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Does Velocious curse need a nerf ?
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Izaki✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭NoOR they could do something cool. Keep a 6 sec duration and apply a 10℅ damage bonus on the Cursed target. That would actually be a DPS boost in PvE and a very nice ability for PvP. Naaaah its too OP.@ Izaki #PCEU
#FrenchKiss #GoneFor2YearsAndMyGuildDoesn'tRaidAnymore
#MoreDPSthanYou
#Stamblade2 -
FriedEggSandwich✭✭✭✭✭
✭NoIzakiBrotheSs wrote: »OR they could do something cool. Keep a 6 sec duration and apply a 10℅ damage bonus on the Cursed target. That would actually be a DPS boost in PvE and a very nice ability for PvP. Naaaah its too OP.
Like a Zenyatta discord orb from overwatch? I like it.PC | EU0 -
Minalan✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭NoIzakiBrotheSs wrote: »OR they could do something cool. Keep a 6 sec duration and apply a 10℅ damage bonus on the Cursed target. That would actually be a DPS boost in PvE and a very nice ability for PvP. Naaaah its too OP.
Or.. Keep it as-is because some of us LIKE DW sorc builds.5 -
Izaki✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭NoIzakiBrotheSs wrote: »OR they could do something cool. Keep a 6 sec duration and apply a 10℅ damage bonus on the Cursed target. That would actually be a DPS boost in PvE and a very nice ability for PvP. Naaaah its too OP.
Or.. Keep it as-is because some of us LIKE DW sorc builds.
Haha I know I know. I'd like my Velocious back too.@ Izaki #PCEU
#FrenchKiss #GoneFor2YearsAndMyGuildDoesn'tRaidAnymore
#MoreDPSthanYou
#Stamblade0 -
STEVIL✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭YesFather_X_Zombie wrote: »Sorcs are supposed to deal high timed burst damage, this is what defines our class just like stealth attacks define nightblades and etc.
So taking away our timed burst damage is the right way to go? That's like adding a cast time to surprise attack
Wrobel......if you hate mag Sorcs just make all of our abilities cost stam and be done with it.
These patch notes are really dissapointing
Really? Really?
i thought i had seen thread upon thread and post upon post describing streak as the "clas defining" skill back in the day when streak was being changed.
Then, i am really sure i saw that shields were class defining too when they were getting changes made.
Now it curse and its role in a very specific 3s timer combined boom burst (as opposed to the same burst at the 6s mark) that is now the new definition of "class defining" for sorcs, right?
Do i have that down?
A while back i determined from observation that "class defining" just means "whatever you are talking about changing to anything weaker or that to something i dont like" and its good to see that the sorc class is so versatile that every time a change is made to a "class defining" aspect it just miraculously develops a new class definition.
A class that versatile and robust = obviously OP.
Multiple things can define a class. For sorcs, mobility, high damage, and shields to help mitigate some damage to stay alive long enough all define a sorc.
Just to be clear you just said movement, offense and defense are all class defining for sorcs.
Feel sorry for all the other classes then.Proudly skooma free while talks-when-drunk is in mandatory public housing.
YFMV Your Fun May Vary.
First Law of Nerf-o-Dynamics
"The good way I used to get good kills *with good skill* was good but the way others kill me now is bad."0 -
STEVIL✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭YesFather_X_Zombie wrote: »Sorcs are supposed to deal high timed burst damage, this is what defines our class just like stealth attacks define nightblades and etc.
So taking away our timed burst damage is the right way to go? That's like adding a cast time to surprise attack
Wrobel......if you hate mag Sorcs just make all of our abilities cost stam and be done with it.
These patch notes are really dissapointing
Really? Really?
i thought i had seen thread upon thread and post upon post describing streak as the "clas defining" skill back in the day when streak was being changed.
Then, i am really sure i saw that shields were class defining too when they were getting changes made.
Now it curse and its role in a very specific 3s timer combined boom burst (as opposed to the same burst at the 6s mark) that is now the new definition of "class defining" for sorcs, right?
Do i have that down?
A while back i determined from observation that "class defining" just means "whatever you are talking about changing to anything weaker or that to something i dont like" and its good to see that the sorc class is so versatile that every time a change is made to a "class defining" aspect it just miraculously develops a new class definition.
A class that versatile and robust = obviously OP.
So you're happy we got a fat DPS nerf.
Want a cookie?
No... but i am unhappy with everything being a class defining aspect when it gets reviewed. its basically a cheap easy throw in ephemera that just skips the "what really happens" with emotional BS.
if you dont like the change, argue the numbers not some holy sanctified status that gets trotted out every time it is needed.
personally, most of the time i see a lot of comments describing a "best way" to get kills i have a knee jerk "OP" vibe going.
Seen quite a bit of the curse/frags/wrath type comments going on and the key was the curse timing.
So i am not surprised its getting removed - the short timer - ESPECIALLY given the impact of lag on short timer counters - but as i suggested on another thread there are a lot of non-3s options they could pursue instead of the 6s second boom.
but 3.5s velicurse morph is not class defining... or should e go back to the last couple patches and see all the "only class defining" threads to prove that?
Throwing aside the pointless words 'class defining' in favor of facts:
Ultimates aside, magicka sorc has two damage attacks and one execute . Crystal fragments and curse. Everything else we generally use is a non-sorc ability available to well, anyone with a staff or guild skill-line.
Nerfing one of our two attacks is crippling. I don't want to over-use the 'class defining' metaphor, but there are only TWO attacks we can reasonably use to defend ourselves and apply pressure to an enemy. Now we have ONE.
The nerf is over 40%, someone else did the math. So now we have to turn to non-sorc abilities to apply pressure to someone spamming vigor or BoL, because what pressure we have isn't enough. Now we have a gaping 6 second window where 50% of our class DPS abilities can be healed through, shielded, nullified with purge, or just ignored.
I say 'ignored', because if your opponent kills you outright it doesn't explode. Without pressure on an enemy (healing, shielding, or purging a 3.5 second curse) they are free to go on the offensive harder and more often. You are going to die if you cannot gain control of the fight, and you have no capability to do so with a 6 second burst window.
My apologies for not posting this much more cogent argument earlier. But when I say "six seconds is a crippling nerf", I mean it. And most people who play the game and PVP or duel frequently with this understand the consequences perfectly.
Really, i will worry about "if we just consider our non-ulti class skills and ignore weapon skills too" based "analysis" when i see even mid level much less end gamr characters running weaponless non-ult equipped builds.
Esp in the light of 8% buff in single target or aoe dmg from staves.
As i said, i think the dbl 6s isnt a goid approach if they wsnt to address the 3.5burst (lag) issues but there are a lot of ways.
One suggestion i gave was to give an immediate dot that runs thtu the 6s at the expense of the aoe.
You could say take the aoe dmg (or even the second 6s dmg) and have it distributed over seconds 1-5. This can result in a smaller dps decrease or even eliminate it but remove the 3.5s burst. (Counter measures notwithstanding.)
There are a lot of wsys to get something better than the 12s option that dont involve the often pointless "no way leave it alone" rants.
Edited by STEVIL on January 5, 2017 7:20AMProudly skooma free while talks-when-drunk is in mandatory public housing.
YFMV Your Fun May Vary.
