now" "no one will want to play sorc anymore" "sorcs defining feature is ruined and will be completely useless now"
Just sounds like a toddlers outcry to me. Completely irrational nonsense.
Have you played versus good stamina players lately? Your force pulse and 8% damage isnt going to save you, and you won't last 12 seconds for the echo. The 3.5 timing helps you gain some momentum in a fight and actually win.
This change is asinine, and it completely wrecks dual wield builds.
I don't care about PVE DPS if the every gap closing stamina player kills me. Take those parses and shove them where the sun doesnt shine.
I'm not even talking about PVE DPS. I quit PVE for a while already now.
You really wanna talk about gap closing stamina players? I raise you with mines.
Besides, dual wield sorc hasn't really been functional since the undaunted webs change.
There are SO many reasons to keep a 3.5 second velocious curse, I can't expect someone who doesn't play the class in PVP to understand.
I do play the class in PVP though, as that's basically the only thing I do in the game now. If you think the 2.5 seconds delayed burst is going to change a lot against a stamina player, you might want to have a look at your current build.I´m debating if petcurse to buff attro is worth it atm because of attros high uptime and now insane dmg (that requires more testing though).
Atronarch is probably still not going to be worth it in any endgame PVE scenario, as it can get CC'd and oneshot by boss mechanics.
HoloYoitsu wrote: »This is ridiculous, this and the other sorc changes are so transparently just an effort to push sorcs into pet builds. I guess their metrics showed that "not enough" sorcs played w/ pets.
covenant_merchant wrote: »IzakiBrotheSs wrote: »covenant_merchant wrote: »hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »covenant_merchant wrote: »IzakiBrotheSs wrote: »Eric Wrobel just keeps wrecking the playstyle of the sorcerers, he didn't like their survivability so forced us with shields then nerfed them, finally he destroys their rotation...
There is just not getting over it he literally hates the class.
My sorcerer is now an enlightenment mule.
But Wrobel mained a sorc?
As far as I know the few devs that do play use STAMINA.
If they do play stamina then how do you explain the drastic DPS decrease on every stamina build? They can't even keep up with magicka on single target.
Do we play the same game? Oo
If you personally have trouble with your stamina build, I'd suggest watching Alcast's videos, but I can assure you that a good stamina build in trials pulls more than a magicka one usually. The only reason there aren't that many of them is the lack of shields for bosses such as vMOL Rakkhat. Though if your group is experienced, you can get through it with many stam builds.
Testing a fully buffed dps test on a stamdk on the lightning attro yielded 48k dps on the pts...versus 50k+ for magicka DKs...so while your assertion may be true for live it doesnt seem to be the case for PTS..
I was indeed talking about live. I've been on the PTS just long enough to check Velocious Curse and Frost staff on my sorc, got depressed and left to QQ some more. The worst part is, ZOS doesn't even bother to explain why these changes were warranted.
Well of course on live I'm doing fine! Most recent Bloodspawn test yielded about 40k on a stamina nightblade self buffed (#Two-FangedSerpentOP). I think I'm about the same on stam sorc and a little ahead on stam DK. Can never be sure without a DPS meter on console. Its just that it sucks when people already tell you to switch to a magicka build for MoL now, it will be worse next patch. I guess I have 1 more month to play stam.
Go PVP. Stam will be the way to go there. And for vMOL yeah, you do need more magicka builds if only because of shields. But every DPS build will be nerfed either way without any reason other than incompetence or apathy from the devs.
potirondb16_ESO wrote: »Can't actually believee it is a nerf, it's a 33% damage reduction for a 66% cost reduction... Overalll a dps nerf yes, a major issue in pvp (if cured) but also a significant sustain bonus in pve...
Yolokin_Swagonborn wrote: »Lol just look at this poll.
Time to revert this ZOS. Don't fix what's not broken. There's plenty broken. Curse was fine the way it is.
ScooberSteve wrote: »Its not as bad as you think they explained they are trying to simplify. Dps will probably be about same check out this thread https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/312510/velocious-haunting-curse-side-by-side-theoretical-test
ScooberSteve wrote: »Yolokin_Swagonborn wrote: »Lol just look at this poll.
Time to revert this ZOS. Don't fix what's not broken. There's plenty broken. Curse was fine the way it is.
90% of the people that said no havent properly tested it yet. Bit to early to tell
Then just slide the first "pop" back to 3.5s and leave everything else the way it is!Yolokin_Swagonborn wrote: »ScooberSteve wrote: »Yolokin_Swagonborn wrote: »Lol just look at this poll.
Time to revert this ZOS. Don't fix what's not broken. There's plenty broken. Curse was fine the way it is.
90% of the people that said no havent properly tested it yet. Bit to early to tell
ZOS barely has time to change anything. Once its on PTS, its practically life. Its never too early to stomp on bad ideas.