First Law of Nerf-o-Dynamics
"The good way I used to get good kills *with good skill* was good but the way others kill me now is bad."0 -
Digiman✭✭✭✭✭I've stopped playing sorc since they nerfed them to the ground in DBEric Wrobel just keeps wrecking the playstyle of the sorcerers, he didn't like their survivability so forced us with shields then nerfed them, finally he destroys their rotation...
There is just not getting over it he literally hates the class.
My sorcerer is now an enlightenment mule.6 -
Hashtag_✭✭✭✭✭Eric Wrobel just keeps wrecking the playstyle of the sorcerers, he didn't like their survivability so forced us with shields then nerfed them, finally he destroys their rotation...
There is just not getting over it he literally hates the class.
My sorcerer is now an enlightenment mule.
But Wrobel mained a sorc?0 -
Derra✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Nocovenant_merchant wrote: »Looks bad. I don't see the use.
Nobody does. Even in PVE, a 3.5 second curse was fine. And dumb dds that can't keep up with the rotation weren't using it anyways. It doesn't make things more "simple" for the sorc rotation neither in PVP or PVE.
And you won't even be able to keep a 100% uptime on curse BECAUSE PEOPLE WILL CLEANSE IT. 6 seconds is way too long, and another "echoing" bulls. 6 seconds later is unnecessary when you can just recast the *** skill.
I actually no-lifed this game since the Trueflame reset, rolling for emp and all. I seriously played almost 20 hours per day because I could and because I freaking love my sorc. But now? It just seems so utterly pointless. I mean why should you even bother with sorc this next month knowing that you'll lose pretty much half of what made your class attractive in February.
As someone playing with curse + Master Ice staff, I just want to cry.
just lol
Well the curse functionality and cleanse is problematic in regards to pvp don´t you agree somewhat? Every dot does atleast partial dmg against templars before being cleansed.
Curse is effectively of zero use against a templar that isn´t really really really slow.<Noricum>
I live. I die. I live again.
Derra - DC - Sorc - AvA 50
Derrah - EP - Sorc - AvA 500 -
Dymence✭✭✭✭✭
✭
Destro changes don't have anything to do with curse, or even sorc, for that matter. Yeah, pet buffs - a pet build doesn't even run velocious. So you get a big fat "0" for illustrating why the sorc class gets velocious nerfed.covenant_merchant wrote: »covenant_merchant wrote: »Looks bad. I don't see the use.
Nobody does. Even in PVE, a 3.5 second curse was fine. And dumb dds that can't keep up with the rotation weren't using it anyways. It doesn't make things more "simple" for the sorc rotation neither in PVP or PVE.
And you won't even be able to keep a 100% uptime on curse BECAUSE PEOPLE WILL CLEANSE IT. 6 seconds is way too long, and another "echoing" bulls. 6 seconds later is unnecessary when you can just recast the *** skill.
I actually no-lifed this game since the Trueflame reset, rolling for emp and all. I seriously played almost 20 hours per day because I could and because I freaking love my sorc. But now? It just seems so utterly pointless. I mean why should you even bother with sorc this next month knowing that you'll lose pretty much half of what made your class attractive in February.
As someone playing with curse + Master Ice staff, I just want to cry.
just lol
Hey I know it's just a game and all. But still, having invested a *** ton of time in my magicka sorc, which is pretty much the only thing I'm good at, and playing with an Ice staff, those changes are unexpected and unwanted.
They promised stamina balance. Not further magicka sorc nerfs.
I know right, why should you even bother with a class that got flat out buffed across the board on single target and AOE through new destro passives, force pulse non reflect and pet buffs, when your curse now pops 2.5 seconds later? Bloody murder I tell you.
I wasn't illustrating why velocious curse got 'nerfed'. I was simply pointing out that as a class, we win out in the bigger picture. All the positive changes aren't going to be dragged down just because curse blows up 2.5 seconds later. The sorc outcry over what a massive 'nerf' this is supposed to be, is frankly quite ridiculous, especially when you look at what other classes had to take in (templars).covenant_merchant wrote: »Looks bad. I don't see the use.
Nobody does. Even in PVE, a 3.5 second curse was fine. And dumb dds that can't keep up with the rotation weren't using it anyways. It doesn't make things more "simple" for the sorc rotation neither in PVP or PVE.
And you won't even be able to keep a 100% uptime on curse BECAUSE PEOPLE WILL CLEANSE IT. 6 seconds is way too long, and another "echoing" bulls. 6 seconds later is unnecessary when you can just recast the *** skill.
I actually no-lifed this game since the Trueflame reset, rolling for emp and all. I seriously played almost 20 hours per day because I could and because I freaking love my sorc. But now? It just seems so utterly pointless. I mean why should you even bother with sorc this next month knowing that you'll lose pretty much half of what made your class attractive in February.
As someone playing with curse + Master Ice staff, I just want to cry.
just lol
Well the curse functionality and cleanse is problematic in regards to pvp don´t you agree somewhat? Every dot does atleast partial dmg against templars before being cleansed.
Curse is effectively of zero use against a templar that isn´t really really really slow.
Sure I agree, it's problematic. The best way to fix the problem is that, as others have suggested, the curse should deal partial damage when cleansed. However, there have been many questionable changes over the years that never got fixed in the way they needed, so I'm not really holding hopes here. All I'm saying is, that this change is a far cry from ruining sorcs entirely. Which is what people are making it out to be.
If this change really ruins your sorc, the problem lies with you(plural you, not you specifically) more than anything else.0 -
riVALry9✭✭✭NoI don't know what I can say that hasn't already been said. This change needs to be reverted, or at the very least, altered. First impressions make this new skill sound like it will be essentially useless in open world PvP. Templars will be immune to it and any non-Templar should be able to heal or otherwise mitigate against it quite easily. The burst is simply not there without curse and what is a Sorc without timed burst? I've already said it once, if they want to dampen our burst and force us into a more sustain-focused class then the sorcerer skill lines need a complete overhaul. In the current state of PvP, a Sorc simply cannot out sustain these other builds. At best, we are looking at one or two Sorc builds that can compete and really, what is the benefit of limiting the class in that way when it was far from being OP before?
I truly hope the devs reconsider this. It will be a sad day for Sorcs in Cyrodiil if they don't...that being said, I'm not going to give up on my DW Sorcster until I've exhausted every other avenue. What can we do to adapt to this?Edited by riVALry9 on January 5, 2017 11:06AM2 -
ku5h✭✭✭✭✭
✭NoPls ZoS liste to us this one time, pls..... Dont change Curse, or very scarse population of magSorcs in Cyro will go tottaly extinct.
0 -
PF1901✭✭✭
It will not ruin sorcs but it tends to ruin certain play styles. Fact.
Destro changes don't have anything to do with curse, or even sorc, for that matter. Yeah, pet buffs - a pet build doesn't even run velocious. So you get a big fat "0" for illustrating why the sorc class gets velocious nerfed.covenant_merchant wrote: »covenant_merchant wrote: »Looks bad. I don't see the use.
Nobody does. Even in PVE, a 3.5 second curse was fine. And dumb dds that can't keep up with the rotation weren't using it anyways. It doesn't make things more "simple" for the sorc rotation neither in PVP or PVE.
And you won't even be able to keep a 100% uptime on curse BECAUSE PEOPLE WILL CLEANSE IT. 6 seconds is way too long, and another "echoing" bulls. 6 seconds later is unnecessary when you can just recast the *** skill.
I actually no-lifed this game since the Trueflame reset, rolling for emp and all. I seriously played almost 20 hours per day because I could and because I freaking love my sorc. But now? It just seems so utterly pointless. I mean why should you even bother with sorc this next month knowing that you'll lose pretty much half of what made your class attractive in February.
As someone playing with curse + Master Ice staff, I just want to cry.
just lol
Hey I know it's just a game and all. But still, having invested a *** ton of time in my magicka sorc, which is pretty much the only thing I'm good at, and playing with an Ice staff, those changes are unexpected and unwanted.
They promised stamina balance. Not further magicka sorc nerfs.
I know right, why should you even bother with a class that got flat out buffed across the board on single target and AOE through new destro passives, force pulse non reflect and pet buffs, when your curse now pops 2.5 seconds later? Bloody murder I tell you.
I wasn't illustrating why velocious curse got 'nerfed'. I was simply pointing out that as a class, we win out in the bigger picture. All the positive changes aren't going to be dragged down just because curse blows up 2.5 seconds later. The sorc outcry over what a massive 'nerf' this is supposed to be, is frankly quite ridiculous, especially when you look at what other classes had to take in (templars).covenant_merchant wrote: »Looks bad. I don't see the use.
Nobody does. Even in PVE, a 3.5 second curse was fine. And dumb dds that can't keep up with the rotation weren't using it anyways. It doesn't make things more "simple" for the sorc rotation neither in PVP or PVE.
And you won't even be able to keep a 100% uptime on curse BECAUSE PEOPLE WILL CLEANSE IT. 6 seconds is way too long, and another "echoing" bulls. 6 seconds later is unnecessary when you can just recast the *** skill.
I actually no-lifed this game since the Trueflame reset, rolling for emp and all. I seriously played almost 20 hours per day because I could and because I freaking love my sorc. But now? It just seems so utterly pointless. I mean why should you even bother with sorc this next month knowing that you'll lose pretty much half of what made your class attractive in February.
As someone playing with curse + Master Ice staff, I just want to cry.
just lol
Well the curse functionality and cleanse is problematic in regards to pvp don´t you agree somewhat? Every dot does atleast partial dmg against templars before being cleansed.
Curse is effectively of zero use against a templar that isn´t really really really slow.
Sure I agree, it's problematic. The best way to fix the problem is that, as others have suggested, the curse should deal partial damage when cleansed. However, there have been many questionable changes over the years that never got fixed in the way they needed, so I'm not really holding hopes here. All I'm saying is, that this change is a far cry from ruining sorcs entirely. Which is what people are making it out to be.
If this change really ruins your sorc, the problem lies with you(plural you, not you specifically) more than anything else.
The problem with this change does not lie with me but more with the fact that one, as a sorc seems to be getting pushed in a certain direction of play style(s) by, yours truly ZOS.
I for one do not have any intention to adapt by using skills that are going to be buffed now (quote "flat out buffed across the board" ) but I specifically never wanted to run with in the first place (aka destro staff / pets).
Edit: from a PvP point of view exclusively. Not involved in PvE.
Edited by PF1901 on January 5, 2017 12:17PM0 -
Dymence✭✭✭✭✭
✭
It will not ruin sorcs but it tends to ruin certain play styles. Fact.
Destro changes don't have anything to do with curse, or even sorc, for that matter. Yeah, pet buffs - a pet build doesn't even run velocious. So you get a big fat "0" for illustrating why the sorc class gets velocious nerfed.covenant_merchant wrote: »covenant_merchant wrote: »Looks bad. I don't see the use.
Nobody does. Even in PVE, a 3.5 second curse was fine. And dumb dds that can't keep up with the rotation weren't using it anyways. It doesn't make things more "simple" for the sorc rotation neither in PVP or PVE.
And you won't even be able to keep a 100% uptime on curse BECAUSE PEOPLE WILL CLEANSE IT. 6 seconds is way too long, and another "echoing" bulls. 6 seconds later is unnecessary when you can just recast the *** skill.
I actually no-lifed this game since the Trueflame reset, rolling for emp and all. I seriously played almost 20 hours per day because I could and because I freaking love my sorc. But now? It just seems so utterly pointless. I mean why should you even bother with sorc this next month knowing that you'll lose pretty much half of what made your class attractive in February.
As someone playing with curse + Master Ice staff, I just want to cry.
just lol
Hey I know it's just a game and all. But still, having invested a *** ton of time in my magicka sorc, which is pretty much the only thing I'm good at, and playing with an Ice staff, those changes are unexpected and unwanted.
They promised stamina balance. Not further magicka sorc nerfs.
I know right, why should you even bother with a class that got flat out buffed across the board on single target and AOE through new destro passives, force pulse non reflect and pet buffs, when your curse now pops 2.5 seconds later? Bloody murder I tell you.
I wasn't illustrating why velocious curse got 'nerfed'. I was simply pointing out that as a class, we win out in the bigger picture. All the positive changes aren't going to be dragged down just because curse blows up 2.5 seconds later. The sorc outcry over what a massive 'nerf' this is supposed to be, is frankly quite ridiculous, especially when you look at what other classes had to take in (templars).covenant_merchant wrote: »Looks bad. I don't see the use.
Nobody does. Even in PVE, a 3.5 second curse was fine. And dumb dds that can't keep up with the rotation weren't using it anyways. It doesn't make things more "simple" for the sorc rotation neither in PVP or PVE.
And you won't even be able to keep a 100% uptime on curse BECAUSE PEOPLE WILL CLEANSE IT. 6 seconds is way too long, and another "echoing" bulls. 6 seconds later is unnecessary when you can just recast the *** skill.
I actually no-lifed this game since the Trueflame reset, rolling for emp and all. I seriously played almost 20 hours per day because I could and because I freaking love my sorc. But now? It just seems so utterly pointless. I mean why should you even bother with sorc this next month knowing that you'll lose pretty much half of what made your class attractive in February.
As someone playing with curse + Master Ice staff, I just want to cry.
just lol
Well the curse functionality and cleanse is problematic in regards to pvp don´t you agree somewhat? Every dot does atleast partial dmg against templars before being cleansed.
Curse is effectively of zero use against a templar that isn´t really really really slow.
Sure I agree, it's problematic. The best way to fix the problem is that, as others have suggested, the curse should deal partial damage when cleansed. However, there have been many questionable changes over the years that never got fixed in the way they needed, so I'm not really holding hopes here. All I'm saying is, that this change is a far cry from ruining sorcs entirely. Which is what people are making it out to be.
If this change really ruins your sorc, the problem lies with you(plural you, not you specifically) more than anything else.
The problem with this change does not lie with me but more with the fact that one, as a sorc seems to be getting pushed in a certain direction of play style(s) by, yours truly ZOS.
I for one do not have any intention to adapt by using skills that are going to be buffed now (quote "flat out buffed across the board" ) but I specifically never wanted to run with in the first place (aka destro staff / pets).
Edit: from a PvP point of view exclusively. Not involved in PvE.
I'm not gonna run with pets either for cyrodiil, I might play around with them for duels now though. But I never really liked the concept of pets. I've always been running destro though, so this is a win for me. And as far as curse goes, I don't see it changing much for me at all. I don't really care one way or another if we get this new curse or keep the old velocious.
I just get triggered by all these posts with people crying: "zos revert it or sorcs will go extinct" "zos you ruined sorcs now" "no one will want to play sorc anymore" "sorcs defining feature is ruined and will be completely useless now"
Just sounds like a toddlers outcry to me. Completely irrational nonsense.Edited by Dymence on January 5, 2017 12:39PM0 -
Ankael07✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Eric Wrobel just keeps wrecking the playstyle of the sorcerers, he didn't like their survivability so forced us with shields then nerfed them, finally he destroys their rotation...
There is just not getting over it he literally hates the class.
My sorcerer is now an enlightenment mule.
Now to wait for him to release a statement explaining how he's right and the entire community is wrong.If you want me to reply to your comment type @Ankael07 in it.2 -
Minalan✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭No
It will not ruin sorcs but it tends to ruin certain play styles. Fact.
Destro changes don't have anything to do with curse, or even sorc, for that matter. Yeah, pet buffs - a pet build doesn't even run velocious. So you get a big fat "0" for illustrating why the sorc class gets velocious nerfed.covenant_merchant wrote: »covenant_merchant wrote: »Looks bad. I don't see the use.
Nobody does. Even in PVE, a 3.5 second curse was fine. And dumb dds that can't keep up with the rotation weren't using it anyways. It doesn't make things more "simple" for the sorc rotation neither in PVP or PVE.
And you won't even be able to keep a 100% uptime on curse BECAUSE PEOPLE WILL CLEANSE IT. 6 seconds is way too long, and another "echoing" bulls. 6 seconds later is unnecessary when you can just recast the *** skill.
I actually no-lifed this game since the Trueflame reset, rolling for emp and all. I seriously played almost 20 hours per day because I could and because I freaking love my sorc. But now? It just seems so utterly pointless. I mean why should you even bother with sorc this next month knowing that you'll lose pretty much half of what made your class attractive in February.
As someone playing with curse + Master Ice staff, I just want to cry.
just lol
Hey I know it's just a game and all. But still, having invested a *** ton of time in my magicka sorc, which is pretty much the only thing I'm good at, and playing with an Ice staff, those changes are unexpected and unwanted.
They promised stamina balance. Not further magicka sorc nerfs.
I know right, why should you even bother with a class that got flat out buffed across the board on single target and AOE through new destro passives, force pulse non reflect and pet buffs, when your curse now pops 2.5 seconds later? Bloody murder I tell you.
I wasn't illustrating why velocious curse got 'nerfed'. I was simply pointing out that as a class, we win out in the bigger picture. All the positive changes aren't going to be dragged down just because curse blows up 2.5 seconds later. The sorc outcry over what a massive 'nerf' this is supposed to be, is frankly quite ridiculous, especially when you look at what other classes had to take in (templars).covenant_merchant wrote: »Looks bad. I don't see the use.
Nobody does. Even in PVE, a 3.5 second curse was fine. And dumb dds that can't keep up with the rotation weren't using it anyways. It doesn't make things more "simple" for the sorc rotation neither in PVP or PVE.
And you won't even be able to keep a 100% uptime on curse BECAUSE PEOPLE WILL CLEANSE IT. 6 seconds is way too long, and another "echoing" bulls. 6 seconds later is unnecessary when you can just recast the *** skill.
I actually no-lifed this game since the Trueflame reset, rolling for emp and all. I seriously played almost 20 hours per day because I could and because I freaking love my sorc. But now? It just seems so utterly pointless. I mean why should you even bother with sorc this next month knowing that you'll lose pretty much half of what made your class attractive in February.
As someone playing with curse + Master Ice staff, I just want to cry.
just lol
Well the curse functionality and cleanse is problematic in regards to pvp don´t you agree somewhat? Every dot does atleast partial dmg against templars before being cleansed.
Curse is effectively of zero use against a templar that isn´t really really really slow.
Sure I agree, it's problematic. The best way to fix the problem is that, as others have suggested, the curse should deal partial damage when cleansed. However, there have been many questionable changes over the years that never got fixed in the way they needed, so I'm not really holding hopes here. All I'm saying is, that this change is a far cry from ruining sorcs entirely. Which is what people are making it out to be.
If this change really ruins your sorc, the problem lies with you(plural you, not you specifically) more than anything else.
The problem with this change does not lie with me but more with the fact that one, as a sorc seems to be getting pushed in a certain direction of play style(s) by, yours truly ZOS.
I for one do not have any intention to adapt by using skills that are going to be buffed now (quote "flat out buffed across the board" ) but I specifically never wanted to run with in the first place (aka destro staff / pets).
Edit: from a PvP point of view exclusively. Not involved in PvE.
I'm not gonna run with pets either for cyrodiil, I might play around with them for duels now though. But I never really liked the concept of pets. I've always been running destro though, so this is a win for me. And as far as curse goes, I don't see it changing much for me at all. I don't really care one way or another if we get this new curse or keep the old velocious.
I just get triggered by all these posts with people crying: "zos revert it or sorcs will go extinct" "zos you ruined sorcs now" "no one will want to play sorc anymore" "sorcs defining feature is ruined and will be completely useless now"
Just sounds like a toddlers outcry to me. Completely irrational nonsense.
Have you played versus good stamina players lately? Your force pulse and 8% damage isnt going to save you, and you won't last 12 seconds for the echo. The 3.5 timing helps you gain some momentum in a fight and actually win.
This change is asinine, and it completely wrecks dual wield builds.
I don't care about PVE DPS if the every gap closing stamina player kills me. Take those parses and shove them where the sun doesnt shine.7 -
STEVIL✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Yes
It will not ruin sorcs but it tends to ruin certain play styles. Fact.
Destro changes don't have anything to do with curse, or even sorc, for that matter. Yeah, pet buffs - a pet build doesn't even run velocious. So you get a big fat "0" for illustrating why the sorc class gets velocious nerfed.covenant_merchant wrote: »covenant_merchant wrote: »Looks bad. I don't see the use.
Nobody does. Even in PVE, a 3.5 second curse was fine. And dumb dds that can't keep up with the rotation weren't using it anyways. It doesn't make things more "simple" for the sorc rotation neither in PVP or PVE.
And you won't even be able to keep a 100% uptime on curse BECAUSE PEOPLE WILL CLEANSE IT. 6 seconds is way too long, and another "echoing" bulls. 6 seconds later is unnecessary when you can just recast the *** skill.
I actually no-lifed this game since the Trueflame reset, rolling for emp and all. I seriously played almost 20 hours per day because I could and because I freaking love my sorc. But now? It just seems so utterly pointless. I mean why should you even bother with sorc this next month knowing that you'll lose pretty much half of what made your class attractive in February.
As someone playing with curse + Master Ice staff, I just want to cry.
just lol
Hey I know it's just a game and all. But still, having invested a *** ton of time in my magicka sorc, which is pretty much the only thing I'm good at, and playing with an Ice staff, those changes are unexpected and unwanted.
They promised stamina balance. Not further magicka sorc nerfs.
I know right, why should you even bother with a class that got flat out buffed across the board on single target and AOE through new destro passives, force pulse non reflect and pet buffs, when your curse now pops 2.5 seconds later? Bloody murder I tell you.
I wasn't illustrating why velocious curse got 'nerfed'. I was simply pointing out that as a class, we win out in the bigger picture. All the positive changes aren't going to be dragged down just because curse blows up 2.5 seconds later. The sorc outcry over what a massive 'nerf' this is supposed to be, is frankly quite ridiculous, especially when you look at what other classes had to take in (templars).covenant_merchant wrote: »Looks bad. I don't see the use.
Nobody does. Even in PVE, a 3.5 second curse was fine. And dumb dds that can't keep up with the rotation weren't using it anyways. It doesn't make things more "simple" for the sorc rotation neither in PVP or PVE.
And you won't even be able to keep a 100% uptime on curse BECAUSE PEOPLE WILL CLEANSE IT. 6 seconds is way too long, and another "echoing" bulls. 6 seconds later is unnecessary when you can just recast the *** skill.
I actually no-lifed this game since the Trueflame reset, rolling for emp and all. I seriously played almost 20 hours per day because I could and because I freaking love my sorc. But now? It just seems so utterly pointless. I mean why should you even bother with sorc this next month knowing that you'll lose pretty much half of what made your class attractive in February.
As someone playing with curse + Master Ice staff, I just want to cry.
just lol
Well the curse functionality and cleanse is problematic in regards to pvp don´t you agree somewhat? Every dot does atleast partial dmg against templars before being cleansed.
Curse is effectively of zero use against a templar that isn´t really really really slow.
Sure I agree, it's problematic. The best way to fix the problem is that, as others have suggested, the curse should deal partial damage when cleansed. However, there have been many questionable changes over the years that never got fixed in the way they needed, so I'm not really holding hopes here. All I'm saying is, that this change is a far cry from ruining sorcs entirely. Which is what people are making it out to be.
If this change really ruins your sorc, the problem lies with you(plural you, not you specifically) more than anything else.
The problem with this change does not lie with me but more with the fact that one, as a sorc seems to be getting pushed in a certain direction of play style(s) by, yours truly ZOS.
I for one do not have any intention to adapt by using skills that are going to be buffed now (quote "flat out buffed across the board" ) but I specifically never wanted to run with in the first place (aka destro staff / pets).
Edit: from a PvP point of view exclusively. Not involved in PvE.
ESo is a living MMo which means from time to time things change and from time to time things change significantly and every time that happens - every single time - some builds, some "ways i get X done" for some players (i wouldn't call a 2,5s shift to one skill a "playstyle" defining thing so i wont say "playstyle" here) is put into the situation where they can choose whether to recognize to the changes, analyze the differences in the new world order and change how they operate or chose how they operate based on that analysis and performance in some ways or not.
its likely - if objections to this change are rooted in or are focusing on the effectiveness - that a player chose to build for and use the 3.5s velocicurse that that prior choice was made based on effectiveness and not some ephemeral sidebar. So, that means at some earlier point in time the did just what we are describing now - they chose to recognize to the changes, analyze the differences in the new world order and change how they operate or chose how they operate based on that analysis and performance in some ways or not and at that time they decided velocicurse was the way to go.
So, after this change they are back in that same place - do i adapt ot do i refuse to adapt and just do what i want?
Nothing different now and then but the calendar, maybe a few more gray hairs or belt sizes, but there is no diff between the decisions now and the decisions then - same song different day. Build/play for effectiveness/performance or not.
Since i expect to see a living MMO change over time and i expect every patch to see "how i do things" change, doesn't bother me when it hits.
That said, to my way of thinking they still need a better replacement for velocicurse than the 12s uggh they are providing.
WHAT WAS WRONG WITH VELOCICURSE? IMO...
It and its pet-based counter-choice were simply put a more damage producing morph and between the two it was pretty clear that VC was the better producer in most cases if not all. This isn't a pets vs no pets religion issue - even with pets VC was mostly better.
But imo the 12s change is making it into a pretty worthless morph. its not IMo viable to have a 6s then 6s damage output - too few cases where that makes any sense.
So IMO moving it to 6s and then giving it an included DOT during the build up to 6s, or giving it a significant debuff during its 6s, etc will be better options to pursue.
IMO a good balance point between the two (if looking at simple damage adds) would be if one pet builds saw the two morphs as basically equally productive, two pet builds saw the pet morph better and no pet builds even with the atorm atro saw the non-pet morph as better. Wedont have that now in live game, we wont have it later if the pts version goes in as planned so... imo... it still needs work.
Proudly skooma free while talks-when-drunk is in mandatory public housing.
YFMV Your Fun May Vary.
First Law of Nerf-o-Dynamics
"The good way I used to get good kills *with good skill* was good but the way others kill me now is bad."0 -
Thornen✭✭✭✭✭NoEric Wrobel just keeps wrecking the playstyle of the sorcerers, he didn't like their survivability so forced us with shields then nerfed them, finally he destroys their rotation...
There is just not getting over it he literally hates the class.
My sorcerer is now an enlightenment mule.
But Wrobel mained a sorc?
As far as I know the few devs that do play use STAMINA.0 -
Father_X_Zombie✭✭✭✭NoFather_X_Zombie wrote: »Sorcs are supposed to deal high timed burst damage, this is what defines our class just like stealth attacks define nightblades and etc.
So taking away our timed burst damage is the right way to go? That's like adding a cast time to surprise attack
Wrobel......if you hate mag Sorcs just make all of our abilities cost stam and be done with it.
These patch notes are really dissapointing
Really? Really?
i thought i had seen thread upon thread and post upon post describing streak as the "clas defining" skill back in the day when streak was being changed.
Then, i am really sure i saw that shields were class defining too when they were getting changes made.
Now it curse and its role in a very specific 3s timer combined boom burst (as opposed to the same burst at the 6s mark) that is now the new definition of "class defining" for sorcs, right?
Do i have that down?
A while back i determined from observation that "class defining" just means "whatever you are talking about changing to anything weaker or that to something i dont like" and its good to see that the sorc class is so versatile that every time a change is made to a "class defining" aspect it just miraculously develops a new class definition.
A class that versatile and robust = obviously OP.
Templar: tanky with heavy + awesome healing + good damage
Dk: tanky + good heals + ok damage
Nightblade: extremely high burst + good heals (cloak + vigor or ward) + tricky to kill thanks to their good escape
You call Sorcs OP? Because we have high burst and mobility? I wouldn't say we have high mobility, have you tried streak? And were not tanky because a well timed burst will kill the best sorc in the game.
Our class definition keeps getting nerfed, so its hard to say what it actually is.Edited by Father_X_Zombie on January 5, 2017 5:38PMGT: AK x Zombie
Marcurio Avidius - Breton Sorcerer - The Flawless Conquerer - General
Raven Avidius - Imperial Nightblade - Stormproof
Cicero Avidius - Imperial Templar - First Sergeant
Audens Avidius - Breton Templar - Stormproof
Jimi Hendrix - Redguard Dragonknight - Stormproof
Leliana Artaine - Breton Nightblade - Stormproof
Brutus Decinus - Imperial Sorcerer - Stormproof AD
Wait aren't you DC - Dark elf Nightblade EP
Achilleus Infernium - Breton Dragonknight
Claudia Aurella - Imperial Warden
DC NA XB1
RIP XB1 NA Chillrend 2015-2017
Home to emp farmers and roleplayers
Put out of its misery by Brian Wheeler2 -
Twohothardware✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭NoDymence wrote:Completely irrational nonsense.
An accurate description of the balance changes being made in this update.
3 -
Calboy✭✭✭✭✭NoI voted no but have since changed my mind after thinking it stacked after the first pulse.Edited by Calboy on January 5, 2017 5:48PM0 -
gard✭✭✭✭✭Has the idea that two 6 second VC might be applied simultaneously (a 2nd vc applied after the 1st explosion of an initial vc) been put to rest? It does not appear to work like this.
It would be interesting to know why the change was made.
Newer sorc player here.. how long do I have to cast a crystal frag after it procs? If my VC procs a frag, do I have time to cast it so that it lands with vc at 6s? At work, can't test till I get home.
0 -
Minalan✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭NoHas the idea that two 6 second VC might be applied simultaneously (a 2nd vc applied after the 1st explosion of an initial vc) been put to rest? It does not appear to work like this.
It would be interesting to know why the change was made.
Newer sorc player here.. how long do I have to cast a crystal frag after it procs? If my VC procs a frag, do I have time to cast it so that it lands with vc at 6s? At work, can't test till I get home.
If they allowed a second haunting curse on top of the first at six seconds, I would be the first person to jump for joy at the burst buff. But it's not.0 -
Izaki✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭NoEric Wrobel just keeps wrecking the playstyle of the sorcerers, he didn't like their survivability so forced us with shields then nerfed them, finally he destroys their rotation...
There is just not getting over it he literally hates the class.
My sorcerer is now an enlightenment mule.
But Wrobel mained a sorc?
As far as I know the few devs that do play use STAMINA.
If they do play stamina then how do you explain the drastic DPS decrease on every stamina build? They can't even keep up with magicka on single target. RIP stamina builds in trials. So yeah, i highly doubt that the reason for the Curse nerf is that the devs all play stamina. Stop saying such nonesense plz.@ Izaki #PCEU
#FrenchKiss #GoneFor2YearsAndMyGuildDoesn'tRaidAnymore
#MoreDPSthanYou
#Stamblade0 -
Dymence✭✭✭✭✭
✭
It will not ruin sorcs but it tends to ruin certain play styles. Fact.
Destro changes don't have anything to do with curse, or even sorc, for that matter. Yeah, pet buffs - a pet build doesn't even run velocious. So you get a big fat "0" for illustrating why the sorc class gets velocious nerfed.covenant_merchant wrote: »covenant_merchant wrote: »Looks bad. I don't see the use.
Nobody does. Even in PVE, a 3.5 second curse was fine. And dumb dds that can't keep up with the rotation weren't using it anyways. It doesn't make things more "simple" for the sorc rotation neither in PVP or PVE.
And you won't even be able to keep a 100% uptime on curse BECAUSE PEOPLE WILL CLEANSE IT. 6 seconds is way too long, and another "echoing" bulls. 6 seconds later is unnecessary when you can just recast the *** skill.
I actually no-lifed this game since the Trueflame reset, rolling for emp and all. I seriously played almost 20 hours per day because I could and because I freaking love my sorc. But now? It just seems so utterly pointless. I mean why should you even bother with sorc this next month knowing that you'll lose pretty much half of what made your class attractive in February.
As someone playing with curse + Master Ice staff, I just want to cry.
just lol
Hey I know it's just a game and all. But still, having invested a *** ton of time in my magicka sorc, which is pretty much the only thing I'm good at, and playing with an Ice staff, those changes are unexpected and unwanted.
They promised stamina balance. Not further magicka sorc nerfs.
I know right, why should you even bother with a class that got flat out buffed across the board on single target and AOE through new destro passives, force pulse non reflect and pet buffs, when your curse now pops 2.5 seconds later? Bloody murder I tell you.
I wasn't illustrating why velocious curse got 'nerfed'. I was simply pointing out that as a class, we win out in the bigger picture. All the positive changes aren't going to be dragged down just because curse blows up 2.5 seconds later. The sorc outcry over what a massive 'nerf' this is supposed to be, is frankly quite ridiculous, especially when you look at what other classes had to take in (templars).covenant_merchant wrote: »Looks bad. I don't see the use.
Nobody does. Even in PVE, a 3.5 second curse was fine. And dumb dds that can't keep up with the rotation weren't using it anyways. It doesn't make things more "simple" for the sorc rotation neither in PVP or PVE.
And you won't even be able to keep a 100% uptime on curse BECAUSE PEOPLE WILL CLEANSE IT. 6 seconds is way too long, and another "echoing" bulls. 6 seconds later is unnecessary when you can just recast the *** skill.
I actually no-lifed this game since the Trueflame reset, rolling for emp and all. I seriously played almost 20 hours per day because I could and because I freaking love my sorc. But now? It just seems so utterly pointless. I mean why should you even bother with sorc this next month knowing that you'll lose pretty much half of what made your class attractive in February.
As someone playing with curse + Master Ice staff, I just want to cry.
just lol
Well the curse functionality and cleanse is problematic in regards to pvp don´t you agree somewhat? Every dot does atleast partial dmg against templars before being cleansed.
Curse is effectively of zero use against a templar that isn´t really really really slow.
Sure I agree, it's problematic. The best way to fix the problem is that, as others have suggested, the curse should deal partial damage when cleansed. However, there have been many questionable changes over the years that never got fixed in the way they needed, so I'm not really holding hopes here. All I'm saying is, that this change is a far cry from ruining sorcs entirely. Which is what people are making it out to be.
If this change really ruins your sorc, the problem lies with you(plural you, not you specifically) more than anything else.
The problem with this change does not lie with me but more with the fact that one, as a sorc seems to be getting pushed in a certain direction of play style(s) by, yours truly ZOS.
I for one do not have any intention to adapt by using skills that are going to be buffed now (quote "flat out buffed across the board" ) but I specifically never wanted to run with in the first place (aka destro staff / pets).
Edit: from a PvP point of view exclusively. Not involved in PvE.
I'm not gonna run with pets either for cyrodiil, I might play around with them for duels now though. But I never really liked the concept of pets. I've always been running destro though, so this is a win for me. And as far as curse goes, I don't see it changing much for me at all. I don't really care one way or another if we get this new curse or keep the old velocious.
I just get triggered by all these posts with people crying: "zos revert it or sorcs will go extinct" "zos you ruined sorcs now" "no one will want to play sorc anymore" "sorcs defining feature is ruined and will be completely useless now"
Just sounds like a toddlers outcry to me. Completely irrational nonsense.
Have you played versus good stamina players lately? Your force pulse and 8% damage isnt going to save you, and you won't last 12 seconds for the echo. The 3.5 timing helps you gain some momentum in a fight and actually win.
This change is asinine, and it completely wrecks dual wield builds.
I don't care about PVE DPS if the every gap closing stamina player kills me. Take those parses and shove them where the sun doesnt shine.
I'm not even talking about PVE DPS. I quit PVE for a while already now.
You really wanna talk about gap closing stamina players? I raise you with mines.
Besides, dual wield sorc hasn't really been functional since the undaunted webs change.Edited by Dymence on January 5, 2017 5:58PM0 -
covenant_merchant✭✭✭✭✭
✭NoIzakiBrotheSs wrote: »Eric Wrobel just keeps wrecking the playstyle of the sorcerers, he didn't like their survivability so forced us with shields then nerfed them, finally he destroys their rotation...
There is just not getting over it he literally hates the class.
My sorcerer is now an enlightenment mule.
But Wrobel mained a sorc?
As far as I know the few devs that do play use STAMINA.
If they do play stamina then how do you explain the drastic DPS decrease on every stamina build? They can't even keep up with magicka on single target.
Do we play the same game? Oo
If you personally have trouble with your stamina build, I'd suggest watching Alcast's videos, but I can assure you that a good stamina build in trials pulls more than a magicka one usually. The only reason there aren't that many of them is the lack of shields for bosses such as vMOL Rakkhat. Though if your group is experienced, you can get through it with many stam builds.
It will not ruin sorcs but it tends to ruin certain play styles. Fact.
Destro changes don't have anything to do with curse, or even sorc, for that matter. Yeah, pet buffs - a pet build doesn't even run velocious. So you get a big fat "0" for illustrating why the sorc class gets velocious nerfed.covenant_merchant wrote: »covenant_merchant wrote: »Looks bad. I don't see the use.
Nobody does. Even in PVE, a 3.5 second curse was fine. And dumb dds that can't keep up with the rotation weren't using it anyways. It doesn't make things more "simple" for the sorc rotation neither in PVP or PVE.
And you won't even be able to keep a 100% uptime on curse BECAUSE PEOPLE WILL CLEANSE IT. 6 seconds is way too long, and another "echoing" bulls. 6 seconds later is unnecessary when you can just recast the *** skill.
I actually no-lifed this game since the Trueflame reset, rolling for emp and all. I seriously played almost 20 hours per day because I could and because I freaking love my sorc. But now? It just seems so utterly pointless. I mean why should you even bother with sorc this next month knowing that you'll lose pretty much half of what made your class attractive in February.
As someone playing with curse + Master Ice staff, I just want to cry.
just lol
Hey I know it's just a game and all. But still, having invested a *** ton of time in my magicka sorc, which is pretty much the only thing I'm good at, and playing with an Ice staff, those changes are unexpected and unwanted.
They promised stamina balance. Not further magicka sorc nerfs.
I know right, why should you even bother with a class that got flat out buffed across the board on single target and AOE through new destro passives, force pulse non reflect and pet buffs, when your curse now pops 2.5 seconds later? Bloody murder I tell you.
I wasn't illustrating why velocious curse got 'nerfed'. I was simply pointing out that as a class, we win out in the bigger picture. All the positive changes aren't going to be dragged down just because curse blows up 2.5 seconds later. The sorc outcry over what a massive 'nerf' this is supposed to be, is frankly quite ridiculous, especially when you look at what other classes had to take in (templars).covenant_merchant wrote: »Looks bad. I don't see the use.
Nobody does. Even in PVE, a 3.5 second curse was fine. And dumb dds that can't keep up with the rotation weren't using it anyways. It doesn't make things more "simple" for the sorc rotation neither in PVP or PVE.
And you won't even be able to keep a 100% uptime on curse BECAUSE PEOPLE WILL CLEANSE IT. 6 seconds is way too long, and another "echoing" bulls. 6 seconds later is unnecessary when you can just recast the *** skill.
I actually no-lifed this game since the Trueflame reset, rolling for emp and all. I seriously played almost 20 hours per day because I could and because I freaking love my sorc. But now? It just seems so utterly pointless. I mean why should you even bother with sorc this next month knowing that you'll lose pretty much half of what made your class attractive in February.
As someone playing with curse + Master Ice staff, I just want to cry.
just lol
Well the curse functionality and cleanse is problematic in regards to pvp don´t you agree somewhat? Every dot does atleast partial dmg against templars before being cleansed.
Curse is effectively of zero use against a templar that isn´t really really really slow.
Sure I agree, it's problematic. The best way to fix the problem is that, as others have suggested, the curse should deal partial damage when cleansed. However, there have been many questionable changes over the years that never got fixed in the way they needed, so I'm not really holding hopes here. All I'm saying is, that this change is a far cry from ruining sorcs entirely. Which is what people are making it out to be.
If this change really ruins your sorc, the problem lies with you(plural you, not you specifically) more than anything else.
The problem with this change does not lie with me but more with the fact that one, as a sorc seems to be getting pushed in a certain direction of play style(s) by, yours truly ZOS.
I for one do not have any intention to adapt by using skills that are going to be buffed now (quote "flat out buffed across the board" ) but I specifically never wanted to run with in the first place (aka destro staff / pets).
Edit: from a PvP point of view exclusively. Not involved in PvE.
ESo is a living MMo which means from time to time things change and from time to time things change significantly and every time that happens - every single time - some builds, some "ways i get X done" for some players (i wouldn't call a 2,5s shift to one skill a "playstyle" defining thing so i wont say "playstyle" here) is put into the situation where they can choose whether to recognize to the changes, analyze the differences in the new world order and change how they operate or chose how they operate based on that analysis and performance in some ways or not.
its likely - if objections to this change are rooted in or are focusing on the effectiveness - that a player chose to build for and use the 3.5s velocicurse that that prior choice was made based on effectiveness and not some ephemeral sidebar. So, that means at some earlier point in time the did just what we are describing now - they chose to recognize to the changes, analyze the differences in the new world order and change how they operate or chose how they operate based on that analysis and performance in some ways or not and at that time they decided velocicurse was the way to go.
So, after this change they are back in that same place - do i adapt ot do i refuse to adapt and just do what i want?
Nothing different now and then but the calendar, maybe a few more gray hairs or belt sizes, but there is no diff between the decisions now and the decisions then - same song different day. Build/play for effectiveness/performance or not.
Since i expect to see a living MMO change over time and i expect every patch to see "how i do things" change, doesn't bother me when it hits.
That said, to my way of thinking they still need a better replacement for velocicurse than the 12s uggh they are providing.
WHAT WAS WRONG WITH VELOCICURSE? IMO...
It and its pet-based counter-choice were simply put a more damage producing morph and between the two it was pretty clear that VC was the better producer in most cases if not all. This isn't a pets vs no pets religion issue - even with pets VC was mostly better.
But imo the 12s change is making it into a pretty worthless morph. its not IMo viable to have a 6s then 6s damage output - too few cases where that makes any sense.
So IMO moving it to 6s and then giving it an included DOT during the build up to 6s, or giving it a significant debuff during its 6s, etc will be better options to pursue.
IMO a good balance point between the two (if looking at simple damage adds) would be if one pet builds saw the two morphs as basically equally productive, two pet builds saw the pet morph better and no pet builds even with the atorm atro saw the non-pet morph as better. Wedont have that now in live game, we wont have it later if the pts version goes in as planned so... imo... it still needs work.
You talk a lot but all this drivel seems pointless. You're saying that players will have to adapt basically because the devs said so. Well yes, ESO is a "moving" mmo, but that doesn't mean it's always moving in a good direction and that you should blindly accept it as a sheep. Them changing specifically velocious curse is a clear attempt at pushing sorcs towards the pet direction. That's it. They made an awesome morph freaking useless because their stupid pets weren't popular enough. And they will never be, because they don't do damage, or help in any open world situation.
There shouldn't be any talk about the Curse change. It's fine as it is.
Edited by covenant_merchant on January 5, 2017 6:39PM2 -
hedna123b14_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭Nocovenant_merchant wrote: »IzakiBrotheSs wrote: »Eric Wrobel just keeps wrecking the playstyle of the sorcerers, he didn't like their survivability so forced us with shields then nerfed them, finally he destroys their rotation...
There is just not getting over it he literally hates the class.
My sorcerer is now an enlightenment mule.
But Wrobel mained a sorc?
As far as I know the few devs that do play use STAMINA.
If they do play stamina then how do you explain the drastic DPS decrease on every stamina build? They can't even keep up with magicka on single target.
Do we play the same game? Oo
If you personally have trouble with your stamina build, I'd suggest watching Alcast's videos, but I can assure you that a good stamina build in trials pulls more than a magicka one usually. The only reason there aren't that many of them is the lack of shields for bosses such as vMOL Rakkhat. Though if your group is experienced, you can get through it with many stam builds.
Testing a fully buffed dps test on a stamdk on the lightning attro yielded 48k dps on the pts...versus 50k+ for magicka DKs...so while your assertion may be true for live it doesnt seem to be the case for PTS..0 -
covenant_merchant✭✭✭✭✭
✭Nohedna123b14_ESO wrote: »covenant_merchant wrote: »IzakiBrotheSs wrote: »Eric Wrobel just keeps wrecking the playstyle of the sorcerers, he didn't like their survivability so forced us with shields then nerfed them, finally he destroys their rotation...
There is just not getting over it he literally hates the class.
My sorcerer is now an enlightenment mule.
But Wrobel mained a sorc?
As far as I know the few devs that do play use STAMINA.
If they do play stamina then how do you explain the drastic DPS decrease on every stamina build? They can't even keep up with magicka on single target.
Do we play the same game? Oo
If you personally have trouble with your stamina build, I'd suggest watching Alcast's videos, but I can assure you that a good stamina build in trials pulls more than a magicka one usually. The only reason there aren't that many of them is the lack of shields for bosses such as vMOL Rakkhat. Though if your group is experienced, you can get through it with many stam builds.
Testing a fully buffed dps test on a stamdk on the lightning attro yielded 48k dps on the pts...versus 50k+ for magicka DKs...so while your assertion may be true for live it doesnt seem to be the case for PTS..
I was indeed talking about live. I've been on the PTS just long enough to check Velocious Curse and Frost staff on my sorc, got depressed and left to QQ some more. The worst part is, ZOS doesn't even bother to explain why these changes were warranted.0 -
Minalan✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭No
It will not ruin sorcs but it tends to ruin certain play styles. Fact.
Destro changes don't have anything to do with curse, or even sorc, for that matter. Yeah, pet buffs - a pet build doesn't even run velocious. So you get a big fat "0" for illustrating why the sorc class gets velocious nerfed.covenant_merchant wrote: »covenant_merchant wrote: »Looks bad. I don't see the use.
Nobody does. Even in PVE, a 3.5 second curse was fine. And dumb dds that can't keep up with the rotation weren't using it anyways. It doesn't make things more "simple" for the sorc rotation neither in PVP or PVE.
And you won't even be able to keep a 100% uptime on curse BECAUSE PEOPLE WILL CLEANSE IT. 6 seconds is way too long, and another "echoing" bulls. 6 seconds later is unnecessary when you can just recast the *** skill.
I actually no-lifed this game since the Trueflame reset, rolling for emp and all. I seriously played almost 20 hours per day because I could and because I freaking love my sorc. But now? It just seems so utterly pointless. I mean why should you even bother with sorc this next month knowing that you'll lose pretty much half of what made your class attractive in February.
As someone playing with curse + Master Ice staff, I just want to cry.
just lol
Hey I know it's just a game and all. But still, having invested a *** ton of time in my magicka sorc, which is pretty much the only thing I'm good at, and playing with an Ice staff, those changes are unexpected and unwanted.
They promised stamina balance. Not further magicka sorc nerfs.
I know right, why should you even bother with a class that got flat out buffed across the board on single target and AOE through new destro passives, force pulse non reflect and pet buffs, when your curse now pops 2.5 seconds later? Bloody murder I tell you.
I wasn't illustrating why velocious curse got 'nerfed'. I was simply pointing out that as a class, we win out in the bigger picture. All the positive changes aren't going to be dragged down just because curse blows up 2.5 seconds later. The sorc outcry over what a massive 'nerf' this is supposed to be, is frankly quite ridiculous, especially when you look at what other classes had to take in (templars).covenant_merchant wrote: »Looks bad. I don't see the use.
Nobody does. Even in PVE, a 3.5 second curse was fine. And dumb dds that can't keep up with the rotation weren't using it anyways. It doesn't make things more "simple" for the sorc rotation neither in PVP or PVE.
And you won't even be able to keep a 100% uptime on curse BECAUSE PEOPLE WILL CLEANSE IT. 6 seconds is way too long, and another "echoing" bulls. 6 seconds later is unnecessary when you can just recast the *** skill.
I actually no-lifed this game since the Trueflame reset, rolling for emp and all. I seriously played almost 20 hours per day because I could and because I freaking love my sorc. But now? It just seems so utterly pointless. I mean why should you even bother with sorc this next month knowing that you'll lose pretty much half of what made your class attractive in February.
As someone playing with curse + Master Ice staff, I just want to cry.
just lol
Well the curse functionality and cleanse is problematic in regards to pvp don´t you agree somewhat? Every dot does atleast partial dmg against templars before being cleansed.
Curse is effectively of zero use against a templar that isn´t really really really slow.
Sure I agree, it's problematic. The best way to fix the problem is that, as others have suggested, the curse should deal partial damage when cleansed. However, there have been many questionable changes over the years that never got fixed in the way they needed, so I'm not really holding hopes here. All I'm saying is, that this change is a far cry from ruining sorcs entirely. Which is what people are making it out to be.
If this change really ruins your sorc, the problem lies with you(plural you, not you specifically) more than anything else.
The problem with this change does not lie with me but more with the fact that one, as a sorc seems to be getting pushed in a certain direction of play style(s) by, yours truly ZOS.
I for one do not have any intention to adapt by using skills that are going to be buffed now (quote "flat out buffed across the board" ) but I specifically never wanted to run with in the first place (aka destro staff / pets).
Edit: from a PvP point of view exclusively. Not involved in PvE.
I'm not gonna run with pets either for cyrodiil, I might play around with them for duels now though. But I never really liked the concept of pets. I've always been running destro though, so this is a win for me. And as far as curse goes, I don't see it changing much for me at all. I don't really care one way or another if we get this new curse or keep the old velocious.
I just get triggered by all these posts with people crying: "zos revert it or sorcs will go extinct" "zos you ruined sorcs now" "no one will want to play sorc anymore" "sorcs defining feature is ruined and will be completely useless now"
Just sounds like a toddlers outcry to me. Completely irrational nonsense.
Have you played versus good stamina players lately? Your force pulse and 8% damage isnt going to save you, and you won't last 12 seconds for the echo. The 3.5 timing helps you gain some momentum in a fight and actually win.
This change is asinine, and it completely wrecks dual wield builds.
I don't care about PVE DPS if the every gap closing stamina player kills me. Take those parses and shove them where the sun doesnt shine.
I'm not even talking about PVE DPS. I quit PVE for a while already now.
You really wanna talk about gap closing stamina players? I raise you with mines.
Besides, dual wield sorc hasn't really been functional since the undaunted webs change.
With Heavy armor and vigor up, most stam builds just ignore the one mine they hit so that they can land the crit rush, tremor, HA, and dizzy combo on you. Anyone with vampire just goes into mist form and removes all of the mines without taking any significant damage.
Your 3.5 second curse forces them to use some defensive CD's instead of a non stop litany of animation cancelled melee attacks. You can land it on someone in mist form, and time it so that it explodes when they finally come out. You can hit a stealth ganker, and force him out of hiding before he escapes for good. There are SO many reasons to keep a 3.5 second velocious curse, I can't expect someone who doesn't play the class in PVP to understand.
You're right that DW hasn't been the same since trapping webs and inevitable det were taken away from us, but the 1T patch opened up a LOT of effective DW build options. It works now, but it won't after this.
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